PDA

View Full Version : Economics How would Americans strengthen social security?


Direckshun
02-03-2013, 07:05 AM
This is how:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/01/social_security_changes1.png

Blue is the percentage of people that support that particular reform -- red is people that do not support it (dark blue is "strongly," light blue is "lightly"; same is true for red).

This is based on a study by the National Academy of Social Insurance: http://www.nasi.org/sites/default/files/research/What_Do_Americans_Want.pdf

The conclusions section is on page 29, and it starts off with this:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=1291

I'm not the kind of guy who believes we should always do as the polls dictate, but these are some ridiculously lopsided polls.

LiveSteam
02-03-2013, 01:04 PM
I'm not the kind of guy who believes we should always do as the polls dictate, .

No bigger lie was ever told in DC.
You are a hoarder of Polls,links,threads,ect. Your life is a 110 watt wall outlet.

Direckshun
02-03-2013, 01:06 PM
No bigger lie was ever told in DC.
You are a hoarder of Polls

Polls are terribly important. But I have never felt they should single-handedly guide policy.

La literatura
02-03-2013, 01:12 PM
Medicare and Social Security ages need to be raised, even if Medicare does a good job of keeping down medical costs.

One thing is true: the rhetoric about insolvency is Republican strategy for tearing apart the fabric of the social safety net in this country. But so is another: when first enacted, age 65 was basically the average age of death. Modern medicine has adapted, and so should our laws.

LiveSteam
02-03-2013, 01:15 PM
Polls are terribly important. But I have never felt they should single-handedly guide policy.

& I have never jerked off to

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1650855793/photo21.jpg

Direckshun
02-03-2013, 01:16 PM
& I have never jerked off to

LMAO

ChiliConCarnage
02-03-2013, 01:40 PM
when first enacted, age 65 was basically the average age of death. Modern medicine has adapted, and so should our laws.

It's definitely a part of the issue. Unfortunately, it would make a lot of people mad so politicians have passed the buck.

There isn't a lot to do about the demographic changes though.

Back in 1950, as the baby boom was just getting started, each retiree's benefit was divided among 16 workers. Taxes could be kept low. Today, that number has dropped to 3.3 workers per retiree, and by 2025, it will reach-and remain at-about two workers per retiree.

Prison Bitch
02-03-2013, 11:10 PM
Polls are terribly important. But I have never felt they should single-handedly guide policy.

Translation: I pick the polls I want to use to base policy on. Polls that show strong support for things like gun rights or abolishing the death tax? Not good for policy.

Bewbies
02-03-2013, 11:30 PM
I read this poll as wanting someone else to pay for it. Maybe everyone polled is "rich" and would be the people paying, but I doubt it...

loochy
02-04-2013, 06:25 AM
I read this poll as wanting someone else to pay for it. Maybe everyone polled is "rich" and would be the people paying, but I doubt it...

Well of course they want the "rich" to pay for it. They are rich and I'm poor so damnit, I deserve it.

patteeu
02-04-2013, 07:03 AM
One thing is true: the rhetoric about insolvency is Republican strategy for tearing apart the fabric of the social safety net in this country.

No, that's not true. The vast majority of Republicans want to insure that we continue to have a social safety net. The rhetoric about insolvency comes from the reality that the current programs are insolvent and will soon become cash-flow insolvent as well if significant changes aren't made.

Otter
02-04-2013, 07:09 AM
Where's the "Opt Out" option?

Take my pay, before I see it, borrow from it for more than it's worth then tell me a unicorn is going to drop my a check at 65. Anyone need a further reason to hate government?

FishingRod
02-04-2013, 07:36 AM
I don’t think there should be a Cap on it but, likewise I don’t think the income taxes should be progressive. I don’t think we should leave the Tax rates as they are, Remove the cap and leave maximum amount of SS payments at the same level they are now. Most people are still are very much in favor of “other people” paying more.

Though I am not a religious person I think tithing where the poorest and richest person in the group giving the same % is a logical and fair plan that if followed for taxes would be better for everyone.

petegz28
02-04-2013, 07:44 AM
It was a Ponzi scheme when it was designed and it still is.

