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|Zach|
11-12-2012, 01:08 PM
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83679.html


A long-simmering generational battle in the conservative movement is boiling over after last week’s shellacking, with younger operatives and ideologues going public with calls that Republicans break free from a political-media cocoon that has become intellectually suffocating and self-defeating.

GOP officials have chalked up their electoral thumping to everything from the country’s changing demographics to an ill-timed hurricane and failed voter turn-out system, but a cadre of Republicans under 50 believes the party’s problem is even more fundamental.

The party is suffering from Pauline Kaelism.

Kael was The New Yorker movie critic who famously said in the wake of Richard M. Nixon’s 49-state landslide in 1972 that she knew only one person who voted for Nixon.

Now, many young Republicans worry, they are the ones in the hermetically sealed bubble — except it’s not confined to geography but rather a self-selected media universe in which only their own views are reinforced and an alternate reality is reflected.

Hence the initial denial and subsequent shock on the right that the country would not only reelect President Barack Obama — but do so with 332 electoral votes.

“What Republicans did so successfully, starting with critiquing the media and then creating our own outlets, became a bubble onto itself,” said Ross Douthat, the 32-year-old New York Times columnist.

“The right is suffering from an era of on-demand reality,” is how 30-year-old old think tanker and writer Ben Domenech put it.

Citing Kael, one of the most prominent Republicans in the George W. Bush era complained: “We have become what the left was in the ’70s — insular.”

In this reassuring conservative pocket universe, Rasmussen polls are gospel, the Benghazi controversy is worse than Watergate, “Fair and Balanced” isn’t just marketing and Dick Morris is a political seer.

Even this past weekend, days after a convincing Obama win, it wasn’t hard to find fringes of the right who are convinced he did so only because of mass voter fraud and mysteriously missing military ballots. Like a political version of “Thelma and Louise,” some far-right conservatives are in such denial that they’d just as soon keep on driving off the cliff than face up to a reality they’d rather not confront.

But if the Fox News-talk radio-Drudge Report axis is the most powerful force in the conservative cocoon, technology has rendered even those outlets as merely the most popular destinations in the choose-your-own-adventure news world in which consumers are more empowered than ever.

Facebook and Twitter feeds along with email in-boxes have taken the place of the old newspaper front page, except that the consumer is now entirely in charge of what he or she sees each day and can largely shut out dissenting voices. It’s the great irony of the Internet era: People have more access than ever to an array of viewpoints, but also the technological ability to screen out anything that doesn’t reinforce their views.

“The Internet amplifies talk radio and cable news, and provides distribution for other sources like Newsmax,” said Trey Grayson, 40, the former Kentucky secretary of state and the current head of Harvard’s Institute of Politics. “Then your friends, who usually agree with you, disseminate the same stories on Facebook and Twitter. And you assume that everyone agrees with you!”

Grayson continued: “It’s very striking for me living in Cambridge now. My Facebook feed, which is full of mostly conservatives from Kentucky, contains very different links to articles or topics than what I see in Cambridge. It is sort of the reverse up here. They don’t understand how anyone would eat Chick-fil-A, watch college sports or hold pro-life views.”

“Social media has made it easier to self-select,” added 45-year-old GOP strategist Bruce Haynes. “Who do you follow on Twitter, who do you friend on Facebook? Do they all look the same and say the same things? If so, you’ve created a universe for yourself that is wedded to its own self-fulfilling prophecies.”

Like Grayson, Haynes and many of the approximately two-dozen young Republicans interviewed for this story noted that Democrats have their own self-reassuring echo chambers.

What worries Republicans, though, is that their Kaelism may be harder to overcome in the short term.

“Unfortunately, for us Republicans who want to rebuild this party, the echo chamber [now] is louder and more difficult to overcome,” said Grayson.

That’s partly because of the difference between the two cocoons in the two parties.

First, the Al Sharptons and Rachel Maddows of the left don’t have the same influence as their counterparts on the right. There are as many, if not more, NPR-oriented liberals as MSNBC devotees on the left; the Democratic media ecosystem is larger and more diverse.

Further, and more importantly, the Democratic Party has a leader in Obama who for over four years has sought to appeal to a majority of Americans for the obvious political reasons.

“Being a Democrat means being identified with Barack Obama, not Ed Schultz and Martin Bashir,” said Douthat, citing two liberal MSNBC hosts.

Conversely, for nearly six years, since President Bush’s second term went south, Republicans have been effectively without a leader. And into that vacuum has stepped a series of conservative figures whose incentives in most cases are not to win votes but to make money and score ratings by being provocative and even outlandish.

“Their bottom line is their main goal, but that doesn’t mean they’re serving the population that buys their books,” said Domenech.

And this, say next-generation Republicans, is where cocoonism has been detrimental to the cause.

The tension between the profit- and ratings-driven right — call them entertainment-based conservatives — and conservatives focused on ideas (the thinkers) and winning (the operatives) has never been more evident.

The latter group worries that too many on the right are credulous about the former.

“Dick Morris is a joke to every smart conservative in Washington and most every smart conservative under the age of 40 in America,” said Douthat. “The problem is that most of the people watching Dick Morris don’t know that.”

