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View Full Version : I think the entire concept of "VALUE" in the draft is obsolete.


Chris Meck
02-07-2013, 01:16 PM
All this bullshit from Kiper/McShay types and the value board is all based on the prior CBA. With the new rules, I think that value board is right out the fucking window.

I think it's simply a case of the pundits not catching up to the new reality. A QB that is a potential franchise guy is worth infinitely more than any other position-especially because you don't have to pay him like one on a rookie contract anymore. THIS totally negates all prior thinking and is the reason, IMO, that the Kipers etc. don't like Geno at #1 but will mock him as early as #8 and call it "VALUE".

Come draft day, they're going to be like Karl Rove on election night.

A Salt Weapon
02-07-2013, 01:17 PM
I agree.

KC_Lee
02-07-2013, 02:09 PM
All this bullshit from Kiper/McShay types and the value board is all based on the prior CBA. With the new rules, I think that value board is right out the ****ing window.

I think it's simply a case of the pundits not catching up to the new reality. A QB that is a potential franchise guy is worth infinitely more than any other position-especially because you don't have to pay him like one on a rookie contract anymore. THIS totally negates all prior thinking and is the reason, IMO, that the Kipers etc. don't like Geno at #1 but will mock him as early as #8 and call it "VALUE".

Come draft day, they're going to be like Karl Rove on election night.

Agree 100%!! With the rookie wage scale in place the days of the high priced rookie bust costing a franchise for years is gone.

Here's what "VALUE" get you, 9 - 7 / 10 - 6 and lose in the first round for years and years.

ptlyon
02-07-2013, 02:16 PM
Once again, Meck gets it right!

Deberg_1990
02-07-2013, 02:30 PM
Meck gets it

ptlyon
02-07-2013, 02:37 PM
1,032 posts. He sure thinks a lot.

Chris Meck
02-07-2013, 02:40 PM
1,032 posts. He sure thinks a lot.

I listen more and talk less. :)

ptlyon
02-07-2013, 02:49 PM
I just find it ironic I guess. I've read some good shit that youve put out over the years, and it's hard to believe you have that few of posts.

Ace Gunner
02-07-2013, 02:51 PM
they are paid to promote -er um discuss the NFL so, you are going to read plenty of "business as usual" parroting from those folks.

Chris Meck
02-07-2013, 02:56 PM
It just seems so obvious, with the rules changes of the last few years, and the new CBA that the entire idea of 'value' at any given draft spot is horseshit. If you don't have a QB you're not going anywhere. No LT or damned LB is going to do make that big of a difference-not if you don't have a plus player at QB.
Andy Dalton is literally worth more than Joekel will ever be.

NJChiefsFan
02-08-2013, 12:58 AM
People, this fan base as much as any, get locked in on building a roster and then putting the QB in as the final piece. It should be the top 5 things on the list for a franchise trying to get into the big boy games. You can win without a perfect team. You can't win without a QB. There will be a year will a team pulls out a shocking SB win with an average QB, but its completely irresponsible to plan and hope for that as a front office. That's what Pioli attempted to do. It's what true fans are content doing.

BryanBusby
02-08-2013, 01:35 AM
Value is far from obsolete. The issue is people like Kiper and McShay really don't know shit when it comes to determining what teams actually consider to be values and reaches and also don't really consider player x holds a lot more value in system y instead of z.

They honestly don't care if drafting another lineman for a team that has absolutely fucking nothing at QB is ridiculous, because uh hey dis grossly underpaid or not paid at all intern gave slapdick takcle a 95 grade while whatever top grade QB only got a 89 grade.

Than this shit goes to the moon because a lot of Chiefs fans are literally fucking retarded and think Martyball is the way to go. Value is still a great and relevant thing, but there has to be logic to it. Kiper and McShay thinking the worst team with 0 QB's need to draft linemenz has no logic, while just sittin back and getting great value in ways that make sense like the Giants actually does.

Once people realize the Chiefs were the worst team in professional football and that they really can't be afforded the luxury of just going for that sweet value, rational general discussion will take place. Judging by the fact that many think the best solution is to "fix" Matt Cassel, it'll never happen.

Chris Meck
02-08-2013, 12:02 PM
I don't mean to say that the entire concept of 'value' is dead; what I mean is that the idea of draft slotting and the inherent value of THAT is completely irrelevant now.

No LT is worth more than a plus player at QB. None. So that 89 QB is worth much, much more than that 95 LT.

I kind of set my baseline for plus player at QB as being Andy Dalton. He's sort of what I consider the leastmost of the plus Qb's. You can win with that guy. He's probably like the 10th or 11th or 12th best QB in the league. It's tough to win with lesser guys.

Andy Dalton is worth much, much more than Joekel to a team that has no QB. Much more.

So I think as you're setting up for the draft, the question is, does your team have a QB that is at LEAST as good as Andy Dalton? No? Then you take the best QB available. No other player at any position will matter more. None. If you take a swing and the player busts, it's no longer a franchise killer financially due to the CBA. Take a chance. If it doesn't work out, try again next year.

Buehler445
02-08-2013, 02:51 PM
People, this fan base as much as any, get locked in on building a roster and then putting the QB in as the final piece. It should be the top 5 things on the list for a franchise trying to get into the big boy games. You can win without a perfect team. You can't win without a QB. There will be a year will a team pulls out a shocking SB win with an average QB, but its completely irresponsible to plan and hope for that as a front office. That's what ***** attempted to do. It's what true fans are content doing.

Irresponsible is a fantastic word choice. That is precisely what it is.

htismaqe
02-11-2013, 03:19 PM
I don't mean to say that the entire concept of 'value' is dead; what I mean is that the idea of draft slotting and the inherent value of THAT is completely irrelevant now.

No LT is worth more than a plus player at QB. None. So that 89 QB is worth much, much more than that 95 LT.

I kind of set my baseline for plus player at QB as being Andy Dalton. He's sort of what I consider the leastmost of the plus Qb's. You can win with that guy. He's probably like the 10th or 11th or 12th best QB in the league. It's tough to win with lesser guys.

Andy Dalton is worth much, much more than Joekel to a team that has no QB. Much more.

So I think as you're setting up for the draft, the question is, does your team have a QB that is at LEAST as good as Andy Dalton? No? Then you take the best QB available. No other player at any position will matter more. None. If you take a swing and the player busts, it's no longer a franchise killer financially due to the CBA. Take a chance. If it doesn't work out, try again next year.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Pasta Giant Meatball
02-11-2013, 06:27 PM
You either have a QB or you don't. You can win with a lesser team with a Franchise QB, so pull the trigger till you get one.

Oz_Chief
02-16-2013, 09:37 PM
You either have a QB or you don't. You can win with a lesser team with a Franchise QB, so pull the trigger till you get one.

I agree with this.

Also, I think most of the debate comes from the pundits treating value and BPA/BAA as universal and constant for every team. It is inaccurate to think that only one best player is always on the board. Best player is a function of several variables. BPA for the Colts is different than BPA for the Chiefs for example.