PDA

View Full Version : Chiefs Here's something I didn't expect: remember Colin Brown?


Direckshun
03-09-2013, 10:12 PM
Hilariously terrible 5th round selection by Scott ***** in the famed horrific 2009 draft class?

Something like the 57th rated tackle that year?

He just got a two-year extension (http://musketfire.com/2013/02/16/buffalo-bills-give-colin-brown-two-years/) with the Buffalo Bills, who play him at guard but really like him at center:

Best fit as a center (he can also play guard and even tackle), Brown was placed on the injured reserve back in October with hamstring injury, as it seemed like every Bills offensive lineman was going down with some sort of an ailment. Brown looked solid in the lone game he played this season, as he was thrust into the starting line-up at right guard in the blowout loss against the San Francisco 49ers. Brown, who filled in for Kraig Urbik (out with a high-ankle sprain), made a strong impact during his time in the game as both a run blocker and pass protector.

Generally well-liked by the fans, Colin Brown was expected to get roughly $1.3 million in restricted free agency on a one-year tender, and instead he will be getting a little bit over $1.4 million for two seasons. Still, Brown’s spot on the Buffalo Bills 2013 53-man roster is far from guaranteed, but he should be able to make it through training camp and the preseason with a spot on the roster. Brown, again, showed some promise against the 49ers and has the kind of versatility that makes him a valuable backup offensive lineman in the NFL.

The NFL, man. You never know.

Direckshun
03-09-2013, 10:13 PM
Drafted by the Chiefs. Never played a game.

Played a year in the UFL.

Ravens picked him up, Bills claimed him when the Ravens waived him.

The Bills kept him as a reserve then played him as a 6th lineman the past couple years, and he even started a couple games.

Man. Who the hell knew.

Count Alex's Losses
03-09-2013, 10:14 PM
http://i.imgur.com/O6j0z8M.gif

Direckshun
03-09-2013, 10:14 PM
LMAO

Rudy lost the toss
03-09-2013, 10:14 PM
Siavii with the Cowboys and Seahawks was quite puzzling.

Count Alex's Losses
03-09-2013, 10:15 PM
I have no idea why he was extended. He's played less than 160 snaps in 2 years.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-09-2013, 10:16 PM
The guy is still a worthless piece of shit.

Direckshun
03-09-2013, 10:20 PM
The 2009 draft class:

1. DE Tyson Jackson, LSU -- still a solid-ish starter for the Chiefs

2. traded for QB Matt Cassel, who single-handedly got Pioli fired LMAO

3. DE Alex Magee, Purdue -- played in the Arena Football League for the Utah Blaze last year, holy shit what a terrible pick.

4. CB Donald Washington, Ohio State -- been out of professional football since the Chiefs cut him last summer

5. OT Colin Brown, Chiefs -- see OP

6. WR Quinten Lawrence, McNeese State -- turned into a pretty good reserve DB eventually, played reserve safety for the Dolphins last year

7. RB Javarris Williams, Tennessee State -- spent last season deep on the Redskins depth chart (his fifth team)

7. TE Jake O'Connell, Miami (OH) -- still with the Chiefs

Direckshun
03-09-2013, 10:21 PM
I have no idea why he was extended. He's played less than 160 snaps in 2 years.

They like his versatility. LMAO

Direckshun
03-09-2013, 10:22 PM
And yes, I'll have everybody know, I defended the Magee pick as good value.

Basically, never listen to what I say about anything.

Dicky McElephant
03-09-2013, 10:22 PM
The Bills.

Extend Colin Brown but don't make an offer to Andy Levitre.

God they're horrible.

Direckshun
03-09-2013, 10:23 PM
The Bills.

Extend Colin Brown but don't make an offer to Andy Levitre.

God they're horrible.

LMAO

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-09-2013, 10:24 PM
Quinten Lawrence is now a fucking safety?

Holy shit, that is the worst draft ever.

Direckshun
03-09-2013, 10:25 PM
Quinten Lawrence is now a ****ing safety?

Holy shit, that is the worst draft ever.

He played corner for us that last preseason. I believe it was 2011? He looked far better playing that than he did receiver.

Don't you immerse yourself in these details? How can I take you seriously if you do not?

Count Alex's Losses
03-09-2013, 10:25 PM
I'm going to go dig up reactions to Colin Brown right now. I bet there are some doozies.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-09-2013, 10:26 PM
He played corner for us that last preseason. I believe it was 2011? He looked far better playing that than he did receiver.

Don't you immerse yourself in these details? How can I take you seriously if you do not?

That preseason I was primarily occupied with my children not dying.

Direckshun
03-09-2013, 10:26 PM
That preseason I was primarily occupied with my children not dying.

LMAO

Direckshun
03-09-2013, 10:27 PM
I'm going to go dig up reactions to Colin Brown right now. I bet there are some doozies.

I am proud to say that I never got behind that pick.

I do remember milkman saying he suspected Pioli put him on IR because he bets Brown was actually pretty good, and couldn't risk placing him on the practice squad.

DeezNutz
03-09-2013, 10:29 PM
Mizzou fans shredded that pick.

Count Alex's Losses
03-09-2013, 10:30 PM
LMAO

Love Blick trying to be a homer.

Colin Brown??

Are you fucking serious?


And we take some OT I've never heard of.

holy shit who?


ROFL

Colin Brown is obviously better than Duke Robinson.

For those of you who were clamoring for a WTF pick - there is your WTF pick.

Seriously.... NFL.com has zero information on Brown. No height, weight, or even college. LMAO

26 career starts...smart kid...trying to look at the bright side...