The egghead-hack coalition believes that the entertainment-based conservatives create an atmosphere that enables flawed down-ballot candidates, creates a cartoonish presidential primary and blocks needed policy reforms, and generally leave an odor on the party that turns off swing voters.

It even fosters an atmosphere in which there’s a disconnect with the ostensible party leaders.

Consider: In the fall of the past two presidential campaigns, those in the conservative cocoon were talking about, respectively, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright and Obama as a black radical, and the seemingly impeachment-worthy scandal surrounding the deaths of U.S. officials in Libya. Meanwhile, on the actual campaign trail, John McCain and Mitt Romney showed little interest in even mentioning either topic.

And the entertainers’ power isn’t just with gullible grass-roots activists who are likely to believe whatever nefarious rumor about Obama is forwarded to them in an e-mail chain — it’s with donors, too.

Outside of Washington, New York and state capitals, the big conservative givers are as likely to have read Ed Klein’s Obama book and seen Dinesh D’Souza’s documentary “2016,” and generally parrot whatever they just heard on Fox News as the old lady stuffing envelopes at county GOP headquarters.

“One of the reasons the entertainment complex has the influence they do is because the people who are supposed to be responsible figures in the party, those who fund the campaigns, have bought into this apocalyptic world view,” said Douthat.

More than a few Republicans said it was such donors whom Romney was trying to impress when he infamously riffed about the “47 percent,” a variation of the makers-versus-takers world view that has become popular in the conservative cocoon (Rush Limbaugh has called Obama “Santa Claus” since Election Day).

The tension between entertainers and operatives-thinkers may have come into sharpest relief in the prolonged, and for many Republicans, painful 2012 GOP primary. The thinkers and the operatives cringed at the umpteen debates and carnival-like procession of candidates with little chance of landing in the Oval Office.

“Look at Newt Inc., [Herman] Cain and [Michele] Bachmann,” sighed Haynes. “What’s the purpose of entering a presidential primary anymore?”

Suggesting the incentives for getting in the race now owe as much to fame as to winning the job, Haynes added: “If that market didn’t exist, what would our primary look like?”

The sexual harassment scandal around Cain offered a vivid example of the different goals of the two groups. To the entertainment-based right, it was a great opportunity to rally the faithful against a purportedly liberal media targeting a black conservative. It touched almost every erogenous zone for the likes of Rush Limbaugh. But for the operatives and thinkers, the story threatened to tarnish the GOP with a sex scandal and make a martyr out of a marginal figure they were already cringing over before POLITICO reported the harassment charges.

Long after the primary ended, the entertainment-based right was still promoting figures that many in the GOP believe are harmful to the party’s brand. Take Donald Trump, who made regular appearances on “Fox & Friends” all year and delighted in pushing the discredited idea that Obama wasn’t born in America. Why energize black voters and turn off moderates broadly by elevating a buffoonish figure questioning the president’s legitimacy? Because it’s good box office. (To be sure, other nonpartisan outlets, including POLITICO, not to mention Romney himself, did their share of enabling Trump).

“It’s like a weird version of identity politics for people who like trash culture and reality TV,” said Douthat of Trump.

This same financial-political tension also arose two years ago in one of the most high-profile GOP Senate primaries in the country between Grayson and Rand Paul. Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, worried that his hand-picked candidate wasn’t getting equal time on Fox to make his case, called Fox President Roger Ailes to ask that Grayson get similar treatment as the oft-interviewed Paul, according to a source familiar with the call. Ailes, who consulted on McConnell’s first Senate race, had tough news for his old friend: Paul was just a better draw.

Some younger conservatives worry that the effects of cocoonism are just as evident after the race as before — and not only in the disbelief that Obama won. The knee-jerk reaction by some on the right to Romney’s poor performance with Hispanics has been to simply say that all will be well with the party if they pass an immigration bill and elevate Cuban-American Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.).

But to many next-generation Republicans, this smacks of tokenism and is more than a tad patronizing.

“They just want to put a sombrero on the Republican elephant,” said one Latino GOP operative, who didn’t want to be identified discussing such a sensitive topic.

Similarly, Haynes fretted that “the mistake Republicans are going to make is thinking this is a demographic and political problem and not a social and cultural problem. You can’t fix this with Orca (the Romney campaign’s ill-fated GOTV software) or iPad apps or to some extent even running Hispanic candidates.”

To young Republican strategists and writers, a fundamental shift of how the party communicates is required. That doesn’t mean delegitimizing hugely popular and powerful outlets on the right, but rather transcending them.

“Communicating to the country’s changing demographics and outside of the Fox News echo chamber is a strategic imperative,” said GOP operative Phil Musser, 40.

“The rise of conservative media has been one of the best things to ever happen to the conservative movement. It has helped us reach new voters, has helped with voter persuasion and even motivation,” said GOP strategist Todd Harris, 41. “But with all the positives, there is this fact: If all you did was watch and read the conservative media, you were probably pretty shocked at what happened Tuesday. There’s a huge and ever-growing segment of the vote that Republicans just aren’t talking to and in some cases didn’t even know existed.”

