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ChiefMojo
12-17-2012, 05:04 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/21413784/monday-observations-looking-for-next-big-thing-when-it-comes-to-gms

Like Pro Football Weekly, now Jason La Canfora with CBS Sports is saying that the Polian's may be at the top of the Chiefs possible GM list. Polian's (Bill and Chris) are very hands on front office people and of course we know that is how Clark likes it to work (as he is very hands off).

Guru
12-17-2012, 05:09 PM
q

ChiefMojo
12-17-2012, 05:12 PM
Where is the other thread? Would be more than happy to delete this one if I know where the other is at?

ncCHIEFfan
12-17-2012, 05:13 PM
Guess it could be worse ( Pioli ) but nothing to really get excited about

ChiefMojo
12-17-2012, 05:16 PM
Well I don't really know how to feel about the Polian's to be honest. Sure Bill has had a lot of success through the years with three different franchises. He fits the style of front office man that Clark wants, which is why he is probably at the top of the list.

With that said, how would he run the defense? Would he try to make us small and fast like his Indy teams or somewhere in between? One would assume we would move away from the 3-4 to the 4-3 correct?

Dr. Facebook Fever
12-17-2012, 05:17 PM
Excuse my ignorance but which one are we talking about as GM? I know they both worked for Indy (ok I know Bill did as GM) but what was Chris' role? I guess I don't understand 2 guys being candidates in the same role but I'm obviously missing something.

htismaqe
12-17-2012, 05:18 PM
Excuse my ignorance but which one are we talking about as GM? I know they both worked for Indy (ok I know Bill did as GM) but what was Chris' role? I guess I don't understand 2 guys being candidates in the same role but I'm obviously missing something.

It's called nepotism.

Bill would be the GM and Chris would be the GM-in-waiting.

Crush
12-17-2012, 05:18 PM
Excuse my ignorance but which one are we talking about as GM? I know they both worked for Indy (ok I know Bill did as GM) but what was Chris' role? I guess I don't understand 2 guys being candidates in the same role but I'm obviously missing something.

Chris would be GM and Bill would be President of Peyton Manning.

Dr. Facebook Fever
12-17-2012, 05:19 PM
It's called nepotism.

Bill would be the GM and Chris would be the GM-in-waiting.

I see. That's the way it was in Indy if I'm not mistaken? What would Chris' actual title be?

Crush
12-17-2012, 05:19 PM
I do not like Polian at all. The Colts roster and scouting department went to shit when Chris was promoted to GM.

Crush
12-17-2012, 05:20 PM
I see. That's the way it was in Indy if I'm not mistaken? What would Chris' actual title be?

Probably Assistant GM or Executive Coffee Boy.

Shag
12-17-2012, 05:20 PM
Not a fan...

Dr. Facebook Fever
12-17-2012, 05:21 PM
Probably Assistant GM or Executive Coffee Boy.

Gotcha. Thanks.

ChiefMojo
12-17-2012, 05:24 PM
I admit I don't know how I feel about the Polian's yet. As other said, Chris hasn't proved to be the best at his job yet but he is still young. Bill did a lot of great things but he is old.

I just know they are better than Pioli!

O.city
12-17-2012, 05:27 PM
Everyone needs to go to the SOC thread and read Marty's post.

aturnis
12-17-2012, 06:19 PM
The next banner needs to say no to the Polians...

Tribal Warfare
12-17-2012, 06:21 PM
As I said in the SOC thread La Confora has zero credibility when has to do with anything concerning the Chiefs.

theelusiveeightrop
12-17-2012, 06:22 PM
Do not want.

Barret
12-17-2012, 08:06 PM
Wasn't there a thread about how Bill and Chris were actually worse then Pioli is currently and how the owner of the Colts had to basically fire both of them to wrestle his team back?

BossChief
12-17-2012, 08:12 PM
Polian would draft Geno Smith.

Hog Farmer
12-17-2012, 08:13 PM
Where is the other thread? Would be more than happy to delete this one if I know where the other is at?

Check chiefsplanet.com

ghak99
12-17-2012, 09:36 PM
I thought they run them out of Pony town for being egotistical pricks who couldn't draft for shit??

ChiefMojo
12-17-2012, 10:01 PM
Hog I swear I've heard of that site before?

cdcox
12-17-2012, 10:04 PM
What exactly are the Polians possessing that are being linked to KC?

J Diddy
12-17-2012, 10:08 PM
I thought they run them out of Pony town for being egotistical pricks who couldn't draft for shit??

Well hell. They'd fit right in.

J Diddy
12-17-2012, 10:09 PM
Well I don't really know how to feel about the Polian's to be honest. Sure Bill has had a lot of success through the years with three different franchises. He fits the style of front office man that Clark wants, which is why he is probably at the top of the list.

With that said, how would he run the defense? Would he try to make us small and fast like his Indy teams or somewhere in between? One would assume we would move away from the 3-4 to the 4-3 correct?

We're already small. Fast, meh, not so much

Chief Roundup
12-17-2012, 10:22 PM
Well hmmm this is making more and more sense. On MNF they said that Tom Moore was wanting to have a comeback at OC.

Shox
12-17-2012, 10:35 PM
Not sure I like this idea. What did he do other than ride Peyton Manning. He never could build a defense for him.

mcaj22
12-17-2012, 11:46 PM
Wasn't there a thread about how Bill and Chris were actually worse then Pioli is currently and how the owner of the Colts had to basically fire both of them to wrestle his team back?

yes and in one season the owner and new FO/coaches came in and cut 3/4s of the Polian players on the roster, essentially keeping one WR, two good DEs and maybe a young guy here or there that eventually got demoted to 2nd or 3rd string anywayby the new GM's players

GoChargers
12-18-2012, 12:16 AM
Polian is just a hyped-up AJ Smith. Bad choice for the Chiefs if true.

DaneMcCloud
12-18-2012, 12:18 AM
What exactly are the Polians possessing that are being linked to KC?

Bill was a Chiefs scout in the late 70's, worked with Marv, Steadman and Schaaf.

Personally, I think it's bullshit and hope that Clark is more "creative", but who knows.

At least Bill Polian values the QB position.

MotherfuckerJones
12-18-2012, 12:21 AM
Polian is just a hyped-up AJ Smith. Bad choice for the Chiefs if true.

Except Polian drafted possibly the greatest QB of all-time. And won a Super Bowl with Colts, got the Panthers close

Chocolate Hog
12-18-2012, 12:24 AM
Except Polian drafted possibly the greatest QB of all-time. And won a Super Bowl with Colts, got the Panthers close

And took the Bills to 3 super bowls

DaneMcCloud
12-18-2012, 12:37 AM
And took the Bills to 3 super bowls

Polian was fired after the 3rd.

He didn't "take" them, Jim Kelly did.

And he was drafted 3 years before Polian arrived.

KCWolfman
12-18-2012, 12:38 AM
Weird idea, how about a coach with more control instead of another control hungry GM? It doesn't seem to have worked well with the last two.

DaneMcCloud
12-18-2012, 12:42 AM
Weird idea, how about a coach with more control instead of another control hungry GM? It doesn't seem to have worked well with the last two.

Yeah, that makes total sense.

Give the head coach ALL the power and responsibility.

History has proven that always works out well.

Chocolate Hog
12-18-2012, 12:44 AM
Polian was fired after the 3rd.

He didn't "take" them, Jim Kelly did.

And he was drafted 3 years before Polian arrived.

He certainly played a huge part in building a team that went to 3 super bowls saying otherwise would be dishonest.

DaneMcCloud
12-18-2012, 12:55 AM
He certainly played a huge part in building a team that went to 3 super bowls saying otherwise would be dishonest.

Please explain.

Kelly was drafted in 1983 but didn't report until 1986.

Bruce Smith was chosen in 1985.

Polian's wasn't hired as GM until 1986. His tenure only lasted until 1993 and he left the team in shambles, much like his stint in Carolina and later, Indy.

Chocolate Hog
12-18-2012, 01:04 AM
Please explain.

Kelly was drafted in 1983 but didn't report until 1986.

Bruce Smith was chosen in 1985.

Polian's wasn't hired as GM until 1986. His tenure only lasted until 1993 and he left the team in shambles, much like his stint in Carolina and later, Indy.

I was too young to remember much of his years in Buffalo beside the last few. I know he drafted Thurman Thomas who played a huge part in Buffalos success. Didn't he hire Levy too?

