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View Full Version : Life Illinois Conceal Carry Ban Struck Down


Frazod
12-11-2012, 05:31 PM
This has been mentioned elsewhere, but I felt it warranted it's own thread. If it becomes politardish, mods please feel free to move it to DC. But for now, this is a beautiful, and quite unexpected, blast of liberty and sanity in a state that generally frowns on both. :thumb:

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/12/11/chicago-concealed-weapons-ban-tossed-by-court/

Illinois Concealed Weapons Ban Tossed By Court

CHICAGO (CBS) — A federal appeals court in Chicago has struck down Illinois’ ban on carrying concealed weapons.

The state now has six months to pass a law that would allow ordinary citizens to carry weapons.

In a 2-1 decision, the U.S. Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals said the state’s ban on carrying a weapon in public is unconstitutional.

“A blanket prohibition on carrying gun in public prevents a person from defending himself anywhere except inside his home; and so substantial a curtailment of the right of armed self-defense requires a greater showing of justification than merely that the public might benefit on balance from such a curtailment, though there is no proof it would,” the judges wrote.

“We are disinclined to engage in another round of historical analysis to determine whether eighteenth-century America understood the Second Amendment to include a right to bear guns outside the home. The Supreme Court has decided that the amendment confers a right to bear arms for self-defense, which is as important outside the home as inside.”

RELATED: The Appeals Court Decision

Illinois is the only state that has a concealed carry gun ban.

The ruling is a victory for gun rights advocates, who argue that the prohibition against concealed weapons violates the U.S. Constitution’s Second Amendment and what they see as Americans’ right to carry guns for self-defense.

Attorney General Lisa Madigan’s office told the AP it is reviewing the ruling and would comment Tuesday.

The ruling stems from a lawsuit filed by former corrections officer Michael Moore of Champaign, farmer Charles Hooks of Percy in southeastern Illinois and the Bellevue, Wash.-based Second Amendment Foundation.

It’s the latest setback for gun control advocates.

Earlier this year, a federal judge threw out a part of Chicago’s gun law, finding a section of the ordinance is too vague and unconstitutional.

U.S. District Judge Samuel Der-Yeghiayan ruled in favor of Chicago resident Shawn Gowder, who was denied a permit to possess a gun in Chicago, due to a past conviction for unlawful use of a weapon.

Gowder was denied a city firearm permit, because the city’s gun ordinance prohibits anyone from getting a city firearm permit if they have been convicted of a violent crime, two or more DUI offenses, or unlawful use of a weapon involving a firearm. Gowder had a misdemeanor unlawful use of a weapon conviction on his record.

But Gowder sued the city, arguing the section barring anyone with an unlawful use of a weapon conviction from obtaining a city firearm permit was too vague, “because it does not define the term ‘unlawful use of a weapon.’”

In 2010, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the city’s ban on handgun possession within city limits, and then-Mayor Richard M. Daley and the City Council later passed a new gun ordinance, allowing city residents to possess handguns only within their own homes, and requiring them to first obtain city firearm permits.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/484202_10151145297931701_1913593109_n.jpg

Bump
12-11-2012, 05:33 PM
that's good. About time.

now watch crime drop a little

hometeam
12-11-2012, 05:34 PM
Good deal. Going into Illinois was always stupid. I have friends on the other side of the river and had to leave my gun at home :/

Munson
12-11-2012, 06:00 PM
Excellent news for Illinois residents.

BigMeatballDave
12-11-2012, 06:03 PM
Suck it, socialists

HonestChieffan
12-11-2012, 06:03 PM
Watch Illinois turn backflips to find a different way.

Rain Man
12-11-2012, 06:07 PM
Good deal. Going into Illinois was always stupid. I have friends on the other side of the river and had to leave my gun at home :/

Hopefully you were able to find a good gunsitter.

Frazod
12-11-2012, 06:10 PM
Watch Illinois turn backflips to find a different way.

