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View Full Version : Elections FL Republicans admit it was never about voter fraud


suzzer99
11-26-2012, 06:34 PM
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/early-voting-curbs-called-power-play/nTFDy/

Former Florida GOP leaders say voter suppression was reason they pushed new election law
Former GOP chair, governor - both on outs with party - say voter fraud wasn’t a concern, but reducing Democratic votes was.

By Dara Kam and John Lantigua

Former Republican Party of Florida Chairman Jim Greer says he attended various meetings, beginning in 2009, at which party staffers and consultants pushed for reductions in early voting days and hours.

“The Republican Party, the strategists, the consultants, they firmly believe that early voting is bad for Republican Party candidates,” Greer told The Post. “It’s done for one reason and one reason only. … ‘We’ve got to cut down on early voting because early voting is not good for us,’ ” Greer said he was told by those staffers and consultants.

“They never came in to see me and tell me we had a (voter) fraud issue,” Greer said. “It’s all a marketing ploy.”


Wayne Bertsch, who handles local and legislative races for Republicans, said he knew targeting Democrats was the goal.

“In the races I was involved in in 2008, when we started seeing the increase of turnout and the turnout operations that the Democrats were doing in early voting, it certainly sent a chill down our spines. And in 2008, it didn’t have the impact that we were afraid of. It got close, but it wasn’t the impact that they had this election cycle,” Bertsch said, referring to the fact that Democrats picked up seven legislative seats in Florida in 2012 despite the early voting limitations.

“The sad thing about that is yes, there is prejudice and racism in the party but the real prevailing thought is that they don’t think minorities will ever vote Republican,” he said. “It’s not really a broad-based racist issue. It’s simply that the Republican Party gave up a long time ago ever believing that anything they did would get minorities to vote for them.”

But a GOP consultant who asked to remain anonymous out of fear of retribution said black voters were a concern.

“I know that the cutting out of the Sunday before Election Day was one of their targets only because that’s a big day when the black churches organize themselves,” he said.

No. Way.

go bowe
11-26-2012, 06:40 PM
more communist propaganda...

BucEyedPea
11-26-2012, 06:58 PM
Frankly, I think early voting is dumb. Everyone should vote on the same day, unless they have a valid reason for not being able to be in their state. Like work or military or some medical need to be in another state. Then issue an absentee ballot for people like that. There's no need for all these multiple schedules. Then have all this reporting on who is ahead in early voting. Just leave it alone for election day. If that's bad for Democrats then that says something about their base. If blacks can vote on a Sunday then they can vote on election day too.

BucEyedPea
11-26-2012, 07:06 PM
Here's another thing: If Rs are targeting minorities or those unlikely to have a high motivation to vote, by not supporting early voting, then the Democrats are providing special treatment to the same to gain advantage. So what's the difference here? None.

La literatura
11-26-2012, 07:08 PM
Here's another thing: If Rs are targeting minorities or those unlikely to have a high motivation to vote, by not supporting early voting, then the Democrats are providing special treatment to the same to gain advantage. So what's the difference here? None.

The difference is that one group is promoting the exercising of a fundamental freedom, and another group is trying to stop the exercising of that fundamental freedom.

I guess it depends on how important you think fundamental freedoms are.

BucEyedPea
11-26-2012, 07:10 PM
The difference is that one group is promoting the exercising of a fundamental freedom, and another group is trying to stop the exercising of that fundamental freedom.

I guess it depends on how important you think fundamental freedoms are.

It has nothing to do with that if some people need to be cajoled or catered to in order to vote. Both are trying to take advantage.

La literatura
11-26-2012, 07:14 PM
It has nothing to do with that if some people need to be cajoled or catered to in order to vote. Both are trying to take advantage.

It has everything to do with the issue I just said. Voting is a fundamental freedom. Trying to prevent citizens from voting is an attempt to obstruct their exercising of that fundamental freedom.

BucEyedPea
11-26-2012, 07:18 PM
With new polls showing the race between President Obama and Republican Mitt Romney tied at 47 percent, Democratic leaders are hoping that early voting will favor Obama.

Proves my point.

http://www.blackamericaweb.com/content/does-early-voting-favor-obama

BucEyedPea
11-26-2012, 07:24 PM
If we're gonna have early voting, it should at least be more condensed–like one day. Now instead of Election Day we have Election Month.

BucEyedPea
11-26-2012, 08:14 PM
Now why is it okay for the left to pass laws barring pastors from being involved in politics, like urging their parishioners to vote for certain values?

La literatura
11-26-2012, 08:51 PM
If we're gonna have early voting, it should at least be more condensed–like one day. Now instead of Election Day we have Election Month.

Why is that bad?

La literatura
11-26-2012, 08:52 PM
Now why is it okay for the left to pass laws barring pastors from being involved in politics, like urging their parishioners to vote for certain values?

There are no laws that bar pastors from being involved in politics. Pastors can urge their parishioners to vote for certain values.

Brainiac
11-26-2012, 09:13 PM
There are no laws that bar pastors from being involved in politics. Pastors can urge their parishioners to vote for certain values.
It's not against the law for a pastor to tell his parishioners who to vote for. However, the church is supposed to lose its tax exempt status in a situation like that. Tax exempt organizations are prohibited from participating in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.

Saying that and seeing it enforced are two very different things.

BigRedChief
11-26-2012, 09:16 PM
I'm so surprised.

La literatura
11-26-2012, 09:18 PM
It's not against the law for a pastor to tell his parishioners who to vote for. However, the church is supposed to lose its tax exempt status in a situation like that. Tax exempt organizations are prohibited from participating in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.

Saying that and seeing it enforced are two very different things.