The good news, say the young Republicans, is that there’s hope for them to appeal more widely. They look no further than to 2004, when liberals were in disbelief that America had reelected George W. Bush. “Jesusland” was the name of the famous map of the country showing where Bush had won.

But instead of inveighing against the purported theocracy the country had become, Obama and his aides began to plot how they could appeal to a broad coalition of voters.

Younger Republicans are confident that they, too, will take over the party and reorient it to accommodate a more tolerant country.

“I expect that in the years to come, a class of young and up-and-coming Republican practitioners will exert a greater degree of influence on how the party’s outreach to key groups is handled and ensure that the tone and tenor of our message is reflective of today’s society,” said Jon Downs, 35, a Republican media consultant.

But these Republicans know a degree of self-examination is required.

“In some communities, like with African-Americans, it’s simply unacceptable to be a Republican. This is a cultural phenomenon,” said Haynes. “Who do you go to church with, who do you send your kids to school with? Are enough Republicans socially and culturally engaged with folks who don’t look like themselves?”

Or, as Domenech put it: “Conservatives may be content to stay in a bubble and yell about Benghazi, but it doesn’t help the cause in the long term.”

What’s needed, he said, is to develop new institutions that will engage conservatives on the issues that the broader country is focused on.

He cited the much-buzzed-about piece in The Atlantic earlier this year about whether women can have successful careers and devote ample attention to child-rearing as a conversation conservatives should have gotten in on.

“We need to play the long game on how people engage in culture and society,” Domenech said. “Conservatives and the right generally have a lot to say, but it’s going to require more than a place to discuss the latest campaign or the New Black Panthers.”

vailpass
11-12-2012, 01:11 PM
Great thread tl/dnr-eckshun!!!:thumb:

Direckshun
11-12-2012, 01:11 PM
Ahem (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=266349).

blaise
11-12-2012, 01:21 PM
I live in a Republican cocoon, I guess. It's called a nice county where people have good jobs and nicely landscaped yards.

|Zach|
11-12-2012, 01:23 PM
I live in a Republican cocoon, I guess. It's called a nice county where people have good jobs and nicely landscaped yards.

No. America has died. Obama killed it.

Does not compute.

blaise
11-12-2012, 01:25 PM
No. America has died. Obama killed it.

Does not compute.

MTV killed America a long time ago. We're just going through the motions.

|Zach|
11-12-2012, 01:29 PM
MTV killed America a long time ago. We're just going through the motions.

Haha

J Diddy
11-12-2012, 02:41 PM
MTV killed America a long time ago. We're just going through the motions.

Fucking Real World.

RNR
11-12-2012, 04:16 PM
MTV killed America a long time ago. We're just going through the motions.

And killed the radio star~

AndChiefs
11-12-2012, 04:42 PM
I knew Obama would win based on the polls and all the info coming out. If Romney had followed up the first debate shellacking with a second debate shellacking of Obama we might have a different story. He just didn't have enough momentum to keep it going.

I am surprised that people could continue to vote for him though. High unemployment, very slow recovery, dismal housing market, continuing wars, and little traction on policies (even when he had his majority). Outside of Obamacare he didn't seem to do anything. Besides blatantly buying votes with his amnesty a few weeks ago.

Repubs blew their chance by being too ideological and inflexible. First rule of a negotiation is that you determine what your sticking points are and then give up the less important issues to gain what you REALLY want. Let's be honest, an election is just a very large negotiation. They showed little resolve to give up even the minutest of details.

I know this thread wasn't directed at me as I'm not a Republican (or Democrat) but I do live in Texas so I see the conservative, insular mindset all the time. For the record, I also don't watch Fox News.

DaFace
11-12-2012, 04:49 PM
I knew Obama would win based on the polls and all the info coming out. If Romney had followed up the first debate shellacking with a second debate shellacking of Obama we might have a different story. He just didn't have enough momentum to keep it going.

I am surprised that people could continue to vote for him though. High unemployment, very slow recovery, dismal housing market, continuing wars, and little traction on policies (even when he had his majority). Outside of Obamacare he didn't seem to do anything. Besides blatantly buying votes with his amnesty a few weeks ago.

Repubs blew their chance by being too ideological and inflexible. First rule of a negotiation is that you determine what your sticking points are and then give up the less important issues to gain what you REALLY want. Let's be honest, an election is just a very large negotiation. They showed little resolve to give up even the minutest of details.

I know this thread wasn't directed at me as I'm not a Republican (or Democrat) but I do live in Texas so I see the conservative, insular mindset all the time. For the record, I also don't watch Fox News.

I think this is spot on.

I personally just wish the R's would accept the fact that they're sticking to dramatically changing public views on many of the social issues. When choosing between the giant douche and the shit sandwich, people grab onto those issues when making a decision on a candidate and ignore a lot of the other stuff. It may not be right, but it's the truth.

vailpass
11-12-2012, 04:54 PM
I think this is spot on.