I know. It probably won't be so bad for non-Chicago residents, but I fully-expect Chicago to enact the same Draconian restrictions that New York City has - astronomical fees, lengthy background checks, little to no oversite on when or if permits will be granted (unless you're rich/famous/connected).

Living in Naperville, I expect I'll have to pass a course and pay a fee, but it should be reasonable here.

This also assumes that the pricks don't appeal to the Supreme Court, which is very likely.

LiveSteam
12-11-2012, 06:11 PM
Chew on that for awhile Whitlock

notorious
12-11-2012, 06:37 PM
You'll shoot your eye out.

something cooler
12-11-2012, 06:37 PM
Score!

GloryDayz
12-11-2012, 06:44 PM
JW says this is disgusting!

Reerun_KC
12-11-2012, 06:48 PM
Good news....

Now the state will be back logged with applications for months...

They will probably get 50K-100K+ the first year...

Predarat
12-11-2012, 06:59 PM
It was as if Bob Costas and Jason Whitlock cried out in terror, then were suddenly silenced.

GloryDayz
12-11-2012, 07:06 PM
I think the key to "Concealed Carry," sometimes, is to keep it concealed...

Signed,

JB

rockymtnchief
12-11-2012, 07:09 PM
Congrats!

It will be interesting to see how much all crime rates change in the coming years. All eyes are on Illinois now.

loochy
12-11-2012, 07:22 PM
Costas and Whitlock are contemplating Belchering themselves over this

Setsuna
12-11-2012, 07:27 PM
Costas and Whitlock are contemplating Belchering themselves over this

Belcher's mom needs to patent the word "Belcher" and all forms of its uses, so you tards have to pay up just to use it. :facepalm:

GloryDayz
12-11-2012, 07:29 PM
Costas and Whitlock are contemplating Belchering themselves over this

LMAOLMAO

BigMeatballDave
12-11-2012, 08:14 PM
Belcher's mom needs to patent the word "Belcher" and all forms of its uses, so you tards have to pay up just to use it. :facepalm:

Belcher yourself, tard

Strongside
12-11-2012, 08:15 PM
'MURICA!

GloryDayz
12-11-2012, 08:18 PM
Belcher's mom needs to patent the word "Belcher" and all forms of its uses, so you tards have to pay up just to use it. :facepalm:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/C6cxNR9ML8k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

CrazyPhuD
12-11-2012, 08:19 PM
Costas and Whitlock are contemplating Belchering themselves over this

To be fair...according to the urbandictionary they already are belchers.

Someone who believes himself to always be right, although rarely is, much to the frustration of others.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Belcher

loochy
12-11-2012, 08:26 PM
To be fair...according to the urbandictionary they already are belchers.



http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Belcher

Oh, so it's like the people in the DC forum?

loochy
12-11-2012, 08:26 PM
Belcher's mom needs to patent the word "Belcher" and all forms of its uses, so you tards have to pay up just to use it. :facepalm:

Quit setsunaing

Reerun_KC
12-11-2012, 08:28 PM
Belcher's mom needs to patent the word "Belcher" and all forms of its uses, so you tards have to pay up just to use it. :facepalm:

:deevee:

Who gives two shits about Belcher? I didnt care about him before he murdered someone and I sure dont care about that loser now.

So Belcher yourself and save us from you.

Demonpenz
12-11-2012, 08:55 PM
We need more gun laws like I need a belcher to the head

The_Doctor10
12-12-2012, 12:10 AM
Am I missing all the endings to these mass shootings where an honorable John McClain type citizen prevents the loss of innocent lives by taking one of these fucktards out? Or do they just kill dozens of people before either offing themselves or surrendering to police?

Here's a thought, be less fucked up as a society in general. Just to see what happens.

Fairplay
12-12-2012, 12:23 AM
"Persons known for shooting un-armed appliances will not be allowed weapons in Illinois." Article 37 of the Illinois gun code.

