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bricks
12-17-2012, 12:14 PM
PBJ

I'm excited.

SNR
12-17-2012, 12:18 PM
They're working on acquiring TS Penisey next

Infidel Goat
12-17-2012, 12:20 PM
I'm only excited because the O's will have to face him a bunch and I'll consider that karma for one of our board posters...

bricks
12-17-2012, 12:22 PM
They're working on acquiring TS Penisey next

:LOL:

Nice

MotherfuckerJones
12-17-2012, 12:29 PM
They're loading up lol Damn

Prison Bitch
12-17-2012, 01:15 PM
That O's fan on the board isn't scared. Nope. Baltimore will be awesome, even more awesome than last year when they scored as much as their opponents did.

jd1020
12-17-2012, 01:19 PM
They're loading up lol Damn

Are they trying to get a new stadium?

loochy
12-17-2012, 01:21 PM
That O's fan on the board isn't scared. Nope. Baltimore will be awesome, even more awesome than last year when they scored as much as their opponents did.

put it on twitter and he might believe it

The Poz
12-17-2012, 01:29 PM
http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/jays-SP5.jpg

bricks
12-17-2012, 01:35 PM
That O's fan on the board isn't scared. Nope. Baltimore will be awesome, even more awesome than last year when they scored as much as their opponents did.

He should be scared lol

With a starting rotation of Dickey, J Johnson, Buerhle, Romero and Morrow, I think the Bluejays are legit contenders in the AL East. Bring Baltimore on!:p

ChiefsandO'sfan
12-17-2012, 01:38 PM
He should be scared lol

With a starting rotation of Dickey, J Johnson, Buerhle, Romero and Morrow, I think the Bluejays are legit contenders in the AL East. Bring Baltimore on!:p

Dickey and Johnson are studs. The other 3 not scared.

sedated
12-17-2012, 01:44 PM
Dickey and Johnson are studs. The other 3 not scared.

<img src="http://www.perpetualjon.com/files/yoda-you-will-be01.jpg">

Prison Bitch
12-17-2012, 02:11 PM
Dickey and Johnson are studs. The other 3 not scared.


Morrow's 2.4 WAR > than all starters on Baltimore, save for sometimes-starter Jason Hammel's 2.9.

fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2012&ind=0&team=2&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

ChiefsandO'sfan
12-17-2012, 02:18 PM
Morrow's 2.4 WAR > than all starters on Baltimore, save for sometimes-starter Jason Hammel's 2.9.

fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2012&month=0&season1=2012&ind=0&team=2&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

I would worry about the Royals not the O's. Morrow had 4 good games vs the East all last year.

alnorth
12-17-2012, 02:18 PM
Great. Now, go win the AL East.

Zeke
12-17-2012, 02:45 PM
I would worry about the Royals not the O's. Morrow had 4 good games vs the East all last year.

We've been telling you the same thing in reverse for some time now. I'd like to introduce you to my friend, his name is Mr. Kettle.

duncan_idaho
12-17-2012, 02:49 PM
For KC Connection - (or other Jays fans)

Do you think Toronto has any shot at keeping Josh Johnson after this season? They took on a lot of money in that deal with Miami, and if Johnson pitches to his potential, he could get near-Greinke money in FA.

Also, Toronto's rotation should be sick. Ricky Romero is a very talented guy who was viewed as a borderline staff ace entering last season... and he's now the No. 5 starter (or at least he is once Morrow gets back).

KC_Connection
12-17-2012, 02:55 PM
Dickey and Johnson are studs. The other 3 not scared.
This suggests to me that you didn't watch a lot of Brandon Morrow last year. He was just as good as either of those two (or really, pretty much everybody in baseball) when he was actually on the field in 2012.

mcaj22
12-17-2012, 03:00 PM
Orioles literally went back down to 4th or 5th place, especially with the refusal to upgrade or spend money, just thinking their team will get better by in house progression is absolutely stupid due to their division

KC_Connection
12-17-2012, 03:04 PM
For KC Connection - (or other Jays fans)

Do you think Toronto has any shot at keeping Josh Johnson after this season? They took on a lot of money in that deal with Miami, and if Johnson pitches to his potential, he could get near-Greinke money in FA.

Also, Toronto's rotation should be sick. Ricky Romero is a very talented guy who was viewed as a borderline staff ace entering last season... and he's now the No. 5 starter (or at least he is once Morrow gets back).
They're certainly capable of extending Johnson, Rogers has the money to make it happen (and after this series of moves, I believe that Anthopoulos can actually get them to spend it). I would even expect them to look into that before the season begins to see what his price is (or if he'd even be willing to do anything right now). After this move for Dickey, I don't think the Jays will have nearly the same urgency to do it, though.

