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View Full Version : General Politics So, you say you aren't just a party line type of person?


petegz28
01-26-2013, 04:59 PM
Ok, let's just see how reasonable people here are. I want you to tell us what policies, concepts, beliefs, you support that are championed by an opposing party.

Of course I will start.

As a right leaning person I support the Left on the following...

1. Gay marriage
2. Legalize Pot
3. Streamlined immigration process
4. Abortion for rape and incest victims
5. Stronger background checks on firearms

Bowser
01-26-2013, 05:01 PM
What if we consider ourselves someone that walks the line right down the middle?

petegz28
01-26-2013, 05:09 PM
What if we consider ourselves someone that walks the line right down the middle?

I hear that said a lot but most people lean one way or the other.

La literatura
01-26-2013, 05:30 PM
I am a liberal Democrat in most aspects except that I have a moral opposition to abortion and generally support more restrictions on the procedure. I am also more hawkish than I think the current liberal mindset is, and I don't mind military spending levels (although I would rather cut the military than say, gut medicare).

notorious
01-26-2013, 05:36 PM
I believe that a person should be able to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't negatively affect another person.

Drugs, guns, sexual orientation, etc. I don't know what party the falls under, but that is what I believe.

It's called freedom and personal responsibility.

pr_capone
01-26-2013, 05:39 PM
I believe that a person should be able to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't negatively affect another person.

Drugs, guns, sexual orientation, etc. I don't know what party the falls under, but that is what I believe.

It's called freedom and personal responsibility.

DING

DING

DING

patteeu
01-26-2013, 05:53 PM
Ok, let's just see how reasonable people here are. I want you to tell us what policies, concepts, beliefs, you support that are championed by an opposing party.

Of course I will start.

As a right leaning person I support the Left on the following...

1. Gay marriage
2. Legalize Pot

I don't support the left on anything, but I support your first two policy changes.

BigRedChief
01-26-2013, 06:15 PM
As a known Obama supporter from the beginning my current political leanings are well known. Maybe you don't know that I was a Republican for 12 years. I was a early supporter of Ronald Reagan over George H. and voted for him twice. Also voted for George H Bush once.



Support gun rights. No bans on assault weapons or clip limits.
Want welfare reform. In favor of getting leeches off the government tit.
To the right of most republicans in support of Israel.
Think we should hunt down and kill every single member of Al-Quada until they renounce the destruction of the USA.
Strong supporter of the military.

Rain Man
01-26-2013, 06:20 PM
If it's a social issue, I lean left. If it's a fiscal issue, I lean right. I really need a new American political party to vote for.

BucEyedPea
01-26-2013, 06:37 PM
I am with the left on:
Civil liberties as in anti-patriot act, NDAA ( also with libertarians )
anti-war (currently) ( also with libertarians )
pot - legal by state including mine ( also with libertarians )
anti-empire and hegemony ( also with libertarians )
some military cuts ( also with libertarians )
and anti-police state which means new security issues under the WoT ( also with libertarians )
anti Nafta, Gatt and WTO ( also with libertarians )
anti-crony capitalism ( also with libertarians )


Side with Liberatarians:
Gay marriage - neutral which means govt out of marriage; also keep it a state issue
Free-market capitalism - what we don't have even under Republicans; no mixed economy crap
Anti-central banking
Anti-Keynesian economics
I do not subscribe to the idea of doing whatever one wants if it doesn't harm another directly or immediately across the board.


Neither party:
Originalist interpretation of our Constitution
End birth right citizenship

CrazyPhuD
01-26-2013, 06:39 PM
I am a party line person...the challenge is my party has only one member.

Comrade Crapski
01-26-2013, 06:43 PM
Neither party represents me.

Bowser
01-26-2013, 07:18 PM
If it's a social issue, I lean left. If it's a fiscal issue, I lean right. I really need a new American political party to vote for.

This is a good summary of how I feel, as well.

Prison Bitch
01-26-2013, 08:05 PM
As a right leaning person I support the Left on the following...


4. Abortion for rape and incest victims



The Left doesn't support that proposal. That is a traditional Republican idea, opposed only by the Relgious Right portion of the party's voters. So this one doesn't really count.

HolyHandgernade
01-26-2013, 09:24 PM
Ok, let's just see how reasonable people here are. I want you to tell us what policies, concepts, beliefs, you support that are championed by an opposing party.

