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Frazod
12-13-2012, 06:51 PM
I don't remember if this was ever posted here - if it was, I don't remember it.

Very long, informative, and depressing.

http://spaces.covers.com/blog/MaximumWins/NFL/03042012-Reasons-Why-The-NFL-Is-Fixed-For-Profit.html

MaximumWins's Blog
Reasons Why The NFL Is Fixed For Profit

By MaximumWins | View all Posts
Posted Saturday, March 03, 2012 11:41 PM 22 comments
First off, I'm going to begin this blog by stating that I don't have any intentions on changing anyone's mind about the NFL. Nor am I trying to start an argument about who is right and who is wrong.

I already know everyone's argument of "It takes too many people to rig a game", and the all time classic with no viable facts, "They make too much money, why would they jeopardize it?" Arguing about the nature of such things is like arguing about religion and politics. There is no point.

I'm just going to point out several observations I have made over the last few years about the NFL and state my case for why I think the NFL fixes their own games for profit. So if you are already on the defensive ready to discredit all of the evidence I am about display without actually bringing up facts that go against my arguments (like a normal discussion should be) then move on.

So if you have any documented facts, I would like to hear them. If you agree with me afterwards great, if you don't that's cool too, follow me on Twitter @shark702 and we can continue the discussion there. But again, let's talk, not insult each other. If you are the type of person who hates being lied to, was upset to find out as a kid that Santa wasn't real and that WWE is fake than please read on and I would love to hear your opinions.

OK, so if you are ready to take the Red Pill, let's see how deep the rabbit hole goes...

I've been handicapping the NFL for about 10 years now using mathematical analysis of teams, point spreads, specific outcomes and algebra, specifically relating to the calculation of probability where P(X=K)=(n/k)P^k(q)(n-k) and (n/k) = n!/k!(n-k)!, accounting for injuries, and incorporating Power Ratings which I developed from a simple Grade Scale A-F with the best NFL team receiving an A and the worst receiving an F. I was able to amass several consistent 60% ATS betting seasons. This process I found to be long and arduous and caused me great mental stress after a certain period of time.

But one day, during the 2009 season, something happened that changed it all. Now I've had my share of bad beats up until then. Some of these bad beats were too good to be true i.e The Tuck Rule Game. Several coincidences happened that just seemed to good to be true. The New England Patriots post 9/11 run, the Saints erasing 40 years of negative football history post Katrina, the Manning Families dynasty, just to name a few.

Now if you believe in random coincidence that's fine, but when they happen on multiple occasions over and over and over than it's time to do a little research. Ralph Waldo Emerson once said "Shallow men believe in Luck, strong men believe in cause and effect".

So during a game between the Pittsburgh Steelers and the San Diego Chargers the Steelers were favored by 3. Nearly 70 percent of the betting public was on Pittsburgh, with a reported $100 million in potential earnings. The score with less than a minute to go, 11-10 Pittsburgh and SD with the ball. After an errant lateral gets knocked away by Troy Polamalu, he scoops it and scores. The score is now 17-10, there is no time left, all teams head to the locker room, fans go to cash their tickets.

After several minutes of debate, the refs overturn the call, restoring a meaningless TD off the board making the final score 11-10, the Steelers win, the public loses. What I found to be most odd about it is the league's explanation of a "forward pass". The pass was ruled forward although it is obvious it was a backwards lateral. When I got home, I starting thinking that things were just to good to be true.

Sportscenter reported the money lost in Vegas and almost joked about it. They were literally laughing. So after this bad beat, I held around some serious thoughts about the legitimacy of pro football.

An opportunity came up in my graduate school where I was to write my project on any topic I was to choose. So I chose researching the "Showbiz manipulations of the NFL". I picked up several books including Dan Moldea's "Interference: How Organized Crimes Influence Professional Football", Brian Touhy's "The Fix Is In" , Roger L. Martins "Fixing the Game". I checked out several TV Marketing books from the college library and also several TV Business books.

I utilized my rights under the Freedom of Information Act passed by President Lyndon Johnson in 1966 to access over 40 years of FBI files on the NFL although some information was redacted. Here's what I found:

1. Contrary to popular belief and to what he NFL wants you to think, there have been fixed games in league history. On page 308 of Dan Moldea's book "Interference" he lists over 70 NFL games that have been fixed and includes the names of the 2 referees involved in fixing those games. He also lists interviews with NFL HOF players most notably KC Chiefs QB Len Dawson. He, in detail with documented facts supported by FBI documents, has interviews with NFL players and known gambling associates to uncover massive game fixing in the league. He also notes, with evidence, throughout the book that no fewer than 26 NFL team owners have or have had continuous and developing relationships with the gambling world, most notably the Rooney, Bidwill, and Mara families all getting their starts as Bookmakers for established mid-west crime families and buying their NFL franchises with moneys earned from gambling. So that in and of itself is a hypocrisy number 1 on the NFL's "lilly white" reputation.

NFL Referees are part-time employees of the NFL. They are not employees of any team nor do they get paid anywhere close to the sums of NBA refs. NFL refs make between $25K to $70K per season. They work for the league and do what the league tells them to do. They are not there for "the integrity of the game". Referees, unlike other sports, are bound by NFL mandated gag orders which prevent them from talking to the media.

2. The NFL possesses an Anti-Trust Exemption to the law granted to it by President John F. Kennedy, which ultimately allows the NFL to classify itself as "entertainment" rather than sport, as well as incorporate itself as a single entity instead of the 32 separate "franchises" they would want you to believe. Contrary to the perception of the NFL being 32 separate franchises battling it out for gridiron supremacy. In a franchised environment, such as McDonalds (Business 101), each franchise is individually owned and operated and can participate in national promotions, have its own local promotions, or abstain from participating (hence the fine print in commercials saying "at participating locations".

This keeps the regionality of competition in tact without having to compete on a national level. MLB has this status, the NFL does not. Instead, since the NFL has this Anti-Trust exemption, it is able to package its teams in order to sell to national television companies, which today totals $6 Billion in revenue for the league. That is 75% of the leagues total annual revenue. In a 2004 lawsuit vs the NFL, the NFL attorney Gregg H. Levy argued that "the NFL is not a collection of 32 individual teams, but rather a single entity. And as long as the NFL teams are a unit, and they compete as a unit in the entertainment marketplace, then they should be deemed a single unit and not subject to any Anti-Trust laws."

There is only another "sports" organization that I can think of that follows this, the WWE. Levy also argued that the league markets its products and merchandise as a whole to promote the NFL as a whole. These arguments led all the way to lockout during the 2011 offseason. The league would still earn $5 Billion in revenue, even without a single game being played.

Professional sports is the only industry without ANY federal oversight. Therefore the league can do and go as they see fit, this is something the players were concerned about going into the lockout, the NFL players themselves sought help from US Congress asking for oversight of the NFL. And NFL players wanted an explanation as to why the NFL owners were granted an Anti-Trust exemption in the first place. They didn't get it.

The NFL proved in this lawsuit that they see themselves as a single unit in the "entertainment" industry and the unique league revenue sharing strategy is not common amongst professional sports leagues.

3. Players are paid to play, not win. There is this notion that NFL players play for "the gory of the game" and all this other propaganda that the NFL wants you to absorb. But nothing could be further from the truth. Although there is a percentage of players who play for the love of the game, most play for the money and fame. So keeping this in mind, players earn their salary by playing, not winning. It makes no difference to a player, paycheck wise, if he wins or loses as he will still be richer than the average person. Not to mention the ridiculous amount of morons that encompass the NFL as murderers, rapists, drug addicts, gamblers, womanizers, tramps, dog fighters, thugs and gangsters, ex cons, I could go on.

It only take a coach, and the referees to provide an outcome to the NFL's liking. Therefore, players play and get paid, and as long as they keep their mouth shut they will be rewarded if such privileged info were to cross their path. Most American men have played football on some level which brings about the notion "I played football and I've never been asked to fix a game, therefore there is no way an NFL game would be fixed".

But an FBI investigation revealed that several KC Chiefs games were taken off of Las Vegas sports book boards for "suspicion of game fixing" and several Las Vegas sports book directors revealed "games were indeed fixed".

NFL HOFer Paul Hornung and Alex Karas were suspended from the league for an entire season for gambling and participating in potential game fixing, only after the information was made public and scrutiny ensued, not because NFL commissioner Pete Rozell was actively "protecting the integrity of the game".

It took Packers HC Vince Lombardi to call in a favor to get them reinstated into the NFL. Thus NFL security was born. Just ask yourself...what billion dollar business would allow their profits to be at the hands of uneducated, black, youth? Not one single American business. Businesses ensure that a dollar is made and they don't entrust their livelihood in them. It's just not rational nor good business and no business in the history of business does this.

A McDonald's burger flipper either does what he is told or he is gone, plain and simple. Burgers still get sold. America still gets fat.

4. NFL Security is a reactionary force design to cover up the NFL's problems. After the Hornung issue, the league instituted NFL security and hired former FBI agents and local law enforcement. Their job is to keep any and all stories under wraps and to clean up as many messes as they can. They DO NOT and I repeat, DO NOT do any actual proactive investigating. The NFL commissioner works for the NFL owners, therefore he is exempt from any investigating as well as the owners. Which is why you hear little of the NFL owners illegal gambling ties.

In Dan Moldea's book, it is clearly indicated by interviews with former members of NFL Security that they don't do any actual work until there is a tip. No tip, no work. In the FBI's files of investigations on the likes of Vick, Ray Caruth, etc. a common theme takes place in that, the FBI is investigating these players for other things and information pops up during the course of the investigation that could be detrimental to the NFL and then it is forwarded to NFL security. Then they being work, hence reactionary. Then ultimately they get bombarded with work that is useless and only provides good copy for which the league can say "we are protecting the integrity of the game", case in point, the recent "Bounties" on the Saints from 09-11. This is a nonsense story that is an attempt to steer you away from what is really going on and provide perception that the game is clean.

But yesterday I received a tweet from Damien Woody that said specifically "Bounties are common place in NFL, no big deal". NFL Security also fails to catch real criminals, see Sam Hurd, Jerome Simpson, etc. The NFL Security simply put, is a reactionary force engaged in monitoring player activity and providing damage control in the event of leaked information.

5. Video taping other teams' plays is common practice in the NFL. In 2007 as we all know, SpyGate rocked the NFL world. The Patriots were caught red-handed video taping the Jets plays and signals. The NFL and NFL Security went into damage control by destroying the supposed "only tape" and quickly fired and destroyed the reputation of videographer Matt Walsh. Destroying the tape is a felony as it contributes to obstruction of justice laws as well as tampering with evidence. Another, lowly touted "SpyGate" occurrence popped up in 2010 when Josh McDaniels was caught filming 49ers practices and hand signals. A tip to NFL security led to an investigation of the Broncos and all members involved were eventually fired.

Why were there 2 instances? Once is an accident, two is a trend? I'm inclined to believe that this is common practice in the NFL. But where are the handcuffs on Goodell? They don't exist. Because it would only be illegal if game fixing was occurring in actual sports. Since the NFL argues that they are "entertainment" , than they are in charge of the outcome of their own games and can "produce" their television product how they see fit.

In 2007 a Jets season ticket holder sued the NFL for $185 million and the case reached the US Supreme Court. The court documents are available online at http://thefixisin.net/resources/precendential+opinion.pdf. The Jets fan argued that, all Jets fans are entitled to refunds because they paid for a ticket to a legitimate sporting event. Had he been aware that the games were not real then we would not have gone.

The NFL's attorneys argued that the fan simply "purchased a ticket which gives him a contractual right to a seat in a stadium to watch an NFL game between the Patriots and Jets, and this right was honored." More, Senior Judge Robert E. Cowen agreed stating that a ticket to a game only provides you access to the stadium and nothing more. The fan entered the stadium, witnessed an NFL game, therefore he did not suffer any damages to legally protected right or interest. The fan's lawyer, Bruce Afran disagreed and argued that the NFL committed consumer fraud saying "This seems to suggest that no matter how much ticker holders pay, they can be frauded by NFL teams which puts the NFL on the same level as professional wrestling".

Afran is correct in his judgement based on the interpretation of game fixing laws. A team can't fix their own games for gambling purposes, nor can they fix an intellectual contest (a ruling based n the Quiz Show scandal of the 1950s) But judges ruled that fixing a game for entertainment purposes was completely LEGAL NFL Attorney Shephard Goldfein actually argued in court supporting this argument saying "fans would likely still buy tickets even if they knew teams were stealing signals" In other word, the NFL knows you will still pay to see football even if you knew it was fake because you love football.

Much like pro wrestling. The Supreme Court threw the case out in favor of the NFL which ultimately makes it legal to fix your own games for entertainment purposes.

6. TV Ratings are more important than fans in the stadium. NFL officials, according to FBI files are quoted as saying " the NFL will continue to profit, even with empty stadiums. NFL games can even be filmed in studios to make a profit". TV is the lifeblood of any sport. Get on TV and you will survive somehow. If you are not on TV you are dead. TV Networks pay huge sums of money to the NFL for the rights to broadcast these games. Estimates of TV revenue exceed $6 Billion. Television stations make this money back plus a profit by advertising dollars.

This is why ratings are so important. Ratings = $$ because advertisers pay big money to advertise on the program. Marketing 101 tells us that television networks pay for the rights to broadcast NFL games, the NFL sells these games to Big TV as we will call them. The NFL gets paid up front. Now Big TV is in a deep whole. Big TV goes out to advertisers and sells ad spots during the game and any other NFL themed programming. Big TV promises the advertiser that X number of people will tune into the game each week and that those people will in turn by their product. Some Big TV executives even boldly predict as to the conversion rate of the people watching the games. If, for whatever reason, the resulting TV rating isn't what Big TV promised to the advertiser, Big TV has to pay the advertiser a refund.

Knowing this, do you really think Big TV wants to pay refunds? And this is a win-win situation for the league. The league wants more exciting games, Big TV wants their viewers, everyone gets paid. In a 2010 article, ProFootballTalk.com tells of a situation in which ESPN executives were giving play directions to then Titans coach Jeff Fisher and directed on how to conduct the game. Now who is really in control? You can read that article here: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/19/chris-johnsons-fantasy-owners-should-thank-espn-jack-del-rio/

7. Owners business dealings result in wins and losses, Super Bowls are rewarded not earned through play. There are several cases for every single Super Bowl as mentioned in the book The Fix Is In by Brian Tuohy. But we will focus on just a few here. In 1969 Super Bowl III was the greatest upset in NFL history, but was it really? The league was merging with the AFL and there was growing sentiment among the NFL faithful that this business deal was going to fail because of the supposed "inferior" play by the AFL.

The Green Bay Packers had demolished the KC Chiefs and Oakland Raiders in SB I and II. The Baltimore Colts were steamrolling opponents in the NFL with an all-time high 18 points per game win margin. The Jets beat Oakland in the AFL title game but by no means were a power house and were double-digit underdogs. Another AFL loss in the big game would spell doom for the league and it's billion dollar merger. Magically, the Colts played their worst game of their lives with 5 turnovers and getting shut down 16-7.

