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View Full Version : U.S. Issues IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family


petegz28
02-01-2013, 07:38 AM
(CNSNews.com) – In a final regulation issued Wednesday, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) assumed that under Obamacare the cheapest health insurance plan available in 2016 for a family will cost $20,000 for the year.

Under Obamacare, Americans will be required to buy health insurance or pay a penalty to the IRS.

The IRS's assumption that the cheapest plan for a family will cost $20,000 per year is found in examples the IRS gives to help people understand how to calculate the penalty they will need to pay the government if they do not buy a mandated health plan.

The examples point to families of four and families of five, both of which the IRS expects in its assumptions to pay a minimum of $20,000 per year for a bronze plan.

“The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000,” the regulation says.

Bronze will be the lowest tier health-insurance plan available under Obamacare--after Silver, Gold, and Platinum. Under the law, the penalty for not buying health insurance is supposed to be capped at either the annual average Bronze premium, 2.5 percent of taxable income, or $2,085.00 per family in 2016.

In the new final rules published Wednesday, IRS set in law the rules for implementing the penalty Americans must pay if they fail to obey Obamacare's mandate to buy insurance.

To help illustrate these rules, the IRS presented examples of different situations families might find themselves in.

In the examples, the IRS assumes that families of five who are uninsured would need to pay an average of $20,000 per year to purchase a Bronze plan in 2016.

Using the conditions laid out in the regulations, the IRS calculates that a family earning $120,000 per year that did not buy insurance would need to pay a "penalty" (a word the IRS still uses despite the Supreme Court ruling that it is in fact a "tax") of $2,400 in 2016.

For those wondering how clear the IRS's clarifications of this new "penalty" rule are, here is one of the actual examples the IRS gives:

“Example 3. Family without minimum essential coverage.

"(i) In 2016, Taxpayers H and J are married and file a joint return. H and J have three children: K, age 21, L, age 15, and M, age 10. No member of the family has minimum essential coverage for any month in 2016. H and J’s household income is $120,000. H and J’s applicable filing threshold is $24,000. The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000.

"(ii) For each month in 2016, under paragraphs (b)(2)(ii) and (b)(2)(iii) of this section, the applicable dollar amount is $2,780 (($695 x 3 adults) + (($695/2) x 2 children)). Under paragraph (b)(2)(i) of this section, the flat dollar amount is $2,085 (the lesser of $2,780 and $2,085 ($695 x 3)). Under paragraph (b)(3) of this section, the excess income amount is $2,400 (($120,000 - $24,000) x 0.025). Therefore, under paragraph (b)(1) of this section, the monthly penalty amount is $200 (the greater of $173.75 ($2,085/12) or $200 ($2,400/12)).

"(iii) The sum of the monthly penalty amounts is $2,400 ($200 x 12). The sum of the monthly national average bronze plan premiums is $20,000 ($20,000/12 x 12). Therefore, under paragraph (a) of this section, the shared responsibility payment imposed on H and J for 2016 is $2,400 (the lesser of $2,400 or $20,000).”

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-cheapest-obamacare-plan-will-be-20000-family

stonedstooge
02-01-2013, 07:41 AM
Will the 11 million illegals have this taken out of their checks?

durtyrute
02-01-2013, 07:47 AM
If they want government sponsored healthcare why don't they stop spending eleventy billion dollars a year on lasers and invisible planes and just pay for the shit themselves?

Garcia Bronco
02-01-2013, 08:03 AM
wow, that's about 16k more than a family of the same size would pay today at my company with a 2k deductable.

Dayze
02-01-2013, 08:04 AM
If they want government sponsored healthcare why don't they stop spending eleventy billion dollars a year on lasers and invisible planes and just pay for the shit themselves?

and all the world policing and nation building. the defense budget is retarded.

more like the world police budget.

Direckshun
02-01-2013, 08:05 AM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=1275

HemiEd
02-01-2013, 08:21 AM
Wait, what? That shit was supposed to be free!

stonedstooge
02-01-2013, 08:27 AM
Wait, what? That shit was supposed to be free!

Only to the illegals

HemiEd
02-01-2013, 08:31 AM
Only to the illegals

True, and that is not a change. They get help now when needed.

mnchiefsguy
02-01-2013, 08:31 AM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=1275

Nice try at deflection. 20k is 20k whether it is linked to on Drudge or not.

So much for Obama not raising taxes on the lower and middle class. Should be calling his plan Obamataxyourassoffcare.

stonedstooge
02-01-2013, 08:33 AM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=1275
Should have circled the 3rd item as well. Added to the Welcome Wagon package for the illegals

Bwana
02-01-2013, 08:47 AM
Wait, what? That shit was supposed to be free!

Yeah it's a package deal with the free cell phones. :whackit:

alpha_omega
02-01-2013, 08:54 AM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=1275

Just my opinion, but that schtick is getting old.

Silock
02-01-2013, 08:59 AM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=1275

Attacking the source doesn't change the argument. You know that.

alpha_omega
02-01-2013, 09:01 AM
Also....are they really going to call it "Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum?" sounds more like a car-care package.

Direckshun
02-01-2013, 09:01 AM
Just my opinion, but that schtick is getting old.

I agree. Pete's total reliance on Drudge is an old routine.

mnchiefsguy
02-01-2013, 09:01 AM
Attacking the source doesn't change the argument. You know that.

In the interest of posting original sources, here is the link to the IRS paper detailing this massive tax increase:

http://www.irs.gov/PUP/newsroom/REG-148500-12%20FR.pdf

Direckshun
02-01-2013, 09:02 AM
Attacking the source doesn't change the argument. You know that.

I'm pretty sure orange was criticized on this website for frequently linking to Huffington Post.

Yet I'm supposed to give two shits about CNS News.

Look, I'm sensitive to the issue of Obamacare, its strengths and its shortcomings. But I don't give two shits about CNS.

Frazod
02-01-2013, 09:03 AM
I agree. Pete's total reliance on Drudge is an old routine.

As opposed to your reliance on every fucktarded, completely biased liberal communist site you can find? Seriously, fuck you.

Direckshun
02-01-2013, 09:03 AM
As opposed to your reliance on every ****tarded, completely biased liberal communist site you can find? Seriously, **** you.

You are adorable.

Frazod
02-01-2013, 09:04 AM
You are adorable.

And you're a festering pile of welfare-sucking shit.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:05 AM
What a stunningly deceptive thread. Pete, you're a joke.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:05 AM
Attacking the source doesn't change the argument. You know that.

What's the argument?

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:07 AM
By the way, if you are in the situation where you have three kids and an income of $120,000, and don't purchase insurance from the market, you're irresponsible. I would penalize you more than the $2400 you would be penalized.

Direckshun
02-01-2013, 09:08 AM
And you're a festering pile of welfare-sucking shit.

LMAO

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:11 AM
Also....are they really going to call it "Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum?" sounds more like a car-care package.

It's good to have for people like pete and frazod who have the literacy levels of a 6th grade almost-made-the-honor-roll-student.

Frazod
02-01-2013, 09:13 AM
It's good to have for people like pete and frazod who have the literacy levels of a 6th grade almost-made-the-honor-roll-student.

Nice to see your swelling still hasn't receded. LMAO

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:15 AM
Nice to see your swelling still hasn't receded. LMAO

I want to see you try to explain the opening post in three sentences.

petegz28
02-01-2013, 09:16 AM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=1275

So where was this when you started a thread about a story that was on Drudege the other day, douchebag?

Frazod
02-01-2013, 09:17 AM
I want to see you try to explain the opening post in three sentences.

I'm sorry if you don't understand the subject matter, sweetheart, but I already have enough little snot-nosed puppy lawyers to think for without adding another one.

petegz28
02-01-2013, 09:17 AM
What a stunningly deceptive thread. Pete, you're a joke.

Takes one to know one, I'm rubber you're glue, sticks and stones...

petegz28
02-01-2013, 09:22 AM
It's good to have for people like pete and frazod who have the literacy levels of a 6th grade almost-made-the-honor-roll-student.

Ah, Jensen, how I have missed you telling us all how smart you are....:thumb:

Garcia Bronco
02-01-2013, 09:28 AM
Also....are they really going to call it "Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum?" sounds more like a car-care package.

It sounds like a class system to me.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:31 AM
I'm sorry if you don't understand the subject matter, sweetheart, but I already have enough little snot-nosed puppy lawyers to think for without adding another one.