Of course I will start.

As a right leaning person I support the Left on the following...

1. Gay marriage
2. Legalize Pot
3. Streamlined immigration process
4. Abortion for rape and incest victims
5. Stronger background checks on firearms

In other words, you support most of the humane and sane parts of the Left.

I believe there are people who "sponge off the system", though I don't think it is nearly as high of a number as most on the Right believe it is. I believe there is waste in the system, though I don't think the Right looks in the places where the largest abuses are taking place.

Honestly, the Right abandoned most of the sane and humane aspects the party used to champion, which is why I left it.

A Salt Weapon
01-26-2013, 09:25 PM
I believe that a person should be able to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't negatively affect another person.

Drugs, guns, sexual orientation, etc. I don't know what party the falls under, but that is what I believe.

It's called freedom and personal responsibility.

+1
Posted via Mobile Device

CoMoChief
01-26-2013, 10:56 PM
Drinking age? I think it should be 18. Now I know there's a lot of immaturity and stupid when it comes to being 18 and being drunk, so if bars/clubs etc want to keep a minimum age of 21 to enter their establishments then that's up to them. I just think it's stupid that you can be considered a legal adult and sign off on loans etc, vote, smoke cigarettes, fight combat in a war and risk your life, but you can't buy alcohol. No reason why this law can't model the ones set in England.

Legalize pot for recreational use. No reason not to. The war on drugs is pointless, does absolutely no good, it forces people to grow, use, buy in secret and it leads to more death, and it wastes billions of tax dollars.

Gay marriage? I don't agree with it, I think it's gross and weird as hell and I don't think they're real men, however it's none of my business and it shouldn't be the governments either. If a church is willing to marry two homosexuals, then good for the homos. No reason why they shouldn't be able to find true love. I do think there are some issues though when it comes to adopting children. That's a different argument for a different day.

Abortion? Personally I'm pro-life. There are exceptions like rape, incest, or if it's medically necessary to have abortions. But I believe life begins at conception. But just like gay marriage I don't think this should be the govt' business nor should it be mine. Being Pro-Life is just my personal belief and If someone wants to be pro-choice then that's up to them. But I'm not going to pay for it. No way in hell do I want my tax dollars to pay for abortions, clinics, etc. Just like I don't want my tax dollars paying for someone to have their tits enhanced. If they can't pay for it, then welp, looks like you're having the kid and then you can put it up for adoption.

We need massive immigration reform. We need to bring our troops home from overseas and put them on the borders instead. At least that'd be a start in the right direction.

I don't think there needs to be stronger background checks on guns. The federal govt already knows everything or can find out anything about a person. We don't need more gun control. We already have many laws on the books on what you can have as a weapon and where you can have them etc.

DementedLogic
01-26-2013, 11:12 PM
I don't understand the question. Democrats and Republicans support the same policies. How do you tow the line with one but not the other?

BigRedChief
01-26-2013, 11:12 PM
Gay marriage? I don't agree with it, I think it's gross and weird as hell and I don't think they're real mendo you realize how fucked up this statement is?

AndChiefs
01-26-2013, 11:49 PM
If it's a social issue, I lean left. If it's a fiscal issue, I lean right. I really need a new American political party to vote for.

This is pretty much exactly my political leanings.

BCD
01-27-2013, 12:47 AM
Pro-weed
Pro-life
Pro-Capital punishment
Pro-Gun. No more new laws. Enforce what is already there.
Homosexuals are humans. They have just as much right to be as miserable as heteros.

Small government. Very small.

BCD
01-27-2013, 12:49 AM
Drinking age? I think it should be 18. Now I know there's a lot of immaturity and stupid when it comes to being 18 and being drunk, so if bars/clubs etc want to keep a minimum age of 21 to enter their establishments then that's up to them. I just think it's stupid that you can be considered a legal adult and sign off on loans etc, vote, smoke cigarettes, fight combat in a war and risk your life, but you can't buy alcohol. No reason why this law can't model the ones set in England.

Legalize pot for recreational use. No reason not to. The war on drugs is pointless, does absolutely no good, it forces people to grow, use, buy in secret and it leads to more death, and it wastes billions of tax dollars.

