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unnecessary drama
03-10-2013, 04:49 PM
some dipshit kicked/punched my side mirror off and I had to go to ebay to buy a replacement...

I am not savvy enough (I'm a dipshit) to install it myself and I am getting a little bit of work done tomorrow at an auto shop and I'm going to bring the mirror with me and ask them to install it for me...

how much should I be expecting them to charge me for that labor since I have already bought the part?

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2013, 04:50 PM
some dipshit kicked/punched my side mirror off and I had to go to ebay to buy a replacement...

I am not savvy enough (I'm a dipshit) to install it myself and I am getting a little bit of work done tomorrow at an auto shop and I'm going to bring the mirror with me and ask them to install it for me...

how much should I be expecting them to charge me for that labor since I have already bought the part?

Whatever they charge for labor is my guess.

mlyonsd
03-10-2013, 04:51 PM
1 hour service work.

theelusiveeightrop
03-10-2013, 04:53 PM
45 min- 1 hour?

JASONSAUTO
03-10-2013, 04:55 PM
Hour or less I would think.
Posted via Mobile Device

unnecessary drama
03-10-2013, 05:04 PM
what I'm trying to say is...I'm on tap for about $100 of work tomorrow and with that I don't expect to pay more than $20 for them to install the mirror...is that reasonable? If they want to charge me more I already have a friend who said he'd do it free of charge but I rather not use his time if I can just pay $20 or so when I'm already taking my car in tomorrow as is

JASONSAUTO
03-10-2013, 05:22 PM
what I'm trying to say is...I'm on tap for about $100 of work tomorrow and with that I don't expect to pay more than $20 for them to install the mirror...is that reasonable? If they want to charge me more I already have a friend who said he'd do it free of charge but I rather not use his time if I can just pay $20 or so when I'm already taking my car in tomorrow as is what do you drive?
Posted via Mobile Device

unnecessary drama
03-10-2013, 05:23 PM
audi allroad

Bwana
03-10-2013, 05:25 PM
what I'm trying to say is...I'm on tap for about $100 of work tomorrow and with that I don't expect to pay more than $20 for them to install the mirror...is that reasonable? If they want to charge me more I already have a friend who said he'd do it free of charge but I rather not use his time if I can just pay $20 or so when I'm already taking my car in tomorrow as is

$20? Best of luck with that.

unnecessary drama
03-10-2013, 05:26 PM
$20? Best of luck with that.

really?

when they are already working on the car as it is?

my friend said he'd do it for free I suppose I'll just go that route...it can't be much work whatsoever...it needs to be plugged in and bolted down...that shouldn't take someone with the necessary tools/knows what they are doing more than 10 minutes

theelusiveeightrop
03-10-2013, 05:28 PM
really?

when they are already working on the car as it is?

my friend said he'd do it for free I suppose I'll just go that route...it can't be much work whatsoever...it needs to be plugged in and bolted down...that shouldn't take someone with the necessary tools/knows what they are doing more than 10 minutes

Why did you ask us then?

seclark
03-10-2013, 05:33 PM
some dipshit kicked/punched my side mirror off and I had to go to ebay to buy a replacement...

I am not savvy enough (I'm a dipshit) to install it myself and I am getting a little bit of work done tomorrow at an auto shop and I'm going to bring the mirror with me and ask them to install it for me...

how much should I be expecting them to charge me for that labor since I have already bought the part?

Any idea at all who did it?
Sec

unnecessary drama
03-10-2013, 05:35 PM
Why did you ask us then?

I was wondering what a fair price to ask for at the shop tomorrow...that's why. Pretty fucking simple, no?

I'm not going to ask them to do it for $20 if that is an insult. I have the part, I've already spent $105 on that...I would rather not waste my friend's time at his work to do me a favor so tomorrow when I'm getting some minor work done was going to have them do it as long as it didn't cost much more than $20.

if it costs $50+ for labor on something that shouldn't take more than 10 minutes then forget it

unnecessary drama
03-10-2013, 05:36 PM
Any idea at all who did it?
Sec

No. I live in an apartment on a college campus...I went to scrape the ice of my windshield one morning a few weeks ago and the fucking thing was dangling straight off...someone punched it, kicked it, or threw a heavy fucking trash bag out of their window that landed right on my side mirror.

DeezNutz
03-10-2013, 05:36 PM
really?

when they are already working on the car as it is?

my friend said he'd do it for free I suppose I'll just go that route...it can't be much work whatsoever...it needs to be plugged in and bolted down...that shouldn't take someone with the necessary tools/knows what they are doing more than 10 minutes

Depends where you're taking it.

one who sucks the penis dealerships will try to charge $15-20 to replace a bulb. Several oil changes ago:

Them: Oops. You have a tail light out. Did you know?
Me: Nope. Go ahead and throw that on while you're changing the oil.
Them: Cool.
Me: Any additional charge for that, beyond cost of the light of course?
Them: $15.
Me: Laughter. Yeah, no.

unnecessary drama
03-10-2013, 05:38 PM
Depends where you're taking it.

one who sucks the penis dealerships will try to charge $15-20 to replace a bulb. Several oil changes ago:

Them: Oops. You have a tail light out. Did you know?
Me: Nope. Go ahead and throw that on while you're changing the oil.
Them: Cool.
Me: Any additional charge for that, beyond cost of the light of course?
Them: $15.
Me: Laughter. Yeah, no.

that's what I'm saying...I'm already giving them $120 of business...

I'd understand them not wasting their time to do something for $20 but since they are already doing some basic work I figure adding $20 on top for them to just install a part I purchased separately isn't an offensive offer by any means

DeezNutz
03-10-2013, 05:40 PM
that's what I'm saying...I'm already giving them $120 of business...

I'd understand them not wasting their time to do something for $20 but since they are already doing some basic work I figure adding $20 on top for them to just install a part I purchased separately isn't an offensive offer by any means

But dude, I don't think they're going to view installing a mirror as simple as replacing a bulb, which literally a complete fucking moron can do. I thought they'd make the change as a courtesy. Nope.

unnecessary drama
03-10-2013, 05:44 PM
But dude, I don't think they're going to view installing a mirror as simple as replacing a bulb, which literally a complete ****ing moron can do. I thought they'd make the change as a courtesy. Nope.

True. I won't even waste my time asking then.

Bwana
03-10-2013, 05:46 PM
really?

when they are already working on the car as it is?

my friend said he'd do it for free I suppose I'll just go that route...it can't be much work whatsoever...it needs to be plugged in and bolted down...that shouldn't take someone with the necessary tools/knows what they are doing more than 10 minutes

If you can get them to knock it out for $20, bring an extra $2 and buy a Powerball ticket. Unless you hit a giant pile of luck, getting them to knock it out for $20 is unlikely. In reality, you could easily do it yourself.

unnecessary drama
03-10-2013, 05:48 PM
If you can get them to knock it out for $20, bring an extra $2 and buy a Powerball ticket. Unless you hit a giant pile of luck, getting them to knock it out for $20 is unlikely. In reality, you could easily do it yourself.

that's what I figured...

what's the process? It looks like I'll juts need to plug it in and then bolt it down or something

I'm pretty ignorant with this stuff.

Bwana
03-10-2013, 05:51 PM
that's what I figured...

what's the process? It looks like I'll juts need to plug it in and then bolt it down or something

I'm pretty ignorant with this stuff.

In most cases, that's about it. Do a google of your make and year of car and you should find all the information you need. (likely even a youtube of it) As long as you don't have to pull the door panel, it should be childs play, seriously.

unnecessary drama
03-10-2013, 05:52 PM
maybe I'll have my roommate give me a hand...he's pretty handy with this stuff

sick of driving around with a busted mirror

seclark
03-10-2013, 05:55 PM
maybe I'll have my roommate give me a hand...he's pretty handy with this stuff

sick of driving around with a busted mirror

Is it just dangling there, or is it torn completely off?
Sec

Bwana
03-10-2013, 06:00 PM
Is it just dangling there, or is it torn completely off?
Sec

Is that a Lorena Bobbit quote?

unnecessary drama
03-10-2013, 06:00 PM
Is it just dangling there, or is it torn completely off?
Sec

well I've duct taped it...

the back of the mirror was totally busted off and the glass was broken somewhat...so I taped it to avoid getting pulled over (even though it isn't illegal in Illinois to drive without a passenger side mirror)...but it looks trashy and it is useless since the 'heated' element doesn't work anymore.

I found the exact mirror to the color on Ebay and offered $95 and the dude accepted the offer and I got in the mail Saturday.

seclark
03-10-2013, 06:02 PM
Is that a Lorena Bobbit quote?

:LOL:

rockymtnchief
03-10-2013, 06:08 PM
Is that a Lorena Bobbit quote?

LMAO

You're a sick bastard!

My co-worker youtubes the make/model/problem on all his cars and gets it figured out pretty easily. He even trained himself to splice fiber this way. Youtube and see if it's an easy fix.

JASONSAUTO
03-10-2013, 06:27 PM
Most likely the whole door panel gets removed.
Posted via Mobile Device

J Diddy
03-10-2013, 06:31 PM
You pretty much are a dipshit. The same thing happened to my car and it literally was a 5 minute, 3 screw job and I am by no means a mechanic.

Exoter175
03-10-2013, 07:41 PM
some dipshit kicked/punched my side mirror off and I had to go to ebay to buy a replacement...

I am not savvy enough (I'm a dipshit) to install it myself and I am getting a little bit of work done tomorrow at an auto shop and I'm going to bring the mirror with me and ask them to install it for me...

how much should I be expecting them to charge me for that labor since I have already bought the part?

I quoted a bunch of your posts so I can help explain a few things for you, since you are extremely misguided about how the auto repair business works, so I'll be highlighting a few points here, hopefully it'll enlighten you, and the rest of the community so they don't get the foolish notion that "Since they are already doing work, maybe they'll do this for practically nothing".

First things' first, bringing a part in will not earn you a discount. In fact, it is almost insulting to every business out there, and a good majority of them WILL NOT install "your" part for a number of reasons, but make no mistake about it, the largest reason they will not, is because they cannot mark the price up. The next biggest reason is because the manufacturer of that part probably doesn't adhere to the same quality standards that the repair facility (usually dealerships in this case) will stamp their warranty work on.

As most places will have a general warranty coverage on all work done, we're not going to warranty a used part, and we certainly aren't going to warranty a cheap reproduction or reman part from an inferior quality supplier and add our warrant to it.

Also, since we aren't making a single CENT off of your mirror, we won't be obliged to discount the time it takes to put your mirror on. Most places, as it turns out, are going to charge you a MINIMUM 1 hour labor to do ANYTHING on a car, short of a flat rate service (Oil Change, Brakes, Exhaust, etc.)

Depending on where you live, that labor hour could be anywhere from 50 dollars in labor (BFE midwest) to 95 dollars an hour (KC metro stealership)

1 hour service work.

Minimum, unless the tech or manager are a close friend.

what I'm trying to say is...I'm on tap for about $100 of work tomorrow and with that I don't expect to pay more than $20 for them to install the mirror...is that reasonable? If they want to charge me more I already have a friend who said he'd do it free of charge but I rather not use his time if I can just pay $20 or so when I'm already taking my car in tomorrow as is

This is the next bit that I'll touch on.

First, you sound like a cheap ass. You sound like the individual who will fight me (the mechanic or manager) tooth and nail for your business because you don't want to pay what I'll charge everyone else, because you can't afford it. I'll try to fight for your business to a degree, and you'll try to drag me to that point and then go further. I will have a line I won't do the work for, and you're likely going to get me to that line, or just above it. Once we've established that, I'm not cutting you a discount on ANYTHING ever again.

Second, 100 dollars is NOTHING in the automotive repair business. Generally speaking, that's about 1.5 hours of labor or just a little under at most "mom and pop" shops.

I don't even think I can go anywhere in the KC metro and get all 8 of my plugs changed in my mustang for 100 bucks. I'm not sure what your service is, but I've written tickets for an Oil Change and Air Filter for nearly as much as you're spending, and those are 15 minutes In and Out all day long.

I realize 100 dollars is something to you, but understand that 100 dollars is NOTHING for a business that needs to earn it.

What you don't understand is that labor hour generally goes to paying a huge portion of the business, as a lot of the parts barely have any true "room" to make up that kind of "markup".

Say I sell you a distributor for $250 dollars, chances are I picked that distributor up for about $210-220, but I'm probably going to charge you an hour to put that on, 16-24 of that is going to my mechanic to put it on, he's only going to take about 20 minutes to do it, and the 40-50ish remaining goes back to the shop. In most medium sized repair facilities, I'm going to have to have about 5 of YOU a day, to pay for my business all said and done.

So to answer, no, you aren't being reasonable.

really?

when they are already working on the car as it is?

my friend said he'd do it for free I suppose I'll just go that route...it can't be much work whatsoever...it needs to be plugged in and bolted down...that shouldn't take someone with the necessary tools/knows what they are doing more than 10 minutes

The next issue I have, and this will be true enlightenment.

Just because something takes 7 minutes and 24 minutes to install for the trained professional, does not mean I should be charging you 7 minutes and 24 minutes of my labor hour.

You didn't pay for his training, you don't pay for the facility, you don't pay for the advertising, you certainly don't pay for overhead at all, yet, you think you should only be charged for the time it took to repair?

When it comes to repair of ANY KIND, you're paying for the service, not the time. If the service calls for 3.5 hours, you'll get charged 3.5 hours. But, should your trusted repair facility employ some very knowledgeable, very fast mechanics who can get the job done in 1.7 hours, you aren't going to pay less because they are that much better and efficient.

You'll just get your car back that much sooner and be on your way to the life of whatever it is you do, that much quicker.

If repair facilities charged you for the actual time it took them, they would be out of business, or............you'd see labor hours doubling or tripling the current labor hours, just to get back to the same "profits" they have right now, but you'd see a new breed of mechanics that are rushed and more mistake prone.

You don't wan that, wise up.

I was wondering what a fair price to ask for at the shop tomorrow...that's why. Pretty fucking simple, no?

I'm not going to ask them to do it for $20 if that is an insult. I have the part, I've already spent $105 on that...I would rather not waste my friend's time at his work to do me a favor so tomorrow when I'm getting some minor work done was going to have them do it as long as it didn't cost much more than $20.

if it costs $50+ for labor on something that shouldn't take more than 10 minutes then forget it

Forget it then.

I'm guessing that your car is a shitbox based on the aforementioned repair costs, that, or you are getting preventative maintenance done.

But I'll give you an idea of a real life scenario.

A friend of mine had his mothers' car come into MY business to get a tune up and to replace her sway bar. After all was said and done, I think we knocked the car out in like 2 hours, but HE (the friend) also brought in a mirror to have it replaced at the last second. He asked me for a quote and gave me the number to call her to get the go ahead on the purchase.

I quoted her in the neighborhood of 115 dollars to remove and replace the mirror.

Do you know why?

The labor hour came out to about 1.5 hours, I had to remove the door panel (wasn't easy, required special tools that I had to buy because this is the business I am in), and re-pin (I did this for free) the connector to her heated mirrors.

Therein lies the issue in some cases. Newer cars cost more to fix. She was driving a 2011 fully loaded Acura TSX, this thing had Heated, Power Mirrors, Power door locks, everything, which is more shit for me to remove and/or fuck up when I take her door panel off.

The connector in this case was broken, and I had to remove the connector (depin) and fix it (repin to the new one), I charge $125 dollars a labor hour for electrical work and/or invasive work. I did it for free because he brought me a ton of business my way.

Still, it cost her $115 to replace it. Do you know what other places had quoted her?

$400+ Dollars for 1.5 hours labor + 1 hour electrical/diagnostic

Yet you want that shit done for 20 dollars or "Fuck it, I'll do it myself"

$20 isn't shit anymore kid, I wipe my ass with 20's.
that's what I'm saying...I'm already giving them $120 of business...

I'd understand them not wasting their time to do something for $20 but since they are already doing some basic work I figure adding $20 on top for them to just install a part I purchased separately isn't an offensive offer by any means

It is, especially when it is your part.

They'd certainly give you a labor discount had you bought their part or allowed them to source one for you, granted it would be marked up a bit, but you'd likely have paid significantly less on the labor.

You pretty much are a dipshit. The same thing happened to my car and it literally was a 5 minute, 3 screw job and I am by no means a mechanic.

A lot of this depends on the Year, Make, and Model of the car.

My mustang would take some time, but my 92 civic? 3 minutes flat.

Chiefaholic
03-10-2013, 08:09 PM
There shouldn't be much to it. I'm not familiar with your vehicle, but there should be one screw on the inside door panel you can remove behind the mirror. Take that off and there should be three studs that protrude from the mirror that fit through three holes on the door. Just tighten the three nuts, replace the plate that covers them, and you're done.

KC native
03-10-2013, 08:20 PM
I quoted a bunch of your posts so I can help explain a few things for you, since you are extremely misguided about how the auto repair business works, so I'll be highlighting a few points here, hopefully it'll enlighten you, and the rest of the community so they don't get the foolish notion that "Since they are already doing work, maybe they'll do this for practically nothing".

First things' first, bringing a part in will not earn you a discount. In fact, it is almost insulting to every business out there, and a good majority of them WILL NOT install "your" part for a number of reasons, but make no mistake about it, the largest reason they will not, is because they cannot mark the price up. The next biggest reason is because the manufacturer of that part probably doesn't adhere to the same quality standards that the repair facility (usually dealerships in this case) will stamp their warranty work on.

As most places will have a general warranty coverage on all work done, we're not going to warranty a used part, and we certainly aren't going to warranty a cheap reproduction or reman part from an inferior quality supplier and add our warrant to it.

Also, since we aren't making a single CENT off of your mirror, we won't be obliged to discount the time it takes to put your mirror on. Most places, as it turns out, are going to charge you a MINIMUM 1 hour labor to do ANYTHING on a car, short of a flat rate service (Oil Change, Brakes, Exhaust, etc.)

Depending on where you live, that labor hour could be anywhere from 50 dollars in labor (BFE midwest) to 95 dollars an hour (KC metro stealership)



Minimum, unless the tech or manager are a close friend.



This is the next bit that I'll touch on.

First, you sound like a cheap ass. You sound like the individual who will fight me (the mechanic or manager) tooth and nail for your business because you don't want to pay what I'll charge everyone else, because you can't afford it. I'll try to fight for your business to a degree, and you'll try to drag me to that point and then go further. I will have a line I won't do the work for, and you're likely going to get me to that line, or just above it. Once we've established that, I'm not cutting you a discount on ANYTHING ever again.

Second, 100 dollars is NOTHING in the automotive repair business. Generally speaking, that's about 1.5 hours of labor or just a little under at most "mom and pop" shops.

I don't even think I can go anywhere in the KC metro and get all 8 of my plugs changed in my mustang for 100 bucks. I'm not sure what your service is, but I've written tickets for an Oil Change and Air Filter for nearly as much as you're spending, and those are 15 minutes In and Out all day long.

