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View Full Version : Chiefs Offense vs Defense Etc....


Marcellus
12-16-2012, 07:28 PM
Looking into stats after the game due to the CArr conversations and the lack of offense today I found a few interesting tidbits. To me any ways



We are 10th in pass defense this year at 218 yards a game. This is a time where passing is top dog in the NFL.
We are 26th and giving up 131 yards a game in rushing.
That tells you we are getting behind and teams are running on us later.
We are 30th in passing yards at less than 200 a game (186). See point 1.
We are 5th in rushing at 149 a game. We rush for only 33 yards a game less than we pass?

We all know the Qb situation is killing us but damn, its really really killing us.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?team=kc



All the complaining about Carr being gone etc... is meaningless. Stick to the core issue, the QB position.


>than 200 yards a game passing for a season in this day and age? JFC kill me now.

loochy
12-16-2012, 07:30 PM
i can't believe they let carr go

Kraus
12-16-2012, 07:42 PM
Why pass when you can so easily run on us?

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2012, 07:49 PM
Why pass when you can so easily run on us?

Exactly.

That's why the pass defense numbers look decent. No one needs to throw.

Marcellus
12-16-2012, 07:53 PM
Exactly.

That's why the pass defense numbers look decent. No one needs to throw.

I have yet to see a team just run it down our throats. Its usually late in games after we have been behind they run the ball well and that's after the defense has been exhausted.

Offense is the issue it really is.

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2012, 08:05 PM
I have yet to see a team just run it down our throats. Its usually late in games after we have been behind they run the ball well and that's after the defense has been exhausted.

Offense is the issue it really is.

You haven't been watching very close then.

We've given up more rushing yards (545) in the first quarter than in any other quarter.

We've given up 997 yards rushing on 217 attempts (4.6 YPC) in the first half.

896 yards on 191 attempts (4.7 YPC) in the second half.

We suck against the run. Period.

notorious
12-16-2012, 08:06 PM
Who is the hell has a worse passing attack than us? JFC

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2012, 08:08 PM
Christ, we're giving up 5.3 YPC on our opponent's first 10 rushing attempts of each game.

That YPC is higher than at any other point of the game, by over half of a yard.

Fat Elvis
12-16-2012, 08:09 PM
You haven't been watching very close then.

We've given up more rushing yards (545) in the first quarter than in any other quarter.

We've given up 997 yards rushing on 217 attempts (4.6 YPC) in the first half.

896 yards on 191 attempts (4.7 YPC) in the second half.

We suck against the run. Period.

FYP

Dave Lane
12-16-2012, 08:09 PM
Jacksonville?

Marcellus
12-16-2012, 08:09 PM
You haven't been watching very close then.

We've given up more rushing yards (545) in the first quarter than in any other quarter.

We've given up 997 yards rushing on 217 attempts (4.6 YPC) in the first half.

896 yards on 191 attempts (4.7 YPC) in the second half.

We suck against the run. Period.

Those are some interesting numbers I didn't research. It doesn't seem watching we are getting plowed by the run early.

It doesn't exactly support the argument that losing Carr is hurting us though.

And the offensive numbers are still way more disturbing to me.

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2012, 08:11 PM
Those are some interesting numbers I didn't research. It doesn't seem watching we are getting plowed by the run early.

It doesn't exactly support the argument that losing Carr is hurting us though.

And the offensive numbers are still way more disturbing to me.

You don't need stats to know that Carr > Routt, Brown or Arenas.

GloryDayz
12-16-2012, 08:11 PM
We've become the other teams we play 2nd bye week! What's that say?

Marcellus
12-16-2012, 08:11 PM
FYP

Really? You would think run defense is our biggest issue not knowing the stats?

Go back and read the game threads and tell me that's the consensus.

I dont see a thread titled "we need a NT" or "fix the run defense".

I see about 3 on the Carr situation.

Who is off base here?

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2012, 08:12 PM
Those are some interesting numbers I didn't research. It doesn't seem watching we are getting plowed by the run early.

