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O.city
12-11-2012, 10:06 AM
This was posted in another thread by Milkman, but it got overlooked so I'm making a thread out of it.

I know, another QB thread. But this needs to be put out there for some of the "posters" here to see and think about.

The top three in this years class are in no particular order:

Geno Smith
Tyler Wilson
Matt Barkley

Thats not counting Bray, Glennon, Nassib, etc. Who are all talented in their own right.

So, many posters here want to say, "no not this year, this class is awful don't take one, there isn't a Luck or RGIII in the bunch", which isn't necessarily false.

No there isn't a once in a decade guy. Which is probably what Luck was. Hell even more there have been 2 guys of his stature come out in the last 20 or so years. Luck and Manning.

Yet there are franchise QB's all over the league. How is that so you may ask?

Lets take a look at the last 5 QB classes top 3 guys to come out and get drafted, taking out 2012's class.

2007
Jamarcus Russel
Brady Quinn
Kevin Kolb

2008
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Brian Brohm

2009
Matt Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Josh Freeman

2010
Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow
Jimmy Clausen

2011
Cam Newton
Blaine Gabbert
Jake Locker

Look at those classes and no, you have to evaluate them at the time they were picked, not what they are now, we don't know what this years class will be in the NFL.

I'd argue that this years class is more loaded than any of those classes at the top and from top to bottom.

So, you wanna argue that this isn't a year to take a QB? I'll argue that its a great year to take a QB.

Scorp
12-11-2012, 10:14 AM
There is no debate here. Geno or death!

Chief_For_Life58
12-11-2012, 10:15 AM
chiefs suck

Chief_For_Life58
12-11-2012, 10:15 AM
Geno or die

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-11-2012, 10:16 AM
Too risky. TEO!!!!

ChiTown
12-11-2012, 10:17 AM
Is there an OT in this draft named Geno?

Hog Farmer
12-11-2012, 10:18 AM
Hog semen > 2013 QB class

O.city
12-11-2012, 10:20 AM
We will have a top 3 pick this year. Probably, hopefully, the 1st overall pick. When you are that bad, it's not at the point where an ILB or a CB can turn you around.


IF i'm picking in the top 3, the absolute ONLY positions I'm taking are LT, QB, or pass rusher. They are about the only guys who impact the game enough to be taken that high. If there isn't one that rates that high, i'm probably reaching and taking one anyway.

Scorp
12-11-2012, 10:21 AM
Hog semen > 2013 QB class

Only if it is aged properly in oak!

SNR
12-11-2012, 10:22 AM
Star players make me scared. Draft a fatty.

ChiTown
12-11-2012, 10:22 AM
Star players make me scared. Draft a fatty.

Sincerely,

Carl Peterson

Chiefnj2
12-11-2012, 10:24 AM
I don't think there are many people saying don't take one. People are talking about how good they actually are, draft value, can you move back and still get one, how far is the drop off from a Barkley to a Nassib/Dysert/Jones, etc.

Just because someone isn't sold that Geno Smith has the pocket presence of Luck and just as good of an arm and accuracy as RGIII (claims made by some on this board) doesn't mean people don't want to take a QB.

SNR
12-11-2012, 10:26 AM
I don't think there are many people saying don't take one. People are talking about how good they actually are, draft value, can you move back and still get one, how far is the drop off from a Barkley to a Nassib/Dysert/Jones, etc.

Just because someone isn't sold that Geno Smith has the pocket presence of Luck and just as good of an arm and accuracy as RGIII (claims made by some on this board) doesn't mean people don't want to take a QB.
ANDREW LUCK IS TEH GRATEST QB TO DO ANY QB THINGS EVAR NOW AND FOREVAR MOAR AMEN!!!

Chief_For_Life58
12-11-2012, 10:27 AM
ANDREW LUCK IS TEH GRATEST QB TO DO ANY QB THINGS EVAR NOW AND FOREVAR MOAR AMEN!!!

ahmen

Mr. Arrowhead
12-11-2012, 10:28 AM
WE WANT GENO!!!!!!!!!!!

Chief_For_Life58
12-11-2012, 10:28 AM
fuck draft value. draft geno smif with our first pick. take a project qb in the 3rd round.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 10:29 AM
IF i'm picking in the top 3, the absolute ONLY positions I'm taking are LT, QB, or pass rusher. They are about the only guys who impact the game enough to be taken that high.

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/sean-salisbury.jpg

the Talking Can
12-11-2012, 10:29 AM
too risky

better to take a LB and draft whatever QB is leftover...that is safe, and safe is priority #1

O.city
12-11-2012, 10:31 AM
I don't think there are many people saying don't take one. People are talking about how good they actually are, draft value, can you move back and still get one, how far is the drop off from a Barkley to a Nassib/Dysert/Jones, etc.

Just because someone isn't sold that Geno Smith has the pocket presence of Luck and just as good of an arm and accuracy as RGIII (claims made by some on this board) doesn't mean people don't want to take a QB.

And thats fine.


But, last year was an absolute anomaly in terms of QBs at the top.

SNR
12-11-2012, 10:31 AM
too risky

better to take a LB and draft whatever QB is leftover...that is safe, and safe is priority #1
Yep. Cap hell, losing draft value, and setting the franchise back are terrible things. TERRRRRIBLE things.

Do you want to be the Raiders? No? Then draft a 5-tech and be damn grateful we're even considering a Ricky Stanzi in the 2nd round.

Chiefnj2
12-11-2012, 10:32 AM
ANDREW LUCK IS TEH GRATEST QB TO DO ANY QB THINGS EVAR NOW AND FOREVAR MOAR AMEN!!!

Lets see how many teams are willing to give up 3+ first round picks for Smith.

suds79
12-11-2012, 10:34 AM
IF i'm picking in the top 3, the absolute ONLY positions I'm taking are LT, QB, or pass rusher. They are about the only guys who impact the game enough to be taken that high.

Are you Shawn Salisbury?

I heard this exact same take on 810 about a week ago. :)

Having said that, I 100% fully agree.

SNR
12-11-2012, 10:35 AM
Does somebody want to take the bait on this?

Andrew Luck is the best overall QB to enter the draft in a long, long time.

Is he the best QB to enter the draft to be the best at every aspect of playing the position in a long, long, time? In other words, is it possible that there's a QB who is better than him at a particular part of the position other than athletic ability?

That's what I can't get over. Luck is great because he has no glaring flaws. He's not great because he's the greatest at EVERYTHING. He's not.

SNR
12-11-2012, 10:35 AM
Lets see how many teams are willing to give up 3+ first round picks for Smith.

Stick to the topic at hand, please.

suds79
12-11-2012, 10:36 AM
For anybody of the mindset of "Well just grab the best QB with that 1st pick in round 2"

I think the recent history suggest what a big difference there is between the 1st QB projected vs the 3rd best guy which is what you'll get if you wait until round 2.

the Talking Can
12-11-2012, 10:37 AM
i'm trying to figure out why we can't draft a QB because Luck was drafted last year...or how it has any bearing at all on anything for any other team in the nfl ever...

oh wait....'value'....aka 'it risky, oh noes'

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-11-2012, 10:37 AM
Jason Campbell 2.0 really worth the number 1 Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ILB make me wet??

O.city
12-11-2012, 10:38 AM
Draft Value, with the new CBA, is basically out the window.


You essentially are paying a top 5 pick now, what you payed what a late first early second rounder previously?

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 10:38 AM
i'm trying to figure out why we can't draft a QB because Luck was drafted last year...or how it has any bearing at all on anything for any other team in the nfl ever...

oh wait....'value'....aka 'it risky, oh noes'

Didn't you hear?

Andrew Luck is the end-all of QBs.

They're going to get rid of the position since Luck is the only one good enough to play it.

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-11-2012, 10:39 AM
Heh, I'm gonna laugh when Denver spends a 1st on Collin Klein

the Talking Can
12-11-2012, 10:40 AM
it's just a higher brow version of "QB X isn't good enough for the Chiefs"

every year...the QBs aren't good enough

every year, we should have drafted a QB last year

it's risky, ya know

Brock
12-11-2012, 10:40 AM
it's just a higher brow version of "QB X isn't good enough for the Chiefs"

every year...the QBs aren't good enough

every year, we should have drafted a QB last year

it's risky, ya know

Wait till next year, there's a better class coming out.

SNR
12-11-2012, 10:42 AM
it's just a higher brow version of "QB X isn't good enough for the Chiefs"

every year...the QBs aren't good enough

every year, we should have drafted a QB last year

it's risky, ya know

Careful. Baby Lee will come in and wizard you to death with this bullshit sophistry

Pestilence
12-11-2012, 10:42 AM
Does somebody want to take the bait on this?

Andrew Luck is the best overall QB to enter the draft in a long, long time.

Is he the best QB to enter the draft to be the best at every aspect of playing the position in a long, long, time? In other words, is it possible that there's a QB who is better than him at a particular part of the position other than athletic ability?

That's what I can't get over. Luck is great because he has no glaring flaws. He's not great because he's the greatest at EVERYTHING. He's not.

His arm strength wouldn't really be classified as "elite". It's above average.....but not tops in the NFL.

ChiTown
12-11-2012, 10:42 AM
Wait till next year, there's a better class coming out.

~KCC Since 1984

O.city
12-11-2012, 10:42 AM
Say you take teo and he becomes the best player at his position in the league. Where does that put the Chiefs, best case scenario?


The best WR in the league was once on a team that didn't win a single game. The best or one of the best LT's in the league is on a team that's been having top 10 picks since he's been in the league.

Look at the best most consistent teams in the league and tell me what they have in common.

ChiefsandO'sfan
12-11-2012, 10:43 AM
Benjamin Allbright ‏@NFLDraftMonster

Kiper and Brooks now both calling Glennon a top 1-2 QB...just don't see it off the tape. He's got tools, but so inconsistent.

FringeNC
12-11-2012, 10:44 AM
We have to take a QB in round 1 -- not just because we don't have a legit QB, but to sell 2013 season tickets. Whoever we take with the 1st or 2nd or whatever pick will be the face of the franchise for the season ticket sales ad blitz.

O.city
12-11-2012, 10:46 AM
I'm waiting to see how Mayock breaks the QB class down.

Braincase
12-11-2012, 10:47 AM
I wish we could "bank" this pick for a year, pickup the last pick of the first round, then have the #1 overall for the following draft, plus whatever draft pick we have after the 2013 season.

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-11-2012, 10:48 AM
Bucky Brooks lol

Pestilence
12-11-2012, 10:48 AM
I wish we could "bank" this pick for a year, pickup the last pick of the first round, then have the #1 overall for the following draft, plus whatever draft pick we have after the 2013 season.

:spock:

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-11-2012, 10:48 AM
I wish we could "bank" this pick for a year, pickup the last pick of the first round, then have the #1 overall for the following draft, plus whatever draft pick we have after the 2013 season.

:#

Brock
12-11-2012, 10:49 AM
All we have to do is go through another year like this one and we can draft Johnny Manziel!

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 10:51 AM
We have to take a QB in round 1 -- not just because we don't have a legit QB, but to sell 2013 season tickets. Whoever we take with the 1st or 2nd or whatever pick will be the face of the franchise for the season ticket sales ad blitz.

Yep.

Clark isn't dumb.

A 1st-round QB would instantly energize the ticket buying base.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 10:51 AM
All we have to do is go through another year like this one and we can draft Johnny Manziel!

ROFL

Hoover
12-11-2012, 10:51 AM
I don't think this QB class is all that bad either.