I realize 100 dollars is something to you, but understand that 100 dollars is NOTHING for a business that needs to earn it.

What you don't understand is that labor hour generally goes to paying a huge portion of the business, as a lot of the parts barely have any true "room" to make up that kind of "markup".

Say I sell you a distributor for $250 dollars, chances are I picked that distributor up for about $210-220, but I'm probably going to charge you an hour to put that on, 16-24 of that is going to my mechanic to put it on, he's only going to take about 20 minutes to do it, and the 40-50ish remaining goes back to the shop. In most medium sized repair facilities, I'm going to have to have about 5 of YOU a day, to pay for my business all said and done.

So to answer, no, you aren't being reasonable.



The next issue I have, and this will be true enlightenment.

Just because something takes 7 minutes and 24 minutes to install for the trained professional, does not mean I should be charging you 7 minutes and 24 minutes of my labor hour.

You didn't pay for his training, you don't pay for the facility, you don't pay for the advertising, you certainly don't pay for overhead at all, yet, you think you should only be charged for the time it took to repair?

When it comes to repair of ANY KIND, you're paying for the service, not the time. If the service calls for 3.5 hours, you'll get charged 3.5 hours. But, should your trusted repair facility employ some very knowledgeable, very fast mechanics who can get the job done in 1.7 hours, you aren't going to pay less because they are that much better and efficient.

You'll just get your car back that much sooner and be on your way to the life of whatever it is you do, that much quicker.

If repair facilities charged you for the actual time it took them, they would be out of business, or............you'd see labor hours doubling or tripling the current labor hours, just to get back to the same "profits" they have right now, but you'd see a new breed of mechanics that are rushed and more mistake prone.

You don't wan that, wise up.



Forget it then.

I'm guessing that your car is a shitbox based on the aforementioned repair costs, that, or you are getting preventative maintenance done.

But I'll give you an idea of a real life scenario.

A friend of mine had his mothers' car come into MY business to get a tune up and to replace her sway bar. After all was said and done, I think we knocked the car out in like 2 hours, but HE (the friend) also brought in a mirror to have it replaced at the last second. He asked me for a quote and gave me the number to call her to get the go ahead on the purchase.

I quoted her in the neighborhood of 115 dollars to remove and replace the mirror.

Do you know why?

The labor hour came out to about 1.5 hours, I had to remove the door panel (wasn't easy, required special tools that I had to buy because this is the business I am in), and re-pin (I did this for free) the connector to her heated mirrors.

Therein lies the issue in some cases. Newer cars cost more to fix. She was driving a 2011 fully loaded Acura TSX, this thing had Heated, Power Mirrors, Power door locks, everything, which is more shit for me to remove and/or fuck up when I take her door panel off.

The connector in this case was broken, and I had to remove the connector (depin) and fix it (repin to the new one), I charge $125 dollars a labor hour for electrical work and/or invasive work. I did it for free because he brought me a ton of business my way.

Still, it cost her $115 to replace it. Do you know what other places had quoted her?

$400+ Dollars for 1.5 hours labor + 1 hour electrical/diagnostic

Yet you want that shit done for 20 dollars or "Fuck it, I'll do it myself"

$20 isn't shit anymore kid, I wipe my ass with 20's.


It is, especially when it is your part.

They'd certainly give you a labor discount had you bought their part or allowed them to source one for you, granted it would be marked up a bit, but you'd likely have paid significantly less on the labor.



A lot of this depends on the Year, Make, and Model of the car.

My mustang would take some time, but my 92 civic? 3 minutes flat.

Nothing wrong with any of this, but this is exactly why I turn my own wrenches whenever I can.

LoneWolf
03-10-2013, 08:27 PM
You pretty much are a dipshit. The same thing happened to my car and it literally was a 5 minute, 3 screw job and I am by no means a mechanic.

Depends on the vehicle. I had to replace my wife's passenger side mirror and it required removal of the door panel. It took me 45 minutes to remove door panel, unbolt old mirror and release the wiring, bolt on new mirror and run the wire, plug wire into plug on door panel, and reinstall the door panel.

Did you have to get off of your high horse when you changed your mirror or were you able to do everything while still in the saddle?

J Diddy
03-10-2013, 08:31 PM
Depends on the vehicle. I had to replace my wife's passenger side mirror and it required removal of the door panel. It took me 45 minutes to remove door panel, unbolt old mirror and release the wiring, bolt on new mirror and run the wire, plug wire into plug on door panel, and reinstall the door panel.

Did you have to get off of your high horse when you changed your mirror or were you able to do everything while still in the saddle?

I needed the horse to reach. I'm short.

Point is that it isn't complicated if you're willing to take the time.

Now my turn to ask a question. When you pretend you're some internet superhero do you wear tights and turn on a bat light to heighten the experience? Or do you just close your eyes and wing it?

LoneWolf
03-10-2013, 08:37 PM
I needed the horse to reach. I'm short.

Point is that it isn't complicated if you're willing to take the time.

Now my turn to ask a question. When you pretend you're some internet superhero do you wear tights and turn on a bat light to heighten the experience? Or do you just close your eyes and wing it?

Well, today my tights are at the cleaners and I use a Green Lantern instead of a bat light. Wasn't particularly white knighting, I just thought the dipshit comment was a little much.

I did just finish watching some stupid chick flick called The Lucky One with my wife, so maybe my estrogen level is up. Won't happen again.

J Diddy
03-10-2013, 08:38 PM
Well, today my tights are at the cleaners and I use a Green Lantern instead of a bat light. Wasn't particularly white knighting, I just thought the dipshit comment was a little much.

I did just finish watching some stupid chick flick called The Lucky One with my wife, so maybe my estrogen level is up. Won't happen again.

Lol, he called himself a dipshit. I was just agreeing with him.

No harm, just some playful nudging.

Moon§hiner
03-10-2013, 08:42 PM
So I guess I can't take this 1 1/2 thick t-bone that I picked up at the store to Outback and order a baked potato and have them throw this on the grill since it's warmed up anyway???

Exoter175
03-10-2013, 08:56 PM
There shouldn't be much to it. I'm not familiar with your vehicle, but there should be one screw on the inside door panel you can remove behind the mirror. Take that off and there should be three studs that protrude from the mirror that fit through three holes on the door. Just tighten the three nuts, replace the plate that covers them, and you're done.

If your car is pre-99 sure, or pre-96 for most German/European cars.

However, like I stated earlier, every car is different. The more options you have, the newer the car, the more intricate it is going to be. Not to mention the higher the quality of the product nowadays. Cars are being put together with much better quality and precision these days, and with that, repair requires precision. With precision, comes precision tools, etc.

If you own a 2012 BMW M3 , are you going to take your flathead to your door panel in the attempt to fix your car? Or are you going to fork out the cash because you can afford the repair, and let someone trained to repair it, do their job?

Its a different world in a 1992 honda civic

Nothing wrong with any of this, but this is exactly why I turn my own wrenches whenever I can.

Same for me, but there comes a point where you can realize you'd be in over your head, or that you'd probably mess something up and pay more in the end. It all depends on your comfort and how mechanically inclined you are.

Depends on the vehicle. I had to replace my wife's passenger side mirror and it required removal of the door panel. It took me 45 minutes to remove door panel, unbolt old mirror and release the wiring, bolt on new mirror and run the wire, plug wire into plug on door panel, and reinstall the door panel.

Did you have to get off of your high horse when you changed your mirror or were you able to do everything while still in the saddle?

That's what many cars are turning into nowadays.

So I guess I can't take this 1 1/2 thick t-bone that I picked up at the store to Outback and order a baked potato and have them throw this on the grill since it's warmed up anyway???

This guy gets it.

unnecessary drama
03-10-2013, 09:10 PM
dude I could barely even make it through half of that long ass post

first thing; my car is a 2002 Audi that has 211,000 miles on it...I don't give a fucking shit about this car. It runs really well, it was free; that's it.

Secondly...I never haggle on price. I don't even care. I was told by one of my friends who manages the junkyard that this would take him 2 minutes to do and he'd do it for free. I figured if it was that fucking easy, and I was taking my car in perhaps the place wouldn't mind if I gave them $20 to do something that was that simple so I didn't have to waste his time...I made this thread so I could make sure that wasn't an offensive offer.

Apparently it would have been. So awesome! I am glad I made this thread so I can save myself that embarrassment.

and I understand $100 is nothing to this place...I get that. Every time I get a fucking oil change in this car it costs $150 because of the synthetic oil it takes...

every time I fill up gas I have to pay for fucking premium gas...it pisses me off.

I forget what happened to this car 6 months ago but I took it to the Audi dealership and they had to replaced two plugs of some sort and it was $1400.

Honestly...it was just a fucking question. I went to the doctor for my knee the other day and, while I do have insurance, I'm sure that 10 minute appointment if I was uninsured would have cost $1500. That's the going rate I guess.

So congrats dude...I'm sorry that you were offended that I wanted to pay $20 for a 5 minute job. I didn't mean to upset you.

unnecessary drama
03-10-2013, 09:14 PM
So I guess I can't take this 1 1/2 thick t-bone that I picked up at the store to Outback and order a baked potato and have them throw this on the grill since it's warmed up anyway???

JFC

LMAO

God forbid I thought someone might do a simple favor...I forgot.

honestly, it was only a question

I'm not going to pay $100 for someone to install a side mirror for me...I'll save my $20. My fucking Christ some of you are just angry people.

from what I've google'd since I made this thread, it'll take me probably about 15 minutes to do it myself. So whatever. I apologize to everyone for wasting your precious evenings.

unnecessary drama
03-10-2013, 09:18 PM
and I wouldn't have gone out of my way to buy my own mirror if I was planning on paying significant money for repair...

I'll just go down to little Mexico and give a Mexican $20 to do it and probably do it faster and better than your "professional" lackeys, exoter.

I bet he won't complain as much as you, either. And if he does I won't understand him so that's ok with me.

unnecessary drama
03-10-2013, 09:19 PM
my friend got rear ended and some mexican was like 'amigo I'll take care of that for $150'...and he was like 'bro I only got $75'...

boom, done.

Mexican workers > American workers

less entitled, better workers, less complaints

I don't know what I'd do without 1-800-callamexican

Moon§hiner
03-10-2013, 09:50 PM
I'm just glad I found this thread before I made a fool out of myself at Outback.

unnecessary drama
03-10-2013, 10:10 PM
I'm just glad I found this thread before I made a fool out of myself at Outback.

because an auto shop is going to have a 2002 Audi Allroad side mirror in stock...

Bugeater
03-10-2013, 10:19 PM
I don't think I've ever removed a door panel and put it back on with every fastener it came off with. Worst one I ever did was on a 98 Camry, something with that damn door lock had me hung up for fucking ever. There's not much on a car that I dread more than pulling one of those things.

KC native
03-10-2013, 10:29 PM
I don't think I've ever removed a door panel and put it back on with every fastener it came off with. Worst one I ever did was on a 98 Camry, something with that damn door lock had me hung up for fucking ever. There's not much on a car that I dread more than pulling one of those things.

Glad I'm not the only one who hates taking door panels off.

Phobia
03-10-2013, 10:53 PM
So I guess I can't take this 1 1/2 thick t-bone that I picked up at the store to Outback and order a baked potato and have them throw this on the grill since it's warmed up anyway???

Reminds me of how a guy walked into Halfcan's restaurant and asked him to warm up his brown-bag lunch in Halfcan's microwave for free. Hell nah. We have bills, people. Big bills. I tote around $40k in tools every day. That's just the ones that fit in the toolbox and the back seat of my truck. You know how much an auto mechanic's tools cost? I'll bet a minimally equipped mom and pop shop has $250k in tools in a 2-bay garage.

J Diddy
03-10-2013, 10:56 PM
JFC

LMAO

God forbid I thought someone might do a simple favor...I forgot.

honestly, it was only a question

I'm not going to pay $100 for someone to install a side mirror for me...I'll save my $20. My ****ing Christ some of you are just angry people.

from what I've google'd since I made this thread, it'll take me probably about 15 minutes to do it myself. So whatever. I apologize to everyone for wasting your precious evenings.

Ahhhh.

Someone became a man tonight.

mikey23545
03-11-2013, 06:39 AM
my friend got rear ended and some mexican was like 'amigo I'll take care of that for $150'...and he was like 'bro I only got $75'...

boom, done.

Mexican workers > American workers

less entitled, better workers, less complaints

I don't know what I'd do without 1-800-callamexican


Yep, no licenses to pay for, no insurance, bonding, liability, never had to pay for any training or certification, probably works out of his garage...

I'm sure he does charge pieces of shit like you and your friend a lot less than a real business would.

OrtonsPiercedTaint
03-11-2013, 06:47 AM
Working for tips changes the mindset. From the rest the business world, somewhat.

unlurking
03-11-2013, 07:04 AM
Take your $20 and give it to the guy who said he'd do it for free. Then watch and maybe you'll learn something for the next time you have to do something simple.

El Jefe
03-11-2013, 07:04 AM
I quoted a bunch of your posts so I can help explain a few things for you, since you are extremely misguided about how the auto repair business works, so I'll be highlighting a few points here, hopefully it'll enlighten you, and the rest of the community so they don't get the foolish notion that "Since they are already doing work, maybe they'll do this for practically nothing".

First things' first, bringing a part in will not earn you a discount. In fact, it is almost insulting to every business out there, and a good majority of them WILL NOT install "your" part for a number of reasons, but make no mistake about it, the largest reason they will not, is because they cannot mark the price up. The next biggest reason is because the manufacturer of that part probably doesn't adhere to the same quality standards that the repair facility (usually dealerships in this case) will stamp their warranty work on.

As most places will have a general warranty coverage on all work done, we're not going to warranty a used part, and we certainly aren't going to warranty a cheap reproduction or reman part from an inferior quality supplier and add our warrant to it.

Also, since we aren't making a single CENT off of your mirror, we won't be obliged to discount the time it takes to put your mirror on. Most places, as it turns out, are going to charge you a MINIMUM 1 hour labor to do ANYTHING on a car, short of a flat rate service (Oil Change, Brakes, Exhaust, etc.)

Depending on where you live, that labor hour could be anywhere from 50 dollars in labor (BFE midwest) to 95 dollars an hour (KC metro stealership)



Minimum, unless the tech or manager are a close friend.



This is the next bit that I'll touch on.

First, you sound like a cheap ass. You sound like the individual who will fight me (the mechanic or manager) tooth and nail for your business because you don't want to pay what I'll charge everyone else, because you can't afford it. I'll try to fight for your business to a degree, and you'll try to drag me to that point and then go further. I will have a line I won't do the work for, and you're likely going to get me to that line, or just above it. Once we've established that, I'm not cutting you a discount on ANYTHING ever again.

Second, 100 dollars is NOTHING in the automotive repair business. Generally speaking, that's about 1.5 hours of labor or just a little under at most "mom and pop" shops.

I don't even think I can go anywhere in the KC metro and get all 8 of my plugs changed in my mustang for 100 bucks. I'm not sure what your service is, but I've written tickets for an Oil Change and Air Filter for nearly as much as you're spending, and those are 15 minutes In and Out all day long.

I realize 100 dollars is something to you, but understand that 100 dollars is NOTHING for a business that needs to earn it.

What you don't understand is that labor hour generally goes to paying a huge portion of the business, as a lot of the parts barely have any true "room" to make up that kind of "markup".

Say I sell you a distributor for $250 dollars, chances are I picked that distributor up for about $210-220, but I'm probably going to charge you an hour to put that on, 16-24 of that is going to my mechanic to put it on, he's only going to take about 20 minutes to do it, and the 40-50ish remaining goes back to the shop. In most medium sized repair facilities, I'm going to have to have about 5 of YOU a day, to pay for my business all said and done.

So to answer, no, you aren't being reasonable.



The next issue I have, and this will be true enlightenment.

Just because something takes 7 minutes and 24 minutes to install for the trained professional, does not mean I should be charging you 7 minutes and 24 minutes of my labor hour.

You didn't pay for his training, you don't pay for the facility, you don't pay for the advertising, you certainly don't pay for overhead at all, yet, you think you should only be charged for the time it took to repair?

When it comes to repair of ANY KIND, you're paying for the service, not the time. If the service calls for 3.5 hours, you'll get charged 3.5 hours. But, should your trusted repair facility employ some very knowledgeable, very fast mechanics who can get the job done in 1.7 hours, you aren't going to pay less because they are that much better and efficient.

You'll just get your car back that much sooner and be on your way to the life of whatever it is you do, that much quicker.

If repair facilities charged you for the actual time it took them, they would be out of business, or............you'd see labor hours doubling or tripling the current labor hours, just to get back to the same "profits" they have right now, but you'd see a new breed of mechanics that are rushed and more mistake prone.

You don't wan that, wise up.



Forget it then.

I'm guessing that your car is a shitbox based on the aforementioned repair costs, that, or you are getting preventative maintenance done.

But I'll give you an idea of a real life scenario.

A friend of mine had his mothers' car come into MY business to get a tune up and to replace her sway bar. After all was said and done, I think we knocked the car out in like 2 hours, but HE (the friend) also brought in a mirror to have it replaced at the last second. He asked me for a quote and gave me the number to call her to get the go ahead on the purchase.

I quoted her in the neighborhood of 115 dollars to remove and replace the mirror.

Do you know why?

The labor hour came out to about 1.5 hours, I had to remove the door panel (wasn't easy, required special tools that I had to buy because this is the business I am in), and re-pin (I did this for free) the connector to her heated mirrors.

Therein lies the issue in some cases. Newer cars cost more to fix. She was driving a 2011 fully loaded Acura TSX, this thing had Heated, Power Mirrors, Power door locks, everything, which is more shit for me to remove and/or **** up when I take her door panel off.

The connector in this case was broken, and I had to remove the connector (depin) and fix it (repin to the new one), I charge $125 dollars a labor hour for electrical work and/or invasive work. I did it for free because he brought me a ton of business my way.

Still, it cost her $115 to replace it. Do you know what other places had quoted her?

$400+ Dollars for 1.5 hours labor + 1 hour electrical/diagnostic

Yet you want that shit done for 20 dollars or "**** it, I'll do it myself"

$20 isn't shit anymore kid, I wipe my ass with 20's.


It is, especially when it is your part.

They'd certainly give you a labor discount had you bought their part or allowed them to source one for you, granted it would be marked up a bit, but you'd likely have paid significantly less on the labor.



A lot of this depends on the Year, Make, and Model of the car.

My mustang would take some time, but my 92 civic? 3 minutes flat.

Beautiful post, spot on.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 07:59 AM
I quoted a bunch of your posts so I can help explain a few things for you, since you are extremely misguided about how the auto repair business works, so I'll be highlighting a few points here, hopefully it'll enlighten you, and the rest of the community so they don't get the foolish notion that "Since they are already doing work, maybe they'll do this for practically nothing".