I think this trade is fantastic, BTW. It legitimately creates one of the best rotations in the game (imagine if Romero bounces back to his 2011 form), makes the Jays one of the best teams in baseball over the next few seasons, and gives the Jays a realistic shot at the playoffs for the first time in 20 years.

ChiefsandO'sfan
12-17-2012, 03:05 PM
Orioles literally went back down to 4th or 5th place, especially with the refusal to upgrade or spend money, just thinking their team will get better by in house progression is absolutely stupid due to their division

Yanks- Stayed the same so far
Rays- Worse- Shields and Upton gone.
BlueJays- A lot better
Redsox- Signing old washed up players doesn't make them better.

KC_Connection
12-17-2012, 03:15 PM
What I found interesting was how the public perception of this deal was so different than the Shields one. On the face of them, they were really quite similar deals. I get that the Jays were closer to contention to the Royals before they made it, but the Royals play in a far easier division. The Royals really only need a few things to go right (and perhaps a few things to go wrong with the Tigers) to get contend for that.

MIAdragon
12-17-2012, 03:29 PM
Yanks- Stayed the same so far
Rays- Worse- Shields and Upton gone.
BlueJays- A lot better
Redsox- Signing old washed up players doesn't make them better.

Lolz, enjoy the cellar next season.

GoChargers
12-17-2012, 03:33 PM
Yanks- Stayed the same so far
Rays- Worse- Shields and Upton gone.
BlueJays- A lot better
Redsox- Signing old washed up players doesn't make them better.

You're kidding, right? The Rays got a lot better by jettisoning Shields and bringing in Myers.

You are right about the Red Sox though - they're idiots. They cleared out all those bad contracts last year in order to sign new bad contracts this year.

duncan_idaho
12-17-2012, 03:46 PM
What I found interesting was how the public perception of this deal was so different than the Shields one. On the face of them, they were really quite similar deals. I get that the Jays were closer to contention to the Royals before they made it, but the Royals play in a far easier division. The Royals really only need a few things to go right (and perhaps a few things to go wrong with the Tigers) to get contend for that.

I think it's mainly the difference between consensus minor league player of the year and a guy who is merely top 15.

It's weird, because I also think the secondary piece the Blue Jays gave up are better, though Snydergaard is farther from the majors than Odorizzi.

Mike Montgomery is still a buzzy name around baseball, but he's just as lost now as Jeremy Jeffries. Too many people remember the guy who was a top 20 player just a few years ago.

Snydergaard is the best of the second level guys included in either deal. Guess he balances out with the quantity surrendered by KC.

Rams Fan
12-17-2012, 04:10 PM
For KC Connection - (or other Jays fans)

Do you think Toronto has any shot at keeping Josh Johnson after this season? They took on a lot of money in that deal with Miami, and if Johnson pitches to his potential, he could get near-Greinke money in FA.

Also, Toronto's rotation should be sick. Ricky Romero is a very talented guy who was viewed as a borderline staff ace entering last season... and he's now the No. 5 starter (or at least he is once Morrow gets back).

Why wouldn't they have a shot at keeping Johnson? The Rogers ownership group is the richest in baseball. They can spend money if they want, they just really haven't done that a lot.

Rams Fan
12-17-2012, 04:14 PM
You're kidding, right? The Rays got a lot better by jettisoning Shields and bringing in Myers.

Short term they are worse. Long term, they should be even better than if they had kept Shields. It wouldn't be shocking to see Tampa to take a step back in 2013 but take a bigger step forward in 2014.


You are right about the Red Sox though - they're idiots. They cleared out all those bad contracts last year in order to sign new bad contracts this year.

The difference is the contracts they've given out are short term ones. The Drew contract could be a really nice one for this season. The only contract I'd say WTF to is the Gomes one, but even that isn't long term. They are essentially contracts for short term solutions to be competitive and not stink outright.

duncan_idaho
12-17-2012, 04:20 PM
Why wouldn't they have a shot at keeping Johnson? The Rogers ownership group is the richest in baseball. They can spend money if they want, they just really haven't done that a lot.

It's more of a "Will They" question than anything else.

The contracts of Buehrle and Reyes are not very friendly. Was wondering if that ownership group will go ahead and add a pitcher who probably will command 18-20 million/per on the open market.

Rams Fan
12-17-2012, 04:27 PM
It's more of a "Will They" question than anything else.

The contracts of Buehrle and Reyes are not very friendly. Was wondering if that ownership group will go ahead and add a pitcher who probably will command 18-20 million/per on the open market.

