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View Full Version : U.S. Issues ‘Obamacare’ to hit smokers with huge penalties


KILLER_CLOWN
01-26-2013, 12:25 PM
Smokers, beware: tobacco penalties under President Obama’s Affordable Care Act could subject millions of smokers to fees costing thousands of dollars, making healthcare more expensive for them than Americans with other unhealthy habits.

The Affordable Care Act, which critics have also called “Obamacare”, could subject smokers to premiums that are 50 percent higher than usual, starting next Jan 1. Health insurers will be allowed to charge smokers penalties that overweight Americans or those with other health conditions would not be subjected to.

A 60-year-old smoker could pay penalties as high as $5,100, in addition to the premiums, the Associated Press reports. A 55-year-old smoker’s penalty could reach $4,250. The older a smoker is, the higher the penalty will be.

Nearly one in every five U.S. adults smokes, with a higher number of low-income people addicted to the unhealthy habit. Even though smokers are more likely to develop heart disease, cancer and lung problems and would therefore require more health care, the penalties might devastate those who need help the most – including retirees, older Americans, and low-income individuals.

“We don’t want to create barriers for people to get health care coverage,” California state Assemblyman Richard Pan told AP. “We want people who are smoking to get smoking cessation treatment.”

Nearly 450,000 US residents die of smoking-related diseases each year, making the unhealthy habit a serious concern for lawmakers. One legislator is trying to criminalize smoking in his state, while others have raised taxes on cigarettes and the Obama administration has tried to inflict hefty fines upon smokers’ premiums.

Karen Pollitz, a former consumer protection regular, told AP that no insurers want to provide coverage for Americans who have been smoking for decades, and that the penalties might prompt people to abandon the habit.

“You would have the flexibility to discourage them,” she told AP.

But quitting is not easy, and charging older smokers up to three times as much as younger ones could make it difficult for them to seek care in the first place. A 60-year-old smoker charged with the penalty could be paying about $8,411 per year for health insurance, which is about 24 percent of a $35,000 income and is considered “unaffordable” under federal law.

“The effect of the smoking (penalty) allowed under the law would be that lower-income smokers could not afford health insurance,” said Richard Curtis, president of the Institute for Health Policy Solutions.

Ultimately, the law that is meant to make health care more affordable could have the opposite effect on older smokers at a time when smoking-related illnesses usually arise.

http://rt.com/usa/news/health-care-penalties-americans-769/

Marco Polo
01-26-2013, 12:27 PM
As they should. Smoking causes cancer. Fact. Treating cancer costs a lot of money. Those that smoke should have to pay more.

notorious
01-26-2013, 12:29 PM
Next up: Obesity


After that: Guns are a health risk

BigRedChief
01-26-2013, 12:34 PM
As they should. Smoking causes cancer. Fact. Treating cancer costs a lot of money. Those that smoke should have to pay more.THIS!

All risks should pay more. Obesity, high blood pressure etc. Should be on the table. It's insurance. The higher probability of you needing the insurance should pay more. Financial incentives are a good motivator to make better choices.

rockymtnchief
01-26-2013, 12:35 PM
Next up: Obesity


After that: Guns are a health risk

Don't forget:

Alcohol
Fast driving
Dairy
Sugar
Unprotected sex
Concrete

Soon we will all be required to wear bubble wrap suits and drink only gubment approved water.

cosmo20002
01-26-2013, 12:35 PM
The article does not say how Obamacare hits smokers with a penalty. Insurance companies have base premiums on risk, which is higher for smokers. For group policies like an employer would offer, non-smokers often get a discount. So, the premise of the article seems to be BS.

rockymtnchief
01-26-2013, 12:38 PM
Insurance companies already charge higher premiums for tobacco users, correct? (As it should be)

cosmo20002
01-26-2013, 12:42 PM
Insurance companies already charge higher premiums for tobacco users, correct? (As it should be)

Yes, which is why its dumb to say Obamacare is putting in a penalty.

Bwana
01-26-2013, 12:43 PM
Don't forget:

Alcohol
Fast driving
Dairy
Sugar
Unprotected sex
Concrete

Soon we will all be required to wear bubble wrap suits and drink only gubment approved water.

I guess our ATV/hell raising trips will take a hit. Wait, no they won't, fuck um. :)

rockymtnchief
01-26-2013, 12:46 PM
I guess our ATV/hell raising trips will take a hit. Wait, no they won't, fuck um. :)

ROFLROFLROFL

They can't fine us if they can find us!:thumb:

RyFo18
01-26-2013, 12:53 PM
Yeah, this is nothing new. My employers' insurance policy charges a flat $500 fee to smokers.

Bwana
01-26-2013, 12:53 PM
ROFLROFLROFL

They can't fine us if they can find us!:thumb:

Heh and even if they find us, I think there is a reasonable chance we have them outgunned. :evil:

notorious
01-26-2013, 12:55 PM
Yeah, this is nothing new. My employers' insurance policy charges a flat $500 fee to smokers.