First things' first, bringing a part in will not earn you a discount. In fact, it is almost insulting to every business out there, and a good majority of them WILL NOT install "your" part for a number of reasons, but make no mistake about it, the largest reason they will not, is because they cannot mark the price up. The next biggest reason is because the manufacturer of that part probably doesn't adhere to the same quality standards that the repair facility (usually dealerships in this case) will stamp their warranty work on.

As most places will have a general warranty coverage on all work done, we're not going to warranty a used part, and we certainly aren't going to warranty a cheap reproduction or reman part from an inferior quality supplier and add our warrant to it.

Also, since we aren't making a single CENT off of your mirror, we won't be obliged to discount the time it takes to put your mirror on. Most places, as it turns out, are going to charge you a MINIMUM 1 hour labor to do ANYTHING on a car, short of a flat rate service (Oil Change, Brakes, Exhaust, etc.)

Depending on where you live, that labor hour could be anywhere from 50 dollars in labor (BFE midwest) to 95 dollars an hour (KC metro stealership)



Minimum, unless the tech or manager are a close friend.



This is the next bit that I'll touch on.

First, you sound like a cheap ass. You sound like the individual who will fight me (the mechanic or manager) tooth and nail for your business because you don't want to pay what I'll charge everyone else, because you can't afford it. I'll try to fight for your business to a degree, and you'll try to drag me to that point and then go further. I will have a line I won't do the work for, and you're likely going to get me to that line, or just above it. Once we've established that, I'm not cutting you a discount on ANYTHING ever again.

Second, 100 dollars is NOTHING in the automotive repair business. Generally speaking, that's about 1.5 hours of labor or just a little under at most "mom and pop" shops.

I don't even think I can go anywhere in the KC metro and get all 8 of my plugs changed in my mustang for 100 bucks. I'm not sure what your service is, but I've written tickets for an Oil Change and Air Filter for nearly as much as you're spending, and those are 15 minutes In and Out all day long.

I realize 100 dollars is something to you, but understand that 100 dollars is NOTHING for a business that needs to earn it.

What you don't understand is that labor hour generally goes to paying a huge portion of the business, as a lot of the parts barely have any true "room" to make up that kind of "markup".

Say I sell you a distributor for $250 dollars, chances are I picked that distributor up for about $210-220, but I'm probably going to charge you an hour to put that on, 16-24 of that is going to my mechanic to put it on, he's only going to take about 20 minutes to do it, and the 40-50ish remaining goes back to the shop. In most medium sized repair facilities, I'm going to have to have about 5 of YOU a day, to pay for my business all said and done.

So to answer, no, you aren't being reasonable.



The next issue I have, and this will be true enlightenment.

Just because something takes 7 minutes and 24 minutes to install for the trained professional, does not mean I should be charging you 7 minutes and 24 minutes of my labor hour.

You didn't pay for his training, you don't pay for the facility, you don't pay for the advertising, you certainly don't pay for overhead at all, yet, you think you should only be charged for the time it took to repair?

When it comes to repair of ANY KIND, you're paying for the service, not the time. If the service calls for 3.5 hours, you'll get charged 3.5 hours. But, should your trusted repair facility employ some very knowledgeable, very fast mechanics who can get the job done in 1.7 hours, you aren't going to pay less because they are that much better and efficient.

You'll just get your car back that much sooner and be on your way to the life of whatever it is you do, that much quicker.

If repair facilities charged you for the actual time it took them, they would be out of business, or............you'd see labor hours doubling or tripling the current labor hours, just to get back to the same "profits" they have right now, but you'd see a new breed of mechanics that are rushed and more mistake prone.

You don't wan that, wise up.



Forget it then.

I'm guessing that your car is a shitbox based on the aforementioned repair costs, that, or you are getting preventative maintenance done.

But I'll give you an idea of a real life scenario.

A friend of mine had his mothers' car come into MY business to get a tune up and to replace her sway bar. After all was said and done, I think we knocked the car out in like 2 hours, but HE (the friend) also brought in a mirror to have it replaced at the last second. He asked me for a quote and gave me the number to call her to get the go ahead on the purchase.

I quoted her in the neighborhood of 115 dollars to remove and replace the mirror.

Do you know why?

The labor hour came out to about 1.5 hours, I had to remove the door panel (wasn't easy, required special tools that I had to buy because this is the business I am in), and re-pin (I did this for free) the connector to her heated mirrors.

Therein lies the issue in some cases. Newer cars cost more to fix. She was driving a 2011 fully loaded Acura TSX, this thing had Heated, Power Mirrors, Power door locks, everything, which is more shit for me to remove and/or **** up when I take her door panel off.

The connector in this case was broken, and I had to remove the connector (depin) and fix it (repin to the new one), I charge $125 dollars a labor hour for electrical work and/or invasive work. I did it for free because he brought me a ton of business my way.

Still, it cost her $115 to replace it. Do you know what other places had quoted her?

$400+ Dollars for 1.5 hours labor + 1 hour electrical/diagnostic

Yet you want that shit done for 20 dollars or "**** it, I'll do it myself"

$20 isn't shit anymore kid, I wipe my ass with 20's.


It is, especially when it is your part.

They'd certainly give you a labor discount had you bought their part or allowed them to source one for you, granted it would be marked up a bit, but you'd likely have paid significantly less on the labor.



A lot of this depends on the Year, Make, and Model of the car.

My mustang would take some time, but my 92 civic? 3 minutes flat.

If it's just a five minute fix, and I was taking my car in there for service anyway, my mechanic would do it for $20. He'd probably do it for free.

loochy
03-11-2013, 08:20 AM
Dude I'm sure you just pop the plastic off the inside, unscrew the mirror, detach the wiring harness, and repeat in reverse. 10 minutes for even a ding dong. Just go outside with a screwdriver and try it.

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 09:59 AM
Yep, no licenses to pay for, no insurance, bonding, liability, never had to pay for any training or certification, probably works out of his garage...

I'm sure he does charge pieces of shit like you and your friend a lot less than a real business would.

LMAO

so I'm a piece of shit because I can hire a Mexican to CHANGE A SIDE MIRROR for a reasonable price for such a simple job of $20 instead of paying a CERTIFIED, INSURANCE PAYING MECHANIC $150 to work for 5 minutes on my car while I wait in line for an hour and a half?

hm...sounds like I'm smart to me

besides, I like shooting the shit with the Mexicans anyways...they always crack me up

WayneBowe
03-11-2013, 10:07 AM
That was your mirror that I punched and pissed on?

asshole drives an Audi and wants to piss and moan about a $100 bill.

Clowndick

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 10:10 AM
Here is one piece of advice that everyone should learn: You never know what you can get unless you ask.

Say to the guy at the shop "hey man, my mirror got knocked off, and I bought the replacement. A friend told me I can replace it myself in about five minutes, but I'd rather not jack with it. Is this something you guys could do for like $20 bucks, or would you have to charge out a full hour of shop time and the whole bit? Either way is cool, but if it's an easy $20 for you and saves me from having to get out my tools, win/win."

What's the worst that's going to happen? I don't think he's going to go upside your head with a wrench or anything. Some people in this thread are WAY too far up their own asses.

Saccopoo
03-11-2013, 10:14 AM
I just replaced the passenger side mirror. Part was $35 off Amazon, took about ten minutes to pop the door panel, another five to screw off the old mirror and put the new one on, and another ten to put the door panel back on.

It ain't that hard folks.

And I'm sure that someone has a video on YouTube doing this exact same thing for the model of car you have.

ChiefButthurt
03-11-2013, 10:25 AM
JFC

LMAO

God forbid I thought someone might do a simple favor...I forgot.

honestly, it was only a question

I'm not going to pay $100 for someone to install a side mirror for me...I'll save my $20. My fucking Christ some of you are just angry people.

from what I've google'd since I made this thread, it'll take me probably about 15 minutes to do it myself. So whatever. I apologize to everyone for wasting your precious evenings.


Is it confirm that this is "Hootie" resurrected? LMAO

Pestilence
03-11-2013, 10:37 AM
Here is one piece of advice that everyone should learn: You never know what you can get unless you ask.

Say to the guy at the shop "hey man, my mirror got knocked off, and I bought the replacement. A friend told me I can replace it myself in about five minutes, but I'd rather not jack with it. Is this something you guys could do for like $20 bucks, or would you have to charge out a full hour of shop time and the whole bit? Either way is cool, but if it's an easy $20 for you and saves me from having to get out my tools, win/win."

What's the worst that's going to happen? I don't think he's going to go upside your head with a wrench or anything. Some people in this thread are WAY too far up their own asses.

This. The worst he's going to say is no. As long as you don't ask him like an asshole.....it's whatever.

Frosty
03-11-2013, 10:42 AM
I don't think I've ever removed a door panel and put it back on with every fastener it came off with. Worst one I ever did was on a 98 Camry, something with that damn door lock had me hung up for ****ing ever. There's not much on a car that I dread more than pulling one of those things.

It's way easier if you have something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/No-Scratch-Tools-Removing-Fastener-Molding/dp/B000LNBLTK/ref=pd_bxgy_auto_img_z

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41esWBSt27L.jpg

Also Google so you can find where the clips are. The linkages to the door handles are usually the toughest for me though some of the wiring harness jacks can be a bitch to get apart.

The worst used to be the clips on the window crank. It's pretty rare to find those now thankfully.

mikeyis4dcats.
03-11-2013, 10:57 AM
LMAO

so I'm a piece of shit because I can hire a Mexican to CHANGE A SIDE MIRROR for a reasonable price for such a simple job of $20 instead of paying a CERTIFIED, INSURANCE PAYING MECHANIC $150 to work for 5 minutes on my car while I wait in line for an hour and a half?

hm...sounds like I'm smart to me

besides, I like shooting the shit with the Mexicans anyways...they always crack me up

when your Mexican's screwdriver slips and he scratches the fuck out of your interior or paint job, good luck getting him to fix it.

Professionals get paid what they do for a reason. Part of that is liability and risk.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 11:06 AM
dude I could barely even make it through half of that long ass post

first thing; my car is a 2002 Audi that has 211,000 miles on it...I don't give a fucking shit about this car. It runs really well, it was free; that's it.

Secondly...I never haggle on price. I don't even care. I was told by one of my friends who manages the junkyard that this would take him 2 minutes to do and he'd do it for free. I figured if it was that fucking easy, and I was taking my car in perhaps the place wouldn't mind if I gave them $20 to do something that was that simple so I didn't have to waste his time...I made this thread so I could make sure that wasn't an offensive offer.

Apparently it would have been. So awesome! I am glad I made this thread so I can save myself that embarrassment.

and I understand $100 is nothing to this place...I get that. Every time I get a fucking oil change in this car it costs $150 because of the synthetic oil it takes...

every time I fill up gas I have to pay for fucking premium gas...it pisses me off.

I forget what happened to this car 6 months ago but I took it to the Audi dealership and they had to replaced two plugs of some sort and it was $1400.

Honestly...it was just a fucking question. I went to the doctor for my knee the other day and, while I do have insurance, I'm sure that 10 minute appointment if I was uninsured would have cost $1500. That's the going rate I guess.

So congrats dude...I'm sorry that you were offended that I wanted to pay $20 for a 5 minute job. I didn't mean to upset you.

First, you didn't upset me by any means.

Second, my long ass post is going to enlighten you on how business works in America, try reading it over and over again until it sinks in.


JFC

LMAO

God forbid I thought someone might do a simple favor...I forgot.

honestly, it was only a question

I'm not going to pay $100 for someone to install a side mirror for me...I'll save my $20. My fucking Christ some of you are just angry people.

from what I've google'd since I made this thread, it'll take me probably about 15 minutes to do it myself. So whatever. I apologize to everyone for wasting your precious evenings.

All of your whining aside, how much do you think 15 minutes of your time is going to cost a business for 15 minutes of theirs? When they become liable for your property, liable for their work, and liable for any accidents that might happen?

and I wouldn't have gone out of my way to buy my own mirror if I was planning on paying significant money for repair...

I'll just go down to little Mexico and give a Mexican $20 to do it and probably do it faster and better than your "professional" lackeys, exoter.

I bet he won't complain as much as you, either. And if he does I won't understand him so that's ok with me.

By all means do so, my professional "lackeys" have degrees and certifications in doing what your mexicans "might" be able to do. They've done the work before, and in this economy, and in this country, you don't get to the top without proper schooling. And guess what? You, the customer, end up paying for that schooling and for that communal need for the people who touch your car, to be the BEST in the business. After all, you don't want some idiot touching your car, and neither do I. We pay for that service, buddy.

Good luck with your mexicans.

my friend got rear ended and some mexican was like 'amigo I'll take care of that for $150'...and he was like 'bro I only got $75'...

boom, done.

Mexican workers > American workers

less entitled, better workers, less complaints

I don't know what I'd do without 1-800-callamexican

Less entitled? Better?

They do the job because 90% of that money is going back to Mexico with their family, they aren't insured, there is no warranty, and you're taking money and jobs from the qualified american public.

Enjoy your mexijob.

I'm just glad I found this thread before I made a fool out of myself at Outback.

Right? That would have been awkward for you.

I don't think I've ever removed a door panel and put it back on with every fastener it came off with. Worst one I ever did was on a 98 Camry, something with that damn door lock had me hung up for fucking ever. There's not much on a car that I dread more than pulling one of those things.

Exactly, there's a really good chance that you're going to break or lose screws and clips if you aren't an absolute professional, and if you are one, its going to take you a little time to do it so you don't fuck anything up. All cars are different though, I've had cars where it took me about 30 seconds to get the door panel off without any issues at all, then I've had ones where it took probably 20-30 minutes due to all of the clips and fasteners, and the fact that I didn't want to have to foot the bill on a brand new Mercedes door panel lol.

Reminds me of how a guy walked into Halfcan's restaurant and asked him to warm up his brown-bag lunch in Halfcan's microwave for free. Hell nah. We have bills, people. Big bills. I tote around $40k in tools every day. That's just the ones that fit in the toolbox and the back seat of my truck. You know how much an auto mechanic's tools cost? I'll bet a minimally equipped mom and pop shop has $250k in tools in a 2-bay garage.

We had about 7k in ONE electronic tool alone. People don't understand that there are a lot of specialty tools, and a lot of tools that speed up the repair process so that you aren't waiting weeks for your car to get repaired.

Those tools aren't cheap either.

Yep, no licenses to pay for, no insurance, bonding, liability, never had to pay for any training or certification, probably works out of his garage...

I'm sure he does charge pieces of shit like you and your friend a lot less than a real business would.

Bingo.

Take your $20 and give it to the guy who said he'd do it for free. Then watch and maybe you'll learn something for the next time you have to do something simple.

Well said.

Beautiful post, spot on.

Thank you.

If it's just a five minute fix, and I was taking my car in there for service anyway, my mechanic would do it for $20. He'd probably do it for free.

Like I said, a lot of it depends on the job and the relationship with the customer. If I've had a guy bring me his whole fleet of cars from his family for 15 years like clockwork, he's keeping me in business, not only will I give that guy a discount on all work, but I'm probably going to do the mirror for free if he asked me nicely to do the work. Then again, it also depends on what the car was in there for. $100 dollars could be simple fluids, that Mirror will take longer than those fluids, but if I've got mechanic downtime in the day, I'll probably have them do the work on it just to keep them busy, but if I am swamped, there's a small likelihood that I'll eat the cost on it and have it done.

Which is something many haven't thought about, every time a mechanic touches the car, that costs me money as an owner, unless those mechanics are under salary, and in a lot of small time mom and pop shops, they aren't under salary.

LMAO

so I'm a piece of shit because I can hire a Mexican to CHANGE A SIDE MIRROR for a reasonable price for such a simple job of $20 instead of paying a CERTIFIED, INSURANCE PAYING MECHANIC $150 to work for 5 minutes on my car while I wait in line for an hour and a half?

hm...sounds like I'm smart to me

besides, I like shooting the shit with the Mexicans anyways...they always crack me up

You're a piece of shit because you don't understand business, how it works, nor the law and how liability works. Yet you DEMAND that the mechanic you are going to, who is charging you 100 dollars for who knows what, should take 20 dollars to put a mirror on a car that you don't know will take 5 minutes or not, because your car is "already in".

If that shop got nothing but customers like you, he'd be out of business, I promise you. Take it from someone who has been in the small time mom and pop shop business.

That was your mirror that I punched and pissed on?

asshole drives an Audi and wants to piss and moan about a $100 bill.

Clowndick

Right?

Here is one piece of advice that everyone should learn: You never know what you can get unless you ask.

Say to the guy at the shop "hey man, my mirror got knocked off, and I bought the replacement. A friend told me I can replace it myself in about five minutes, but I'd rather not jack with it. Is this something you guys could do for like $20 bucks, or would you have to charge out a full hour of shop time and the whole bit? Either way is cool, but if it's an easy $20 for you and saves me from having to get out my tools, win/win."

What's the worst that's going to happen? I don't think he's going to go upside your head with a wrench or anything. Some people in this thread are WAY too far up their own asses.


Bingo, if you ask nicely and don't ASSUME anything, you'd be surprised what could happen.

I just replaced the passenger side mirror. Part was $35 off Amazon, took about ten minutes to pop the door panel, another five to screw off the old mirror and put the new one on, and another ten to put the door panel back on.

It ain't that hard folks.

And I'm sure that someone has a video on YouTube doing this exact same thing for the model of car you have.

You'd be surprised what you could find on youtube to aid in fixed like these, and some of those videos are done by people less mechanically inclined than yourself.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 11:07 AM
when your Mexican's screwdriver slips and he scratches the fuck out of your interior or paint job, good luck getting him to fix it.

Professionals get paid what they do for a reason. Part of that is liability and risk.

This guy knows business!

Bugeater
03-11-2013, 11:08 AM
It's way easier if you have something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/No-Scratch-Tools-Removing-Fastener-Molding/dp/B000LNBLTK/ref=pd_bxgy_auto_img_z

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41esWBSt27L.jpg

Also Google so you can find where the clips are. The linkages to the door handles are usually the toughest for me though some of the wiring harness jacks can be a bitch to get apart.

The worst used to be the clips on the window crank. It's pretty rare to find those now thankfully.
Oh god...those goddamn GM clips. I remember somehow modifying a screwdriver to use on those blasted things. I should grab one of those tool sets, seems at least once a year I am into a door for one reason or another. Last year in the middle of winter the window was frozen shut on my Dakota, I didn't realize it and I hit the power window button and the regulator lowered and the window didn't. So off comes the fucking door panel...

notorious
03-11-2013, 11:10 AM
my friend got rear ended and some mexican was like 'amigo I'll take care of that for $150'...and he was like 'bro I only got $75'...

boom, done.

Mexican workers > American workers

less entitled, better workers, less complaints

I don't know what I'd do without 1-800-callamexican

LMAO


I love that kind of labor. I get to go back to a house I did a bid on that decided to go cheap, fix all of the fuckups that occured, and charge a lot more.


There is nothing like receiving a "I told you so" check.