I would figure that they would considering it looks they're built for the next few seasons and just gave up a shit load of prospects in between the Dickey and Miami trades.

KC_Connection
12-17-2012, 04:37 PM
It's more of a "Will They" question than anything else.

The contracts of Buehrle and Reyes are not very friendly. Was wondering if that ownership group will go ahead and add a pitcher who probably will command 18-20 million/per on the open market.
If they're going to do it, I'd think they'll do something in the next few months rather than wait until next offseason (when he could presumably cost near what Greinke did if he has a good season). The Jays would likely be reluctant to give that type of huge contract out. The Jays extended Bautista in February a few years ago, not letting him even have the chance to become a FA and get a massive contract.

An interesting name that's set to be a FA next season, though, is Roy Halladay. If they can't extend JJ, perhaps they try to bring Doc back instead?

The Bad Guy
12-17-2012, 04:39 PM
As a Mets fan, I'm happy with the return.

Mets needed a future catcher in the worst way and the pitcher is supposed to be a high ceiling #2 type player.

It's a good haul for a 38 year old.

Prison Bitch
12-17-2012, 05:42 PM
The Jays trade gets better reviews because people think they're in a better position to win than the Royals are, given the trade with Florida last month.

KC_Connection
12-17-2012, 05:45 PM
As a Mets fan, I'm happy with the return.

Mets needed a future catcher in the worst way and the pitcher is supposed to be a high ceiling #2 type player.

It's a good haul for a 38 year old.
No question it's a great deal for the Mets. They weren't winning any time soon with Dickey. It's the perfect time for the Jays to make a move like this, though.

Rugby Thompson
12-17-2012, 06:13 PM
Not like the jays are gonna do anything, the fanbase here in toronto sucks.

KC_Connection
12-17-2012, 06:16 PM
Not like the jays are gonna do anything, the fanbase here in toronto sucks.
Actually, the fanbase in Toronto is a sleeping giant. If they win (which they haven't done in 20 years), there's no reason to think it couldn't be like it was 20 years ago when they were setting attendance records and spending huge money.

theelusiveeightrop
12-17-2012, 06:19 PM
The Blue Jays are spending a ton of money to finish in fourth place in the AL East.

Rugby Thompson
12-17-2012, 06:32 PM
Actually, the fanbase in Toronto is a sleeping giant. If they win (which they haven't done in 20 years), there's no reason to think it couldn't be like it was 20 years ago when they were setting attendance records and spending huge money.

I live here, I know how it is. We get attendance the home opener then every one hops off, no one is dedicated to this team because everyone is too focused on hockey.

Toronto is a horrible place to play pro sports

Rugby Thompson
12-17-2012, 06:38 PM
Actually, the fanbase in Toronto is a sleeping giant. If they win (which they haven't done in 20 years), there's no reason to think it couldn't be like it was 20 years ago when they were setting attendance records and spending huge money.

I live here, I know how it is. We get attendance the home opener then every one hops off, no one is dedicated to this team because everyone is too focused on hockey.

Toronto is a horrible place to play pro sports

The Bad Guy
12-17-2012, 07:03 PM
Toronto is absolutely without question the most talented team in that division.

duncan_idaho
12-17-2012, 07:04 PM
The Blue Jays are spending a ton of money to finish in fourth place in the AL East.

The Jays will likely be the prohibitive favorite to win the American League East this season.

Best pitching staff. Best offense.

MIAdragon
12-17-2012, 08:06 PM
Toronto is absolutely without question the most talented team in that division.

On paper without a doubt.

KC_Connection
12-17-2012, 08:59 PM
I live here, I know how it is. We get attendance the home opener then every one hops off, no one is dedicated to this team because everyone is too focused on hockey.

That's nice. I suspect I lived there longer than you have and have a better idea of the sleeping giant that is the Blue Jays fanbase than you (they get better television numbers than any organization in baseball despite not having a playoff team in 20 years).

KC_Connection
12-17-2012, 09:03 PM
The Jays will likely be the prohibitive favorite to win the American League East this season.

Best pitching staff. Best offense.
I agree. On paper, they're the best team now in the division. I probably wouldn't have said that before this deal (still NYY perhaps), but this pushes them over the top. I've been asking for these kind of moves and this kind of effort to win for over a decade now and it's finally happening.

Also Anthopoulos said this at the conference call tonight...sounds like it's his plan to extend him as I figured.

Mike Cormack @MikeCormack
#bluejays GM Anthopoulos: "Hopefully a guy like Josh Johnson can be part of (a multi-year run) that too going forward."