Indy went to shit when his son took over. His drafts were usually pretty solid until about 2006.

He's not a long term answer but in the short term (3-4 years) he's one of the better choices. I just hope that if he does come here the head coach is able to get Chris Polian kicked out of here when Bill's time is over.

cdcox
12-18-2012, 01:26 AM
I was too young to remember much of his years in Buffalo beside the last few. I know he drafted Thurman Thomas who played a huge part in Buffalos success. Didn't he hire Levy too?

Indy went to shit when his son took over. His drafts were usually pretty solid until about 2006.

He's not a long term answer but in the short term (3-4 years) he's one of the better choices. I just hope that if he does come here the head coach is able to get Chris Polian kicked out of here when Bill's time is over.

Clark wants a long term solution. In light of that, and the bad rep that Chris has, here is how I see it, with odds:

a) Clark sticks to his plan and doesn't hire the Polians because of Chris (50%)
b) Clark likes Chris, hires them, Chris is a disaster like everyone thinks, and 8 years from now everyone is cursing this hire (35%)
c) Clark likes Chris, hires them, Chris turns the corner, and the Chiefs become a dynasty (5%)
c) Clark likes Bill, but is weary of Chris, hires them as a short term fix against his preference, and re-evaluates Chris when Bill is done. (10%)

J Diddy
12-18-2012, 01:32 AM
Polian was fired after the 3rd.

He didn't "take" them, Jim Kelly did.

And he was drafted 3 years before Polian arrived.

Dane. I love you, but that's a bullshit double standard.

Mi_chief_fan
12-18-2012, 06:07 AM
Yeah, that makes total sense.

Give the head coach ALL the power and responsibility.

History has proven that always works out well.

I may have missed something, but I didn't see where Russ said give "all" power and responsibility, but the opposite sure isn't working in KC.

Von Dumbass
12-18-2012, 06:18 AM
Well hmmm this is making more and more sense. On MNF they said that Tom Moore was wanting to have a comeback at OC.

If Mike McCoy leaves I wouldn't be surprised to see Tom Moore replace him. Tom Moore (and Bill Polian actually) both were guests of the Broncos in the game at Carolina. And Tom Moore spent a week at Broncos training camp this year.

MotherfuckerJones
12-18-2012, 06:35 AM
At least Polian has been there done that. Pioli didnt. KC was his first gig and we've seen he's a fraud.

BoneKrusher
12-18-2012, 06:48 AM
the way i see it, the Polian's have gotta be an upgrade over the last 4 years.

MotherfuckerJones
12-18-2012, 06:57 AM
Polian also knows to win you need a franchise QB and must draft one

BoneKrusher
12-18-2012, 07:19 AM
Polian also knows to win you need a franchise QB and must draft one

yeah exactly.
Peeoli has fielded a team w/o a QB for 4 years.

King_Chief_Fan
12-18-2012, 07:40 AM
We all know this can't be true. Pioli signed an extension and is ready to go to work.

BoneKrusher
12-18-2012, 07:48 AM
We all know this can't be true. Pioli signed an extension and is ready to go to work.

if True, Clark is dumber than i thought.

Guru
12-18-2012, 07:50 AM
As I said in the SOC thread La Confora has zero credibility when has to do with anything concerning the Chiefs.

Q :D

Chief Faithful
12-18-2012, 07:57 AM
Bill was a Chiefs scout in the late 70's, worked with Marv, Steadman and Schaaf.


Wow, that represents the worst drafting period in Chiefs history.

suds79
12-18-2012, 08:24 AM
if True, Clark is dumber than i thought.

It's not true. No way.

I'm convinced that Scott Pioli is currently not in charge. Otherwise he would have never, never have cut Stanford Routt.

BoneKrusher
12-18-2012, 08:27 AM
It's not true. No way.

I'm convinced that Scott Pioli is currently not in charge. Otherwise he would have never, never have cut Stanford Routt.

i'm thinking the same way.
he must have had all life drained from his fat ass when Cassel was benched.:D

loochy
12-18-2012, 08:28 AM
Another person linking Polian's to KC

Polian's what is linked to KC? It doesn't say.


Like Pro Football Weekly, now Jason La Canfora with CBS Sports is saying that the Polian's may be at the top of the Chiefs possible GM list.

Once again, the Polian's what is at the top of the list?

Polian's (Bill and Chris) are very hands on front office people and of course we know that is how Clark likes it to work (as he is very hands off).

Polian's whats are very hands on?

:doh!:

patteeu
12-18-2012, 08:30 AM
The next banner needs to say no to the Polians...

:facepalm:

suds79
12-18-2012, 08:32 AM
The next banner needs to say no to the Polians...

Because what he did in Indy, Buffalo & Carolina was total sh!t. :shake:

Pasta Giant Meatball
12-18-2012, 08:33 AM
yeah exactly.
Peeoli has fielded a team w/o a QB for 4 years.

So have the Jets :D

BoneKrusher
12-18-2012, 08:35 AM
So have the Jets :D

and look where both teams sit today.

Mr. Laz
12-18-2012, 08:36 AM
at this point, isn't it becoming rather 'circular'


reports start using other reports as sources etc


good news is that Polian didn't leave the colts completely devoid of talent as much as people thought

BoneKrusher
12-18-2012, 08:38 AM
at this point, isn't it becoming rather 'circular'


reports start using other reports as sources etc


good news is that Polian didn't leave the colts completely devoid of talent as much as people thought

exactly, they'll make the playoffs with a rookie QB and an assistant coach as HC.

MotherfuckerJones
12-18-2012, 09:03 AM
The difference in polian acting like a control freak is he's earned it pioli hasn't and sucks at GM to boot. Every where polians been they've won

BoneKrusher
12-18-2012, 09:14 AM
The difference in polian acting like a control freak is he's earned it pioli hasn't and sucks at GM to boot. Every where polians been they've won

yep

Dayze
12-18-2012, 09:18 AM
I can't believe how horrible Pioli has been. I was stoked about the hire, but man....he has been absolute dog shit.
Aside from re-signing some of Carl's players, he's done absloutely jack shit.

Berry - who is still progressing

.....I can't think of any other good thing he's done. Hudson? Houston looks like it'll pan out.
that's a shitty percentage of 'hits' in 4 god damn years.

MotherfuckerJones
12-18-2012, 09:20 AM
I can't believe how horrible Pioli has been. I was stoked about the hire, but man....he has been absolute dog shit.
Aside from re-signing some of Carl's players, he's done absloutely jack shit.

Berry - who is still progressing

.....I can't think of any other good thing he's done. Hudson? Houston looks like it'll pan out.
that's a shitty percentage of 'hits' in 4 god damn years.

Just about everyone did man I'm disappointed. Now it's time to try again and keep trying.

MotherfuckerJones
12-18-2012, 09:21 AM
I can't believe how horrible Pioli has been. I was stoked about the hire, but man....he has been absolute dog shit.
Aside from re-signing some of Carl's players, he's done absloutely jack shit.

Berry - who is still progressing

.....I can't think of any other good thing he's done. Hudson? Houston looks like it'll pan out.
that's a shitty percentage of 'hits' in 4 god damn years.

What's even worse, is that he's doing all the thinking he doesn't have anyone challenging his opinions

WhiteWhale
12-18-2012, 09:22 AM
Bill Polian is a great GM. I'd love to have a guy that solid.

I'm not convinced that hiring him (which really means hiring his son) is a good call. Nepotism and Cronyism are things I"m tired of in KC, and once Bill rides off into the sunset, what is Chris gonna do?

BoneKrusher
12-18-2012, 09:24 AM
I can't believe how horrible Pioli has been. I was stoked about the hire, but man....he has been absolute dog shit.
Aside from re-signing some of Carl's players, he's done absloutely jack shit.

Berry - who is still progressing

.....I can't think of any other good thing he's done. Hudson? Houston looks like it'll pan out.
that's a shitty percentage of 'hits' in 4 god damn years.

i was stoked at the time as well and a friend of mine (a Steeler Fan) said the week he was signed you gotta remember the Patriot way is Tom Brady not Scott Peeoli.

and he was spot on.

BoneKrusher
12-18-2012, 09:25 AM
Bill Polian is a great GM. I'd love to have a guy that solid.