That was a fun dodge.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:32 AM
Ah, Jensen, how I have missed you telling us all how smart you are....:thumb:

Explain the significance of the thread you started.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:32 AM
It sounds like a class system to me.

Yeah, no such things exist in insurance plans currently. Dammit Obama!

petegz28
02-01-2013, 09:36 AM
Explain the significance of the thread you started.

I just wanted to see you bitch and whine.........thanks LMAO

Frazod
02-01-2013, 09:37 AM
That was a fun dodge.

It sure is funny when you little liberal cunts try to give people homework assignments. LMAO

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:44 AM
It sure is funny when you little liberal ****s try to give people homework assignments. LMAO

This isn't homework. Consider this just another way of avoiding doing the work for the lawyers who pay your wage.

I'll make it even simpler for you. Multiple choice. Even a monkey has a 25% chance of getting this correct.

In Pete's opening post, $20K is mentioned. What is the significance of the $20K?
A. It is an estimate of a self-insured, unsubsidized, bronze plan for a family of 5 people
B. It is the estimate of the cheapest plan per family (Pete's implication).
C. It is the estimated penalty a family of 5 must pay for not purchasing health insurance
D. It is an estimate of the lowest amount health insurance will cost you personally

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:45 AM
I just wanted to see you bitch and whine.........thanks LMAO

So you intentionally started a deceptive thread for the purpose of me calling out your low character? Is this the purpose of most of your threads?

suzzer99
02-01-2013, 09:46 AM
wow, that's about 16k more than a family of the same size would pay today at my company with a 2k deductable.

You do realize your employer is probably paying two thirds of that, and getting a giant tax break for doing so, right?

petegz28
02-01-2013, 09:46 AM
This isn't homework. Consider this just another way of avoiding doing the work for the lawyers who pay your wage.

I'll make it even simpler for you. Multiple choice. Even a monkey has a 25% chance of getting this correct.

In Pete's opening post, $20K is mentioned. What is the significance of the $20K?
A. It is an estimate of a self-insured, unsubsidized, bronze plan for a family of 5 people
B. It is the estimate of the cheapest plan per family (Pete's implication).
C. It is the estimated penalty a family of 5 must pay for not purchasing health insurance
D. It is an estimate of the lowest amount health insurance will cost you personally

You're not a very good student and even a worse lawyer. I never implied anything. I posted the thread as is, title included.

You get a big ole' F

petegz28
02-01-2013, 09:47 AM
You do realize your employer is probably paying two thirds of that, and getting a giant tax break for doing so, right?

Actually a lot of companies, including the law firm I left in May, will be moving towards giving you a flat amount of $1500 or so and offering nothing but high-deductible plans.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:48 AM
You're not a very good student and even a worse lawyer. I never implied anything. I posted the thread as is, title included.

You get a big ole' F

So you're not implying that you agree that the cheapest Obamacare plan will cost $20K per family?

Do you really expect us to believe that?

petegz28
02-01-2013, 09:48 AM
So you intentionally started a deceptive thread for the purpose of me calling out your low character? Is this the purpose of most of your threads?

I posted the thread as story as is. You already failed once saying I implied something. Don't flatter yourself so much.

petegz28
02-01-2013, 09:50 AM
So you're not implying that you agree that the cheapest Obamacare plan will be $20K per family?

Do you really expect us to believe that?

Again, you are going to make a terrible litigator. Let me ask you this, does a reporter have to have a specific take on every story they report? And moreso is their take relevant to reporting a story at all?

suzzer99
02-01-2013, 09:50 AM
Actually a lot of companies, including the law firm I left in May, will be moving towards giving you a flat amount of $1500 or so and offering nothing but high-deductible plans.

Which will probably work out great and give you more choices, now that you don't have to worry about being denied for pre-existing conditions on the open market.

petegz28
02-01-2013, 09:50 AM
Which will probably work out great and give you more choices, now that you don't have to worry about being denied for pre-existing conditions on the open market.

And will actually cost a lot more in the long run should you have to use your insurance.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:50 AM
I posted the thread as story as is. You already failed once saying I implied something. Don't flatter yourself so much.

So you do realize that the newstory itself is being deceptive, then? And then you just wanted to forward a deceptive newstory?

petegz28
02-01-2013, 09:51 AM
So you do realize that the newstory itself is being deceptive, then? And then you just wanted to forward a deceptive newstory?

Take it up with the author of the story, counselor.

suzzer99
02-01-2013, 09:51 AM
And will actually cost a lot more in the long run should you have to use your insurance.

Not if you choose to spend your $1500 on a low deductible plan. Or do you mean $1500 a year?

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:52 AM
Again, you are going to make a terrible litigator. Let me ask you this, does a reporter have to have a specific take on every story they report? And moreso is their take relevant to reporting a story at all?

So you think that the website wasn't intending to imply that the cheapest Obamacare plan will cost 20K per family?

Garcia Bronco
02-01-2013, 09:52 AM
Which will probably work out great and give you more choices, now that you don't have to worry about being denied for pre-existing conditions on the open market.

Being a member of a group plan...he would not be denied because of pre-existing conditions prior to the AHCA.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:53 AM
Take it up with the author of the story, counselor.

But you're now implying that you know the story is deceptive, aren't you?

petegz28
02-01-2013, 09:53 AM
Not if you spend your $1500 on a low deductible plan.

Those low deductible plans cost more than $1500. I know people who work for companies that have what are considered great benefits and pay $400 or so a month for low deductible insurace. That is slightly more than $1500 a year and the company is paying a good deal of the additional costs as well.

petegz28
02-01-2013, 09:53 AM
But you're now implying that you know the story is deceptive, aren't you?

Nope. Try again.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:54 AM
Nope. Try again.

Explain the significance of your thread, pete.

suzzer99
02-01-2013, 09:55 AM
Being a member of a group plan...he would not be denied because of pre-existing conditions prior to the AHCA.

What I thought he was saying is that they gave him the choice of a high deductible plan, or getting his own insurance and receiving a credit. That would actually be a pretty good option - as the big drawback in the past was that if you try to get your own insurance you have to worry about pre-existing conditions. But now it's like everyone is on a big group plan, so I wouldn't be surprised if some companies start doing that.

suzzer99
02-01-2013, 09:56 AM
Those low deductible plans cost more than $1500. I know people who work for companies that have what are considered great benefits and pay $400 or so a month for low deductible insurace. That is slightly more than $1500 a year and the company is paying a good deal of the additional costs as well.

Yes of course they are, because they get a big tax break. It's one of the many ways our current health insurance situation is completely screwed up. It does everything to favor large corporations, and screw over small businesses and individuals. Obamacare is at least a step towards leveling the playing field.

petegz28
02-01-2013, 09:57 AM
Yes of course they are, because they get a big tax break. It's one of the many ways our current health insurance situation is completely screwed up. It does everything to favor large corporations, and screw over small businesses and individuals. Obamacare is at least a step towards leveling the playing field.

Parts of Obamacare level it out. Parts of it make it worse for everyone.

petegz28
02-01-2013, 09:58 AM
Explain the significance of your thread, pete.

Um, no...how's that, smartass?

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:58 AM
Parts of Obamacare level it out. Parts of it make it worse for everyone.

Nobody is going to confuse you for knowing what you're talking about when it comes to Obamacare.

RNR
02-01-2013, 09:59 AM
Again, you are going to make a terrible litigator. Let me ask you this, does a reporter have to have a specific take on every story they report? And moreso is their take relevant to reporting a story at all?

I disagree he will fit in perfectly. Court is not setup in a debate format. It is all about winning over the jury. Saying things for effect and redirecting, diverting from harmful testimony. Saying things knowing there will be a sustained objection. It is nothing like a face to face debate. Like him or not the kid can argue~

petegz28
02-01-2013, 09:59 AM
Nobody is going to confuse you for knowing what you're talking about when it comes to Obamacare.

Gee....you are too cool for school

petegz28
02-01-2013, 10:00 AM
I disagree he will fit in perfectly. Court is not setup in a debate format. It is all about winning over the jury. Saying things for effect and redirecting, diverting from harmful testimony. Saying things knowing there will be a sustained objection. It is nothing like a face to face debate. Like him or not the kid can argue~

Well I will give you that. He can argue.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 10:01 AM
Um, no...how's that, smartass?

That's exactly what I expected. Asking you that causes you to evaluate your life on this board as a regurgitating bag of vomit for right-wing hysteria. And you probably find it discomforting to realize that you can't think for yourself.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 10:02 AM
This isn't about arguing. It's about honesty and integrity. And Pete has very little of either. And a huge part of that is for reasons like this thread represent.