Frosty
03-11-2013, 11:11 AM
Oh god...those goddamn GM clips. I remember somehow modifying a screwdriver to use on those blasted things. I should grab one of those tool sets, seems at least once a year I am into a door for one reason or another. Last year in the middle of winter the window was frozen shut on my Dakota, I didn't realize it and I hit the power window button and the regulator lowered and the window didn't. So off comes the ****ing door panel...

Harbor Freight has that set for like 5 bucks. They were cheap anyway.

There was a tool that made getting the crank clips off easy. It was getting them back on without them shooting across the room that was tricky.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 11:13 AM
when your Mexican's screwdriver slips and he scratches the **** out of your interior or paint job, good luck getting him to fix it.

Professionals get paid what they do for a reason. Part of that is liability and risk.

He's replacing the mirror on a car with 200,000+ miles on it, not doing electrical work on a Bugatti.

Bugeater
03-11-2013, 11:13 AM
Harbor Freight has that set for like 5 bucks. They were cheap anyway.

There was a tool that made getting the crank clips off easy. It was getting them back on without them shooting across the room that was tricky.
I'm pretty sure you could just put the clip back on the crank and then pop it on. I could be mistaken though, it's been a long time since I messed with one.

Frosty
03-11-2013, 11:20 AM
I'm pretty sure you could just put the clip back on the crank and then pop it on. I could be mistaken though, it's been a long time since I messed with one.

Most of them wouldn't, especially without bending the clip. You had to balance it on the slot and then carefully reinstall the crank handle. Then you could reach in and push the clip on.

They are mostly gone but my son's Prizm has manual windows and so did the Sidekick I had a couple of years ago.

I wish manufacturers would reinforce the fiberboard around the clips on the door panels. You have a better chance of breaking the fiberboard than a clip if you have a problem. :banghead:

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 11:36 AM
LMAO


I love that kind of labor. I get to go back to a house I did a bid on that decided to go cheap, fix all of the fuckups that occured, and charge a lot more.


There is nothing like receiving a "I told you so" check.

Exactly, and there are no discounts on customers coming back a month later with the same problem that their mexican couldn't fix or fucked up worse.

He's replacing the mirror on a car with 200,000+ miles on it, not doing electrical work on a Bugatti.

That doesn't matter, he's required by law to have the coverage IN CASE he fucks it up. Some people won't care, but what happens if this situations occurs to that one man who has had the car since the first day it rolled off the assembly line, and has babied it every minute of its existence? To that man, the car is worth a fortune and he's not going to just let you accidentally fuck something up without you making amends for your fault. Those guys cost money, which is why we carry insurance.

I'm pretty sure you could just put the clip back on the crank and then pop it on. I could be mistaken though, it's been a long time since I messed with one.

Some cars that works, some cars it doesn't. The clips are so malleable yet unbreakable, that you end up bending them into very weird shapes. Now you're stuck with a window crank that falls off everytime you turn it lol.

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 11:38 AM
some dipshit kicked/punched my side mirror off and I had to go to ebay to buy a replacement...

I am not savvy enough (I'm a dipshit) to install it myself and I am getting a little bit of work done tomorrow at an auto shop and I'm going to bring the mirror with me and ask them to install it for me...

how much should I be expecting them to charge me for that labor since I have already bought the part?

Exoter:

This is the OP. Nowhere in this entire thread did I ever DEMAND someone to fix my mirror for $20. I made this thread to figure out what the etiquette was at a body shop.

As for hiring Mexican's to do cheap labor on my car...

It's a fucking side mirror. It's not the god damn engine. The car is 10 years old with 211,000 miles on it...I was in Dallas last year and it hailed softball size hail and left, presumably, thousands of dollars in hail damage (liability only, wish I had full coverage so I could've cashed in on that insurance check when they inevitably would have totalled out my car)...

do you really think I give a god damn fuck if a Mexican has a screw driver slip when he's installing the mirror?

I mean, you guys are acting like I need a new transmission. I'm getting a side mirror put on...my fucking God. I didn't ask for any life lessons about how 'mom and pop' body shops have to jack up the prices to stay in business...I don't give a fuck.

I really don't. When something goes wrong with the car that makes me think 'oh shit', I take it to the Audi dealership and pay 40 billion dollars to get everything fixed...it was a free car, but I knew it was going to cost me an arm and a leg every time something broke down since it's an Audi...

but a side mirror? Christ. I'm sorry that these Mexican side mirror installers who charge realistic amounts of $ for work take your jerbs...

it's not my fault they are reasonable and not fucking crooks...

I am willing to pay $20 for this side mirror install...I'm not even going to bother asking this shop what they will charge for it after this thread. I will simply do it myself, get help from my roommate, take it to my friend's junkyard and have him do it like he said he would, or hire a damn mexican. $20 is the going rate for this simple job. I'll jab a screwdriver into the paint once the Mexican is done doing it to make everyone feel better as well.

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 11:42 AM
LMAO


I love that kind of labor. I get to go back to a house I did a bid on that decided to go cheap, fix all of the ****ups that occured, and charge a lot more.


There is nothing like receiving a "I told you so" check.

house is the same thing as a passenger side mirror on a 2002 car

I'm lazy and refuse to do any sort of manual labor. My hands are far too nice to break a nail doing something like that...

Mexican labor is great for these instances...they charge fair price, they don't need entitlement money like 'the overworked' working American man!!!

"oh that 5 minute side mirror job!? That'll cost an hour of labor + shop time + you didn't buy the part here which is a 50% cost penalty plus a 1 time surcharge of $93.95"

!!!!

Kobe!

mikeyis4dcats.
03-11-2013, 11:42 AM
He's replacing the mirror on a car with 200,000+ miles on it, not doing electrical work on a Bugatti.

we're speaking in general terms.

JASONSAUTO
03-11-2013, 11:43 AM
If it's just a five minute fix, and I was taking my car in there for service anyway, my mechanic would do it for $20. He'd probably do it for free.

I would too for a repeat customer, I put tons of light bulbs in for free too. And even scan cars.


Surely ill get roasted for it though
Posted via Mobile Device

JASONSAUTO
03-11-2013, 11:44 AM
Here is one piece of advice that everyone should learn: You never know what you can get unless you ask.

Say to the guy at the shop "hey man, my mirror got knocked off, and I bought the replacement. A friend told me I can replace it myself in about five minutes, but I'd rather not jack with it. Is this something you guys could do for like $20 bucks, or would you have to charge out a full hour of shop time and the whole bit? Either way is cool, but if it's an easy $20 for you and saves me from having to get out my tools, win/win."

What's the worst that's going to happen? I don't think he's going to go upside your head with a wrench or anything. Some people in this thread are WAY too far up their own asses.
This. For sure
Posted via Mobile Device

mikeyis4dcats.
03-11-2013, 11:44 AM
I would too for a repeat customer, I put tons of light bulbs in for free too. And even scan cars.


Surely ill get roasted for it though
Posted via Mobile Device

thats what a GOOD professional does, be it construction, auto repair, etc. But that's totally up to them. The customer shouldn't expect it.

Hell, I just spent over $7k on free extras for a customer on a building project, but he was one of the nicest owners I've ever dealt with, and we did well on the project. So he got some free sidewalk, sod, and some other things done.

JASONSAUTO
03-11-2013, 11:44 AM
thats what a GOOD professional does, be it construction, auto repair, etc. But that's totally up to them. The customer shouldn't expect it.

Agreed.
Posted via Mobile Device

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 11:47 AM
He's replacing the mirror on a car with 200,000+ miles on it, not doing electrical work on a Bugatti.

This is what I didn't get...

I started the thread just wondering what it would cost...

and then I was hoping since I already had an appointment I could just throw them an extra $20 and see if they could do something that simple for me (since I had the mirror)

not knowing this was a HUGE breach of etiquette because they can't triple mark up the price on the mirror I bought on ebay...

I then proceeded to get numerous life lessons and then called a piece of shit...

all because I researched pricing, bought the mirror when I luckily found an exact match on ebay, and then was told by a friend who manages our local junkyard that it is a 5 minute job

so I'm sorry I did my homework rather than going to a dealership/body shop and then getting raped in the asshole by crooks who want to buy the part for you so they can mark up the price 200% and then charge you for an hour of labor on a job that takes 5 minutes

MY FAULT EVERYONE...RAPE IS GOOOD

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 11:48 AM
thats what a GOOD professional does, be it construction, auto repair, etc. But that's totally up to them. The customer shouldn't expect it.

Hell, I just spent over $7k on free extras for a customer on a building project, but he was one of the nicest owners I've ever dealt with, and we did well on the project. So he got some free sidewalk, sod, and some other things done.

can you show me one post where I said...

"I'm going to get some work done on my car tomorrow and I also have a side mirror sitting in my backseat and I expect them to replace my broken one with the new one I bought and I expect them to do it for $20."

please, show me this quote

mikeyis4dcats.
03-11-2013, 11:49 AM
why should I tip my waiter 20%? he spent what, a total of 5 minutes serving me?

:popcorn;

mikeyis4dcats.
03-11-2013, 11:49 AM
can you show me one post where I said...

"I'm going to get some work done on my car tomorrow and I also have a side mirror sitting in my backseat and I expect them to replace my broken one with the new one I bought and I expect them to do it for $20."

please, show me this quote

I will, once you showed me where I said you did that, dumbass.

Frosty
03-11-2013, 11:49 AM
I would too for a repeat customer, I put tons of light bulbs in for free too. And even scan cars.


Surely ill get roasted for it though
Posted via Mobile Device

Man, I have a lot of respect for people like you that work on customers' property. The only experience I have with it is when I installed car stereos while in college. I couldn't believe the number of people that would come back in and claim installing new speakers caused the engine to throw a rod or some such nonsense :doh!:. I can imagine it's even worse as a mechanic.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 11:50 AM
Some people won't care, but what happens if this situations occurs to that one man who has had the car since the first day it rolled off the assembly line, and has babied it every minute of its existence? To that man, the car is worth a fortune and he's not going to just let you accidentally **** something up without you making amends for your fault. Those guys cost money, which is why we carry insurance.

When that man asks for advice, I will tell him not to go to a Mexican. Not really sure what your diatribe has to do with hootie's broken side mirror on a car he got for free. I feel fairly confident that some Mexican handyman can pop off a piece of plastic and turn three screws without accidentally wiping out a small African village.

JASONSAUTO
03-11-2013, 11:51 AM
I will, once you showed me where I said you did that, dumbass.

I think he's referring to the other guy who is saying he's demanding something
Posted via Mobile Device

JASONSAUTO
03-11-2013, 11:53 AM
Man, I have a lot of respect for people like you that work on customers' property. The only experience I have with it is when I installed car stereos while in college. I couldn't believe the number of people that would come back in and claim installing new speakers caused the engine to throw a rod or some such nonsense :doh!:. I can imagine it's even worse as a mechanic.
I just had a lady come in who I had put a motor in her car lady week. She just chewed my ass in front of three other customers because her right rear tire went flat last night.


You just gotta smile and go on.

Fixed her flat for free though lol
Posted via Mobile Device

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 11:55 AM
why should I tip my waiter 20%? he spent what, a total of 5 minutes serving me?

:popcorn;

agreed

I often laughed at how much money I'd make on certain large bill tables when they needed very little service; honestly...you're talking to the wrong guy. I never got mad at a bad tip, I usually would laugh at the MASSIVE AND FOR NO REASON tips etc...

I'm not the 'omg that guy didn't tip me I am going to find him and rape his family' guy. Everything always evened out and I have always said I think waitstaff is overpaid.

Old Dog
03-11-2013, 11:56 AM
When that man asks for advice, I will tell him not to go to a Mexican. Not really sure what your diatribe has to do with hootie's broken side mirror on a car he got for free. I feel fairly confident that some Mexican handyman can pop off a piece of plastic and turn three screws without accidentally wiping out a small African village.

I just damn near spit coffee on my keyboard reading this one. If I had, I guess I would have had to send you a bill for the repairs.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 11:57 AM
Exoter:

This is the OP. Nowhere in this entire thread did I ever DEMAND someone to fix my mirror for $20. I made this thread to figure out what the etiquette was at a body shop.

As for hiring Mexican's to do cheap labor on my car...

It's a fucking side mirror. It's not the god damn engine. The car is 10 years old with 211,000 miles on it...I was in Dallas last year and it hailed softball size hail and left, presumably, thousands of dollars in hail damage (liability only, wish I had full coverage so I could've cashed in on that insurance check when they inevitably would have totalled out my car)...

do you really think I give a god damn fuck if a Mexican has a screw driver slip when he's installing the mirror?

I mean, you guys are acting like I need a new transmission. I'm getting a side mirror put on...my fucking God. I didn't ask for any life lessons about how 'mom and pop' body shops have to jack up the prices to stay in business...I don't give a fuck.

I really don't. When something goes wrong with the car that makes me think 'oh shit', I take it to the Audi dealership and pay 40 billion dollars to get everything fixed...it was a free car, but I knew it was going to cost me an arm and a leg every time something broke down since it's an Audi...

but a side mirror? Christ. I'm sorry that these Mexican side mirror installers who charge realistic amounts of $ for work take your jerbs...

it's not my fault they are reasonable and not fucking crooks...

I am willing to pay $20 for this side mirror install...I'm not even going to bother asking this shop what they will charge for it after this thread. I will simply do it myself, get help from my roommate, take it to my friend's junkyard and have him do it like he said he would, or hire a damn mexican. $20 is the going rate for this simple job. I'll jab a screwdriver into the paint once the Mexican is done doing it to make everyone feel better as well.

You sit here and say you didn't expect it, but you call it unreasonable and call them crooks for not doing it for 20 dollars or less.

You still do not UNDERSTAND the point everyone is driving across to you. This is a business, not a charity, kid. You might have a shitty car you don't appreciate, knowing that it'll cost a ton to fix later on, but in the eyes of a mechanic, your car is just like the next Mercedes that pulls up. Its going to cost you the same labor hour that it'll cost on the Mercedes. Why in the actual fuck would you ever assume that the state of your car has anything to do with how much I'm going to charge you?

Which brings me to my second point.

Labor Hour. If you don't understand what Labor Hour is, or what it means, you shouldn't be dictating price.

Simply put, Labor Hour is what I'm going to charge you PER HOUR to fix your car. IT doesn't stop there though, because I'm probably going to pull up something like Mitchell or Alldata to find out how long it is going to take me to fix it, when you come in and ask for a quote, and I'm probably going to mark up the base labor hour by 10-25% on top of that.

Why? Because its going to cost me 400+ per day to have this building with these tools, with these employees, with the insurance to cover all of them, just to be in business. I have to make my money somewhere, and where I make it is labor hour, and parts.

Since you are bringing in a part I can't mark up, I ONLY make money on the labor hour, where I'm less likely to discount you on.

If you don't like the costs associated with running a business and having work done by professionals, use your mexicans, but understand there is nothing Constitutional or Patriotic about what you are doing, and you are only hurting the economy because you are a cheap fuck.

house is the same thing as a passenger side mirror on a 2002 car

I'm lazy and refuse to do any sort of manual labor. My hands are far too nice to break a nail doing something like that...

Mexican labor is great for these instances...they charge fair price, they don't need entitlement money like 'the overworked' working American man!!!

"oh that 5 minute side mirror job!? That'll cost an hour of labor + shop time + you didn't buy the part here which is a 50% cost penalty plus a 1 time surcharge of $93.95"

!!!!

Kobe!

And this is why you're a moron. Entitled? No. Lawful and helpful to the economy? Yes.

You say reasonable to a Mexican for 20 bucks, I see liability, economic downturn, and a cheapskate.

You're all full of negativity but understand this, when they fuck up something on your car, you have no ability to go after them for damages, and they won't be paying you back for their mistakes. If you did it at my shop, you'd be taken care of because you get what you pay for, and with a business, by law, I'm supposed to take care of you if I fuck up.

we're speaking in general terms.

This. But, as I've said, labor hour is labor hour. It doesn't go up or down depending on the condition of the car being worked on.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 12:03 PM
why should I tip my waiter 20%? he spent what, a total of 5 minutes serving me?

:popcorn;

Right? I mean, the food costs like what? 3 dollars at the market? Why should I pay 20? I'll offer you 4 dollars for it since you spent 5 minutes to prepare it.

Man, I have a lot of respect for people like you that work on customers' property. The only experience I have with it is when I installed car stereos while in college. I couldn't believe the number of people that would come back in and claim installing new speakers caused the engine to throw a rod or some such nonsense :doh!:. I can imagine it's even worse as a mechanic.

It is a nightmare is what it is. People with out common knowledge of how their vehicles work will blame you something completely unrelated.

The best, is when the cheapskates come in and you tell them that say, their right front wheel bearing is in need of immediate repair and when you quote them more than 20 bucks to replace it, they go off about the expense, then 3 weeks later you get a call with them bitching at you for the service they didn't pay for, and how their car broke down and cost them 158 dollars for a tow to a repair facility that is going to charge them 569 dollars to fix the problem.

Good god those are fun days.

When that man asks for advice, I will tell him not to go to a Mexican. Not really sure what your diatribe has to do with hootie's broken side mirror on a car he got for free. I feel fairly confident that some Mexican handyman can pop off a piece of plastic and turn three screws without accidentally wiping out a small African village.

Its about the cost of business and the liability that comes with it, and uneducated, uninformed people causing a fuss about the service offered, because they don't understand the cost behind it all.

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 12:04 PM
I'm full of negativity because you keep handing me these life lessons I never once asked for...

I don't give a shit what you guys charge for anything. Charge 2 billion dollars per labor hour for all I care...

this whole thread was a 'hey I think I'm going to ask these guys tomorrow if they can change out this side mirror for $20 because I just want to get it done and I was told it was a 5 minute job, what is the etiquette on that?'

to which Bwana told me 'no way in hell.'

to which I thought, cool.../thread over...glad I didn't embarrass myself

but then I get 10 life lessons and a 14,000 character post telling me how much of a dipshit I was from Mr. Body Shop Man exoter

to which I said, "fine...I'd hire a Mexican to do this easy job anyways..."

because, as cheap as you think I'm being, I DON'T NEED TO SPEND MONEY ON THIS CAR TO REPLACE A MIRROR I DON'T EVEN REALLY USE. I'M ONLY REPLACING IT BECAUSE I FOUND THE PART ON EBAY FOR $100 AND I WAS TIRED OF DRIVING AROUND ON A BUSTED MIRROR (THAT SOMEONE VANDALIZED) AND LOOKING LIKE A FUCKING SCUMBAG.

I'm not NOT paying for your LABOR HOUR because I'm cheap, I'm not paying it because it isn't worth anything to me....this car gets me to and from...it's not my 'pride and joy'...I don't give a shit what it looks like...it was a nice car for a really, really long time...now I'm just riding it out until it dies because it still runs really well.

Legitimately the only reason I am getting this fixed is because, as a respectable adult, I feel like I shouldn't be driving around with a busted side mirror and looking like I am from the god damn ghetto in a fucking Audi.