Sorter
12-12-2012, 12:25 AM
"Persons known for shooting un-armed appliances will not be allowed weapons in Illinois." Article 37 of the Illinois gun code.

Phew!

Frazod
12-12-2012, 12:26 AM
Am I missing all the endings to these mass shootings where an honorable John McClain type citizen prevents the loss of innocent lives by taking one of these fucktards out? Or do they just kill dozens of people before either offing themselves or surrendering to police?

Here's a thought, be less fucked up as a society in general. Just to see what happens.

See, here's the thing - if a psycho killer gets taken out by somebody when he starts shooting, and therefore doesn't rack up a big fat body count, THEN IT ISN'T NEWSWORTHY, IS IT? Especially by the liberal media which lives to demonize gun owners.

As for that less fucked up as a society pipe dream of yours, yeah, by all means, you should get right on that. In the meantime, however.....

Frazod
12-12-2012, 12:27 AM
"Persons known for shooting un-armed appliances will not be allowed weapons in Illinois." Article 37 of the Illinois gun code.

I bribed the Maytag repairman - the crimes against the refrigerator went unreported. :)

Sorter
12-12-2012, 12:30 AM
Am I missing all the endings to these mass shootings where an honorable John McClain type citizen prevents the loss of innocent lives by taking one of these ****tards out? Or do they just kill dozens of people before either offing themselves or surrendering to police?


They are sneaky

http://deathwishfiles.com/Death%20Wish%2021.JPG

kcfanXIII
12-12-2012, 12:37 AM
Am I missing all the endings to these mass shootings where an honorable John McClain type citizen prevents the loss of innocent lives by taking one of these fucktards out? Or do they just kill dozens of people before either offing themselves or surrendering to police?

Here's a thought, be less fucked up as a society in general. Just to see what happens.

the cowards that often do the shooting of innocents, do it in malls, theaters and other places that DON'T ALLOW FIREARMS. law abiding, responsible gun owners are forced to leave their weapons in the car, or at home. a concept the gun grabbers don't quite comprehend. its proof right there that the psychos who are going to pull one of these shoot em up stunts don't pay attention to the law. they totally ignore the fact that a responsible and well trained gun owner could save lives in these situations, if they were allowed to be armed. If i'm in a situation where somebody is spraying an AK-47 all over, i hope there is at least one person armed with a handgun, who knows how to use it.

Flachief58
12-12-2012, 05:51 AM
"Persons known for shooting un-armed appliances will not be allowed weapons in Illinois." Article 37 of the Illinois gun code.

So as long as the old washing machine has a gun you're ok?

Radar Chief
12-12-2012, 07:22 AM
Am I missing all the endings to these mass shootings where an honorable John McClain type citizen prevents the loss of innocent lives by taking one of these ****tards out? Or do they just kill dozens of people before either offing themselves or surrendering to police?

Here's a thought, be less ****ed up as a society in general. Just to see what happens.

Yes, you apparently are missing the news of CCW holders stopping crimes, but thatís not entirely your fault as the MSM has a vested interest in keeping this information from you.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wWoLGC-n4i4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If not for the internet, I wouldn't know about gramps ^here either.

Reerun_KC
12-12-2012, 08:52 AM
Yes, you apparently are missing the news of CCW holders stopping crimes, but thatís not entirely your fault as the MSM has a vested interest in keeping this information from you.

<IFRAME height=315 src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wWoLGC-n4i4" frameBorder=0 width=560 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>

If not for the internet, I wouldn't know about gramps ^here either.

Gramps with the awesome beatdown.... Well done sir....

BigChiefTablet
12-12-2012, 09:38 AM
"Persons known for shooting un-armed appliances will not be allowed weapons in Illinois." Article 37 of the Illinois gun code.

Shooting armed appliances, on the other hand, is totally ok.

MahiMike
12-12-2012, 10:30 AM
Shoot, podna!

HemiEd
12-12-2012, 10:34 AM
Am I missing all the endings to these mass shootings where an honorable John McClain type citizen prevents the loss of innocent lives by taking one of these ****tards out? Or do they just kill dozens of people before either offing themselves or surrendering to police?