Frazod
02-01-2013, 10:03 AM
This isn't homework. Consider this just another way of avoiding doing the work for the lawyers who pay your wage.

I'll make it even simpler for you. Multiple choice. Even a monkey has a 25% chance of getting this correct.

In Pete's opening post, $20K is mentioned. What is the significance of the $20K?
A. It is an estimate of a self-insured, unsubsidized, bronze plan for a family of 5 people
B. It is the estimate of the cheapest plan per family (Pete's implication).
C. It is the estimated penalty a family of 5 must pay for not purchasing health insurance
D. It is an estimate of the lowest amount health insurance will cost you personally

I'm sorry, I was busy. You seem to have plenty of time on your hands, though. Slow day at Littlefish & Associates, I take it?

petegz28
02-01-2013, 10:03 AM
That's exactly what I expected. Asking you that causes you to evaluate your life on this board as a regurgitating bag of vomit for right-wing hysteria. And you probably find it discomforting to realize that you can't think for yourself.

Hmmm, I wouldn't know....I mean since I can't think for myself and all....:shake:

petegz28
02-01-2013, 10:04 AM
This isn't about arguing. It's about honesty and integrity. And Pete has very little of either. And a huge part of that is for reasons like this thread represent.

the kid if kids has spoken.....:thumb:

La literatura
02-01-2013, 10:04 AM
I'm sorry, I was busy. You seem to have plenty of time on your hands, though. Slow day at Littlefish & Associates, I take it?

Take your time and read the options. Ask a lawyer to help you out if you can't understand one.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 10:06 AM
Hmmm, I wouldn't know....I mean since I can't think for myself and all....:shake:

Don't feel too bad. Just try to completely change your pathetic self. The sooner the better.

Frazod
02-01-2013, 10:07 AM
Take your time and read the options. Ask a lawyer to help you out if you can't understand one.

This is much more fun. How much longer until you throw another one of infantile temper tantrums? The last one was epic. LMAO

petegz28
02-01-2013, 10:07 AM
I'm sorry, I was busy. You seem to have plenty of time on your hands, though. Slow day at Littlefish & Associates, I take it?

I think Jensen might be onto something here. Do you think there could be a possible lack of integrity in our media? LMAO

I'm just glad he is here to educate us all on such matters.

petegz28
02-01-2013, 10:07 AM
Don't feel too bad. Just try to completely change your pathetic self. The sooner the better.

Thanks for advice, kid....:thumb:

La literatura
02-01-2013, 10:08 AM
This is much more fun. How much longer until you throw another one of infantile temper tantrums? The last one was epic. LMAO

It depends on how quickly you say something completely stupid. Knowing you, it won't be long.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 10:09 AM
Thanks for advice, kid....:thumb:

"Out of the mouths of babes. . . ."

petegz28
02-01-2013, 10:09 AM
It depends on how quickly you say something completely stupid. Knowing you, it won't be long.

Well at least we now have you agreeing that you throw temper tantrums. The next step is teaching you to act more like a big-boy instead of throwing said tantrums.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 10:09 AM
I think Jensen might be onto something here. Do you think there could be a possible lack of integrity in our media? LMAO

I'm just glad he is here to educate us all on such matters.

I don't think right-wing bullshit is "our media" but it certainly seems to be your media.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 10:11 AM
Well at least we now have you agreeing that you throw temper tantrums. The next step is teaching you to act more like a big-boy instead of throwing said tantrums.

You do realize that your reputation on this site, aside from being a right-wing mouthpiece, is for throwing temper tantrums about sports, correct?

suzzer99
02-01-2013, 10:12 AM
Parts of Obamacare level it out. Parts of it make it worse for everyone.

The only people who will have it significantly worse under Obamacare are the free riders who currently have de facto health insurance without paying for it. Although in the long run they may be better off as well for not having to go bankrupt over medical bills.

If the Republicans had implemented the ACA as an alternative to single-payer - as they proposed to in 1994 when the Heritage Foundation came up with the idea as a solution to the free rider problem - we'd call it Newtcare, and most of you on this forum would be fine with it.

Frazod
02-01-2013, 10:15 AM
It depends on how quickly you say something completely stupid. Knowing you, it won't be long.

By stupid, would that be like you getting all snippy because I'm not defending the subject matter of a thread that somebody else posted, all because you went all white knight defending your girlfriend Deflecshun?

La literatura
02-01-2013, 10:18 AM
By stupid, would that be like you getting all snippy because I'm not defending the subject matter of a thread that somebody else posted, all because you went all white knight defending your girlfriend Deflecshun?

By stupid, I mean a typical idea that you form in your mind. Or, your failure to come up with an answer to my multiple choice question. You're on the clock, man! (I mean my clock, not your actually job's clock, which I don't think anyone actually expects you to follow)

CoMoChief
02-01-2013, 10:21 AM
People are just fucking stupid if they really thought that this plan would:

Make insurance premiums cheaper across the table

Allow more coverage for those who are sick and poor

Wouldn't cost American taxpayers a dime

Frazod
02-01-2013, 10:24 AM
By stupid, I mean a typical idea that you form in your mind. Or, your failure to come up with an answer to my multiple choice question. You're on the clock, man! (I mean my clock, not your actually job's clock)

FRAZOD WON'T ANSWER MY QUESTION!!!!! MOMMY!!!!!!

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Health/ht_shock_060727_ssv.jpg

alpha_omega
02-01-2013, 10:25 AM
The only people who will have it significantly worse under Obamacare are the free riders who currently have de facto health insurance without paying for it.

Such as who? could you be more specific?

Garcia Bronco
02-01-2013, 10:27 AM
What I thought he was saying is that they gave him the choice of a high deductible plan, or getting his own insurance and receiving a credit. That would actually be a pretty good option - as the big drawback in the past was that if you try to get your own insurance you have to worry about pre-existing conditions. But now it's like everyone is on a big group plan, so I wouldn't be surprised if some companies start doing that.

Mine has gone to a HDP and LDP plan, but the difference in deductible is so small and the cost so great that you might as well go with the HDP. Compound that with a well stocked HSA and the deductible no longer matters for me. As you know, the AHCA has made it illegal for heath insurance companies to deny individuals, just like group plans, for pre-existing conditions.

I think what people often forget in group plans that even though you pay a co-pay, premiums, and deductibles is that it was still subsidized by the company. Few realize that they are not paying full price on a company plan.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 10:28 AM
FRAZOD WON'T ANSWER MY QUESTION!!!!! MOMMY!!!!!!

I'm not sure it's a question of "will and won't" but rather, willful ignorance.

Frazod
02-01-2013, 10:32 AM
I'm not sure it's a question of "will and won't" but rather, willful ignorance.

Either that, or being on the clock of some pampered pissant cunt means absolutely nothing to me.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 10:35 AM
Either that, or being on the clock of some pampered pissant **** means absolutely nothing to me.

And that explains why you spend the work days doing, well, this.

suzzer99
02-01-2013, 10:36 AM
Such as who? could you be more specific?

For example: someone in their 20s with no health insurance, who if they get in a car wreck or get a serious disease, are going to rack up a huge bill and then not pay for it. That money comes out of all of our health insurance and health care costs. I personally know several people who fit this description.

On the other side of the people who will be massively helped are people like my uncle. He was a general contractor who had his own private insurance. He fell off a ladder and shattered both of his ankles. The insurance paid for the surgery, but then immediately jacked up his rates 4 times. He's been forced to either take corporate jobs, or risk going without insurance ever since. The ACA is going to be a godsend for him. The really funny thing is, he's had almost no complications from the surgery, and is extremely healthy. But because he has pins in his ankles and is over 50 now, he's basically uninsurable on the private insurance market.

He's not asking for a handout, all he wants is the same access to health care that people who work for large corporations get. Or for that matter – people in every other developed nation on earth, and Massachusetts and Hawaii, and people over 65, and people who are indigent in this country. People who work for very small businesses (who often can't in for afford group insurance, especially if someone who works there is actually sick) or are self-employed, and aren't married to someone with good insurance, are in the donut hole. They get completely screwed over by our current healthcare system.

Frazod
02-01-2013, 10:37 AM
And that explains why you spend the work days doing, well, this.

And your doing it makes perfect sense, since your Uncle Billy runs your firm, right?