I personally just wish the R's would accept the fact that they're sticking to dramatically changing public views on many of the social issues. When choosing between the giant douche and the shit sandwich, people grab onto those issues when making a decision on a candidate and ignore a lot of the other stuff. It may not be right, but it's the truth.

It's hard to believe that social issues outweigh economic and other issues for a lot of people. The ability to vote in such a fashion is a luxury paid for by others that, contrary to popular belief, is not a right nor is it self-sustaining.

DaFace
11-12-2012, 04:59 PM
It's hard to believe that social issues outweigh economic and other issues for a lot of people. The ability to vote in such a fashion is a luxury paid for by others that, contrary to popular belief, is not a right nor is it self-sustaining.

I think it's more tangible for people. The debates focus on economic policies that no one can really understand and that there's not a lot of proof of on either side, for example. Everyone says their economists say the other guy's economists are evil, and no one can make any sense of it.

And then there's abortions and gay marriage.

People can never really tell who has the best plan for the country. But they can tell when one guy wants to tell their gay friend that they can't get married and their friend who was raped that they should've been forced to keep the kid.

listopencil
11-12-2012, 05:01 PM
It's hard to believe that social issues outweigh economic and other issues for a lot of people. The ability to vote in such a fashion is a luxury paid for by others that, contrary to popular belief, is not a right nor is it self-sustaining.

That depends on what you mean by "social issues."

vailpass
11-12-2012, 05:02 PM
I think it's more tangible for people. The debates focus on economic policies that no one can really understand and that there's not a lot of proof of on either side, for example. Everyone says their economists say the other guy's economists are evil, and no one can make any sense of it.

And then there's abortions and gay marriage.

People can never really tell who has the best plan for the country. But they can tell when one guy wants to tell their gay friend that they can't get married and their friend who was raped that they should've been forced to keep the kid.

I see what you mean.
Trouble ahead and in our road. Entitlement issues also played a large part in this election, as well as skin color. Need to put all these secondary issues behind us and focus on the real issue or there won't be any good options for anyone.

Brock
11-12-2012, 05:03 PM
It's hard to believe that social issues outweigh economic and other issues for a lot of people. The ability to vote in such a fashion is a luxury paid for by others that, contrary to popular belief, is not a right nor is it self-sustaining.

Social issues don't outweigh economic issues with most people. Nobody believed Romney cares at all about the working class, however, and when you put that together with tiresome, outdated moralistic nonsense, you got yourself a loser. To put it another way, all other things being equal, people voted for the guy who at least appears to be on the right side of these things.

vailpass
11-12-2012, 05:04 PM
That depends on what you mean by "social issues."

entitlements (also economic), gay rights, abortion rights, marijuana, illegal immigration (also an economic and legal issue), to name a few

vailpass
11-12-2012, 05:04 PM
Social issues don't outweigh economic issues with most people. Nobody believed Romney cares at all about the working class, however, and when you put that together with tiresome, outdated moralistic nonsense, you got yourself a loser. To put it another way, all other things being equal, people voted for the guy who at least appears to be on the right side of these things.

Thanks for your opinion. I'd like to see a survey of all who voted for obama as to what their top 2 reasons were for voting that way.

BigRedChief
11-12-2012, 05:09 PM
I think this is spot on.

I personally just wish the R's would accept the fact that they're sticking to dramatically changing public views on many of the social issues.THIS!

Republicans, I say this with love.....

Stay the fuck away from abortion, saying mean things about Latinos, and gay marriage. Stick to your preaching of keeping the governments financial house in order. Point out the really stupid overreaches of the Dem's. Keep the pressure on rising entitlment costs. Stick with your basics.

It's not in the country's best interests to have one party in charge. The demographic freight train is going to run you over. It's better for everyone if you survive that train, just get on board and make the changes you can while the Dem's and R's share that demographic train.

listopencil
11-12-2012, 05:25 PM
gay rights, abortion rights, marijuana, illegal immigration (also an economic and legal issue), to name a few

Cool. I just wanted to make sure. I'll tell you from my perspective.

Economics: I'm gainfully employed, have been with my company for a touch over sixteen years. All of my friends are employed. We pretty much just worry that our taxes might be raised, or that the prices might go up on the things we buy often. Gas, food, household items. We don't think either candidate could do shit about most of that but we worry that Obama and the Democrats will raise our taxes. That's the end of my economic issues.


Social:

I have friends and relatives who are gay. I think it's ****ing retarded not to allow them to marry. There is no reason to deny them that. All I can do is raise my children well so that they can see how the small minded asssholes in power, or in the majority, continue to **** over people who are different from them. Hopefully I will have raised them well enough that their generation can overcome the cowardice and hate that still seems to plague the country on this issue.

Abortion is sometimes the only reasonable alternative. It would be nice if we could all agree with when that "sometimes" happens, but partisan bullshit and mind boggling idiocy won't allow that. I'm looking at you Mister A Woman Can't Get Pregnant From Rape. You're a ****ing disgrace to your third grade Science teacher. So we have to let it continue to be legal and allow the mother/doctor to make that decision. It can't be a political one because politicians are lying douchebags who don't give a shit about you.