Bubba Smith was reported saying in a 1969 Playboy interview, "It felt like it was fixed for the Jets to win. Something just seemed weird with the way our offense was doing." This victory for the Jets was vital for the NFL as it sold the public on the AFL being a viable league thus completing the merger and building the NFL we know today. It was also reported that Baltimore Colts owner, Carroll Rosenbloom, bet $1 million on the game. Without the Jets winning, we may have a different NFL today. You can watch Super Bowl 3 and judge for yourself at http://youtu.be/iMjlCuJKQ2c .

In 2000 Art Model, a storied and respected owner of the Baltimore Ravens announced he was selling the team. Miraculously, even with one of the worst offenses in NFL history, and one of the best defenses, won the Super Bowl. And the Ravens were subsequently sold to Steve Busciotti for a record price. What better way to sell a team but to hype it up so much that you can get the highest price for it?

Don't believe this story? Well how about during the 2011 season the Jacksonville Jaguars announce they are for sale. They are featured (for some strange reason) on several prime time games. Which culminated in one of the biggest fixes in NFL history in the "upset" of the Ravens on MNF 12-7. The Ravens magically looked inept, stupid and pitiful as the Jags won by scoring 4 field goals. The following week the team was sold. And finally, the other item I will mention.

Robert Kraft and John Mara are two of the most business savvy and highly respected NFL owners. Kraft is in charge of the NFL TV broadcast committee and also leads all television negotiations for the NFL. Kraft also is on the board of directors for Viacom, the parent company of CBS, one of NFL's broadcasters. This past Spring, Robert Kraft negotiated a record TV deal for the NFL which will result in $24 Billion in revenue with CBS, FOX, ESPN and NBC. Kraft and Mara also brought both parties to the table and led all negotiations in ending the lockout.

Lastly, Robert Kraft and Las Vegas casino mogul Steve Wynn plan on opening a casino resort across the street from Gillette Stadium. Is it magic that these two owners who have done so much for the league over the last 20 years magically found themselves playing each other in the Super Bowl? Not to mention all of the nostalgic history between Belichik and Coughlin being former Giants coaches. Sometimes the NFL even mocks you by telling you this as they ran a 4 minute piece on the NFL pre-game show before the Super Bowl telling you all these things.

Atlanta Falcons owner Arthur Blank was interviewed saying "It is predetermined that these two teams would be here, I wish my team was selected to be in the Super Bowl one day, but these two gentlemen deserve it". And the Giants posted themselves as victors before the game, the NFL claimed it was "an overzealous employee".

The 49ers need a new stadium, with the same players as Mike Singletary, and a Alex Smith in a contract year, the 49ers post a 13-3 record and make it to the NFC Championship. But what they don't tell you is how the stadium deal is structured. 80% of the funding comes from Bank of America and US Bank. 20% financed by the State of California using tax dollars.

The 49ers have pledged to pay back the State in 5 seasons with help from revenue sharing from NFL owners. What better way to pay someone back quickly than with packed stadiums and extra playoff game revenue.

On MNF they found themselves in a blackout. Steelers safety Ryan Clark said "it was to show the league they need a new stadium and the 49ers caused the blackout". Why would he say this if shadiness wasn't common practice? You can view his opinions here: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/990842-ryan-clark-accuses-san-francisco-of-staging-power-outages-is-he-off-his-rocker.

Ravens players complained that the 2007 Patriots were " being handed games by refs" in their quest for perfection. And I have over 40 years of information on NFL business dealings and how these owners "miraculously" found themselves holding the Lombardi Trophy.

Let's look at the 2011 season and see how television ratings connected with some of the league's most important games, and quickly view how the referees controlled games.

Week 1: NFL Announces ESPN will pay $1billion per game of MNF through the 2021 season. In a tribute to 9/11 20 million + viewers tuned in as the Jets mounted a magic 14 point comeback over the Cowboys. Number of penalties called the Jets = 0

Week 2: The NFL's rule changes make for a more exciting game as scoring is way up. Much like the AFL days of the 60's, 72% of the games went over the total and TV ratings are now through the roof. The league emphasises "the year of the QB".

Week 3: Packers vs Bears: The Bears return a punt return for a TD which would've ultimately allowed them to cover the spread. Instead a fantom holding call overturned the TD. It was the 10th penalty of the game for the Bears vs. 1 penalty for the Packers. You can see the play here: http://youtu.be/_w-pXfjbYHk

Week 6: The Beginning of the Tim Tebow Era. Tim Tebow has a HUGE, and I mean HUGE Christian following. The guy can't hit a barn, but a decent athlete. Yet as the third string QB he is thrust into the starting role and the team magically "changes the entire offense" in a matter of weeks to suit him? Tebow was the number 1 jersey seller for the league without even stepping foot on the field. It was time to make him a star and they did ripping off several "magical" victories with poultry statistics. These teams were handing them games. If you didn't notice this, all I need to say it two words : Marion Barber. All the while the NFL is forcing religion down our throats with God's quarterback.

Week 7: The Jags are close to a sale, the possible new owners just need one more hint of encouragement to prevent buyers remorse. In come the Ravens. After the Saints destruction of the Colts on SNF. Vegas was in trouble. ESPN was in trouble because no one was going to watch this snore fest. The Ravens didn't get a first down until late in the fourth quarter and the Jags win with 4 FG's. Sale complete, Vegas wins. You lose.

Week 9: The suck for Luck campaign begins in Indianapolis. No team has ever hosted a Super Bowl as a competitor. This would continue to be the case as Manning is out and the Colts are terrible. And the Super Bowl is where this season? You guessed it, Indianapolis. Who won the Super Bowl in Payton's place? Magically, his brother Eli. Don't you just love fairy tales?

The NFL admits in this article: http://thefixisin.net/nytimes.html that QB's drive ratings and that is the number one goal.

Week 13: With the Broncos tied with the Vikings 32-32, NFL.com posted a headline "The Broncos are down 3 points to the Vikings, expect fireworks from Tim Tebow". But the game was already tied. The Broncos magically won the game and Tebow had one of his better passing performances. What did the NFL know that you didn't?

Week 14: Referees miss a blatant facemask call in the Vikings/Lions game that should have resulted in an additional play for the Vikings, instead the game was over and the Lions won the game. It was a must win game for the Lions. And magically, the Replay operating system went down in two stadiums on the same day at the same time, during the Raiders/Packers game and the 49ers/Cardinals game. This ultimately cost the Cardinals a chance to win the game as a touchdown was not confirmed. In an HBO Real Sports interview, Roger Goodell is awkwardly showing cameras in NFL headquarters showing the Referee screening room with hundreds of monitors viewing all of the games at once. Do they control the games from this HQ?

Week 16: In Gregg Easterbrook's TMQ December 27th article he says "What did the NFL know and when did they know it? Just after Tom Brady ran for a TD to make the score 27-17 NE, with 3 minutes remaining in the game, NFL.com posted a highlight tag and a headline that said "Brady puts Patriots up for Good". That was the NFL official word with 3 minutes left in the game! Also on MFN, the Saints were playing the Falcons in what was going to be the game in which Drew Brees would break Dan Marino's passing record. The league stopped the game to celebrate the moment. The Saints had 0 penalties called on them all game, and the Falcons went for it on 4th down in their own territory twice, losing both times! And magically Brees broke the record on a TD pass and all of the players and camera crews knew exactly when they were going to break the record and magically celebrated at the same time. Even more interesting during this game, the Saints were initially called for holding in the end zone which should have resulted in a Safety, but the head referee overturned the call saying "The offensive player was shedding the defender, therefore no holding occurred".

Week 17: In this Denver post article, you can see how profitable Tim Tebow is to the league: http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_19654087 Magically, the 8-8 Broncos made the playoffs.

Wild Card Weekend: The Broncos magically beat the #1 defense in the league, the Pittsburgh Steelers to secure another round of ratings and profit. And for another "coincidence" according the NFL's communications website, NFLcommunications.com, the Divisional round matchups will be rematches of some of the highest rated regular season games of the year. Patriots vs Broncos was the #4 highest rated TV program of the year and NY Giants vs. Green Bay Packers was the #3 highest rated TV program of the year. Each game drawing 30 million viewers. There was video of Steelers LB James Farrior winking at Tim Tebow during the overtime coin toss.This YouTube channel video was eventual pulled by the NFL and Youtube. Why? Why did the NFL force Youtube to pull this video? Why is he winking? Is he saying "don't worry kid, just throw the ball, we will lay down for ya."

The NFL has removed a video from YouTube of the Bengals/Texans game where CBS announcer Jim Nance discusses the Bengals going for it on 4th down as they were lining up in punt formation. He says "And the Bengals will go for it here on 4th down". Then MAGICALLY Houston calls a Time Out and the Bengals come back out onto the field and go for it on 4th down. Dalton gets rushed and throws an incomplete pass. Turnover on downs. Magic.

Divisional Round: 49ers vs. Saints= 0 holding penalties called on the Saints after 60 pass attempts. Ravens = 0 overall penalties vs. the Texans, The Greg Jennings obvious fumble overturned to a "non-fumble". And is it a coincidence that the NFL has teams in Americas top 6 media markets, New York, Chicago, Boston, Baltimore/DC, and San Francisco. Which 4 teams are alive? New York, San Franscisco, Baltimore and New England (Boston).

Championship Sunday: Out of the 45 previous Super Bowls played, the NFL listed a poll of "which is your favorite Super Bowl ever" before the NFC/AFC championship games, one of the selections was Super Bowl XLII with New England and New York getting the most votes. Magically, this was Super Bowl XLVI's matchup. Magically Lee Evans drops a wide open TD that would send the Ravens to the Super Bowl and create a legacy for Flacco. But Flacco has been running his mouth, it's not his time. THEN Cundiff "Magically" shanks a 32 yard FG saying "the scoreboard wasn't correct, I didn't know what down it was" C'mon.

Super Bowl XLVI: Big TV charged advertisers a historical record $4 million per commercial for the Super Bowl and they got every penny worth. Never mind the fact that the NFL told you the day before who the champion would be, check out this link : http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/04/giants-website-says-they-are-super-bowl-champions/related/

Robert Kraft gets his billion $ TV deal and his casino, the Mara's get their SB and the league splits 80% of the record profits and Roger Goodel gets $20 million a year in salary! They hoped you enjoyed their "presentation of the National Football League".

The Green Bay Packers and the New Orleans Saints did not have a holding penalty called on their teams until week 13. Week 13! These are verifiable stats that anyone can look up.

Still don't believe me after all of that proof? Let's quickly revisit some items from 2010.

2010 Week 7: Dolphins vs Steelers: Big Ben fumbles on his way to the endzone late in the 4th quarter. It's recovered by the Dolphins in the endzone but the referees went to replay and concluded that they could not determine "who" recovered the ball for the Dolphins, therefore the STEELERS get the ball on the 1 yard line. Ultimately they scored the game winning TD and the Dolphins were done.

2010: The Bucs and the Jags were the only two teams to suffer blackouts due to non attendance but the Bucs were the only team to have not sold out a single home game during the season. But since the NFL has to succeed as a single unit, these two teams were in playoff contention to maximize LEAGUE profits.

Lastly, the next argument I get from naysayers is "If it was fixed, someone would have investigated it and it would've come out". Well for the most part in a perfect world you are right. And this has happened. In Europe the BBC reports that over 300 games per year are fixed in UEFA. This article explains in detail: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/8379251.stm And UEFA is still the world's number 1 league. But unlike Europe the press isn't owned by the television network and the league. In America, the NFL because of the financial obligation pretty much owns ESPN, CBS, NBC and Fox. They hold all the cards. So if any reporter were to investigate these things, and actually find something and report it, they would be committing career suicide and risk possible ostricizing from the journalism community and reputational detriment on behalf of these networks. People have mouths to feed, they are going to risk that to report on game fixing. No one is going to kill the Golden Goose. No one.

There are many other examples. Too many to list here. As well as the thousands of pages of FBI files on the NFL and it's behavior over the last 40 years. I recommend if you have an open mind, are sick of being lied to, and know that everything always isn't what TV says it is then purchase and read the books I mentioned earlier. You know what you are seeing on the television. Don't let other people steer you away from what you know you saw on TV. As T.O. once said "If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, quacks like a duck...."

Let me know what you think, follow me on twitter @shark702.

stonedstooge
12-13-2012, 06:58 PM
Makes my head hurt trying to read all that corruption

Bugeater
12-13-2012, 07:15 PM
Damn, I tried to finish this but it is so horribly written I can't take the guy seriously. And he used bleacherreport.com for a source...lol.

Dr. Gigglepants
12-13-2012, 07:15 PM
Wish I would have taken the blue pill dammit.
Posted via Mobile Device

-King-
12-13-2012, 07:20 PM
No.

Garcia Bronco
12-13-2012, 07:29 PM
crazy...but its hard to come over to your point of view. I just don't think this is something that is fixed. Sure than have been fixed games, but I doubt it's all that often

Chief_For_Life58
12-13-2012, 07:31 PM
wow ...good read

Chief_For_Life58
12-13-2012, 07:31 PM
interesting points

Bump
12-13-2012, 07:45 PM
told ya

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-13-2012, 07:47 PM
'97 Chiefs-Broncos agrees. One of the most ridiculously called games in league history.

Psyko Tek
12-13-2012, 07:48 PM
read too much not to have doubts
wanna remain ignorant


I WANT TO BELIEVE

don't take my sundays away from me

Brock
12-13-2012, 07:48 PM
Interesting read.

Cephalic Trauma
12-13-2012, 07:49 PM
told ya

Please don't act like you came anywhere close to that conclusion by yourself with evidence to back it up. You can go hit the bong and act like you can form an intelligent thought, but we both know that's simply not true.

theelusiveeightrop
12-13-2012, 07:50 PM
Seen better on a bathroom wall.

DTLB58
12-13-2012, 07:53 PM
What happens when the NFL/TV gods want team A to win over team B really, really badly, so they tell the refs the fix is in. Do whatever it takes, but team B just blows the doors off of team A 58-0 no matter how hard the refs try. Then what?

And what do expect everyone to do about this IF they want to be one of your followers? How is the casual football fan going to supposedly bring down the NFL,TV,Mafia and Vegas IF this is all true?

notorious
12-13-2012, 07:54 PM
Dallas would have more titles if the NFL wanted to maximize profits.

I do agree that there are a lot of "convienient" calls for the chosen teams.

DTLB58
12-13-2012, 08:02 PM
Look, I'm NOT saying some of this can't be true. I've been in front of a TV watching football EVERY Sunday for literally 40 seasons. And I've seen some crazy shit and a lot of it as of late, when we have the most technology at our hands to correct some of the crap that goes on.

Which leads to my point, IF this is true, there is nothing anybody is going to be able to do about it.

It's like my dad always said, money and sex makes the world go round. And in this case, it's the money. And hell, whose to say ol' Rog ain't getting a BJ or two on the side for something. :D

cdcox
12-13-2012, 08:03 PM
OK, so if you are ready to take the Red Pill, let's see how deep the rabbit hole goes...