Gay marriage? I don't agree with it, I think it's gross and weird as hell and I don't think they're real men, however it's none of my business and it shouldn't be the governments either. If a church is willing to marry two homosexuals, then good for the homos. No reason why they shouldn't be able to find true love. I do think there are some issues though when it comes to adopting children. That's a different argument for a different day.

Abortion? Personally I'm pro-life. There are exceptions like rape, incest, or if it's medically necessary to have abortions. But I believe life begins at conception. But just like gay marriage I don't think this should be the govt' business nor should it be mine. Being Pro-Life is just my personal belief and If someone wants to be pro-choice then that's up to them. But I'm not going to pay for it. No way in hell do I want my tax dollars to pay for abortions, clinics, etc. Just like I don't want my tax dollars paying for someone to have their tits enhanced. If they can't pay for it, then welp, looks like you're having the kid and then you can put it up for adoption.

We need massive immigration reform. We need to bring our troops home from overseas and put them on the borders instead. At least that'd be a start in the right direction.

I don't think there needs to be stronger background checks on guns. The federal govt already knows everything or can find out anything about a person. We don't need more gun control. We already have many laws on the books on what you can have as a weapon and where you can have them etc.
Gay-bash, much?

RyFo18
01-27-2013, 12:49 AM
Pro-weed
Pro-life
Pro-Capital punishment
Pro-Gun. No more new laws. Enforce what is already there.
Homosexuals are humans. They have just as much right to be as miserable as heteros.

Small government. Very small.

You are me.

CoMoChief
01-27-2013, 05:06 AM
do you realize how ****ed up this statement is?

your opinion

CoMoChief
01-27-2013, 05:19 AM
Gay-bash, much?

That's my personal opinion. To see these men act flamboyant (sp?) and feminine is just really gross, and I just choose to stay away from it. I work w/ a few that come into work w/ tight leather pants, bandanas I mean the whole 9 yards and really I'm surprised mgmt doesn't say anything to them....of course as soon as that door is opened it's discrimination. Doesn't mean gays can't get married if they choose. That's up to them not me. Hell if you wanna be really weird and wanna marry your goat if you're some farmer out in Utah or something, go ahead, that's not my business nor should it be the govt.

BucEyedPea
01-27-2013, 07:25 AM
I don't understand the question. Democrats and Republicans support the same policies. How do you tow the line with one but not the other?

Very astute.

BucEyedPea
01-27-2013, 07:27 AM
Gay-bash, much?

Snark much? That's his personal point of view. At least if the govt is out of it, then we all get to have our own view about it without forcing it on someone. Personally, I think it's between a man and a woman by definition, and odd but I support govt being neutral on it. And I have nothing against gay people. In fact there's gays that don't support gay marriage because the gay lifestyle is about sexual liberation.

BCD
01-27-2013, 07:37 AM
Snark much? That's his personal point of view. At least if the govt is out of it, then we all get to have our own view about it without forcing it on someone. Personally, I think it's between a man and a woman by definition, and odd but I support govt being neutral on it. And I have nothing against gay people. In fact there's gays that don't support gay marriage because the gay lifestyle is about sexual liberation.

Overpay for handbags, much?

BucEyedPea
01-27-2013, 07:39 AM
Overpay for handbags, much?

Have you got nothing to articulate an argument with?

BCD
01-27-2013, 07:45 AM
Have you got nothing to articulate an argument with?

Have you got no sense of humor, wench?

Dave Lane
01-27-2013, 07:47 AM
If it's a social issue, I lean left. If it's a fiscal issue, I lean right. I really need a new American political party to vote for.

Me to.

BucEyedPea
01-27-2013, 07:49 AM
Me to.

ROFL You do not lean right on fiscal issues.

Dave Lane
01-27-2013, 08:38 AM
do you realize how ****ed up this statement is?

Do you realize to whom you are speaking?

lewdog
01-27-2013, 08:41 AM
If it's a social issue, I lean left. If it's a fiscal issue, I lean right. I really need a new American political party to vote for.

+1 and sums up my political feelings to a tee. I like Obama for social issuues but his fiscal approach is nauseating. But when the other party provides a Mitt Romney, it ties your hands at the voting booth. What a shame this last election was.

Dave Lane
01-27-2013, 08:42 AM
ROFL You do not lean right on fiscal issues.

Absolutely.