I'll take a 6'3" QB that completed 70% of his passes for 4000 yards and threw 40 TDs and 6 INTs. I don't really understand what's to debate. Geno blows away J. Russell when you look at the stats. I think the difference is that Russell came out of LSU and Geno plays for WV. Geno is basically all his team has, while JR played on a team loaded with talent on both sides of the ball.

I'll be thrilled when the Chiefs draft Geno Smith. The Chiefs also need to do everything they can to resign Albert and Bowe. If that happens Smith would be landing in an awesome situation from the get-go. I doubt there has been any other #1 draft pick that would have landed in such a good situation.

OzarksChiefsFan
12-11-2012, 10:54 AM
Teo #1 and Bray in the second round.

O.city
12-11-2012, 10:55 AM
This is one reason I think the KC job might actually be pretty enticing to bigger names.


You have the first overall pick, likely. So you can get your QB

LT is in place, potentially two top notch pass rushers are in place, and a franchise WR can still be in place.

You have your building blocks. Which makes it all the more frustrating to what Pioli has done.

He's put an absolutely awful coaching staff in place to develop the guys he's actually drafted/brought in.

O.city
12-11-2012, 10:56 AM
IF you come in my thread and say you want a TED backer at #1 overall, you can go Belcher yourself.

ILChief
12-11-2012, 10:57 AM
Kiper losing his mind. Pimping mike Glennon and Logan Thomas as top QBs in the draft

O.city
12-11-2012, 11:00 AM
If Petrino stays out of trouble and WVU's defense is even respectable this year, Geno and Wilson are being pimped pretty hard right now.


Hell if WVU's d held against TCU and OU, Geno is the consensus #1.

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-11-2012, 11:00 AM
Kiper is a buffoon

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 11:02 AM
Kiper losing his mind. Pimping mike Glennon and Logan Thomas as top QBs in the draft

If you read the scouting message boards, lots of people like Glennon a lot. He's got everything you want really except consistency.

Logan Thomas? ROFL People see his physical stature and confuse him with Cam Newton. He doesn't have NEAR the arm.

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-11-2012, 11:05 AM
I'll be honest. I haven't seen enough of Glennon to form a legit opinion. Seems like only 1 dude here like him.

the Talking Can
12-11-2012, 11:07 AM
somewhere an uncle is masturbating into black bob's mouth

SNR
12-11-2012, 11:11 AM
I wish we could "bank" this pick for a year, pickup the last pick of the first round, then have the #1 overall for the following draft, plus whatever draft pick we have after the 2013 season.

So we can select.... whom?

If you think this QB is terrible, then 2014's will be the worst piece of shit you've ever seen.

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-11-2012, 11:12 AM
somewhere an uncle is masturbating into black bob's mouth

ROFL

FAX
12-11-2012, 11:12 AM
This is one reason I think the KC job might actually be pretty enticing to bigger names.


You have the first overall pick, likely. So you can get your QB

LT is in place, potentially two top notch pass rushers are in place, and a franchise WR can still be in place.

You have your building blocks. Which makes it all the more frustrating to what Pioli has done.

He's put an absolutely awful coaching staff in place to develop the guys he's actually drafted/brought in.

Truly stated, Mr. o.city ... with one minor correction ... Pioli hasn't actually drafted/brought in those building blocks you mentioned (LT, 2 top-notch pass rushers, franchise WR). With the exception of Houston and the janitor, he hasn't drafted/brought in a franchise anything.

FAX

SNR
12-11-2012, 11:16 AM
I'll be honest. I haven't seen enough of Glennon to form a legit opinion. Seems like only 1 dude here like him.

And that dude was BlackBob

O.city
12-11-2012, 11:17 AM
Truly stated, Mr. o.city ... with one minor correction ... Pioli hasn't actually drafted/brought in those building blocks you mentioned (LT, 2 top-notch pass rushers, franchise WR). With the exception of Houston and the janitor, he hasn't drafted/brought in a franchise anything.

FAX

Somewhat true.


Some of the draft picks/ FA pickups he's made I've liked, but they haven't done much of anything.

Which is a reason I'd argue that this coaching staff isn't doing anything for anyone.

RUSH
12-11-2012, 11:18 AM
So we can select.... whom?

If you think this QB is terrible, then 2014's will be the worst piece of shit you've ever seen.

Yup. Bridgewater is pretty much it and he might not even come out next year. I expect Bray to declare this year.

Might be the first time in a while that a QB doesn't go #1. Clowney might have that on lock, but there's a lot of time.

Bump
12-11-2012, 11:23 AM
here is a Chiefs fan on reddit and his take on what we should do about QB. I swear Chiefs fans are fucking stupid!

I want Vince Young. The dude is a competitor, he can win games, and I'm assuming he has been humbled by the fact he's been sitting out a year. Hopefully this means he can be picked up for cheap. Sign him to a one year deal and tell him to put up or shut up. This allows us to use our first picks to solidify other positions. We could then maybe pick up a late round QB and let him develop for a year.

Other options include Flynn, Colt McCoy, David Garrard, and Brett Favre of course.

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-11-2012, 11:27 AM
And that dude was BlackBob

I thought it was that RunKC dude.

SNR
12-11-2012, 11:28 AM
I thought it was that RunKC dude.

You're not helping the situation

bevischief
12-11-2012, 11:31 AM
here is a Chiefs fan on reddit and his take on what we should do about QB. I swear Chiefs fans are ****ing stupid!

I want Vince Young. The dude is a competitor, he can win games, and I'm assuming he has been humbled by the fact he's been sitting out a year. Hopefully this means he can be picked up for cheap. Sign him to a one year deal and tell him to put up or shut up. This allows us to use our first picks to solidify other positions. We could then maybe pick up a late round QB and let him develop for a year.

Other options include Flynn, Colt McCoy, David Garrard, and Brett Favre of course.

:banghead::banghead:%(/:facepalm::facepalm:

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-11-2012, 11:32 AM
You're not helping the situation

Oh, I'm helping it :D

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 11:32 AM
here is a Chiefs fan on reddit and his take on what we should do about QB. I swear Chiefs fans are ****ing stupid!

I want Vince Young. The dude is a competitor, he can win games, and I'm assuming he has been humbled by the fact he's been sitting out a year. Hopefully this means he can be picked up for cheap. Sign him to a one year deal and tell him to put up or shut up. This allows us to use our first picks to solidify other positions. We could then maybe pick up a late round QB and let him develop for a year.

Other options include Flynn, Colt McCoy, David Garrard, and Brett Favre of course.

ROFL ROFL ROFL

suds79
12-11-2012, 11:32 AM
Teo #1 and Bray in the second round.

:facepalm:

The stats don't lie.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-J3CV-OuyOLQ/T6GHsWy3TAI/AAAAAAAACYg/ifGdEUDdlyQ/s637/SBwinningQBs.jpg

O.city
12-11-2012, 11:34 AM
Most Chief fans are scared of the unknown.

They know that with a retread there is a chance that we could get back to 9-7 and possible playoffs.

They don't know that if you draft and develop your own guy, you can be what the Packers, Steelers, Pats, Broncos, Colts, etc are.

They are just scared.

But that shits gonna end real quick. Because when we trot out our new shiny first round QB next year, if they start questioning whoever it is too quick, CP will start flying banners to shut the dumbass true fans up.

mdchiefsfan
12-11-2012, 11:40 AM
Draft Value, with the new CBA, is basically out the window.


You essentially are paying a top 5 pick now, what you payed what a late first early second rounder previously?

This

mdchiefsfan
12-11-2012, 11:43 AM
:facepalm:

The stats don't lie.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-J3CV-OuyOLQ/T6GHsWy3TAI/AAAAAAAACYg/ifGdEUDdlyQ/s637/SBwinningQBs.jpg

Oh how I would love a red and gold G. Smith jersey in this picture.

Bump
12-11-2012, 11:47 AM
Oh how I would love a red and gold G. Smith jersey in this picture.

BUT BUT BUT it's too risky! OH NOES, Geno = Jemarcus


/chiefs fans everywhere else but here.

Bewbies
12-11-2012, 11:47 AM
That chart is gold.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 11:54 AM
Adam Teicher says there are no good options for the Chiefs at QB. This is a "horrible, horrible year" to need a QB.

Petro asked him what the Chiefs should do at QB and he actually said "hope the Broncos cut Peyton Manning".

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 11:55 AM
Now they're talking about trading down.

SNR
12-11-2012, 11:56 AM
Adam Teicher says there are no good options for the Chiefs at QB. This is a "horrible, horrible year" to need a QB.

Petro asked him what the Chiefs should do at QB and he actually said "hope the Broncos cut Peyton Manning".

Adam Teicher gets paid to report football (often 48 hours too late). He doesn't get paid to know about football, because he doesn't.

Bewbies
12-11-2012, 11:57 AM
Adam Teicher says there are no good options for the Chiefs at QB. This is a "horrible, horrible year" to need a QB.

Petro asked him what the Chiefs should do at QB and he actually said "hope the Broncos cut Peyton Manning".

Has dude ever watched a football game? LMAO

Bewbies
12-11-2012, 11:58 AM
Now they're talking about trading down.

I'd do that if it meant we moved to #2 and the Jags wanted Jarvis Jones.

ChiefsCountry
12-11-2012, 12:00 PM
Reading SaveOurChiefs facebook page makes me want to go on a jihad. People are so fucking stupid.

keg in kc
12-11-2012, 12:01 PM
Let's say there isn't an Andrew Luck.

80% of Andrew Luck is better than drafting any other position.

ChiTown
12-11-2012, 12:07 PM
:facepalm:

The stats don't lie.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-J3CV-OuyOLQ/T6GHsWy3TAI/AAAAAAAACYg/ifGdEUDdlyQ/s637/SBwinningQBs.jpg

:clap:

1st rd qb in the '13 Draft for the Chiefs or die in a fire.

Sorter
12-11-2012, 12:07 PM
Reading SaveOurChiefs facebook page makes me want to go on a jihad. People are so ****ing stupid.

LMAO

Reerun_KC
12-11-2012, 12:09 PM
Reading SaveOurChiefs facebook page makes me want to go on a jihad. People are so ****ing stupid.

that place is a cesspool for stupid anymore....

It needs a colorox bath...

bevischief
12-11-2012, 12:15 PM
Reading SaveOurChiefs facebook page makes me want to go on a jihad. People are so ****ing stupid.

Nuke it from orbit the only way to be sure.

SNR
12-11-2012, 12:15 PM
Reading SaveOurChiefs facebook page makes me want to go on a jihad. People are so fucking stupid.

I ventured over there and tried to bring some reason to their clueless party. Something tells me that was a futile attempt on my part

ROYC75
12-11-2012, 12:16 PM
Adam Teicher says there are no good options for the Chiefs at QB. This is a "horrible, horrible year" to need a QB.

Petro asked him what the Chiefs should do at QB and he actually said "hope the Broncos cut Peyton Manning".

For all practical purposes, Teicher is an idiot.

This years QB class is arguably the best overall in a very long time top to bottom. Nothing elite at this time but many, very many serviceable QB's with a good number having the ability to have a good NFL career.

It's been a very long tome since we have seen so many QB's that will grade out so close to each other.

MahiMike
12-11-2012, 12:22 PM
"So, you wanna argue that this isn't a year to take a QB? I'll argue that its a great year to take a QB."

There are only 2 reasons why it's a great year - rookie salary cap and the fact that we're desperate.

We'd draft the top QB from sister Mary's middle school if she could throw 20 yards.

Sorter
12-11-2012, 12:26 PM
I ventured over there and tried to bring some reason to their clueless party. Something tells me that was a futile attempt on my part

I actually just went and looked at it.