La literatura
02-01-2013, 10:41 AM
And your doing it makes perfect sense, since your Uncle Billy runs your firm, right?

Oh, I'm glad to help you sort out the confusion. See, I'm a law student, which is different than an actual lawyer who you work for. The actual lawyers who pay for your unproductive ass have actually graduated from law school and passed the bar, which I haven't had the opportunity to do yet.

Frazod
02-01-2013, 11:00 AM
Oh, I'm glad to help you sort out the confusion. See, I'm a law student, which is different than an actual lawyer who you work for. The actual lawyers who pay for your unproductive ass have actually graduated from law school and passed the bar, which I haven't had the opportunity to do yet.

Sorry, I guess you're just a pre-snot-nosed puppy lawyer, assuming your stupid ass ever makes it that far.

Next time I'm driving through Iowa I'll look for you behind the counter while I'm getting gas. LMAO

La literatura
02-01-2013, 11:04 AM
Sorry, I guess you're just a pre-snot-nosed puppy lawyer, assuming your stupid ass ever makes it that far.

Next time I'm driving through Iowa I'll look for you behind the counter while I'm getting gas. LMAO

I warmly invite you to spend a lot of time doing that. That sounds as productive as your typical work day.

Detoxing
02-01-2013, 11:18 AM
Should have circled the 3rd item as well. Added to the Welcome Wagon package for the illegals

It says immigrants, not Illegals.

Learn to read.

petegz28
02-01-2013, 11:47 AM
You do realize that your reputation on this site, aside from being a right-wing mouthpiece, is for throwing temper tantrums about sports, correct?

You do realize I don't give a shit, right? Obviously not.

Comrade Crapski
02-01-2013, 12:44 PM
I'm pretty sure orange was criticized on this website for frequently linking to Huffington Post.

Yet I'm supposed to give two shits about CNS News.

Look, I'm sensitive to the issue of Obamacare, its strengths and its shortcomings. But I don't give two shits about CNS.

Fuck off, scumbag.

cosmo20002
02-01-2013, 12:45 PM
So you intentionally started a deceptive thread for the purpose of me calling out your low character? Is this the purpose of most of your threads?

In the defense of pete, BEP, CoMo, and the like (sorry to leave so many of you out, but I ain't got all day)--I don't think they start deceptive threads/make deceptive posts on purpose. They are just really gullible and desperate.

Comrade Crapski
02-01-2013, 12:49 PM
Oh, I'm glad to help you sort out the confusion. See, I'm a law student, which is different than an actual lawyer who you work for. The actual lawyers who pay for your unproductive ass have actually graduated from law school and passed the bar, which I haven't had the opportunity to do yet.

Jenson, you ever find out who killed your arkansas transvestite girlfriend?

CoMoChief
02-01-2013, 12:54 PM
In the defense of pete, BEP, CoMo, and the like (sorry to leave so many of you out, but I ain't got all day)--I don't think they start deceptive threads/make deceptive posts on purpose. They are just really gullible and desperate.

ROFL

This coming from the guy who thinks Obama's our lord and savior.

You're nothing but a mindless silly liberal...

Otter
02-01-2013, 01:30 PM
An organization that is 16.5 trillion in debt isn't a good candidate for running anything.

Anyone who thought this would benefit is either fresh off the banana boat or plain dumb.

blaise
02-01-2013, 01:31 PM
I agree. Pete's total reliance on Drudge is an old routine.

Oddly enough it never bothered you when orange did it with the Huffington Post.

suzzer99
02-01-2013, 01:37 PM
It would be nice if we could have something like a "just the facts" Obamacare thread with no partisan bickering and pissing contests. Impossible I know.

petegz28
02-01-2013, 01:40 PM
It would be nice if we could have something like a "just the facts" Obamacare thread with no partisan bickering and pissing contests. Impossible I know.

That's because the facts are still coming out. Nevermind they seem to be ever-changing.

jjjayb
02-01-2013, 01:49 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=1275

I guess we can't have a thread on Koch dying either. It's on Drudge. :rolleyes:

suzzer99
02-01-2013, 01:54 PM
That's because the facts are still coming out. Nevermind they seem to be ever-changing.

Just like they have with every major government program ever implemented. What's your point?

You do realize you have a visceral hatred for anything Obama that completely blocks the rational part of your brain from even considering stuff like the fact that Obamacare was a republican idea first, implemented with success by Mitt Romney, or that every other developed nation has UHC, or that many people currently in the "donut hole" I described will be greatly helped by this, right?

petegz28
02-01-2013, 01:59 PM
Just like they have with every major government program ever implemented. What's your point?

You do realize you have a visceral hatred for anything Obama that completely blocks the rational part of your brain from even considering stuff like the fact that Obamacare was a republican idea first, implemented with success by Mitt Romney, or that every other developed nation has UHC, or that many people currently in the "donut hole" I described will be greatly helped by this, right?

you obviously paid little attention to my arguments during the entire health care debate.

CoMoChief
02-01-2013, 03:14 PM
you obviously paid little attention to my arguments during the entire health care debate.

No you see, libs don't think logically.

To them...if you hate Obamacare, it's because you hate Obama or you'rea racist or both.

Giving out facts and numbers and making any kind of sense at all has no place in the Obamacare argument w/ liberals. Why? Because they think money grows on trees...They don't think our economy is in the shitter, in fact they think it's booming. Most have zero sense of money nor do they care when someone tries to explain it to them.

They don't understand that "nothing is free - someone has to foot the bill somewhere". This entire govt and monetary system needs a massive and complete overhaul. Liberals don't care about anything really as long as they get their piece of the Obamapie.

Republicans aren't much better. They're all for more spending, more govt, more wars, more bailouts, they just have a different rhetoric.

J Diddy
02-01-2013, 03:54 PM
LMAO

This thread is funny.

cosmo20002
02-01-2013, 04:00 PM
No you see, libs don't think logically.



9/11, Columbine, Aurora and Sandy Hook were all government-planned conspiracies.

/CoMoChief

BigMeatballDave
02-01-2013, 04:20 PM
And you're a festering pile of welfare-sucking shit.

LMAO

BigRedChief
02-01-2013, 04:27 PM
9/11, Columbine, Aurora and Sandy Hook were all government-planned conspiracies.

/CoMoChiefROFL

Velvet_Jones
02-01-2013, 04:38 PM
It would be nice if we could have something like a "just the facts" Obamacare thread with no partisan bickering and pissing contests. Impossible I know.

The problem with the "just the facts" on Obamacare is that a lot of the facts are not known yet or are having to be revised because they are not viable, make no sense, or the CBO mis-scored it based on false data and assumptions. The facts that are known are simply not viable and more represent welfare than insurance. Additionally, people don't know what insurance actually is and what it is not. They have just been told that the insurance companies are evil and this is how the government will help you get back at them.

Some issues that you may want to ponder:

Insurance was never meant to pay first dollar benefits on health maintenance. The reason why other kinds of insurance remains relatively cheep, for example, is that your home owners policy doesn't come out and paint your house when its needed. The states and now the fed (PPACA) have turned health insurance into welfare.

Pre-existing illness is a straw-man argument because there have been regulations in place that prevents an insurance company from denying anyone coverage based on pre-existing conditions. Its call "guaranteed issue". Look it up. The only reason an insurance company can take action on a pre-existing illness is if the insured didn't have major medical coverage within 'x' number of months before getting the new coverage. And even if they didn't have coverage, the pre-existing rules only apply to the actual condition and only apply for a specified length of time. One other thing, if it is proven that the person lied on their application for insurance about a condition, the normal course of action is to re-evaluate the insured or groups premium rates to correctly account for the inaccurate information.

Group vs one-life major med coverage. With the exception of a couple states, group and one-life health insurance is considered the same thing and they both follow the same legally mandated rules. The term "Like" coverage is used to indicate that the insured had coverage of the same type before the new coverage was in-force. One exception is alternative healthcare plans, such as a temporary medical plan is not considered a "Like" coverage. Temp health plans are a stop gap product that has limited coverage for a limited length of time. It is not a replacement for major medical coverage but rather a plan that can be purchased when someone is between jobs or other life events. Punishment for selling a temp medical plan as a replacement for major medical can cause an agent to have his license revoked. Most insurance companies track agents and insureds to make sure the consumer doesn't screw himself by misusing temp medical plans.