It doesn't exactly support the argument that losing Carr is hurting us though.

And the offensive numbers are still way more disturbing to me.

And that's like saying ass cancer is more disturbing than throat cancer.

This team has a LOT of problems.

Marcellus
12-16-2012, 08:12 PM
You don't need stats to know that Carr > Routt, Brown or Arenas.

No, nor do I need stats to tell me our offense is the issue.

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2012, 08:13 PM
No, nor do I need stats to tell me our offense is the issue.

An issue. Not the issue.

This TEAM sucks.

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2012, 08:15 PM
This organization is broken at every level.

Ownership.

Front office.

Coaching staff.

Offense.

Defense.

Special teams.


You're in denial if you think you can contribute 2-14 to just the offense. Or even mainly the offense.

They've all played a LARGE role.

Fixing one doesn't solve anything long term. They all need fixing.

Marcellus
12-16-2012, 08:17 PM
An issue. Not the issue.

This TEAM sucks.

No offense and especially QB is THE issue. This defense would be more than serviceable playing with a lead on an occasion.

GB, NE, Indy, and Washington all have suspect defenses but are in the hunt. Why? Because of the QB.

Our defense is better than all of those teams with a decent offense ahead of them.

Marcellus
12-16-2012, 08:17 PM
This organization is broken at every level.

Ownership.

Front office.

Coaching staff.

Offense.

Defense.

Special teams.


You're in denial if you think you can contribute 2-14 to just the offense. Or even mainly the offense.

They've all played a LARGE role.

Fixing one doesn't solve anything long term. They all need fixing.

Andrew Luck and RGIII disagree

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2012, 08:18 PM
You're in serious denial about the level of "talent" on this team.

mcaj22
12-16-2012, 08:21 PM
i dont think it is about Brandon Carr can only net us on 1 more win than we already have so who cares about having him or not analytics. This is not the MLB or NBA where that actually matters.

What matters is having a good QB, and having talent around that QB. For the sake of saying we get a good QB someday, we currently would have no legit talent around him sans like 5 players. And the point is, what is the point of letting GOOD IN THEIR PRIME HOMEGROWN TALENT WALK FOR NOTHING, if.... you barely hit on draft picks anyway.

To hit on a draft pick is very rare for the Chiefs in the last five years. And fans have rallied around and clung to guys like Hali, Flowers, Bowe, Charles, DJ for that very reason. Houston so much more because well... JUSTIN HOUSTON IS THE ONLY IMPACT PLAYER IN FOUR YEARS THE CHIEFS HAVE SUCCUSSFULLY MANAGED TO DRAFT. And as a fan, that feels ****ing good.

The point is you are 20, 30, 40 million under the cap and you are letting your own draft picks walk, and not evening spending it elsewhere anyway in a smart matter.

It's an awful way to run an orgranization, if you are not going to develop through the draft OR splash in FA. Then what the **** is the point of being an NFL team. It is clear that the Chiefs have chose to not do either route. I'd like them to pick one and stick with it, but they are clearly awful at both

Marcellus
12-16-2012, 08:21 PM
You're in serious denial about the level of "talent" on this team.

No I think the fail at the GM and coaching level namely at QB and coaching level has created a downward spiral from hell.

See SF before hiring Cpt Comeback.

You think this team with another HC and with Luck or RGIII or even Russel Wilson at QB isn't a playoff contender? Seriously?

OnTheWarpath58
12-16-2012, 08:28 PM
No I think the fail at the GM and coaching level namely at QB and coaching level has created a downward spiral from hell.

See SF before hiring Cpt Comeback.

You think this team with another HC and with Luck or RGIII or even Russel Wilson at QB isn't a playoff contender? Seriously?

Playoffs?

Easy on the Kool-Aid, dude.

Jesus Christ could be the QB. With arguably one impact player drafted or signed in 4 years, plus this coaching staff, no, they're not even close to a playoff contender.

They need a GM who values talent more than character.

They need a coaching staff that realizes its 2012 and not 1990.