Wow, I can almost fit my whole hand in there!

Garcia Bronco
12-13-2012, 08:04 PM
'97 Chiefs-Broncos agrees. One of the most ridiculously called games in league history.

I know. I can't believe they tried to keep you guys in the game.

DTLB58
12-13-2012, 08:04 PM
Dallas would have more titles if the NFL wanted to maximize profits.

I do agree that there are a lot of "convienient" calls for the chosen teams.

Yea, they waited to pull that ever "popular" Tuck rule out at a grand time didn't they. :D

mr. tegu
12-13-2012, 08:08 PM
This season when the public is 70% or more in one direction, the public has won 44 times and lost 38 times. Not exactly doing a good job of fixing are they.

notorious
12-13-2012, 08:27 PM
Yea, they waited to pull that ever "popular" Tuck rule out at a grand time didn't they. :D

No kidding.

They basically had to call it the same for a few seasons after that just to try and make it look legit.


If that happened to the Chiefs, I would have quit the NFL instantly. There was no way that call was legit.

DRU
12-13-2012, 08:30 PM
Damn, I tried to finish this but it is so horribly written I can't take the guy seriously. And he used bleacherreport.com for a source...lol.

Same here. The whole way through I'm just thinking, wow, this guy doesn't write very well at all. It wasn't an article about writing, though, so I was trying to give it a chance.

Then I come across this statement...

Afran is correct in his judgement based on the interpretation of game fixing laws. A team can't fix their own games for gambling purposes, nor can they fix an intellectual contest (a ruling based n the Quiz Show scandal of the 1950s) But judges ruled that fixing a game for entertainment purposes was completely LEGAL NFL Attorney Shephard Goldfein actually argued in court supporting this argument saying "fans would likely still buy tickets even if they knew teams were stealing signals" In other word, the NFL knows you will still pay to see football even if you knew it was fake because you love football.


He takes the statement, "fans would likely still buy tickets even if they knew teams were stealing signals" to mean that even though we know it's fake we'd still watch.

What does stealing signals have to do with being fake? If it were fake they wouldn't have to steal signals, for one, and the two don't have anything to do with each other in the first place. Stealing signals is something people do in all sports to try and get a competitive advantage over the other. He's saying that means it's fake..?? Doesn't make sense.

He keeps comparing it to the WWE, too. They don't have to steal signals from each other in the WWE because the entire thing is scripted...UNLIKE the NFL. You cant' script this game. The best of the best drop the ball too often to ever stick to a script.

Not going to waste my time reading this entire thing when it's not written well and doesn't make sense.

notorious
12-13-2012, 08:32 PM
Bet against the masses and win millions.

DTLB58
12-13-2012, 08:33 PM
Dallas would have more titles if the NFL wanted to maximize profits.

I do agree that there are a lot of "convienient" calls for the chosen teams.

And come to think of it, IF they had so much control......How the heck has an NFL team stayed out of LA for so long? Wouldn't that have helped their cause ever so much?

DTLB58
12-13-2012, 08:34 PM
Bet against the masses and win millions.

Only way to go.....If I were a betting man.

mr. tegu
12-13-2012, 08:36 PM
Bet against the masses and win millions.

See post 21.

DTLB58
12-13-2012, 08:37 PM
I didn't read enough to see, did he say what grade he got on his paper he wrote for this?

Frazod
12-13-2012, 08:38 PM
Damn, I tried to finish this but it is so horribly written I can't take the guy seriously. And he used bleacherreport.com for a source...lol.

Well, who do you think is going to write something like this? Peter King? Prisco? I'm sure they're all under orders to maintain the illusion.

One thing the guy doesn't mention and probably should is the advent of HDTV. I mean, seriously, unless you're retarded, the fixing is right there in glorious 1080p crystal clarity on your big ass TV, to be marveled at and watched over and over again by use of your DVR. And it's not like they really try that hard to hide it - I mean, how can they?

When it comes to HDTV, the NFL is sort of like porn. You see things you probably shouldn't, and somebody's getting fucked.

notorious
12-13-2012, 08:39 PM
See post 21.

Sarcasmic.

GloryDayz
12-13-2012, 08:45 PM
I'm soooo saving-up to buy an NFL team....

Bugeater
12-13-2012, 08:47 PM
Well, who do you think is going to write something like this? Peter King? Prisco? I'm sure they're all under orders to maintain the illusion.

One thing the guy doesn't mention and probably should is the advent of HDTV. I mean, seriously, unless you're retarded, the fixing is right there in glorious 1080p crystal clarity on your big ass TV, to be marveled at and watched over and over again by use of your DVR. And it's not like they really try that hard to hide it - I mean, how can they?

When it comes to HDTV, the NFL is sort of like porn. You see things you probably shouldn't, and somebody's getting fucked.
You don't have to have a journalism degree to bang out something readable. This guy can barely articulate a thought, I don't even understand some of the points he's trying to make. I'm not saying none of it's true, but if you're trying to drive a point home it's best not to come off as a drooling retard. "Poultry" statistics...my god. LMAO

keg in kc
12-13-2012, 08:48 PM
I think this was the site I was looking at when we talked about this a few years back: http://www.thefixisin.net/nfl.html

Demonpenz
12-13-2012, 08:49 PM
I thought it was common knowledge it is fake. Every time they open up one of those storage units there is always something wacky.

mr. tegu
12-13-2012, 08:50 PM
On the season the public has won 90 games and lost 89 games.

Frazod
12-13-2012, 08:52 PM
You don't have to have a journalism degree to bang out something readable. This guy can barely articulate a thought, I don't even understand some of the points he's trying to make. I'm not saying none of it's true, but if you're trying to drive a point home it's best not to come off as a drooling retard. "Poultry" statistics...my god. LMAO

I agree, he's crying out for a proofreader. Of course, I used to work for a very smart and successful lawyer who would probably spell "cat" K-A-T-T. And think of all the people who make beautifully worded arguments in favor of shit like gun control.

I'm willing to cut the messenger a little slack. The message is important.

keg in kc
12-13-2012, 08:52 PM
This one's fun too: http://superfraud.blogspot.com/

steelyeyed57
12-13-2012, 08:53 PM
Why do they need to video tape other teams' signals if the game is fixed?

unnecessary drama
12-13-2012, 08:57 PM
The only point I agree with is the ridiculous polamalu td they overturned which was a no doubt td and made no sense to overturn or review...total Vegas call....that said, no way games are fixed, maybe some are steered but the coaches and players would have nothing to do with it

Frazod
12-13-2012, 09:02 PM
Why do they need to video tape other teams' signals if the game is fixed?

I don't believe EVERY game is rigged. Also, there are times when despite the refs' best efforts, the anointed team chokes and the other guys pull it out anyway (see Packers v. Chiefs, 2011). Two of the most blatant non-calls I can remember seeing in a single game (obvious Packer offensive holds) resulted in a 9 point swing - one should have resulted in a safety, and the other play was a huge pass play on a GB scoring drive. I guess Orton and Company didn't get the memo. Or perhaps that day they just didn't give a shit. I have no idea how the WWNFL issues it's pre-game edicts, or to whom.

GloryDayz
12-13-2012, 09:11 PM
Might the Eagles-Bengals game of 2012 be added to the list? LOL!

cosmo20002
12-13-2012, 09:28 PM
This is on par with the stupid conspiracy theories posted in DC.

For a game to truly be fixed, there would need to be collusion among the league and probably the refs at the very least, but probably the coaches and players as well. Its ridiculous.

Just because someone can dream up a complicated series of events that could possibly happen doesn't mean it actually does.

tk13
12-13-2012, 09:41 PM
I don't know about being fixed... I'm sure someone somewhere in the NFL has taken money at some point.

I will say the NFL is great at sweeping things under the rug, so if it was happening they would probably hide it well. Like with the Bountygate issue, for instance... the Saints were close with a convicted felon who was offering rewards for injuring QBs. Sean Payton was directly corresponding with him about this. You think that would be a major deal, a businessman basically laying down money to alter games... but it really wasn't. Instead it's turned into a circus where Goodell looks like an idiot who punished a bunch of players unfairly.

CoMoChief
12-13-2012, 09:42 PM
I've been saying for a long time that eventually football will be played inside a studio with a TV crew..the whole 9 yds, and there will be no fans.

Why?

Well you're starting to see it now. NFL stands are getting more emptier and year after year. The economy is failing and the dollar is falling...and you don't think the NFL owners know this? That's why they're raising ticket prices year after year regardless if they're winning or not.

Whitlock touched on this. NFL owners almost don't care now if fans don't show...they're expendable now with the amount of money being made from the TV contracts. HDTV and technology is rapidly changing, and has for the last 10years.

Starting in 2014 the NFL will be making nearly $5B in TV contracts. That's not even including the Direct TV Sunday Ticket contract that expires in 2014. Currently it's valued at $1B/year. And I bet that amount will rise when they re-new the contract. I bet its $1.5B/yr.

So $6.5B / 32 NFL teams = approx $203M per team

So since I don't know what that contract for NFL Sunday Ticket will be, I'll be conservative and say it's safe to say that the NFL teams will split $200M each.

On average $75 a ticket and $30 parking that's $105 without food/beer etc. Now, not everyone drives their own car, so there are 19,200 parking spaces, and with parking in grass etc, you could easily fit 20,000 in there conservatively. I'll be nice and say $15/person for food/beer because not everyone buys food or drinks, but there are also A LOT of people that drink a lot and spend out the ass so I'm willing to guess it evens itself out a little bit.

Parking $600K/reg season game(8) (20,000 spaces x $30parking fee) = $4.8M season, so I'll say $5M.

$75 avg ticket price at Arrowhead x 80,000 = $6M/reg season game

$15food per person x 80,000 = $1.2M/reg season game...so $1M

That's $12 million/reg season game x 8 reg.season games = $96M a season....and that's being generous because not every seat is occupied by a person, tickets are bought from TV and advertising companies in some cases to keep the game from being blacked out...esp if your team sucks. So my figures are much high than they really are.

Forbes says the total profit for last year Chiefs was approx $50M.

So...$200M(TV contracts) > $50M(Fan costs)

Regardless of how far off this is, or how much of that $200M is actually delegated towards each team and not funneled to other entities within the league ....the gap is so wide the fans have become a non-factor when it comes to the big picture.



Fuck I realized I'm way too fucked up to be doing this and all my shit is wrong. I made everyone dumber by reading this. I'm awarded no points, and may God have mercy on my soul.
http://m2.mattters.com/youtube/5hfYJsQAhl0/large.jpg

htismaqe
12-13-2012, 09:44 PM
There's a bunch of contradictions in here.

Like when he says that the NFL doesn't need ticket sales but then goes on to say the 49ers had a "fixed" 13-3 season in order to get their new stadium, from ticket sales.

CoMoChief
12-13-2012, 09:44 PM
Do I think some games have been fixed? Of course. It's documented that it HAS happened before. Now how much does it happen? Probably a lot more back in the 60's-70's than now because of how connected we are with social media, TV, internet, etc. and everything is monitored.

CoMoChief
12-13-2012, 09:46 PM
There's a bunch of contradictions in here.

Like when he says that the NFL doesn't need ticket sales but then goes on to say the 49ers had a "fixed" 13-3 season in order to get their new stadium, from ticket sales.

True but these owners don't pay for the stadiums that are built....tax payers do.

Rugby Thompson
12-13-2012, 09:50 PM
I've been saying this forever, there's a huge conspiracy within the NFL. It's known that these games are fixed and rigged and that certain franchises are cursed like the chiefs. I could go on and on but its the entertainment business, I remember even hearing that some high up mafia guy in KC got caught with 400 grand in cash and he had Len Dawson's phone number. I know that was then but the last superbowls have been really rigged and a lot of these players have to take serious oaths, a lot of these owners and people working behind the scene are just so evil and corrupt.

htismaqe
12-13-2012, 09:55 PM
True but these owners don't pay for the stadiums that are built....tax payers do.

Which means that ticket sales are even MORE irrelevant when it comes to funding a stadium.

Some of his arguments just don't hold much water.

Rugby Thompson
12-13-2012, 09:57 PM
All the patriot superbowls were rigged.

jaa1025
12-13-2012, 09:57 PM
I fully expect this site to be shut down now by NFL security and nobody to ever hear from the OP again.

CoMoChief
12-13-2012, 09:58 PM
Which means that ticket sales are even MORE irrelevant when it comes to funding a stadium.

Some of his arguments just don't hold much water.

And isn't there a KCStar article where there is fine print where the Chiefs don't pay for stadium maintenance etc, the fees are hidden in county taxes or some shit.

htismaqe
12-13-2012, 10:06 PM
Here is another thought...

If anybody reading this truly believes the NFL is completely fake, ala the WWE, post here and explain how and why you are still a fan.

I see no reason to be interested at all if you think it's rigged because there's only 2 possible outcomes - your team will either never win because it isn't one of the "chosen" franchises or when they do win one it will be meaningless because they didn't earn it.

There's absolutely NOTHING to root for in that scenario.

SNR
12-13-2012, 10:08 PM
I'd like to meet the asshole who fixes these games. The Chiefs are getting fucked in this bullshit narrative they're pushing through.

niblet
12-13-2012, 10:10 PM
It simply isn't feasible to rig something as massive as the NFL. The lid would have been blown off a long, long time ago.

And you can't just take a few obvious bad calls and construe them in whatever way you choose to use as evidence that the NFL is fixed. It doesn't work that way.

Nzoner
12-13-2012, 10:29 PM
It simply isn't feasible to rig something as massive as the NFL. The lid would have been blown off a long, long time ago.

And you can't just take a few obvious bad calls and construe them in whatever way you choose to use as evidence that the NFL is fixed. It doesn't work that way.

The writer gives numerous sources for you to read more in depth on the subject.I don't think all the games are rigged but after reading the book Interference I was a whole lot more convinced it goes on.

Here's an interview with the author from '89

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/utO9jtDpsmQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Frazod
12-13-2012, 10:33 PM
Here is another thought...

If anybody reading this truly believes the NFL is completely fake, ala the WWE, post here and explain how and why you are still a fan.

I see no reason to be interested at all if you think it's rigged because there's only 2 possible outcomes - your team will either never win because it isn't one of the "chosen" franchises or when they do win one it will be meaningless because they didn't earn it.

There's absolutely NOTHING to root for in that scenario.

Well, I'm not much of one anymore.

All my Chiefs stuff is in a box in the basement. I attended one game this year, played locally between two teams I don't care about, exclusively because a Bears fan friend was coming in from out of town. And I got the tickets free. The tickets to the last game I saw were free, too. I haven't bought any official NFL merchandise in years, and now I'm not even buying the knockoff crap on eBay.

Following this team has been a major part of my life for decades - that won't dry up and blow away overnight. At this point, I don't watch a fraction of the games that I used to, and when I do, I'm generally not paying much attention to them.