Nobody loses their tax exempt status for telling their parishioners to vote for certain values.

Brainiac
11-26-2012, 09:29 PM
Nobody loses their tax exempt status for telling their parishioners to vote for certain values.
It RARELY happens. That doesn't mean it NEVER happens.


Group challenges tax-exempt status of bishop who compared Obama to Hitler, Stalin

Americans United for Separation of Church and State has filed a complaint with the IRS concerning a Catholic bishop who sparked outrage by comparing President Barack Obama to Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin.

Bishop Daniel R. Jenky of the Catholic Diocese of Peoria said the President was “intent on following a similar path” of the two mass-murderers and that his “radical, pro-abortion and extreme secularist agenda” threatened the First Amendment rights of Catholics. He added that “every practicing Catholic must vote, and must vote their Catholic consciences.”

“Bishop Jenky’s intervention in the election wasn’t just extreme and mean-spirited, it also seems to be a clear violation of federal law,” said the Rev. Fece W. Lynn, Americans United executive director. “Churches are tax-exempt institutions, and they aren’t allowed to intervene in partisan politics.”


Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code prohibits charities and churches from intervening in political campaigns on behalf of or in opposition to any candidate.

Even though the bishop never explicitly said not to vote for Obama in 2012, Americans United said his controversial remarks still ran afoul of the law.

“Bishop Jenky compared Obama to Hitler and Stalin and accused him of pursuing policies that will close Catholic institutions,” Lynn added. “Moments later, he exhorted members of his flock not to vote for candidates who fail to uphold Catholic values. It is impossible to interpret this as anything but a command to vote against Obama.”

However, given historical precedent, it seems unlikely that the IRS will take action. Very few Christian churches have ever lost their tax-exempt status for violating Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

[Ed. note: Updated after publication. A previous version of this article incorrectly stated that no church had ever lost its tax-exempt status. The Church at Pierce Creek in Binghamton, New York lost its tax-exempt status after placing full-page ads in USA Today and the Washington Times in 1992 opposing Bill Clinton's candidacy.]


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/22/group-challenges-tax-exempt-status-of-bishop-who-compared-obama-to-hitler-stalin/

La literatura
11-26-2012, 09:39 PM
It RARELY happens. That doesn't mean it NEVER happens.


It has never happened. Taking out ads against a political candidate is not telling parishioners to vote for certain values.

Direckshun
11-26-2012, 11:24 PM
I had a massive thread (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=261139) where I documented this bullshit in the heat of the 2012 campaign.

This was transparent from the start. There was no plausible deniability from defenders of this legislation.

Disenfranchisement is why the Republicans lost in 2012.

It will be a stain on their brand for as long as they chase this transparent, anti-democratic bullshit.

BucEyedPea
11-26-2012, 11:28 PM
Disenfranchisement is why the Republicans lost in 2012.
How could that be, if they blocked so many Democrats, when you still won? This doesn't make any sense.
Kinda like you guys wailing about Citizen's United harming your side.

Oh, and many on the Christian right stayed home don't forget.

It will be a stain on their brand for as long as they chase this transparent, anti-democratic bullshit.
Maybe...but bribing voters is just as transparent.

I say the stain is regarding to what they did to Paul more. Mr. Republican.

BucEyedPea
11-26-2012, 11:38 PM
It RARELY happens. That doesn't mean it NEVER happens.



http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/22/group-challenges-tax-exempt-status-of-bishop-who-compared-obama-to-hitler-stalin/
and...

Freedom From Religion Foundation Sues IRS Over Political Activity By Churches, Religious Groups
MADISON, Wis. -- A federal lawsuit filed by a Wisconsin-based group representing atheists and agnostics argues that the Internal Revenue Service is violating the U.S. Constitution by allowing tax-exempt churches and religious organizations to get involved in political campaigns.

One guy they went after were ads by the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association this election.
They're even sore about Catholic bishops encouraging members to vote in line with a “Catholic conscience."

IRS doesn't enforce the after churches for fear the SC will declare it unConstitutional. So some pastors put on "'Pulpit Freedom Sunday,' a national event on Oct. 7 in which more than 1,500 pastors endorsed a candidate from the pulpit and then sent a record of their statement to the IRS, hoping their challenge would eventually end up in court."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/15/freedom-from-religion-foundation-lawsuit_n_2138457.html

BucEyedPea
11-26-2012, 11:39 PM
Yeah right, the left doesn't try to disenfranchise anyone. Only the ones they think will hurt them. Pots meeting kettles.

Pitt Gorilla
11-26-2012, 11:42 PM
Shocking?

banyon
11-27-2012, 12:00 AM
Frankly, I think early voting is dumb. Everyone should vote on the same day, unless they have a valid reason for not being able to be in their state. Like work or military or some medical need to be in another state. Then issue an absentee ballot for people like that. There's no need for all these multiple schedules. Then have all this reporting on who is ahead in early voting. Just leave it alone for election day. If that's bad for Democrats then that says something about their base. If blacks can vote on a Sunday then they can vote on election day too.

If the voting lines at polling places were the same, then i'd be fine with this. however, when heavily urban democratic areas have 7 hour lines and rural white areas have 7 minute lines, then the early voting is needed.

bowener
11-27-2012, 12:28 AM
This doesn't really concern early voting, which I see no issue with since a lot of people can't get off work or afford to take sick day (if their job has them), but why hasn't it been made a national holiday?

Direckshun
11-27-2012, 12:41 AM
This doesn't really concern early voting, which I see no issue with since a lot of people can't get off work or afford to take sick day (if their job has them), but why hasn't it been made a national holiday?

Makes no sense.

We even have a federal holiday several days later, in Veterans Day.

Just hold election day then.