Monthly or per year?

rockymtnchief
01-26-2013, 01:07 PM
Heh and even if they find us, I think there is a reasonable chance we have them outgunned. :evil:

Affirmative, Ghost Rider!:thumb:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/IxUfE1C7KeY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Bwana
01-26-2013, 01:12 PM
Affirmative, Ghost Rider!:thumb:

<IFRAME height=315 src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/IxUfE1C7KeY" frameBorder=0 width=420 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>

The last time I ran any rounds through my .500 was up at Cooke. I need to make it over to the range.

rockymtnchief
01-26-2013, 01:22 PM
The last time I ran any rounds through my .500 was up at Cooke. I need to make it over to the range.

End of September for me. I think I have withdrawls!

Btw...I have a friend who elk hunted this year with his. (8" barrell)

Brock
01-26-2013, 01:26 PM
So what?

BigRedChief
01-26-2013, 01:47 PM
So what?On this we can agree. Insurance companies already charge more for smokers.

Misleading thread title.

Obamacare isn't hitting smokers with a penalty. It's just following established private insurance practices.

-King-
01-26-2013, 02:01 PM
Wait... so doing something that is Proven to cause cancer will raise your insurance? How dare they!!
Posted via Mobile Device

BucEyedPea
01-26-2013, 02:10 PM
As they should. Smoking causes cancer. Fact. Treating cancer costs a lot of money. Those that smoke should have to pay more.

I bet if private insurers did this in the free market the left would scream.

Bump
01-26-2013, 02:20 PM
my question is, why don't they try to stop the tobacco companies from adding in all that bullshit that makes cigs 1000x more addicting.

Pitt Gorilla
01-26-2013, 02:20 PM
Insurance companies already charge higher premiums for tobacco users, correct? (As it should be)And fatties, at least some do.

Pitt Gorilla
01-26-2013, 02:21 PM
I bet if private insurers did this in the free market the left would scream.They already do.

alnorth
01-26-2013, 02:36 PM
man, talk about complete, utter ignorance.

If they could, health insurance companies would charge more than 50% for smokers.

Obamacare >>>RESTRICTS<<< insurance companies to surcharge ONLY 50%, and no more.

chiefzilla1501
01-26-2013, 02:51 PM
Good. Smoking is your choice, but fuck that if I have to pay for your habit.

chiefzilla1501
01-26-2013, 02:53 PM
They already do.

As do private sector businesses. Lots of them.

KILLER_CLOWN
01-26-2013, 03:23 PM
So what?

Well this thread is an FYI for those that currently smoke and do not currently have insurance. The new gun to the head insurance plan will be forced upon those, questions?

RyFo18
01-26-2013, 03:37 PM
Monthly or per year?

Per year.

Brock
01-26-2013, 03:45 PM
Well this thread is an FYI for those that currently smoke and do not currently have insurance. The new gun to the head insurance plan will be forced upon those, questions?

So quit being stupid and quit smoking.

chiefzilla1501
01-26-2013, 03:47 PM
Well this thread is an FYI for those that currently smoke and do not currently have insurance. The new gun to the head insurance plan will be forced upon those, questions?

I don't think you understand the concept of premium pooling. Or the fact that your decision to smoke raises costs on everyone in the pool.

I suppose you would object to car insurance premiums going up if you have multiple speeding tickets and a DUI.

cosmo20002
01-26-2013, 04:54 PM
Yet another right-wing nuttery post that's completely untrue, and the OP slinks away to post another one later.

BucEyedPea
01-26-2013, 04:57 PM
They already do.

Who? The left who screams.

AustinChief
01-26-2013, 06:16 PM
I have zero issue with higher risk activities warranting higher premiums. Nothing at all wrong with that. The only thing I take issue with are quotes like " 450,000 US residents die of smoking-related diseases each year."

While technically true, it is COMPLETELY misleading. This is not saying that 450,000 people died as a direct result of smoking... but it certainly sounds like it doesn't it?

It would be the same as if I just took the numbers of all the people who died from diabetes or heart failure and lumped them in as "obesity related" deaths.

Just to be clear, smoking isn't healthy, that's a fact. It increases risk for cancer and other health issues. It would be ridiculous for insurers not to charge more. Its probably getting charged at a much higher rate then it warrants but that's a private business decision and it isn't just based on smoking alone but the fact that smokers also tend to fall into other categories for higher risk. Sadly, this tends to target the lower class disproportionately but them's the breaks.

tmh
01-26-2013, 06:37 PM
While i do agree that choices made on an individual level should effect life or health insurance rates, what i have a problem with is the details.