At this point, I don't believe the Chiefs will ever win another Super Bowl UNLESS they manage to land somebody who turns into a bankable star that will sell merchandise outside our tiny fanbase. There's just no money in it for the league.

This is a multi-billion dollar industry. Name ONE multi-billion dollar industry that would put sportsmanship and fair play above profits.

ChiefsCountry
12-13-2012, 10:34 PM
Somebody would have squealed along time ago if it was a legit rigging going on. Especially during the time when NBC or CBS didn't have the games on their stations. Fist of all somebody would have gotten screwed out of money to blow the whistle.

Though we do know the mob is heavily involved in games, or they used to at least. The Pendergraf machine is why Fred Abranas is missing an eye. He dropped a touchdown that would have won a game and the mob took it out on him.

unnecessary drama
12-13-2012, 10:40 PM
It just doesn't make any sense...

Take last year's Super Bowl...they scripted the Welker drop (and he'll forever stay quite about it?) and that Manning to Manningham throw?

OK

Nzoner
12-13-2012, 10:45 PM
It just doesn't make any sense...

Take last year's Super Bowl...they scripted the Welker drop (and he'll forever stay quite about it?) and that Manning to Manningham throw?

OK

For the most part it's not about picking a winner and loser,and no way in hell do I believe an entire game is scripted.I do believe that shit goes on constantly though when it comes to spreads and over/unders.

niblet
12-13-2012, 10:46 PM
It just doesn't make any sense...

Take last year's Super Bowl...they scripted the Welker drop (and he'll forever stay quite about it?) and that Manning to Manningham throw?

OK

Goodell to Bowe (Lumbergh voice):

"Hey, yeah, Dwayne, Goodell here, we're gonna need you to go ahead and drop three passes this week. Mmm'kay? We'll buzz your helmet when it's really important for you to drop one, so yeah just go ahead and make sure you comply or we may have to put your on IR. M'kay, see ya later."

Frazod
12-13-2012, 10:47 PM
Obviously many people will never be convinced of this. My FIL and I got in a heated argument about this on Thanksgiving. In his mind, I'm just bitter and jaded because my team sucks and so I'm making excuses. The End. I don't think there's anything I could show him or any argument I could make to convince him otherwise, and the ironic thing is that he's a retired high level executive for a well known company and should damn well know how the game is played. Perhaps denial is just beat into such people - at least outside the boardroom.

I sent him a copy of this article. I doubt if he reads past the headline before he deletes it.

DTLB58
12-13-2012, 10:48 PM
All the patriot superbowls were rigged.

So the ones they won and lost? :D

unnecessary drama
12-13-2012, 10:49 PM
For the most part it's not about picking a winner and loser,and no way in hell do I believe an entire game is scripted.I do believe that shit goes on constantly though when it comes to spreads and over/unders.

That i don't necessarily disagree with

niblet
12-13-2012, 10:50 PM
For the most part it's not about picking a winner and loser,and no way in hell do I believe an entire game is scripted.I do believe that shit goes on constantly though when it comes to spreads and over/unders.

Yeah, this is more reasonable than the giant conspiracy tale other people seem to be convinced of.

ClevelandBronco
12-13-2012, 10:55 PM
...it is so horribly written I can't take the guy seriously...

This. And my objection isn't to his style of writing (which is awful). It's to the feast conclusions he draws from crumbs of evidence.

Nzoner
12-13-2012, 10:55 PM
Obviously many people will never be convinced of this. My FIL and I got in a heated argument about this on Thanksgiving. In his mind, I'm just bitter and jaded because my team sucks and so I'm making excuses. The End. I don't think there's anything I could show him or any argument I could make to convince him otherwise, and the ironic thing is that he's a retired high level executive for a well known company and should damn well know how the game is played. Perhaps denial is just beat into such people - at least outside the boardroom.

I sent him a copy of this article. I doubt if he reads past the headline before he deletes it.

it took a few years but I finally convinced a good friend of mine.I hate to think it goes on but there's just too much coincidence for it not to.

For instance the talk is already heating up about a Manning vs. Luck play-off possibility or how about this MAIN EVENT a Manning vs. Manning Super Bowl which would have never been possible if...

1.Lil bro doesn't demand a trade and get traded to an NFC team thus forcing Peyton's hand later to play for another AFC team when he clearly was wanted by Jim Harbaugh in San Francisco and which made a helluva lot more sense then.

Bugeater
12-13-2012, 10:58 PM
Ugh...the thought of a Manning vs Manning Super Bowl. :Lin:

Nzoner
12-13-2012, 11:01 PM
Ugh...the thought of a Manning vs Manning Super Bowl. :Lin:

I've already said it numerous times but if that happens it'll be the first time I miss the big game,no hosting a party,no nothing.That said the hype and the money involved on betting would be imo the biggest ever.

unnecessary drama
12-13-2012, 11:02 PM
sign me up

I'll take a Luck Vs. Manning, a Manning vs. Brady, and a Manning vs. Manning playoffs...that would be awesome

Von Dumbass
12-14-2012, 02:02 AM
Frazod truly believes the NFL is against the Chiefs. He thinks the refs always give calls to Denver and never give any calls to the Chiefs. Aren't you a Cubs fan too? Your teams just haven't been as fortunate as other teams, it's not fixed.

Guru
12-14-2012, 02:53 AM
So the NFL HATES the Hunts obviously.

okoye35chiefs
12-14-2012, 05:32 AM
"they" made brady go down on purpose to allow Cassel to look like a hero and then to punish the chiefs!

beach tribe
12-14-2012, 05:46 AM
What happens when the NFL/TV gods want team A to win over team B really, really badly, so they tell the refs the fix is in. Do whatever it takes, but team B just blows the doors off of team A 58-0 no matter how hard the refs try. Then what?

And what do expect everyone to do about this IF they want to be one of your followers? How is the casual football fan going to supposedly bring down the NFL,TV,Mafia and Vegas IF this is all true?

How exactly can you blow a teams doors off when your 3rd and 6 for a 70 yard gain, is now 3rd and 16 after holding?
It sucks the life out a team.
I don't think many games are fixed, but I think it happens.

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-14-2012, 06:48 AM
Phantom holds are awesome

Guru
12-14-2012, 06:48 AM
Phantom holds are awesome

as are choke holds that never get called.

GloryDayz
12-14-2012, 06:57 AM
All the patriot superbowls were rigged.

Duh!!!

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 06:57 AM
I don't think all the games are rigged but after reading the book Interference I was a whole lot more convinced it goes on.

For the most part it's not about picking a winner and loser,and no way in hell do I believe an entire game is scripted.I do believe that shit goes on constantly though when it comes to spreads and over/unders.

Yeah, I agree.

You'd have to be completely naive to think cheating doesn't happen. There are always going to be outcomes that are affected by outside forces, whether it's gambling, politics, or any number of things.

But to suggest the NFL is COMPLETELY faked, ala the WWE? No, I don't believe that.

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 06:59 AM
Well, I'm not much of one anymore.

All my Chiefs stuff is in a box in the basement. I attended one game this year, played locally between two teams I don't care about, exclusively because a Bears fan friend was coming in from out of town. And I got the tickets free. The tickets to the last game I saw were free, too. I haven't bought any official NFL merchandise in years, and now I'm not even buying the knockoff crap on eBay.

Following this team has been a major part of my life for decades - that won't dry up and blow away overnight. At this point, I don't watch a fraction of the games that I used to, and when I do, I'm generally not paying much attention to them.

At this point, I don't believe the Chiefs will ever win another Super Bowl UNLESS they manage to land somebody who turns into a bankable star that will sell merchandise outside our tiny fanbase. There's just no money in it for the league.

That's an honest answer to my question. I respect that.

This is a multi-billion dollar industry. Name ONE multi-billion dollar industry that would put sportsmanship and fair play above profits.

Valid point.

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 06:59 AM
Obviously many people will never be convinced of this. My FIL and I got in a heated argument about this on Thanksgiving. In his mind, I'm just bitter and jaded because my team sucks and so I'm making excuses. The End. I don't think there's anything I could show him or any argument I could make to convince him otherwise, and the ironic thing is that he's a retired high level executive for a well known company and should damn well know how the game is played. Perhaps denial is just beat into such people - at least outside the boardroom.

I sent him a copy of this article. I doubt if he reads past the headline before he deletes it.

There's some validity to this line of thinking. I know you don't want to hear it but there's a hint of truth to it.

GloryDayz
12-14-2012, 07:00 AM
So the NFL HATES the Hunts obviously.

So do I... So does God!

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 07:02 AM
This. And my objection isn't to his style of writing (which is awful). It's to the feast conclusions he draws from crumbs of evidence.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at too...

At some points, his case is compelling. And at other points, it really sounds like this:

http://cache2.allpostersimages.com/p/LRG/28/2899/6JXPD00Z/posters/sandwich-board-man-warns-us-of-impending-doom.jpg

GloryDayz
12-14-2012, 07:02 AM
Ugh...the thought of a Manning vs Manning Super Bowl. :Lin:

I would mow the lawn.... Even is there's a foot of snow!

WhiteWhale
12-14-2012, 07:05 AM
Some truth, and some speculation and conjecture.

I do think there is an element to fixing games (the steelers/chargers mentioned was totally fixed imo) but I really do not think players don't care about winning and just do whatever they're told. I think most of that happens between owners, refs, and the NFL. Players are pawns.

I don't think it always works out the way the NFL wants either, but there's manipulation going on there to influence the results.

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 07:06 AM
Ugh...the thought of a Manning vs Manning Super Bowl. :Lin:

They've had plenty of chances and not produced one yet. I wouldn't worry about it.

mr. tegu
12-14-2012, 07:09 AM
Some truth, and some speculation and conjecture.

I do think there is an element to fixing games (the steelers/chargers mentioned was totally fixed imo) but I really do not think players don't care about winning and just do whatever they're told. I think most of that happens between owners, refs, and the NFL. Players are pawns.

I don't think it always works out the way the NFL wants either, but there's manipulation going on there to influence the results.

Yeah the players not wanting to win is idiotic. He sites that they get paid either way, which simply isn't true. If players don't do their best and try to win they are out of a job.

Amnorix
12-14-2012, 07:21 AM
Some of it is interesting, and some of it just silly. If everything in the NFL is fixed, and Tebow so massively profitable, then why was Tebow shipped off to New York to do absolutely NOTHING?

Some of the stuff I have to accept on face value, or not. Others are true, and many others make no sense or don't add up. It would take hours to really analyze it all point by point.

Bottom line -- doubt it. Very much doubt it.

notorious
12-14-2012, 07:25 AM
The holding penalty is the perfect vessel to control a game.

CoMoChief
12-14-2012, 07:37 AM
sign me up

I'll take a Luck Vs. Manning, a Manning vs. Brady, and a Manning vs. Manning playoffs...that would be awesome

You must love ESPN

Amnorix
12-14-2012, 07:37 AM
For instance the talk is already heating up about a Manning vs. Luck play-off possibility or how about this MAIN EVENT a Manning vs. Manning Super Bowl which would have never been possible if...

1.Lil bro doesn't demand a trade and get traded to an NFC team thus forcing Peyton's hand later to play for another AFC team when he clearly was wanted by Jim Harbaugh in San Francisco and which made a helluva lot more sense then.


So.....the NFL waited 8 years and several neck surgeries to get Manning vs. Manning in the main event? That makes ANY sense to you?

How does Eli forcing a trade to NYG "thus force Peyton's hand later to play for another AFC team"? To set up the pre-ordained Super Bowl you're talking about? The one that COULD HAVE (but didn't) happen when he had excellent teams in Indy?

And if Manning vs. Manning DOESN'T happen, does that prove that your pulling this completely out of your ass, or do you just forget about it and move on to the next conspiracy theory?

Inquiring minds want to know.

durtyrute
12-14-2012, 07:43 AM
Damn, I was coming in here to call Manning V Manning in the big dance, but someone beat me to it.

notorious
12-14-2012, 07:48 AM
Bottom line -- doubt it. Very much doubt it.

Start at 1:10.

Listen to the explaination at 4:05.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pDQAmuZ8t94" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 07:51 AM
So.....the NFL waited 8 years and several neck surgeries to get Manning vs. Manning in the main event? That makes ANY sense to you?

How does Eli forcing a trade to NYG "thus force Peyton's hand later to play for another AFC team"? To set up the pre-ordained Super Bowl you're talking about? The one that COULD HAVE (but didn't) happen when he had excellent teams in Indy?

And if Manning vs. Manning DOESN'T happen, does that prove that your pulling this completely out of your ass, or do you just forget about it and move on to the next conspiracy theory?

Inquiring minds want to know.

EXACTLY.

Dayze
12-14-2012, 07:57 AM
The holding penalty is the perfect vessel to control a game.

^
that, and defensive PI to help an offense.
I absolutely HATE that defensive PI is a spot foul. that right there can alter a game. Shit, I think teams who are desperate to move the ball, toss up a huge pass and hope for PI more than they hope for the catch.

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 08:00 AM
Shit, I think teams who are desperate to move the ball, toss up a huge pass and hope for PI more than they hope for the catch.

That's not a conspiracy though, that's just good football strategy.

notorious
12-14-2012, 08:01 AM
^
that, and defensive PI to help an offense.
I absolutely HATE that defensive PI is a spot foul. that right there can alter a game. Shit, I think teams who are desperate to move the ball, toss up a huge pass and hope for PI more than they hope for the catch.

I don't think they use that to alter games, it's just that they suck at making the call. It is way to exposed for everyone to see.


The announcers say it all the time,"Holding can be called on every play." Think about it.

Frazod
12-14-2012, 08:01 AM
Frazod truly believes the NFL is against the Chiefs. He thinks the refs always give calls to Denver and never give any calls to the Chiefs. Aren't you a Cubs fan too? Your teams just haven't been as fortunate as other teams, it's not fixed.

I'm a Cardinals fan, you window-licking goat fucker.

notorious
12-14-2012, 08:02 AM
It's funny how our resident Denver and NE fans are backing the NFL. Their teams directly won from two horrendous calls in playoff games that led to Superbowl championships.

Frazod
12-14-2012, 08:07 AM
There's some validity to this line of thinking. I know you don't want to hear it but there's a hint of truth to it.

It's more the harsh realization of the way things are that's made me this way. Oh well. At least I still have baseball. It may not be perfect, but small market teams still have a shot occasionally.

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 08:07 AM
It's funny how our resident Denver and NE fans are backing the NFL. Their teams directly won from two horrendous calls in playoff games that led to Superbowl championships.

See, this just sounds like bitterness.

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 08:08 AM
It's more the harsh realization of the way things are that's made me this way. Oh well. At least I still have baseball. It may not be perfect, but small market teams still have a shot occasionally.

Fair enough.

Just make sure you don't change your mind when Geno Smith is holding up a Chiefs #1 jersey this April... :D

Frazod
12-14-2012, 08:10 AM
Fair enough.

Just make sure you don't change your mind when Geno Smith is holding up a Chiefs #1 jersey this April... :D

Yeah, I can't wait until the next 13-3 bye one-and-done playoff effort.