I'm not convinced that hiring him (which really means hiring his son) is a good call. Nepotism and Cronyism are things I"m tired of in KC, and once Bill rides off into the sunset, what is Chris gonna do?

they left the Colts in good shape so i'd trust them.

King_Chief_Fan
12-18-2012, 09:31 AM
Polian's what is linked to KC? It doesn't say.



Once again, the Polian's what is at the top of the list?



Polian's whats are very hands on?

:doh!:

you punctuation police are hard nosed today

RUSH
12-18-2012, 09:40 AM
they left the Colts in good shape so i'd trust them.

Why are people saying this? He did not leave them in good shape. Grigson had to turn over most of the roster because it was so terrible.

Grigson nailed the draft and free agency this year and that's the only reason they are competitive. Luck, Hilton, Fleener, Allen, and Ballard are all key contributors and a huge part of their success. Avery, Davis, Redding and Brazill were also picked up by Grigson.

The only impact players that Polian left behind were Bethea, Mathis, and Wayne. That's it. Freeney sucks now. The o line is terrible and the defense is a joke.

Brock
12-18-2012, 09:45 AM
Why are people saying this? He did not leave them in good shape. Grigson had to turn over most of the roster because it was so terrible.

Grigson nailed the draft and free agency this year and that's the only reason they are competitive. Luck, Hilton, Fleener, Allen, and Ballard are all key contributors and a huge part of their success. Avery, Davis, Redding and Brazill were also picked up by Grigson.

The only impact players that Polian left behind were Bethea, Mathis, and Wayne. That's it. Freeney sucks now. The o line is terrible and the defense is a joke.

I am tending to agree with this. Of course, on the other hand, if Polian was still in Indianapolis, and Peyton weren't traded, they'd most likely still be headed to the playoffs again.

Chief Roundup
12-18-2012, 10:00 AM
they left the Colts in good shape so i'd trust them.

never go full retard.

htismaqe
12-18-2012, 10:01 AM
Why are people saying this? He did not leave them in good shape. Grigson had to turn over most of the roster because it was so terrible.

Grigson nailed the draft and free agency this year and that's the only reason they are competitive. Luck, Hilton, Fleener, Allen, and Ballard are all key contributors and a huge part of their success. Avery, Davis, Redding and Brazill were also picked up by Grigson.

The only impact players that Polian left behind were Bethea, Mathis, and Wayne. That's it. Freeney sucks now. The o line is terrible and the defense is a joke.

Their offensive line has been bad for a while. Manning masked a lot of problems.

loochy
12-18-2012, 10:06 AM
you punctuation police are hard nosed today

It's for your own protection.

KCWolfman
12-18-2012, 10:11 AM
Yeah, that makes total sense.

Give the head coach ALL the power and responsibility.

History has proven that always works out well.

If we are talking history, how has the power mad GM worked out for us for twenty years now?

I never stated ALL, I stated MORE.

KCWolfman
12-18-2012, 10:13 AM
I may have missed something, but I didn't see where Russ said give "all" power and responsibility, but the opposite sure isn't working in KC.

Precisely, MI.

Chief Roundup
12-18-2012, 10:15 AM
Their offensive line has been bad for a while. Manning masked a lot of problems.

Very true that an elite QB will help in hide issues that a team has. They have to though. You have to expect that out of them when you are paying them 18 to 19 mil a year. Same with an elite pass rusher or LT. The proportion of the dollars says that those players will have to hide/mask players or positions that are not very good.

Mr. Laz
12-18-2012, 10:17 AM
Part of the Indy problem was Manning's salary killed their cap.

But they had to keep Manning so the Oline etc suffered.

KCWolfman
12-18-2012, 10:18 AM
Just imagine a Jerry Reese style GM who takes a middle of the pack payroll to the Superbowl without having to force his name to the front page while having a Bill Cowher style coach with some shared control of the front office.

htismaqe
12-18-2012, 10:21 AM
Just imagine a Jerry Reese style GM who takes a middle of the pack payroll to the Superbowl without having to force his name to the front page while having a Bill Cowher style coach with some shared control of the front office.

This.

Chief Roundup
12-18-2012, 10:26 AM
Part of the Indy problem was Manning's salary killed their cap.

But they had to keep Manning so the Oline etc suffered.

Same with Brady. Brees contract will do the same to the Saints.

whoman69
12-18-2012, 01:15 PM
I have to believe Polian would actually be grooming his son to take over the job. No thanks to the real GM being his son.

mcaj22
12-18-2012, 01:32 PM
crazy to think that there is one more step backwards/lower than Pioli and that step is the bumbling idiot of Chris Polian.

hard to think things could get worse, but he is certainly the reason they would lol

scho63
12-18-2012, 01:53 PM
Well I don't really know how to feel about the Polian's to be honest. Sure Bill has had a lot of success through the years with three different franchises. He fits the style of front office man that Clark wants, which is why he is probably at the top of the list.

With that said, how would he run the defense? Would he try to make us small and fast like his Indy teams or somewhere in between? One would assume we would move away from the 3-4 to the 4-3 correct?

So a guy has had a lot of success with three different franchises and you question whether or not you want him? Please tell me this is a joke?

Would you prefer a guy who sucks at three different franchises like Brian Daboll? :hmmm:

I would take him in a NY minute or Marc Ross from the Giants

Brock
12-18-2012, 01:54 PM
So a guy has had a lot of success with three different franchises and you question whether or not you want him? Please tell me this is a joke?

Are you really getting him, or are you getting his kid with training wheels?

Mi_chief_fan
12-18-2012, 01:58 PM
Just imagine a Jerry Reese style GM who takes a middle of the pack payroll to the Superbowl without having to force his name to the front page while having a Bill Cowher style coach with some shared control of the front office.

Perfect.

htismaqe
12-18-2012, 01:59 PM
Are you really getting him, or are you getting his kid with training wheels?

This is really THE argument.

He drafted Kerry Collins in Carolina, who had 40K passing yards, a Super Bowl appearance, and was BY FAR the best QB in that draft class not named Steve McNair. In fact, if you look at the 1995 1st round, Collins really was a great pick regardless of position.

He decided to take Manning over Leaf (and despite the revisionist history, there really WAS a tough decision that had to be made).

In the end though, his tenure in Indianapolis became about setting Chris up. One has to wonder if Polian has any competitive fire left or if his concern is solely about his legacy.

I'm not really fond of the idea myself.

mcaj22
12-18-2012, 02:37 PM
seriously, the owner of the Colts had to take his team back because ole Bill took a backset and let his kid become more hands on, and that was a ****ing disaster and cluster ****.

the fact that he could rope another franchise gullable enough to let him do it again is no different than teams giving all these Pats Tree idiots 2nd, 3rd and 4th chances to coach

nychief
12-18-2012, 04:47 PM
Would it change your mind if he brought Dungy back?

DenverDanChiefsFan
12-18-2012, 05:04 PM
Anyone hear the interview on 610 this morning with the sports talk dude from Indy? Said that Isray "allegedly" had some legal troubles and the NFL forced him to hire someone to take complete control of the team for a set period of time. That is why Polian was hired. Once that time frame was up, he fired Polian because he was such an ass and all of the employees were miserable.

Sounds a lot like Peeholi.

KCUnited
12-18-2012, 05:16 PM
Anyone hear the interview on 610 this morning with the sports talk dude from Indy? Said that Isray "allegedly" had some legal troubles and the NFL forced him to hire someone to take complete control of the team for a set period of time. That is why Polian was hired. Once that time frame was up, he fired Polian because he was such an ass and all of the employees were miserable.

Sounds a lot like Peeholi.

I heard it. Kind of a mixed interview, the guy crushes Polian then says he'd be a good hire for KC and would take them to the playoffs on a consistent basis.

Things from the interview that seemed like red flags:

- Chris went from GM in waiting in Indy to road scout for ATL
- Polian's team construction philosophy was to spend the bulk of the cap on a select few and then surround them with late rounders on the cheap that no one else in the league would pick up after they were eventually cut.
- Nobody in the organization liked working for the guy.

nychief
12-18-2012, 05:19 PM
all this hand wringing over people not liking their boss... who gives a shit. Win.

the Talking Can
12-18-2012, 05:20 PM
i don't see how clark can go from one gigantic asshole to another...the culture at arrowhead is broken, as is the relationship with its fans..

polian not only doesn't fix those, he likely makes them worse

htismaqe
12-18-2012, 05:23 PM
Would it change your mind if he brought Dungy back?