JASONSAUTO
03-11-2013, 12:05 PM
Which brings me to my second point.

Labor Hour. If you don't understand what Labor Hour is, or what it means, you shouldn't be dictating price.

Simply put, Labor Hour is what I'm going to charge you PER HOUR to fix your car. IT doesn't stop there though, because I'm probably going to pull up something like Mitchell or Alldata to find out how long it is going to take me to fix it, when you come in and ask for a quote, and I'm probably going to mark up the base labor hour by 10-25% on top of that.

Why? Because its going to cost me 400+ per day to have this building with these tools, with these employees, with the insurance to cover all of them, just to be in business. I have to make my money somewhere, and where I make it is labor hour, and parts.

Since you are bringing in a part I can't mark up, I ONLY make money on the labor hour, where I'm less likely to discount you on.








This. But, as I've said, labor hour is labor hour. It doesn't go up or down depending on the condition of the car being worked on.

i cant see raising the labor because i didnt make money on the parts.

thats not really ethical to me, and i put parts people bring with them just about EVERY day. i charge what the labor would be and make sure to let them know AND note on the ticket that the parts were customer supplied and not under warranty in any way by my shop.

if thats not acceptable they can go elsewhere but i cant see charging more to make up for it.

book time is book time.

but again that probably why i'm still in business and running my ass off every day working on tons of cars

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 12:07 PM
and exoter...

I'm not the type of person to ever go into a place of business and make any demands. I may go get an estimate, and if I feel like it is too much, I don't barter. I thank them and move along...

I work in the hotel industry now and I fucking hate people who call me and barter their rates...it happens every fucking day and drives me crazy.

So I am not a hypocrite. Someone quotes me...I either pay it or I don't...but I don't make demands and I don't say 'how about this amount instead?' I'm not that type of person even if I wanted to be...I would find it to be awkward.

Frosty
03-11-2013, 12:07 PM
but again that probably why i'm still in business and running my ass off every day working on tons of cars

A good trustworthy mechanic is worth his weight in gold, imo.

notorious
03-11-2013, 12:08 PM
house is the same thing as a passenger side mirror on a 2002 car


Kobe!

You don't get it, and never will. LMAO



Good luck. You know that you are the equivalent of the guy expecting to get a free or discounted beer even though he never tips and/or rarely comes into the bar.

"But the beer only cost you $.75! Why do you charge $3!"


Or better yet, you are the guy that tries to sneak his own beer in.



Reality is a bitch. You could have replaced the mirror yourself instead of wasting time complaining about it here.

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 12:08 PM
i cant see raising the labor because i didnt make money on the parts.

thats not really ethical to me, and i put parts people bring with them just about EVERY day. i charge what the labor would be and make sure to let them know AND note on the ticket that the parts were customer supplied and not under warranty in any way by my shop.

if thats not acceptable they can go elsewhere but i cant see charging more to make up for it.

book time is book time.

but again that probably why i'm still in business and running my ass off every day working on tons of cars

so I'm getting some basic electrical work done on my car today and they said since it is an Audi it'll take about an hour and cost around $120...

if this was your shop and your quote how much additional would you charge me to install my own side mirror on a car that I was told the job is VERY simple and not time consuming?

I'm honestly JUST curious.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 12:10 PM
Right? I mean, the food costs like what? 3 dollars at the market? Why should I pay 20? I'll offer you 4 dollars for it since you spent 5 minutes to prepare it.



It is a nightmare is what it is. People with out common knowledge of how their vehicles work will blame you something completely unrelated.

The best, is when the cheapskates come in and you tell them that say, their right front wheel bearing is in need of immediate repair and when you quote them more than 20 bucks to replace it, they go off about the expense, then 3 weeks later you get a call with them bitching at you for the service they didn't pay for, and how their car broke down and cost them 158 dollars for a tow to a repair facility that is going to charge them 569 dollars to fix the problem.

Good god those are fun days.



Its about the cost of business and the liability that comes with it, and uneducated, uninformed people causing a fuss about the service offered, because they don't understand the cost behind it all.

Hopefully you've never bought food from a street vendor. You can't be sure that the hotdogs are cooked properly. It's a very complicated and expensive process. If the cart explodes and kills your entire family, they probably won't even give you a free brownie with a scoop of ice cream on top.

JASONSAUTO
03-11-2013, 12:10 PM
so I'm getting some basic electrical work done on my car today and they said since it is an Audi it'll take about an hour and cost around $120...

if this was your shop and your quote how much additional would you charge me to install my own side mirror on a car that I was told the job is VERY simple and not time consuming?

I'm honestly JUST curious.

in my shop?


probably right around 20 bucks. LOL. seriously.

especially if you were a repeat customer.

its a really easy job on most rigs. just gotta hold your mouth right

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 12:12 PM
I'm full of negativity because you keep handing me these life lessons I never once asked for...

I don't give a shit what you guys charge for anything. Charge 2 billion dollars per labor hour for all I care...

this whole thread was a 'hey I think I'm going to ask these guys tomorrow if they can change out this side mirror for $20 because I just want to get it done and I was told it was a 5 minute job, what is the etiquette on that?'

to which Bwana told me 'no way in hell.'

to which I thought, cool.../thread over...glad I didn't embarrass myself

but then I get 10 life lessons and a 14,000 character post telling me how much of a dipshit I was from Mr. Body Shop Man exoter

to which I said, "fine...I'd hire a Mexican to do this easy job anyways..."

because, as cheap as you think I'm being, I DON'T NEED TO SPEND MONEY ON THIS CAR TO REPLACE A MIRROR I DON'T EVEN REALLY USE. I'M ONLY REPLACING IT BECAUSE I FOUND THE PART ON EBAY FOR $100 AND I WAS TIRED OF DRIVING AROUND ON A BUSTED MIRROR (THAT SOMEONE VANDALIZED) AND LOOKING LIKE A FUCKING SCUMBAG.

I'm not NOT paying for your LABOR HOUR because I'm cheap, I'm not paying it because it isn't worth anything to me....this car gets me to and from...it's not my 'pride and joy'...I don't give a shit what it looks like...it was a nice car for a really, really long time...now I'm just riding it out until it dies because it still runs really well.

Legitimately the only reason I am getting this fixed is because, as a respectable adult, I feel like I shouldn't be driving around with a busted side mirror and looking like I am from the god damn ghetto in a fucking Audi.

You don't get it, and it is exceptionally hard to drive the point through your head, despite the fact that I've gotten much praise in PMs and Rep for my "14,000 character posts".

The point I'm trying to drive home to you is simply this.

-You clearly do not understand how a business works, how it operates, the costs associated with US bringing the Services to YOU, and extending that coverage in the case that something bad and unforeseen happens.

You sit here and bitch about not spending more than 20 dollars to get it fixed because the car is worth nothing to you, but that isn't how a mechanic or shop owner sees it. Just because you don't have pride of ownership in your stuff, doesn't mean that we don't have pride in our work.

Even if a car is worth 1 dollar, it doesn't devalue my services offered to you, that is your choice to get it fixed, but you should NEVER assume or suspect that the cost of repair would be cheap because it is a cheap car, and that is exactly what you've done here.

You commented on the fact that you'd rather toss 20 bucks to a mexican to have them fix your car, than to have your mechanic do it, if it isn't less than 20 dollars.

All I did is explain to you how business works from inside the business all the way to the customer.

The problem here is either your skull is too thick, or you really are just too stupid in the world of business to understand what I've told you.

Not my problem.

I will admit though, I used you as a soapbox to hopefully explain to others how the business works so people like you don't make the same foolish mistakes.

i cant see raising the labor because i didnt make money on the parts.

thats not really ethical to me, and i put parts people bring with them just about EVERY day. i charge what the labor would be and make sure to let them know AND note on the ticket that the parts were customer supplied and not under warranty in any way by my shop.

if thats not acceptable they can go elsewhere but i cant see charging more to make up for it.

book time is book time.

but again that probably why i'm still in business and running my ass off every day working on tons of cars

Read that again Sauto, I didn't speak about raising the labor hour because I wouldn't make profit, in fact it was the inverse, that I wouldn't be lowering the labor hour because I couldn't make profit on it.

Disregard the unethical bit, it is strictly unlawful to do so in a place of business.

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 12:12 PM
You don't get it, and never will. LMAO



Good luck. You know that you are the equivalent of the guy expecting to get a free or discounted beer even though he never tips and/or rarely comes into the bar.

"But the beer only cost you $.75! Why do you charge $3!"


Or better yet, you are the guy that tries to sneak his own beer in.



Reality is a bitch. You could have replaced the mirror yourself instead of wasting time complaining about it here.

I am ignorant when it comes to cars. No doubt in my mind. I'd never say otherwise. I made this thread because I was willing to spend $20 on this process and was wondering if I'd come off as rude to make that offer when I went in today for my appointment. That was all.

As for the second part in your argument...I'm a well documented bar frequenter...I'm also a well documented douche bag.

Do you really think these bars would let me ever come back if I A) brought my own beer in and B) didn't tip?

100% of my expendable income is spent on bars and, more importantly, tips...because if I didn't tip and tip very well these bars would never let me come back in.

JASONSAUTO
03-11-2013, 12:14 PM
You don't get it, and it is exceptionally hard to drive the point through your head, despite the fact that I've gotten much praise in PMs and Rep for my "14,000 character posts".

The point I'm trying to drive home to you is simply this.

-You clearly do not understand how a business works, how it operates, the costs associated with US bringing the Services to YOU, and extending that coverage in the case that something bad and unforeseen happens.

You sit here and bitch about not spending more than 20 dollars to get it fixed because the car is worth nothing to you, but that isn't how a mechanic or shop owner sees it. Just because you don't have pride of ownership in your stuff, doesn't mean that we don't have pride in our work.

Even if a car is worth 1 dollar, it doesn't devalue my services offered to you, that is your choice to get it fixed, but you should NEVER assume or suspect that the cost of repair would be cheap because it is a cheap car, and that is exactly what you've done here.

You commented on the fact that you'd rather toss 20 bucks to a mexican to have them fix your car, than to have your mechanic do it, if it isn't less than 20 dollars.

All I did is explain to you how business works from inside the business all the way to the customer.

The problem here is either your skull is too thick, or you really are just too stupid in the world of business to understand what I've told you.

Not my problem.

I will admit though, I used you as a soapbox to hopefully explain to others how the business works so people like you don't make the same foolish mistakes.



Read that again Sauto, I didn't speak about raising the labor hour because I wouldn't make profit, in fact it was the inverse, that I wouldn't be lowering the labor hour because I couldn't make profit on it.

Disregard the unethical bit, it is strictly unlawful to do so in a place of business.

why would you raise the labor rate 10-20% then?

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 12:15 PM
in my shop?


probably right around 20 bucks. LOL. seriously.

especially if you were a repeat customer.

its a really easy job on most rigs. just gotta hold your mouth right

my roommate is a big car guy and he told me to go in there and ask them if they could do it for $20 since I already had the part and since it was such an easy thing to do...

as a person who doesn't like to make an asshole out of myself (sober at least), I made this thread to solicit opinions on whether or not this "hey by the way, I have this mirror and was wondering if I could get you to change it for like $20" would be an offensive offer and apparently not only is it offensive...but it warranted 35 life lessons.

notorious
03-11-2013, 12:17 PM
but it warranted 35 life lessons.

This is how we roll.


You do have the unique ability to draw a lot of attention.

Pestilence
03-11-2013, 12:17 PM
my roommate is a big car guy and he told me to go in there and ask them if they could do it for $20 since I already had the part and since it was such an easy thing to do...

as a person who doesn't like to make an asshole out of myself (sober at least), I made this thread to solicit opinions on whether or not this "hey by the way, I have this mirror and was wondering if I could get you to change it for like $20" would be an offensive offer and apparently not only is it offensive...but it warranted 35 life lessons.

I wouldn't offer up an actual number. I'd just ask them how much they would charge since they're already working on your car. If you don't like the quote....obviously don't do it.

JASONSAUTO
03-11-2013, 12:17 PM
Labor Hour. If you don't understand what Labor Hour is, or what it means, you shouldn't be dictating price.

Simply put, Labor Hour is what I'm going to charge you PER HOUR to fix your car. IT doesn't stop there though, because I'm probably going to pull up something like Mitchell or Alldata to find out how long it is going to take me to fix it, when you come in and ask for a quote, and I'm probably going to mark up the base labor hour by 10-25% on top of that.

Why? Because its going to cost me 400+ per day to have this building with these tools, with these employees, with the insurance to cover all of them, just to be in business. I have to make my money somewhere, and where I make it is labor hour, and parts.

. see here is where you said you would RAISE the labor rate by 10 - 20 %


that IMO is unethical. Book times are there for a reason.

it doesnt matter what your building and employees cost you. not making money? do better work.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 12:18 PM
and exoter...

I'm not the type of person to ever go into a place of business and make any demands. I may go get an estimate, and if I feel like it is too much, I don't barter. I thank them and move along...

I work in the hotel industry now and I fucking hate people who call me and barter their rates...it happens every fucking day and drives me crazy.

So I am not a hypocrite. Someone quotes me...I either pay it or I don't...but I don't make demands and I don't say 'how about this amount instead?' I'm not that type of person even if I wanted to be...I would find it to be awkward.

No, you'll post here on your personal blog about it before you even get a chance to barter, you'll have already set your rate because you don't know better, and then yell at those who seek to enlighten you so you don't make the same mistakes.

You don't get it, and never will. LMAO



Good luck. You know that you are the equivalent of the guy expecting to get a free or discounted beer even though he never tips and/or rarely comes into the bar.

"But the beer only cost you $.75! Why do you charge $3!"


Or better yet, you are the guy that tries to sneak his own beer in.



Reality is a bitch. You could have replaced the mirror yourself instead of wasting time complaining about it here.

This guy gets it :thumb:

so I'm getting some basic electrical work done on my car today and they said since it is an Audi it'll take about an hour and cost around $120...

if this was your shop and your quote how much additional would you charge me to install my own side mirror on a car that I was told the job is VERY simple and not time consuming?

I'm honestly JUST curious.

However much the labor hour is on the repair, simple as that. If you are a buddy or repeat customer, probably free. That's how the business works. If you are some Joe Schmoe off the street, labor hour is what you get. If I NEED your business badly, I'll probably knock 20-40% off the labor hour. But you rarely see that unless it is a mom and pop shop.

Hopefully you've never bought food from a street vendor. You can't be sure that the hotdogs are cooked properly. It's a very complicated and expensive processes. If the cart explodes and kills your entire family, they probably won't even give you a free brownie weigh a scoop of ice cream on top.

Street Vendors in most places are required by law to hold some kind of coverage, in this case though, there are many coverages they don't have to keep. In the case that they aren't filed as an LLC/LLP, I'll be suing them directly, if they were an LLC/LLP I'll be suing the business. However, since they are a street vendor, they don't have a landlord and thus don't cover liability for accidental mishaps in an environment, that is going to be done on a strictly "as is" basis.

in my shop?


probably right around 20 bucks. LOL. seriously.

especially if you were a repeat customer.

its a really easy job on most rigs. just gotta hold your mouth right

And your labor hour is like what? 50-60 bucks because you are in BFE right?

Sounds basically spot on to what I said a few quotes ago.

seclark
03-11-2013, 12:18 PM
I wouldn't offer up an actual number. I'd just ask them how much they would charge since they're already working on your car. If you don't like the quote....obviously don't do it.

damn, that seems pretty fuckin simple...
sec

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 12:18 PM
You don't get it, and it is exceptionally hard to drive the point through your head, despite the fact that I've gotten much praise in PMs and Rep for my "14,000 character posts".

The point I'm trying to drive home to you is simply this.

-You clearly do not understand how a business works, how it operates, the costs associated with US bringing the Services to YOU, and extending that coverage in the case that something bad and unforeseen happens.

You sit here and bitch about not spending more than 20 dollars to get it fixed because the car is worth nothing to you, but that isn't how a mechanic or shop owner sees it. Just because you don't have pride of ownership in your stuff, doesn't mean that we don't have pride in our work.

Even if a car is worth 1 dollar, it doesn't devalue my services offered to you, that is your choice to get it fixed, but you should NEVER assume or suspect that the cost of repair would be cheap because it is a cheap car, and that is exactly what you've done here.

You commented on the fact that you'd rather toss 20 bucks to a mexican to have them fix your car, than to have your mechanic do it, if it isn't less than 20 dollars.

All I did is explain to you how business works from inside the business all the way to the customer.

The problem here is either your skull is too thick, or you really are just too stupid in the world of business to understand what I've told you.

Not my problem.

I will admit though, I used you as a soapbox to hopefully explain to others how the business works so people like you don't make the same foolish mistakes.



Read that again Sauto, I didn't speak about raising the labor hour because I wouldn't make profit, in fact it was the inverse, that I wouldn't be lowering the labor hour because I couldn't make profit on it.

Disregard the unethical bit, it is strictly unlawful to do so in a place of business.

Get the fuck over yourself. He's not bitching about how much it costs. He's just saying that it isn't worth $100+ to have a mechanic snap on a mirror when he can do it himself, have a friend do it, or pay a laborer $20.

JASONSAUTO
03-11-2013, 12:18 PM
my roommate is a big car guy and he told me to go in there and ask them if they could do it for $20 since I already had the part and since it was such an easy thing to do...

as a person who doesn't like to make an asshole out of myself (sober at least), I made this thread to solicit opinions on whether or not this "hey by the way, I have this mirror and was wondering if I could get you to change it for like $20" would be an offensive offer and apparently not only is it offensive...but it warranted 35 life lessons.

i understood the question right off.

it will never hurt to ask. all they can do is do the job or say no and laugh at you when you leave.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 12:19 PM
why would you raise the labor rate 10-20% then?

Re-read again, I wouldn't be raising my labor rate by 10-20% on a job per job basis as you imply.

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 12:21 PM
you explained shit to me that I didn't ask to be explained...I understand 100% of what you said. I understood it the first time.

At no point did I not understand it. I GET IT.

my fucking God

TO ME, THE GUY WITHOUT THE FUCKING MIRROR, THE FIX IS WORTH $20. IF NO ONE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD WOULD FIX IT FOR $20 AND I COULDN'T FIX IT MYSELF...I JUST WOULDN'T FIX IT.

Did anyone read that 'best one line of advice' you ever got thread?

one guy's dad said to him when he was bragging about how much his comic collection was worth "it's only worth as much as someone will pay for it."

well in this case, I'm that someone...

and for someone who doesn't give a shit about this car and ALREADY HAS THE FUCKING PART...it is worth $20 god damn dollars to me...if that isn't worth it to said business, then that's fine with me and I hold no ill will and totally understand.

if that $20 is worth it to a Mexican then fucking score one for me!