WhiteWhale
12-14-2012, 08:13 AM
Yeah the players not wanting to win is idiotic. He sites that they get paid either way, which simply isn't true. If players don't do their best and try to win they are out of a job.

Yup.

These guys take HUGE risks, and they have an enormous passion for the game. I don't buy that at all.

WhiteWhale
12-14-2012, 08:14 AM
The holding penalty is the perfect vessel to control a game.

So is the downfield contact rule.

3rd and 17... Manning drops back... pass incomplete.

OH BUT WAIT! There's a flag.

Illegal contact, on a defensive back who barely touched someone, 5 yard penalty and free first down.

Some teams get a LOT of these bail out calls.

Von Dumbass
12-14-2012, 08:17 AM
Yup.

These guys take HUGE risks, and they have an enormous passion for the game. I don't buy that at all.

That and a lot of guys have incentives built into their contracts for winning playoff games/Super Bowls.

durtyrute
12-14-2012, 08:18 AM
This completely fucks up football for me.

The tuck rule, the Saints winning after Katrina, the sack that wasn't called that resulted in a fumble and a touchdown by the Chiefs, but it was called back and the Steelers win in overtime. The fieldgoals that aRE chip ins for good kickers, but somehow they shank it wide left or right. THE EIGHT DOLLAR BEERS...............FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU*******KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

This makes Durt sad.

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 08:24 AM
Yeah, I can't wait until the next 13-3 bye one-and-done playoff effort.

Wow man, that sucks.

Frazod
12-14-2012, 08:27 AM
This completely fucks up football for me.

The tuck rule, the Saints winning after Katrina, the sack that wasn't called that resulted in a fumble and a touchdown by the Chiefs, but it was called back and the Steelers win in overtime. The fieldgoals that aRE chip ins for good kickers, but somehow they shank it wide left or right. THE EIGHT DOLLAR BEERS...............FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU*******KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

This makes Durt sad.

Maybe if Kansas City gets wiped out by an F-5 they'll toss us one. :thumb:

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 08:27 AM
This completely ****s up football for me.

The tuck rule, the Saints winning after Katrina, the sack that wasn't called that resulted in a fumble and a touchdown by the Chiefs, but it was called back and the Steelers win in overtime. The fieldgoals that aRE chip ins for good kickers, but somehow they shank it wide left or right. THE EIGHT DOLLAR BEERS...............FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU*******KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

This makes Durt sad.

That was the right call. Get over it.

durtyrute
12-14-2012, 08:28 AM
Maybe if Kansas City gets wiped out by an F-5 they'll toss us one. :thumb:

;)

durtyrute
12-14-2012, 08:28 AM
That was the right call. Get over it.

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. There was no way the play should have ended that fast. Bullshit.

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 08:36 AM
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. There was no way the play should have ended that fast. Bullshit.

How fast? He was in the grasp and forward progress had stopped. They waited nearly 3 seconds to blow the whistle.

That rule has been in place for nearly 60 years. Get over it.

durtyrute
12-14-2012, 08:42 AM
How fast? He was in the grasp and forward progress had stopped. They waited nearly 3 seconds to blow the whistle.

That rule has been in place for nearly 60 years. Get over it.

NEVER........fucking NEVER

Really I don't give two shits, even though magically we did get fucked over by the refs in that game.

MahiMike
12-14-2012, 08:46 AM
See! Just like Storage Wars. Fixed entertainment!

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 08:51 AM
NEVER........****ing NEVER

Really I don't give two shits, even though magically we did get ****ed over by the refs in that game.

No, we really didn't.

Amnorix
12-14-2012, 08:57 AM
Start at 1:10.

Listen to the explaination at 4:05.



Like I haven't seen it before?

Is the Tuck Rule a whacky, weird rule that doesn't come up often? Yes. IS IT A REAL RULE? Yes. Are many butthurt over it many years later? Yes. Is it karmic redemption for the phantom roughing the passer call when the Patriots played the Raiders in the 70s? I'd like to think so.

Amnorix
12-14-2012, 08:59 AM
It's funny how our resident Denver and NE fans are backing the NFL. Their teams directly won from two horrendous calls in playoff games that led to Superbowl championships.


What's horrendous about the call?

Here's the rule:

The NFL rule book states: NFL Rule 3, Section 22, Article 2, Note 2. When [an offensive] player is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional forward movement of his arm starts a forward pass, even if the player loses possession of the ball as he is attempting to tuck it back toward his body. Also, if the player has tucked the ball into his body and then loses possession, it is a fumble.


You might not like the call, but the rule is the rule. Is it a crap rule? Maybe, but that's a different argument.

Nzoner
12-14-2012, 09:00 AM
So.....the NFL waited 8 years and several neck surgeries to get Manning vs. Manning in the main event? That makes ANY sense to you?

How does Eli forcing a trade to NYG "thus force Peyton's hand later to play for another AFC team"? To set up the pre-ordained Super Bowl you're talking about? The one that COULD HAVE (but didn't) happen when he had excellent teams in Indy?

And if Manning vs. Manning DOESN'T happen, does that prove that your pulling this completely out of your ass, or do you just forget about it and move on to the next conspiracy theory?

Inquiring minds want to know.

First off I realize it's a conspiracy theory and if it doesn't happen I'll still own up to my comments because I believe shit does go on to give the fans a match for the ages if you will.Now to answer your question what's 8 years the boys have won 3 SB's in that time and Archie would now like nothing more than to see his boys face off in the big game and yes I believe the NFL would love it too,by forcing his hand I think Peyton chose a possible route to see a SB for the ages vs. being a clear cut favorite and signing with the 49er's.

Theory yes but you have to agree a Manning vs. Manning SB would be one of if not the largest cash cow the NFL might ever see and oh the marketing possibilities,brother vs. brother,2 SB wins vs. 1 SB win,the game to settle who is the best etc.

HemiEd
12-14-2012, 09:02 AM
The holding penalty is the perfect vessel to control a game.

Yep, and you saw glaring evidence of it as soon as the real refs came back.

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 09:03 AM
a Manning vs. Manning SB would be one of if not the largest cash cow the NFL might ever see

And would have been last year, or the year before, or the year before that...

Nzoner
12-14-2012, 09:15 AM
And would have been last year, or the year before, or the year before that...

Not last year because Peyton was out :)

The storyline now is so much greater though that Eli has 2 wins and Peytons comeback.

If you have time watch the following,if nothing else at least listen around the 8:30 mark.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/eUw9FGCAEIY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 09:20 AM
Not last year because Peyton was out :)

Why was Peyton out? Goodell told him to suffer a neck injury, right? :p

Nzoner
12-14-2012, 09:25 AM
Like I haven't seen it before?

Is the Tuck Rule a whacky, weird rule that doesn't come up often? Yes. IS IT A REAL RULE? Yes. Are many butthurt over it many years later? Yes. Is it karmic redemption for the phantom roughing the passer call when the Patriots played the Raiders in the 70s? I'd like to think so.

As much as I hate the Raiders and was elated with that call,I'd now be naive if I didn't believe there was a greater story to be told from that postseason.

Isn't it amazing that the very year the U.S. suffers the worst terrorist attack ever on its soil that a team called The Patriots goes on to play in and win the Super Bowl and when being introduced prior to the game decides to take the field as one as in United We Stand,Divided We Fall.

Just my .02

Frazod
12-14-2012, 09:26 AM
Yep, and you saw glaring evidence of it as soon as the real refs came back.

Replacement refs:

http://dg.kscs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/barney-fife.jpg

Real refs:

http://idiotflashback.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/1834_2.jpg

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 09:30 AM
As much as I hate the Raiders and was elated with that call,I'd now be naive if I didn't believe there was a greater story to be told from that postseason.

Isn't it amazing that the very year the U.S. suffers the worst terrorist attack ever on its soil that a team called The Patriots goes on to play in and win the Super Bowl and when being introduced prior to the game decides to take the field as one as in United We Stand,Divided We Fall.

Just my .02

Wouldn't it have been more fitting if a team from NEW YORK, you know the city that was attacked, had been in the Super Bowl that year?

Look, the idea that they could rig games, or even a Super Bowl berth, is pretty believable.

The idea that they would do it based on a team's NAME is laughingly preposterous.

Nzoner
12-14-2012, 09:36 AM
Wouldn't it have been more fitting if a team from NEW YORK, you know the city that was attacked, had been in the Super Bowl that year?

Look, the idea that they could rig games, or even a Super Bowl berth, is pretty believable.

The idea that they would do it based on a team's NAME is laughingly preposterous.

Why not the Washington Redskins then?

The country was in need of reassurance and what greater stage than the most watched sporting event of all to remind everyone of patriotism and staying united and sending a message to the rest of the world that,oh yeah was watching as well?

HemiEd
12-14-2012, 09:36 AM
Replacement refs:

http://dg.kscs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/barney-fife.jpg

Real refs:

http://idiotflashback.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/1834_2.jpg

I see what you did there, very nice.

notorious
12-14-2012, 09:42 AM
What's horrendous about the call?

Here's the rule:




You might not like the call, but the rule is the rule. Is it a crap rule? Maybe, but that's a different argument.

Just stop.


It was NEVER called like that until that particular play. For the next 3-4 years refs adjusted to justify that call.

I want you to show me ONE time a QB pump faked and fumbled but it was ruled a imcomplete pass before the Tuck Rule fiasco.

I won't hold my breath, because it doesn't fucking exist.

Discuss Thrower
12-14-2012, 09:45 AM
Someone brought up the Chiefs - Steelers game.. Anyone else remember the ridiculous OPI call on Moeaki that negated a 15+ yard completion?

notorious
12-14-2012, 09:46 AM
For years after the tuck rule, announcers and commentators stated that the QB should just pump fake right after every snap because everything after that will be considered in the process of passing.

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 09:50 AM
Why not the Washington Redskins then?

The country was in need of reassurance and what greater stage than the most watched sporting event of all to remind everyone of patriotism and staying united and sending a message to the rest of the world that,oh yeah was watching as well?

So you're suggesting that they accomplished that by making sure that a team with the Patriots MASCOT got into the Super Bowl?

ROFL ROFL ROFL

Ace Gunner
12-14-2012, 09:50 AM
Good article. thx for posting

Nzoner
12-14-2012, 09:53 AM
So you're suggesting that they accomplished that by making sure that a team with the Patriots MASCOT got into the Super Bowl?

ROFL ROFL ROFL

Do you remember the Patriots intro of that Super Bowl?

Just amazing that the year the tuck rule is called that the end result is that.

unnecessary drama
12-14-2012, 09:56 AM
The idea that games are scripted is ludicrous...there may be a handful of dirty refs

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 09:58 AM
Do you remember the Patriots intro of that Super Bowl?

Just amazing that the year the tuck rule is called that the end result is that.

And it STILL would have been more fitting, more nostaligic, and more patriotic if it had been the Jets, Giants, or Redskins.

Sorry but the idea the Patriots got in because they have a Minuteman on their helmet is just laughable.

durtyrute
12-14-2012, 10:08 AM
Someone brought up the Chiefs - Steelers game.. Anyone else remember the ridiculous OPI call on Moeaki that negated a 15+ yard completion?

Fucked, I say

KILLER_CLOWN
12-14-2012, 10:19 AM
What happens when the NFL/TV gods want team A to win over team B really, really badly, so they tell the refs the fix is in. Do whatever it takes, but team B just blows the doors off of team A 58-0 no matter how hard the refs try. Then what?

And what do expect everyone to do about this IF they want to be one of your followers? How is the casual football fan going to supposedly bring down the NFL,TV,Mafia and Vegas IF this is all true?

Holding calls, replay downs until you get the correct outcome.

mr. tegu
12-14-2012, 10:25 AM
As much as I hate the Raiders and was elated with that call,I'd now be naive if I didn't believe there was a greater story to be told from that postseason.

Isn't it amazing that the very year the U.S. suffers the worst terrorist attack ever on its soil that a team called The Patriots goes on to play in and win the Super Bowl and when being introduced prior to the game decides to take the field as one as in United We Stand,Divided We Fall.

Just my .02

That is a silly connection. There are two New York teams that would make much more sense if they were fixing it.

Edit - I see now that this discussion has already happened.

bevischief
12-14-2012, 10:27 AM
The idea that games are scripted is ludicrous...there may be a handful of dirty refs

That's all that is needed.

durtyrute
12-14-2012, 10:31 AM
The tuck rule game says it all. If it can happen once it can happen again. Shit, the fact that the Saints won after Katrina should have been another tip. What about the Green Bay/Seattle game this year. It goes on and on.

Manning V Manning, that's all I saying

kcfanXIII
12-14-2012, 10:39 AM
The only point I agree with is the ridiculous polamalu td they overturned which was a no doubt td and made no sense to overturn or review...total Vegas call....that said, no way games are fixed, maybe some are steered but the coaches and players would have nothing to do with it

that's why its a pass happy league, because they know two qb fantasy football leagues are where its at.

notorious
12-14-2012, 10:40 AM
The idea that games are scripted is ludicrous...there may be a handful of dirty refs

Yes, the guy is insane if he thinks they players would be trusted and that everyone plays to a script.

If game fixing is true, all that it would take is one ref in some important games only making a single holding call.

I would suspect that it wouldn't be Bronculi or any of the other attention whores, it would be a non-descript, "nobody cares who he is" guy.

I believe that 99% of the NFL is legit, but some very important calls over the years have been butchered beyond believe.

Amnorix
12-14-2012, 10:57 AM
Just stop.


It was NEVER called like that until that particular play. For the next 3-4 years refs adjusted to justify that call.

I want you to show me ONE time a QB pump faked and fumbled but it was ruled a imcomplete pass before the Tuck Rule fiasco.

I won't hold my breath, because it doesn't fucking exist.


Was the rule on the books when they called it? Yep, sure was.

So the rest is just butthurt.

Amnorix
12-14-2012, 10:58 AM
And it STILL would have been more fitting, more nostaligic, and more patriotic if it had been the Jets, Giants, or Redskins.

Sorry but the idea the Patriots got in because they have a Minuteman on their helmet is just laughable.

Didn't have one then. It was already the Flying Elvis, a symbol of national unity for all Americans!

notorious
12-14-2012, 11:36 AM
Was the rule on the books when they called it? Yep, sure was.

So the rest is just butthurt.

:facepalm:



Just like if the NBA decided to call traveling correctly against Patrick Ewing on the last shot of a playoff game 7.


Never called it before! But it's in the rules!

notorious
12-14-2012, 11:42 AM
Was the rule on the books when they called it? Yep, sure was.

So the rest is just butthurt.

I am butthurt that my most despised rival got knocked out of the playoffs by a team of nobodies (at the time)?

Get a clue. ROFL

Rugby Thompson
12-14-2012, 11:47 AM
Whoever disagrees and thinks it isn't rigged needs to do some more research. Of course it's not going to stop me from watching the games, it's entertainment but at the same time you really have to take in that the NFL is all about gambling and dirty refs and dirty owners. Players get paid to drop balls in big games and fuck up, sooner or later, we're gonna have a situation on our hands in the NFL where someone is going to speak out about this. The NFL claims it's never rigged a game but it's just too obvious to me nowadays, since this chiefs season was so horrible. I would mostly watch other games and try and see how rigged it was, doesn't anyone else get how fucked up it was when we had those replacement officials, that was all for a fucking story.