They need impact players on both sides of the ball, including at QB.

Until then, this organization isn't sniffing the playoffs.

cdcox
12-16-2012, 08:30 PM
Those NFL rankings are next to meaningless because teams will run against us more when they are leading, thus leading to more rushing yards and fewer passing yards. You need to select stats that are meaningful on a per play basis, such as those used by Advanced NFL Stats for their team ratings.

If you look at adjusted yards per attempt, our defense is allowing 7.3 compared to a league average of 6.3. Only two teams are worse at 7.5. Our pass defense is horrible.

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2012/12/team-efficiency-rankings-week-15.html

Marcellus
12-16-2012, 08:33 PM
Playoffs?

Easy on the Kool-Aid, dude.

Jesus Christ could be the QB. With arguably one impact player drafted or signed in 4 years, plus this coaching staff, no, they're not even close to a playoff contender.

They need a GM who values talent more than character.

They need a coaching staff that realizes its 2012 and not 1990.

They need impact players on both sides of the ball, including at QB.

Until then, this organization isn't sniffing the playoffs.

I disagree, big time.

Granted we have some Paper Tigers but at the same time at key positions outside of QB we arent that bad.

We need a Qb a #2 CB a # 2 safety and some DL work which all could be fixed in 1 or 2 off seasons. Seriously.

I guess that's allowing that Bowe could be resigned and Breaston resurrected from the dead.

What aree besides QB are we just hosed to the point a draft pick or 2 wouldn't fix assuming Bowe is signed?

Keep in mind this is assuming a new regime and new coaching staff.

DE seems to be a likely problem for a while.

mcaj22
12-16-2012, 08:33 PM
you have to be some kind of homer if you think trotting Jalil Brown, Stanford Dishroutt and whatever the hell else over keeping someone like Brandon Carr is okay to pass off, because we dont have a QB or coaching staff

those are crap excuses, keeping positional talent still matters once you get a good QB.

mcaj22
12-16-2012, 08:35 PM
I disagree, big time.

Granted we have some Paper Tigers but at the same time at key positions outside of QB we arent that bad.

We need a Qb a #2 CB a # 2 safety and some DL work which all could be fixed in 1 or 2 off seasons. Seriously.

I guess that's allowing that Bowe could be resigned and Breaston resurrected from the dead.

What aree besides QB are we just hosed to the point a draft pick or 2 wouldn't fix assuming Bowe is signed?

Keep in mind this is assuming a new regime and new coaching staff.

DE seems to be a likely problem for a while.


we need 2 new starting DT/NT/whatever
starting MLBer
all new LBer depth
starting CB
all new CB depth
a starting FS
all new safety depth

just on the defense

and we will need a Punter.

Marcellus
12-16-2012, 08:35 PM
you have to be some kind of homer if you think trotting Jalil Brown, Stanford Dishroutt and whatever the hell else over keeping someone like Brandon Carr is okay to pass off, because we dont have a QB or coaching staff

those are crap excuses, keeping positional talent still matters once you get a good QB.

I think when you dont have a QB it makes that decision look worse than it is. That's a fair assessment I think.

Marcellus
12-16-2012, 08:39 PM
we need 2 new starting DT/NT/whatever
starting MLBer
all new LBer depth
starting CB
all new CB depth
a starting FS
all new safety depth

just on the defense

and we will need a Punter.

Because ours will be worn out? LMAO

Keep in mind most of you posted is "depth". That s needed but not necessary for a turn around. For long term sustainability yes, but you have to start somewhere. We aren't far off given a good QB.

I know this isn't a popular stance given this season but the QB and coaching situation is making everything look 10x worse than it is.


QB is obviously the most important position in professional sports, HC may be #2. Norv has proven that I think.

mcaj22
12-16-2012, 08:40 PM
it's a bad decision no matter how you look at it.

look at some of these teams with GOOD QBs.

the Packers have Aaron Rodgers and they always lock up CBs. they dont let Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams or Sam Shields walk out the door for nothing

Steelers have Big Ben and Ike Taylor got abused in the playoffs last year and they still didnt let him walk out the door.

the Eagles thought they had something in Vick and TRIED to bring in CBs.