Here's a thought, be less ****ed up as a society in general. Just to see what happens.

We should be more like Canada?

Stewie
12-12-2012, 11:37 AM
CC seems to be working quite well in Kansas.

Dec. 11
Tony Rizzo
The Kansas City Star

Some foresaw the second coming of bleeding Kansas.

But almost six years and 50,000 concealed-carry licenses later, concerns about allowing Kansans to hit the streets packing heat in their pockets and purses have proved largely unfounded.

While there have been instances of permit holders being charged with gun-related crimes, Kansas has been spared any high-profile spasms of violence.

Since 2007 when Kansans began to legally carry concealed guns, the Violence Policy Center in Washington, D.C., has chronicled 350 incidents across the country where 471 people were killed by someone with a concealed-carry permit in shootings that were not self-defense.

None of those incidents occurred in Kansas, according to the center’s database.
In Johnson County, where more than 8,600 people have obtained concealed-carry permits, prosecutors say they can recall only one case where a legal permit holder has faced criminal charges.

While the state’s homicide rate has remained constant since 2007, according to statistics compiled by the FBI, the rate of other violent crimes such as robbery and aggravated assault has decreased significantly.

Those who fought for years to give Kansans the right to carry concealed firearms say they never expected anything else.

“They are not out to be cowboys,” Patricia Stoneking said of the vast majority of people who have availed themselves of the opportunity. “They are law-abiding, responsible folks who take the responsibility of gun ownership very seriously.”

Stoneking, a licensed firearms instructor and president of the Kansas State Rifle Association, said she has trained thousands of people since the Kansas Legislature enacted the concealed-carry law in 2006 over the veto of then-Gov. Kathleen Sebelius.

“I have yet to meet one person who has displayed any propensity to want to use it unless they had to defend themselves or their family,” she said.

Even some who worried about what would happen when thousands of people began carrying weapons in public now concede that there have been few problems.
“Has it turned out OK?” said former Kansas Sen. Tim Owens of Overland Park, who lost his election to a new Senate seat last month. “Probably.”

But even as the once-contentious concealed-carry issue has evolved into a routine fact of life, some communities in Johnson County are now confronting a new gun issue: Open carry.

Although open carry has been legal in Kansas since statehood, some cities, like Overland Park enacted municipal ordinances making it illegal. Overland Park did so in 2007.

But faced with a 2011 legal opinion from the attorney general that cities can’t ban the open carry of weapons, and pushed by the Libertarian Party of Kansas, cities like Overland Park are now grappling with how to best regulate the practice.

Owens, for one, is concerned about the “wild west” image evoked by people walking the streets with holstered weapons visible on their hips.
“I just don’t get how people arrived at that mindset,” he said.

The fight to allow concealed carry in Kansas was a long one.

After previous proposed laws were vetoed by both Republican and Democratic governors, the Legislature in 2006 mustered enough votes to overcome a veto by Sebelius. The state began taking applications in the middle of that year, and in January 2007 residents began carrying weapons legally.

People seeking a permit must apply at their county sheriff’s office. The fee for a license is $132.50.

Those with convictions for felonies or misdemeanor domestic violence crimes are excluded, as is anyone who is the subject of a current protection from abuse or restraining order.

Applicants also are required to complete an eight-hour firearms training course from a licensed instructor. The cost for those courses are set by the instructor and generally run from $75 to $150.

Applications are forwarded to the attorney general’s office, which issues the permits. The permits are good for four years.

As part of the law, the attorney general is required to file annual reports listing the number of applications granted and denied as well as those suspended or revoked.
In its most recent report, the attorney general’s office said it issued 8,295 licenses in fiscal year 2011. Twenty-five licenses were denied, 16 because of the applicant’s criminal record.

During the same time period, 39 licenses were suspended because of criminal charges being filed. Twelve of those were revoked after convictions, and nine were reinstated after the charges were dismissed or reduced to misdemeanors.