PRETTY SURE I DON'T NEED A WARRANTY, LIABILITY, INSURANCE, OR A LAWYER FOR SOMEONE TO INSTALL A FUCKING MIRROR THAT I ALREADY OWN AND HAVE PAID FOR...

and if it isn't worth $20 for 5 minutes of someone's time then I understand. I do. I totally get it. That's why I made the thread. I wanted to know if 'big business' auto shops would consider doing something THIS EASY for the $20 I was willing to pay for something that was offered to me free of charge.

THAT WAS FUCKING IT. THE END.

EXOTER YOUR POST COULD HAVE BEEN:

HEY PEYTON'S PRINCESS, I OWN A SHOP. NO FUCKING WAY WOULD WE DO THIS. DON'T EVEN ASK.

and that would have been WAY MORE INFORMATIVE TO ME then the 210,000 character life lesson you decided to give to me

notorious
03-11-2013, 12:21 PM
I don't blame you for going cheap, Hootie. It's a mirror on an old car. Just have your buddy do it and drink a beer with him afterward.


Some jobs need to be done by a rock-solid business that charges full rates. A mirror is not one of them.

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 12:22 PM
I wouldn't offer up an actual number. I'd just ask them how much they would charge since they're already working on your car. If you don't like the quote....obviously don't do it.

I probably will do this today...

I'll be like "hey, sup bros! Notice my jacked up mirror? Well I brought the new one along and was wondering how much it would cost for you guys to snap that on for me?"

that's not a bad idea

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 12:23 PM
I wouldn't offer up an actual number. I'd just ask them how much they would charge since they're already working on your car. If you don't like the quote....obviously don't do it.

see here is where you said you would RAISE the labor rate by 10 - 20 %


that IMO is unethical. Book times are there for a reason.

it doesnt matter what your building and employees cost you. not making money? do better work.


You mistunderstood the quote.

What I'm saying here is that there is labor hour, and then there is MY labor hour. If you have Mitchell or Alldata, you've probably noticed that you can mark up your labor hour.

As in, if Alldata says 2.0 hours base to fix it, in the settings this can be marked up by a percentage, so when it quotes it, it'll be 2.4 hours, instead of 2.0.

Now, I don't mean for you to read this as a person to person basis or job to job basis.

What I mean by this is when I opened business, I set my markup ahead of time.

I'm trying to give this kid an idea of what it actually takes to work on his car, what its going to cost him, and WHY it costs him that much.

In the interest of full transparency, I'm letting him know exactly how the business works so he doesn't get any misunderstandings.

Sorry that it came off that way to you, but I'm writing a ton of replies in two threads right now lol.

Steron
03-11-2013, 12:23 PM
I fucking love this thread!

Pestilence
03-11-2013, 12:23 PM
you explained shit to me that I didn't ask to be explained...I understand 100% of what you said. I understood it the first time.

At no point did I not understand it. I GET IT.

my fucking God

TO ME, THE GUY WITHOUT THE FUCKING MIRROR, THE FIX IS WORTH $20. IF NO ONE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD WOULD FIX IT FOR $20 AND I COULDN'T FIX IT MYSELF...I JUST WOULDN'T FIX IT.

Did anyone read that 'best one line of advice' you ever got thread?

one guy's dad said to him when he was bragging about how much his comic collection was worth "it's only worth as much as someone will pay for it."

well in this case, I'm that someone...

and for someone who doesn't give a shit about this car and ALREADY HAS THE FUCKING PART...it is worth $20 god damn dollars to me...if that isn't worth it to said business, then that's fine with me and I hold no ill will and totally understand.

if that $20 is worth it to a Mexican then fucking score one for me!

PRETTY SURE I DON'T NEED A WARRANTY, LIABILITY, INSURANCE, OR A LAWYER FOR SOMEONE TO INSTALL A FUCKING MIRROR THAT I ALREADY OWN AND HAVE PAID FOR...

and if it isn't worth $20 for 5 minutes of someone's time then I understand. I do. I totally get it. That's why I made the thread. I wanted to know if 'big business' auto shops would consider doing something THIS EASY for the $20 I was willing to pay for something that was offered to me free of charge.

THAT WAS FUCKING IT. THE END.

EXOTER YOUR POST COULD HAVE BEEN:

HEY PEYTON'S PRINCESS, I OWN A SHOP. NO FUCKING WAY WOULD WE DO THIS. DON'T EVEN ASK.

and that would have been WAY MORE INFORMATIVE TO ME then the 210,000 character life lesson you decided to give to me

That was me.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 12:23 PM
You don't get it, and never will. LMAO



Good luck. You know that you are the equivalent of the guy expecting to get a free or discounted beer even though he never tips and/or rarely comes into the bar.

"But the beer only cost you $.75! Why do you charge $3!"


Or better yet, you are the guy that tries to sneak his own beer in.



Reality is a bitch. You could have replaced the mirror yourself instead of wasting time complaining about it here.

This is a terrible analogy.

notorious
03-11-2013, 12:25 PM
This is a terrible analogy.

Whoopie.

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 12:25 PM
damn, that seems pretty ****in simple...
sec

I agree, I n00bed myself. I just know I'm not willing to pay more than $20 for it...

but now that makes me cheap.

If I was ugly as sin and couldn't get a chick with a $300 bill hanging out of my zipper...

I'm not going to go to the mall and spend $500 on a new t-shirt.

Old Dog
03-11-2013, 12:26 PM
What I'm getting from this thread is if I'm ever in that neck of the woods and need work done on a vehicle, there's an honest one on the board (and it ain't the one jacking up the labor rates).

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 12:26 PM
I'm the guy that spent $10 on XBox Live to give my avatar a Chiefs jersey and Air Jordan's...

that's how cheap I am

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 12:27 PM
i understood the question right off.

it will never hurt to ask. all they can do is do the job or say no and laugh at you when you leave.

A couple of hours ago, I would have agreed. I now know that some self-important mechanics will insist upon lecturing him about all sorts of tangential topics in addition to swearing at him and hurling insults his way.

Go with the Mexican. It's not worth the risk of crossing paths with some insufferable asshole.

Old Dog
03-11-2013, 12:28 PM
I agree, I n00bed myself. I just know I'm not willing to pay more than $20 for it...
but now that makes me cheap.
If I was ugly as sin and couldn't get a chick with a $300 bill hanging out of my zipper...
I'm not going to go to the mall and spend $500 on a new t-shirt.

Try a $50. Even a dumb blonde knows there's no such thing as a $300 bill.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 12:28 PM
Get the fuck over yourself. He's not bitching about how much it costs. He's just saying that it isn't worth $100+ to have a mechanic snap on a mirror when he can do it himself, have a friend do it, or pay a laborer $20.

Anytime Sauto starts arguing in a thread with me, there you are to talk shit on top, its like you two are paired together.

I'd be fine with your comment if that had been the case, but in the case that you didn't read this thread, he didn't say that. He didn't bitch like that. He went on a fucking tirade about how expensive everything is and how he was getting "Screwed" because it should only take 5 minutes.

yes, it probably only will take 5 minutes, but you don't pay for 5 minutes of labor hour, you pay for the job, any marked up labor hour they have, and in many case, they won't do the job.

I explain to him and everyone else with the same misconception how this business works so they don't get the same idea this kid had.

you explained shit to me that I didn't ask to be explained...I understand 100% of what you said. I understood it the first time.

At no point did I not understand it. I GET IT.

my fucking God

TO ME, THE GUY WITHOUT THE FUCKING MIRROR, THE FIX IS WORTH $20. IF NO ONE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD WOULD FIX IT FOR $20 AND I COULDN'T FIX IT MYSELF...I JUST WOULDN'T FIX IT.

Did anyone read that 'best one line of advice' you ever got thread?

one guy's dad said to him when he was bragging about how much his comic collection was worth "it's only worth as much as someone will pay for it."

well in this case, I'm that someone...

and for someone who doesn't give a shit about this car and ALREADY HAS THE FUCKING PART...it is worth $20 god damn dollars to me...if that isn't worth it to said business, then that's fine with me and I hold no ill will and totally understand.

if that $20 is worth it to a Mexican then fucking score one for me!

PRETTY SURE I DON'T NEED A WARRANTY, LIABILITY, INSURANCE, OR A LAWYER FOR SOMEONE TO INSTALL A FUCKING MIRROR THAT I ALREADY OWN AND HAVE PAID FOR...

and if it isn't worth $20 for 5 minutes of someone's time then I understand. I do. I totally get it. That's why I made the thread. I wanted to know if 'big business' auto shops would consider doing something THIS EASY for the $20 I was willing to pay for something that was offered to me free of charge.

THAT WAS FUCKING IT. THE END.

EXOTER YOUR POST COULD HAVE BEEN:

HEY PEYTON'S PRINCESS, I OWN A SHOP. NO FUCKING WAY WOULD WE DO THIS. DON'T EVEN ASK.

and that would have been WAY MORE INFORMATIVE TO ME then the 210,000 character life lesson you decided to give to me



You were told that, you carried on.

But, you see, there is more to it than telling you it wouldn't happen.

You need to understand WHY it wouldn't happen, because some day you might be a customer of somebody on this site, and you will establish a good relationship with them because you are that much more INFORMED on how these business are ran, so you don't insult someone, or that knowing what you know now, you can find a good, honest mechanic out there, because believe me, there are plenty of crooks out there with a Business name and Tax ID that will take your money when you aren't looking.

I'm just trying to help inform the average Joe so they know what they are dealing with.

Sorry for Enlightening you and the rest of the world so you don't look like a giant douchebag wearing an asshat.

Saccopoo
03-11-2013, 12:31 PM
I agree, I n00bed myself. I just know I'm not willing to pay more than $20 for it...

but now that makes me cheap.

If I was ugly as sin and couldn't get a chick with a $300 bill hanging out of my zipper...

I'm not going to go to the mall and spend $500 on a new t-shirt.

It's a $40/$50 dollar repair on labor at a shop.

Part is $25 to $50 depending on model.

You are most likely going to ruin some of the plastic toggles that are holding the door panel on in the removal of said door panel. Also the mirror is usually attached with bolts that use a small hex head. If you don't have one, you are going to have to buy one.

My suggestion is find the part cheap on the intranets and have a shop slap it on for you. It's not a $20 repair though. It's a $40/$50 repair. And if you don't have replacement toggles and the correct tools, you're going to end up paying someone else to do it anyway once you kinda screw it up.

notorious
03-11-2013, 12:32 PM
One thing is certain, Hootie can start a run-of-the-mill thread and it almost always ends up being entertaining.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 12:32 PM
You mistunderstood the quote.

What I'm saying here is that there is labor hour, and then there is MY labor hour. If you have Mitchell or Alldata, you've probably noticed that you can mark up your labor hour.

As in, if Alldata says 2.0 hours base to fix it, in the settings this can be marked up by a percentage, so when it quotes it, it'll be 2.4 hours, instead of 2.0.

Now, I don't mean for you to read this as a person to person basis or job to job basis.

What I mean by this is when I opened business, I set my markup ahead of time.

I'm trying to give this kid an idea of what it actually takes to work on his car, what its going to cost him, and WHY it costs him that much.

In the interest of full transparency, I'm letting him know exactly how the business works so he doesn't get any misunderstandings.

Sorry that it came off that way to you, but I'm writing a ton of replies in two threads right now lol.

You're a fucking crook. If it takes 2 hours to do a job, and you bill it at 2.4, fuck you for being a thief. Charge whatever the fuck you want per hour. Just don't lie about the number of hours. That is outright theft.

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 12:32 PM
I'd be fine with your comment if that had been the case, but in the case that you didn't read this thread, he didn't say that. He didn't bitch like that. He went on a ****ing tirade about how expensive everything is and how he was getting "Screwed" because it should only take 5 minutes.


WTF are you talking about?!

The first time I bitched in this entire thread was when I, half asleep, read the 2.5 million character life lesson you handed me last night...

I couldn't believe a simple question turned into me being an ignorant dipshit who didn't know anything about business or the business world...

all because I had purchased a side mirror from ebay, had a previous appointment at a body shop scheduled for today, and wanted to know if they would do a small task like this for $20 or if I should just have a friend do it for free...

no bitching happened until your 5.2 billion character life lesson post set me off

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 12:34 PM
what I'm trying to say is...I'm on tap for about $100 of work tomorrow and with that I don't expect to pay more than $20 for them to install the mirror...is that reasonable? If they want to charge me more I already have a friend who said he'd do it free of charge but I rather not use his time if I can just pay $20 or so when I'm already taking my car in tomorrow as is

THIS IS POST FOUR OF THE THREAD AND THIS IS WHY I RECEIVED A LIFE LESSON OF 9.1 TRILLION CHARACTERS.

I even asked if it was reasonable...to which Bwana said 'fuck no', and then I just assumed this thread would die because I understood.

but no...a 21 trillion character life lesson ensued.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 12:35 PM
What I'm getting from this thread is if I'm ever in that neck of the woods and need work done on a vehicle, there's an honest one on the board (and it ain't the one jacking up the labor rates).
Labor Hour, you mean, and its how just about everybody does business.

I mean, there are those on this board that buy ASE signs and hang them at their shops without earning their certificates.........

I'm the guy that spent $10 on XBox Live to give my avatar a Chiefs jersey and Air Jordan's...

that's how cheap I am

And yet you wouldn't spend more than 20 dollars to fix a mirror to increase your safety and the safety of everyone around you, in a vehicle that is likely your lifeblood for getting you to school or work?

yeah, that makes sense dude.LMAOROFL

A couple of hours ago, I would have agreed. I now know that some self-important mechanics will insist upon lecturing him about all sorts of tangential topics in addition to swearing at him and hurling insults his way.

Go with the Mexican. It's not worth the risk of crossing paths with some insufferable asshole.

Instead of being passive aggressive, why don't you get it out and say what you mean?

I'm enlightening the kid, and you're just pissy because I decided to explain to you A. the risks involved with fixing your own brakes and B. how the fucking world works in business.

My bad, I'll skip the educational process of America and NOT enlighten those I might do business with, so I can deal with the headaches later of running into some guy who wants a motor swap done for 20 dollars because he drives an 81 civic work 50 bucks and doesn't want the cost of the work to go over the cost of the car.:banghead:

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 12:35 PM
Anytime Sauto starts arguing in a thread with me, there you are to talk shit on top, its like you two are paired together.

I'd be fine with your comment if that had been the case, but in the case that you didn't read this thread, he didn't say that. He didn't bitch like that. He went on a ****ing tirade about how expensive everything is and how he was getting "Screwed" because it should only take 5 minutes.

yes, it probably only will take 5 minutes, but you don't pay for 5 minutes of labor hour, you pay for the job, any marked up labor hour they have, and in many case, they won't do the job.

I explain to him and everyone else with the same misconception how this business works so they don't get the same idea this kid had.





You were told that, you carried on.

But, you see, there is more to it than telling you it wouldn't happen.

You need to understand WHY it wouldn't happen, because some day you might be a customer of somebody on this site, and you will establish a good relationship with them because you are that much more INFORMED on how these business are ran, so you don't insult someone, or that knowing what you know now, you can find a good, honest mechanic out there, because believe me, there are plenty of crooks out there with a Business name and Tax ID that will take your money when you aren't looking.

I'm just trying to help inform the average Joe so they know what they are dealing with.

Sorry for Enlightening you and the rest of the world so you don't look like a giant douchebag wearing an asshat.

The only enlightenment you've done is to highlight what a fucking shyster you are.

Steron
03-11-2013, 12:36 PM
One thing is certain, Hootie can start a run-of-the-mill thread and it almost always ends up being entertaining.

I keep hitting refresh HOPING for a new post. My God, I need a life.

notorious
03-11-2013, 12:36 PM
THIS IS POST FOUR OF THE THREAD AND THIS IS WHY I RECEIVED A LIFE LESSON OF 9.1 TRILLION CHARACTERS.

I even asked if it was reasonable...to which Bwana said '**** no', and then I just assumed this thread would die because I understood.

but no...a 21 trillion character life lesson ensued.

Well, you kind of bring it on yourself by responding to every post.


I don't want you to stop, though. This thread is getting me thorugh a day of sickness.

Saccopoo
03-11-2013, 12:37 PM
I'm the guy that spent $10 on XBox Live to give my avatar a Chiefs jersey and Air Jordan's...

that's how cheap I am

That's $10 more than I'd ever spend on an XBox Live Avatar.

If you can piss away $10 on an avatar, the $40 to pay a shop to make sure your window gets put on correctly is going to be a bargain.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 12:38 PM
Labor Hour, you mean, and its how just about everybody does business.

I mean, there are those on this board that buy ASE signs and hang them at their shops without earning their certificates.........



And yet you wouldn't spend more than 20 dollars to fix a mirror to increase your safety and the safety of everyone around you, in a vehicle that is likely your lifeblood for getting you to school or work?

yeah, that makes sense dude.LMAOROFL



Instead of being passive aggressive, why don't you get it out and say what you mean?

I'm enlightening the kid, and you're just pissy because I decided to explain to you A. the risks involved with fixing your own brakes and B. how the ****ing world works in business.

My bad, I'll skip the educational process of America and NOT enlighten those I might do business with, so I can deal with the headaches later of running into some guy who wants a motor swap done for 20 dollars because he drives an 81 civic work 50 bucks and doesn't want the cost of the work to go over the cost of the car.:banghead:

Passive aggressive? Who is being passive aggressive? I'm not dropping subtle, backhanded digs. I'm saying flat-out that you are a crook. Nothing passive aggressive about it.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 12:38 PM
You're a fucking crook. If it takes 2 hours to do a job, and you bill it at 2.4, fuck you for being a thief. Charge whatever the fuck you want per hour. Just don't lie about the number of hours. That is outright theft.

Then every mechanic you know, including Sauto is a crook.


Also, it shows to me that you know nothing about the business.

let me give you a hypothetical of how this works.

My labor hour is $80 an hour
My labor hour markup is 10%
You Car is booking at 2.2 Hours to fix (2.0 standard)
It takes me 45 minutes to fix.

Every business is going to charge you that 2.2 Hours to fix, unless they are the 1% of business out there that don't mark their labor hour up. In which case you get charged for 2.0 hours.

It still took us 45 minutes to fix, and you get charged 2 hours.

Are we crooks then?

If you say yes, then it appears to me that you haven't read a god damned thing in this thread, and are only trying to troll at this point, because your lack of business sense or reading comprehension are low or non existent.

Old Dog
03-11-2013, 12:40 PM
It's a rare day indeed when I agree with Saul Good very many times, but I must agree. It appears to be pissing off Extorter, but I've always believed in calling a spade a spade (or a thief a thief in this instance).

Reps to Saul

seclark
03-11-2013, 12:40 PM
One thing is certain, Hootie can start a run-of-the-mill thread and it almost always ends up being entertaining.

i know...i wonder if the dude that kicked the shit out of that mirror had any idea what he was starting.;)
sec

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 12:42 PM
The only enlightenment you've done is to highlight what a fucking shyster you are.

Actually, I think there would a lot of people who disagree with you, I'm just unveiling what goes on behind the scenes at every shop.