JFC. We have the most ignorant fans of all time.

Dayze
12-11-2012, 12:29 PM
KC tailgates are the BEST!

Reerun_KC
12-11-2012, 12:29 PM
I actually just went and looked at it.

JFC. We have the most ignorant fans of all time.

This......

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 12:45 PM
I'd do that if it meant we moved to #2 and the Jags wanted Jarvis Jones.

They were talking about us having the #2 pick (Teicher doesn't think we'll have the #1 pick) and doing what the Rams did...

Hoover
12-11-2012, 12:50 PM
He's an idiot.

The Rams could move because they had a young QB they used the first overall pick on and chose to stick with him. Chiefs situation is totally different.

O.city
12-11-2012, 12:53 PM
If the Chiefs don't draft Geno, I hope he turns into Rodgers. This fanbase needs that thrown in it's face.


The Chiefs don't deserve a franchise qb.

Mr. Laz
12-11-2012, 01:09 PM
If the Chiefs don't draft Geno, I hope he turns into Rodgers. This fanbase needs that thrown in it's face.


The Chiefs don't deserve a franchise qb.
yes, the fanbase needs more thrown in it's face.



Being a Chiefs' fan has just been too easy ... spoiled.

Bewbies
12-11-2012, 01:19 PM
They were talking about us having the #2 pick (Teicher doesn't think we'll have the #1 pick) and doing what the Rams did...

I see why he ventured into sports reporting and stayed clear of any area that required use of his brain.

Brock
12-11-2012, 01:22 PM
yes, the fanbase needs more thrown in it's face.



Being a Chiefs' fan has just been too easy ... spoiled.

Not spoiled, just brainwashed with low expectations.

ChiefsandO'sfan
12-11-2012, 01:32 PM
It's about that time of year. ESPN's NFL Draft guru Mel Kiper talked with reporters about the 2013 NFL Draft and had some intriguing things to say, especially about the quarterbacks.

Here's what people are saying about the conference call...

The quarterbacks

Kiper believes #WVU QB Geno Smith will be battling to be the second quarterback off the board in the NFL draft.
— Jenn Menendez (@JennMenendez) December 11, 2012

On conference call with reporters, Mel Kiper just said NC State's Mike Glennon could be top quarterback drafted, possible top-15 pick
— Dave Matter (@Dave_Matter) December 11, 2012

ESPN's Mel Kiper says he sees Tennessee QB Tyler Bray in a 2nd- or 3rd-round range if he leaves. added that Vols OL is filled with 'studs.'
— Patrick Brown (@patrickbrownTFP) December 11, 2012

Kiper on Tyler Bray: "I'd like to see him go back to Tennessee for another year." Throws too many bad INTs. Probably 3rd Rd if he comes out
— Dave Matter (@Dave_Matter) December 11, 2012

Kiper: VT's Logan Thomas is most talented QB in this draft.
— Dave Matter (@Dave_Matter) December 11, 2012

Just asked Mel Kiper about #UGA QB Aaron Murray: "I would go back for another year. In big games he's struggled. 2nd/3rd rd pick"
— Zach Klein (@ZachKleinWSB) December 11, 2012

ESPN draft, hair guru Mel Kiper Jr. said Vols QB Tyler Bray could be top-5 overall pick if he returns for senior season.
— Wes Rucker (@wesrucker247) December 11, 2012

O.city
12-11-2012, 01:57 PM
yes, the fanbase needs more thrown in it's face.



Being a Chiefs' fan has just been too easy ... spoiled.

Laz, every year it's been "oh noes it's too risky" then later it's "we should have drafted this guy"


We have to many gutless fans who are fine with a good game day experience and a mediocre team that wins some games.


They don't deserve shit.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 02:06 PM
So Petro spent the last half hour talking about bringing in Joe Flacco.

He said flat out that he thought Joe Flacco was pretty meh (a "Brad Johnson" type is the comparison he made) but thought it was the best move the Chiefs could make.

He doesn't think Smith or Barkley are worth 1st-pick money - I wonder if he even considered the new CBA.

ChiefsandO'sfan
12-11-2012, 02:07 PM
Flacco is awful.

the Talking Can
12-11-2012, 02:13 PM
So Petro spent the last half hour talking about bringing in Joe Flacco.

He said flat out that he thought Joe Flacco was pretty meh (a "Brad Johnson" type is the comparison he made) but thought it was the best move the Chiefs could make.

He doesn't think Smith or Barkley are worth 1st-pick money - I wonder if he even considered the new CBA.


he's a fucking idiot, like most of this fanbase

Buckweath
12-11-2012, 02:18 PM
So Petro spent the last half hour talking about bringing in Joe Flacco.

He said flat out that he thought Joe Flacco was pretty meh (a "Brad Johnson" type is the comparison he made) but thought it was the best move the Chiefs could make.

He doesn't think Smith or Barkley are worth 1st-pick money - I wonder if he even considered the new CBA.

Last time the Chiefs drafted a guy who was worth the #1 overall pick... Glenn Dorsey. Dorsey was probably as good a prospect as any defensive player in this draft. See what I mean??

People just need to understand that in the same way that you would never draft in the 1st round the best fullback prospect ever, you can easily take the best available QB prospect at #1 overall even if he is not a top 10 overall prospect. The QB position nowadays has HUGE value... more than you think.

Some will think I'm crazy but I'll tell you this... if given the choice between drafting 3 out of Jones, Lotulelei, Teo, Loeckel, Allen ... or drafting Geno Smith, I'd take Smith without hesitation because it's all irrelevant as long as you don't have the top QB and the sooner you can find that QB the better and that's not even talking about how a top QB makes your whole team better.

People say Geno Smith is no Griffin III or Luck, it's probably true, but really the next time there will come as good a prospect as those guys, the Chiefs won't be in position to draft him just like last year. You take Geno Smith and no ifs and buts.

whoman69
12-11-2012, 02:21 PM
On a recent poll 85% of CP members agreed that its QB or Bust in the first round this year.

Mr. Laz
12-11-2012, 02:28 PM
Laz, every year it's been "oh noes it's too risky" then later it's "we should have drafted this guy"

We have to many gutless fans who are fine with a good game day experience and a mediocre team that wins some games.

They don't deserve shit.
I think every fan wants a better QB

Just because they aren't QB or bust, you get pissed.

even then, the number of those fans is so small.


Fan on Fan crime is the leading offense in Chiefs Nation


I think we should get a big group of guys and walk Arrowhead. Anyone found to be actually cheering the team should be deemed an enemy of the state and beaten until they bleed. Power to the PEOPLE!!!!

wazu
12-11-2012, 02:36 PM
Reading SaveOurChiefs facebook page makes me want to go on a jihad. People are so fucking stupid.

Only thing worse is listening to KC talk radio. Callers and hosts very rarely even mention Geno as a possiblity. If a player is named it's almost always Barkley, and most often people are saying Teo. A substantial population calling for Alex. Fucking. Smith. Really. And an increasing number of mentions of Flacco. Today Bob Fescoe talked for like 30 minutes about whether or not the Chiefs should try to orchestrate a trade for Kirk Cousins.

Just kill me now.

ROYC75
12-11-2012, 02:36 PM
So Petro spent the last half hour talking about bringing in Joe Flacco.

He said flat out that he thought Joe Flacco was pretty meh (a "Brad Johnson" type is the comparison he made) but thought it was the best move the Chiefs could make.

He doesn't think Smith or Barkley are worth 1st-pick money - I wonder if he even considered the new CBA.

UH, NO!

Smith & /or Wilson is / will be better than Flacco.

Barkley ..... no comment.

King_Chief_Fan
12-11-2012, 02:37 PM
If the Chiefs don't draft Geno, I hope he turns into Rodgers. This fanbase needs that thrown in it's face.


The Chiefs don't deserve a franchise qb.

If the Chiefs don't draft him I hope he turns into Jamarus Russel. Then we won't feel so bad

philfree
12-11-2012, 02:38 PM
If the Chiefs don't draft Geno, I hope he turns into Rodgers. This fanbase needs that thrown in it's face.


The Chiefs don't deserve a franchise qb.


The fans don't do the drafting so I don't get this kind of statement.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 03:02 PM
I think every fan wants a better QB

Just because they aren't QB or bust, you get pissed.

even then, the number of those fans is so small.


Fan on Fan crime is the leading offense in Chiefs Nation


I think we should get a big group of guys and walk Arrowhead. Anyone found to be actually cheering the team should be deemed an enemy of the state and beaten until they bleed. Power to the PEOPLE!!!!

It IS QB or bust.

If you don't take a QB, who are you going to take?

For all the talk about the QBs in this draft not being worth a #1 overall pick, who else is?

The answer is NOBODY. This is a deep draft but there isn't much, if any, blue chip talent at the high-value positions.

kcbubb
12-11-2012, 03:32 PM
UH, NO!

Smith & /or Wilson is / will be better than Flacco.

Barkley ..... no comment.

Tyler Wilson is the next Brian Brohm. Petrino coached QB's often look better in college than they do on Sundays. We should definitely take a QB high, but I really don't know which one. I just know it doesn't need to be Wilson.

Brock
12-11-2012, 03:35 PM
I think every fan wants a better QB

Just because they aren't QB or bust, you get pissed.

even then, the number of those fans is so small.


Fan on Fan crime is the leading offense in Chiefs Nation


I think we should get a big group of guys and walk Arrowhead. Anyone found to be actually cheering the team should be deemed an enemy of the state and beaten until they bleed. Power to the PEOPLE!!!!

LMAO

Bump
12-11-2012, 03:38 PM
If the Chiefs don't draft him I hope he turns into Jamarus Russel. Then we won't feel so bad

no, because than everybody will be even more scared to draft a QB and it will never ever happen.

The Chiefs fans are like the 40-yr old virgin with drafting a first round QB. They wanted it when they were younger, they wanted it bad and fantasized about it all the time, then months go by without it and months become years and then all of the sudden you are 40 and it just never happened. You're used to the way things are and have been and scared of change. So your desire goes away completely and then turns into fear.

O.city
12-11-2012, 03:40 PM
I think every fan wants a better QB

Just because they aren't QB or bust, you get pissed.

even then, the number of those fans is so small.


Fan on Fan crime is the leading offense in Chiefs Nation


I think we should get a big group of guys and walk Arrowhead. Anyone found to be actually cheering the team should be deemed an enemy of the state and beaten until they bleed. Power to the PEOPLE!!!!

The number of those fans are small? Thats most of Chiefs nation.

They just want the next retread who can win a few games and maybe get us to 9 wins.

Arrowhead Experience!!!! Catch the fever.

O.city
12-11-2012, 03:42 PM
The fans don't do the drafting so I don't get this kind of statement.

The fans don't do the drafting, thats correct.


But the fans do the "show up in masses for years while we continually do the same thing that doesn't work".

It's taken the fanbase this long to make noise that we aren't happy.

O.city
12-11-2012, 03:47 PM
Guarantee if this were last year and we were in this position, the general fan would find fault with Luck.


We would have been scared shitless about his "lack of armstrength" or some BS.


This is the same group that didn't want Matt Stafford or Matt Ryan.

Mr. Laz
12-11-2012, 03:47 PM
The number of those fans are small? Thats most of Chiefs nation.

They just want the next retread who can win a few games and maybe get us to 9 wins.

Arrowhead Experience!!!! Catch the fever.I disagree

I would say that there are large % of Chiefs' fans that aren't extreme like yourself but 99.9999 of them want a franchise QB.