He's a stiff. He was good at getting smoked around the edge or inside with wide splits and almost giving up a sack on a drag route.

Any time you can take the 58th rated OT in the fifth round, you've gotta make that move.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-09-2013, 10:31 PM
Colin Brown??

Are you fucking serious?

...

Count Alex's Losses
03-09-2013, 10:32 PM
4 years later Johnny Knox almost died, Duke Robinson never played a snap in the NFL and Jamon Meredith is a turnstile...so that wasn't a horrible pick.

DeezNutz
03-09-2013, 10:33 PM
Whatever, Pioli was the alt mock of the NFL.

Direckshun
03-09-2013, 10:33 PM
...

HEY NOW.

Four years later, the guy is a quality backup interior lineman.

Props are in order.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-09-2013, 10:33 PM
Robinson never played a snap? Wow.

Direckshun
03-09-2013, 10:33 PM
Whatever, ***** was the alt mock of the NFL.

LMAO

Dicky McElephant
03-09-2013, 10:35 PM
Whatever, ***** was the alt mock of the NFL.

Has anyone seen cachiefsfan and Pioli in the same room?

Direckshun
03-09-2013, 10:37 PM
I remember when the Bears drafted Al Afalava in the 6th round.

I was like ... Al Afalava! Bears fans are going ot love Al Afalava.

Al Afalava played a little while for them and then the Bears let Al Afalava go.

Then the Titans were like... hey Al Afalava. How would you like to play for us.

Al Afalava had no choice.

Al Afalava was out of options.

So you know what Al Afalava did?

Al Afalava worked Al Afalava's ass off.

And to this day, Al Afalava is on the roster in Tennessee.

God bless, Al Afalava.

God bless.

Al Afalava.

crossbow
03-09-2013, 10:44 PM
The morning after that draft I woke up hoping the whole thing was a bad dream and never realy happened. That was terrible. He basicaly spent 7 rounds to get one starter. He completely blew off Herm's scouts and shot from the hip. Ego.

Direckshun
03-09-2013, 10:46 PM
I wonder how different this draft would have been, had he not drafted Colin Brown, but instead drafted




















































Al Afalava.

Count Alex's Losses
03-09-2013, 10:52 PM
***** didn't have a single 5th round pick worth shit as it turned out.

Colin Brown
Kendrick Lewis
Cameron Sheffield
Ricky Stanzi
Gabe Miller
DeQuan Menzie

A big pile of shit.

And he cut Brandon Carr, our best 5th rounder since Scott Fujita.

Sweet Daddy Hate
03-09-2013, 11:41 PM
Quinten Lawrence is now a fucking safety?

Holy shit, that is the worst draft ever.

You quite possibly ain't seen SHIT just yet....
Posted via Mobile Device

Sweet Daddy Hate
03-09-2013, 11:42 PM
Oh, and "COLON BLOW"!!!ftw
Posted via Mobile Device

Frosty
03-09-2013, 11:53 PM
I wonder how different this draft would have been, had he not drafted Colin Brown, but instead drafted

Al Afalava.

They should have drafted Afalava. Good back up safety and special teams player. They should have also taken Sammie Stroughter instead of Quintin Lawrence. He is a decent returner and decent depth at WR.

Still disappointed.

Rudy lost the toss
03-10-2013, 12:01 AM
Could have had Xavier Fulton

lcarus
03-10-2013, 12:01 AM
The NFL, man. You never know.

True story man. I think being a GM of an NFL franchise would be tougher than some people think. Then again, a complete and total reject like Fat Scott has absolutely ZERO chance of being a successful GM.

OrtonsPiercedTaint
03-10-2013, 05:44 AM
"Colin Brown was expected to get roughly $1.3 million in restricted free agency on a one-year tender, and instead he will be getting a little bit over $1.4 million for two seasons."

I want to be worthless too... :deevee:

ChiefGator
03-10-2013, 06:08 AM
Well, at least the 2nd round pick that year wasn't completely wasted, it did eventually get Pioli flushed. Although, I would argue that no matter how bad Cassel turned out, it was really Pioli's insistence to keep him unfettered as the starter that eventually flushed him.

theelusiveeightrop
03-10-2013, 06:35 AM
The Bills may possibly be more screwed up than we were.( not are, he says hopefully...........)

Fritz88
03-10-2013, 06:37 AM
The 2009 draft class:

1. DE Tyson Jackson, LSU -- still a solid-ish starter for the Chiefs

2. traded for QB Matt Cassel, who single-handedly got Pioli fired LMAO

3. DE Alex Magee, Purdue -- played in the Arena Football League for the Utah Blaze last year, holy shit what a terrible pick.

4. CB Donald Washington, Ohio State -- been out of professional football since the Chiefs cut him last summer

5. OT Colin Brown, Chiefs -- see OP

6. WR Quinten Lawrence, McNeese State -- turned into a pretty good reserve DB eventually, played reserve safety for the Dolphins last year

7. RB Javarris Williams, Tennessee State -- spent last season deep on the Redskins depth chart (his fifth team)

7. TE Jake O'Connell, Miami (OH) -- still with the Chiefs

Could this be the worst of all time?
Posted via Mobile Device

Pasta Giant Meatball
03-10-2013, 09:53 AM
4 years later Johnny Knox almost died, Duke Robinson never played a snap in the NFL and Jamon Meredith is a turnstile...so that wasn't a horrible pick.

I remember people wanting and getting PISSED we didn't snag those guys in the 3rd :LOL: Meredith was some kind of golden god on here.