MLR - minimum loss ratio. Its also called the 80/85 rule (based on group size). This is the dagger that is intended to simply collapse the insurance industry. The rule is that if an insurance company does not pay 80%/85% of the premium collected for direct claims expense, then the remainder of the premium must be returned to the insured or group. In other words, if the insurance company pays 75% of premium collected in a plan year, 5% of premium must be returned to the consumer. The insurance company gets to keep 15-20% of premium for agent commissions, marketing, and administration expenses. That sounds fair and that is what the promoters of ACA ran with. Typically, they forgot the most important thing - reality. This works great until you have an insured that has claims that total, for example, 3000% of the premium collected. By law, the insurance company must "reserve" funds for future claims and claims spikes. By definition, these funds are not included in the 80/85% and must be funded within the 20/25% of the premium. There simply isn't enough premium to properly fund an insurance plan and the 80/85% rule makes sure of that. The only way to fund a plan is to raise rates. Government backed plans can lose money every year and never go out of business. In other words - welfare.

Reporting and payment requirements and MediCare: Medicare has no particular reporting or payment requirements in terms of settling a claim within a time period. MediCare routinely takes 12-18 months to settle a claim. Insurance companies have 30 to 45 days if the claim was submitted without any deficiencies (meaning all the information the insurance company needs or has questions about).

Doctor reimbursement: Medicare pays anywhere from 25-75% of what a private insurance company ends up paying for a specific service. The physicians and hospitals offset the loss from MediCare patients my increasing the fees privately insureds must pay. There is a little negotiating room for the private insurance company to attempt to reduce the claims cost but it is no where near 25-75%.

Rate Indexing: This is complicated but I will just say that there is no way that a single person can be singled out for rate increases. Every state that I know of uses some type of rate indexing that limits increases by not allowing the highest rate and lowest rate within a plan to be no more that 'x' percentage points apart. Additionally, indexing also considers the weighted mean of the rate range to make sure that the rate indexing is similar to a bell curve. I would bet that a lot of people within the issued policy that you uncle had insurance through got similar rate changes.

I could go on but I won't.

Oh - your uncle needed to join a professional or industry organization multiple employers trust (MET) that allows him to be considered part of a larger group and therefore pre-existing conditions would never have been an issue. His agent should have told him that. The membership fees are a few bucks a year.

|Zach|
02-01-2013, 04:40 PM
So where was this when you started a thread about a story that was on Drudege the other day, douchebag?

It is pretty amazing...every single time with you. Good stuff.

I had never ever heard of CNS News and was curious about them. Read through the about section...ok interesting...looked at the company that owned them Media Research Center. Yea there it is...there is that classic Pete getting bullshit info from bullshit sources that tells him what he wants to hear.

The Media Research Center (MRC) is a conservative content analysis organization based in Alexandria, Virginia, founded in 1987 by conservative activist L. Brent Bozell III. Its stated mission is to "prove — through sound scientific research — that liberal bias in the media does exist and undermines traditional American values" and to "neutralize [that bias's] impact on the American political scene"

This forum is a fun place.

Guru
02-01-2013, 04:48 PM
JFC I don't pay that much for my healthcare now.

BigRedChief
02-01-2013, 04:51 PM
JFC I don't pay that much for my healthcare now.JFC the $20K # is pure BS.

Guru
02-01-2013, 04:55 PM
JFC the $20K # is pure BS.

Dude, you don't have to be that way. I have no idea if the article is BS or not but the mere possibility and the fact that numbers like this seems to be all I ever hear make it hard to believe otherwise. If you have other links please post them for me rather than putting up a dick post like that.

RNR
02-01-2013, 05:24 PM
Dude, you don't have to be that way. I have no idea if the article is BS or not but the mere possibility and the fact that numbers like this seems to be all I ever hear make it hard to believe otherwise. If you have other links please post them for me rather than putting up a dick post like that.

That clown is one of the most disingenuous posters here. Maybe it is due to being a big soft red head that got picked on his whole life...just a guess. It is the only conclusion I can come to knowing little about him less than his asinine posts and the picture of his goofy ass posted a while back. I will save you the typing...yes I just posted a as you call it "a dick post" and I did it because he warrants one~

petegz28
02-01-2013, 05:27 PM
It is pretty amazing...every single time with you. Good stuff.

I had never ever heard of CNS News and was curious about them. Read through the about section...ok interesting...looked at the company that owned them Media Research Center. Yea there it is...there is that classic Pete getting bullshit info from bullshit sources that tells him what he wants to hear.

The Media Research Center (MRC) is a conservative content analysis organization based in Alexandria, Virginia, founded in 1987 by conservative activist L. Brent Bozell III. Its stated mission is to "prove — through sound scientific research — that liberal bias in the media does exist and undermines traditional American values" and to "neutralize [that bias's] impact on the American political scene"

This forum is a fun place.

Perhaps you could provide us with you choice news outlets?

BigRedChief
02-01-2013, 05:28 PM
Dude, you don't have to be that way. I have no idea if the article is BS or not but the mere possibility and the fact that numbers like this seems to be all I ever hear make it hard to believe otherwise. If you have other links please post them for me rather than putting up a dick post like that.sorry dude it wasn't really directed at you. No idea why I quoted your post. Just an accident. Pinky swear. :thumb:

The $ makes no sense. You can get top of the line health care on the open market for less than $10K a year.

Guru
02-01-2013, 05:29 PM
That clown is one of the most disingenuous posters here. Maybe it is due to being a big soft red head that got picked on his whole life...just a guess. It is the only conclusion I can come to knowing little about him less than his asinine posts and the picture of his goofy ass posted a while back. I will save you the typing...yes I just posted a as you call it "a dick post" and I did it because he warrants one~

I like BRC quite a bit and consider him a good friend. His post caught me off guard because it offered me nothing. I was really surprised he posted that to me.

theelusiveeightrop
02-01-2013, 05:30 PM
I am gonna pay $40,000 because congress and the insurance industry will do what is best with the extra.

BigRedChief
02-01-2013, 05:32 PM
I like BRC quite a bit and consider him a good friend. His post caught me off guard because it offered me nothing. I was really surprised he posted that to me.Thanks dude. :thumb:

I was just reading the thread and thinking $20K is BS and your was the last post, hit quote instead of new reply. again, sorry. My bad.

Guru
02-01-2013, 05:33 PM
Thanks dude. :thumb:

I was just reading the thread and thinking $20K is BS and your was the last post, hit quote instead of new reply. again, sorry. My bad.

I'm good with that. Makes a hell of lot more sense now.

What numbers are you seeing for this?

RNR
02-01-2013, 05:34 PM
I like BRC quite a bit and consider him a good friend. His post caught me off guard because it offered me nothing. I was really surprised he posted that to me.

Thats cool, maybe he is an ok guy in person. From the shape shifting his does here I would bet him and I would not enjoy each others company. This is not a knee jerk reaction to a post from him. It is an evaluation derived from reading his posts for quite a longtime~

Guru
02-01-2013, 05:36 PM
Thats cool, maybe he is an ok guy in person. From the shape shifting his does here I would bet him and I would not enjoy each others company. This is not a knee jerk reaction to a post from him. It is an evaluation derived from reading his posts for quite a longtime~

nah, You would like him just fine. He is a great guy to hang out with. This is just what DC does.

RNR
02-01-2013, 05:39 PM
nah, You would like him just fine. He is a great guy to hang out with. This is just what DC does.

Maybe so...not sold...but maybe :)

BigRedChief
02-01-2013, 05:44 PM
I'm good with that. Makes a hell of lot more sense now.

What numbers are you seeing for this?If you can get a top of the line healthcare plan on the open market without being in a group for $10K. Why would it cost double that for a group plan that offers less?

Again, these are Obamacare exchanges but its private insurance companies doing the selling, they are in it for the money, they are a business. who is going to buy their plan at twice what it costs to buy the same plan outside of Obamacare?

Makes no financial sense.

RNR
02-01-2013, 05:50 PM
Obamacare Makes no financial sense.

The rest of your post was unnecessary wear and tear on your keyboard. I removed the unneeded words from your post~

notorious
02-01-2013, 06:00 PM
There is no way this is true.

Zero.

J Diddy
02-01-2013, 06:44 PM
It's all good. I wipe my ass with 20 thousand dollar bills that I get from my student loans that I will default on.

Direckshun
02-01-2013, 06:47 PM
That's exactly what I expected. Asking you that causes you to evaluate your life on this board as a regurgitating bag of vomit for right-wing hysteria. And you probably find it discomforting to realize that you can't think for yourself.