Shox
12-17-2012, 09:23 PM
Dickey just had his career year. He will never reproduce the year he had in 2012.

Prison Bitch
12-17-2012, 09:29 PM
Yankees are still better, but Toronto should win between 84-89 games if they stay healthy.

stonedstooge
12-17-2012, 09:30 PM
Wish the Royals would have got him. He would have been a nice fit

KC_Connection
12-17-2012, 09:42 PM
Dickey just had his career year. He will never reproduce the year he had in 2012.
I remember when people said that about Jose Bautista's 2010. And then 2011 happened.

duncan_idaho
12-17-2012, 09:44 PM
Yankees are still better, but Toronto should win between 84-89 games if they stay healthy.

I disagree. Blue Jays will win more games than that, and I'm not sure they're not better than New York.

Rotations:

1) Dickey vs. Sabathia (advantage - Yankees, but Dickey is hardly a one-year wonder)
2) Josh Johnson vs. Hiroki Kuroda (advantage Blue Jays)
3) Mark Buehrle vs. Andy Pettitte (They're the same guy at this point in Pettitte's career, but Buehrle is going to stay healthy - will Pettitte?)
4) Brandon Morrow vs. Phil Hughes (advantage Blue Jays, possibly significant)
5) Ricky Romero vs. Ivan Nova (advantage Yankees, but Romero bouncing back wouldn't be a surprise at all. He was excellent in 2011)

Advantage Blue Jays.

Lineup:
Reyes
Cabrera
Bautista
Encarnacion
Lind
Lawrie
Rasmus
Arencibia
Bonifacio

vs.
Jeter
Granderson
Cano
Teixeira
Youkilis
Alex Rodriguez
Cervelli
Brett Gardner
Ichiro (oops).

Advantage there, on paper, is Blue Jays.

KC_Connection
12-17-2012, 09:46 PM
The Yankees still don't have a catcher, but isn't Ichiro in their OF now?

And ARod isn't even going to play until July if he does at all, so I'm not sure I'd really count him right now.

duncan_idaho
12-17-2012, 09:47 PM
The Yankees still don't have a catcher, but isn't Ichiro in their OF now?

And ARod isn't even going to play until July if he does at all, so I'm not sure I'd really count him right now.

That's what I get for going off of MLB.com depth chart. Is Ichiro's deal finalized? I missed that.

KC_Connection
12-17-2012, 09:49 PM
That's what I get for going off of MLB.com depth chart. Is Ichiro's deal finalized? I missed that.
Not sure, but he's definitely been reported as signed. He's pretty suspect himself at this point in his career for a starting RF, but yeah, better than Dickerson.

bricks
12-17-2012, 10:38 PM
Dickey just had his career year. He will never reproduce the year he had in 2012.

Dude,

Step back and think about this for a second.

Look back at his last 3 years, the guy is a fine wine and seems to get better with age. His record is 39-28. The guy had averaged 200 innings pitched, gives up under 3 runs per game and led the league in strikeouts last year.

He may or may not have a season like last year but he seems like a guy that has "got it" late in his career. He's a late bloomer no question. He has perfected the knuckleball pitch and chances are that will prolong his career.

Most knuckleballers pitch well into their 40s anyway. Less velocity thrown behind that pitch which will also mean less stress, inflammation and wear and tear on the muscles, ligaments, tendons, joints in the arm. That's his pitch 70% of the time. He will pitch into his 40s and he really doesn't have to be a CY young candidate just pitch well and he will do that.

Prison Bitch
12-17-2012, 11:43 PM
I disagree. Blue Jays will win more games than that, and I'm not sure they're not better than New York.

Rotations:

1) Dickey vs. Sabathia (advantage - Yankees, but Dickey is hardly a one-year wonder)
2) Josh Johnson vs. Hiroki Kuroda (advantage Blue Jays)
3) Mark Buehrle vs. Andy Pettitte (They're the same guy at this point in Pettitte's career, but Buehrle is going to stay healthy - will Pettitte?)
4) Brandon Morrow vs. Phil Hughes (advantage Blue Jays, possibly significant)
5) Ricky Romero vs. Ivan Nova (advantage Yankees, but Romero bouncing back wouldn't be a surprise at all. He was excellent in 2011)

Advantage Blue Jays.

Lineup:
Reyes
Cabrera
Bautista
Encarnacion
Lind
Lawrie
Rasmus
Arencibia
Bonifacio

vs.
Jeter
Granderson
Cano
Teixeira
Youkilis
Alex Rodriguez
Cervelli
Brett Gardner
Ichiro (oops).

Advantage there, on paper, is Blue Jays.