I'm just not a steer the ship of state off a cliff immediately type. 20% cut in Defense spending, 10% cut in all entitlements, General spending cuts of 3-4% a year for 3-4 years. You know, like sane responses to cutting the budget, oh wait.

CoMoChief
01-27-2013, 09:04 AM
Me to.

:LOL: You're full of shit

chiefzilla1501
01-27-2013, 09:18 AM
Ok, let's just see how reasonable people here are. I want you to tell us what policies, concepts, beliefs, you support that are championed by an opposing party.

Of course I will start.

As a right leaning person I support the Left on the following...

1. Gay marriage
2. Legalize Pot
3. Streamlined immigration process
4. Abortion for rape and incest victims
5. Stronger background checks on firearms

Those are all social issues. I think there is a growing crowd of socially liberal, fiscally conservatives. I know people want to call that libertarian, but it's not. Think the populist appeal is in moderation of fiscal spending and socialism vs. being full-out in support of either side. That's about where I stand.

Ace Gunner
01-27-2013, 09:34 AM
I believe that a person should be able to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't negatively affect another person.

Drugs, guns, sexual orientation, etc. I don't know what party the falls under, but that is what I believe.

It's called freedom and personal responsibility.

ya, pretty much sweep my street & leave the rest to me. fucking idiots can't even deliver my fucking mail without going belly up every five years.

thousands of military bases worldwide, over a hundred battleships/destroyers patrolling worldwide, some 40 subs patrolling beneath the surface.

every country/territory american gov't has invaded over the course of fifty years is exploding in population. all the "outsourced" countries are completely artificially inflated economies.

When this goes bang, it is going to be ugly.

Ace Gunner
01-27-2013, 09:42 AM
Ok, let's just see how reasonable people here are. I want you to tell us what policies, concepts, beliefs, you support that are championed by an opposing party.

Of course I will start.

As a right leaning person I support the Left on the following...

1. Gay marriage
2. Legalize Pot
3. Streamlined immigration process
4. Abortion for rape and incest victims
5. Stronger background checks on firearms


and so

I'm also a lifer republican & I oppose background checks for a few reasons;

* the purpose is to deny a known criminal, arms access. well, if you already are in the system, then why not use the system against criminals instead of using a different system to check everyone else as well. lunacy. bureaucratic fail.

* now that you are in fact in the criminal records system, you need to be identified through your identification information -- your driver license or I.D. card, which is require by law.

* all states should coordinate criminal identification. whether it be rapists, killers, thieves -- what ever. the info isn't detailed, it is flagged.

* the DOJ is already a system. use it. make it accountable. make it accurate. make it work.


Tired of the bureaucratic murk. It works wonderfully in the private sector -- no license, no rental car. yet the rental car industry just keeps plugging along quite nicely and without fail.

dirk digler
01-27-2013, 09:50 AM
The current Republican party? Ummm... I will have to think about this one. They are pretty far out there anymore

Probably military and immigration are the 2 biggest ones I would agree with some of them on.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-27-2013, 10:06 AM
If it's a social issue, I lean left. If it's a fiscal issue, I lean right. I really need a new American political party to vote for.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel.

patteeu
01-27-2013, 10:11 AM
I think there is a growing crowd of socially liberal, fiscally conservatives.

I don't know if that growing crowd is all like minded though. "Socially liberal, fiscally conservative" means different things to different people. For example, is Obamacare a social issue or a fiscal issue? Welfare? Subsidized student loans? Housing?

Those are rhetorical questions because no matter what your view is, someone else who claims to be socially liberal but fiscally conservative sees it differently.

Are there any people who call themselves fiscally liberal, btw?

Edit: See, you're getting people like yourself, Rain Man, Flopnuts, and Dave Lane all claiming to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I could say the same thing about myself. That covers a pretty wide range of ideology. That kind of agreement is only possible when the words "socially liberal and fiscally conservative" have no clear meaning.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-27-2013, 11:17 AM
I don't know if that growing crowd is all like minded though. "Socially liberal, fiscally conservative" means different things to different people. For example, is Obamacare a social issue or a fiscal issue? Welfare? Subsidized student loans? Housing?

Those are rhetorical questions because no matter what your view is, someone else who claims to be socially liberal but fiscally conservative sees it differently.

Are there any people who call themselves fiscally liberal, btw?