BigRedChief
02-04-2013, 07:45 AM
No, that's not true. The vast majority of Republicans want to insure that we continue to have a social safety net. The rhetoric about insolvency comes from the reality that the current programs are insolvent and will soon become cash-flow insolvent as well if significant changes aren't made.Social Security is fine for another 25 years. It's so healthy we keep taking money out of it to pay for other things. The issue is people taking out money that never paid in and people getting 3X the money they put into the fund.

That being said, it still needs to be fixed for even more of a long term solution. Retirement is a long term plan.

Maybe means testing. If you have plenty of money you don't get the check. If your fortunes change, you get the money and back date to when you would have started drawing.

Raise the age to 67 for everyone 50 and under

Raise the FICA tax in paychecks

petegz28
02-04-2013, 07:49 AM
Social Security is fine for another 25 years. It's so healthy we keep taking money out of it to pay for other things. The issue is people taking out money that never paid in and people getting 3X the money they put into the fund.

That being said, it still needs to be fixed for even more of a long term solution. Retirement is a long term plan.

Maybe means testing. If you have plenty of money you don't get the check. If your fortunes change, you get the money and back date to when you would have started drawing.

Raise the age to 67 for everyone 50 and under

Raise the FICA tax in paychecks

how does raising the FICA tax fix people getting more than they paid in?

patteeu
02-04-2013, 07:52 AM
Social Security is fine for another 25 years. It's so healthy we keep taking money out of it to pay for other things. The issue is people taking out money that never paid in and people getting 3X the money they put into the fund.

That being said, it still needs to be fixed for even more of a long term solution. Retirement is a long term plan.

Maybe means testing. If you have plenty of money you don't get the check. If your fortunes change, you get the money and back date to when you would have started drawing.

Raise the age to 67 for everyone 50 and under

Raise the FICA tax in paychecks

"Fine for another 25 years" is (a) an overstatement, and (b) another way of admitting that it's insolvent and will go broke in 25 years if we don't make a change.

It's an overstatement because it might seem "fine" now when the go-broke date is 25 years away, but it won't seem so "fine" 15 or 20 years from now when it's balooning the deficit (as a result of it's requirements for repayment) and on the verge of being broke.

Prison Bitch
02-04-2013, 07:53 AM
Raise the FICA tax in paychecks



Why? I'm already paying 6.4% and my employer does too. You want more than 13%? Seriously, you want to ADD to that total?

LiveSteam
02-04-2013, 07:54 AM
Raise the age to 67 for everyone 50 and under

Raise the FICA tax in paychecks

Thats bullshit & it wont be 67,more like 69 or 70.
Im not a baby boomer. I didnt fuck it up nor did my generation or those that come after me. I love how America' thinks & works now
Im a baby boomer. Lets just pass the bills off to our children & grand kids FORWARD!


This is what I think of that idea..:bang:

Garcia Bronco
02-04-2013, 08:02 AM
Figure for those born in the 70's and early 80's will get payouts of 25 percent less than today. Figure that you'll have to work 3-6 years longer and figure in the ever shrinking purchase power of dollar and you have a retirement vehicle that doesn't really exist and is completely unreliable.

You'd have to be dumber than a bag of hammers to ever think you could depend on this garbage so it makes little sense to support it.

Either the people answering this poll are stupid, or the outcome of the poll is completely FOS. I am betting the latter.

Garcia Bronco
02-04-2013, 08:05 AM
Raise the FICA tax in paychecks

FICA just went up 2 percent. And no SS is not so strong that it can be borrowed from. That's also stupid. It the borrowing from it that has caused many of these problems we now face.

petegz28
02-04-2013, 08:10 AM
I don't think the problem is how much we pay. I think the problem is how much the Fed Gov spends. But.....