Seven of those suspensions involved charges of aggravated assault with a firearm, according to the attorney general’s office.

Authorities revoked 127 licenses during the year. Most of those were because the licensee moved out of state. But five were after convictions for carrying a firearm while intoxicated, and one was for attempted aggravated assault on a law enforcement officer.

The interest in obtaining concealed-carry licenses appears to be growing in Johnson County and across the state.

The Johnson County sheriff’s office said it has received nearly 9,000 applications since the law was passed.

And with more than 1,800 so far this year, 2012 has already surpassed the highest number of applications in a single year.

That mirrors a statewide trend, with the attorney general’s office reporting more than 12,000 applications received during fiscal year 2012. That averaged about 49 applications each working day, and this fall in the first three months of the new fiscal year, the attorney general’s office reports it has seen an average of about 55 requests each day.

Becky Bieker, owner of She’s A Pistol, a gun store in Shawnee, has certainly noticed the increases in sales and in people wanting to take firearms training classes.
“It’s that training that has made it (concealed carry) work so well,” she said. “I think it would have been a big issue without it.”

Bieker said the increased demand has been driven in part from concerns about President Barack Obama’s re-election.

Stoneking agreed that that increased interest stems from uncertainty about the political climate.

“People are more aware and concerned about what is going on around them,” she said.

Incidents like the theater shooting in Colorado also have an affect on people’s sense of safety. Stoneking said there’s no way to know if someone with a gun would have made a difference in that situation or others like it.

“But you sure have better odds with one than without one,” she said. “People don’t want to be at some criminal’s mercy.”

Chris Malcolm, an Overland Park resident, is one of those motivated by a sense of personal safety to obtain a concealed-carry permit. He also convinced his wife, who had never fired a gun before, to take the training course with him.

Malcolm said he was concerned about her safety when he traveled out of town on business.

“I wanted her to be comfortable with handling a gun,” he said.

Malcolm said he has no desire to ever use his gun, but wants to have the option if forced to defend himself.

“I definitely don’t want to take somebody’s life,” he said. “But I don’t want somebody taking mine.”

Malcolm did his firearms training with Mike Mosher, a police officer in Johnson County who operates Tactical Simulation Solutions, a private firearms training business that offers training on a video simulator that replicates real-life scenarios.

Mosher said he developed the program after finding that the basic eight-hour class, while good, was lacking in providing people with an understanding of having to make a life-and-death decision.

“It puts them in situations where they have to decide to shoot or don’t shoot,” he said. “It gives them something to think about.”

Malcolm said he found the simulator training very beneficial and helped emphasize the idea of being aware of your surroundings at all times.

As an advocate for gun rights, Stoneking supports allowing people to openly carry weapons in public.

She’s just not interested in doing it herself.

“I personally like the element of surprise,” she said.
Malcolm also said he’s not interested in carrying a gun openly.
“It just advertises to people that you’re carrying,” he said.
Unlike the concealed-carry law, the open-carry ordinance passed by the Overland Park City Council in September made no provisions for a training class or any type of licensing requirement.

City officials said they acted to forestall legal action by the Libertarian Party of Kansas.

But after a large amount of negative feedback from citizens, council members asked the city legal department to consider requiring the same kind of restrictions on open carry as those for concealed carry.

Jim Hix, a council member and chairman of the city’s public safety committee, said he believed that would be a reasonable way to address public concerns without curtailing the rights of law-abiding citizens who choose to carry a weapon.
But after discussing the possible changes at a Nov. 14 public safety committee meeting, council members on the committee decided to seek an additional opinion from the attorney general’s office.

“Whatever we do, we want to do it right,” Hix said at the meeting that night.
Overland Park resident J.R. Kinsella was one of those who attended the public safety committee meeting that night. Kinsella, who owns guns and has been a lifelong hunter, thinks people walking the streets armed “is just silly.”