Pasta Giant Meatball
03-10-2013, 09:55 AM
If we really did cut Winston just to draft Jokell, it'll be just as bad as that pile of shit.

thabear04
03-10-2013, 10:33 AM
Could this be the worst of all time?
Posted via Mobile Device

Well we did trade Magee to the bucs for a 4th round I think.

thabear04
03-10-2013, 10:35 AM
Don't forget that year we had last pick and got Ryan Succop

Sweet Daddy Hate
03-10-2013, 11:10 AM
If we really did cut Winston just to draft Jokell, it'll be just as bad as that pile of shit.

This, and there is NO defending such a move.
Posted via Mobile Device

Pasta Giant Meatball
03-10-2013, 11:12 AM
This, and there is NO defending such a move.
Posted via Mobile Device

When you can get such a haul as a Right Tackle for going 2-14, you just HAVE to jump on that shit. :banghead:

KCChiefsFan88
03-10-2013, 11:23 AM
The 2009 draft class:

1. DE Tyson Jackson, LSU -- still a solid-ish starter for the Chiefs

2. traded for QB Matt Cassel, who single-handedly got ***** fired LMAO

3. DE Alex Magee, Purdue -- played in the Arena Football League for the Utah Blaze last year, holy shit what a terrible pick.

4. CB Donald Washington, Ohio State -- been out of professional football since the Chiefs cut him last summer

5. OT Colin Brown, Chiefs -- see OP

6. WR Quinten Lawrence, McNeese State -- turned into a pretty good reserve DB eventually, played reserve safety for the Dolphins last year

7. RB Javarris Williams, Tennessee State -- spent last season deep on the Redskins depth chart (his fifth team)

7. TE Jake O'Connell, Miami (OH) -- still with the Chiefs

The worst draft class in Chiefs history? Would be hard to argue against that.

Sweet Daddy Hate
03-10-2013, 11:31 AM
When you can get such a haul as a Right Tackle for going 2-14, you just HAVE to jump on that shit. :banghead:

AMEN!/Lil Chiefy
Posted via Mobile Device

JohnnyHammersticks
03-10-2013, 11:41 AM
The 2009 draft class:

1. DE Tyson Jackson, LSU -- still a solid-ish starter for the Chiefs

2. traded for QB Matt Cassel, who single-handedly got ***** fired LMAO

3. DE Alex Magee, Purdue -- played in the Arena Football League for the Utah Blaze last year, holy shit what a terrible pick.

4. CB Donald Washington, Ohio State -- been out of professional football since the Chiefs cut him last summer

5. OT Colin Brown, Chiefs -- see OP

6. WR Quinten Lawrence, McNeese State -- turned into a pretty good reserve DB eventually, played reserve safety for the Dolphins last year

7. RB Javarris Williams, Tennessee State -- spent last season deep on the Redskins depth chart (his fifth team)

7. TE Jake O'Connell, Miami (OH) -- still with the Chiefs

"On June 24, 2009, ESPN.com announced its All-Decade Moments naming Scott ***** Personnel Man of the Decade. "No one in the league does a better job of scouting their own team, and [at the Patriots] ***** was orchestrating all of that."

:facepalm:

58-4ever
03-10-2013, 12:10 PM
Crazy, he's still fighting for a roster spot. Man, you never know... sometimes guys are exactly the same. That's weirding me out and shit. Mind = blown.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 12:39 PM
Yeah, I forgot Succop.

And we landed Belcher as a UDFA.

Really, you're looking at a good starter, a consistent kicker, a reserve TE, a reserve OL, a trade for a 5th round pick (which became Cameron Sheffield, I think?), and a solid three year starter at ILB (could have been more if he hadn't... yeah). Plus a second round pick for three-plus years of a subpar starting QB.

It wasn't a good draft, but calling it the worst ever is silly. It's probably not even the worst Chiefs draft ever.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 12:54 PM
Good draft.

2010

Eric Berry -- Pro Bowler

Dexter McCluster -- some will disagree but he's a solid contributor

Javier Arenas -- starting-caliber corner, one of the league's best punt returners

Jon Asamoah -- starting guard

Tony Moeaki -- starting tight end, really damn good when he's not an injured bitch

Kendrick Lewis -- starting safety

Cameron Sheffield -- injury really stalled any chance he had

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 12:56 PM
Javier Arenas is not a starting caliber corner. JFC.

McCluster and Moeaki are wastes of space too, who need to be replaced.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 12:57 PM
2011

Johnathan Baldwin -- starting WR

Rodney Hudson -- starting C

Justing Houston -- Pro Bowler

Allen Bailey -- situational DE

Jalil Brown -- reserve CB

Ricky Stanzi -- third stringer, on verge of getting cut, but will almost certainly land somewhere

Gabe Miller -- cut in 2011, bounced around, currently a reserve for the Bears

Jerrell Powe -- backup NT

Shane Bannon -- shit FB, cut immediately, out of NFL

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 12:59 PM
All things considered, our drafts under Pioli were as strong as anybody's in the league. I'd say we were a Top 8 drafting team in Pioli's years. That darts up to the Top 4 or 5 when you include Herm's final year.

It was that fucking QB position that he just never fixed. Ever.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 01:01 PM
All things considered, our drafts under ***** were as strong as anybody's in the league. .