Your Tea Party-esque stance on the issue is more about you then them.

Baby Lee
12-11-2012, 03:48 PM
For anybody of the mindset of "Well just grab the best QB with that 1st pick in round 2"

I think the recent history suggest what a big difference there is between the 1st QB projected vs the 3rd best guy which is what you'll get if you wait until the 3rd pick in the draft
/CP

O.city
12-11-2012, 03:49 PM
I disagree

I would say that there are large % of Chiefs' fans that aren't extreme like yourself but 99.9999 of them want a franchise QB.

Your Tea Party-esque stance on the issue is more about you then them.

Ok, I'm not necessarily arguing that they don't want one.


It's how they think we need to get one that they are all fucked up about.

Mr. Laz
12-11-2012, 03:58 PM
If you combine last and this year's QB class you would find that the best of this year's class would be fighting to be the 3,4 or 5th ranked QB. Most of the draftubators didn't want Tannehill even at #12 and this year he would be challenging for the top QB spot.

*** And that's not even counting Russell Wilson who's real NFL production should put him #3

1. Luck
2. RGIII
3. Geno Smith
4. Tannehill
5. Weeden
6. Tyler Wilson
7. Barkley
8. Bray
9. Osweiler
10. Russell Wilson ***

I have already said that the Chiefs don't have much of a choice. They take Geno Smith or Tyler Wilson and HOPE that they live up to their potential.

Doesn't mean i can't understand people's doubt about the QB position this year though.

O.city
12-11-2012, 04:00 PM
Thats the thing Laz, you can't put NFL production in there, because you don't know what this years class will be NFL.

Mr. Laz
12-11-2012, 04:00 PM
Ok, I'm not necessarily arguing that they don't want one.

It's how they think we need to get one that they are all ****ed up about.
which is a simple disagreement, not an insult or declaration of war.

Yet you rage about the subject all the time


Chillax

Mr. Laz
12-11-2012, 04:01 PM
Thats the thing Laz, you can't put NFL production in there, because you don't know what this years class will be NFL.
i know which is why i left Russel Wilson at 10 even though he has clearly been more productive than others.

ranking wise you can see the issue people have ......... if you choose to

DeezNutz
12-11-2012, 04:02 PM
If you combine last and this year's QB class you would find that the best of this year's class would be fighting to be the 3,4 or 5th ranked QB. Most of the draftubators didn't want Tannehill even at #12 and this year he would be challenging for the top QB spot.

*** And that's not even counting Russell Wilson who's real NFL production should put him #3

1. Luck
2. RGIII
3. Geno Smith
4. Tannehill
5. Weeden
6. Tyler Wilson
7. Barkley
8. Bray
9. Osweiler
10. Russell Wilson ***

I have already said that the Chiefs don't have much of a choice. They take Geno Smith or Tyler Wilson and HOPE that they live up to their potential.

Doesn't mean i can't understand people's doubt about the QB position this year though.

No chance Weeden would be ranked higher than Wilson.

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-11-2012, 04:03 PM
T.Wilson > Tannehill

R. Wilson>>>>>>Assweiler

O.city
12-11-2012, 04:03 PM
Like I said in the OP, last years QB class is the anomaly.


This years class is as good or better than nearly every previous class.

the Talking Can
12-11-2012, 04:05 PM
If you combine last and this year's QB class you would find that the best of this year's class would be fighting to be the 3,4 or 5th ranked QB. Most of the draftubators didn't want Tannehill even at #12 and this year he would be challenging for the top QB spot.

*** And that's not even counting Russell Wilson who's real NFL production should put him #3

1. Luck
2. RGIII
3. Geno Smith
4. Tannehill
5. Weeden
6. Tyler Wilson
7. Barkley
8. Bray
9. Osweiler
10. Russell Wilson ***

I have already said that the Chiefs don't have much of a choice. They take Geno Smith or Tyler Wilson and HOPE that they live up to their potential.

Doesn't mean i can't understand people's doubt about the QB position this year though.

actually, 'drafturbators' did want tannehill...or at least a loud crew - of which i was one - and who i assume you mean by that

second, Wilson is absolutely the prospect that Tannehill is...and Weeden is old geezer i wouldn't even rank due to age..

being 3rd and 4th behind Luck and RG3 (who most people here didn't think was great, and wouldn't have traded for) is not a knock...

people are just using Luck for cover for the same old "it's risky" and "he's not good enough" bullshit that happens every fucking year from a fanbase full of pussies...

what the fuck else would Geno Smith need to do - EXACTLY - to be 'not risky' for this fanbase?

i would really like to know...

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-11-2012, 04:06 PM
Sadly from what I've heard from fans IRL...have a different skin color.

O.city
12-11-2012, 04:07 PM
CP is the 1% of hardcore fans.


The other 99% are the ones who listen to Kiper or whoever and just go along with what they are told. It's how this franchise got by for so long trotting out the Damon Huards of the world.

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-11-2012, 04:08 PM
That's true. Many think Klein is going to be picked 1st just because he was nominated for the Heisman.

Baby Lee
12-11-2012, 04:13 PM
Laz, every year it's been "oh noes it's too risky" then later it's "we should have drafted this guy"


We have to many gutless fans who are fine with a good game day experience and a mediocre team that wins some games.


They don't deserve shit.

1. the 'too risky' part is vastly overstated.

2. the 'should have drafted' part has two sources, somebody has a couple decent games, or a decent drive or two, and Cassel continues to play with his own poop.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 04:14 PM
I disagree

I would say that there are large % of Chiefs' fans that aren't extreme like yourself but 99.9999 of them want a franchise QB.

Your Tea Party-esque stance on the issue is more about you then them.

Listening to radio callers the last few days, I think he's closer to the truth than you are.

It's about 70/30 people wanting to draft Manti or pick up Alex Smith vs. people who want to draft a QB.

Pestilence
12-11-2012, 04:16 PM
I would HATE the Te'o pick. That should tell you everything you need to know.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 04:16 PM
Keitzman spent the 2nd half of the 3 oclock hour saying that people that don't want to draft a QB because "there aren't any worth the #1 pick" are being silly.

Even he knows the Chiefs HAVE to take a QB.

O.city
12-11-2012, 04:18 PM
So if there isn't a QB worth the #1 overall pick, who is worth it?

The reward is absolutely worth the risk, when talking about QB's.

O.city
12-11-2012, 04:21 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7352016/2012-nfl-draft-big-board-adds-new-target

Kipers Big board, 1 year ago Friday.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 04:23 PM
So if there isn't a QB worth the #1 overall pick, who is worth it?

I asked someone this question earlier.

The answer I got was "trade down".

Strongside
12-11-2012, 04:23 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7352016/2012-nfl-draft-big-board-adds-new-target

Kipers Big board, 1 year ago Friday.

Yeah, they're still trying to get us to pay for something that's a year old. Fuck ESPN.

suds79
12-11-2012, 04:23 PM
Keitzman spent the 2nd half of the 3 oclock hour saying that people that don't want to draft a QB because "there aren't any worth the #1 pick" are being silly.

Even he knows the Chiefs HAVE to take a QB.

He's been on the "this league is all/only about the QB" bandwagon for some time now.

I don't like his show but he's spot on here.

I remember him getting into it with Scott after the draft saying that he'd trade the Chiefs entire draft for Andrew Luck. Scott laughed it off saying he wishes Kevin was the GM for the Broncos then.

Yeah who has egg on their face now?

O.city
12-11-2012, 04:25 PM
1Andrew Luck *AGE: 22DOB: 9/12/89HT: 6-4WT: 235POS: QB
Comp 261Att 373Pct 70.0Yds 3,170TD 35Int 9
Luck was unable to show off all he can do given the talent around him in 2011, but he is the total package: arm strength, size, smarts, demeanor. He remains my pick to go No. 1 overall and could unseat Peyton Manning in Indy.

LAST WEEK: 1 | PLAYER CARD

2Matt Kalil *AGE: 22DOB: 7/6/89HT: 6-7WT: 295POS: OT
GP 12GS 12
Kalil was steady the entire season and has the full range of skills for the left tackle position, not to mention the pedigree. He could opt to return to USC, but I won't shift guys until final declarations are locked in.

LAST WEEK: 2 | PLAYER CARD

3Trent Richardson *AGE: 20DOB: 7/10/91HT: 5-11WT: 224POS: RB
Car 263Yds 1,583Avg. 6.0TD 20
The BCS title game should be his final one in college. Richardson's splitting carries in his first two seasons will benefit him. Powerful, fast, with improved vision, he runs with good pad level and breaks tackles with ease.

LAST WEEK: 3 | PLAYER CARD

4Justin Blackmon *AGE: 21DOB: 1/9/90HT: 6-1WT: 208POS: WR
Rec 113Yds 1,336Avg 11.8TD 15
Blackmon had a remarkable regular season, eclipsing his 111 catches of a year ago. A better prospect than recent OSU star Dez Bryant. Versatile and explosive and really works to get open. Great ball skills; breaks tackles.

LAST WEEK: 4 | PLAYER CARD

5Morris Claiborne *AGE: 21DOB: 2/7/90HT: 6-1WT: 185POS: CB
Tkl 46Sack 0Int 6
Doesn't get the attention, but he's a very good player. Big rise in 2011; now the top corner. Exceptional pure cover corner with impeccable instincts at the position. Has solid ball skills for the position. Not a burner; plenty quick.

LAST WEEK: 5 | PLAYER CARD


6Matt Barkley *AGE: 21DOB: 9/8/90HT: 6-2WT: 220POS: QB
Comp 308Att 446Pct 69.1Yds 3,528TD 39Int 7
Faces a tough decision. Closed the year remarkably well. Accurate and showing growth year-to-year. Throwing a better ball and throws it really well on the move. Good, not great, arm. Pro-style skills are valued, even as offenses change.

LAST WEEK: 6 | PLAYER CARD

7Jonathan Martin *AGE: 22DOB: 7/6/89HT: 6-6WT: 304POS: OT
GP 12GS 12
Martin can technically go back to school, as a fourth-year junior. Trusted in the passing game as the blindside protection for Luck, Martin does a great job in the run game, given his athleticism.

LAST WEEK: 7 | PLAYER CARD

8Quinton CoplesAGE: 21DOB: 6/22/90HT: 6-6WT: 285POS: DE
Tkl 51Sack 7.5Int 0
Production isn't amazing, but skill set is hard to look past. The size and talent are there, but he'll need to add to his arsenal with increased blocking attention. Great size and length to hold the edge as a 4-3 defensive end.

LAST WEEK: 8 | PLAYER CARD

9Riley Reiff *AGE: 23DOB: 12/1/88HT: 6-6WT: 300POS: OT
GP 12GS 12
Not as athletic as Kalil or Martin, but the tape is there -- it may be the best tape of any LT this year because he's so complete. Durable, he has played from day one at Iowa.

LAST WEEK: 9 | PLAYER CARD

10Luke Kuechly *AGE: 20DOB: 4/20/91HT: 6-3WT: 237POS: LB
Tkl 191Sack 0.0Int 3
Great instincts both against the run and even dropping his hips and falling into coverage. Dependable, a tackling machine, he makes great reads, sees the play develop and sheds blockers well. Solid status.

LAST WEEK: 10 | PLAYER CARD

11Robert Griffin III *AGE: 21DOB: 2/12/90HT: 6-1WT: 220POS: QB
Comp 267Att 369Pct 72.4Yds 3,998TD 36Int 6
Not buying any talk he'd be higher on some boards than Luck, but his elite athleticism and altered delivery has resulted in better accuracy on downfield throws. Great kid, underrated passer. No ill effects from 2009 knee injury. Remarkable numbers.