The Pats have Tom Brady and they just pillaged and stole ****ing AQIB TALIB from that idiot Greg Schiano for peanuts

The Ravens JUMPED US FOR JIMMY SMITH while our shithead GM was bumbling around selling us kool aid packets on Jon Baldwin and saying Jalil Brown isnt a drop off from Jimmy Smith at Colorado to be taken later

The 49ers keep making sure Carlos Rogers stays in their back pocket

The Jets tried surrounding Sanchez's defencies by locking up Revis and Cromartie, drafting Kyle Wislon


the Seahawks evaluated and plucked Richard Sherman in the 5th round and stole Brandon Browner from Canada.


meanwhile in Kansas City... Brandon Carr walks out the door to the arms of another team for free because our GM has a massive ego and thinks his way is the right way.

Marcellus
12-16-2012, 08:42 PM
it's a bad decision no matter how you look at it.

look at some of these teams with GOOD QBs.

the Packers have Aaron Rodgers and they always lock up CBs. they dont let Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams or Sam Shields walk out the door for nothing

Steelers have Big Ben and Ike Taylor got abused in the playoffs last year and they still didnt let him walk out the door.

the Eagles thought they had something in Vick and TRIED to bring in CBs.

The Pats have Tom Brady and they just pillaged and stole ****ing AQIB TALIB from that idiot Greg Schiano for peanuts

The Ravens JUMPED US FOR JIMMY SMITH while our shithead GM was bumbling around selling us kool aid packets on Jon Baldwin and saying Jalil Brown isnt a drop off from Jimmy Smith at Colorado to be taken later

The 49ers keep making sure Carlos Rodgers stays in their back pocket

The Jets tried surrounding Sanchez's defencies by locking up Revis and Cromartie, drafting Kyle Wislon


the Seahawks evaluated and plucked Richard Sherman in the 5th round and stole Brandon Browner from Canada.


meanwhile in Kansas City... Brandon Carr walks out the door to the arms of another team for free because our GM has a massive ego and thinks his way is the right way.

None of the good teams you listed have 2 "A" level CB's. We still have Flowers.

This is not a defense of Pioli but an attack on our lack of passing offense.

mcaj22
12-16-2012, 08:42 PM
Because ours will be worn out? LMAO

Keep in mind most of you posted is "depth". That s needed but not necessary for a turn around. For long term sustainability yes, but you have to start somewhere. We aren't far off given a good QB.

I know this isn't a popular stance given this season but the QB and coaching situation is making everything look 10x worse than it is.


QB is obviously the most important position in professional sports, HC may be #2. Norv has proven that I think.

depth?

a starting FS, two new starting DEs or a NT if you wanna move POE to DE, a new MLBer next to DJ and a new CB across from Flowers is... DEPTH?

are you on drugs?

mcaj22
12-16-2012, 08:44 PM
None of the good teams you listed have 2 "A" level CB's. We still have Flowers.

.....
Revis and Cromartie
Rodgers Cromartie, Asomogha
Sherman and Browner
Ike Taylor and Keenan Lewis
Woodson, Williams and Shields
Smith and Webb
McCourty and Talib or the other idiot if you want to count McCourty at SS.

THESE ARE A LIST CBs. At one point or another in the last 4 years these players have ranked in the top 15 top 10 at CB, whether this year is a down year or not the point remains.

Marcellus
12-16-2012, 08:45 PM
depth?

a starting FS, two new starting DEs or a NT if you wanna move POE to DE, a new MLBer next to DJ and a new CB across from Flowers is... DEPTH?

are you on drugs?

We have some guys on the team that can fill some of those holes short term.

#2 CB, another DE, and a MLB are must haves.

I think you are missing the point that our poor offense makes the defense look worse than actual.

mcaj22
12-16-2012, 08:47 PM
We have some guys on the team that can fill some of those holes short term.