NO.

Dungy - Manning = Herm.

No fucking way.

htismaqe
12-18-2012, 05:23 PM
i don't see how clark can go from one gigantic asshole to another...the culture at arrowhead is broken, as is the relationship with its fans..

polian not only doesn't fix those, he likely makes them worse

Yep.

nychief
12-18-2012, 05:26 PM
the only rhetorical "culture" we should worry about is the "culture of losing." Winning cures all ills.

GoChargers
12-18-2012, 05:28 PM
NO.

Dungy - Manning = Herm.

No ****ing way.

That's a bit of an overreaction. He did a good job in Tampa with crap at the quarterback position.

htismaqe
12-18-2012, 05:31 PM
That's a bit of an overreaction. He did a good job in Tampa with crap at the quarterback position.

After everything we've been through the last 20 years, it's absolutely warranted.

Chief Roundup
12-18-2012, 05:39 PM
all this hand wringing over people not liking their boss... who gives a shit. Win.
I do take all of this, "I hate working for Pioli, Polian they are assholes" with a grain of salt.
I would imagine that if you polled people about whether or not they like thier boss the numbers would show that a large majority of people don't like thier boss.
Don't misunderstand I do think that these guys are probably a little over the top at times.

i don't see how clark can go from one gigantic asshole to another...the culture at arrowhead is broken, as is the relationship with its fans..

polian not only doesn't fix those, he likely makes them worse

It depends on one thing, winning. If we win it is the cure all. If we don't win it won't matter who the GM is or is not.

Chief Roundup
12-18-2012, 05:40 PM
NO.

Dungy - Manning = Herm.

No ****ing way.

Just playing around here.

Dungy + Geno Smith =??????

The Bad Guy
12-18-2012, 05:42 PM
That's a bit of an overreaction. He did a good job in Tampa with crap at the quarterback position.

He had an epic amount of defensive talent to rely on.

Dungy fucking sucks.

O.city
12-18-2012, 05:54 PM
One thing I've realized while going thru who all has a chance to be here, is that every single guy has had a flaw or has a negative thing I don't like.


So whoever we get at both spots will have some flaws.

nychief
12-18-2012, 06:23 PM
Dungy ****ing sucks.

That is just a fucking stupid thing to say.

Sorter
12-18-2012, 06:25 PM
Just playing around here.

Dungy + Geno Smith =??????

Eh. I like Dungy but it would take a full 2-4 years of drafting to get a top tier tampa 2 IMO.

Chief Roundup
12-18-2012, 06:28 PM
Eh. I like Dungy but it would take a full 2-4 years of drafting to get a top tier tampa 2 IMO.

I don't want Dungy, nor do I think he wants to come out of retirement. I think Dungy is very much like Marty.
I think the Tampa 2 is a thing of the past as well. Don't want that type of defensive system.

htismaqe
12-18-2012, 06:29 PM
Tony Dungy is overrated.

Sorter
12-18-2012, 06:30 PM
Both Chief Roundup and htismage are correct IMO.

-King-
12-18-2012, 06:35 PM
He had an epic amount of defensive talent to rely on.

Dungy fucking sucks.

Talent that he drafted and developed. We can't blame him for getting good players and getting great production out of them.

BigMeatballDave
12-18-2012, 06:39 PM
Tony Dungy is overrated.

This

DaneMcCloud
12-18-2012, 06:41 PM
Talent that he drafted and developed. We can't blame him for getting good players and getting great production out of them.

Rich McKay drafted that talent from 1993 to 2003. During that time, Dungy and his staff failed to develop a QB, whether it was Trent Dilfer, Shaun King, etc. and so on.

Also, it's not difficult to "develop" guys like Derrick Brooks, Ronde Barber, John Lynch, Warren Sapp, Warrick Dunn and Mike Alstott, so don't pretend there was some big learning curve that only Dungy could help them master.

htismaqe
12-18-2012, 06:44 PM
Rich McKay drafted that talent from 1993 to 2003. During that time, Dungy and his staff failed to develop a QB, whether it was Trent Dilfer, Shaun King, etc. and so on.

Also, it's not difficult to "develop" guys like Derrick Brooks, Ronde Barber, John Lynch, Warren Sapp, Warrick Dunn and Mike Alstott, so don't pretend there was some big learning curve that only Dungy could help them master.

This.

Jon Gruden instantly came there and convincingly won a Super Bowl against the team he fucking built.

Dayze
12-18-2012, 07:42 PM
Tony Dungy is overrated.

that.

and he needs to eat a sammich.

nychief
12-18-2012, 10:26 PM
Rich McKay drafted that talent from 1993 to 2003. During that time, Dungy and his staff failed to develop a QB, whether it was Trent Dilfer, Shaun King, etc. and so on.

Also, it's not difficult to "develop" guys like Derrick Brooks, Ronde Barber, John Lynch, Warren Sapp, Warrick Dunn and Mike Alstott, so don't pretend there was some big learning curve that only Dungy could help them master.

Could it be...follow me here... That Dungy had a hand in developing these players? That perhaps, they didn't come in to the league fully realized NFL stars?

It's curious that there is a circle jerk for Cowher, who was on the same staff as Dungy with the chiefs, but less of a groundswell of support.

DaneMcCloud
12-18-2012, 10:43 PM
Could it be...follow me here... That Dungy had a hand in developing these players? That perhaps, they didn't come in to the league fully realized NFL stars?


LMAO LMAO LMAOLMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

DeezNutz
12-18-2012, 10:44 PM
Tony Dungy is overrated.

The fuck? There are people who don't believe he's dumb as fuck?

nychief
12-18-2012, 11:00 PM
LMAO LMAO LMAOLMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO


Sorry, I don't speak emoticon...you don't think Dungy had anything to do with the development of the defensive players of the bucs?

DaneMcCloud
12-18-2012, 11:01 PM
Sorry, I don't speak emoticon...you don't think Dungy had anything to do with the development of the defensive players of the bucs?

No, you fucking idiot.

If so, where was the "development" in Indy? Where was the fucking badass defense?

You're fucking stupid. You've always been fucking stupid and apparently, you will always be fucking stupid.

Moron.

Count Alex's Losses
12-18-2012, 11:09 PM
It's curious that there is a circle jerk for Cowher, who was on the same staff as Dungy with the chiefs, but less of a groundswell of support.

Racism rules!

O.city
12-18-2012, 11:09 PM
Dungy had how long with possibly the greatest QB of all time and won 1 SB?

nychief
12-18-2012, 11:16 PM
No, you ****ing idiot.

If so, where was the "development" in Indy? Where was the ****ing badass defense?

You're ****ing stupid. You've always been ****ing stupid and apparently, you will always be ****ing stupid.

Moron.


Okay, kiddo. Use your words, like a big boy. Claiming that Dungy had no hand in developing players over his years with two championship (or contending) franchises is myopic... or worse, just plain ignorant. McKay was the brains behind the operation? Fine.. he was a good GM... but he was ousted in ATL after building a team built around Vick... with not much else around him.

nychief
12-18-2012, 11:17 PM
Racism rules!

Why is Cowher power a better coach than Tony Dungy?

Count Alex's Losses
12-18-2012, 11:18 PM
Why is Cowher power a better coach than Tony Dungy?

He's not.

They're basically the same dude.

nychief
12-18-2012, 11:21 PM
Dungy had how long with possibly the greatest QB of all time and won 1 SB?


Years, like Don Shula...or like Don Coryell, Dan Reeves... come on. The hate is a little stupid.

nychief
12-18-2012, 11:21 PM
He's not.

They're basically the same dude.

Thank you. That is all I was saying...

DaneMcCloud
12-18-2012, 11:30 PM
Okay, kiddo. Use your words, like a big boy. Claiming that Dungy had no hand in developing players over his years with two championship (or contending) franchises is myopic... or worse, just plain ignorant. McKay was the brains behind the operation? Fine.. he was a good GM... but he was ousted in ATL after building a team built around Vick... with not much else around him.

Go fuck yourself.

You're not even worth debating.

nychief
12-18-2012, 11:40 PM
Go **** yourself.

You're not even worth debating.


Its amazing you're actually more articulate with emoticons...

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2012, 01:32 AM
How does Tony Dungy suck? 1 losing season in 13.

patteeu
12-19-2012, 06:35 AM
How does Tony Dungy suck? 1 losing season in 13.