LAST WEEK: 11 | PLAYER CARD

12Alshon Jeffery *AGE: 21DOB: 2/14/90HT: 6-4WT: 233POS: WR
Rec 45Yds 614Avg 13.6TD 7
His production took a hit with South Carolina's turmoil at the QB position, but he had a good rep already. Imposing presence, a matchup nightmare. Phenomenal hands, decent burst, elite size. Speed is a bit of a question.

LAST WEEK: 12 | PLAYER CARD

13Landry Jones *AGE: 22DOB: 4/22/89HT: 6-4WT: 229POS: QB
Comp 339Att 537Pct 63.1Yds 4,302TD 28Int 14
I still like the way he's battled in 2011, but it's fair to say his reputation outpaced his performance this season. Accuracy is still very good. Good size, strong arm but needs to improve footwork. Still a very good prospect.

LAST WEEK: 14 | PLAYER CARD

14Brandon ThompsonAGE: 22DOB: 10/19/89HT: 6-2WT: 310POS: DT
Tkl 45Sack 2.5Int 0
Scheme-versatile, Thompson might not get the sacks but manages to be a really disruptive force along the interior. Balances plugging running lanes with decent skills as a penetrator. Consistent season.

LAST WEEK: 15 | PLAYER CARD

15Vontaze Burfict *AGE: 21DOB: 9/24/90HT: 6-3WT: 250POS: LB
Tkl 68Sack 5.0Int 1
Has little left to prove; he's started from day one. Great instincts, makes plays sideline to sideline and is far more disciplined than he gets credit for. Maybe too much tape at this point.

LAST WEEK: 16 | PLAYER CARD

16Devon StillAGE: 22DOB: 7/11/89HT: 6-5WT: 310POS: DT
Tkl 49Sack 4.5Int 0
A great penetrator, he has overcome health issues and has been extremely disruptive, breaking through double-teams to pile up TFLs. Maybe the MVP for that team this season. Could play a couple of spots at next level.

LAST WEEK: 17 | PLAYER CARD

17Cordy GlennAGE: 22DOB: 9/18/89HT: 6-5WT: 348POS: T/G
GP 13GS 13
Really experienced player whose best strength is versatility. Has spent time at tackle but can dominate at guard, and I'd expect whoever drafts him to ultimately have him blocking inside.

LAST WEEK: 18 | PLAYER CARD

18Courtney UpshawAGE: 21DOB: 12/13/89HT: 6-2WT: 265POS: LB
Tkl 45Sack 7.5Int 1
A riser so far this year, he is showing improved pass-rush skills and should convert to 3-4 OLB at the next level. Great leverage player who uses hands well and battles against the run. Fits the LaMarr Woodley comparison.

LAST WEEK: 19 | PLAYER CARD

19David DeCastroAGE: 21DOB: 1/1/90HT: 6-5WT: 310POS: OG
GP 12GS 12
Extremely consistent, and both athletic and powerful in the run game. The rare guard who could get some looks in the first round.

LAST WEEK: 20 | PLAYER CARD

20Alfonzo DennardAGE: 22DOB: 9/9/89HT: 5-10WT: 205POS: CB
Tkl 23Sack 0.0Int 0
Plays taller than his 5-foot-10 frame with incredible leaping ability. Handles bigger receivers far better than the height implies. Has strong frame and great ball skills and is a big-time competitor.

LAST WEEK: 21 | PLAYER CARD

21Zach BrownAGE: 22DOB: 10/23/89HT: 6-2WT: 230POS: LB
Tkl 91Sack 5.5Int 2
An absolute flier, Brown isn't big, but he can get after the quarterback and back up and cover like a safety. Has a versatile skill set and can go outside in a 3-4 or be a good weakside in a 4-3.

LAST WEEK: 22 | PLAYER CARD

22Jerel Worthy *AGE: 21DOB: 4/28/90HT: 6-3WT: 310POS: DT
Tkl 25Sack 3.5Int 0
Has played better after an inconsistent start but still can have up-and-down stretches. Disruptive DT in a class that's a little shallower, and that could benefit him. Has good size and is tough to move -- just needs consistency.

LAST WEEK: 23 | PLAYER CARD

23Janoris JenkinsAGE: 23DOB: 10/29/88HT: 5-10WT: 177POS: CB
Tkl 53Sack 0Int 2
Quick as a cat with fluid hips and very good instincts for the position. He's a man among boys now at the Division II level, but must be exceptional there and answer questions. Has been dynamic as a punt returner this season.

LAST WEEK: 24 | PLAYER CARD

24Michael Floyd *AGE: 22DOB: 11/27/89HT: 6-3WT: 224POS: WR
Rec 95Yds 1,106Avg 11.6TD 8
Multidimensional receiver is able to beat you short or deep using a big frame to beat smaller cornerbacks. Played at 227 pounds in 2010 but dropped a little weight this season and does appear a little quicker.

LAST WEEK: 25 | PLAYER CARD

25Dwayne Allen *AGE: 21DOB: 2/24/90HT: 6-4WT: 255POS: TE
Rec 48Yds 577Avg 12.0TD 8
Multidimensional tight end who is head and shoulders above the rest of his class. He's athletic but is also a very effective blocker. The NFL is craving for these types right now.

LAST WEEK: NR | PLAYER CARD

ChiefsCountry
12-11-2012, 04:26 PM
Judging by the posting history of some that hate Barkley should make you rethink your stance on him.

Baby Lee
12-11-2012, 04:27 PM
Careful. Baby Lee will come in and wizard you to death with this bullshit sophistry

You say sophistry, I say reading the words you posted.

You and htis were emphatically saying 'pick one, just pick one. who cares which one, who cares if he busts, we need one.'

All I countered with was 'you need to do a little more due diligence, and carefully analyze if he's not going to bust is not a clearly inferior prospect to the rest of the available draft class.

After a bunch of bullshit, you guys finally come out with 'of course it was ASSUMED that he was an undeniable #1 prospect with low likelihood of busting.'

I want a QB as much as anyone, and have been as vocal about it as anyone here FOR YEARS. Doesn't mean I want the Chiefs to go QB blind and throw a dart at some QB only draft chart.

Baby Lee
12-11-2012, 04:30 PM
people are just using Luck for cover for the same old "it's risky" and "he's not good enough" bullshit that happens every fucking year from a fanbase full of pussies...

Whomever we pick, I'm considerably CONSIDERABLY less concerned if he is the next Luck than I am that he is the next Leaf, Carr, or Akili Smith.

O.city
12-11-2012, 04:32 PM
Whomever we pick, I'm considerably CONSIDERABLY less concerned if he is the next Luck than I am that he is the next Leaf, Carr, or Akili Smith.

This is what I'm arguing.


If he is the next Leaf, Carr, Smith etc, what does that hurt or set us back?


The risk associated with taking a QB, is absolutely worth the reward, especially in todays NFL.

DeezNutz
12-11-2012, 04:35 PM
If the QB whom we draft sucks, what's changed? We'll have shitty QB play? And?

New CBA makes it possible to turn and burn at the position. We'll be drafting high again the following year...and we'll be in position to draft another QB. Fine.

We need a GM with the self-confidence and foresight to make these kinds of decisions, unlike the dickless bastard who has been leading the charge in KC since '09.

Baby Lee
12-11-2012, 04:39 PM
If the QB whom we draft sucks, what's changed? We'll have shitty QB play? And?

New CBA makes it possible to turn and burn at the position. We'll be drafting high again the following year...and we'll be in position to draft another QB. Fine.

We need a GM with the self-confidence and foresight to make these kinds of decisions, unlike the dickless bastard who has been leading the charge in KC since '09.

And the rest of the quality players on the team burn off another year.
And they see that the FO doesn't know shit about player evaluation.
And more FAs break free, more resolved to find a team w/o its head up its ass.
QB busts put pervasive and persistent stenches on teams.
We are in that position now through the most bassackwards manner in NFL history, giving up the bank for a bust no one even wanted.

I WANT A QB!!! That people are trying to paint to the contrary means only that they haven't paid much attention around here for the past few years.
I don't want 'any QB fever' to strike the Chiefs FO. I want due diligence throughout the draft, and in the assembly of scouts and position coaches.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 04:40 PM
After a bunch of bullshit, you guys finally come out with 'of course it was ASSUMED that he was an undeniable #1 prospect with low likelihood of busting.'

Name a draft, any draft, where there wasn't at least 1 QB worth a top 3 pick.

Your entire hypothetical was based on there not being a QB in any given draft that wasn't worth the Chiefs' pick. The Chiefs will be picking no lower than 3rd.

Your hypothetical would require that there were ZERO QBs in a draft worth a top 3 pick and that's NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 04:43 PM
And the rest of the quality players on the team burn off another year.

Time doesn't stop, no matter what we do at the QB position.

In fact, if we take a QB and that QB is good, those players' time isn't wasted. However, if we don't take a QB, those 2 things WILL occur because we're either staying with what we have or bringing in someone's retread, which we already know is going to fail. We've done it, over and over and over and over and over. It doesn't work.

keg in kc
12-11-2012, 04:45 PM
Whomever we pick, I'm considerably CONSIDERABLY less concerned if he is the next Luck than I am that he is the next Leaf, Carr, or Akili Smith.That's the risk with any player at any position. And let's be honest here, with this team's record with first round draft picks, what difference would it really make if it is the next Leaf, Carr or Akili Smith. I mean, if we're going to focus on the negative possibility, is that really markedly worse than drafting the next Tyson Jackson or Glenn Dorsey or Larry Johnson or Ryan Sims or Sylvester Morris or John Tait or Victor Riley or Trezelle Jenkins. Is the risk of taking a shot and failing at QB somehow worse than the risk of drafting a "guy" at another position, much less drafting a complete bust. We've got 20 years of first round busts and "just a guy" picks balanced against the one big hit in Tony Gonzalez and the little bubble of hits with DJ, Hali and Bowe. Are there any other players that this team has taken in the first round in the last 20 years that would really hurt us to lose? That's what the "safe" approach has gotten us. What difference would it really have made if they'd taken a Ryan Leaf hit at QB instead of Victor Riley? Or an Akili Smith hit at QB instead of John Tait? Or David Carr instead of Ryan Sims?

All of this completely disregarding the real possibility that we draft someone who isn't a bust at QB.

And there's no better time in the history of the league to it than now, thanks to the CBA and rookie slotting.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 04:46 PM
You and htis were emphatically saying 'pick one, just pick one. who cares which one, who cares if he busts, we need one.'

Dude, the Chiefs will pick NO LOWER THAN THIRD. That's not an assumption, that's an implied FACT.

There are at least 3 top QBs in this draft that many people feel are worth a top pick. That is an assumption but one that pretty much everybody got except you. We've only been talking about Wilson, Smith, and Barkley hourly for about 10 weeks now.

Don't act like the "assumption" you mention was absurd because it absolutely wasn't.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 04:47 PM
What difference would it really have made if they'd taken a Ryan Leaf hit at QB instead of Victor Riley? Or an Akili Smith hit at QB instead of John Tait? Or David Carr instead of Ryan Sims?

:bravo:

Baby Lee
12-11-2012, 04:56 PM
Geezus, it's not enough that the Chiefs make me hate them so. The fans seem so intent on blowing minutiae into life defining battles, that I seem to consigned to hating them as well.

I WANT A NEW FUCKING QB, AND HAVE SINCE THE MOMENT THE CASSEL DEAL WAS SIGNED

But fuck it. The Chiefs FO gets ESPN. They've heard that there were 3 really good college QBs. Send everyone home 'til next April. Oh, but don't forget to have Marge the secretary come in a couple days early prepare the wheel of QBs and the ceremonial dart for day one of the draft.