“Just because you have a gun doesn’t mean you’re going to be safe,” he said. “I feel very uneasy being around somebody who is carrying a gun.”

To Owens, who served on the Overland Park City Council before being elected to the Kansas House and later the state Senate, the fact that the topic is even being debated is exasperating.

With his military background, Owens said he is familiar with and has nothing against guns per se.

It’s just that he thinks the whole idea that people in Johnson County need weapons to protect themselves from crime is unfounded.

“There’s a lot of fear and anxiety out there,” he said.
But in the “overall scheme of things,” the odds of being a crime victim in Johnson County are pretty slim, he said.

Owens quoted Franklin Roosevelt when discussing the situation: “All we have to fear is fear itself.”

But for Robin Witt, a Merriam resident who obtained her concealed-carry permit this summer, crime is not just theoretical.

Her adult daughter, who lives in Overland Park, has been the victim of a home break-in and her car has been stolen. That prompted Witt to put aside her fear of guns and sign herself and her daughter up for the eight-hour training course.

“I had never shot a gun before. Never even held one,” Witt said. “Now if I need to protect myself I know how to. I’m not scared anymore.”

She said she has no problem with people being allowed to openly carry a gun, but she thinks they should be subject to criminal background checks and at least receive the same kind of training required of concealed-carry permit holders.

“There are so many people who shouldn’t be who are out walking around” with guns, she said.

Owens agrees that anyone carrying a weapon in public should have training, although he thinks the eight-hour course is just a bare minimum.

He agrees with Mosher that before someone makes the decision to carry a gun, they have to consider the ramifications of using it.

“They have to understand what it would take to really do that,” Owens said. “It affects you.”

But to Stoneking, the right to defend oneself is an absolute right. Those who have chosen to carry weapons are taking personal responsibility for their own protection, she said.

“Do we want to legislate personal responsibility?” she said.
Johnson County Sheriff Frank Denning said that the advent of concealed carry has been a “non-issue” from a law officer’s perspective.

He said officers on the street have always had to be cautious because they never know if they are dealing with a criminal who is carrying a gun illegally. Those people are not going to bother with complying with the law are the ones who pose a risk to officers.

“The citizens who choose to legally exercise their Second Amendment rights, who go through the training, don’t pose a threat to the police,” he said.

Likewise with the open-carry issue, Denning doesn’t foresee any problems.
“We haven’t seen any before,” he said. “And I don’t think we’ll see any now.”

Read more here: http://joco913.com/news/armed-and-not-dangerous/#storylink=cpy

Ace Gunner
12-12-2012, 12:23 PM
this is a victory for the conservative american.

The_Doctor10
12-12-2012, 12:40 PM
We should be more like Canada?

You say that like it's a bad thing. Keep your football fields the way they are, just be nicer.

The_Doctor10
12-12-2012, 12:44 PM
the cowards that often do the shooting of innocents, do it in malls, theaters and other places that DON'T ALLOW FIREARMS. law abiding, responsible gun owners are forced to leave their weapons in the car, or at home. a concept the gun grabbers don't quite comprehend. its proof right there that the psychos who are going to pull one of these shoot em up stunts don't pay attention to the law. they totally ignore the fact that a responsible and well trained gun owner could save lives in these situations, if they were allowed to be armed. If i'm in a situation where somebody is spraying an AK-47 all over, i hope there is at least one person armed with a handgun, who knows how to use it.

Fair enough.

I will say this, I don't believe that any of these mass shootings are true gun issues. The media likes to make them gun issues, but at their cores, they are mental health issues. ANd nobody on either side ever talks about this. It's like trying to crack down on speeding by writing more jaywalking tickets.

HemiEd
12-12-2012, 12:48 PM
You say that like it's a bad thing. Keep your football fields the way they are, just be nicer.

Well you threw the first rock. I wouldn't consider trading the way things are with Canada. It's a nice place to visit, but wouldn't want to live there.

rockymtnchief
05-28-2013, 09:53 AM
So I went back to see how things are taking shape in Illinois. Any updates?