Haven't you heard? Every coach who has won a Super Bowl sucks because over an extremely small sample size no coach has ever won it all with two different teams. /sarcasm

Rausch
12-19-2012, 06:40 AM
Weird idea, how about a coach with more control instead of another control hungry GM? It doesn't seem to have worked well with the last two.

I like this idea but right now there are few out there without big question marks...

ncCHIEFfan
12-19-2012, 06:44 AM
Its amazing you're actually more articulate with emoticons...

:LOL:

Now that was funny!

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 07:35 AM
Could it be...follow me here... That Dungy had a hand in developing these players? That perhaps, they didn't come in to the league fully realized NFL stars?

It's curious that there is a circle jerk for Cowher, who was on the same staff as Dungy with the chiefs, but less of a groundswell of support.

I don't want Cowher either. Overrated.

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 07:37 AM
Haven't you heard? Every coach who has won a Super Bowl sucks because over an extremely small sample size no coach has ever won it all with two different teams. /sarcasm

I NEVER said Tony Dungy SUCKS.

I said he's OVERRATED.

And it doesn't have anything to do with him winning a Super Bowl (although that's a COMPLETELY VALID AND RELEVANT STATISTIC).

It's that he's basically a clone of Marty fucking Schottenheimer.

Been there, done that. Don't want to do it again. No fucking thanks.

Brainiac
12-19-2012, 08:56 AM
I NEVER said Tony Dungy SUCKS.

I said he's OVERRATED.

And it doesn't have anything to do with him winning a Super Bowl (although that's a COMPLETELY VALID AND RELEVANT STATISTIC).

It's that he's basically a clone of Marty ****ing Schottenheimer.

Been there, done that. Don't want to do it again. No ****ing thanks.

Yes, because Schottenheimer was such a horrible coach. :spock:

I don't want a clone of Schottenheimer either. I want the real thing.

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 09:00 AM
Yes, because Schottenheimer was such a horrible coach. :spock:

I don't want a clone of Schottenheimer either. I want the real thing.

I didn't say he's a horrible coach.

We did a DECADE of Schottenheimer and have SHIT to show for it.

That ship sailed 15 years ago. Hopefully Tony Dungy was on it.

Rausch
12-19-2012, 09:05 AM
I didn't say he's a horrible coach.

We did a DECADE of Schottenheimer and have SHIT to show for it.

That ship sailed 15 years ago. Hopefully Tony Dungy was on it.

With Denny Green and Norv pulling up anchor...

patteeu
12-19-2012, 09:05 AM
And it doesn't have anything to do with him winning a Super Bowl (although that's a COMPLETELY VALID AND RELEVANT STATISTIC).

Completely valid like the pre-2008 statistic that indicated that no black man could ever be elected President because it had never happened? We have an extremely small sample size of SB Champion coaches moving on to different teams and it's hard for any coach to win a SB in the first place.

There are only 18 SB Champion coaches in the first place (out of hundreds of coaches who have tried) and only 9 of those moved on to coach a second team.

Rausch
12-19-2012, 09:07 AM
It's that he's basically a clone of Marty ****ing Schottenheimer.

Only SOFTER...

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 09:17 AM
Completely valid like the pre-2008 statistic that indicated that no black man could ever be elected President because it had never happened?

And even then, Hillary was the front runner all the way until almost the end.

Believing that it CAN happen and believing that it WILL happen are two different things.

Possibility <> probability

I'm not interested in completely ignoring history.

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2012, 10:01 AM
Dungy who's won playoff games and a superbowl is Marty and Cowher who's 59 games over .500 in his head coaching career is overrated?


..... wow

dirk digler
12-19-2012, 10:08 AM
How does Tony Dungy suck? 1 losing season in 13.

I don't get that either. He turned around 1 inept team and with the help of Peyton made the Colts SB contenders every year. Yeah he is conservative as fuck and the Tampa 2 D is dead but he is still a very good coach.

GoChargers
12-19-2012, 10:09 AM
Dungy who's won playoff games and a superbowl is Marty and Cowher who's 59 games over .500 in his head coaching career is overrated?


..... wow

Seriously. I would take either of those guys in a landslide over Norv, and if I were a Chiefs fan, I'd be celebrating if they replaced Crennell with Dungy or Cowher.

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 10:11 AM
Dungy who's won playoff games and a superbowl is Marty and Cowher who's 59 games over .500 in his head coaching career is overrated?


..... wow

Dungy won a Super Bowl because of Peyton Manning.

Cowher won a Super Bowl because of Ben Roethlisberger.

Marty won a Super Bowl...oh wait, nevermind.

DO WE WANT TO WIN REGULAR SEASON GAMES OR DO WE WANT TO WIN A GODDAMN FUCKING SUPER BOWL?!?!?!?!?!

something cooler
12-19-2012, 10:11 AM
Eh... Dungy? Eew. Cowher though, yeah.

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 10:12 AM
Yeah he is conservative as **** and the Tampa 2 D is dead but he is still a very good coach.

ROFL

That's like a living contradiction.

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2012, 10:17 AM
Dungy won a Super Bowl because of Peyton Manning.

Cowher won a Super Bowl because of Ben Roethlisberger.

Marty won a Super Bowl...oh wait, nevermind.

DO WE WANT TO WIN REGULAR SEASON GAMES OR DO WE WANT TO WIN A GODDAMN FUCKING SUPER BOWL?!?!?!?!?!

Shannahan won super bowls because of elway, coughlin because of manning, belicheck Brady. You can make that argument with any coach. BTW big Ben was shit in that super bowl game so to say they won it all because of him isn't exactly correct.

Yes I want to win a super bowl but you have to have a guy who can get you there. Cowher can.

Rausch
12-19-2012, 10:19 AM
Cowher won a Super Bowl because of Ben Roethlisberger.

As a horrible 2nd year player.

That's bush league...

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 10:20 AM
Shannahan won super bowls because of elway, coughlin because of manning, belicheck Brady. You can make that argument with any coach. BTW big Ben was shit in that super bowl game so to say they won it all because of him isn't exactly correct.

Yes I want to win a super bowl but you have to have a guy who can get you there. Cowher can.

Dungy can't. And that was the original point.

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 10:20 AM
As a horrible 2nd year player.

That's bush league...

He doesn't win a Super Bowl without Big Ben.

But as Billay said, at least Cowher could GET THERE. Dungy couldn't even do that.

Rausch
12-19-2012, 10:22 AM
He doesn't win a Super Bowl without Big Ben.

But as Billay said, at least Cowher could GET THERE. Dungy couldn't even do that.

Cowher went to 4 AFCC games.

He more than got there.

Cowher/Pitt became a lesser version of the Bills...

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 10:22 AM
John Fox is a good coach. Dick Vermeil is a good coach. Dan Reeves is a good coach.

As much as it pains me to say it, Bill Cowher is a good coach.

All of those guys built teams that could make it all the way to the Super Bowl without a franchise QB. Once they found their franchise QB, they won it all.

Tony Dungy is not one of them and doesn't belong in that discussion.

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2012, 10:23 AM
Dungy can't. And that was the original point.

Ehh that im not sure of. I know he could get more out of the players than Romeo (that's not saying much). One of these Qb's pans out sure why cant this team contend for a title?

With that said I'm not really interested in watching the Tampa 2 or the 4-3 defense ever again.

DaneMcCloud
12-19-2012, 10:26 AM
Shannahan won super bowls because of elway, coughlin because of manning, belicheck Brady. You can make that argument with any coach. BTW big Ben was shit in that super bowl game so to say they won it all because of him isn't exactly correct.

Yes I want to win a super bowl but you have to have a guy who can get you there. Cowher can.

The problem is that Dungy's teams always under performed.

Those Tampa teams were loaded defensively and had good skill players on offense but the offenses and QB's were not successful. What Dilfer accomplished in Baltimore should have happened in Tampa or at least should have been in Super Bowls.

In Indy, Dungy had Edgerrin James, Manning, Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison, but his teams struggled in the playoffs and were weak defensively, which is supposedly Dungy's area of expertise.

The reality is the he never "coached up" his teams or got them over the hump. His teams improved because of personnel improvements, not through scheme or coaching.

dirk digler
12-19-2012, 10:26 AM
ROFL

That's like a living contradiction.

Dungy is a smart coach I would think he would come up with something different on D

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2012, 10:32 AM
The problem is that Dungy's teams always under performed.