Passive aggressive? Who is being passive aggressive? I'm not dropping subtle, backhanded digs. I'm saying flat-out that you are a crook. Nothing passive aggressive about it.

You are now, but you weren't before saying that there are "crooks on this board" when you were clearly talking to me.

Funny thing is, I am no crook, I'm the one here walking through the business process step by step with everyone so they know how to work.

You call me a shyster, but your best buddy Sauto who claims to be a master tech, couldn't even explain to me which tests he took to become a master tech.

If anyone is the Shyster, it is him. But that is an argument for another thread, just like your passive aggressive posts should be kept to another thread.

The problem with that? You have a hardon for me because I insulted Sauto and you are his right hand man, he gives, you take, its a happy marriage between you two.J

Get off my nuts Saul, you aren't ready for them.

notorious
03-11-2013, 12:42 PM
i know...i wonder if the dude that kicked the shit out of that mirror had any idea what he was starting.;)
sec

ROFL

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 12:42 PM
That's $10 more than I'd ever spend on an XBox Live Avatar.

If you can piss away $10 on an avatar, the $40 to pay a shop to make sure your window gets put on correctly is going to be a bargain.

yeah my roommate LOL'd at me when I did it...

but Scary Berry 29 looks pretty fly with his Air Jordan 12s

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 12:43 PM
It's a rare day indeed when I agree with Saul Good very many times, but I must agree. It appears to be pissing off Extorter, but I've always believed in calling a spade a spade (or a thief a thief in this instance).

Reps to Saul


Explain to me how I am a thief, I'd love to hear that.

Not a single business in this country charges their labor hour based on the actual time spent. Not even ol' buddy Sauto can claim that with a straight face.

Steron
03-11-2013, 12:43 PM
Then every mechanic you know, including Sauto is a crook.


Also, it shows to me that you know nothing about the business.

let me give you a hypothetical of how this works.

My labor hour is $80 an hour
My labor hour markup is 10%
You Car is booking at 2.2 Hours to fix (2.0 standard)
It takes me 45 minutes to fix.

Every business is going to charge you that 2.2 Hours to fix, unless they are the 1% of business out there that don't mark their labor hour up. In which case you get charged for 2.0 hours.

It still took us 45 minutes to fix, and you get charged 2 hours.

Are we crooks then?

If you say yes, then it appears to me that you haven't read a god damned thing in this thread, and are only trying to troll at this point, because your lack of business sense or reading comprehension are low or non existent.

Forgive me if this question is crazy. I really have no idea how the auto repair business works. Is the Labor Hour price fixed? Or is it based on the experience of the mechanic doing the work? If a mechanic with 20 years experience fixes my car, is the charge more than if one with 1 year is doing it?

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 12:44 PM
Then every mechanic you know, including Sauto is a crook.


Also, it shows to me that you know nothing about the business.

let me give you a hypothetical of how this works.

My labor hour is $80 an hour
My labor hour markup is 10%
You Car is booking at 2.2 Hours to fix (2.0 standard)
It takes me 45 minutes to fix.

Every business is going to charge you that 2.2 Hours to fix, unless they are the 1% of business out there that don't mark their labor hour up. In which case you get charged for 2.0 hours.

It still took us 45 minutes to fix, and you get charged 2 hours.

Are we crooks then?

If you say yes, then it appears to me that you haven't read a god damned thing in this thread, and are only trying to troll at this point, because your lack of business sense or reading comprehension are low or non existent.

Yes. You are an unethical crook. Padding hours is theft.

notorious
03-11-2013, 12:45 PM
You won't get charged more for the job, but the per hour charge will be higher.


Experienced guy = less time for same price

Typically that is how it ends up.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 12:46 PM
Forgive me if this question is crazy. I really have no idea how the auto repair business works. Is the Labor Hour price fixed? Or is it based on the experience of the mechanic doing the work? If a mechanic with 20 years experience fixes my car, is the charge more than if one with 1 year is doing it?

The Labor Hour Price is not only fixed for every business, but it SHOULD be visibly posted for you to see, so you can be the judge of what is going on. It should not be hidden, and it should be posted in multiple locations.

Labor Price will depend on the shop. Some ships will charge more than others, some will undercut for business, some will increase it so they can slow down the number of cars coming in because they are swamped.

It can, however, change at any time, but it should NEVER change for you once you walk in that door.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 12:49 PM
Forgive me if this question is crazy. I really have no idea how the auto repair business works. Is the Labor Hour price fixed? Or is it based on the experience of the mechanic doing the work? If a mechanic with 20 years experience fixes my car, is the charge more than if one with 1 year is doing it?

They can raise their rates up to whatever they want. Rounding up hours is borderline unethical. At the very least, it should be disclosed that they bill based on full hours, minimum labor charges, book times, etc. Simply fabricating hours that were never worked and never should have been worked is theft. (It's also illegal.)

Source: I used to work as an insurance adjuster.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 12:49 PM
Yes. You are an unethical crook. Padding hours is theft.

You don't understand how business works and you just called your buddy Sauto a crook as well.

We don't charge based on how long it takes us to fix it. We don't charge based on flat book hour as well, 99.9% of the time that book hour is marked up.

Did you also know that both Mitchell and Alldata have different book hours for everything? So I can pick and choose what I want to book if I was really that interested in spending that much time to steal your monies.

I've had times where it took me over book hour to fix something, I didn't charge them more.

Somehow I'm a crook. Sweet.

DeezNutz
03-11-2013, 12:49 PM
Mechanics don't punch a clock in and out on a job. From my understanding, most repairs have a "set time" in the books for how long they should take. If the mechanics finish early, customers aren't catching a break on cost.

Steron
03-11-2013, 12:50 PM
You won't get charged more for the job, but the per hour charge will be higher.


Experienced guy = less time for same price

Typically that is how it ends up.

Even if both are working at the same shop? I would guess that the more experienced tech gets the more difficult jobs.

Just for argument's sake.

Hootie's mirror is a 2 hour job. A newer guy gets this assignment. Is there still the 2.4 hour quote or based on simplicity, does it get a 2 hour quote?

Say my transmission is an 8 hour job. An experienced guy gets that assignment. Does the labor hour quote get the added .4 based on having to pay that tech more?


**Nevermind** It got answered as I was posting this**

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 12:50 PM
Exoter: Let us know the name of your shop if you're so proud of your business practices.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 12:51 PM
They can raise their rates up to whatever they want. Rounding up hours is borderline unethical. At the very least, it should be disclosed that they bill based on full hours, minimum labor charges, book times, etc. Simply fabricating hours that were never worked and never should have been worked is theft. (It's also illegal.)

Source: I used to work as an insurance adjuster.

So, which am I? Because according to your post here, I'm an honest businessman, but a few posts back I am a crook.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 12:51 PM
Mechanics don't punch a clock in and out on a job. From my understanding, most repairs have a "set time" in the books for how long they should take. If the mechanics finish early, customers aren't catching a break on cost.

Bingo.

King_Chief_Fan
03-11-2013, 12:51 PM
Explain to me how I am a thief, I'd love to hear that.

Not a single business in this country charges their labor hour based on the actual time spent. Not even ol' buddy Sauto can claim that with a straight face.

:banghead:

so, are you up front with the customer and tell them that it takes 45 minutes to fix but I am charging you for two hours?
Are you going to pay the plumber for two hours work when he does 1 hour worth? YOu would raise all kinds of hillbilly hell if a plumber did that to you.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 12:52 PM
Mechanics don't punch a clock in and out on a job. From my understanding, most repairs have a "set time" in the books for how long they should take. If the mechanics finish early, customers aren't catching a break on cost.

Right, but you don't get to bill for the book hours times 120% just because you feel like it.

King_Chief_Fan
03-11-2013, 12:52 PM
Mechanics don't punch a clock in and out on a job. From my understanding, most repairs have a "set time" in the books for how long they should take. If the mechanics finish early, customers aren't catching a break on cost. then the book should be updated and allow the business to get a few more suckers...er I mean customers in the repair shop

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 12:53 PM
Exoter: Let us know the name of your shop if you're so proud of your business practices.

I don't own or run a shop anymore, as you know full well before asking the question. My partner and I both sold out of that shop to take higher paying jobs at dealerships, spending way less hours for more money.

You knew that before you asked the question, but you believe that since I no longer own a business, that I am somehow discredited from discussion, right?

Or you attempt to use the fact that I no longer own the business, as a reason to attack me, slandering me along the way.

right? Thought so. As predictable as ever.

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 12:53 PM
in conclusion;

no one knows how business works, you know, other than exoter

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 12:54 PM
So, which am I? Because according to your post here, I'm an honest businessman, but a few posts back I am a crook.

The ****? You aren't honest. You fabricate hours out of whole cloth and bill your clients for time you never spent working on their vehicle.

DeezNutz
03-11-2013, 12:54 PM
Right, but you don't get to bill for the book hours times 120% just because you feel like it.

Yeah, that would be unethical. Rates shouldn't be set capriciously.

King_Chief_Fan
03-11-2013, 12:55 PM
in conclusion;

no one knows how business works, you know, other than exoter

we all know now!

notorious
03-11-2013, 12:56 PM
Even if both are working at the same shop? I would guess that the more experienced tech gets the more difficult jobs.

Just for argument's sake.

Hootie's mirror is a 2 hour job. A newer guy gets this assignment. Is there still the 2.4 hour quote or based on simplicity, does it get a 2 hour quote?

Say my transmission is an 8 hour job. An experienced guy gets that assignment. Does the labor hour quote get the added .4 based on having to pay that tech more?

I will let the mechanics answer the question about labor.


On flooring, I charge by the foot, just as a mechanic charges for "labor hour". I get the work done 2-3 times faster than a normal person because I have experience and great equipment.

A professional shouldn't get paid less because they are more efficient at doing the job.



Simply put, not all hours are equal.

Old Dog
03-11-2013, 12:56 PM
Explain to me how I am a thief, I'd love to hear that.
Not a single business in this country charges their labor hour based on the actual time spent. Not even ol' buddy Sauto can claim that with a straight face.

For fucks sake, why should I explain it. You explained it in the post I quoted below. You and I both know that most book times are not an accurate representation of how long it normally takes to do a job and to claim otherwise is asinine. Inflating an already inflated number is thievery.

As for the second part of your post, you're moving the goal posts.


Simply put, Labor Hour is what I'm going to charge you PER HOUR to fix your car. IT doesn't stop there though, because I'm probably going to pull up something like Mitchell or Alldata to find out how long it is going to take me to fix it, when you come in and ask for a quote, and I'm probably going to mark up the base labor hour by 10-25% on top of that.

Steron
03-11-2013, 12:56 PM
Please find the dude who ripped off your mirror and buy him a beer for me. This thread made my day.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 12:57 PM
:banghead:

so, are you up front with the customer and tell them that it takes 45 minutes to fix but I am charging you for two hours?
Are you going to pay the plumber for two hours work when he does 1 hour worth? YOu would raise all kinds of hillbilly hell if a plumber did that to you.

I would thank the plumber for doing a fast job, I wouldn't ask him to charge me less.

I show the customer exactly what they are paying for from every step of the job long before I even ask for a signature to grant me the permission to work and bill them.

I explain to them how long the job books for, that is it. I don't charge them less if it is done faster, and I don't charge them more if it takes longer. I charge them book.

Right, but you don't get to bill for the book hours times 120% just because you feel like it.

Yeah, you can. Book Hours are not uniform nor standard, they are not a universal guideline for getting work done. They are just a suggestion for how long a certified mechanic should take. Every place I've ever worked for, ever business I've started, has a book markup to maximize profits.

It is simply business and how it works.

King_Chief_Fan
03-11-2013, 12:58 PM
Please find the dude who ripped off your mirror and buy him a beer for me. This thread made my day.

LMAO:LOL:

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 12:58 PM
I don't own or run a shop anymore, as you know full well before asking the question. My partner and I both sold out of that shop to take higher paying jobs at dealerships, spending way less hours for more money.

You knew that before you asked the question, but you believe that since I no longer own a business, that I am somehow discredited from discussion, right?

Or you attempt to use the fact that I no longer own the business, as a reason to attack me, slandering me along the way.

right? Thought so. As predictable as ever.

What the **** makes you think I would know this? I don't think I've ever had a conversation with you before today. I recognize Sauto, but I don't recall ever having much interaction with him. You're making up some bizarre narrative much the same way you make up phony labor charges.

Do the world a favor and spare us your morality lessons. There may be honor among thieves, but in the end, there are no honorable thieves.

notorious
03-11-2013, 12:59 PM
All mechanics should just charge by the job instead of having a crazy "Labor Hours" system.

My local mechanic tells me how much the job will cost. He has it figured out. People get confused when they are charged 2.5 hours of labor when it only took 1.9 hours because the mechanic is a badass that is efficient.

King_Chief_Fan
03-11-2013, 12:59 PM
I would thank the plumber for doing a fast job, I wouldn't ask him to charge me less.

I show the customer exactly what they are paying for from every step of the job long before I even ask for a signature to grant me the permission to work and bill them.

I explain to them how long the job books for, that is it. I don't charge them less if it is done faster, and I don't charge them more if it takes longer. I charge them book.



Yeah, you can. Book Hours are not uniform nor standard, they are not a universal guideline for getting work done. They are just a suggestion for how long a certified mechanic should take. Every place I've ever worked for, ever business I've started, has a book markup to maximize profits.

It is simply business and how it works.

then I don't think I would call you a crook or a cheat...If I know what you are doing up front and I agree...then we have a contract.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 01:05 PM
The fuck? You aren't honest. You fabricate hours out of while cloth and bill your clients for time you never spent working on their vehicle.

I'm not honest? Am I not the one here telling you guys exactly how 99.9% of every business is ran except for apparently you butt buddy Sauto.

Listen, he works for a mom and pop shop in BFE, if he opened a shop in KC, he'd be out of business the next day. It doesn't matter how good his work is, or how friendly he is with customers, the sheer cost of business would drive him in the dirt, which is why most people will hire managers to oversee the business and make sure it is ran right. Simple minded folks like Sauto don't have the stomach for business, to crunch numbers night and day so that they can stay in business and provide their service to the public. I do, and I'm being honest and you are reaming me for it?

Sorry for educating the dumb-masses.

we all know now!

Which is why I decided to post at length about this, so people know exactly how this field of business is ran so they know what to expect.

I will let the mechanics answer the question about labor.


On flooring, I charge by the foot, just as a mechanic charges for "labor hour". I get the work done 2-3 times faster than a normal person because I have experience and great equipment.

A professional shouldn't get paid less because they are more efficient at doing the job.



Simply put, not all hours are equal.

This, somebody knows how business works. It seems like he's one of the few in this thread actively posting who knows the concept of "You get what you pay for" and knows that SPEED and turnaround factors into that.

For fucks sake, why should I explain it. You explained it in the post I quoted below. You and I both know that most book times are not an accurate representation of how long it normally takes to do a job and to claim otherwise is asinine. Inflating an already inflated number is thievery.

As for the second part of your post, you're moving the goal posts.

Who are you to say that the number is already inflated?

In all honesty, unless you are a top notch mechanic, you're going to run pretty close to that book time, if you do it right and follow every step. I've seen guys cut corners and half ass it and do it in half the time, but then again, I don't PAY them to half ass things.

My work is top notch, you get nothing but the best from me, and that includes my anal retentive ways of making sure everything is perfect. You're paying for the best service in KC, and you're going to pay for it. Not because I say so, but because my service is the best, my service comes with degrees and certificates, and because it comes with a work ethic second to none. It will never hurt me to have a mexican take a job away from me, lord knows I've always got work to do anyways.

The point is, every business marks up the book time so they can get 10% here or 10% there.

I've yet to hear you bitch to me about how we markup our parts too, because we make more in the markup of parts than we do in our book times.

Yet, I don't think you'll call that unethical.

Interesting how you argue one side of the coin here, and not the other.

Old Dog
03-11-2013, 01:06 PM
Mechanics don't punch a clock in and out on a job. From my understanding, most repairs have a "set time" in the books for how long they should take. If the mechanics finish early, customers aren't catching a break on cost.

Correct, but I don't believe anyone is arguing they should "catch a break".
What is being argued is that if I have a job that the book says should take 8 hours, is it ethical for Extorter to charge for 10. He may be able to get it done in 4, that's irrelevant. The book (be it Chilton's, AllData, or Mitchell) calls for 8.

So charging that extra 10-25% that he claimed is outright theft.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 01:06 PM
I would thank the plumber for doing a fast job, I wouldn't ask him to charge me less.

I show the customer exactly what they are paying for from every step of the job long before I even ask for a signature to grant me the permission to work and bill them.

I explain to them how long the job books for, that is it. I don't charge them less if it is done faster, and I don't charge them more if it takes longer. I charge them book.



Yeah, you can. Book Hours are not uniform nor standard, they are not a universal guideline for getting work done. They are just a suggestion for how long a certified mechanic should take. Every place I've ever worked for, ever business I've started, has a book markup to maximize profits.

It is simply business and how it works.

Give me a fucking break. You might be able to slip that shit past old ladies who are easy targets for snake oil salesmen, but I'm not some fucking rube. If you want to charge more, raise your hourly rates.

If you're so swift at twisting wrenches, you deserve to charge more per hour. What you don't get to do is bill customers for work that didn't get done.

I have a personal boxing coach. He charges me by the hour. If he trains me for two hours but bills me for 3.5 saying that he gets 3.5 hours worth of results in two hours, I'm going to tell him to go fuck himself. If he's so great, he can charge more per hour. He doesn't get to bill me for work he never did.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 01:11 PM
All mechanics should just charge by the job instead of having a crazy "Labor Hours" system.

My local mechanic tells me how much the job will cost. He has it figured out. People get confused when they are charged 2.5 hours of labor when it only took 1.9 hours because the mechanic is a badass that is efficient.

A lot of these jobs are paid for by insurance companies. I'd love to see him bill an insurance company for 2.4 hours on a job booked at 2 hours that can actually be done in 90 minutes.

He would never get away with that. Instead, he just rips off customers who don't know any better.

mikeyis4dcats.
03-11-2013, 01:11 PM
Right? I mean, the food costs like what? 3 dollars at the market? Why should I pay 20? I'll offer you 4 dollars for it since you spent 5 minutes to prepare it.

.

for the record, I'm a good tipper, and understand the need, was just trying to troll hootie

DeezNutz
03-11-2013, 01:11 PM
Correct, but I don't believe anyone is arguing they should "catch a break".
What is being argued is that if I have a job that the book says should take 8 hours, is it ethical for Extorter to charge for 10. He may be able to get it done in 4, that's irrelevant. The book (be it Chilton's, AllData, or Mitchell) calls for 8.

So charging that extra 10-25% that he claimed is outright theft.

Agreed.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 01:12 PM
What the fuck makes you think I would know this? I don't think I've ever had a conversation with you before today. I recognize Sauto, but I don't recall ever having much interaction with him. You're making up some bizarre narrative much the same way you make up phony labor charges.