Edit: See, you're getting people like yourself, Rain Man, Flopnuts, and Dave Lane all claiming to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I could say the same thing about myself. That covers a pretty wide range of ideology. That kind of agreement is only possible when the words "socially liberal and fiscally conservative" have no clear meaning.

Very good points. Great post. :clap:

chiefzilla1501
01-27-2013, 12:06 PM
I don't know if that growing crowd is all like minded though. "Socially liberal, fiscally conservative" means different things to different people. For example, is Obamacare a social issue or a fiscal issue? Welfare? Subsidized student loans? Housing?

Those are rhetorical questions because no matter what your view is, someone else who claims to be socially liberal but fiscally conservative sees it differently.

Are there any people who call themselves fiscally liberal, btw?

Edit: See, you're getting people like yourself, Rain Man, Flopnuts, and Dave Lane all claiming to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I could say the same thing about myself. That covers a pretty wide range of ideology. That kind of agreement is only possible when the words "socially liberal and fiscally conservative" have no clear meaning.

Fiscally conservative / socially liberal is a term I hear a lot. I always read "socially liberal" to talk about issues that don't have much financial impact. Civil rights, gay rights, abortion, etc....

Fiscal deals with financial impact and tends to be completely separate. Fiscal conservatives will say they want to limit government spending even if it positively impacts social groups but particularly for wasteful spending, whereas fiscally liberal will say that spending should be escalated and some of the more privileged should foot the bill.

I think the distinction is actually pretty crystal clear.

BucEyedPea
01-27-2013, 01:19 PM
Absolutely.

I'm just not a steer the ship of state off a cliff immediately type. 20% cut in Defense spending, 10% cut in all entitlements, General spending cuts of 3-4% a year for 3-4 years. You know, like sane responses to cutting the budget, oh wait.

But you believe in govt spending money during a recession. THAT is not fiscally conservative.

Furthermore, Ron Paul, although conservative personally, is willing to allow others to be socially liberal while being fiscally conservative and you consider him a loon and whack job. That says all.

patteeu
01-27-2013, 01:22 PM
Fiscally conservative / socially liberal is a term I hear a lot. I always read "socially liberal" to talk about issues that don't have much financial impact. Civil rights, gay rights, abortion, etc....

Fiscal deals with financial impact and tends to be completely separate. Fiscal conservatives will say they want to limit government spending even if it positively impacts social groups but particularly for wasteful spending, whereas fiscally liberal will say that spending should be escalated and some of the more privileged should foot the bill.

I think the distinction is actually pretty crystal clear.

I'll put my evidence (Dave Lane vs. Rain Man vs. Flopnuts vs. chiefzilla vs. me) up against your opinion about the clarity of the distinction any day.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-27-2013, 01:38 PM
I'll put my evidence (Dave Lane vs. Rain Man vs. Flopnuts vs. chiefzilla vs. me) up against your opinion about the clarity of the distinction any day.

I have to agree with Pat here. There's going to be a wide array of what fiscally conservative really is.

BucEyedPea
01-27-2013, 01:49 PM
I have to agree with Pat here. There's going to be a wide array of what fiscally conservative really is.

I agree with it too. Plus, some social issues do impact taxpayers. Like healthcare for govt workers etc.

KC native
01-27-2013, 01:59 PM
hmmmmm I'll just hit the major issues

1. End the drug war. Both sides love it. It makes them look tough on crime and gets police unions and prison builders on their side. Bonus points because it would reduce government spending dramatically.

2. No unnecessary wars. I'm not a pacifist. There are certain conflicts where we should use our military and others where shouldn't (Afghanistan vs Iraq). More bonus points for reducing government spending.

3. End corporate personhood. I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one. Neither side will do anything about that.

4. Publicly funded elections. No union contributions, no PAC or Super PAC money. We need to take the fundraising out of politics.

5. Reduce/eliminate corporate welfare. Special tax breaks are killing municipalities and federal government revenue. If it's a fledgling industry or actually needs subsidies that's fine but the race to the bottom needs to stop. Hey, more deficit reduction here.

6. Single payor health care like France's system. We spend entirely too much on healthcare for piss poor results.

7. Gay marriage. It's 2013, if you're against it, then you are fucking retard.

8. Civil rights. Our nation has been creeping more and more towards a police state since the introduction of the drug war. We need to place higher priority on privacy and the 4th amendment.