Apart from the total lack of playmakers. :rolleyes:

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 01:02 PM
The big question mark, still:

2012

Dontari Poe -- starting NT

Jeff Allen -- starting guard

Donald Stephenson -- swing tackle, maybe a starter at RT

Devon Wylie -- reserve WR

DeQuan Menzie -- reserve CB/S

Cyrus Gray -- reserve RB

Jerome Long -- placed on practice squad, scooped up by another team

Junior Hemingway -- bobbed on and off the 2012 roster, currently out of the NFL

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 01:10 PM
Apart from the total lack of playmakers. :rolleyes:

Oh come on now. ***** completely shit the bed at QB. Aside form that, he was an adequate GM:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/picture.php?albumid=148&pictureid=1318

This is the team he assembled if it were to start today. All the grey are players he drafted. The green are the players he extended. Blue is for the player he traded for (Cassel) and orange is for the franchise-tag-extended Bowe.

It's not like Andy Reid inherited the 2008 Chiefs. That team was a cluster****.

Of course, that's not to defend Pioli's firing. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 01:17 PM
Adequate GMs don't blow picks on Arenas, McCluster, Baldwin, Bailey, who are all utterly fucking worthless, and probably a couple more garbage picks from 2012.

And throw in 2009 as a disaster.

Justin Houston and Eric Berry are good players. 0 other playmakers. ZERO. In four drafts. Inexcusable.

notorious
03-10-2013, 01:19 PM
2011

Johnathan Baldwin -- starting WR




ROFL

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 01:21 PM
Adequate GMs don't blow picks on Arenas, McCluster, Baldwin, Bailey, who are all utterly ****ing worthless, and probably a couple more garbage picks from 2012.

And throw in 2009 as a disaster.

2009 is what average drafts look like, honestly.

A few starters, a couple reserves, and a few busts.

We forget that because we've been repeating the "2009 was an abortion!" mantra for four years. But it wasn't, at least not the draft.

The biggest crime of the 2009 draft was trading the high 2nd for Matt Cassel, who basically single-handedly torpedoed this franchise for four years while ***** played the fiddle.

Getting pissed off at that decision is 100% understandable. And if you believe that poisoned the well against the rest of the draft, that's also 100% understandable.

But calling the other picks total garbage is pretty much deadwrong.

This team has had some extremely good drafting over the past half-decade that we forget what an average draft looks like.

Check out some of the Vermeil drafts if you want to see an organization shit itself at the draft.

Cannibal
03-10-2013, 01:30 PM
The 2009 draft class:

1. DE Tyson Jackson, LSU -- still a solid-ish starter for the Chiefs

2. traded for QB Matt Cassel, who single-handedly got ***** fired LMAO

3. DE Alex Magee, Purdue -- played in the Arena Football League for the Utah Blaze last year, holy shit what a terrible pick.

4. CB Donald Washington, Ohio State -- been out of professional football since the Chiefs cut him last summer

5. OT Colin Brown, Chiefs -- see OP

6. WR Quinten Lawrence, McNeese State -- turned into a pretty good reserve DB eventually, played reserve safety for the Dolphins last year

7. RB Javarris Williams, Tennessee State -- spent last season deep on the Redskins depth chart (his fifth team)

7. TE Jake O'Connell, Miami (OH) -- still with the Chiefs

Holy Jesus, that is turrible.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 01:30 PM
Justin Houston and Eric Berry are good players. 0 other playmakers. ZERO. In four drafts. Inexcusable.

I don't know, at the same time he had to completely construct our front seven and the offensive line. So he had a shit ton of thankless heavy lifting to do.

He can hardly be blamed for the shit offensive line job he had to undertake.

But I will say he has himself to blame for the gargantuan task he gave himself for deciding to turn the smallest front seven in the NFL (Herm's Cover 2) into a radically different 2-gap 3-4, which demands the biggest front seven in the NFL.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 01:30 PM
We've been having this stupid discussion for four years now.

*****'s drafts were not good, and when you cite Javier Arenas as examples of "hits," that's all the proof your opposition needs.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 01:32 PM
Seriously. The entire 2009 draft is worthless outside Ryan Succop.

Not a single player who deserves to be on our roster, including Tyson Jackson, the 30th rated DE in the NFL.

And that's average?

GTFO.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 01:37 PM
Seriously. The entire 2009 draft is worthless outside Ryan Succop.

Not a single player who deserves to be on our roster, including Tyson Jackson, the 30th rated DE in the NFL.

And that's average?

A couple starters, a couple reserve players, and a few busts.

That's average in the NFL.

You'd like to do better than that, seeing how that's what wins in the NFL.

But an average draft isn't garbage. It's average.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 01:38 PM
I just got done explaining to you: there are 0 starters from that draft.

There's one reserve, and he was the #3 pick.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2013, 01:41 PM
All things considered, our drafts under ***** were as strong as anybody's in the league. I'd say we were a Top 8 drafting team in *****'s years. That darts up to the Top 4 or 5 when you include Herm's final year.

It was that fucking QB position that he just never fixed. Ever.

Did you just bong a quart of mercury?

The team won two fucking games last year, and it would have won zero if not for the 2008 draft class.

Pasta Giant Meatball
03-10-2013, 01:44 PM
09 an average class? I've heard it all now, haha.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 01:44 PM
I just got done explaining to you: there are 0 starters from that draft.

Tyson Jackson, Ryan Succop, Jovan Belcher.

All three are/were starting caliber players at their positions.

O'Connell and Brown are still usable reserves in the NFL.

Williams, Lawrence, and Magee were total busts.

All of this is not a big screaming deal, until you get to trading the 2nd away for Cassel. Which is clearly where all the hyperemotion against the 2009 draft comes from.

But it's misdirected hostility to take that and scorn the entire collection of players.