MahiMike
12-14-2012, 11:48 AM
The reason the Patriots got in is the same as the Steelers. Their owners are crooks.

Rugby Thompson
12-14-2012, 11:49 AM
A manning vs manning superbowl would not be the biggest cash cow, Eli is boring. Now if it was Brady and Rodgers, that'd be a different story.

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 11:50 AM
sooner or later, we're gonna have a situation on our hands in the NFL where someone is going to speak out about this.

ROFL

It's supposedly been going on since the 1950's yet suddenly NOW we're going to have a situation on our hands?

There's 2 possibilities here:

1) They've kept it quiet for 60 years and it will continue to remain quiet or

2) It doesn't happen with the frequency some people would like to believe.

Rugby Thompson
12-14-2012, 11:50 AM
The reason the Patriots got in is the same as the Steelers. Their owners are crooks.

Arizona should have beat the steelers in that bowl, it was so rigged. Then they were in the SB with green bay, and of course Green bay is going to win because Roethlisberger raped some girl in the off season. Could you really see Goodell handing him the Lombardi after all that fiasco?

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 11:52 AM
Arizona should have beat the steelers in that bowl, it was so rigged. Then they were in the SB with green bay, and of course Green bay is going to win because Roethlisberger raped some girl in the off season. Could you really see Goodell handing him the Lombardi after all that fiasco?

If Roethlisbergers legal issues factored into the situation AT ALL, why allow them to make it to Super Bowl in the first place?

Some of this stuff is hilariously silly.

Rugby Thompson
12-14-2012, 11:55 AM
ROFL

It's supposedly been going on since the 1950's yet suddenly NOW we're going to have a situation on our hands?

There's 2 possibilities here:

1) They've kept it quiet for 60 years and it will continue to remain quiet or

2) It doesn't happen with the frequency some people would like to believe.


I just meant like the bounty system and spy gate, something serious like that. I understand people have kept quiet, probably cause of the mafia or some other higher ups in the NFL but I meant like in the NBA when that ref got caught gambling, just something similar to that. Not someone coming out and saying oh this was scripted.

Rugby Thompson
12-14-2012, 11:57 AM
If Roethlisbergers legal issues factored into the situation AT ALL, why allow them to make it to Super Bowl in the first place?

Some of this stuff is hilariously silly.

Because if the jets made the SB that year, they prob would have won it. They were getting hot at the right time and plus GB and PITT have some of the biggest fan bases which = more $$$ and ratings for the NFL.

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 12:01 PM
Because if the jets made the SB that year, they prob would have won it. They were getting hot at the right time and plus GB and PITT have some of the biggest fan bases which = more $$$ and ratings for the NFL.

But wait...they're FIXING THE GAMES. They had SIXTEEN AFC teams to choose from.

Sorry but the "logic" just doesn't hold up.

htismaqe
12-14-2012, 12:03 PM
I just meant like the bounty system and spy gate, something serious like that. I understand people have kept quiet, probably cause of the mafia or some other higher ups in the NFL but I meant like in the NBA when that ref got caught gambling, just something similar to that. Not someone coming out and saying oh this was scripted.

If that's the case, why would you say "we're GONNA have a situation on our hands"?

Bountygate and Spygate are already public knowledge. Guys have already been suspended for gambling and potentially throwing games.

If all you're talking about is one offs, then there is no POTENTIAL situation because all of those one-offs have already happened and people came forward. The only potential situation you could have been alluding to is a full-blown taking the lid off the NFL conspiracy that it's fake...

dj56dt58
12-14-2012, 12:28 PM
If this was true then why bing in instant replay?

durtyrute
12-14-2012, 12:37 PM
SHORTEN THE OP

Bugeater
12-14-2012, 04:26 PM
The tuck rule game says it all. If it can happen once it can happen again. Shit, the fact that the Saints won after Katrina should have been another tip. What about the Green Bay/Seattle game this year. It goes on and on.

Manning V Manning, that's all I saying
Um, this was also touched on in the OP, everyone knows that Katrina didn't happen in 2009, right?

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-14-2012, 04:41 PM
The holding penalty is the perfect vessel to control a game.

THIS

lostcause
12-14-2012, 05:26 PM
THIS
Holding penalties and spot foul for Pass interference.

lostcause
12-14-2012, 05:31 PM
As someone who has been in and out of football betting over the last 15 years, I've seen a lot of instances that were very odd. However, one this season was just plain ridiculous. A couple weeks back when the Giants routed the Packers 38-10 and at the end of the game the Giants went for a td on 3rd and 4th down with back to back fades to the corner of the end zone instead of kicking a field goal. I was barely watching the game, but that caught my attention - I mentioned to my wife (who could have cared less) that the over/under on the game had to be 50. Out of curiosity, I looked it up and there it was 50.5....

13and3
12-14-2012, 07:03 PM
Wasn't it sort of odd when we had the replacement refs, that some of the NFL marquee teams were losing, like green bay, while others like Arizona were winning? I mean I don't believe there was anyway the Chiefs win that game in New Orleans if we had regular refs. Plainly spoken I think the reg refs are used to calling games in favor of certain teams regardless of the play on field i.e. the missing holding penalties that never get called on Tamba.

notorious
12-14-2012, 07:08 PM
Wasn't it sort of odd when we had the replacement refs, that some of the NFL marquee teams were losing, like green bay, while others like Arizona were winning? I mean I don't believe there was anyway the Chiefs win that game in New Orleans if we had regular refs. Plainly spoken I think the reg refs are used to calling games in favor of certain teams regardless of the play on field i.e. the missing holding penalties that never get called on Tamba.

I agree. The NFL is similar to the NBA in which the "Stars" get a lot of beneficial calls/no calls.

GoChargers
12-15-2012, 01:36 AM
As a Charger fan, I've sat through more than enough bullshit games that I feel these theories have legs.

I mean, the Chargers/Saints game this year was one of the most obvious rigjobs I've ever seen in my life. We were never going to be allowed to win that game, not with Drew's precious little record at stake, not with Unitas' kid in the crowd and Payton magically being allowed back on the premises. BS call after BS call in the second half ensured the Saints' first win of the year, a "magical" comeback with Brees getting his record. How convenient.

And it's not just that... the Hochuli game was rigged, and the Immaculate Deception was rigged.

GoChargers
12-15-2012, 01:43 AM
Wasn't it sort of odd when we had the replacement refs, that some of the NFL marquee teams were losing, like green bay, while others like Arizona were winning?
I noticed that too. It's funny how no progress was made on the ref lockout until Goodell's two favorite teams, the Packers and Patriots, lost on controversial calls that were actually correct if you go by the NFL's convoluted rulebook. Despite that fact, the media threw a temper tantrum over it, and the corrupt regular refs who everyone hated before were now ushered back in as heroes. Oh, and the Packers and Pats "coincidentally" had a magical turnaround back to their winning ways once the regular refs came back.

I don't think the replacement refs were inept at all. I think the fans of big-market legacy teams just weren't used to games actually being called by the rulebook and impartially instead of favoring their teams.

Rugby Thompson
12-15-2012, 02:00 AM
As a Charger fan, I've sat through more than enough bullshit games that I feel these theories have legs.

I mean, the Chargers/Saints game this year was one of the most obvious rigjobs I've ever seen in my life. We were never going to be allowed to win that game, not with Drew's precious little record at stake, not with Unitas' kid in the crowd and Payton magically being allowed back on the premises. BS call after BS call in the second half ensured the Saints' first win of the year, a "magical" comeback with Brees getting his record. How convenient.

And it's not just that... the Hochuli game was rigged, and the Immaculate Deception was rigged.

Don't you find it odd too that Unitas went to the Chargers and then Brees is breaking his record against them AND it's his former team. Look at all the Patriot superbowls too, they were so rigged, in each 3 of them, you can easily make the case that each of their first 3 opponents should of beat them, Rams were the better team that year, Panthers were stacked and that Eagles team was loaded and they lose by 3 each time. Then the next 2 super bowls they were in, it's almost like Belichick bowed down to his former team, the almighty football Giants.

Chargers are cursed forever, it's like they'll never win a bowl. That 4th & 29 play pretty much showed me. Even in that 07-08 championship game, even though NE was the better team and even without Tomlinson, I think Chargers should have won, Rivers played tough as hell but of course it wouldn't of been a good story. The 14-2 year too, you were the best team, Pats fucked with you yet again.

KC is the most cursed franchise though in the NFL. Hunt sold the soul and we are cursed forever, all the games in the playoffs have been rigged especially the one against Manning at Arrowhead. We should have beat GB in Superbowl 1 but Dawson got paid by the Mob to fuck up. Arrowhead's an indian burial ground, Clark's an evil guy, same with Pioli and when that Belcher shit went down and the game being played right away and us winning, I knew there was something more to it. This franchise has fucked with too many coaches too like the Marty and the Vermeil, Vermeil hasn't coached since, the KC fucked with him too hard. We're an evil franchise, the fans aren't but the people that work behind closed doors with this organization are. Something serious happened back in the day, some blood shed, some sacrifice, Hunt sold the soul to win that 2nd superbowl and ever since 69, we've been cursed.

GoChargers
12-15-2012, 02:11 AM
The 4th and 29 play wasn't rigged, it was just the usual complete failure of execution typical of a Norv Turner-coached team.

The 14-2 year wasn't rigged either, we had that game in the bag if Marlon McCree didn't decide to be a colossal idiot.

I don't think every NFL game is rigged... but I do think that if there's an opportunity for a dramatic headline-grabbing moment or storyline (i.e. Bettis winning it all in his hometown before he retires, the Saints' post-Katrina turnaround, Brees' record, the PATRIOTS winning it all after 9/11, etc.) the refs and league will force it to happen by any means necessary.

And I also think certain franchises get favorable officiating based on market, history, or importance to the league, although that doesn't always guarantee wins. That happens in all sports, IMO.

beach tribe
12-15-2012, 08:56 AM
This is on par with the stupid conspiracy theories posted in DC.

For a game to truly be fixed, there would need to be collusion among the league and probably the refs at the very least, but probably the coaches and players as well. Its ridiculous.

Just because someone can dream up a complicated series of events that could possibly happen doesn't mean it actually does.

Actually, you need one ref playing along. That's it.

beach tribe
12-15-2012, 09:04 AM
maybe some are steered but the coaches and players would have nothing to do with it
This. They don't have to be.
Look a the type of power the refs have. They can change any game, at any time, on any play.

unnecessary drama
12-15-2012, 09:05 AM
so the NFL scripted the Bettis fumble, the Colts guy picked it up, and instead of him running to the outside where he'd score easy he cut back so Roethlisberger could tackle him and then Vanderjagt was scripted to miss that field goal by 90 yards?

MAN, THE NFL IS GOOD!

Frazod
12-15-2012, 09:11 AM
Wasn't it sort of odd when we had the replacement refs, that some of the NFL marquee teams were losing, like green bay, while others like Arizona were winning? I mean I don't believe there was anyway the Chiefs win that game in New Orleans if we had regular refs. Plainly spoken I think the reg refs are used to calling games in favor of certain teams regardless of the play on field i.e. the missing holding penalties that never get called on Tamba.

The NFL obviously didn't bother letting the replacements in on their dirty little secret.

Did they do a crappy job? Yep. But they did it fairly. We can't have that.

CoMoChief
12-15-2012, 09:17 AM
I think there is too much going on too fast, too many players on the field for a game to be rigged. The only way I can really see that happening is if a ref is being paid off or something, but even then that ref has to think on his feet pretty damn fast and know when exactly the right time would be to screw up calls, throw the game etc.

Frazod
12-15-2012, 09:36 AM
I think there is too much going on too fast, too many players on the field for a game to be rigged. The only way I can really see that happening is if a ref is being paid off or something, but even then that ref has to think on his feet pretty damn fast and know when exactly the right time would be to screw up calls, throw the game etc.

It's been said many times that games are too fluid to be successfully rigged all the time. They can't control things like injuries to key players, or the weather. Shit happens. Sometimes a guy who gets blatantly held fights past it and gets a sack anyway. Even a QB who's on the take has to complete some passes in order to make it look good. If he does it on a play where a defender slips or takes a bad angle, oops, we just accidentally scored a touchdown, because somebody forgot to pay off the WR.

But in games where holding penalties are virtually uncalled, or where phantom calls that can't be shown on any replay happen in key situations, and that small market team that lags in jersey sales loses a heartbreaker at home to one of the league's golden boys, well, shit, I guess we'll get 'em next year. But next year never comes for some reason.

Seriously, do you not watch Chiefs games?

GoChargers
12-16-2012, 12:00 AM
so the NFL scripted the Bettis fumble, the Colts guy picked it up, and instead of him running to the outside where he'd score easy he cut back so Roethlisberger could tackle him and then Vanderjagt was scripted to miss that field goal by 90 yards?

MAN, THE NFL IS GOOD!

No, but after that happened, they absolutely rigged Super Bowl XL in one of the most despicable screwjobs in sports history.

The screwjob was so bad and so obvious, Leavy apologized publicly for it four years later.

Again, I don't think every NFL game is fixed - but if a chain of events occurs that enables a particular dramatic, headline-grabbing storyline to take shape, the NFL will move heaven and Earth to make it happen. Without the fumble and missed kick in the AFC title game, the Seahawks probably end up winning it all that year... but since the Steelers won and Bettis had the opportunity to go out with a ring in his hometown, the NFL made it happen.

Rugby Thompson
12-16-2012, 12:09 AM
watch?v=1KdbcsjXVIw -


copy that into youtube, this game was SO rigged. We should have won but of course the all american golden boy has to win it. This kills me inside

GoChargers
12-16-2012, 12:10 AM
I think there is too much going on too fast, too many players on the field for a game to be rigged. The only way I can really see that happening is if a ref is being paid off or something, but even then that ref has to think on his feet pretty damn fast and know when exactly the right time would be to screw up calls, throw the game etc.

I remember at one point during Super Bowl XL, there was a complete BS holding call on Sean Locklear - but you could clearly see on the replay that Bill Leavy was reaching for his flag before Locklear even touched whoever he was supposedly "holding". It was so obvious that John freaking Madden commented on it live on air.

So yeah, refs can think pretty fast during the course of a game. It doesn't take much thought to make a BS holding call to negate a crucial play, and thanks to the complete lack of any accountability for refs in sports, it doesn't even have to be real.

BossChief
12-16-2012, 12:29 AM
The refs are the ones tied to the Mafia. Sports gambling is a multi billion dollar industry.

These guys can make any "adjustments" they need to to sway the game one way or another.

If they want the game to go over a certain amount of points, the refs call more penalties on the defense...if they want less scoring, more penalties on the offense.

There are tons of ways for the refs to easily manipulate games.

notorious
12-16-2012, 07:37 AM
The holding call.