Pot should be legal. Why? Because nicotine, caffeine and alcohol are. No medicinal value and high potential for addiction? No shit, really? Then change smokes/coffee/booze to schedule one drugs.

People come here from other countries, pretty much, for jobs. Give them legal resident alien status if they can provide proof of continuous employment. Proof in the form of taxes paid.Of course there is a lot of other shit that has to be done (there's good thread about it) but start with that.


Bottom line? A lot of people in this country need a giant cup of Shut The **** Up, It's None Of Your Business. Unless it has a real impact on your daily life it doesn't concern you.

alnorth
11-12-2012, 05:34 PM
“Dick Morris is a joke to every smart conservative in Washington and most every smart conservative under the age of 40 in America,” said Douthat. “The problem is that most of the people watching Dick Morris don’t know that.”

Hopefully this was the last we hear from this idiot.

cdcox
11-12-2012, 05:51 PM
Top two reasons I voted Obama:

1. Embracing anti-intellectual positions and candidates. Sara Palin, anti-climate change, regressive tax schemes, Michelle Bachman, Herman Cain, Ryan coupons for heathcare.
2. Tea party. Their smug and/or angry attitudes and libertarian positions that fail to recognize the legitimate services that gov provides. Grover Norquist could go here or in 1.

I'm punishing the republican party by voting against everyone of their candidates (even ones I like) until they reclaim their party from these influences. It's not that we don't need entitlements reform. We desperately do. But with the current voices in charge of the republicans, we can't do that in a thoughtful, intelligent, and fair way.

Pitt Gorilla
11-12-2012, 06:05 PM
Cool. I just wanted to make sure. I'll tell you from my perspective.

Economics: I'm gainfully employed, have been with my company for a touch over sixteen years. All of my friends are employed. We pretty much just worry that our taxes might be raised, or that the prices might go up on the things we buy often. Gas, food, household items. We don't think either candidate could do shit about most of that but we worry that Obama and the Democrats will raise our taxes. That's the end of my economic issues.


Social:

I have friends and relatives who are gay. I think it's ****ing retarded not to allow them to marry. There is no reason to deny them that. All I can do is raise my children well so that they can see how the small minded asssholes in power, or in the majority, continue to **** over people who are different from them. Hopefully I will have raised them well enough that their generation can overcome the cowardice and hate that still seems to plague the country on this issue.

Abortion is sometimes the only reasonable alternative. It would be nice if we could all agree with when that "sometimes" happens, but partisan bullshit and mind boggling idiocy won't allow that. I'm looking at you Mister A Woman Can't Get Pregnant From Rape. You're a ****ing disgrace to your third grade Science teacher. So we have to let it continue to be legal and allow the mother/doctor to make that decision. It can't be a political one because politicians are lying douchebags who don't give a shit about you.

Pot should be legal. Why? Because nicotine, caffeine and alcohol are. No medicinal value and high potential for addiction? No shit, really? Then change smokes/coffee/booze to schedule one drugs.

People come here from other countries, pretty much, for jobs. Give them legal resident alien status if they can provide proof of continuous employment. Proof in the form of taxes paid.Of course there is a lot of other shit that has to be done (there's good thread about it) but start with that.


Bottom line? A lot of people in this country need a giant cup of Shut The **** Up, It's None Of Your Business. Unless it has a real impact on your daily life it doesn't concern you.wow absolutely dead on. Rep.

KC native
11-12-2012, 06:08 PM
I live in a Republican cocoon, I guess. It's called a nice county where people have good jobs and nicely landscaped yards.

And the same 10 interchangeable stores every 5 minutes. Plano is suburban hell. You are definitely cocooned.

DaFace
11-12-2012, 06:21 PM
Top two reasons I voted Obama:

1. Embracing anti-intellectual positions and candidates. Sara Palin, anti-climate change, regressive tax schemes, Michelle Bachman, Herman Cain, Ryan coupons for heathcare.
2. Tea party. Their smug and/or angry attitudes and libertarian positions that fail to recognize the legitimate services that gov provides. Grover Norquist could go here or in 1.

I'm punishing the republican party by voting against everyone of their candidates (even ones I like) until they reclaim their party from these influences. It's not that we don't need entitlements reform. We desperately do. But with the current voices in charge of the republicans, we can't do that in a thoughtful, intelligent, and fair way.

I'd forgotten about climate change. That's another big one.

BucEyedPea
11-12-2012, 06:29 PM
Thanks for your opinion. I'd like to see a survey of all who voted for obama as to what their top 2 reasons were for voting that way.

Well I just saw some Exits polls showing that Obama's campaign message reached Americans more than Romney's.

This was the order:

They thought Republicans were most interested in helping

The Wealthy 50%
Big Business 48%
Hardworking Taxpayers 26%
The Middle Class 23%
Small Business 18%
Families 16%
The Poor 3%


Yet Obama bailed out big business and some of the wealthiest. Go figure. It doesn't look like it was social issues per this. The class warfare rhetoric worked.

BucEyedPea
11-12-2012, 06:31 PM
Top two reasons I voted Obama:


2. Tea party. Their smug and/or angry attitudes and libertarian positions that fail to recognize the legitimate services that gov provides. Grover Norquist could go here or in 1.