A few comments that caught my eye:
The bill requires 16 hours of training with three hours on range. So they will not honor ANY other state!
They MUST pass something by Jun 7th!
Still has to pass in the Senate, where any pro-gun legislation goes to die in Illinois.
They'll just make it so hard to get a permit only the mayor of Chicago and the governor will be able to get one.

Frazod
05-28-2013, 10:14 AM
So I went back to see how things are taking shape in Illinois. Any updates?

A few comments that caught my eye:
The bill requires 16 hours of training with three hours on range. So they will not honor ANY other state!
They MUST pass something by Jun 7th!
Still has to pass in the Senate, where any pro-gun legislation goes to die in Illinois.
They'll just make it so hard to get a permit only the mayor of Chicago and the governor will be able to get one.

Who knows how this will hash out - the requirements at this point are ridiculous. 16 hours of training where? When? At what cost?

The good news is the pro-gun forces are highly organized, and the anti-gun dickbags seem to be in disarray right now. I think it's hard for them to argue their restrictive laws are working when parts of Chicago are more dangerous than Somalia.

Hog Rider
05-28-2013, 10:17 AM
http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showforum=6


In case you want updates.

Frazod
05-28-2013, 10:18 AM
http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showforum=6


In case you want updates.

Thanks. :thumb:

rockymtnchief
05-28-2013, 10:28 AM
http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showforum=6


In case you want updates.

:thumb:

Anyway, good luck.

crispystl420
05-28-2013, 07:30 PM
"Persons known for shooting un-armed appliances will not be allowed weapons in Illinois." Article 37 of the Illinois gun code.

"However all armed appliances are considered viable threats and may dispatched in any manner necessary"

crossbow
05-28-2013, 07:50 PM
I lived in that state for ten years. It is as corrupt as any if not the most corrupted of them all. People tried to have town meetings to get control of their lives back from the local politicians but they would always get out maneuvered somehow and get screwed in the end. It was the same story all the way up to the senate. I finally had enough and moved to Missouri.

Missouri isn't perfect either but at least they aren't as bad as those Mafia creeps in Illinois.

TribalElder
05-28-2013, 08:39 PM
Countdown to reciprocity

Frazod
05-28-2013, 08:46 PM
I lived in that state for ten years. It is as corrupt as any if not the most corrupted of them all. People tried to have town meetings to get control of their lives back from the local politicians but they would always get out maneuvered somehow and get screwed in the end. It was the same story all the way up to the senate. I finally had enough and moved to Missouri.

Missouri isn't perfect either but at least they aren't as bad as those Mafia creeps in Illinois.

Yeah, it's pretty bad. The senate wouldn't even bring the bill that was passed by the house up for discussion - they'll do everything in their power to gut it, make it take forever to get a CCL, make it ridiculously expensive, and restrict it to the point that you can only carry a gun in places you don't need to. And of course, they'll keep the third world shithole otherwise known as Chicago as deadly as possible. Cullerton is horrible.

I just hope court challenges can beat these scumbags back. It's possible some of these restrictions/qualifications will be struck down.

crossbow
05-28-2013, 09:13 PM
The average Joe Six-pack can't compete with special interest groups and their cash so he has zero representation.

Lzen
05-28-2013, 09:50 PM
Who knows how this will hash out - the requirements at this point are ridiculous. 16 hours of training where? When? At what cost?

The good news is the pro-gun forces are highly organized, and the anti-gun dickbags seem to be in disarray right now. I think it's hard for them to argue their restrictive laws are working when parts of Chicago are more dangerous than Somalia.

I haven't followed this thread so this may have already been answered, but how can they think that requiring 16 hours is constitutional?

Frazod
05-28-2013, 09:59 PM
I haven't followed this thread so this may have already been answered, but how can they think that requiring 16 hours is constitutional?