One ref. One call. That is all that it takes.

beach tribe
12-16-2012, 07:44 AM
If this was true then why bing in instant replay?

And if it wasn't, how would they still be able to get calls completely wrong with it right there in HD for them to see.

beach tribe
12-16-2012, 07:50 AM
The holding call.



One ref. One call. That is all that it takes.

Been saying it since page 1. 3rd and 6 play goes for 70 yards, yet now it's 3rd and 16, and 3rd and 16 has about a 5% chance of being converted if they even make an attempt at it, and if they do make it, it's probably 3rd and 26.
These things cannot be overcome, and it doesn't take very many of them to completely change a game, and can be called on ANY PLAY.
Again. This doesn't happen a lot, but it was all too obvious sometimes.
The Steelers Seahawks SB for instance.

notorious
12-16-2012, 07:57 AM
Been saying it since page 1. 3rd and 6 play goes for 70 yards, yet now it's 3rd and 16, and 3rd and 16 has about a 5% chance of being converted if they even make an attempt at it, and if they do make it, it's probably 3rd and 26.
These things cannot be overcome, and it doesn't take very many of them to completely change a game, and can be called on ANY PLAY.
Again. This doesn't happen a lot, but it was all too obvious sometimes.
The Steelers Seahawks SB for instance.

I have kept repeating it throughout the thread for the blind to keep reading.

Nobody can refute our claim, becuase they know it's 100% true.

htismaqe
12-16-2012, 11:03 AM
I have kept repeating it throughout the thread for the blind to keep reading.

Nobody can refute our claim, becuase they know it's 100% true.

Not too many people are refuting that deliberately bad calls happen.

Not too many people are even refuting that some games are fixed.

What people are refuting is that the ENTIRE NFL is rigged, ala the WWE.

notorious
12-16-2012, 11:08 AM
Not too many people are refuting that deliberately bad calls happen.

Not too many people are even refuting that some games are fixed.

What people are refuting is that the ENTIRE NFL is rigged, ala the WWE.

I don't believe the entire league is rigged. It doesn't take a lot to manipulate an outcome of a single game, though.

Discuss Thrower
12-16-2012, 12:04 PM
Inept Ravens crack a 12 yard rush, holding call on the Center as a Donk lineman falls down.

Torrey Smith gets mauled on a short pass attempt, no call for defensive holding.

But the game is not rigged.

MahiMike
12-16-2012, 12:10 PM
Watching the Jags game I immediately thought of this thread. 3-3, Jags recover a fumble on Dolphins 20. 1st down strike on beautiful pass to Blackmon. TD. But wait...

Illegal man down field. huh? This guy has reported eligible on last 6 plays but not on the TD play?

Yep, rigged.

GloryDayz
12-16-2012, 12:10 PM
Yeah, I can't wait until the next 13-3 bye one-and-done playoff effort.

God that game hurt! Hope turned to dust that day. Manning showed us the God he is (compared to Robinson's defense!).. Dick cried!

GloryDayz
12-16-2012, 12:12 PM
The holding penalty is the perfect vessel to control a game.

Or lack thereof...

notorious
12-16-2012, 12:12 PM
God all three of thoses games hurt! Hope turned to dust that day.

FYP

GloryDayz
12-16-2012, 12:29 PM
SHORTEN THE OP

Get rid of OP repeats! Especially if they're more that a few written lines. If there are pics, it's just crazy....

kcpasco
12-16-2012, 12:33 PM
Well I hope the league favors the Raiders today.
Lots and lots of holding calls against the Chiefs please.

stevieray
12-16-2012, 12:35 PM
anyone who can't see that bad calls keep stalled drives alive, and steal momentum from others is blind.

it's no secret that preferred teams get these types of calls.

the league is getting boring....how many of the same teams have been in the playoffs the last five years?

GloryDayz
12-16-2012, 12:44 PM
anyone who can't see that bad calls keep stalled drives alive, and steal momentum from others is blind.

it's no secret that preferred teams get these types of calls.

the league is getting boring....how many of the same teams have been in the playoffs the last five years?

I can see how Pioli's presence in KC would have officials favor the other teams. They would have done more of that when he was in NE but BB and Kraft overrode their desire to stick it to Pioli..

GloryDayz
12-16-2012, 01:00 PM
And the call that just happened in the Green Bay game.... Interesting... I can connect the dots at that one official did from 80 additional feet farther away than the official who was standing right there, but I'd also argue, had he been a bit closer, that extended arm was as much a push-off as what he thought was PI...

But alas, the call led to a TD, and that's what the NFL wants to see on more drives than not. So I think it's fair to say there are favorites and selective application of any number of rules allows for those storybook endings to happen on an increasing basis.

The kep int eh OP and the you tube video is that the NFL is officially classified as "entertainment" and as such will always make sure that profits come first. What they'll need to do now is to subtly make adjustments until this cloud passes.

Discuss Thrower
12-16-2012, 01:38 PM
Foster busts a TD that would put the Texans 30-17 with 10 left over Indy but Wade Smith called for a, wait for it, hold for grabbing the DT's right shoulder.

ChiefsCountry
12-16-2012, 01:48 PM
the league is getting boring....how many of the same teams have been in the playoffs the last five years?

You mean the teams with the best quarterbacks.

stevieray
12-16-2012, 01:59 PM
You mean the teams with the best quarterbacks.
...you mean the league that has put skirts on QB's and WR's?

Rugby Thompson
12-16-2012, 02:02 PM
You're right, the league is getting boring. Just by watching NFL network, you can tell how different everything is now.

Discuss Thrower
12-16-2012, 03:10 PM
So I looked up the line on HOU IND... 47.5 on the over/under.

The game ended up 46 points..

GoChargers
12-16-2012, 03:22 PM
You're right, the league is getting boring. Just by watching NFL network, you can tell how different everything is now.

Yep. The same teams win every year, and they always have the most annoying cockiest fanbases and the most drooling media hype.

Of course, I guess it's easy to be cocky and get hyped when you're favored.

lewdog
12-16-2012, 03:26 PM
So I looked up the line on HOU IND... 47.5 on the over/under.

The game ended up 46 points..

And the spread was Indy +10. The texans had a chance to just go for it at the 20 yard line on 4th down, Indy down 9 points. meaning they get the first and run the clock out or if you don't, the Colts are still down 2 scores. Instead they kick the field goal and win by 12, thus busting the spread.

Dayze
12-16-2012, 04:06 PM
NCAA is a thousand times more interesting to watch. Once they get an 8 team playoff or something similar, I'm done with the NFL.
shitty tackling, bad officiating, same fucking teams on national TV each week. over saturated; pussy qb rules. geared 100% towards offense. gay ass fantasy football.

NFL blows.
I've only seen Chiefs game this year. couldn't even tell you who are the playoff teams; I couldn't even post a Super Bowl prediction in the SB prediction thred.

GoChargers
12-16-2012, 05:45 PM
The NBA blows both the NFL and N-SEC-AA out of the water.

The NBA is even more fairly officiated than the NFL these days, which is sad, because the NBA emloyed Tim Donaghy and continues to employ Joey Crawford.

I've watched maybe two Chargers games all year. My attention is fully focused on the Clippers right now - an actual good team that puts out a good product and who has started to care about winning.

Rugby Thompson
12-16-2012, 07:56 PM
Yep. The same teams win every year, and they always have the most annoying cockiest fanbases and the most drooling media hype.

Of course, I guess it's easy to be cocky and get hyped when you're favored.

The league just doesn't have the same feel anymore, it isn't as intense as it used to be. Now, it's just all strictly business, there's no heart & soul or loyalty like it used to have.

NFL network sucks, they make the league look bad. They never show NFL films anymore, it's always NFL AM for 6 hours straight, then NFL fantasy live then NFL total access then it's repeats of a game or repeats of NFL total access. It could be such a better channel like it used too and keep me in tune with the league but it doesn't anymore. They criticize ESPN for the tebow talk but all they talk about is Tebow, dallas, ravens, giants and san fran. I hate it. There's no reason why NFL fantasy should be on every day, once a week is fine.

Valiant
12-16-2012, 08:09 PM
I wonder if this also plays into drafting.. You know, those super questionable picks that make no fucking sense, and by doing so a big market team gets their player..

The only thing that fucks stuff up like it would of been Al..

Rugby Thompson
12-16-2012, 08:22 PM
I wonder if this also plays into drafting.. You know, those super questionable picks that make no ****ing sense, and by doing so a big market team gets their player..

The only thing that ****s stuff up like it would of been Al..

It does, for sure.

mr. tegu
12-16-2012, 09:16 PM
As someone who has been in and out of football betting over the last 15 years, I've seen a lot of instances that were very odd. However, one this season was just plain ridiculous. A couple weeks back when the Giants routed the Packers 38-10 and at the end of the game the Giants went for a td on 3rd and 4th down with back to back fades to the corner of the end zone instead of kicking a field goal. I was barely watching the game, but that caught my attention - I mentioned to my wife (who could have cared less) that the over/under on the game had to be 50. Out of curiosity, I looked it up and there it was 50.5....

48 + 3 = 51 which equals an over hitting didn't need the TD. So nothing peculiar there unless you are contending that the two TD attempts were purposely missed.

Setsuna
12-16-2012, 09:28 PM
This Pats/49ers game is starting to look it. Harbaugh is a smart coach, no way he puts on the breaks on the damn Pats.

GoChargers
12-16-2012, 09:32 PM
A "miraculous" Patriots comeback fueled by complete BS homer calls and an opposing coach coaching out of character. Wow, what a surprise.

Nzoner
12-19-2012, 08:58 AM
I had to copy and paste this from the OP as something I heard on NFL Network this last weekend made me recall it.

Sometimes the NFL even mocks you by telling you this as they ran a 4 minute piece on the NFL pre-game show

So Sunday morning on NFL Network they run a very brief promo for Mondays NFL A.M. and one sentence was something like,"and join us as we discuss the fallout in Foxboro after the big game between the 49er's and Patriots."

The "fallout in Foxboro" is what caught my attention.Maybe nothing but I did tell a friend who gambles quite frequently to take the 49er's and the points. :)

Discuss Thrower
12-19-2012, 09:20 AM
I had to copy and paste this from the OP as something I heard on NFL Network this last weekend made me recall it.



So Sunday morning on NFL Network they run a very brief promo for Mondays NFL A.M. and one sentence was something like,"and join us as we discuss the fallout in Foxboro after the big game between the 49er's and Patriots."

The "fallout in Foxboro" is what caught my attention.Maybe nothing but I did tell a friend who gambles quite frequently to take the 49er's and the points. :)

Someone forgot that "fallout" is not exactly synonymous with "aftermath".

-King-
01-17-2013, 06:49 PM
So....how does that guy explain Manning losing this weekend?

Cephalic Trauma
01-17-2013, 07:14 PM
So....how does that guy explain Manning losing this weekend?

Ray Lewis?:shrug:

mr. tegu
01-17-2013, 07:20 PM
So....how does that guy explain Manning losing this weekend?

I was streaming some donkey sports radio on Monday and a host on one of the shows was absolutely convinced the game was fixed and that the league wanted Lewis to go out on top and be the story line of the playoffs. LOL

Cephalic Trauma
01-17-2013, 07:28 PM
Well think about it, they could use any angle they wanted for it being fixed.

Ravens- Lewis
Patriots- Kraft
Niners- New stadium
Falcons- Arthur Blank, head of the NFL compensation committee (who pays Goodell)

:hmmm:Interesting...

Frazod
01-17-2013, 07:32 PM
So....how does that guy explain Manning losing this weekend?

I was wondering the same thing - seems like it would definitely be in the NFL's best interest to have another Manning v. Brady puke-fest.

Say you're a ref with your marching orders - push the game toward a Denver victory. Right up until the end of regulation, that looked to be the case - then Flacco hits that beautiful, long bomb TD to tie the game. Could they have called a phantom hold or something? Perhaps, but what are the odds that play is going to be successful? Even if they are bent, they can only do so much.

And then Manning shit his pants in overtime with that interception. There's nothing an official can do to not make him throw that pass.

All I know is that I'm very happy with the outcome. Seems like that doesn't happen much anymore.

hometeam
01-17-2013, 07:41 PM
So....how does that guy explain Manning losing this weekend?

This time they are going for the Harbowl.

Gadzooks
01-17-2013, 08:01 PM
In the Ravens/Chargers game, the Ravens had a 4th and 29 in the 4th quarter.
Flacco throws a dump off to Rice, he runs and falls short of the first down marker and it's ruled a first down, (no measurement from the officials). That was one of many plays this season that left me scratching my head...

mr. tegu
01-17-2013, 08:04 PM
In the Ravens/Chargers game, the Ravens had a 4th and 29 in the 4th quarter.
Flacco throws a dump off to Rice, he runs and falls short of the first down marker and it's ruled a first down, (no measurement from the officials). That was one of many plays this season that left me scratching my head...

Head scratching plays tend to happen when watching a Norv coached team.

Frazod
01-17-2013, 08:10 PM
Another thought - the one thing the NFL cannot control at all is the weather. Manning couldn't play worth a shit in cold weather when he was young - being old isn't going to improve on that.

I remember hoping it would be 10 degrees with blizzard conditions the day the Colts came to Arrowhead in 2004. Instead - 50 and sunny . :banghead:

mesmith31
02-04-2013, 12:39 PM
It was funny, because after I read this post I thought, "There is no way it could be fixed!" There are too many moving parts, too many people that would need to be kept quiet. And then I saw the Raven's first post season game and the Ray Lewis hype machine ramp up, I thought, "Damn....they are going to win the Super Bowl." It has been decided.

The 70 yard amazing dropped coverage by Moore, Tom Brady making Tebowesque throws and his receivers just inexplicably dropping passes. Last night before the Superbowl, the odds makers were saying that San Fran was more likely to win by double digits then the Ravens to win at all.

I told my friends at the party before the game, "The Ravens are winning this thing you just watch." I even told them that it would come down to a goal line stand in the 4th quarter like the Rams/Titans game. When the lights went off, the game was getting out of hand and risked losing ratings, and then miraculously we had a nail biter.

It all got me thinking, "Would you really need that many people involved to put the fix in?" Or would you just need a handful of people who could control the outcome. People like your Tom Brady's. The way you would keep people complicit is by promising to them and delivering on a Superbowl. If your Superbowl win was fixed too, you could never tell, lest your expose yourself as a fraud. You tell them, 'sorry, this is not your year, but you play nice and you will have one in 2 years'.

It couldn't be fixed perfectly, it could be 'steered' however within a margin of error. It was just weird to see the script unfold once it hit me in the Donks/Ravens game.

Anyone have some tinfoil for a hat?

Bump
02-04-2013, 12:48 PM
It was funny, because after I read this post I thought, "There is no way it could be fixed!" There are too many moving parts, too many people that would need to be kept quiet. And then I saw the Raven's first post season game and the Ray Lewis hype machine ramp up, I thought, "Damn....they are going to win the Super Bowl." It has been decided.