We can get pissed because it's not an outstanding draft, and it isn't. But drafts that are just average aren't garbage. They're just average.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 01:44 PM
Pioli was fired, Direckshun.

You can stop defending him.

You lost.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 01:45 PM
Did you just bong a quart of mercury?

The team won two ****ing games last year, and it would have won zero if not for the 2008 draft class.

This team won two games because it had the league's worst head coach and the league's worst offensive coordinator and the league's worst quarterbacks.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 01:45 PM
***** was fired, Direckshun.

You can stop defending him.

You lost.

Just talking football.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2013, 01:46 PM
Jake O'Connell is the worst TE I have ever seen.
Alex Magee washed out after a year as a third round pick.
Matt Cassel was the worst starting QB in the league.
Tyson Jackson is one of the biggest reaches in NFL history.
Javarris Williams and Quinten Lawrence did absolutely nothing in the NFL
Ryan Succop is nothing more than a mediocre NFL kicker.
Brown has played in one? NFL game
Washington wasn't good enough to start for a completely depleted secondary and caught on absolutely nowhere else.

That draft is nothing other than hot garbage. I know you originally gave it a high grade after giving the 2008 draft a fucking C. That's the only rationale I can muster for why you'd defend such an atrocious pile of shit as that draft.

Pasta Giant Meatball
03-10-2013, 01:46 PM
This team won two games because it had the league's worst head coach and the league's worst offensive coordinator and the league's worst quarterbacks.

With horrible contributions from a guy taken 3rd overall in 09 and a garbage QB dealt for an 09 2nd. T-Jack was horrible last year...HORRIBLE.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 01:46 PM
Tyson Jackson, Ryan Succop, Jovan Belcher.

All three are/were starting caliber players at their positions.


Sorry, no.

Jackson has proven to be a backup caliber player. 30th ranked DE = backup caliber.

Jovan Belcher is fucking dead and he wasn't even a draft pick.

Ryan Succop was a good pick but clearly the rest of that class is garbage.

I'm glad we got some depth with the #3 pick though.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 01:47 PM
Just talking football.

Direckshun, Pioli draft troll.

Pasta Giant Meatball
03-10-2013, 01:48 PM
Just wait though. We just released a Top 5 RT to make room to draft the Pillsbury Dough Boy at number one overall. That may top the dumbassery from 09.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2013, 01:48 PM
I'm trying to figure out how someone who probably has more penalties and drops than catches is a usable TE.

Chiefburger
03-10-2013, 01:48 PM
Even so, most starters on a 2-14 team would be reserves elsewhere.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 01:51 PM
Jake O'Connell is the worst TE I have ever seen.

Lordy. That's laughable.

He's not even the worst TE the Chiefs have had this decade.

This is what I'm talking about. Seriously.

The justifiable angst about the Matt Cassel acquisition gets bled out across any player, acquisition, or coach that wasn't amazing. During the Cassel era, Chiefs fans on CP decided that there was no spectrum between garbage and great. Only that there was great, and anything short of that was automatically garbage.

That's fine, you've got to cope with the Cassel era somehow. It's just not correct.

That's how you get stuff like:

Javarris Williams and Quinten Lawrence did absolutely nothing in the NFL

Yeah, except both still serve as reserves in the NFL.

And I guess we're supposed to throw out our understanding of team sports going back to third grade and degrade everybody who isn't a stud performer at their position as "absolutely nothing," but that philosophy isn't going to get you very far.

JohnnyHammersticks
03-10-2013, 01:53 PM
Good draft.

2010

Eric Berry -- Pro Bowler

Dexter McCluster -- some will disagree but he's a solid contributor

Javier Arenas -- starting-caliber corner, one of the league's best punt returners

Jon Asamoah -- starting guard

Tony Moeaki -- starting tight end, really damn good when he's not an injured bitch

Kendrick Lewis -- starting safety

Cameron Sheffield -- injury really stalled any chance he had

I think you're making the mistake of thinking that--because these guys are starting for us--that they're actually NFL starting-caliber players. Those are two totally different things.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 01:54 PM
I think you're making the mistake of thinking that--because these guys are starting for us--that they're actually NFL starting-caliber players. Those are two totally different things.

Examples of starting caliber players from the 2009 1st round:

Hakeem Nicks
Eric Wood
Clay Matthews
Vontae Davis
Michael Oher
Percy Harvin
Brandon Pettigrew
Jeremy Maclin

Examples of shitty players who are not starting caliber: Tyson Jackson, Darrius Heward-Bey.

Just because you start a game doesn't mean you are a long-term starting caliber player in the NFL.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2013, 01:54 PM
Name a worse TE on the Chiefs than Jake O'Connell.

Merritt and Allan were totally worthless, but one could at least block and the other had some rudimentary athleticism. O'Connell was a garbage TE in a mid-major conference and only hung around b/c of the Pioli connection.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 01:55 PM
Yeah, except both still serve as reserves in the NFL.

And I guess we're supposed to throw out our understanding of team sports going back to third grade and degrade everybody who isn't a stud performer at their position as "absolutely nothing," but that philosophy isn't going to get you very far.

Javarris Williams has 6 career rushing yards.

Quinten Lawrence is a DB who has never actually played DB in the NFL.

They are absolutely fucking nothing. They don't exist, basically.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 01:56 PM
Examples of starting caliber players from the 2009 1st round:

Hakeem Nicks
Eric Wood
Clay Matthews
Vontae Davis
Michael Oher
Percy Harvin
Brandon Pettigrew
Jeremy Maclin

Examples of shitty players who are not starting caliber: Tyson Jackson, Darrius Heward-Bey.