Those Tampa teams were loaded defensively and had good skill players on offense but the offenses and QB's were not successful. What Dilfer accomplished in Baltimore should have happened in Tampa or at least should have been in Super Bowls.

In Indy, Dungy had Edgerrin James, Manning, Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison, but his teams struggled in the playoffs and were weak defensively, which is supposedly Dungy's area of expertise.

The reality is the he never "coached up" his teams or got them over the hump. His teams improved because of personnel improvements, not through scheme or coaching.

We'll get to see how much of that was Dungy and how much of that was Manning. Remember the huge knock on Manning was he could never win the big game.

Brainiac
12-19-2012, 10:38 AM
Dungy won a Super Bowl because of Peyton Manning.

Cowher won a Super Bowl because of Ben Roethlisberger.

Marty won a Super Bowl...oh wait, nevermind.

DO WE WANT TO WIN REGULAR SEASON GAMES OR DO WE WANT TO WIN A GODDAMN ****ING SUPER BOWL?!?!?!?!?!
If Marty had either of those guys he'd have won multiple Super Bowls.

Except for one solid season from Joe Montana where they went to the AFC championship game, Marty has never had quarterbacks like Roethlisberger and Manning. Instead, Marty had guys like Kosar and DeBerg and Bono and Grbac and Phyllis Rivers.

O.city
12-19-2012, 10:45 AM
I'm not real interested in hiring a guy, hoping that he "changes" from what he used to do. You bring a guy in because you like what he does and you want him to do that here.

The first is how you end up with Romeo or some bullshit. In my experience, guys in those positions don't tend to change.

nychief
12-19-2012, 10:45 AM
food for thought:

“@CoachCox8100: @TonyDungy who should chiefs take with first or 2nd pick in the draft?” I would take Georgia QB Aaron Murray if he comes out

patteeu
12-19-2012, 11:03 AM
And even then, Hillary was the front runner all the way until almost the end.

Believing that it CAN happen and believing that it WILL happen are two different things.

Possibility <> probability

I'm not interested in completely ignoring history.

You'd probably be better off ignoring history than misreading it and overreacting to it.

patteeu
12-19-2012, 11:07 AM
Seriously. I would take either of those guys in a landslide over Norv, and if I were a Chiefs fan, I'd be celebrating if they replaced Crennell with Dungy or Cowher.

Norv has never won a Super Bowl so he still has potential. Dungy and Cowher became all used up the minute they left their Super Bowl teams (although if they'd have hung on with those teams they would have continued to have potential and may well have eventually repeated because we have examples of coaches who win more than once with the same team).

Other coaches with more potential than Dungy or Cowher include Todd Haley, Herm Edwards, and Gunther Cunningham who are all still Super Bowl virgins.

Rausch
12-19-2012, 11:08 AM
You'd probably be better off ignoring history than misreading it and overreacting to it.

This...

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 11:29 AM
You'd probably be better off ignoring history than misreading it and overreacting to it.

ROFL

I'm not misreading anything.

No coach that has won a Super Bowl with one team has won it again with a different team.

That's a fact. A cold, hard fact.

Get used to it.

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 11:30 AM
If Marty had either of those guys he'd have won multiple Super Bowls.

Except for one solid season from Joe Montana where they went to the AFC championship game, Marty has never had quarterbacks like Roethlisberger and Manning. Instead, Marty had guys like Kosar and DeBerg and Bono and Grbac and Phyllis Rivers.

And I suppose Marty wasn't at all responsible for that, was he?

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 11:30 AM
The problem is that Dungy's teams always under performed.

Those Tampa teams were loaded defensively and had good skill players on offense but the offenses and QB's were not successful. What Dilfer accomplished in Baltimore should have happened in Tampa or at least should have been in Super Bowls.

In Indy, Dungy had Edgerrin James, Manning, Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison, but his teams struggled in the playoffs and were weak defensively, which is supposedly Dungy's area of expertise.

The reality is the he never "coached up" his teams or got them over the hump. His teams improved because of personnel improvements, not through scheme or coaching.

:bravo:

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 11:36 AM
You'd probably be better off ignoring history than misreading it and overreacting to it.

Also, you might want to read what I said again.

I said I'm not interested in COMPLETELY ignoring history.

That means that I'm not going to make my decision based SOLELY on that but I'm also not going to ignore that as a potential factor during the process.

It does matter.

Rausch
12-19-2012, 11:39 AM
:bravo:

I'll 2nd that.

patteeu
12-19-2012, 11:41 AM
ROFL

I'm not misreading anything.

No coach that has won a Super Bowl with one team has won it again with a different team.

That's a fact. A cold, hard fact.

Get used to it.

It's a fact. The misreading part comes when you attempt to figure out what that fact means.

bevischief
12-19-2012, 11:43 AM
food for thought:

“@CoachCox8100: @TonyDungy who should chiefs take with first or 2nd pick in the draft?” I would take Georgia QB Aaron Murray if he comes out

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/480210/aaron-murray

Don't want.

DaneMcCloud
12-19-2012, 12:24 PM
We'll get to see how much of that was Dungy and how much of that was Manning. Remember the huge knock on Manning was he could never win the big game.

I'm not sure if it'll be a fair comparison because Manning never enjoyed the kind of defense he has in Denver while in Indy.

As we saw in 2011, Peyton Manning was the only reason why the Colts were competing for Super Bowls during the Dungy/Polian era. Peyton Manning carried those teams and IIRC, the 2009 Super Bowl runner-up Colts had the 29th ranked defense that season.

IMO, the "blame" for lack of Super Bowl appearances during the Polian/Dungy/Manning era lies squarely on the shoulders of Polian and Dungy, not Manning.

DaneMcCloud
12-19-2012, 12:27 PM
If Marty had either of those guys he'd have won multiple Super Bowls.


I don't believe that to be true.

His 14-2 San Diego team was loaded with offensive and defensive talent, yet he became extremely conservative, once again, in the playoffs and lost.

Marty is what he is, which is why he hasn't held an NFL head coaching job since 2006.

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 12:29 PM
It's a fact. The misreading part comes when you attempt to figure out what that fact means.

It's clear from your answers that you have no idea what I think that fact means.

DaneMcCloud
12-19-2012, 12:35 PM
It's clear from your answers that you have no idea what I think that fact means.


http://cim-cim-images.cdn2.comcast.net/fc03img/Comcast_CIM_Prod_Fancast_Image/87/967/1335386318916_It_s_Pat_The_Movie_02_1280x640_Overlay_590_295.jpg

patteeu
12-19-2012, 12:46 PM
I'm not sure if it'll be a fair comparison because Manning never enjoyed the kind of defense he has in Denver while in Indy.

As we saw in 2011, Peyton Manning was the only reason why the Colts were competing for Super Bowls during the Dungy/Polian era. Peyton Manning carried those teams and IIRC, the 2009 Super Bowl runner-up Colts had the 29th ranked defense that season.

IMO, the "blame" for lack of Super Bowl appearances during the Polian/Dungy/Manning era lies squarely on the shoulders of Polian and Dungy, not Manning.

No Super Bowl winning QB has ever led a second team to a Super Bowl victory. Therefore, it can't happen. /unserious

O.city
12-19-2012, 12:48 PM
No Super Bowl winning QB has ever led a second team to a Super Bowl victory. Therefore, it can't happen. /unserious

Is this actually true?

Rausch
12-19-2012, 12:48 PM
No Super Bowl winning QB has ever led a second team to a Super Bowl victory. Therefore, it can't happen. /unserious

If you jinx us I will NEVER forgive you...

patteeu
12-19-2012, 12:51 PM
Is this actually true?

Yes. Only two have led a second team to a losing effort in the Superbowl, Kurt Warner (St. Louis, Arizona) and Craig Morton (Dallas, Denver).

htismaqe
12-19-2012, 01:21 PM
No Super Bowl winning QB has ever led a second team to a Super Bowl victory. Therefore, it can't happen. /unserious

And you accused me of overreacting.

ROFL

dirk digler
12-19-2012, 01:27 PM
No Super Bowl winning QB has ever led a second team to a Super Bowl victory. Therefore, it can't happen. /unserious

That is pretty interesting. Watch Peyton win it all this year

Brock
12-19-2012, 01:40 PM
Yes. Only two have led a second team to a losing effort in the Superbowl, Kurt Warner (St. Louis, Arizona) and Craig Morton (Dallas, Denver).