LMAO

Direckshun
02-01-2013, 06:49 PM
It is pretty amazing...every single time with you. Good stuff.

I had never ever heard of CNS News and was curious about them. Read through the about section...ok interesting...looked at the company that owned them Media Research Center. Yea there it is...there is that classic Pete getting bullshit info from bullshit sources that tells him what he wants to hear.

The Media Research Center (MRC) is a conservative content analysis organization based in Alexandria, Virginia, founded in 1987 by conservative activist L. Brent Bozell III. Its stated mission is to "prove — through sound scientific research — that liberal bias in the media does exist and undermines traditional American values" and to "neutralize [that bias's] impact on the American political scene"

This forum is a fun place.

LMAO

Chocolate Hog
02-01-2013, 08:24 PM
That clown is one of the most disingenuous posters here. Maybe it is due to being a big soft red head that got picked on his whole life...just a guess. It is the only conclusion I can come to knowing little about him less than his asinine posts and the picture of his goofy ass posted a while back. I will save you the typing...yes I just posted a as you call it "a dick post" and I did it because he warrants one~

You talking about me?


Oh wait lol

mlyonsd
02-01-2013, 08:33 PM
The idea Obamacare is going to save money is entirely idiotic.

It's already cost me more and the entire thing hasn't even kicked in yet.

BigRedChief
02-01-2013, 08:54 PM
The idea Obamacare is going to save money is entirely idiotic.

It's already cost me more and the entire thing hasn't even kicked in yet.I wanted a single payer system. Republicans wanted nothing. this is what we got. It's here to stay.

Without Obamacare my son doesn't have health insurance. He's a college student. Makes money for gas and dates. No way he is going to spend money on health insurance. He see's no need. As I did at his age. But I sleep better knowing if he is in a car accident a hospital bill doesn't ruin his credit before he even starts his life.

I think the saving money was a good thing but 30 million of my fellow citizens will now have insurance is a damn good thing.

Going to the ER for health care is a very inefficient waste of money. That has to save money.

mlyonsd
02-01-2013, 09:01 PM
I wanted a single payer system. Republicans wanted nothing. this is what we got. It's here to stay.

I think the saving money was a good thing but 30 million of my fellow citizens will now have insurance is a damn good thing.

That has to save money. Going to the ER for health care is a very inefficient waste of money.
I commend you for being sympathetic. Really I do.

I would have started with offering government health care for those not covered under the age of 18 or 21.

What we have now is something that will cost us all more in the long run, cut benefits, institute 'death panels', and end up slowing down research.

Congrats, but whether you understand it yet or not you've just made the lives of the worker bees that do all the work worse.

BigRedChief
02-01-2013, 09:11 PM
What we have now is something that will cost us all more in the long run, cut benefits, institute 'death panels', and end up slowing down research.
Death panels already exist. They are called the insurance companies appeals board.

Congrats, but whether you understand it yet or not you've just made the lives of the worker bees that do all the work worse.Cool I truly have impact in Washington. I didn't know my words on the internet carried so much weight. I'll remind you of that fact next time you disagree with me.

mlyonsd
02-01-2013, 09:19 PM
Death panels already exist. They are called the insurance companies appeals board.

You understand the difference right? Many insurance policies now give you great latitude to search for life saving care. They are now forced to rethink that and lower those standards. But hey, we're all going to die sometime anyway so if you're elderly you might not get the same breaks a young person might get.

Cool I truly have impact in Washington. I didn't know my words on the internet carried so much weight. I'll remind you of that fact next time you disagree with me.
I wasn't talking about your opinion on the internet. I was talking about your vote.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:36 PM
I commend you for being sympathetic. Really I do.

I would have started with offering government health care for those not covered under the age of 18 or 21.

What we have now is something that will cost us all more in the long run, cut benefits, institute 'death panels', and end up slowing down research.

Congrats, but whether you understand it yet or not you've just made the lives of the worker bees that do all the work worse.

Health care costs were already rising. ACA incentivizes carrying insurance from private companies, allows people with pre-existing conditions to get affordable insurance, and designs state markets that allow consumers to have more information and help curb the costs of insurance plans.

The design of the act is market-driven, whether you understand that or not.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:40 PM
You understand the difference right? Many insurance policies now give you great latitude to search for life saving care. They are now forced to rethink that and lower those standards. But hey, we're all going to die sometime anyway so if you're elderly you might not get the same breaks a young person might get.

Link, plz

mlyonsd
02-01-2013, 09:43 PM
Health care costs were already rising. ACA incentivizes carrying insurance from private companies, allows people with pre-existing conditions to get affordable insurance, and designs state markets that allow consumers to have more information and help curb the costs of insurance plans.

The design of the act is market-driven, whether you understand that or not.Of course it's market driven. To cover 30 million more people while passing the cost to everyone that pays taxes and/or already carries insurance.

Which will do nothing but reduce benefits in the long run whether you understand that or not.

mlyonsd
02-01-2013, 09:45 PM
Link, plz
I don't have a link. I'm predicting the inevitable.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:50 PM
Of course it's market driven. To cover 30 million more people while passing the cost to everyone that pays taxes and/or already carries insurance.

Which will do nothing but reduce benefits in the long run whether you understand that or not.

The people cover themselves because of the mandate . . . .

You know what? Nevermind. You're not going to get it.

La literatura
02-01-2013, 09:51 PM
I don't have a link. I'm predicting the inevitable.

Yeah, I didn't think so.

stonedstooge
02-01-2013, 09:53 PM
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/_o65vMUk5so?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

-King-
02-01-2013, 10:00 PM
I heard that the cheapest was actually $100,000!!!

mikey23545
02-01-2013, 10:49 PM
The problem with the "just the facts" on Obamacare is that a lot of the facts are not known yet or are having to be revised because they are not viable, make no sense, or the CBO mis-scored it based on false data and assumptions. The facts that are known are simply not viable and more represent welfare than insurance. Additionally, people don't know what insurance actually is and what it is not. They have just been told that the insurance companies are evil and this is how the government will help you get back at them.

Some issues that you may want to ponder:

Insurance was never meant to pay first dollar benefits on health maintenance. The reason why other kinds of insurance remains relatively cheap, for example, is that your home owners policy doesn't come out and paint your house when its needed. The states and now the fed (PPACA) have turned health insurance into welfare.

Pre-existing illness is a straw-man argument because there have been regulations in place that prevents an insurance company from denying anyone coverage based on pre-existing conditions. Its call "guaranteed issue". Look it up. The only reason an insurance company can take action on a pre-existing illness is if the insured didn't have major medical coverage within 'x' number of months before getting the new coverage. And even if they didn't have coverage, the pre-existing rules only apply to the actual condition and only apply for a specified length of time. One other thing, if it is proven that the person lied on their application for insurance about a condition, the normal course of action is to re-evaluate the insured or groups premium rates to correctly account for the inaccurate information.

Group vs one-life major med coverage. With the exception of a couple states, group and one-life health insurance is considered the same thing and they both follow the same legally mandated rules. The term "Like" coverage is used to indicate that the insured had coverage of the same type before the new coverage was in-force. One exception is alternative healthcare plans, such as a temporary medical plan is not considered a "Like" coverage. Temp health plans are a stop gap product that has limited coverage for a limited length of time. It is not a replacement for major medical coverage but rather a plan that can be purchased when someone is between jobs or other life events. Punishment for selling a temp medical plan as a replacement for major medical can cause an agent to have his license revoked. Most insurance companies track agents and insureds to make sure the consumer doesn't screw himself by misusing temp medical plans.

MLR - minimum loss ratio. Its also called the 80/85 rule (based on group size). This is the dagger that is intended to simply collapse the insurance industry. The rule is that if an insurance company does not pay 80%/85% of the premium collected for direct claims expense, then the remainder of the premium must be returned to the insured or group. In other words, if the insurance company pays 75% of premium collected in a plan year, 5% of premium must be returned to the consumer. The insurance company gets to keep 15-20% of premium for agent commissions, marketing, and administration expenses. That sounds fair and that is what the promoters of ACA ran with. Typically, they forgot the most important thing - reality. This works great until you have an insured that has claims that total, for example, 3000% of the premium collected. By law, the insurance company must "reserve" funds for future claims and claims spikes. By definition, these funds are not included in the 80/85% and must be funded within the 20/25% of the premium. There simply isn't enough premium to properly fund an insurance plan and the 80/85% rule makes sure of that. The only way to fund a plan is to raise rates. Government backed plans can lose money every year and never go out of business. In other words - welfare.