This is exatly my point.

What you just highlighted are all Top 15 players at their position.

Everything beneathe them, during the Cassel era, is automatically hot garbage.

Tyson Jackson, because he is not amazing, is automatically garbage.

As is Succop, at least to Hamas. And on it goes.

Again, that's your jam if you want it to be. It's just not correct.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 01:57 PM
During the Cassel era, Chiefs fans on CP decided that there was no spectrum between garbage and great.

Wrong.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Jon Asamoah isn't a great player but he was a good pick and a fine starter. Many here share that opinion.

Javier Arenas is a decent reserve corner, and Tony Moeaki is OK when healthy. Slightly above average.

So you're wrong.

mcaj22
03-10-2013, 01:58 PM
im actually cheering Jake O Connell on this season to survive all the way to the final 53. Because it will not only be hilariously amazing he keeps making the team, it will piss everyone off that he takes up a roster spot for the last 5 years. Gotta love that.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 01:59 PM
Name a worse TE on the Chiefs than Jake O'Connell.

Merritt and Allan were totally worthless, but one could at least block and the other had some rudimentary athleticism. O'Connell was a garbage TE in a mid-major conference and only hung around b/c of the ***** connection.

Ah, yes. Nothing brings out Hamas' never-before-mentioned love for previous TE debacles like his ever-more-intense hatred of Pioli.

Again, it's cool. I get it. Pioli ruined the past four years because he hitched his wagons to a QB disaster. And he deserved to be fired. I'm on board.

But allowing that existential frustration to drive you to pretend like he was the Shit version of Midas is simply incorrect.

It's probably pretty satisfying, though.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 02:00 PM
This is exatly my point.

What you just highlighted are all Top 15 players at their position.


Michael Oher, Jeremy Maclin and Vontae Davis are not top 15 players. LMAO

Tyson Jackson isn't even average. He's shit. He's a decent backup because he's got some size/strength, but that's it.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2013, 02:00 PM
Direckshun--

Rate the Arizona Cardinals 2009 Draft.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2013, 02:01 PM
Ah, yes. Nothing brings out Hamas' never-before-mentioned love for previous TE debacles like his ever-more-intense hatred of *****.

Again, it's cool. I get it. ***** ruined the past four years because he hitched his wagons to a QB disaster. And he deserved to be fired. I'm on board.

But allowing that existential frustration to drive you to pretend like he was the Shit version of Midas is simply incorrect.

It's probably pretty satisfying, though.

Name a worse TE than Jake O'Connell.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 02:02 PM
Jon Asamoah isn't a great player but he was a good pick and a fine starter. Many here share that opinion.

I've got news for you: Asamoah is essentially the OL version of Tyson Jackson.

But Jackson was taken 3rd overall instead of a QB, so he gets the hate.

Asamoah was taken in the 3rd round, so he gets tolerance.

Again, I'd understand if your frustration was that Jackson never turned into an All Pro.

But his failure to become an All Pro automatically earns him the distinction of garbage.

Shrug.

mcaj22
03-10-2013, 02:03 PM
yea because he was picked 3rd overall. You are picked in the first round you better fucking start doing some sort of impact play sooner than later or you can consider your career a bust.

I'm looking at you too, Jon Turdwin

JohnnyHammersticks
03-10-2013, 02:03 PM
But you can't allude to Kendrick Lewis and say that because he starts for us, that he's a starting-caliber NFL safety. I believe that he was one of the worst--if not the worst--rated safety in the league by PFF or someone last year. Lewis wouldn't have seen playing time for 95% of teams in the league--let alone be starting. He can't tackle and he's certainly not a ball-hawk. Those are pretty much the two main criteria when discussing safety play.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2013, 02:03 PM
I've got news for you: Asamoah is essentially the OL version of Tyson Jackson.

But Jackson was taken 3rd overall instead of a QB, so he gets the hate.

Asamoah was taken in the 3rd round, so he gets tolerance.

Again, I'd understand if your frustration was that Jackson never turned into an All Pro.

But his failure to become an All Pro automatically earns him the distinction of garbage.

Shrug.

You do realize that part of drafting is identifying and extracting value, right?

That's one of the reasons why the 2009 draft was so terrible. Drafting slap dicks like Tyson Jackson #3 overall when he played like a third rounder is precisely why it was a terrible draft.

Fuck it, you're obviously trolling, because you aren't this goddamned stupid.

mcaj22
03-10-2013, 02:05 PM
But you can't allude to Kendrick Lewis and say that because he starts for us, that he's a starting-caliber NFL safety. I believe that he was one of the worst--if not the worst--rated safety in the league by PFF or someone last year. Lewis wouldn't have seen playing time for 95% of teams in the league--let alone be starting. He can't tackle and he's certainly not a ball-hawk. Those are pretty much the two main criteria when discussing safety play.

that's because

A) Scooter was bad at acquiring players
B) Scooter was bad at filling the team with depth
C) Scooter wanted to constantly play his own draft picks in hopes some of them would hit and he could look like a genius rather than the "GM that was carried by the draft picks of 2008 that were not picks of his"

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2013, 02:05 PM
The Eric Berry Pro Bowl argument is almost as absurd as the Roy Williams Pro Bowl argument at this point.

Berry has been a significant disappointment to this stage in his career and people give him the benefit of the doubt because of his knee injury and personality.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 02:05 PM
Direckshun--

Rate the Arizona Cardinals 2009 Draft.

Ummmmmmmmmm....