KC native
01-27-2013, 02:01 PM
Oh, and reduce defense spending. We spend way too much.

chiefzilla1501
01-27-2013, 02:11 PM
I have to agree with Pat here. There's going to be a wide array of what fiscally conservative really is.

The problem is that you're talking in absolutes. Like you have to oppose every single spending decision to be considered fiscal conservative. Or you have to support every single moral/religious stance like pro-life to be considered socially conservative.

We're talking about which way people tend to lean. There are extremes on either side of those (very staunch religious, or very staunch fiscal conservatism). There's also plenty of people who are more toward the middle, but the primary filter they use is, for example, should the government be spending on this?

Im socially liberal / fiscal conservative as a moderate. Because on more stances than not, I hate government spending. Even if on plenty of positions, I think government spending is absolutely justified (and I get that fiscal conservatism applies to more than just government spending).

BucEyedPea
01-27-2013, 02:15 PM
T

Im socially liberal / fiscal conservative as a moderate. Because on more stances than not, I hate government spending. Even if on plenty of positions, I think government spending is absolutely justified (and I get that fiscal conservatism applies to more than just government spending).
Moderate usually means a mix from both sides but it does not have to divide along social or fiscal lines.

If your justified areas for spending are not based on Constitution though, then it's not fiscal conservativism.

There's another area besides social versus fiscal— and that is expansion of the central govt's powers. One of the main ideas behind our Constitution was to limit it's expansion and giving it more money doesn't do that. That giving it access to money easily would eventually reduce liberty.

So moderate's today, are in the BIG govt camp.

RNR
01-27-2013, 02:24 PM
Oh, and reduce defense spending. We spend way too much.

There could be huge cuts here without putting the troops or the country at risk. However there are too many buddy buddy deals involved. When defense is cut it is aimed at the wrong places~

suzzer99
01-27-2013, 02:26 PM
I think food stamps should be much more of a last resort than how they are currently being implemented. I vehemently oppose auto-signing up people who may be down on their luck, or just make most of their money under the table (ie - strippers).

While I don't think the Iraq war was justified, I do recognize that in the long run it will probably be a huge boost to our interests to have a "base" and major ally in the region.

I think drone strikes are probably a necessary evil, considering the cost of letting that whole region go to the Taliban. I'm willing to let history be the judge on that much more than my armchair QBing liberal friends.

I think public sector unions are a terrible idea whose time is up.

I'm all for charter schools and think most large urban districts should be disintegrated.

I'd vote for Arnie if he could run for president.

I think the SEC does more harm than good due to regulatory capture.

BigRedChief
01-27-2013, 02:56 PM
While I don't think the Iraq war was justified, I do recognize that in the long run it will probably be a huge boost to our interests to have a "base" and major ally in the region. Your in a dream world there. We have 200 troops in Iraq and no bases. What the hell are you thinking?

Google is your friend

Bahrain has the 3rd largest USA Naval base in the world. It can handle 2 complete Aircraft carrier groups at the same time.

Qatar has the biggest and best base in the middle east.

These will remain our "friends" forever. They are rich and have no way to defend themselves against their Arab neighbors that would want to take their treasure. By our mere presence, we are the security guards guarding their treasure that cant be replaced.

KC native
01-27-2013, 03:05 PM
There could be huge cuts here without putting the troops or the country at risk. However there are too many buddy buddy deals involved. When defense is cut it is aimed at the wrong places~

Yes, the defense industry is our largest social jobs program in the country. We spend entirely too much on failed weapon systems. Weapon systems that the military has said they never wanted or needed. Etc

KC native
01-27-2013, 03:08 PM
I think food stamps should be much more of a last resort than how they are currently being implemented. I vehemently oppose auto-signing up people who may be down on their luck, or just make most of their money under the table (ie - strippers).

I think the SEC does more harm than good due to regulatory capture.

I'm fine with food stamps as it is. It mitigates damage to kids done by parents who don't have their priorities straight. But no we shouldn't be autosigning people up. I wasn't aware that was being done.

On the SEC, I wouldn't say more harm than good but regulatory capture is over the top right now. If our regulators made better salaries, we would see less regulatory capture. The SEC is cracking down on insider trading currently. They are finally going after the big boys on that now. It's nice. Under Bush's SEC they only went after small fries.