You mean like the Tea Partiers who cried don't cut my Medicare? There were lots of those. Grover Norquist is for military cuts at least. You've always struck me as being for big govt and more left than right. So this doesn't surprise me. Not that Romney is a right winger.
He's a Massachusetts liberal who ran to the left of Ted Kennedy in the 90's.

BucEyedPea
11-12-2012, 06:33 PM
One my daughter's roomies already is regretting voting for Obama. Her health insurance was just cut. This girl was a marketing major who was undecided.

La literatura
11-12-2012, 06:34 PM
One my daughter's roomies already is regretting voting for Obama. Her health insurance was just cut. This girl was a marketing major who was undecided.

Parents til 26.

Cannibal
11-12-2012, 06:37 PM
One my daughter's roomies already is regretting voting for Obama. Her health insurance was just cut. This girl was a marketing major who was undecided.

The anecdote queen strikes again.

BucEyedPea
11-12-2012, 06:38 PM
One of the co-founders of Home Depot was on a Forbes video. He's a millionaire and he said when they started in the 70's they really struggled. It was because of Reagan Republicans and Democrats that they were able to do what they did becoming successful and growing their stores and this was related to taxes. Not that he was unwilling to pay a little bit more but he made the point that policies punishing businesses don't help anyone either.

BucEyedPea
11-12-2012, 06:38 PM
The anecdote queen strikes again.

Yup! Look at the anecdotes in posts #20 and #22 too. Same thing...individual's povs.

BucEyedPea
11-12-2012, 06:41 PM
The anecdote queen strikes again.

The attack dog strikes again.

|Zach|
11-12-2012, 06:50 PM
I understand being a libertarian...small government personal freedom...it goes on and on. I understand being a Democrat. I can't understand for the life of me why someone would be a Republican. It is like the worst parts of the different parties combined into one.

|Zach|
11-12-2012, 06:51 PM
The anecdote queen strikes again.

Hey, shut up.

She knows someone...just trust her that she knows someone that blows what you are saying out of the water as false.

ROFL

Pitt Gorilla
11-12-2012, 06:53 PM
One my daughter's roomies already is regretting voting for Obama. Her health insurance was just cut. This girl was a marketing major who was undecided.Wow, Obama strikes quickly!

BucEyedPea
11-12-2012, 06:54 PM
Wow, Obama strikes quickly!

Yup! Just look at the amount of layoffs that are taking place....and the advice in Kiplinger's or Barron's. The unloading has got to happen before 2013 and it is.

DaFace
11-12-2012, 07:01 PM
So, is BEP kind of like the DC equivalent of KnowMo or something?

Pitt Gorilla
11-12-2012, 07:05 PM
So, is BEP kind of like the DC equivalent of KnowMo or something?KnowMo + CoMO

DaFace
11-12-2012, 07:12 PM
KnowMo + CoMO

Scary.

cosmo20002
11-12-2012, 07:17 PM
One my daughter's roomies already is regretting voting for Obama. Her health insurance was just cut. This girl was a marketing major who was undecided.

Your daughter's roomie's insurance "was cut"? This really is completely meaningless.

And how is someone a marketing major and "undecided?" Most of your stories are a couple parts short of being plausible.

BucEyedPea
11-12-2012, 07:17 PM
Scary.

Wuss

BucEyedPea
11-12-2012, 07:20 PM
Your daughter's roomie's insurance "was cut"? This really is completely meaningless.

And how is someone a marketing major and "undecided?" Most of your stories are a couple parts short of being plausible.

Do you always shoot the messenger? I am just imparting a story, as others were. It's just one person. I mentioned this girl on election day or the night before that she was undecided. She was seeking viewpoints on both.

La literatura
11-12-2012, 07:21 PM
Your daughter's roomie's insurance "was cut"? This really is completely meaningless.

And how is someone a marketing major and "undecided?" Most of your stories are a couple parts short of being plausible.

She was a marketing major who was undecided whether to take the kool-aid her roommate was offering.

cosmo20002
11-12-2012, 07:26 PM
Do you always shoot the messenger? I am just imparting a story, as others were. It's just one person. I mentioned this girl on election day or the night before that she was undecided. She was seeking viewpoints on both.

OK, but surely you can see that the story lacks any detail to make it relevant. You don't have to repeat something just because someone told it to you.

BucEyedPea
11-12-2012, 07:28 PM
...libertarian positions that fail to recognize the legitimate services that gov provides.

May I ask what are legitimate services govt provides or how you determine that?

I rely on the U.S. Constitution and then State govt's role for those. What do you use?

BucEyedPea
11-12-2012, 07:41 PM
OK, but surely you can see that the story lacks any detail to make it relevant.
To you perhaps. There isn't much more detail anyway except that the socialist in the group convinced to go with Obama but this one kept it secret until now. My daughter tried to appeal to her regarding business being better off, since she was a marketing major. Now she sees it. Not only that they were also talking about the layoffs and the socialist social worker major, a loveable one, said those businesses were being greedy. ROFL


You don't have to repeat something just because someone told it to you.