I'll take the Yanks lineup any day. The rotations are pretty similar now. Let's see about the bullpens. The Blue Jays don't really have any great relievers, the Yanks always seem to. No doubt the gap is narrowed significantly but until the Yanks don't win 95 games, I'll assume they will continue to do so.

GoChargers
12-18-2012, 12:18 AM
Dickey just had his career year. He will never reproduce the year he had in 2012.

Except he's had three good years in a row and knuckleballers tend to pitch effectively well into their 40's.

KC_Connection
12-18-2012, 02:33 AM
I'll take the Yanks lineup any day. The rotations are pretty similar now. Let's see about the bullpens. The Blue Jays don't really have any great relievers, the Yanks always seem to. No doubt the gap is narrowed significantly but until the Yanks don't win 95 games, I'll assume they will continue to do so.
I might take the Yankees lineup (though it's close), but I'll take the Jays rotation for sure right now.

As for bullpens, the fact that Casey Janssen isn't well known in the States doesn't mean he isn't a great reliever. He's been fantastic for a while now. I hope Darren Oliver decides not to retire...if he comes back, the pen would be excellent.

mdchiefsfan
12-18-2012, 05:11 AM
As an Orioles fan, allow me to say:

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qSAKHLbCUGk?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

mcaj22
12-18-2012, 08:07 AM
who do the Orioles have to compete with these teams now

Chris Davis?

maybe Brian Roberts will play more than 10 games this year

hopefully one of these nobody pitchers they have might sniff a game against the Blue Jays 6th rotational man

DJ's left nut
12-18-2012, 10:04 AM
I'll take the Yanks lineup any day. The rotations are pretty similar now. Let's see about the bullpens. The Blue Jays don't really have any great relievers, the Yanks always seem to. No doubt the gap is narrowed significantly but until the Yanks don't win 95 games, I'll assume they will continue to do so.

Definitely Wickedson.

The Yankees are a bunch of dying old hounds. They'll be fortunate to win 90.

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-18-2012, 10:28 AM
Definitely Wickedson.

The Yankees are a bunch of dying old hounds. They'll be fortunate to win 90.

Heh, he outed himself the day he was mumbling about endowments.

DJ's left nut
12-18-2012, 11:10 AM
Heh, he outed himself the day he was mumbling about endowments.

And third tier revenue rights.

Y'know what? I think I'd prefer if it wasn't him. At that point you'd have an actual sample size of beaker idiots. What would be better than a single Wickedson? Two Wickedsons. A complete rebuttal to the Beakers assertion that they don't claim that jackass either and that he's just a random outlier to the standard Beaker.

Yeah, I'd definitely prefer that.

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-18-2012, 11:15 AM
That would be awesome

Rams Fan
12-18-2012, 12:19 PM
I'd flip-flop Johnson and Dickey in the 1/2 spot.

I think Dickey will still be good, but I think Johnson has the potential to be even better than Dickey on a consistent basis.

Dickey-Kuroda is a fair comparison. I think that due to their age(both are 38 I believe or late 30's) and have been consistent for the last few seasons, Kuroda moreso than Dickey.

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-18-2012, 05:07 PM
And third tier revenue rights.

Y'know what? I think I'd prefer if it wasn't him. At that point you'd have an actual sample size of beaker idiots. What would be better than a single Wickedson? Two Wickedsons. A complete rebuttal to the Beakers assertion that they don't claim that jackass either and that he's just a random outlier to the standard Beaker.

Yeah, I'd definitely prefer that.

DJ nut...you just might have your wish


Ah, so you're the infamous "wickedson" i've been reading about? Apparently I am your Sith apprentice. Or I am you, one of the two. I can't tell.



Anyway, the recruiting pitch should always be easy for bad teams: "If you can't play here, where can you?" That's what Weis tells people and it's true. I don't understand why some top notch players go to KU basketball when they won't play much (if at all). What is the point? Go to Nebraska or Tech and play a lot.

DJ's left nut
12-18-2012, 05:09 PM
DJ nut...you just might have your wish

Oh that is just glorious. So very glorious.

Either there are 2 of them, or 1 of them is talking to himself. Either way, it's just beautiful.

Own them, Beakers. They are clearly your own...

Zeke
12-18-2012, 05:16 PM
Oh that is just glorious. So very glorious.

Either there are 2 of them, or 1 of them is talking to himself. Either way, it's just beautiful.

Own them, Beakers. They are clearly your own...

:cuss:

DJ's left nut
12-18-2012, 05:19 PM
:cuss:

Tell me more about endowments, Zeke. I know this is a big deal among the Jayhawk faithful.