RNR
01-27-2013, 03:09 PM
Yes, the defense industry is our largest social jobs program in the country. We spend entirely too much on failed weapon systems. Weapon systems that the military has said they never wanted or needed. Etc

That and contracts/ contractors performing jobs troops can do just as effectively for well less than half the cost~

Direckshun
01-27-2013, 03:35 PM
I don't agree with the modern Republican party on hardly anything. The Tea Party and I are miles apart on just about everything.

I've come to appreciate a ton of ideologically conservative ideas that the Republican Party has shunned, however.

chiefzilla1501
01-27-2013, 03:46 PM
Moderate usually means a mix from both sides but it does not have to divide along social or fiscal lines.

If your justified areas for spending are not based on Constitution though, then it's not fiscal conservativism.

There's another area besides social versus fiscal— and that is expansion of the central govt's powers. One of the main ideas behind our Constitution was to limit it's expansion and giving it more money doesn't do that. That giving it access to money easily would eventually reduce liberty.

So moderate's today, are in the BIG govt camp.

The idea that if you don't believe in rubber-stamping spending on constitutional principals, that makes you big government is silly.

I label myself as fiscally conservative because I believe every spending initiative should go through a sniff test, and that that has to go beyond profit/loss and ROI. I don't mind government spending as long as there's a clear benefit and as long as it can't be done more efficiently in the private sector. That means I reject probably about 3/4 of spending on principal. Only an extreme fiscal conservative would label that position as being pro-big government.

RNR
01-27-2013, 03:46 PM
I don't agree with the modern Republican party on hardly anything. The Tea Party and I are miles apart on just about everything.

I've come to appreciate a ton of ideologically conservative ideas that the Republican Party has shunned, however.

LMAO

suzzer99
01-27-2013, 04:01 PM
Your in a dream world there. We have 200 troops in Iraq and no bases. What the hell are you thinking?

Google is your friend

Bahrain has the 3rd largest USA Naval base in the world. It can handle 2 complete Aircraft carrier groups at the same time.

Qatar has the biggest and best base in the middle east.

These will remain our "friends" forever. They are rich and have no way to defend themselves against their Arab neighbors that would want to take their treasure. By our mere presence, we are the security guards guarding their treasure that cant be replaced.

Don't we have some 6000 embassy security personnel? Hence the quotes around "base". I never meant to imply we have a stategic base to launch operations from. Wrt to Qatar and Bahrain, having Iraq as an ally in the region helps us in different ways, but still very valuable.

suzzer99
01-27-2013, 04:03 PM
I'm fine with food stamps as it is. It mitigates damage to kids done by parents who don't have their priorities straight. But no we shouldn't be autosigning people up. I wasn't aware that was being done.

On the SEC, I wouldn't say more harm than good but regulatory capture is over the top right now. If our regulators made better salaries, we would see less regulatory capture. The SEC is cracking down on insider trading currently. They are finally going after the big boys on that now. It's nice. Under Bush's SEC they only went after small fries.

It doesn't matter how much you pay the SEC regulators if they know there's a $200 million payday waiting for them at the end of their tenure. The only way I can see to eradicate this is major restrictions on the revolving door. Something like you can't work in the financial industry for 20 years or longer after leaving the SEC.

suzzer99
01-27-2013, 04:11 PM
Pro-weed
Pro-life
Pro-Capital punishment
Pro-Gun. No more new laws. Enforce what is already there.
Homosexuals are humans. They have just as much right to be as miserable as heteros.

Small government. Very small.

How do your first two items equate to small government?

Ignoring abortion for now until you clarify your stance, I don't see out any small government champion can be for capital punishment. It costs more than putting people away for life, much more. It's also never been shown to be an actual deterrent to violent crime.

I don't have a problem philosophically with putting someone to death who has committed a heinous crime. But pragmatically, the death penalty just makes no sense. Plus there's always a chance new technology will come out and prove a person innocent after being jailed for 30 years. It's happened hundreds of times with DNA. I think those people should have a chance at life.

BigRedChief
01-27-2013, 04:19 PM
Don't we have some 6000 embassy security personnel? Hence the quotes around "base". I never meant to imply we have a stategic base to launch operations from. Wrt to Qatar and Bahrain, having Iraq as an ally in the region helps us in different ways, but still very valuable.They are not allowed to leave the embassy armed. A violation could result in them kicking us out. They don;t need us anymore.

crispystl420
01-27-2013, 06:53 PM
[QUOTE=Rain Man;9353864]If it's a social issue, I lean left. If it's a fiscal issue, I lean right. I really need a new American political party to vote for.[/QU


This is me. I knew there was a reason I got along with you.