1.31: RB Chris Wells, Ohio State
2.63: OLB Cody Brown, UConn
3.95: S Rashad Johnson, Alabama
4.131: CB Gregory Toler, St. Pauls College
5.167: OG Herman Johnson, LSU
6.204: OLB Will Davis, Illinois
7.240: RB LaRod Stephens-Howling, Pittsburgh
7b.254: OG Trevor Canfield, Cincinnati

I don't know much about many of these players, to be honest.

I could look them up individually but I lack the motivation.

I am interested in your point, however.

Name a worse TE than Jake O'Connell.

You named both of them, and decided they were both much better for reasons that pass understanding.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 02:07 PM
I've got news for you: Asamoah is essentially the OL version of Tyson Jackson.

Bullshit.

Asamoah is a good player. He's good at things.

Tyson Jackson is a worthless space eater who doesn't make plays.



But his failure to become an All Pro automatically earns him the distinction of garbage.


Explain how this is not utter fucking garbage?

http://i.imgur.com/oNjrZYQ.jpg

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2013, 02:07 PM
Ummmmmmmmmm....

1.31: RB Chris Wells, Ohio State
2.63: OLB Cody Brown, UConn
3.95: S Rashad Johnson, Alabama
4.131: CB Gregory Toler, St. Pauls College
5.167: OG Herman Johnson, LSU
6.204: OLB Will Davis, Illinois
7.240: RB LaRod Stephens-Howling, Pittsburgh
7b.254: OG Trevor Canfield, Cincinnati

I don't know much about many of these players, to be honest.

I could look them up individually but I lack the motivation.

I am interested in your point, however.



You named both of them, and decided they were both much better for reasons that pass understanding.

1) Was a bad draft that was far better than the Chiefs'

2) Blocking, pass catching, and not committing penalties don't pass understanding.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 02:07 PM
You do realize that part of drafting is identifying and extracting value, right?

That's one of the reasons why the 2009 draft was so terrible. Drafting slap dicks like Tyson Jackson #3 overall when he played like a third rounder is precisely why it was a terrible draft.

**** it, you're obviously trolling, because you aren't this goddamned stupid.

You'd be surprised. I'm pretty stupid.

Again, I'm not arguing that Jackson is/was good value. I'm arguing that he is a good starter.

Two different arguments.

Meanwhile, you are arguing that because he wasn't good value, he is a bad player.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 02:07 PM
The Eric Berry Pro Bowl argument is almost as absurd as the Roy Williams Pro Bowl argument at this point.

Berry has been a significant disappointment to this stage in his career and people give him the benefit of the doubt because of his knee injury and personality.

Eric Berry is a starting caliber player in the NFL.

Tyson Jackson is not.

That's what Direckshun apparently doesn't understand.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 02:08 PM
2) Blocking, pass catching, and not committing penalties don't pass understanding.

Pretty easy to not commit penalties when you're never on the field.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 02:09 PM
I'm arguing that he is a good starter.


3 of his 4 seasons in the league have been spent being utterly worthless.

He's just a warm body.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 02:10 PM
3 of his 4 seasons in the league have been spent being utterly worthless.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of professional football.

A fundamental misunderstanding.

mcaj22
03-10-2013, 02:10 PM
look at all the good DL we passed over in four years to take guys like Tyson Jackson


i just dont know how you can evaluate and pick Tyson Jackson at 3rd overall but then completely whiff on BJ Raji PICKED AFTER JACKSON at 9 or Corey Leguit at #15 or whatever is much better value. Or Muhammed Wilkerson at pick 30. How do you pass on Wilkerson but pick Jackson 3rd and think "yep, better player"

all those guys were better prospects, better at the combine, better scouting reports. Like an idiot couldnt miss them

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2013, 02:10 PM
You'd be surprised. I'm pretty stupid.

Again, I'm not arguing that Jackson is/was good value. I'm arguing that he is a good starter.

Two different arguments.

Meanwhile, you are arguing that because he wasn't good value, he is a bad player.

A good starter is a top 10 player at his position. If there are 15 teams that run a 3-4, Jackson needs to be one of the ten best 3-4 DEs to be a good starter. If he's 11-20, he's adequate, if he's 20-30 he's subpar-to-replacement-level.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 02:12 PM
Tyson Jackson was outperformed by Ropati Pituatry Gland, who was a fucking street agent, and the very definition of NFL garbage. We pulled him off the scrap heap.

Two years prior Shaun Smith also shat all over Tyson Jackson.

And you want to argue that he's "starting caliber."

Nope. Just another waste of skin. You might as well argue Victor Riley was a good pick.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2013, 02:12 PM
Pretty easy to not commit penalties when you're never on the field.

It's also pretty easy to not commit penalties and drop passes if you aren't totally incompetent.

Literally no one could be worse at their job than Jake O'Connell. He's the NFL equivalent of an 85 IQ Legacy at Harvard.

mcaj22
03-10-2013, 02:13 PM
i could name 20 34 DEs or guys in the 43 that could shift to the 34 and be better than Tyson Jackson off the top of my head and it would not even be close

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 02:13 PM
A good starter is a top 10 player at his position. If there are 15 teams that run a 3-4, Jackson needs to be one of the ten best 3-4 DEs to be a good starter. If he's 11-20, he's adequate, if he's 20-30 he's subpar-to-replacement-level.

So he's got to be Pro Bowl caliber, or he's not a "good starter."

I do appreciate actually seeing the nuance of a metric, though.

At this point, this thread has had essentially two categories: Pro Bowl caliber, or garbage.

So at least we're starting to see the crease a bit.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 02:14 PM
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of professional football.

A fundamental misunderstanding.