Reporting and payment requirements and MediCare: Medicare has no particular reporting or payment requirements in terms of settling a claim within a time period. MediCare routinely takes 12-18 months to settle a claim. Insurance companies have 30 to 45 days if the claim was submitted without any deficiencies (meaning all the information the insurance company needs or has questions about).

Doctor reimbursement: Medicare pays anywhere from 25-75% of what a private insurance company ends up paying for a specific service. The physicians and hospitals offset the loss from MediCare patients my increasing the fees privately insureds must pay. There is a little negotiating room for the private insurance company to attempt to reduce the claims cost but it is no where near 25-75%.

Rate Indexing: This is complicated but I will just say that there is no way that a single person can be singled out for rate increases. Every state that I know of uses some type of rate indexing that limits increases by not allowing the highest rate and lowest rate within a plan to be no more than 'x' percentage points apart. Additionally, indexing also considers the weighted mean of the rate range to make sure that the rate indexing is similar to a bell curve. I would bet that a lot of people within the issued policy that your uncle had insurance through got similar rate changes.

I could go on but I won't.

Oh - your uncle needed to join a professional or industry organization multiple employers trust (MET) that allows him to be considered part of a larger group and therefore pre-existing conditions would never have been an issue. His agent should have told him that. The membership fees are a few bucks a year.


Amazing that everyone is ignoring your very informative post - especially the libs.

|Zach|
02-01-2013, 11:02 PM
Perhaps you could provide us with you choice news outlets?

Newsmax. Drudge. My inbox. Bumper stickers. Photo shops from fringe websites.

Basically I don't give a single shit what goes in one ear and out the other.

notorious
02-02-2013, 08:00 AM
I heard that the cheapest was actually $100,000!!!

False.

It was $99,999.


I have no idea how they came to the 20k number. Are both parents and 3 toddlers smoking, shark diving, snow-mobile flipping meth addicts?

Dave Lane
02-02-2013, 08:02 AM
This maybe the stupidest headline in the history of headlines. JFC Pete things like this make you look like a fool.

Dave Lane
02-02-2013, 08:04 AM
False.

It was $99,999.


I have no idea how they came to the 20k number. Are both parents and 3 toddlers smoking, shark diving, snow-mobile flipping meth addicts?

And injecting Herion directly into their eyes. Don't forget that, otherwise its only $200 a month :)

notorious
02-02-2013, 08:33 AM
And injecting Herion directly into their eyes. Don't forget that, otherwise its only $200 a month :)

It's only Black Tar Heroin, not biggie.

suzzer99
02-02-2013, 09:56 AM
Amazing that everyone is ignoring your very informative post - especially the libs.

I read until the pre-existing condition stuff, which is a flat out lie. Private insurance can and will deny you all the time for pre-existing conditions. The continuous coverage thing only applies if you say you don't have any major pre-existing conditions that they don't want to cover.

Also "people "lying on their application as has been expanded in the past to include things like forgetting to report a case of acne that you went to the doctor for 10 years ago. So now you're in the flight fight of your life with bone cancer, and you find out your claim is denied because of something like that.

The dirty little secret or private insurance is that they'll accept all kinds of people and then only really underwrite you (review your application) when you get sick. It's called rescission. Which means there are millions of people out there walking around with private health insurance who think they're covered, while in actuality if they get sick insurance company is going to drop them like a hot potato. But of course they're more than happy to take your premiums until that day comes. If they had to underwrite everyone upfront, the whole business model would fail.

Claims adjusters were getting bonuses based on how many people they they deny. http://www.senmorgancarroll.com/blog/sb10-076-insurance-bonuses-to-deny-claims

The whole post is a misleading word bomb that sounds like propaganda put out by the health insurance industry. The problem is someone takes all the time to reply to each distortion, and nobody's got to read the back-and-forth anyway. So just by making it seem like there's a legitimate case for stuff like pre-existing conditions not existing, they win a stalemate in the argument that Obamacare does no good, which is all they want.

Comrade Crapski
02-02-2013, 10:32 AM
good job, moonbats.

petegz28
02-02-2013, 01:17 PM
This maybe the stupidest headline in the history of headlines. JFC Pete things like this make you look like a fool.

Blaming me for a headline I didn't create is about as dumb as it gets and yes, you are it

cosmo20002
02-02-2013, 02:52 PM
Blaming me for a headline I didn't create is about as dumb as it gets and yes, you are it

You're being blamed for being dumb enough to (once again) fall for a completely bullshit "news" article and then posting it here. You're not the only one who does this, but that fact that you KEEP doing it--going to the same websites, posting stuff that really doesn't even sound true to anyone with the slightest familiarily with the facts--is truly amazing.

Direckshun
02-02-2013, 03:18 PM
You're being blamed for being dumb enough to (once again) fall for a completely bullshit "news" article and then posting it here. You're not the only one who does this, but that fact that you KEEP doing it--going to the same websites, posting stuff that really doesn't even sound true to anyone with the slightest familiarily with the facts--is truly amazing.

LMAO

|Zach|
02-02-2013, 03:56 PM
Blaming me for a headline I didn't create is about as dumb as it gets and yes, you are it

The only thing you are being blamed for is for being too stupid to know you are being fed bullshit.

And then doubling down by not caring.

petegz28
02-02-2013, 06:44 PM
The only thing you are being blamed for is for being too stupid to know you are being fed bullshit.

And then doubling down by not caring.

Where have I ever made any comment about the OP at all? Maybe you should assume less, read more and you'll be a little less of a dick.

petegz28
02-02-2013, 06:45 PM
You're being blamed for being dumb enough to (once again) fall for a completely bullshit "news" article and then posting it here. You're not the only one who does this, but that fact that you KEEP doing it--going to the same websites, posting stuff that really doesn't even sound true to anyone with the slightest familiarily with the facts--is truly amazing.

I'm being blamed for your assuming things then putting words in my mouth. Nice.

J Diddy
02-02-2013, 06:48 PM
Where have I ever made any comment about the OP at all?

Are you honestly implying that you cut and pasted an article that you don't agree with and just let it ride?

petegz28
02-02-2013, 06:50 PM
Are you honestly implying that you cut and pasted an article that you don't agree with and just let it ride?

I posted it up for discussion. I have posted several articles over the years that I don't agree with. The fact is I never commented on the OP one way or the other. It's not my fault a few here choose to make asses of themselves.

Comrade Crapski
02-02-2013, 06:52 PM
so it's still free, then?

whoo, dodged a bullet there.

petegz28
02-02-2013, 06:52 PM
Are you honestly implying that you cut and pasted an article that you don't agree with and just let it ride?

If I had started a thread showing the quote where Pioli said he drafted Tyson Jackson not based on talent but his ability to handle $30 mil and I never commented on it one way or the other does that mean by default I support what Pioli did?

J Diddy
02-02-2013, 07:13 PM
If I had started a thread showing the quote where ***** said he drafted Tyson Jackson not based on talent but his ability to handle $30 mil and I never commented on it one way or the other does that mean by default I support what ***** did?

Don't you find it odd that you cut and paste an article for discussion, but don't discuss it? Typically when that is done it is implied that you agree with it.

petegz28
02-02-2013, 07:16 PM
Don't you find it odd that you cut and paste an article for discussion, but don't discuss it? Typically when that is done it is implied that you agree with it.

Perhaps I might have been up for discussing it had a couple people not started whining about where the story can from. Regardless, I never opined on the OP one way or the other so assume what you will as much as you want, it's your life.

cosmo20002
02-02-2013, 07:21 PM
Perhaps I might have been up for discussing it had a couple people not started whining about where the story can from. Regardless, I never opined on the OP one way or the other so assume what you will as much as you want, it's your life.

Now you're just embarassing yourself. You could either admit you have no ability to detect a BS story and you were duped again, or you could STFU and not pretend that you didn't have an opinion.

petegz28
02-02-2013, 07:27 PM
Now you're just embarassing yourself. You could either admit you have no ability to detect a BS story and you were duped again, or you could STFU and not pretend that you didn't have an opinion.

Ok, so when I didn't say anything about the OP, which I still have not, you bash on me for whatever. Now you are telling me I could just STFU and pretend I "didn't have an opinion", i.e. not say anything about the OP???

You can't keep your own shit straight you dumb****.

cosmo20002
02-02-2013, 07:32 PM
Ok, so when I didn't say anything about the OP, which I still have not, you bash on me for whatever. Now you are telling me I could just STFU and pretend I "didn't have an opinion"???