#2 CB, another DE, and a MLB are must haves.

I think you are missing the point that our poor offense makes the defense look worse than actual.

please name these "some guys" that can be starters on this team at said positions. Because I sure as hell dont see them and unless they are hidden at the Chiefs facility somewhere until next year, please point them out.

Marcellus
12-16-2012, 08:49 PM
.....
Revis and Cromartie
Rodgers Cromartie, Asomogha
Sherman and Browner
Ike Taylor and Keenan Lewis
Woodson, Williams and Shields
Smith and Webb
McCourty and Talib or the other idiot if you want to count McCourty at SS.

THESE ARE A LIST CBs. At one point or another in the last 4 years these players have ranked in the top 15 top 10 at CB, whether this year is a down year or not the point remains.

The Jets are not a good team.

Sherman and Browner are great and likely suspended for 4 games

Taylor and Lewis both A list? Not sure about that.

GB does not have an A list secondary, sorry. They give up 50 yards a game more than KC and unlike last year they haven't played with a lead most of their games. People run on them to keep Rodgers off the field. (19th in run defense).

Smith and Webb? Both A list? No.

Talib was gifted to NE for a reason NE does not have a player of Flowers caliber in the secondary.

Marcellus
12-16-2012, 08:52 PM
please name these "some guys" that can be starters on this team at said positions. Because I sure as hell dont see them and unless they are hidden at the Chiefs facility somewhere until next year, please point them out.

You only names 3 positions dude. Powe at DE and a new MLB #2 CB and Safety.

Fucking safety shouldn't be a big issue and Hartman actually looked good today.

mcaj22
12-16-2012, 08:52 PM
The Jets are not a good team.

Sherman and Browner are great and likley suspended for 4 games

Taylor and Lewis both A list? Not sure about that.

GB does not have an A list secondary, sorry. They gove up 50 yards a gme more than KC and unlike last year they haven't played with a lead most of their games. People run on them to keep Rodgers off the field. (19th in run defense).

Smith and Webb? Both A list? No.

Talib was gifted for a reason NE does not have a player of Flowers caliber in the secondary.


what are you basing this on, because I am pretty sure you are 100 percent wrong if you are going by opinion. I know this because Ladarius Webb was like the 3rd best rated CB last season. And Smith was top 15. So you are wrong.

mcaj22
12-16-2012, 08:53 PM
You only names 3 positions dude. Powe at DE and a new MLB #2 CB and Safety.

****ing safety shouldn't be a big issue and Hartman actually looked good today.

Powe at DE

and Tyson Whoeverthehellturd are your counter arguments. Guys that cant even sniff anything. Really.

Marcellus
12-16-2012, 08:55 PM
Powe at DE

and Tyson Whoeverthehellturd are your counter arguments. Guys that cant even sniff anything. Really.

If we have a stud QB you wont be worried about it.

People here want a top 5 offense and top 3 defense or it wont work apparently.

Never mind no team top 10 in offense and defense has won a SB since...........

Here is a great article on it.

http://www.freakonomics.com/2012/01/20/does-defense-really-win-championships/

And an even better one.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-09-05/super-bowl-2012-defense-wins-championships-49ers-stats-picks

mcaj22
12-16-2012, 08:57 PM
i think people here just want talent at this point and not a bunch of shit turd draft picks and guys off the street that get outplayed every week

Marcellus
12-16-2012, 09:00 PM
i think people here just want talent at this point and not a bunch of shit turd draft picks and guys off the street that get outplayed every week

I wouldn't argue that. Had picks like the ones we gave for Cassel, DMC, TJ, etc...panned out we wouldn't have an SOC movement going on.

mcaj22
12-16-2012, 09:02 PM
you mean if any picks not named Houston in the last four years panned out.

Marcellus
12-16-2012, 09:04 PM
you mean if any picks not named Houston in the last four years panned out.

Yup Pioi is the turd in the punchbowl but its not that far from being a fixable situation IMO.

Maybe I have like a late season stupor going on, all the negativity is getting to me.