So you're into censorship? I just thought it was interesting. I'll choose what I want to talk about.
You don't have to read it if you don't want. K?

La literatura
11-12-2012, 07:42 PM
My daughter tried to appeal to her regarding business being better off, since she was a marketing major. Now she sees it. Not only that they were also talking about the layoffs and the socialist, a loveable one, said those businesses were being greedy. ROFL

Didn't happen.

Dave Lane
11-12-2012, 08:23 PM
Why the fuck didn't someone bet BEP on the elections, jeez shes extra annoying since the election.

cosmo20002
11-12-2012, 08:29 PM
To you perhaps. There isn't much more detail anyway except that the socialist in the group convinced to go with Obama but this one kept it secret until now. My daughter tried to appeal to her regarding business being better off, since she was a marketing major. Now she sees it. Not only that they were also talking about the layoffs and the socialist social worker major, a loveable one, said those businesses were being greedy. ROFL

So you're into censorship? I just thought it was interesting. I'll choose what I want to talk about.
You don't have to read it if you don't want. K?

That's actually pretty amazing hearing that from you. I'm sure you know what censorship really is. But if editing yourself and occasionally having an unspoken/unwritten thought or experience is censorship, then, yes, I'm for it.

Ugly Duck
11-13-2012, 12:08 AM
I'd like to see a survey of all who voted for obama as to what their top 2 reasons were for voting that way.

Who is going to fund a survey of over 62 million people?

blaise
11-13-2012, 04:57 AM
Who is going to fund a survey of over 62 million people?

It's part of the new Obama job creation program.

BucEyedPea
11-13-2012, 05:13 AM
That's actually pretty amazing hearing that from you. I'm sure you know what censorship really is. But if editing yourself and occasionally having an unspoken/unwritten thought or experience is censorship, then, yes, I'm for it.

Thanks for admitting you support censorship. The left is all about censoring right-wing ideas, thoughts or experiences even if just casual conversation.

I think your error here is thinking that everything a person posts happens to be debate material or arguments. Sometimes people just chat or comment on their observations, experiences or own life.

I wouldn't expect you, of all people, to be able to discern the difference.

BucEyedPea
11-13-2012, 05:15 AM
Why the **** didn't someone bet BEP on the elections, jeez shes extra annoying since the election.

ROFL

So when are you going to back up your lie on me predicting an electoral landslide by Romney?


I'm still waiting.

mr. tegu
11-13-2012, 07:47 AM
Cool. I just wanted to make sure. I'll tell you from my perspective.

Economics: I'm gainfully employed, have been with my company for a touch over sixteen years. All of my friends are employed. We pretty much just worry that our taxes might be raised, or that the prices might go up on the things we buy often. Gas, food, household items. We don't think either candidate could do shit about most of that but we worry that Obama and the Democrats will raise our taxes. That's the end of my economic issues.


Social:

I have friends and relatives who are gay. I think it's ****ing retarded not to allow them to marry. There is no reason to deny them that. All I can do is raise my children well so that they can see how the small minded asssholes in power, or in the majority, continue to **** over people who are different from them. Hopefully I will have raised them well enough that their generation can overcome the cowardice and hate that still seems to plague the country on this issue.

Abortion is sometimes the only reasonable alternative. It would be nice if we could all agree with when that "sometimes" happens, but partisan bullshit and mind boggling idiocy won't allow that. I'm looking at you Mister A Woman Can't Get Pregnant From Rape. You're a ****ing disgrace to your third grade Science teacher. So we have to let it continue to be legal and allow the mother/doctor to make that decision. It can't be a political one because politicians are lying douchebags who don't give a shit about you.

Pot should be legal. Why? Because nicotine, caffeine and alcohol are. No medicinal value and high potential for addiction? No shit, really? Then change smokes/coffee/booze to schedule one drugs.

People come here from other countries, pretty much, for jobs. Give them legal resident alien status if they can provide proof of continuous employment. Proof in the form of taxes paid.Of course there is a lot of other shit that has to be done (there's good thread about it) but start with that.


Bottom line? A lot of people in this country need a giant cup of Shut The **** Up, It's None Of Your Business. Unless it has a real impact on your daily life it doesn't concern you.

Very well said. :clap:

blaise
11-13-2012, 08:26 AM
And the same 10 interchangeable stores every 5 minutes. Plano is suburban hell. You are definitely cocooned.

It's actually Frisco now. I just never updated my info.

patteeu
11-13-2012, 08:26 AM
I think it's more tangible for people. The debates focus on economic policies that no one can really understand and that there's not a lot of proof of on either side, for example. Everyone says their economists say the other guy's economists are evil, and no one can make any sense of it.

And then there's abortions and gay marriage.

People can never really tell who has the best plan for the country. But they can tell when one guy wants to tell their gay friend that they can't get married and their friend who was raped that they should've been forced to keep the kid.