You can't keep your own shit straight you dumb****.

Yes--you should have picked one: Admit you were duped or don't say anything.

What you shouldn't do is pretend you posted it but didn't really agree with it, because we all know that is BS.

Brock
02-02-2013, 07:33 PM
Rove to be indicted within two weeks

petegz28
02-02-2013, 07:37 PM
Yes--you should have picked one: Admit you were duped or don't say anything.

What you shouldn't do is pretend you posted it but didn't really agree with it, because we all know that is BS.

JFC, you are a riot. I haven't said whether I agree with it or yet you have assumed I did, now assume I didn't, told me to do what I did do and the one thing you have not done is actually ask me what I thought of the OP. ROFL


What you shouldn't do is repeatedly make a complete and total asshole of yourself but I understad you can't help it.

petegz28
02-02-2013, 07:37 PM
Rove to be indicted within two weeks

Sex ring scandal with gnomish womens

cosmo20002
02-02-2013, 07:40 PM
JFC, you are a riot. I haven't said whether I agree with it or yet you have assumed I did, now assume I didn't, told me to do what I did do and the one thing you have not done is actually ask me what I thought of the OP. ROFL


"Agree with it" isn't the right term. You thought the assertions in the article were true. You're not fooling anyone.

petegz28
02-02-2013, 07:52 PM
"Agree with it" isn't the right term. You thought the assertions in the article were true. You're not fooling anyone.

Don't try and backtrack on your BS. It's not my fault you have made assumption after assumption.

mlyonsd
02-02-2013, 09:42 PM
The people cover themselves because of the mandate . . . .

You know what? Nevermind. You're not going to get it.Feel free to expound. I'll tap out when your intelligence over powers me.

J Diddy
02-02-2013, 10:03 PM
Perhaps I might have been up for discussing it had a couple people not started whining about where the story can from. Regardless, I never opined on the OP one way or the other so assume what you will as much as you want, it's your life.

Lol okay. Nice chicken shit answer.

Option A
"I found a great story worthy of discussion!!!! It's so worthy, that I think I won't offer my opinion of it, because shortly after it was posted I realized how full of shit it was."
Option B
I like spreading misleading news to better my position


Which is it?

Direckshun
02-03-2013, 06:26 AM
I posted it up for discussion. I have posted several articles over the years that I don't agree with. The fact is I never commented on the OP one way or the other. It's not my fault a few here choose to make asses of themselves.

ROFL

|Zach|
02-03-2013, 07:09 AM
Pete's wife is a cum slurping whore of a woman.








































































































I did not comment on that information I am just putting it out there for discussion

BigRedChief
02-03-2013, 08:30 AM
Perhaps I might have been up for discussing it had a couple people not started whining about where the story can from. Regardless, I never opined on the OP one way or the other so assume what you will as much as you want, it's your life.WTF? ROFL

alanm
02-03-2013, 09:53 AM
That's because the facts are still coming out. Nevermind they seem to be ever-changing.Well they did have to pass the bill to find out what's in it.

petegz28
02-03-2013, 10:32 AM
Pete's wife is a cum slurping whore of a woman.








































































































I did not comment on that information I am just putting it out there for discussion

And you can go fuck yourself you little cock fag

Direckshun
02-03-2013, 10:34 AM
And you can go **** yourself you little cock pillowbiter

Hey hey hey. Easy now.

He was just putting it out there for discussion. He did not comment on it.

petegz28
02-03-2013, 10:34 AM
Lol okay. Nice chicken shit answer.

Option A
"I found a great story worthy of discussion!!!! It's so worthy, that I think I won't offer my opinion of it, because shortly after it was posted I realized how full of shit it was."
Option B
I like spreading misleading news to better my position


Which is it?

Why does it have to be those two?

petegz28
02-03-2013, 10:35 AM
Hey hey hey. Easy now.

He was just putting it out there for discussion. He did not comment on it.

And you can go fuck yourself too

petegz28
02-03-2013, 10:37 AM
I'll just leave this thread now before I end up doing something that might get a ban thrown at me

ThatRaceCardGuy
02-03-2013, 10:37 AM
Why does it have to be those two?

You make it easy for all of us to believe, that you have no clue what you're typing.

ThatRaceCardGuy
02-03-2013, 10:37 AM
I'll just leave this thread now before I end up doing something that might get a ban thrown at me

Never stopped you before :thumb:

|Zach|
02-03-2013, 10:39 AM
And you can go **** yourself you little cock pillowbiter

I don't know why you are reacting like that. I was not commenting on your wife being a cum slurping whore I was just putting out the information that your wife is a cum slurping whore so it could be discussed Pete.

What is the big deal.

petegz28
02-03-2013, 10:41 AM
I don't know why you are reacting like that. I was not commenting on your wife being a cum slurping whore I was just putting out the information that your wife is a cum slurping whore so it could be discussed Pete.

What is the big deal.

You're pushing it, mother fucker

BigRedChief
02-03-2013, 10:44 AM
I don't know why you are reacting like that. I was not commenting on your wife being a cum slurping whore I was just putting out the information that your wife is a cum slurping whore so it could be discussed Pete.

What is the big deal.I have no love for pete and his antics but, come on man, even DC has some self imposed limits. Take a look behind you and see that line.

|Zach|
02-03-2013, 10:44 AM
You're pushing it, mother ****er

Blaming me for your wife being a cum slurping whore of a woman is about as dumb as it gets

|Zach|
02-03-2013, 10:45 AM
I have no love for pete and his antics but, come on man, even DC has some self imposed limits. Take a look behind you and see that line.

I will sleep just fine tonight.

ThatRaceCardGuy
02-03-2013, 10:47 AM
I don't know why you are reacting like that. I was not commenting on your wife being a cum slurping whore I was just putting out the information that your wife is a cum slurping whore so it could be discussed Pete.

What is the big deal.

ROFLROFL

ThatRaceCardGuy
02-03-2013, 10:48 AM
I have no love for pete and his antics but, come on man, even DC has some self imposed limits. Take a look behind you and see that line.

Self imposed lines ? Since when ? Racist post are okay in DC..but never refer to someone`s wife as cum bucket ? Come on man...seriously ?

BigRedChief
02-03-2013, 10:51 AM
I will sleep just fine tonight.I am sure that is a true statement.:rolleyes:

petegz28
02-03-2013, 10:54 AM
I am sure that is a true statement.:rolleyes:

Zach is notorious for being a keyboard-warrior. While you and I disagree politcally I am glad some can see the line that was crossed.

|Zach|
02-03-2013, 10:56 AM
Zach is notorious for being a keyboard-warrior. While you and I disagree politcally I am glad some can see the line that was crossed.

Bawww

Bro hugs.

All around.

ThatRaceCardGuy
02-03-2013, 11:07 AM
Zach is notorious for being a keyboard-warrior. While you and I disagree politcally I am glad some can see the line that was crossed.

Every time you start a thread a line is crossed..JFC you're the biggest cry baby on this board.

petegz28
02-03-2013, 11:09 AM
Every time you start a thread a line is crossed..JFC you're the biggest cry baby on this board.

:spock:

unnecessary drama
02-03-2013, 11:12 AM
if I was married and somebody called my wife a name on this board that I didn't know in real life...

I don't think I could ever be offended. What? Who cares.

ThatRaceCardGuy
02-03-2013, 11:35 AM
if I was married and somebody called my wife a name on this board that I didn't know in real life...

I don't think I could ever be offended. What? Who cares.

Exactly.

blaise
02-03-2013, 11:59 AM
Zach is notorious for being a keyboard-warrior. While you and I disagree politcally I am glad some can see the line that was crossed.

Is he? I thought he was kind of thought of as some fat, sort of effeminate dude.

|Zach|
02-03-2013, 12:02 PM
Is he? I thought he was kind of thought of as some fat, sort of effeminate dude.

The tales of me are many and have traveled far through out the land. Mostly told by people that have not met me though.

cosmo20002
02-03-2013, 12:17 PM
Hey, I just read something on the internet so I thought I would post it.

Pete's wife is a cum slurping whore of a woman.

Count Zarth
02-03-2013, 12:22 PM
I pay maybe $1000 a year for healthcare via my company....so how the fuck does a family, even of 5, end up paying 20 grand?

suzzer99
02-04-2013, 03:05 AM
They don't. It's just conserva-porn.