AustinChief
01-27-2013, 08:08 PM
If it's a social issue, I lean left. If it's a fiscal issue, I lean right. I really need a new American political party to vote for.

All about this. And I see more and more people going this way every year yet we have no party unless we want to vote for "fringe" parties like the Libertarians.

AustinChief
01-27-2013, 08:11 PM
Yes, the defense industry is our largest social jobs program in the country. We spend entirely too much on failed weapon systems. Weapon systems that the military has said they never wanted or needed. Etc

This was something Rumsfeld should be remembered for taking a stand on and getting absolutely blasted for. As much as he got done in this regard, it wasn't enough. Still far too much waste in this regard.

NewChief
01-27-2013, 08:12 PM
I'm bipartisan. I dislike both parties. I just dislike the Dems slightly less than the Republicans. That being said, I'm usually more pissed off at the Dems because I, for some stupid reason, actually expect them to occasionally do something with which I agree.

suzzer99
01-27-2013, 08:14 PM
This was something Rumsfeld should be remembered for taking a stand on and getting absolutely blasted for. As much as he got done in this regard, it wasn't enough. Still far too much waste in this regard.

F-35 says hi

BucEyedPea
01-27-2013, 08:26 PM
The idea that if you don't believe in rubber-stamping spending on constitutional principals, that makes you big government is silly.

Our Framers would, fortunately, disagree with you.

I label myself as fiscally conservative because I believe every spending initiative should go through a sniff test, and that that has to go beyond profit/loss and ROI. I don't mind government spending as long as there's a clear benefit and as long as it can't be done more efficiently in the private sector. That means I reject probably about 3/4 of spending on principal. Only an extreme fiscal conservative would label that position as being pro-big government.

Like I said, BIG govt. My sniff test is the Constitution. Since yours is not, then yes, you are for BIG govt. I've seen you defend corporatism too.

KC native
01-27-2013, 10:01 PM
It doesn't matter how much you pay the SEC regulators if they know there's a $200 million payday waiting for them at the end of their tenure. The only way I can see to eradicate this is major restrictions on the revolving door. Something like you can't work in the financial industry for 20 years or longer after leaving the SEC.

The guys pulling that kind of cheese aren't working/have worked at the SEC. They stay in private sector the whole time.

There aren't too many guys pulling down multimillions a year. As a whole, finance is overpaid but the guys at the very top (some of whom have earned it) skew it.

Aries Walker
01-28-2013, 06:43 AM
My main point of differentiation with my party is regarding abortion. I've gotten to the point where I don't even bring it up with my family or my lefter-leaning friends any more. There are other, less volatile issues for which I lean moderate-Republicanny, like welfare and preservation of the nuclear family and stuff, but that's the big one.

FishingRod
01-28-2013, 08:49 AM
[QUOTE=Rain Man;9353864]If it's a social issue, I lean left. If it's a fiscal issue, I lean right. I really need a new American political party to vote for.[/QU


This is me. I knew there was a reason I got along with you.


Put me in for This x 3

Amnorix
01-28-2013, 08:55 AM
If it's a social issue, I lean left. If it's a fiscal issue, I lean right. I really need a new American political party to vote for.


I would gladly join because that's where I am.

BucEyedPea
01-28-2013, 10:28 AM
I would gladly join because that's where I am.

No you're not on the right. You're a dyed in the wool Keynesian—that's central planning, loosely, of our economy and involves not just printing money but govt spending it to allegedly prevent a Depression. You're just not as bad as men like Bernanke or Krugman.

BigChiefTablet
01-28-2013, 01:13 PM
If it's a social issue, I lean left. If it's a fiscal issue, I lean right. I really need a new American political party to vote for.

It's called Libertarian.

RNR
01-28-2013, 03:08 PM
It's called Libertarian.

That's a reach~

BucEyedPea
01-28-2013, 03:10 PM
It's called Libertarian.

Not necessarily. On the surface it is...but scratch some of those who claim that description and more often you'll find a statist. Depends on how much government they support. A libertarian is a mini-anarchist.