39th ranked DE in 2009.

32nd ranked DE in 2010.

30th ranked DE in 2012.

Starting caliber!

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 02:15 PM
So he's got to be Pro Bowl caliber, or he's not a "good starter."


Actually, no.

He just has to be competent at his job. Jon Asamoah is a competent guard.

Tyson Jackson fucking sucks.

mcaj22
03-10-2013, 02:15 PM
there is a reason he took a 10 million paycut to a 4 million one, not only because his agent told him to, but what ****ing team was he going to land on and play

certainly not a 34 defense willing to pay him 4 million. He wasnt beating any other teams 34 DEs out for a starting job. Hence the paycut.

He could have probably landed on a crappy 43 team and play DT, like the Panthers, but their defense is garbage and that makes sense, but his options were clearly limited and there is NO market for him and he would have sat around in FA and farted in the wind

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 02:16 PM
It's also pretty easy to not commit penalties and drop passes if you aren't totally incompetent.

This is literally the first time I can remember you ever sticking up for Michael "division III" Allan and Mike "all this over a little weed?" Merritt.

But put out even a half-hearted defense of some of *****'s move, and sure enough this hilarity gets smoked out. I love it.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you've been a closet supporter of them this whole time.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2013, 02:17 PM
So he's got to be Pro Bowl caliber, or he's not a "good starter."

I do appreciate actually seeing the nuance of a metric, though.

At this point, this thread has had essentially two categories: Pro Bowl caliber, or garbage.

So at least we're starting to see the crease a bit.

The 10th best SS is now a Pro Bowler?

The 10th best center is now a Pro Bowler?

Jackson doesn't play a position with 150+ players on an NFL roster. There are maybe 60 3-4 DEs, max, and he can barely crack the top half of that.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 02:17 PM
You know who is a competent starter, a starting caliber DE, who wasn't the #3 overall pick, whom the Chiefs are pursuing?

Mike Devito.

That is an example of a starting caliber player who isn't a Pro Bowler, or even top 10 at his position.

And he shits on Tyson Jackson.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2013, 02:17 PM
This is literally the first time I can remember you ever sticking up for Michael Allan and Mike Merritt.

But put out even a half-hearted defense of some of *****'s move, and sure enough this hilarity gets smoked out. I love it.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you've been a closet supporter of them this whole time.

They are completely worthless. Completely worthless > O'Connell.

The only thing worse than your mocks is your command of logic. Constantly calling out people for false dichotomies when that's the only metric you are capable of thinking in, as evidenced by this thread.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 02:18 PM
39th ranked DE in 2009.

32nd ranked DE in 2010.

30th ranked DE in 2012.

Starting caliber!

Again, you are fundamentally misunderstanding.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 02:19 PM
there is a reason he took a 10 million paycut to a 4 million one, not only because his agent told him to, but what ****ing team was he going to land on and play

certainly not a 34 defense willing to pay him 4 million. He wasnt beating any other teams 34 DEs out for a starting job. Hence the paycut.

You're almost certainly wrong.

3-4 teams are almost always starving for DEs. It's a very tough position, and asks for very specific measurements.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 02:21 PM
Again, you are fundamentally misunderstanding.

I don't think so.

Tony Moeaki (when healthy) and Jon Asamoah are starting caliber players.

Tyson Jackson is not.

Very simple.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 02:22 PM
Constantly calling out people for false dichotomies when that's the only metric you are capable of thinking in, as evidenced by this thread.

Yes, indeed. What was I thinking, accusing you of hyperbole. Oh wait:

They are completely worthless. Completely worthless > O'Connell.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 02:23 PM
If Tyson Jackson doesn't offer my team anything more than Ropati Pitutarygland, he's not starting caliber.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2013, 02:26 PM
What has O'Connell done to ever prove his worth? Stay on the Chiefs roster with Scott Pioli as GM?

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 02:28 PM
A good reserve tight end is someone like Ted Popson, not guys who should be selling insurance like Jake O'Connell.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 02:29 PM
What has O'Connell done to ever prove his worth? Stay on the Chiefs roster with Scott ***** as GM?

He's been a mediocre blocker and a bad receiver.

I don't know what worth you place on a 7th rounder, but that sounds about right.

What did Michael Allan or Mike Merritt do?

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 02:33 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/srqcQXvp-Z4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

FYP

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2013, 02:33 PM
They got cut immediately, which is what should have happened during the first round of cuts in O'Connell's first PS.

Direckshun
03-10-2013, 02:35 PM
They got cut immediately, which is what should have happened during the first round of cuts in O'Connell's first PS.

They actually didn't get cut immediately.

Mike Merritt was injured when he was drafted. He healed for the first half of the season, during which he was busted with possession.

From there: his contributions were something in the vicinity of 0 tackles on special teams, and 0 snaps on offense.

I could get into Michael Allan, but I think that pretty much proves my point.

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 02:37 PM
Again: in 2 of of his 4 pro seasons, Tyson Jackson has been outperformed by street trash.

If he's starting caliber, so are guys like Turk McBride.

Pasta Giant Meatball
03-10-2013, 03:55 PM
Just curious, but where did he rank in '11?

Count Alex's Losses
03-10-2013, 03:58 PM
Just curious, but where did he rank in '11?

11th.

I think he was more motivated, because it was basically a do or die year for him. Looked lazy as fuck last year.

Sfeihc
03-10-2013, 05:37 PM
Could this be the worst of all time?
Posted via Mobile Device

D, you left out the best player from that draft. The guy in my avatar, Mr. Irrelevant, Ryan Succop.:)