LiveSteam
02-04-2013, 08:19 AM
Screw punishing me for what a bunch of tree hugging hippies from the 60s are responsible for.
You hippies all thought Haight Ashbury San-Francisco was so cool. I suggest taking you next SS check buy 30 lbs of card board, move back & set up shop

Garcia Bronco
02-04-2013, 08:20 AM
I don't think the problem is how much we pay. I think the problem is how much the Fed Gov spends. But.....

Of course its the problem. It's the same problem you would have in your household if you are engaged in deficit spending, and the only solution is to reduce spending.

Iowanian
02-04-2013, 08:25 AM
Every time Direkshun posts, it is like someone poured an old boot full of piss on a fart.

loochy
02-04-2013, 08:30 AM
Figure for those born in the 70's and early 80's will get payouts of 25 percent less than today. Figure that you'll have to work 3-6 years longer and figure in the ever shrinking purchase power of dollar and you have a retirement vehicle that doesn't really exist and is completely unreliable.

You'd have to be dumber than a bag of hammers to ever think you could depend on this garbage so it makes little sense to support it.

Either the people answering this poll are stupid, or the outcome of the poll is completely FOS. I am betting the latter.

I've just completely written it off in my mind and I don't expect that I will see a dime of what I pay in. If I do end up getting something, it'll be a nice bonus that I can use to buy a hamburger or something once a month. If I don't get anything, I just consider what I pay in just be another form of taxation.

BigRedChief
02-04-2013, 09:06 AM
the R's responses are so predictable. I have no idea why I'm surprised anymore.

The Social security system has always been the current generation paying for the past generation. Your grandkids are going to be complaining about you not paying enough into the system.

Whether you like it or not the solution is to raise more revenue, raise the age and mean test. There is no magic bullet and your BS we can just cut our way out of this mess doesn't apply to this issue.

Social Security is not a R or D issue. Only the 1%'rs will never need and or use the money in retirement. The rest of the 99% have skin in the game.

patteeu
02-04-2013, 09:23 AM
the R's responses are so predictable. I have no idea why I'm surprised anymore.

The Social security system has always been the current generation paying for the past generation. Your grandkids are going to be complaining about you not paying enough into the system.

Whether you like it or not the solution is to raise more revenue, raise the age and mean test. There is no magic bullet and your BS we can just cut our way out of this mess doesn't apply to this issue.

Social Security is not a R or D issue. Only the 1%'rs will never need and or use the money in retirement. The rest of the 99% have skin in the game.

You proposed two methods of cutting our way out of this mess yourself.

It appears that d's are pretty predictable too. They generally don't admit to understanding the problem we have with entitlements.

Bewbies
02-04-2013, 09:44 AM
the R's responses are so predictable. I have no idea why I'm surprised anymore.

The Social security system has always been the current generation paying for the past generation. Your grandkids are going to be complaining about you not paying enough into the system.

Whether you like it or not the solution is to raise more revenue, raise the age and mean test. There is no magic bullet and your BS we can just cut our way out of this mess doesn't apply to this issue.

Social Security is not a R or D issue. Only the 1%'rs will never need and or use the money in retirement. The rest of the 99% have skin in the game.

I know it sounds harsh, but I'd prefer people are responsible for themselves, and their families. Starting with myself.

I actually don't mind the safety net, but one should get out what they put in, not 10's-100's of times as much. I have a huge problem with people putting in $20-$30k in their lifetime and then drawing out $300k before they die. That's a huge, huge problem.

BigRedChief
02-04-2013, 09:47 AM
You proposed two methods of cutting our way out of this mess yourself.

It appears that d's are pretty predictable too. They generally don't admit to understanding the problem we have with entitlements.I agree that the D's have the same issue with entitlements as republicans have with raising taxes. They both see them as compromising their principles. But, both sides of the aisles are wrong.

Each side of the political party's has a beloved president that compromised for the benefit of the country. Unless you want a dictatorship, compromise is how we will govern this country for the foreseeable future.

Yes, I realize that I proposed cuts but without the revenue part, it will never pass.

King_Chief_Fan
02-04-2013, 12:22 PM
Thats bullshit & it wont be 67,more like 69 or 70.
Im not a baby boomer. I didnt **** it up nor did my generation or those that come after me. I love how America' thinks & works now
Im a baby boomer. Lets just pass the bills off to our children & grand kids FORWARD!