FUCK THIS TEAM And FUCK THIS GAME.

DeezNutz
12-11-2012, 04:56 PM
And the rest of the quality players on the team burn off another year.


If not through the draft, then how? If not Smith/Wilson/Barkley, then whom do we find?

We have no talent at the position currently, and thus we're wasting prime years for everyone, so we have to solve this with an injection of talent. Where will we find the best talent?

Talented QBs rarely hit the FA and trade market. It happens, but not often.

We have to find our own new-QB smell instead of dousing someone else's piece of shit with Fabreeze.

keg in kc
12-11-2012, 04:57 PM
Somebody's a little unstable.

Chief Roundup
12-11-2012, 04:58 PM
Dude, the Chiefs will pick NO LOWER THAN THIRD. That's not an assumption, that's an implied FACT.

There are at least 3 top QBs in this draft that many people feel are worth a top pick. That is an assumption but one that pretty much everybody got except you. We've only been talking about Wilson, Smith, and Barkley hourly for about 10 weeks now.

Don't act like the "assumption" you mention was absurd because it absolutely wasn't.

See this is where we disagree. There is a top 2 and then a bunch of others. I just don't see how Barkley is considered a top QB.
As mentioned early and you agreed Barkley has a weaker arm than Chad Pennington and is not a cerebral as Pennington was. How is Barkley top anything? Oh yeah because he is available and you are desperate.

DeezNutz
12-11-2012, 04:59 PM
Barkley does not have a weaker arm than Pennington. No way. Nooooo waaayyyy.

SNR
12-11-2012, 04:59 PM
You say sophistry, I say reading the words you posted.

You and htis were emphatically saying 'pick one, just pick one. who cares which one, who cares if he busts, we need one.'

All I countered with was 'you need to do a little more due diligence, and carefully analyze if he's not going to bust is not a clearly inferior prospect to the rest of the available draft class.

After a bunch of bullshit, you guys finally come out with 'of course it was ASSUMED that he was an undeniable #1 prospect with low likelihood of busting.'

I want a QB as much as anyone, and have been as vocal about it as anyone here FOR YEARS. Doesn't mean I want the Chiefs to go QB blind and throw a dart at some QB only draft chart.And I call sophistry "sophistry." You were quick to point out the inconsistencies and logical fallacies in my argument while engaging in your own (slippery slope, anyone?). I call what you did Geno's Paradox (heh... get it?)

The "pick any QB" argument has limits like anything. Geno Smith and Tyler Wilson aren't even fucking CLOSE to that limit. If you're saying we need to observe draft value procedures because it's those two guys and not Luck and RGIII, you've got a terrible football mind. Geno Smith and Tyler Wilson are above average QB prospects, dude.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 05:00 PM
If not through the draft, then how? If not Smith/Wilson/Barkley, then whom do we find?

We have no talent at the position currently, and thus we're wasting prime years for everyone, so we have to solve this with an injection of talent. Where will we find the best talent?

Talented QBs rarely hit the FA and trade market. It happens, but not often.

We have to find our own new-QB smell instead of dousing someone else's piece of shit with Fabreeze.

Exactly, exactly.

I've yet to see anybody actually address this.

Chief Roundup
12-11-2012, 05:00 PM
Barkley does not have a weaker arm than Pennington. No way. Nooooo waaayyyy.

Pennington didn't have arm issues until after he had the shoulder issues.

ChiefsCountry
12-11-2012, 05:00 PM
See this is where we disagree. There is a top 2 and then a bunch of others. I just don't see how Barkley is considered a top QB.
As mentioned early and you agreed Barkley has a weaker arm than Chad Pennington and is not a cerebral as Pennington was. How is Barkley top anything? Oh yeah because he is available and you are desperate.

Wow you are an idiot.

keg in kc
12-11-2012, 05:01 PM
Exactly, exactly.

I've yet to see anybody actually address this.Alex Smith!

Joe Flacco!

SNR
12-11-2012, 05:02 PM
Somebody's a little unstable.

Eh, I get like that around here all the time. It happens.

SNR
12-11-2012, 05:02 PM
If not through the draft, then how? If not Smith/Wilson/Barkley, then whom do we find?

We have no talent at the position currently, and thus we're wasting prime years for everyone, so we have to solve this with an injection of talent. Where will we find the best talent?

Talented QBs rarely hit the FA and trade market. It happens, but not often.

We have to find our own new-QB smell instead of dousing someone else's piece of shit with Fabreeze.

Hey, maybe Mike Glennon is really good!

DeezNutz
12-11-2012, 05:03 PM
Pennington didn't have arm issues until after he had the shoulder issues.

Fair enough. I'd be lying if I said that any mental picture that I have of him isn't from later in his career.

keg in kc
12-11-2012, 05:03 PM
Eh, I get like that around here all the time. It happens.I never do. No, I'm not lying. Fuck you, motherfucker, i'm gonna tear your fucking fuck-ass face off.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 05:04 PM
See this is where we disagree. There is a top 2 and then a bunch of others. I just don't see how Barkley is considered a top QB.
As mentioned early and you agreed Barkley has a weaker arm than Chad Pennington and is not a cerebral as Pennington was. How is Barkley top anything? Oh yeah because he is available and you are desperate.

I did NOT agree that Barkley had a weaker arm than Pennington, NO I DID NOT.

Let me put it this way - name an option for QB that is BETTER than taking Barkley at #3.

Alex Smith? Trying to go after Matt Flynn?

Or would you prefer to do nothing and go into next season with a battle between Brady Quinn and Matt Cassel?

Oh let me guess, you're gonna trade down and play Russion Roulette with the most important position in professional sports.

keg in kc
12-11-2012, 05:05 PM
Oh let me guess, you're gonna trade down and play Russion Roulette with the most important position in professional sports.We haven't drafted one in like 25 years. Why would we change that now? Especially when there's possibly a 49ers backup available.

DeezNutz
12-11-2012, 05:05 PM
If someone wants to identify an alternative course of action other than the draft, I'm ready to read and be convinced of it. I'll champion the cause to go balls deep on this QB in an effort to "save the Chiefs."

But I need to know whom we're targeting and how we're acquiring this QB. Be very specific. If not, you really have no plan.

My plan is to draft Smith, Wilson, or Barkley. I'm doing this with the team's first selection in the first round. These are each very talented QBs whom I believe will instantly improve the roster.

Now give me your plan and explain how QB __ makes more sense.

keg in kc
12-11-2012, 05:08 PM
If someone wants to identify an alternative course of action other than the draft, I'm ready to read and be convinced of it. I'll champion the cause to go balls deep on this QB in an effort to "save the Chiefs."

But I need to know whom we're targeting and how we're acquiring this QB. Be very specific. If not, you really have no plan.

My plan is to draft Smith, Wilson, or Barkley. I'm doing this with the team's first selection in the first round. These are each very talented QBs whom I believe will instantly improve the roster.

Now give me your plan and explain how QB __ makes more sense.Give up whatever it takes to get Cousins and platoon him and Stanzi? Clone a child of the two and name him Stanzins?

DeezNutz
12-11-2012, 05:13 PM
If someone wants to identify an alternative course of action other than the draft, I'm ready to read and be convinced of it. I'll champion the cause to go balls deep on this QB in an effort to "save the Chiefs."

But I need to know whom we're targeting and how we're acquiring this QB. Be very specific. If not, you really have no plan.

My plan is to draft Smith, Wilson, or Barkley. I'm doing this with the team's first selection in the first round. These are each very talented QBs whom I believe will instantly improve the roster.

Now give me your plan and explain how QB __ makes more sense.

Yep. Figured this type of post might kill the thread.

Chief Roundup
12-11-2012, 05:18 PM
I did NOT agree that Barkley had a weaker arm than Pennington, NO I DID NOT.

Isn't Barkley basically Chad Pennington?


He did show some spunk under pressure late in the year which helped a lot in my eyes but still ... Posted by Laz

No. He's not Chad Pennington.

Barkley can't drive the ball down the field with his arm but he can make the intermediate throws. Posted by htismage commenting back to Laz.

No Pennington had a stronger arm coming out of college. His arm strength was never the greatest but he didn't have the arm issues until after the shoulder issues. Not to mention Pennington was a much more cerebral than Barkley. My comment to Laz

Yeah, Pennington had a bunch of shoulder problems. Your comment back to me.


Your comments in http://http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=263693 sure seem to say something different at least to me.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 05:20 PM
Give up whatever it takes to get Cousins and platoon him and Stanzi? Clone a child of the two and name him Stanzins?

ROFL

:Lin:

ROFL

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 05:21 PM
Posted by Laz

Posted by htismage commenting back to Laz.

My comment to Laz

Your comment back to me.


Your comments in http://http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=263693 sure seem to say something different at least to me.

He asked if Barkley was Chad Pennington and I said "no" - it doesn't get any more clear than that. There's an implied statement about Pennington in my statement about Barkley.

"Barkley can't drive the ball down the field with his arm but he can make the intermediate throws" - the part in bold implies that Barkley can make the intermediate throws while Pennington struggled with them.

My reply to you was specifically about Pennington's shoulder issues, not your comments on his arm strength.

Brock
12-11-2012, 05:26 PM
Good christ. :facepalm:

Chief Roundup
12-11-2012, 05:26 PM
He asked if Barkley was Chad Pennington and I said "no" - it doesn't get any more clear than that. There's an implied statement about Pennington in my statement about Barkley.

"Barkley can't drive the ball down the field with his arm but he can make the intermediate throws" - the part in bold implies that Barkley can make the intermediate throws while Pennington struggled with them.

My reply to you was specifically about Pennington's shoulder issues, not your comments on his arm strength.

Who can't make the intermediate throws. We need a QB that can drive the ball downfield.

DeezNutz
12-11-2012, 05:30 PM
Who can't make the intermediate throws. We need a QB that can drive the ball downfield.

Not worried.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8Y-mfnHEnPA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 05:32 PM
Who can't make the intermediate throws. We need a QB that can drive the ball downfield.

Lots of QBs can't make the intermediate throws, Lord knows Cassel and Quinn can't.

You can win in this game using an offense that relies on accuracy/timing (something Barkley has) and YAC (something Bowe excels at).

Barkley isn't all that different than Drew Brees in this aspect.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 05:33 PM
Not worried.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8Y-mfnHEnPA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

He throws a nice fade. I worry that it hangs a little though - NFL CBs can close on that pretty fast.

keg in kc
12-11-2012, 05:33 PM
That's actually one of the things I like the most about Smith. He's got the cannon, can deliver the 50-yard strike on target. But he can also make basically any other throw. And he has touch. You won't see him breaking guys fingers on slants or throwing screens with no arc on the delivery.

DeezNutz
12-11-2012, 05:38 PM
That's actually one of the things I like the most about Smith. He's got the cannon, can deliver the 50-yard strike on target. But he can also make basically any other throw. And he has touch. You won't see him breaking guys fingers on slants or throwing screens with no arc on the delivery.

True enough. I see it as:

Smith
Wilson


Barkley.


But the last option is substantially better than anything else available to us (still waiting on someone to offer another plan), and is a legitimate first-round talent whom we could build around and win with.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 05:40 PM
True enough. I see it as:

Smith
Wilson


Barkley.


But the last option is substantially better than anything else available to us (still waiting on someone to offer another plan), and is a legitimate first-round talent whom we could build around and win with.