Scratch Morton off that list. He lost both times.

Marcellus
12-19-2012, 01:41 PM
I don't believe that to be true.

His 14-2 San Diego team was loaded with offensive and defensive talent, yet he became extremely conservative, once again, in the playoffs and lost.

Marty is what he is, which is why he hasn't held an NFL head coaching job since 2006.

Marty didn't lose the 2006 AFC Title game due to being conservative, he lost it because Marlon McCree was an idiot.

In the final game of the divisional playoffs, the New England Patriots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Patriots) faced the San Diego Chargers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_Chargers) team, who were unbeaten at home in the regular season. The Chargers' roster included league MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Most_Valuable_Player_Award) running back LaDainian Tomlinson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaDainian_Tomlinson), who broke several league records, nine Pro Bowlers, and five All-Pro players. However, four Chargers turnovers, three of which were converted into Patriots scoring drives, helped lead to a Chargers loss. San Diego lost despite outgaining the Patriots in rushing yards, 148-51 and total yards, 352-327, while also intercepting three passes from Tom Brady (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady).
In the first quarter, after San Diego coach Marty Schottenheimer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_Schottenheimer) opted to go for it on 4th-and-11 instead of attempting a 47-yard field goal, quarterback Philip Rivers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Rivers) lost a fumble while being sacked by Mike Vrabel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Vrabel), setting up Stephen Gostkowski (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Gostkowski)'s 51-yard field goal with 40 seconds left in the period. In the second quarter, Chargers receiver Eric Parker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Parker_%28American_football%29)'s 13-yard punt return set up a 48-yard scoring drive that ended with LaDainian Tomlinson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaDainian_Tomlinson)'s 2-yard touchdown run, giving his team a 7-3 lead. Then, on the Patriots' next drive, linebacker Donnie Edwards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donnie_Edwards) intercepted a pass from Brady and returned it to the 41-yard line. But the Chargers ended up punting after Rivers was sacked on third down by defensive back Artrell Hawkins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artrell_Hawkins). Later in the quarter, Tomlinson rushed twice for 13 yards and took a screen pass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_pass) 58 yards to the Patriots' 6-yard line, setting up a 6-yard touchdown run by Michael Turner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Turner_%28American_football%29) with 2:04 left in the half. New England responded with a 72-yard scoring drive, with receiver Jabar Gaffney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabar_Gaffney) catching four passes for 46 yards, including a 7-yard touchdown reception with six seconds left in the half, cutting their deficit to 14-10.
In the second half, Brady threw his second interception of the game. But once again, the Chargers were forced to punt after Rivers was sacked on third down. Mike Scifres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Scifres)' 36-yard punt pinned New England back at their own 2-yard line, and San Diego subsequently forced a punt, but Parker muffed the kick and New England's David Thomas recovered the fumble at the Chargers' 31-yard line. New England's drive seemed to stall after Brady fumbled on 3rd and 13. Patriots' tackle Matt Light (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Light) recovered it and Chargers defensive back Drayton Florence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drayton_Florence) drew a 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for taunting Patriots tight end Daniel Graham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Graham). The drive continued and Gostkowski eventually kicked a 34-yard field goal to cut their deficit to 14-13. Then, on San Diego's next drive, linebacker Rosevelt Colvin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosevelt_Colvin) intercepted a pass from Rivers at the New England 36-yard line. The Patriots then drove to the Chargers 41-yard line, but were halted there and had to punt. After the punt, Rivers completed two passes to tight end Antonio Gates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gates) for 31 yards and a 31-yard pass to Vincent Jackson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Jackson), setting up Tomlinson's second rushing touchdown to give the Chargers an 8-point lead, 21-13.
New England responded by driving to San Diego's 41-yard line. On a fourth-down conversion attempt, Brady's pass was intercepted by Marlon McCree (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlon_McCree), but Troy Brown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Brown) stripped the ball, and receiver Reche Caldwell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reche_Caldwell) recovered it. Schottenheimer unsuccessfully challenged the play and lost a timeout. Four plays later, Brady threw a 4-yard touchdown pass to Caldwell. On the next play, running back Kevin Faulk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Faulk) took a direct snap and scored the two-point conversion, tying the game. Then, after forcing a punt, Brady completed a 19-yard pass to Daniel Graham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Graham). Two plays later, Caldwell caught a 49-yard strike down the right sideline to set up Gostkowski's third field goal to give them a 24-21 lead with only 1:10 left in the fourth quarter. With no timeouts left, San Diego drove to the Patriots 36-yard line on their final possession, but Nate Kaeding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nate_Kaeding)'s 54-yard field goal attempt fell short with three seconds remaining in the game.

patteeu
12-19-2012, 01:43 PM
Scratch Morton off that list. He lost both times.

Good point. He's the only other guy to get to a SB with two different teams, but he didn't belong in that post.

DaneMcCloud
12-19-2012, 01:45 PM
Marty didn't lose the 2006 AFC Title game due to being conservative, he lost it because Marlon McCree was an idiot.



Sure. And Ernest Byner was an idiot. And Dave Kreig was an idiot. Etc. and so on.

Marty lost the 2004 playoff game against the Jets and Herm Edwards in overtime because he was too afraid to move the football.

Face it: Marty had 18 post season appearances and only won 5 games.

.277 playoff percentage.

But it was never his fault. All 18 times.

BigMeatballDave
12-19-2012, 01:48 PM
IMO, the "blame" for lack of Super Bowl appearances during the Polian/Dungy/Manning era lies squarely on the shoulders of Polian and Dungy, not Manning.

Ironically, Peyton's lone SB win was due to the way the D played.

He tried to give that WC game to the Chiefs.

milkman
12-19-2012, 01:52 PM
Marty didn't lose the 2006 AFC Title game due to being conservative, he lost it because Marlon McCree was an idiot.

In the final game of the divisional playoffs, the New England Patriots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Patriots) faced the San Diego Chargers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_Chargers) team, who were unbeaten at home in the regular season. The Chargers' roster included league MVP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Most_Valuable_Player_Award) running back LaDainian Tomlinson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaDainian_Tomlinson), who broke several league records, nine Pro Bowlers, and five All-Pro players. However, four Chargers turnovers, three of which were converted into Patriots scoring drives, helped lead to a Chargers loss. San Diego lost despite outgaining the Patriots in rushing yards, 148-51 and total yards, 352-327, while also intercepting three passes from Tom Brady (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady).
In the first quarter, after San Diego coach Marty Schottenheimer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_Schottenheimer) opted to go for it on 4th-and-11 instead of attempting a 47-yard field goal, quarterback Philip Rivers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Rivers) lost a fumble while being sacked by Mike Vrabel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Vrabel), setting up Stephen Gostkowski (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Gostkowski)'s 51-yard field goal with 40 seconds left in the period. In the second quarter, Chargers receiver Eric Parker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Parker_%28American_football%29)'s 13-yard punt return set up a 48-yard scoring drive that ended with LaDainian Tomlinson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaDainian_Tomlinson)'s 2-yard touchdown run, giving his team a 7-3 lead. Then, on the Patriots' next drive, linebacker Donnie Edwards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donnie_Edwards) intercepted a pass from Brady and returned it to the 41-yard line. But the Chargers ended up punting after Rivers was sacked on third down by defensive back Artrell Hawkins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artrell_Hawkins). Later in the quarter, Tomlinson rushed twice for 13 yards and took a screen pass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_pass) 58 yards to the Patriots' 6-yard line, setting up a 6-yard touchdown run by Michael Turner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Turner_%28American_football%29) with 2:04 left in the half. New England responded with a 72-yard scoring drive, with receiver Jabar Gaffney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabar_Gaffney) catching four passes for 46 yards, including a 7-yard touchdown reception with six seconds left in the half, cutting their deficit to 14-10.
In the second half, Brady threw his second interception of the game. But once again, the Chargers were forced to punt after Rivers was sacked on third down. Mike Scifres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Scifres)' 36-yard punt pinned New England back at their own 2-yard line, and San Diego subsequently forced a punt, but Parker muffed the kick and New England's David Thomas recovered the fumble at the Chargers' 31-yard line. New England's drive seemed to stall after Brady fumbled on 3rd and 13. Patriots' tackle Matt Light (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Light) recovered it and Chargers defensive back Drayton Florence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drayton_Florence) drew a 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for taunting Patriots tight end Daniel Graham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Graham). The drive continued and Gostkowski eventually kicked a 34-yard field goal to cut their deficit to 14-13. Then, on San Diego's next drive, linebacker Rosevelt Colvin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosevelt_Colvin) intercepted a pass from Rivers at the New England 36-yard line. The Patriots then drove to the Chargers 41-yard line, but were halted there and had to punt. After the punt, Rivers completed two passes to tight end Antonio Gates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gates) for 31 yards and a 31-yard pass to Vincent Jackson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Jackson), setting up Tomlinson's second rushing touchdown to give the Chargers an 8-point lead, 21-13.
New England responded by driving to San Diego's 41-yard line. On a fourth-down conversion attempt, Brady's pass was intercepted by Marlon McCree (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlon_McCree), but Troy Brown (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Brown) stripped the ball, and receiver Reche Caldwell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reche_Caldwell) recovered it. Schottenheimer unsuccessfully challenged the play and lost a timeout. Four plays later, Brady threw a 4-yard touchdown pass to Caldwell. On the next play, running back Kevin Faulk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Faulk) took a direct snap and scored the two-point conversion, tying the game. Then, after forcing a punt, Brady completed a 19-yard pass to Daniel Graham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Graham). Two plays later, Caldwell caught a 49-yard strike down the right sideline to set up Gostkowski's third field goal to give them a 24-21 lead with only 1:10 left in the fourth quarter. With no timeouts left, San Diego drove to the Patriots 36-yard line on their final possession, but Nate Kaeding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nate_Kaeding)'s 54-yard field goal attempt fell short with three seconds remaining in the game.