Lets take hypertension. Millions suffer from it, and a good percentage of them don't smoke and have a good diet. They will be lumped into that category too. Paying higher premiums because they have high blood pressure. There is also HBP that cant be controlled by meds. You charge them higher to if this condition starts while they are already insured?

KILLER_CLOWN
01-26-2013, 11:40 PM
Yet another right-wing nuttery post that's completely untrue, and the OP slinks away to post another one later.

No one knows wtf you're talking about, so nothing new and carry on. LMAO

BigRedChief
01-28-2013, 05:09 PM
While i do agree that choices made on an individual level should effect life or health insurance rates, what i have a problem with is the details.

Lets take hypertension. Millions suffer from it, and a good percentage of them don't smoke and have a good diet. They will be lumped into that category too. Paying higher premiums because they have high blood pressure. There is also HBP that cant be controlled by meds. You charge them higher to if this condition starts while they are already insured?I have HBP. I should be charged more than someone who has not ate too many pizzas.

BucEyedPea
01-28-2013, 05:23 PM
I have HBP. I should be charged more than someone who has not ate too many pizzas.

Ya' know here's what you progs miss as a fundamental point. Private insurance is a voluntarily entered deal. It is not with govt. So the govt has no authority to be penalizing or rewarding any such behaviors. This is especially true for the Federal govt. You guys never make this distinction.

KILLER_CLOWN
01-28-2013, 05:26 PM
Ya' know here's what you progs miss as a fundamental point. Private insurance is a voluntarily entered deal. It is not with govt. So the govt has no authority to be penalizing or rewarding any such behaviors. This is especially true for the Federal govt. You guys never make this distinction.

Democrats want democracy it isn't really anything new..Always been 2 wolves and a sheep deciding on whats for dinner.

aturnis
01-28-2013, 05:30 PM
As they should. Smoking causes cancer. Fact. Treating cancer costs a lot of money. Those that smoke should have to pay more.

Agreed.

Good drivers get good rates and even "perks", while bad, high risk drivers pay higher rates. OH NOES!

aturnis
01-28-2013, 05:35 PM
my question is, why don't they try to stop the tobacco companies from adding in all that bullshit that makes cigs 1000x more addicting.

They were ffer eCigs, but idiots still smoke the rat poison sticks.

Prison Bitch
01-28-2013, 05:59 PM
Obama sure likes to target groups he doesn't like. Not a very tolerant man or interested in equal protection.

Aries Walker
01-28-2013, 06:33 PM
Let's see . . .

Shaky premise from a biased web site
Factual inaccuracies gleefully pointed out
One of six habitually caustic posters insults OP
Other caustic poster insults first caustic poster
Question already answered, asked again
Factual inaccuracies ignored
Opposing party leader blamed

All this needs is someone to post "Peyton Manning", "Q", or "Too fat /omaha" and I think we've got all the bases covered here.

KILLER_CLOWN
01-28-2013, 11:58 PM
Let's see . . .

Shaky premise from a biased web site
Factual inaccuracies gleefully pointed out
One of six habitually caustic posters insults OP
Other caustic poster insults first caustic poster
Question already answered, asked again
Factual inaccuracies ignored
Opposing party leader blamed

All this needs is someone to post "Peyton Manning", "Q", or "Too fat /omaha" and I think we've got all the bases covered here.

3/7 isn't too bad bro....

mikey23545
01-29-2013, 12:24 AM
"Beginning in 2014 every American will have to carry health insurance or pay a penalty. That much the Supreme Court’s June 28 decision on the Affordable Care Act made perfectly clear. What the justices’ ruling didn’t resolve: how the individual mandate will be enforced. That task, along with dozens of others, now falls to the IRS."


Maybe the difference between private sector insurance and Obamacare is having the Brownshirts of the IRS knocking down your door in the middle of the night to search for tobacco and desserts and fatty meats.

cosmo20002
01-29-2013, 12:32 AM
Maybe the difference betwe en private sector insurance and Obamacare is having the Brownshirts of the IRS knocking down your door in the middle of the night to search for tobacco and desserts and fatty meats.

Yeah, maybe. :drool:

BigRedChief
01-29-2013, 06:01 AM
"Beginning in 2014 every American will have to carry health insurance or pay a penalty. That much the Supreme Court’s June 28 decision on the Affordable Care Act made perfectly clear. What the justices’ ruling didn’t resolve: how the individual mandate will be enforced. That task, along with dozens of others, now falls to the IRS."


Maybe the difference between private sector insurance and Obamacare is having the Brownshirts of the IRS knocking down your door in the middle of the night to search for tobacco and desserts and fatty meats.

There is no enforcement in Obamacare. You can ignore it all out want and still stay moronic and free.

Ace Gunner
01-29-2013, 05:21 PM
Don't forget:

Alcohol
Fast driving
Dairy
Sugar
Unprotected sex
Concrete

Soon we will all be required to wear bubble wrap suits and drink only gubment approved water.

this