No one is in favor of forcing rape victims to keep the kid. Adoption is encouraged for any would-be mother who isn't up to he task for whatever reason.

patteeu
11-13-2012, 08:30 AM
Top two reasons I voted Obama:

1. Embracing anti-intellectual positions and candidates. Sara Palin, anti-climate change, regressive tax schemes, Michelle Bachman, Herman Cain, Ryan coupons for heathcare.
2. Tea party. Their smug and/or angry attitudes and libertarian positions that fail to recognize the legitimate services that gov provides. Grover Norquist could go here or in 1.

I'm punishing the republican party by voting against everyone of their candidates (even ones I like) until they reclaim their party from these influences. It's not that we don't need entitlements reform. We desperately do. But with the current voices in charge of the republicans, we can't do that in a thoughtful, intelligent, and fair way.

Are you sure you can count?

patteeu
11-13-2012, 08:40 AM
Scary.

I wouldn't take the word of her antagonists at face value.

DaFace
11-13-2012, 09:15 AM
I wouldn't take the word of her antagonists at face value.

Well, I drew the KnowMo conclusion myself, so that's not really taking anything at face value.

patteeu
11-13-2012, 09:17 AM
Well, I drew the KnowMo conclusion myself, so that's not really taking anything at face value.

I don't know KnowMo well enough to see the similarity or argue against it, but it seems like the comparison to CoMo is overly harsh.

KC native
11-13-2012, 09:28 AM
It's actually Frisco now. I just never updated my info.

Everything north of 635 is the same to me. :shrug:

Reaper16
11-13-2012, 09:31 AM
No one is in favor of forcing rape victims to keep the kid. Adoption is encouraged for any would-be mother who isn't up to he task for whatever reason.

grossgrossgrossgrossgross.

-King-
11-13-2012, 09:56 AM
My friends girlfriend's uncle's stepson is a small business owner and he is already being rewarded for voting for Obama. He is a economics major and was undecided.
Posted via Mobile Device

suzzer99
11-13-2012, 10:19 AM
This whole forum is exhibit A of the negative influence that this article is talking about by the right-wing media complex. I'm not surprised that most of the crazy frothy conservatives on here have just ignored this thread. They prefer the bubble.

vailpass
11-13-2012, 10:35 AM
Are you sure you can count?

LMAO

vailpass
11-13-2012, 10:36 AM
This whole forum is exhibit A of the negative influence that this article is talking about by the right-wing media complex. I'm not surprised that most of the crazy frothy conservatives on here have just ignored this thread. They prefer the bubble.

Thanks for your world view. I didn't realize people could travel on an EBT card.

patteeu
11-13-2012, 10:37 AM
My friends girlfriend's uncle's stepson is a small business owner and he is already being rewarded for voting for Obama. He is a economics major and was undecided.
Posted via Mobile Device

I know your friends girlfriend's uncle's stepson and that's not true at all. In fact, since Obama's re-election, he's had to close his business and now he's prostituting himself on street corners just to make ends meet. It's really very sad.

blaise
11-13-2012, 10:39 AM
This whole forum is exhibit A of the negative influence that this article is talking about by the right-wing media complex. I'm not surprised that most of the crazy frothy conservatives on here have just ignored this thread. They prefer the bubble.

How's things over at the poker message boards, spazzer? They should all be turning pro full time any day now, I bet.

vailpass
11-13-2012, 10:40 AM
How's things over at the poker message boards, spazzer? They should all be turning pro full time any day now, I bet.

LMAO What was that username you had for him?

BucEyedPea
11-13-2012, 01:23 PM
Why the **** didn't someone bet BEP on the elections, jeez shes extra annoying since the election.

"He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper."

Edmund Burke

BucEyedPea
11-13-2012, 01:24 PM
I don't know KnowMo well enough to see the similarity or argue against it, but it seems like the comparison to CoMo is overly harsh.

"I thought ten thousand swords must have leaped from their scabbards to avenge even a look that threatened her with insult. But the age of chivalry is gone."
Edmund Burke

cosmo20002
11-13-2012, 01:34 PM
My friends girlfriend's uncle's stepson is a small business owner and he is already being rewarded for voting for Obama. He is a economics major and was undecided.


I know your friends girlfriend's uncle's stepson and that's not true at all. In fact, since Obama's re-election, he's had to close his business and now he's prostituting himself on street corners just to make ends meet. It's really very sad.

I find these anecdotes completely possible.

/BEP

blaise
11-13-2012, 01:36 PM
LMAO What was that username you had for him?

ACESHIGH420 or something. You know they're all, PocketKing and junk like that. "Yeah, man. Got $4,000 saved up. Just $1,000 more and that'll be a big enough stake to quit my job and go pro, full time."

vailpass
11-13-2012, 02:55 PM
ACESHIGH420 or something. You know they're all, PocketKing and junk like that. "Yeah, man. Got $4,000 saved up. Just $1,000 more and that'll be a big enough stake to quit my job and go pro, full time."

LMAO

suzzer99
11-13-2012, 04:56 PM
How's things over at the poker message boards, spazzer? They should all be turning pro full time any day now, I bet.

Many of us were pros but gave it up after black friday. Actually I got a job about 6 months prior - after playing for a living for a couple years.