This is what I think of that idea..:bang:

hey doofus...you do realize it is the baby boomers who have paid in the most over their life and are the first generation to proabably have to take reduced benefits. They have already been changed to age 66 for full beneifts. Each generation since the begining of SS have paid for the generation behind.
However, you point is well taken in regards to our children and grand children. I will be happy for gov to just hand over to me what I have put in and we will call it square.
I planned on receiving less or no benefit from SS and 401K, pension and investments are my retirement account.

alpha_omega
02-04-2013, 03:46 PM
Shit man....just print some more money and put it in there!

Taco John
02-04-2013, 04:55 PM
I would prefer an opt out option. I'm perfectly fine with the social safety net existing to the degree that those who want to participate in it can sustain it.

For my part, I would prefer to opt out of it, not claim any benefits, and use my money to fund my own retirement.

BigRedChief
02-04-2013, 05:03 PM
I would prefer an opt out option. I'm perfectly fine with the social safety net existing to the degree that those who want to participate in it can sustain it.

For my part, I would prefer to opt out of it, not claim any benefits, and use my money to fund my own retirement.The only problem with that is if your brilliant plan for retirement doesn't work out, what are you going to do? Kill yourself or live off the government dole?

cosmo20002
02-04-2013, 05:07 PM
Screw punishing me for what a bunch of tree hugging hippies from the 60s are responsible for.
You hippies all thought Haight Ashbury San-Francisco was so cool. I suggest taking you next SS check buy 30 lbs of card board, move back & set up shop

Stoner from the 70s/80s/90s/00s/10s cracking on hippies from the 60s.

ROFL

KILLER_CLOWN
02-04-2013, 05:16 PM
How many Muricans does it take to strengthen social security?

I'll tell ya next election cycle!

/Politicians

Bewbies
02-04-2013, 05:32 PM
The only problem with that is if your brilliant plan for retirement doesn't work out, what are you going to do? Kill yourself or live off the government dole?

Keep working? God forbid!

Prison Bitch
02-04-2013, 05:42 PM
Opt out cannot work because people would elect it, then vote themselves gravy if it doesn't work out later. It's an either-or system. No different than paying into the public school system. If you want an opt out, you have to first end the program itself. That has zero chance of passing te US congress.

patteeu
02-04-2013, 06:01 PM
Opt out cannot work because people would elect it, then vote themselves gravy if it doesn't work out later. It's an either-or system. No different than paying into the public school system. If you want an opt out, you have to first end the program itself. That has zero chance of passing te US congress.

Agree.

Taco John
02-04-2013, 06:40 PM
The only problem with that is if your brilliant plan for retirement doesn't work out, what are you going to do? Kill yourself or live off the government dole?

I would expect that in cases like that, you could have what I would consider a true social safety net - something that an individual could only access if they passed the means test for it. I would expect it would be enough to live on, but maybe not so comfortably. Something like that would be a lot cheaper and probably much more effective than the system we have now.

mlyonsd
02-04-2013, 06:52 PM
I'd implement something where workers are allowed to pay into a plan used only at a predetermined retirement age that is never taxed. Like a 401K with a limit per year and only for those under the age of say 35.

At the same time raising their retirement age to 70.

BigRedChief
02-04-2013, 07:01 PM
I would expect that in cases like that, you could have what I would consider a true social safety net - something that an individual could only access if they passed the means test for it. I would expect it would be enough to live on, but maybe not so comfortably. Something like that would be a lot cheaper and probably much more effective than the system we have now.Your speaking of a fantasy world. Never pass or get approval.

I know you hate to admit it but Social Security is government at its best. A social safety net provided to all and all contribute.

Garcia Bronco
02-04-2013, 08:25 PM
Skin in the game? But I have to play? Fuck you. Its slavery.

LiveSteam
02-04-2013, 09:46 PM
Skin in the game? But I have to play? Fuck you. Its slavery.

If you can? 1099 = Freedom