The 70 yard amazing dropped coverage by Moore, Tom Brady making Tebowesque throws and his receivers just inexplicably dropping passes. Last night before the Superbowl, the odds makers were saying that San Fran was more likely to win by double digits then the Ravens to win at all.

I told my friends at the party before the game, "The Ravens are winning this thing you just watch." I even told them that it would come down to a goal line stand in the 4th quarter like the Rams/Titans game. When the lights went off, the game was getting out of hand and risked losing ratings, and then miraculously we had a nail biter.

It all got me thinking, "Would you really need that many people involved to put the fix in?" Or would you just need a handful of people who could control the outcome. People like your Tom Brady's. The way you would keep people complicit is by promising to them and delivering on a Superbowl. If your Superbowl win was fixed too, you could never tell, lest your expose yourself as a fraud. You tell them, 'sorry, this is not your year, but you play nice and you will have one in 2 years'.

It couldn't be fixed perfectly, it could be 'steered' however within a margin of error. It was just weird to see the script unfold once it hit me in the Donks/Ravens game.

Anyone have some tinfoil for a hat?

the way I look at it, anything with a ton of money involved, there is going to be some fixing. Nothing with that much money involved is going to be squeaky clean.

gblowfish
02-04-2013, 01:07 PM
Jesus wanted the Ravens to win.
Just ask Ray Ray.

notorious
02-04-2013, 01:23 PM
Jesus wanted the Ravens to win.
Just ask Ray Ray.

1 in 3 people agree.

Frazod
02-04-2013, 01:49 PM
It would certainly explain why Jim Harbaugh completely stuck his head up his ass at the end of the game.

warpaint*
02-04-2013, 01:55 PM
Is it any wonder people believe in ufo's

mesmith31
02-04-2013, 01:55 PM
And why John decides to take 3 points off the board to keep the game close by faking a frigging field goal and run it with your kicker?!

mr. tegu
02-04-2013, 02:01 PM
If it was fixed that Baltimore win would it really be risked coming down to a goal line stand? In the Denver game would they really leave it up to Flacco throwing a hail mary to get that TD? If they wanted a close game as is mentioned earlier, would they really let Jones return a 109 yard TD with no flags? And on and on and on.

warpaint*
02-04-2013, 02:12 PM
If it was fixed that Baltimore win would it really be risked coming down to a goal line stand? In the Denver game would they really leave it up to Flacco throwing a hail mary to get that TD? If they wanted a close game as is mentioned earlier, would they really let Jones return a 109 yard TD with no flags? And on and on and on.

If someone wants to believe games are fixed there are so many moving parts creating a false narrative by stringing together independent facts/occurrences is a piece of cake.

That is not to say that no one has ever attempted to or succeeded at fixing a game or that it won't occur again at some point in the future. Common sense dictates otherwise. But the notion that the league in general is fixed is absurd.

cosmo20002
02-04-2013, 02:15 PM
Breaking news: Physical activities such as executing a football play are not always done with 100% precision and perfection. Doesn't mean it is fixed, morons.

Amnorix
02-04-2013, 02:23 PM
This thread hasn't gotten any more interesting or insightful since it started.

There were potential penalties on the Niners that were also ignored. Any fact which goes against the conspiracy theory promptly gets ignored. Just read through all the posts in THIS thread about how things are going to get fixed for this result or that result, and then this result or that result doesn't happen.

It's all nothing more than a bunch of bitching and whining by people who are looking for reasons that THEIR team didn't win it all or do better or whatever. Cuz yeah, BALTIMORE -- the NFL really wanted to hear all about Ray Lewis's murders and all that crap leading up to this week, or watch Jim Harbaugh act like a 4 year old on the sidelines over and over again.

:rolleyes:

Now it's clearly it was fixed for Baltimore. Uhh...why? Why in the world would the NFL do better, be more profitable, make more money or generally be happier if Baltimore won than if the Niners won?

siberian khatru
02-04-2013, 02:26 PM
Looks like they got to Amnorix, too.

Frazod
02-04-2013, 02:31 PM
Looks like they got to Amnorix, too.

Government lemmings don't like to question the NFL, either.

mr. tegu
02-04-2013, 02:35 PM
If someone wants to believe games are fixed there are so many moving parts creating a false narrative by stringing together independent facts/occurrences is a piece of cake.

That is not to say that no one has ever attempted to or succeeded at fixing a game or that it won't occur again at some point in the future. Common sense dictates otherwise. But the notion that the league in general is fixed is absurd.

Exactly. If someone wanted to fix a game for the purposes of making money the best way to do it would be to fix a game at the end of September in Jacksonville, then just bet on whatever team they are fixing it in favor of. You would only have to get to one player. No story lines to fix or narratives to follow or multiple people to get it on it.

Just get to one player and say, "Your hands are going to be a little slippery today," or "it seems like one of those days where you are going to forget how to play pass defense." No one would ever know. There is way too much risk involved to fix a super bowl. If something leaked out the game could be ruined forever.

DJJasonp
02-04-2013, 02:38 PM
For what it's worth:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/05/sports/soccer/investigation-finds-suspected-fixing-in-680-soccer-matches.html?_r=0

mr. tegu
02-04-2013, 02:42 PM
For what it's worth:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/05/sports/soccer/investigation-finds-suspected-fixing-in-680-soccer-matches.html?_r=0

That is different than what is mostly being discussed here. That is organized crime buying off players. Some in here are suggesting the whole story lines and everything are fixed by the NFL themselves.

mr. tegu
02-04-2013, 02:43 PM
Government lemmings don't like to question the NFL, either.

There is a difference between questioning things and being completely paranoid of everything and everyone out there. Though for you that line was apparently blurred a long time ago.

mesmith31
02-04-2013, 02:47 PM
For the record, I am suggesting for the sake of argument that the games are 'steered' in a direction, by certain key difference makers and game changers. It would, as you suggest have to many moving parts to have everyone in on it.

Things like a 109 yard run back, that's gonna happen. Real football plays would be made and things wouldn't always happen on script, because sometimes the people who could do something about it would not be on the field. In most all cases in sports where the fix was in, it came down to a couple of people shaving points, taking a dive, whatever.

warpaint*
02-04-2013, 02:47 PM
Exactly. If someone wanted to fix a game for the purposes of making money the best way to do it would be to fix a game at the end of September in Jacksonville, then just bet on whatever team they are fixing it in favor of. You would only have to get to one player. No story lines to fix or narratives to follow or multiple people to get it on it.

Just get to one player and say, "Your hands are going to be a little slippery today," or "it seems like one of those days where you are going to forget how to play pass defense." No one would ever know. There is way too much risk involved to fix a super bowl. If something leaked out the game could be ruined forever.

Oh ya. That's true too from the other side of it. It's absolutely impossible to keep something like that under wraps b/c of as you alluded too many moving parts and flapping traps. It is inconceivable in terms of being an ongoing modus operandi.

Also as you said, think about gambling scandals and the types of games likely to be involved, throwaway games no one's paying attn to

Northwestern basketball. Boston College football. Tulane football. Toledo basketball and football. It is USUALLY lower profile games.

warpaint*
02-04-2013, 02:49 PM
That is different than what is mostly being discussed here. That is organized crime buying off players. Some in here are suggesting the whole story lines and everything are fixed by the NFL themselves.

Which is an enormous distinction.

Frazod
02-04-2013, 02:59 PM
There is a difference between questioning things and being completely paranoid of everything and everyone out there. Though for you that line was apparently blurred a long time ago.

Here's a little hint for you, cunt. I didn't write the article - just because I posted it, doesn't mean I agree with every single word written, not did I reseach the validity of every point the author (who again, isn't me) made. It's an article on the internet, not a fucking affidavit. Perhaps cosmo and some of the mouth-breathing sheep that infest this place could note this as well.

However, if you do read through that entire post (which I'm sure didn't bother to do, since it's LIES ALL LIES LIES LIES LIES), even if some of the allegations can be shrugged off as honest mistakes, true horrible efforts, etc., can they all be?

Blur that line, douche.

mr. tegu
02-04-2013, 03:34 PM
Here's a little hint for you, ****. I didn't write the article - just because I posted it, doesn't mean I agree with every single word written, not did I reseach the validity of every point the author (who again, isn't me) made. It's an article on the internet, not a ****ing affidavit. Perhaps cosmo and some of the mouth-breathing sheep that infest this place could note this as well.

However, if you do read through that entire post (which I'm sure didn't bother to do, since it's LIES ALL LIES LIES LIES LIES), even if some of the allegations can be shrugged off as honest mistakes, true horrible efforts, etc., can they all be?

Blur that line, douche.

LMAO

I read the whole thing a long time ago. To suggest the NFL is actively creating story lines and making sure certain teams win is simply a product of your paranoia. Your posts seemed to indicate this author was embarking on a just and noble cause, because you know, "it's important." If the best thing you can say abou this is that you don't agree with every single word written, then you are still gobbling it up on the same levels you do all the other conspiracy stuff you get off on.

One would be naive to think games are not occasionally fixed, but believing the whole league is set up for certain story lines by the NFL for profit is laughable.

BTW, nice job belittling the article. For a message that you said was "important" you sure don't seem to think too much of its validity, the author, or its delivery platform.

Saul Good
02-04-2013, 03:47 PM
Oh ya. That's true too from the other side of it. It's absolutely impossible to keep something like that under wraps b/c of as you alluded too many moving parts and flapping traps. It is inconceivable in terms of being an ongoing modus operandi.

Also as you said, think about gambling scandals and the types of games likely to be involved, throwaway games no one's paying attn to

Northwestern basketball. Boston College football. Tulane football. Toledo basketball and football. It is USUALLY lower profile games.

Problem with that is that you can't really put a ton of money on a low profile game without drawing suspicion.

RyFo18
02-04-2013, 04:03 PM
I found it awkward that of all times for the power to go out in the Superdome, it happens during the biggest game of the year. The NFL has been actively trying to get New Orleans to build a new stadium.

Frazod
02-04-2013, 04:03 PM
LMAO

I read the whole thing a long time ago. To suggest the NFL is actively creating story lines and making sure certain teams win is simply a product of your paranoia. Your posts seemed to indicate this author was embarking on a just and noble cause, because you know, "it's important." If the best thing you can say abou this is that you don't agree with every single word written, then you are still gobbling it up on the same levels you do all the other conspiracy stuff you get off on.

One would be naive to think games are not occasionally fixed, but believing the whole league is set up for certain story lines by the NFL for profit is laughable.

BTW, nice job belittling the article. For a message that you said was "important" you sure don't seem to think too much of its validity, the author, or its delivery platform.

How did I belittle it? BTW, I said it was "informative," not "important." Dumbass. This may surprise you, but not all long words that start with the letter "i" have the same meaning. I guess you just got confused. You also seem to confuse one's willingness to believe certain theories, or questioning official stories that stink like bullshit with them being a lunatic. Although refusing to question anything definitely makes one a complete fucking tool.

It is also possible that you may be confusing me with other people who post here. It appears you confuse rather easily.

I'm much more of a cynic than conspiracy theorist. Cynicism cuts through bullshit like a razor sharp knife.

Amnorix
02-04-2013, 04:15 PM
How did I belittle it? BTW, I said it was "informative," not "important." Dumbass. This may surprise you, but not all long words that start with the letter "i" have the same meaning. I guess you just got confused. You also seem to confuse one's willingness to believe certain theories, or questioning official stories that stink like bullshit with them being a lunatic. Although refusing to question anything definitely makes one a complete fucking tool.

It is also possible that you may be confusing me with other people who post here. It appears you confuse rather easily.

I'm much more of a cynic than conspiracy theorist. Cynicism cuts through bullshit like a razor sharp knife.


So....you post the article, you agree with the article in a general, unspecific sort of way, but anything that the article got wrong doesn't much matter because it's the larger scope of the article that matters.

Your position now is "well, I didn't write and I don't swear by any of it, but because there's alot of stuff there, almost certainly SOME of it is true, so yeah, THAT"

errr...ok.

How about this -- the concept is pretty f'n ridiculous. Believe whatever you want, but to suggest an NFL-managed conspiracy against KC is just asinine.

The Colts? They were near the top of the NFL for almost 10 years, won a SB, went to another, were in many BIG games. Do they have any more of a market than KC? Nope.

The Bears? They had one decent year and a few not-suck years since the Payton era, and have otherwise generally been mediocre, DESPITE being in as big a market as you can get. Hell, on balance they've been pretty damn medicore for the entire Super Bowl era. Damn near 50 years and ONE Super Bowl win, and one loss, and that's it. Hell, the Ravens have been to as many Super Bowls in their 15 or so years of existence, and won both.

Philadelphia Eagles? 50 years and 2 SB appearances, BOTH losses.

The Jets? The laughingstocks of the NFL since Richard Fucking Nixon, despite being in NYC. Yeah, the Giants are there too, but they still have ALOT of fans.

The Patriots SUCKED for 40 freaking years and it wasn't a conspiracy until ten years ago, when SUDDENLY the NFL said "oh, Boston is a big East Coast city, let's give them a zillion wins and make them dominant." New ownershp and Parcells and Bledsoe and Brady and Belichick had nothing to do with it, I'm sure.

Redskins are as big as big market teams get, but have SUCKED since Clinton was in office?

Let's face it, you just cherry pick the facts that seem to support your crackpot theory and ignore the millions of facts that don't, while acting like the rest of us are suckers and lemmings for being too stupid to see the obvious reality that the NFL is fixed. Yeah, no. Take off the blinders and see all the OTHER fcts that go against what you're saying.

mr. tegu
02-04-2013, 04:27 PM
How did I belittle it? BTW, I said it was "informative," not "important." Dumbass. This may surprise you, but not all long words that start with the letter "i" have the same meaning. I guess you just got confused. You also seem to confuse one's willingness to believe certain theories, or questioning official stories that stink like bullshit with them being a lunatic. Although refusing to question anything definitely makes one a complete ****ing tool.

It is also possible that you may be confusing me with other people who post here. It appears you confuse rather easily.

I'm much more of a cynic than conspiracy theorist. Cynicism cuts through bullshit like a razor sharp knife.

ROFLROFLROFL

I stopped reading your idiotic drivel at your rant about important because of this:

I'm willing to cut the messenger a little slack. The message is important.

This response is going to be a good one.

DonTellMeShowMe
02-04-2013, 05:32 PM
I'm slowing buying into this after last night. Let me get my tin foil

Frazod
02-04-2013, 05:44 PM
ROFLROFLROFL

I stopped reading your idiotic drivel at your rant about important because of this:



This response is going to be a good one.

:clap:

You got me, spanky. Sorry I didn't have time to pour over a 200+ post thread for that nearly two-month old post. I just assumed you were that fucking stupid because that's basically all I've seen from you, on those rare occasions when I bother to notice.

Enjoy your little victory, though. I'm sure you don't get many of them.

BTW, does your opinion hold for everybody who agreed with me (you must have noticed them while doing your digging) or just me?

Jerm
02-04-2013, 05:48 PM
Super Bowl III was fixed, no doubt in my mind.