Agree 100% with all of the above.

keg in kc
12-11-2012, 05:43 PM
I think the only reason we're talking about Barkley at all is the possibility of falling to the 3rd pick, and Smith and Wilson being picks one and two.

Which I don't think is really a realistic possibility for a number of reasons...

But stranger things have happened.

Wilson's probably the biggest wild card for me. Being a Petrino QB worries me much like being a USC QB worries me. But attribute wise, I think he certainly has more to like than Barkley.

In the end, I really hope it's Smith.

Sorter
12-11-2012, 05:46 PM
True enough. I see it as:

Smith
Wilson


Barkley.


But the last option is substantially better than anything else available to us (still waiting on someone to offer another plan), and is a legitimate first-round talent whom we could build around and win with.

Nassib>Barkley.

kcbubb
12-11-2012, 05:46 PM
"So, you wanna argue that this isn't a year to take a QB? I'll argue that its a great year to take a QB."

There are only 2 reasons why it's a great year - rookie salary cap and the fact that we're desperate.

We'd draft the top QB from sister Mary's middle school if she could throw 20 yards.

I agree, but that doesn't mean that we just need to take a QB with the first pick. We need a QB with a top pick, but it doesn't have to be our 1st. Let me give some examples.

#1. Look at what the Bengals did. They took the best player available in AJ Green and then took Andy Dalton at the top of the 2nd. They were smart about it and drafted a QB that fit their system. Obviously, Dalton was a better pick than Locker or Gabbert. The Chiefs need a QB that fits their system.

#2. The Browns are another example. They traded up to get Trent Richardson when they desperately needed a QB. Then they took Brandon Weeden with the 22nd pick. Time will reveal if this was a good move, but Weeden seems to be having a solid first year.

The point is that there are different ways to build a team. The Chiefs could draft another position with their first pick and try trade up into the 2nd to take a QB or sit tight like the Bengals and take a QB.

keg in kc
12-11-2012, 05:48 PM
That's great if we're trying to be the Browns or Bengals.

DeezNutz
12-11-2012, 05:58 PM
I agree, but that doesn't mean that we just need to take a QB with the first pick. We need a QB with a top pick, but it doesn't have to be our 1st. Let me give some examples.

#1. Look at what the Bengals did. They took the best player available in AJ Green and then took Andy Dalton at the top of the 2nd. They were smart about it and drafted a QB that fit their system. Obviously, Dalton was a better pick than Locker or Gabbert. The Chiefs need a QB that fits their system.

#2. The Browns are another example. They traded up to get Trent Richardson when they desperately needed a QB. Then they took Brandon Weeden with the 22nd pick. Time will reveal if this was a good move, but Weeden seems to be having a solid first year.

The point is that there are different ways to build a team. The Chiefs could draft another position with their first pick and try trade up into the 2nd to take a QB or sit tight like the Bengals and take a QB.

Here's why this plan is flawed:

1. We can't sit tight and hope a talent drops into the second. That's hoping, not planning, and we need the latter.
2. I'm not trading back up into the first round, expending more resources for a lesser talent and prospect.
3. Positional value and need. We need an ILB, and Te'o is a great one. But he's not worth a top-3 pick given our roster. We can find a high-quality ILB who won't kill himself or others in the later rounds.

the Talking Can
12-11-2012, 06:00 PM
Whomever we pick, I'm considerably CONSIDERABLY less concerned if he is the next Luck than I am that he is the next Leaf, Carr, or Akili Smith.

oh noes, so risky....we might end up 2-14 if that happens

the Talking Can
12-11-2012, 06:05 PM
I think the only reason we're talking about Barkley at all is the possibility of falling to the 3rd pick, and Smith and Wilson being picks one and two.

Which I don't think is really a realistic possibility for a number of reasons...

But stranger things have happened.

Wilson's probably the biggest wild card for me. Being a Petrino QB worries me much like being a USC QB worries me. But attribute wise, I think he certainly has more to like than Barkley.

In the end, I really hope it's Smith.

co-sign

O.city
12-11-2012, 06:06 PM
Can someone in this thread explain to me whats not to like about Geno?


Not being a sarcastic ass, but I would like to know the knocks on the guy or atleast what people on CP conceive to be his knocks.

SNR
12-11-2012, 06:08 PM
Here's why this plan is flawed:

1. We can't sit tight and hope a talent drops into the second. That's hoping, not planning, and we need the latter.
2. I'm not trading back up into the first round, expending more resources for a lesser talent and prospect.
3. Positional value and need. We need an ILB, and Te'o is a great one. But he's not worth a top-3 pick given our roster. We can find a high-quality ILB who won't kill himself or others in the later rounds.

Not making the case to do this, but Star Lotulelei would be ideal if we're going to switch to a one-gap 3-4.

DeezNutz
12-11-2012, 06:09 PM
Can someone in this thread explain to me whats not to like about Geno?


Not being a sarcastic ass, but I would like to know the knocks on the guy or atleast what people on CP conceive to be his knocks.

He plays on a shitty team, and he's black. /BS "logic"

DeezNutz
12-11-2012, 06:09 PM
Not making the case to do this, but Star Lotulelei would be ideal if we're going to switch to a one-gap 3-4.

Cool. And we're sacrificing a first next year to trade back up to get whom?

(understand you're not advocating this)

O.city
12-11-2012, 06:10 PM
He plays on a shitty team, and he's black. /BS "logic"

I'm seriously asking for someone to break down his flaws.


I'm of the opinion that if his defense was even average and they win a few of those close games, we aren't really having this discussion right now.

kcbubb
12-11-2012, 06:12 PM
Can someone in this thread explain to me whats not to like about Geno?


Not being a sarcastic ass, but I would like to know the knocks on the guy or atleast what people on CP conceive to be his knocks.

I haven't watched him play much, but I have heard that he is a system guy with most of his passes coming from short passing plays and the yardage is mostly YAC yards. He did well early and has really slipped late. Which could because people have figured out the system, but I really don't know.... That's just what I've read.

O.city
12-11-2012, 06:13 PM
I've watched him play alot, and I know what I think his flaws are, I was just wanting some outside perspective.

DeezNutz
12-11-2012, 06:14 PM
I'm seriously asking for someone to break down his flaws.


I'm of the opinion that if his defense was even average and they win a few of those close games, we aren't really having this discussion right now.

And my post was more serious than not. You have a bunch of people who haven't seen him play making comments.

That's the nature of a message board.

SNR
12-11-2012, 06:15 PM
Cool. And we're sacrificing a first next year to trade back up to get whom?

(understand you're not advocating this)

If Smith, Wilson, Barkley, and Murray are all gone, the rest of the group makes me soft. At that point all the QBs really ARE the same, and we may as well wait until the 2nd round so we can draft Magic Mike Glennon that everybody seems to love

Buckweath
12-11-2012, 06:16 PM
Geno' s flaws: poor footwork, playing in a system which doesn' t require as many reads as he'll have to make in the NFL, inconsistent deep ball, tends to stare down a receiver at times, reluctant to run with the ball when there is an opening, ...

bigjosh006
12-11-2012, 06:19 PM
I've watched him play alot, and I know what I think his flaws are, I was just wanting some outside perspective.

Pioli says that he doesnt do what a first round talent does, says hes no good at eating up blockers or stopping the run.:thumb:

kcbubb
12-11-2012, 06:24 PM
Here's why this plan is flawed:

1. We can't sit tight and hope a talent drops into the second. That's hoping, not planning, and we need the latter.
2. I'm not trading back up into the first round, expending more resources for a lesser talent and prospect.
3. Positional value and need. We need an ILB, and Te'o is a great one. But he's not worth a top-3 pick given our roster. We can find a high-quality ILB who won't kill himself or others in the later rounds.

How can you say what the Bengals and Browns did was not planning???? They obviously targeted both Weeden and Dalton. We maybe able to target Bray, Glennon, Murray or another QB in the 2nd or come back into the first. I don't know who our next coach will be either and the system that we employ will be a big factor into that as well.

I never said we would have to take Te'o. We could take many positions with that pick. Our biggest need is at CB, of course other than QB.

DeezNutz
12-11-2012, 06:28 PM
How can you say what the Bengals and Browns did was not planning???? They obviously targeted both Weeden and Dalton. We maybe able to target Bray, Glennon, Murray or another QB in the 2nd or come back into the first. I don't know who our next coach will be either and the system that we employ will be a big factor into that as well.

I never said we would have to take Te'o. We could take many positions with that pick. Our biggest need is at CB, of course other than QB.

Would it be better to select one of the Big 3 with our first or give up even more to select Murray?

Furthermore, it's not a plan if we wait until round 2 because we have to hope that our target falls or make an aggressive play to get him. Again, sacrificing more valuable resources for a lesser prospect.

SNR
12-11-2012, 06:32 PM
How can you say what the Bengals and Browns did was not planning???? They obviously targeted both Weeden and Dalton. We maybe able to target Bray, Glennon, Murray or another QB in the 2nd or come back into the first. I don't know who our next coach will be either and the system that we employ will be a big factor into that as well.

I never said we would have to take Te'o. We could take many positions with that pick. Our biggest need is at CB, of course other than QB.

You know, a REAL team that plans would have seen the Redskins trade coming from miles away and would have traded up to grab RGIII before anybody else.

Instead they traded up to grab a fucking RB.

Yeah, fuck using the Browns as sound judgment.

Chiefaholic
12-11-2012, 06:39 PM
It's sad that we screwed the pooch with too many wins last year to miss out on what appears to be two quality franchise QB's. But, this team needs to start Stanzi the remainder of the season just to see what we have. If he still blows chunks, then we need to draft two QB's this year. If it's an option, take Geno #1 overall, then seriously consider drafting another QB in round 3 as an insurance policy just in case. It worked our pretty damn well for Washington and the position is by far our most glaring need going into the draft.

hometeam
12-11-2012, 06:42 PM
http://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/USATODAY/gameon/2012/10/16/10-16-2012-geno-smith-number-one-4_3_r560.jpg?f061b7ce9937c38b702e6f308816ac2a14e2a4ec

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 06:49 PM
Not making the case to do this, but Star Lotulelei would be ideal if we're going to switch to a one-gap 3-4.

Maybe at 1-13. Not at 1-3.

And definitely not at 1-1.

Recent history has more than shown that taking DTs high is basically throwing the pick away.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 06:51 PM
How can you say what the Bengals and Browns did was not planning???? They obviously targeted both Weeden and Dalton. We maybe able to target Bray, Glennon, Murray or another QB in the 2nd or come back into the first. I don't know who our next coach will be either and the system that we employ will be a big factor into that as well.

I never said we would have to take Te'o. We could take many positions with that pick. Our biggest need is at CB, of course other than QB.

There aren't any CBs worth a top 3 pick in this draft.

Deberg_1990
12-11-2012, 06:55 PM
It's sad that we screwed the pooch with too many wins last year to miss out on what appears to be two quality franchise QB's. But, this team needs to start Stanzi the remainder of the season just to see what we have. If he still blows chunks, then we need to draft two QB's this year.

If Stanzi started, won all his games and threw for 300 yards each week, we still need to draft a QB.

Sorter
12-11-2012, 06:59 PM
If Stanzi started, won all his games and threw for 300 yards each week, we still need to draft a QB.

^^This.

I would have loved for Stanzi to have been a franchise QB. However, it isn't going to happen. He probably doesn't even need to be on the roster next year.

Draft Geno, keep Stanzi/Quinn/draft pick as a back up, and draft or find an UDFA to fill the PS.

kcbubb
12-11-2012, 09:25 PM
Would it be better to select one of the Big 3 with our first or give up even more to select Murray?