The irony here is that this game was an indication that Marty might finally have figured it out, that you have to play aggresively, rather than play to not to lose.

And that was his last game.

DaneMcCloud
12-19-2012, 01:58 PM
Ironically, Peyton's lone SB win was due to the way the D played.

He tried to give that WC game to the Chiefs.

That was a strange Super Bowl game in Miami. Rain, and a below average performance by Peyton. Oh, and Rex Grossman.

Bizarre.

Marcellus
12-19-2012, 02:08 PM
Sure. And Ernest Byner was an idiot. And Dave Kreig was an idiot. Etc. and so on.

Marty lost the 2004 playoff game against the Jets and Herm Edwards in overtime because he was too afraid to move the football.

Face it: Marty had 18 post season appearances and only won 5 games.

.277 playoff percentage.

But it was never his fault. All 18 times.

I didn't say he was never conservative, I am a fucking Chiefs fan I know what he was like in KC.

You used his 2006 14-2 loaded team as an example of his being conservative. Not a good example.

Setsuna
12-19-2012, 02:54 PM
Polian in Jax?

Mr. Laz
12-19-2012, 06:51 PM
The Darkside Of Bill Polian

<time datetime="2012-12-19">Dec 19th, 2012 at 11:00 am</time> by Nathan Bramwell (http://arrowheadaddict.com/author/nathanbramwell/)Chiefs (http://arrowheadaddict.com/category/chiefs-2/)


Home (http://arrowheadaddict.com/) » Chiefs (http://arrowheadaddict.com/category/chiefs-2/) » The Darkside of Bill Polian

http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/130/files/2012/12/5626426-590x392.jpg?4c1d59 (http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/130/files/2012/12/5626426.jpg?4c1d59)

Last week, I offered up my opinion on who I think the Chiefs should take with their first round pick, Matt Barkley. I got some positive responses, and I got some negative responses. I clearly expect that to happen again with this post, especially after the editor of Arrowhead Addict, Patrick Allen, wrote about the rumors that have been cycling around about the possibility of former Bills, Jaguars and Colts General Manager, Bill Polian, being a likely candidate to land in Kansas City if current Chiefs GM, Scott Pioli, is let go after the season.

This is what Allen wrote about the possibility: “Hiring Polian would be a brilliant move by Hunt. He’d be getting an experienced executive and personnel man but at the same time, he’d be getting the younger Chris Polian as well. Polian senior was 69 when the Colts fired him in January. He likely won’t be with the Chiefs for long but he certainly could stick around long enough to get the franchise back on track.”

The responses in the comments section were mostly positive to this idea, as I figured they would be. When first considering GM candidates this season when it became clear this whole Scott Pioli thing wasn’t working out, Bill Polian was one of the first guys that came to my mind. After all, he’s taken two different teams to five combined Super Bowls, winning one. He’s won multiple Executive of the Year Awards, and it’s hard to deny the sustained success he was able to achieve with each team he managed.

Then I started to remember some rumblings coming out of Indianapolis when Polian, and his son Chris, the GM, were fired. While many other fans of many other teams seemed shocked that Polian would be fired because of one bad season missing his star quarterback and after maintaining such a high level of success over the years in Indy, I remember Colts fans not being that shocked. In fact, many of them, if my memory served me correctly, were ecstaticthat Polian was gone. After spending a few minutes on Google, I found articles supporting my memory.
The first article I found was from the Colts’ SB Nation Blog, Stampede Blue, and titled: The Polian Reign of Terror Ends. As the article goes (http://www.stampedeblue.com/2012/1/4/2681679/the-polian-reign-of-terror-ends):
“I couldn’t get out of my head the unbelievable culture of fear that the insecure, violently paranoid Polians used to keep control of the organization. And I won’t lie. I’m glad Polian and his equally odious son were fired.

Not reassigned. Not ‘allowed to resign.’ Fired.
It was a fitting end to two people who simply lacked the ability to treat others decently and respectfully, especially if those others worked under them…

… I don’t wish plague or ruin on the Polian household, but I am glad that their silly little game of playing dictator is now out of Indianapolis.”
Those are some pretty strong sentiments. And the blogger is not alone. Here is another story, this one from the IndyStar, which documents some of Polian’s dictator habits (http://blogs.indystar.com/philb/2012/01/04/polian-dismissal-means-no-more-fear/) including arrogance, openly ignoring employees, a God-complex, and overall douchebaggery. And yes, I know what you’re thinking: that sounds like Scott Pioli.

And this is exactly why the Chiefs and Clark Hunt should stay as far away from Polian as they possibly can. Just because we’ve become accustomed to one dictator is no reason why we should hire another one. Think of this as GMs think of coaching changes. When one coach is fired, the most common thing to do is hire another head coach with a near opposite personality/coaching style as the one just let go. Think Herm Edwards to Todd Haley and then Todd Haley to Romeo Crennel. Call it an over-correction, but this is just something teams and management tends to do.

I don’t know about you guys, but I’m tired of the whole dictator thing in Kansas City, and that sound like exactly what the Chiefs would be getting. True, what Patrick Allen wrote earlier highlighted Polian’s positives, and admittedly there are many. And I will also admit that winning hides the flaws that losing brings to the surface. But I don’t know if I can support another General Manager/whatever Bill would be that would cause anymore anxiety at Arrowhead.

Been there, done that.

DaneMcCloud
12-19-2012, 07:54 PM
I didn't say he was never conservative, I am a fucking Chiefs fan I know what he was like in KC.

You used his 2006 14-2 loaded team as an example of his being conservative. Not a good example.

The 2006 San Diego Chargers were 16th in passing yards.

I wouldn't call that unconservative.

JASONSAUTO
12-19-2012, 07:57 PM
Dungy won a Super Bowl because of Peyton Manning.

Cowher won a Super Bowl because of Ben Roethlisberger.

Marty won a Super Bowl...oh wait, nevermind.

DO WE WANT TO WIN REGULAR SEASON GAMES OR DO WE WANT TO WIN A GODDAMN FUCKING SUPER BOWL?!?!?!?!?!
Don't must super bowl winning coaches win them because of someone?
Posted via Mobile Device

DaneMcCloud
12-19-2012, 08:03 PM
Don't must super bowl winning coaches win them because of someone?
Posted via Mobile Device

I'd say that far more often than not, it's a team effort.

I've never seen a team completely collapse with the loss of a singular player like the 2011 Colts.

Chocolate Hog
12-19-2012, 08:05 PM
That 2011 Colts team had a lot of injuries Manning, Foster, Clark, Bullitt, etc.

That's the problem with Polians philosophy it really can't overcome injuries to key players.

whoman69
12-19-2012, 08:23 PM
You'd probably be better off ignoring history than misreading it and overreacting to it.

Its always worked for you.