If they get their way, we'll end up with a handful of "accredited" trainers, the courses will cost hundreds of dollars (in addition to the $150 application fee) and the wait to get trained and approved will likely be years. The obvious goal is to make legally carrying a gun impossible for those who need to do it the most. And thousands of ghetto thugs will still be safely shooting up the city.

go bowe
05-28-2013, 10:13 PM
Am I missing all the endings to these mass shootings where an honorable John McClain type citizen prevents the loss of innocent lives by taking one of these fucktards out? Or do they just kill dozens of people before either offing themselves or surrendering to police?

Here's a thought, be less fucked up as a society in general. Just to see what happens.

ya know, if florida was part of canada, i'd move there...

ThatRaceCardGuy
05-28-2013, 10:46 PM
Suck it, socialists

This is why America has gone to shit.

WhiteWhale
05-29-2013, 06:05 AM
Conceal and carry lowers gun crime.

There are, you know, actual stats to back this up. Empowering legal gun owners lowers gun crime. Empowering illegal gun owners by burdening legal gun owners increases gun crime.

Seems we, as a society, should just roll with what gives us positive results.

AphexPhin
05-29-2013, 06:12 AM
great news imo

rockymtnchief
05-29-2013, 06:33 AM
Conceal and carry lowers gun crime.

There are, you know, actual stats to back this up. Empowering legal gun owners lowers gun crime. Empowering illegal gun owners by burdening legal gun owners increases gun crime.

Seems we, as a society, should just roll with what gives us positive results.

Politicians lack common sense or the ability to comprehend stats. They only know power and greed. What applies to you and I, doesn't apply to them.

Frazod
05-29-2013, 08:38 AM
Politicians lack common sense or the ability to comprehend stats. They only know power and greed. What applies to you and I, doesn't apply to them.

It's not that - they know exactly what they're doing. Liberals want their base scared. They want them stupid, they want them poor. Why?

Because scared, stupid, poor people vote for liberals.

rockymtnchief
05-29-2013, 09:07 AM
It's not that - they know exactly what they're doing. Liberals want their base scared. They want them stupid, they want them poor. Why?

Because scared, stupid, poor people vote for liberals.

I agree with that also. Especially, the scared aspect.

I mentioned a while back on one of the "conspiracies" going on in Chicago, LA, New York, DC. These cities are all at the bottom of the list in Federal prosecution of gun crimes. They want the crime rate to stay up so they have ammo in the fight for gun control. They want voters afraid of guns and crime.

loochy
05-29-2013, 09:08 AM
This is why America has gone to shit.

Because of suck it socialists?

I thought it was because of laziness stemming from excessively abundant resources from a formerly booming economy, lack of leadership from earlier generations (1960s onward), and lack of moral and ethical behavior combined with excessive corruption and greed in the government.

Hog Rider
05-29-2013, 10:50 AM
Countdown to reciprocity

Reciprocity will be highly unlikely. They are making it hard for us to carry - they sure as beaver tails won't want any out-of-staters carrying.

You'll have to apply for Illinois carry. $300.00 for out-o-state, plus expenses getting trained.

Raiderhader
05-29-2013, 11:16 AM
Yeah, it's pretty bad. The senate wouldn't even bring the bill that was passed by the house up for discussion - they'll do everything in their power to gut it, make it take forever to get a CCL, make it ridiculously expensive, and restrict it to the point that you can only carry a gun in places you don't need to. And of course, they'll keep the third world shithole otherwise known as Chicago as deadly as possible. Cullerton is horrible.

I just hope court challenges can beat these scumbags back. It's possible some of these restrictions/qualifications will be struck down.

I have not followed this all that closely but, from what I have read you want as much partisanship as possible to ensure the death of this bill. Thus giving you the MUCH better constitutional carry when they fail to make the dead line here in a week or two.

Unless I'm missing something......

Thig Lyfe
05-29-2013, 11:31 AM
Bought these pants to conceal all my guns in!!!

http://bigmada.com/storage/remember/hammer_pants.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1259208574991