Furthermore, it's not a plan if we wait until round 2 because we have to hope that our target falls or make an aggressive play to get him. Again, sacrificing more valuable resources for a lesser prospect.

Say you plan on taking a guy like Bray in the 2nd. He is not a lesser prospect than Geno from a talent perspective. He is riskier prospect. He has maturity problems and some other off the field troubles. He has all the physical tools to be an elite NFL QB. His dropping has more to do with risk than with tools. And I believe he will be there in late round 1 or round 2.

And what are the big differences in Murray and Wilson. Murray has a better arm. Murray has shown stints of looking like a legit NFL QB but he is inconsistent. They are about the same size.

The point I am trying to make is that I don't believe that the difference between several of these guys is very much. Several of them are bunched together in terms of talent and risk.

If you look at the Ponder, Gabbert and Locker picks, everyone said that Ponder was the worst pick of the three.

Don't let the Chiefs 30 year drought of drafting a QB make you over compensate.

SNR
12-11-2012, 09:26 PM
They are about the same size.


Oh, good. You actually don't know what the fuck you're talking about and are just making shit up. Excellent. I can just ignore everything you have to say now.

the Talking Can
12-11-2012, 09:28 PM
there's a canyon between smith and murray

i mean, if you exclude their actual performance, they appear similar i guess...

O.city
12-11-2012, 09:31 PM
Pretty sure I read that Murray is going back.

kcbubb
12-11-2012, 09:35 PM
There aren't any CBs worth a top 3 pick in this draft.

Dee Milliner could be pretty close.

kcbubb
12-11-2012, 09:37 PM
Oh, good. You actually don't know what the **** you're talking about and are just making shit up. Excellent. I can just ignore everything you have to say now.

Murray is 6'1" 210
Wilson is 6'2" 220

O.city
12-11-2012, 09:39 PM
No CB is worth a top 3 pick.

Nightfyre
12-11-2012, 09:40 PM
No CB is worth a top 3 pick.

I agree.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 09:41 PM
Murray is 6'1" 210
Wilson is 6'2" 220

Murray won't measure 6'1" at the combine.

DeezNutz
12-11-2012, 09:41 PM
Say you plan on taking a guy like Bray in the 2nd.

And here's the problem. You cannot "plan" on taking any QB in the second round; you "hope" to have the opportunity to select any player in the second.

A team can only plan for what it's positive it can accomplish, and the Chiefs cannot afford to hope to infuse talent at the QB position this off-season.

Therefore, my plan is to select one of the three most talented QBs in this draft, and I guarantee I can accomplish this.

O.city
12-11-2012, 09:41 PM
With a top three pick in the draft, you absolutely must take a game changer at a high impact position.


Like I said earlier, LT, Pass rusher, or QB. Maybe a WR if you already have the other 3 and the guy is just super dynamic.

the Talking Can
12-11-2012, 09:43 PM
so the plan is to take a less talented, riskier prospect at QB (the most important position) so that we can draft a LB with the #1 pick?

is this what people are seriously discussing?

kcbubb
12-11-2012, 09:44 PM
If you are making the call, who would try to keep & sign to a long term deal?

Bowe (keep in mind if you franchise him again that his price goes way up)
or Albert?

O.city
12-11-2012, 09:44 PM
Actually I think it's a CB they want now. Or a TED MLB.

I'm not sure.

SNR
12-11-2012, 09:44 PM
If you are making the call, who would try to keep & sign to a long term deal?

Bowe (keep in mind if you franchise him again that his price goes way up)
or Albert?

Both.

We have the money.

O.city
12-11-2012, 09:44 PM
If you are making the call, who would try to keep & sign to a long term deal?

Bowe (keep in mind if you franchise him again that his price goes way up)
or Albert?

Lets see...........


Both.

There is no reason not too.

kcbubb
12-11-2012, 09:45 PM
And here's the problem. You cannot "plan" on taking any QB in the second round; you "hope" to have the opportunity to select any player in the second.

A team can only plan for what it's positive it can accomplish, and the Chiefs cannot afford to hope to infuse talent at the QB position this off-season.

Therefore, my plan is to select one of the three most talented QBs in this draft, and I guarantee I can accomplish this.

How many teams will take a QB in round 1 if the chiefs don't?

DeezNutz
12-11-2012, 09:46 PM
so the plan is to take a less talented, riskier prospect at QB (the most important position) so that we can draft a LB with the #1 pick?

is this what people are seriously discussing?

There's no logic with this approach unless you're willing to move up to get the player, which likely would be needed given the dynamics of the current CBA.

There's a lot of Dayton Mooreishness going on in this thread. No reason to overthink anything. Maximum value: stay where you are and use the talent that's available.

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 09:47 PM
so the plan is to take a less talented, riskier prospect at QB (the most important position) so that we can draft a LB with the #1 pick?

is this what people are seriously discussing?

Yes.

Seriously.

kcbubb
12-11-2012, 09:47 PM
Lets see...........


Both.

There is no reason not too.

This is the Chiefs. I don't see them keeping both. Do you? Really? With the history of the Chiefs organization, you think they keep both?

htismaqe
12-11-2012, 09:47 PM
How many teams will take a QB in round 1 if the chiefs don't?

At least 4 QBs go in the 1st.

Austin Ed
12-11-2012, 09:48 PM
[QUOTE=DeezNutz;9200695]And my post was more serious than not. You have a bunch of people who haven't seen him play making comments.

That's the nature of a message board.[/


They are asking the exact same question about Geno on the Jacksonville board---The Jungle. Answer there from a WVU fan is that Geno has underpeformed against better defenses, and has had problems finding receivers and has been less accurate in critical third down situations. I saw him play in person against Texas early in the year and he was lights out. However, he was not the same guy in some other games (eg, TTU and K State).

O.city
12-11-2012, 09:48 PM
What he's saying is taht if you decide to wait and get your guy in the second, it' out of your hands whether you can draft him or not.


Why not just take him early so you know you can draft him.

DeezNutz
12-11-2012, 09:48 PM
How many teams will take a QB in round 1 if the chiefs don't?

No clue. We can guess, but we don't have the luxury of trying to get lucky. GB did in '05, and they played their hand beautifully.

We must be intelligently proactive.

ILChief
12-11-2012, 09:49 PM
How many teams will take a QB in round 1 if the chiefs don't?

Jacksonville
Oakland
Buffalo
Arizona

O.city
12-11-2012, 09:49 PM
This is the Chiefs. I don't see them keeping both. Do you? Really? With the history of the Chiefs organization, you think they keep both?

With the money likely coming off the books, you almost are going to have to sign them to get to the floor.

kcbubb
12-11-2012, 09:50 PM
Yes.

Seriously.

Tyler Bray is just as physically talented as Geno Smith. He has all the upside.

O.city
12-11-2012, 09:50 PM
No clue. We can guess, but we don't have the luxury of trying to get lucky. GB did in '05, and they played their hand beautifully.

We must be intelligently proactive.

I'd venture to say teams start doing this more often, with as important as the position has become.


Hell, if I were the Steelers GM and someone like Barkley or Wilson fell to me in the first round, I'd think long and hard about taking him.

DeezNutz
12-11-2012, 09:52 PM
I'd venture to say teams start doing this more often, with as important as the position has become.


Hell, if I were the Steelers GM and someone like Barkley or Wilson fell to me in the first round, I'd think long and hard about taking him.

You know who else should think QB? Denver, depending how they've evaluated Asswhiler this year.

O.city
12-11-2012, 09:52 PM
Tyler Bray is just as physically talented as Geno Smith. He has all the upside.

Physically, maybe.


Mentally, it's not close.

It's not all physicality. Bray has had 2 first round draft picks to throw too and hasn't put up good numbers.

O.city
12-11-2012, 09:52 PM
You know who else should think QB? Denver, depending how they've evaluated Asswhiler this year.

Well, they have a GM who seems to get it, so they probably will.

kcbubb
12-11-2012, 09:53 PM
Jacksonville
Oakland
Buffalo
Arizona

You can probably add the Jets and the Eagles to the list... Foles may get the job. But lets say 6 to be conservative. Who are your top 7 QBs?

the Talking Can
12-11-2012, 09:55 PM
[QUOTE=DeezNutz;9200695]And my post was more serious than not. You have a bunch of people who haven't seen him play making comments.

That's the nature of a message board.[/


They are asking the exact same question about Geno on the Jacksonville board---The Jungle. Answer there from a WVU fan is that Geno has underpeformed against better defenses, and has had problems finding receivers and has been less accurate in critical third down situations. I saw him play in person against Texas early in the year and he was lights out. However, he was not the same guy in some other games (eg, TTU and K State).

ask oklahoma's defense how he played...you can't throw for 4000 yards, 6 ints, at a 70% percent completion rate and have 'problems finding receivers'

i've never seen a guy get killed so bad for one truly bad game - kstate...

he carried the worst defense in college, regularly had to pass on 4th down, had to score 40 to even have a chance to win....and all people do is kill him for not winning a national championship

meanwhile we got people pimping life long choke artists like murray, or guys who have accomplished jack shit like bray...it's crazy

O.city
12-11-2012, 09:55 PM
You can probably add the Jets and the Eagles to the list... Foles may get the job. But lets say 6 to be conservative. Who are your top 7 QBs?

Say this is true, which it may very well be.


Why wait and take the 7th best QB in the draft, when you can pretty much assure yourself the top 1 or 2?

Sorter
12-11-2012, 09:56 PM
Dee Milliner could be pretty close.

This post is BlackBob quality.

O.city
12-11-2012, 09:57 PM
Sorter we could use some of your elite football knowledge in this thread.

ILChief
12-11-2012, 09:57 PM
You can probably add the Jets and the Eagles to the list... Foles may get the job. But lets say 6 to be conservative. Who are your top 7 QBs?

Geno
Wilson
Barkley
Bray
Glennon


After that, you're getting into backup QB level players. I don't even like the last two that much

Austin Ed
12-11-2012, 09:58 PM
Geno' s flaws: poor footwork, playing in a system which doesn' t require as many reads as he'll have to make in the NFL, inconsistent deep ball, tends to stare down a receiver at times, reluctant to run with the ball when there is an opening, ...

Not as fast as you think. 4.78 40.

O.city
12-11-2012, 09:58 PM
Bray, Glennon, Manuel, Thomas are all guys who meet the eye test to a T when evaluating physicality you want in a QB.


It's just that all the other things don't really match up.

O.city
12-11-2012, 09:59 PM
Not as fast as you think. 4.78 40.

This is something I've noticed. He doesn't have elite speed.


But he absolutely has enough speed to do what he needs to do.

Sorter
12-11-2012, 10:00 PM
You can probably add the Jets and the Eagles to the list... Foles may get the job. But lets say 6 to be conservative. Who are your top 7 QBs?
Of the guys who will be likely available?

1. Geno
2. Wilson
3. Nassib
4. Barkley
5. Dysert
6. Bray
7. Murray (if he declares)/Glennon

Chief_For_Life58
12-11-2012, 10:01 PM
[QUOTE=Austin Ed;9201175]

ask oklahoma's defense how he played...you can't throw for 4000 yards, 6 ints, at a 70% percent completion rate and have 'problems finding receivers'

i've never seen a guy get killed so bad for one truly bad game - kstate...

he carried the worst defense in college, regularly had to pass on 4th down, had to score 40 to even have a chance to win....and all people do is kill him for not winning a national championship

meanwhile we got people pimping life long choke artists like murray, or guys who have accomplished jack shit like bray...it's crazy

this