Do the world a favor and spare the world your morality lessons. There may be honor among thieves, but in the end, there are no honorable thieves.

You claim ignorant now? We've argued in probably 3 or 4 threads Saul, you might want to fix that memory before you call an honest man providing a public service announcement, a crook. It looks bad for you.

All mechanics should just charge by the job instead of having a crazy "Labor Hours" system.

My local mechanic tells me how much the job will cost. He has it figured out. People get confused when they are charged 2.5 hours of labor when it only took 1.9 hours because the mechanic is a badass that is efficient.

In all honesty, 50% of the jobs done on a daily basis are flat rate, I'm charging you X dollars to do Y job. That figure, of course, is based loosely on book hour and labor rate, and then discounted slightly to a good looking number, so that I can inspect the car for any other faults so I can make more money fixing more stuff.

Now, when you come in with a Jetta that has a Dual Mass Flywheel that is prone to disintegrating and you want me to A. find the source of the problem and B. fix it, you're going to get book hour.

then I don't think I would call you a crook or a cheat...If I know what you are doing up front and I agree...then we have a contract.

This business is a contract business, I won't charge you more if I take longer, and I won't charge you more "just because".

I'll inspect the car and its issues and write up a ticket, show you the ticket, and explain to you everything about that ticket so you are comfortable with it before any signatures are done, before any cash is in my bank.

In all honesty, when I had my own shop, I went out of my way to explain exactly what it was that was wrong, why I was fixing, and made every effort I could to get across to my customers what was being done so they were comfortable with it.

Sure, it took a little bit more time, but I NEVER had a case of "WHy did it cost this much" or "Is my car ready yet" after or during the job. My customers dropped off their cars and were 110% confident it would be fixed on time, and that I'd bend over backwards to get it done so.

Old Dog
03-11-2013, 01:12 PM
The point is, every business marks up the book time so they can get 10% here or 10% there.


On this point I'm not going to beat around the bush or try and sugar coat anything.

You're a Goddamned liar.

notorious
03-11-2013, 01:15 PM
A lot of these jobs are paid for by insurance companies. I'd love to see him bill an insurance company for 2.4 hours on a job booked at 2 hours that can actually be done in 90 minutes.

He would never get away with that. Instead, he just rips off customers who don't know any better.

Like I said, it should just be a "By the job" bidding system, similar to windshield replacement.


That way you don't get fucked by a slow mechanic that runs up the clock.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 01:16 PM
You claim ignorant now? We've argued in probably 3 or 4 threads Saul, you might want to fix that memory before you call an honest man providing a public service announcement, a crook. It looks bad for you.



In all honesty, 50% of the jobs done on a daily basis are flat rate, I'm charging you X dollars to do Y job. That figure, of course, is based loosely on book hour and labor rate, and then discounted slightly to a good looking number, so that I can inspect the car for any other faults so I can make more money fixing more stuff.

Now, when you come in with a Jetta that has a Dual Mass Flywheel that is prone to disintegrating and you want me to A. find the source of the problem and B. fix it, you're going to get book hour.



This business is a contract business, I won't charge you more if I take longer, and I won't charge you more "just because".

I'll inspect the car and its issues and write up a ticket, show you the ticket, and explain to you everything about that ticket so you are comfortable with it before any signatures are done, before any cash is in my bank.

In all honesty, when I had my own shop, I went out of my way to explain exactly what it was that was wrong, why I was fixing, and made every effort I could to get across to my customers what was being done so they were comfortable with it.

Sure, it took a little bit more time, but I NEVER had a case of "WHy did it cost this much" or "Is my car ready yet" after or during the job. My customers dropped off their cars and were 110% confident it would be fixed on time, and that I'd bend over backwards to get it done so.

Why don't you show me one of those threads, you lying fucking thief?

notorious
03-11-2013, 01:17 PM
Well, I have learned a lot in this thread.

KCUnited
03-11-2013, 01:18 PM
Extorter

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 01:18 PM
Give me a fucking break. You might be able to slip that shit past old ladies who are easy targets for snake oil salesmen, but I'm not some fucking rube. If you want to charge more, raise your hourly rates.

If you're so swift at twisting wrenches, you deserve to charge more per hour. What you don't get to do is bill customers for work that didn't get done.

I have a personal boxing coach. He charges me by the hour. If he trains me for two hours but bills me for 3.5 saying that he gets 3.5 hours worth of results in two hours, I'm going to tell him to go fuck himself. If he's so great, he can charge more per hour. He doesn't get to bill me for work he never did.

That is a completely different ball game.

Because he charges you for the time, I charge you for the job.

According to you, Oil changes should cost 50+ for regular oil at Jiffy Lube because of the time it takes. Despite the fact that they charge PER JOB.

Book hours are a means to estimate how much you should charge for THE JOB, not for the hour.

Diagnostics is a different world. You charge down to the minute for diagnostics. If it takes me 1 hour and 14 minutes to find your issue through diagnostics, you get charged exactly that for it.

There are certain things in this business that go by the hour, there are certain things that go buy the job.

I don't understand why you can't wrap your head around this.

A lot of these jobs are paid for by insurance companies. I'd love to see him bill an insurance company for 2.4 hours on a job booked at 2 hours that can actually be done in 90 minutes.

He would never get away with that. Instead, he just rips off customers who don't know any better.

No, a lot of the jobs you got billed for were collision work which exclusively goes by how much time it takes them, however, they too inflate their book hour on regular mechanics work.

I know the owners of the top two collision repair centers in the KC metro on a first name basis, I know for a fact they do.

Which means 3 of us have just schooled you in your world of things that wouldn't get past an adjuster.

You call me a crook, but the biggest business of crooks is done by adjusters.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 01:20 PM
Like I said, it should just be a "By the job" bidding system, similar to windshield replacement.


That way you don't get ****ed by a slow mechanic that runs up the clock.

That's the whole point of those books. If you have a job that should take 3.5 hours, you get charged for 3.5 hours. If it gets done in 3.2 hours because they're fast or 4 because they're slow, the price stays the same...unless you're dealing with a crook. Then, the job takes 3.2 hours and you get charged for 4.5.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 01:20 PM
On this point I'm not going to beat around the bush or try and sugar coat anything.

You're a Goddamned liar.

How?

Why don't you show me one of those threads, you lying fucking thief?

Lets make a bet, then.

If I find a thread where you and I argued, your name on CP is forever changed to "lying fucking thief", if I can't find one, mine is changed forever to "lying fucking thief".

Do we have an agreement? Or do you back down knowing that I am not wrong, that I am an honest person, and I call it exactly how it is?

I'm not asking for an apology here, you are entitled to say what you want, I'm asking you how far you're willing to go to troll, or if you're being serious right now.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 01:21 PM
That's the whole point of those books. If you have a job that should take 3.5 hours, you get charged for 3.5 hours. If it gets done in 3.2 hours because they're fast or 4 because they're slow, the price stays the same...unless you're dealing with a crook. Then, the job takes 3.2 hours and you get charged for 4.5.

What you just agreed with, is exactly what I've been saying this entire time, only that EVERY BUSINESS IN THE GREATER KANSAS CITY METRO AREA adjusts their program to scale up the book time by a percentage.

Jesus Christ dude. READ!

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 01:25 PM
What you just agreed with, is exactly what I've been saying this entire time, only that EVERY BUSINESS IN THE GREATER KANSAS CITY METRO AREA adjusts their program to scale up the book time by a percentage.

Jesus Christ dude. READ!

Good Christ man, are you a fucking stroke victim? You've flat out stated that you bill for the book time plus 20%...you lying fucking thief.

notorious
03-11-2013, 01:26 PM
Hootie is going to be back in a minute to tell us he just fixed it himself.

seclark
03-11-2013, 01:26 PM
Hootie is going to be back in a minute to tell us he just fixed it himself.

gah! foiled!
sec

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 01:26 PM
I think an interesting question to ask Saul is this.

If Mitchell and Alldata, which have been in business far longer than I have, have the option to scale booktime +/- in their software, does that not make them crooks? Despite the fact that they are the industry leaders in approximated "book times".?

Steron
03-11-2013, 01:27 PM
I can't wait to see what his mechanic says about the mirror.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 01:27 PM
Good Christ man, are you a fucking stroke victim? You've flat out stated that you bill for the book time plus 20%...you lying fucking thief.

No, I've stated that my book time is increased by a percentage.

There is a difference.

notorious
03-11-2013, 01:27 PM
http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4937791654920487&pid=15.1

King_Chief_Fan
03-11-2013, 01:27 PM
Hootie is going to be back in a minute to tell us he just fixed it himself.

well, he did say he has some duct tape

notorious
03-11-2013, 01:28 PM
http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.5014001571595685&pid=15.1

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 01:29 PM
http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.5014001571595685&pid=15.1

That's exactly the job I see being done by this "mexicans".LMAO

Steron
03-11-2013, 01:30 PM
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSGbKRrcP6d3XUgb4Ev9CYU7jydXKqMccYxHRJdVEdtDwZLN41k

well, he did say he has some duct tape

notorious
03-11-2013, 01:30 PM
LMAO

WTF?

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4778100495614522&pid=15.1

King_Chief_Fan
03-11-2013, 01:32 PM
LMAO

WTF?

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4778100495614522&pid=15.1

LMAO:LOL: can't stop laughing oh man that cracks me up

Steron
03-11-2013, 01:32 PM
LMAO

WTF?

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4778100495614522&pid=15.1

The look on the monkey's face is priceless.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 01:33 PM
No, I've stated that my book time is increased by a percentage.

There is a difference.
That's exactly what I just posted you goddamned inbred.

chiefforlife
03-11-2013, 01:35 PM
In case anyone wants to know, an 02 Audi Allroad door mirror's official book time is 1 hour.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 01:48 PM
That's exactly what I just posted you goddamned inbred.

No, that isn't EXACTLY what you just posted, you imbecile.
In case anyone wants to know, an 02 Audi Allroad door mirror's official book time is 1 hour.

:thumb:

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 01:48 PM
I think an interesting question to ask Saul is this.

If Mitchell and Alldata, which have been in business far longer than I have, have the option to scale booktime +/- in their software, does that not make them crooks? Despite the fact that they are the industry leaders in approximated "book times".?

So your contention is that, because the software contains a manual override feature, it's ethical to falsify labor times?

Maybe some jobs take longer than the book lists because of extenuating circumstances. That doesn't mean that you should, as a matter of practice, use this feature in order to bill for hours that were never worked.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 01:51 PM
How?



Lets make a bet, then.

If I find a thread where you and I argued, your name on CP is forever changed to "lying ****ing thief", if I can't find one, mine is changed forever to "lying ****ing thief".

Do we have an agreement? Or do you back down knowing that I am not wrong, that I am an honest person, and I call it exactly how it is?

I'm not asking for an apology here, you are entitled to say what you want, I'm asking you how far you're willing to go to troll, or if you're being serious right now.

I've never claimed that we have never argued about anything. I said it hasn't happened enough for me to remember you. Hopefully I've argued with you every time we've interacted in the past.

I may not watch a lying thief brush his teeth every morning like you do, but I know one when I see one.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 01:53 PM
So your contention is that, because the software contains a manual override feature, it's ethical to falsify labor times?

Maybe some jobs take longer than the book lists because of extenuating circumstances. That doesn't mean that you should, as a matter of practice, use this feature in order to bill for hours that were never worked.

You still don't get it, do you?

Those book times are not an industry standard, they are an approximation for how long the service will take a skilled mechanic.

Those book times are what I'm going to show my customers in their quote. I will not charge them more, I will not charge them less.

However, those book times at every business in the metro area are going to have an adjusted scale of 20-30% on top of them.

It isn't illegal, it doesn't make them crooks.

What you also don't know in that software, is that I can manually add or remove book hours on top of that for additional hours applied to the job.

For instance, in Alldata, it tells me to add .5 hours for R&R. I don't actually have to add that, unless I am R&R'ing the part. It allows for a number of configurations that are at the DISCRETION of the business, nothing else.

There is nothing unethical for scaling 10% book hour because your mechanics will take longer than those at a dealership.

There is nothing unethical about scaling 20% book hour because your mechanics are thorough.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 01:57 PM
I've never claimed that we have never argued about anything. I said it hasn't happened enough for me to remember you. Hopefully I've argued with you every time we've interacted in the past.

I may not watch a lying thief brush his teeth every morning like you do, but I know one when I see one.

So you're backpedaling on your Schwinn?

Glad we got that taken care of.

You seem to know a thief when you see one, perhaps it is because it takes one to know one?

All banter aside, I am no thief, I am perhaps the most absolutely bluntly honest person you will EVER meet. I don't lie, I don't hide, I call it how it is.

And in business, that translates to repeat customers. The fact that I am so thorough that I'd walk them through every step MYSELF is me extending MY services to them.

As a business, my time is precious, and since I do the best job, I'm going to charge you for it, because you aren't just paying for the job to get done. You're paying for the warranty, the liability, and for my 110% top notch service. You certainly aren't paying me for my time to fix it.

If you want to pay for actual time spent wrenching on a car, go find a mobile mechanic on craigslist, because you get what you pay for, and with me, you got only satisfaction, I made it my job to provide that.

Pestilence
03-11-2013, 01:59 PM
So....say you hire me to build a website for you. I give you a quote that it will take me 8 hours of work to complete the job....but I do it in 5 hours. Should I charge you for 5 hours or 8?

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 02:00 PM
You still don't get it, do you?

Those book times are not an industry standard, they are an approximation for how long the service will take a skilled mechanic.

Those book times are what I'm going to show my customers in their quote. I will not charge them more, I will not charge them less.

However, those book times at every business in the metro area are going to have an adjusted scale of 20-30% on top of them.

It isn't illegal, it doesn't make them crooks.

What you also don't know in that software, is that I can manually add or remove book hours on top of that for additional hours applied to the job.

For instance, in Alldata, it tells me to add .5 hours for R&R. I don't actually have to add that, unless I am R&R'ing the part. It allows for a number of configurations that are at the DISCRETION of the business, nothing else.

There is nothing unethical for scaling 10% book hour because your mechanics will take longer than those at a dealership.

There is nothing unethical about scaling 20% book hour because your mechanics are thorough.

If your mechanics are so thorough that it takes them an extra hour to do the job, so be it. That's not even what you're claiming. You say that you spend less time on it that the books say yet you charge for more time. You're a thief.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 02:02 PM
So....say you hire me to build a website for you. I give you a quote that it will take me 8 hours of work to complete the job....but I do it in 5 hours. Should I charge you for 5 hours or 8?

If you quoted me 8 hours to build a website, and I hired you. I expect you to charge me for 8 hours. That is how contracts work. I have no lawful argument against it even if you told me it only took 5 hours, because I agreed to the contract. I'm not agreeing to the hours, I'm agreeing to the product, of which the price was X@8 hours.

Old Dog
03-11-2013, 02:02 PM
So....say you hire me to build a website for you. I give you a quote that it will take me 8 hours of work to complete the job....but I do it in 5 hours. Should I charge you for 5 hours or 8?

8, but not 10....which Extorter claimed with his additional 25%

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 02:03 PM
So....say you hire me to build a website for you. I give you a quote that it will take me 8 hours of work to complete the job....but I do it in 5 hours. Should I charge you for 5 hours or 8?

If you charge by the hour, 5. He would bill for 10 and congratulate himself on being thorough.

Pestilence
03-11-2013, 02:03 PM
If you quoted me 8 hours to build a website, and I hired you. I expect you to charge me for 8 hours. That is how contracts work. I have no lawful argument against it even if you told me it only took 5 hours, because I agreed to the contract. I'm not agreeing to the hours, I'm agreeing to the product, of which the price was X@8 hours.

Well what if I knew that it would only take me 7 hours max.....but I quoted you 8. Is that still wrong?

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 02:04 PM
If your mechanics are so thorough that it takes them an extra hour to do the job, so be it. That's not even what you're claiming. You say that you spend less time on it that the books say yet you charge for more time. You're a thief.

If the job takes 10 hours, which isn't often heard of, yes, I would charge an extra hour.

It doesn't make me a thief if I charged them 11 and it only took me 8, if they agreed on the 11 before I even turned a wrench on the car. It just means my mechanics did good, fast work.

However, if I quoted them 11 hours, took 8, and later upped the BILL to 13 hours, that would make me a thief.

Since I do not raise or lower the quote, it isn't thievery. Often it'll take longer than the quote in "real time" due to how thorough they are. I don't charge my customers on the back end for my thorough work, I do that on the front end, so they don't pay MORE than expected.

You really don't grasp the idea of business.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 02:07 PM
8, but not 10....which Extorter claimed with his additional 25%

Different business, troll.
If you charge by the hour, 5. He would bill for 10 and congratulate himself on being thorough.

I would bill for whatever was quoted and signed into contract. No more, no less.

Well what if I knew that it would only take me 7 hours max.....but I quoted you 8. Is that still wrong?

That is up for you to do, in automotive repair, there is no certainty that it'll take under, equal to, or over the book rate.

The book rate is just an "idea" of how long it could take. Some mechanics are very fast, some take twice as long. I only adjust the book hour so that I know the job gets done right, and not cut corners due to speed.

I also don't adjust the book on a per customer basis. It is done when the software is setup, and never touched again after that.

Pestilence
03-11-2013, 02:11 PM
So if you book for 8.....but your mechanic is slow and takes 12......the customer doesn't get charged those extra 4 hours.....correct?

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 02:11 PM
Simply put, Labor Hour is what I'm going to charge you PER HOUR to fix your car. IT doesn't stop there though, because I'm probably going to pull up something like Mitchell or Alldata to find out how long it is going to take me to fix it, when you come in and ask for a quote, and I'm probably going to mark up the base labor hour by 10-25% on top of that.

Good Christ man, are you a ****ing stroke victim? You've flat out stated that you bill for the book time plus 20%...you lying ****ing thief.

No, that isn't EXACTLY what you just posted, you imbecile.


:thumb:
Wierd...I guess it can be as high as 25%. If they're lucky, you give them a discount and only rip them off by billing them for 10% more time than it actually took.

mikeyis4dcats.
03-11-2013, 02:13 PM
So your contention is that, because the software contains a manual override feature, it's ethical to falsify labor times?

Maybe some jobs take longer than the book lists because of extenuating circumstances. That doesn't mean that you should, as a matter of practice, use this feature in order to bill for hours that were never worked.

unless I'm mistaked the book is not binding, only a guide. There is nothing unethical IMHO about padding book times. If history has shown a given shop cannot complete the work in the "book time" then they need to bill whatever the actual time is.

mikeyis4dcats.
03-11-2013, 02:14 PM
So....say you hire me to build a website for you. I give you a quote that it will take me 8 hours of work to complete the job....but I do it in 5 hours. Should I charge you for 5 hours or 8?

depends on how it was quote. If it was T&M, 5. If it was a lump sum or NTE, 8.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 02:16 PM
Different business, troll.


I would bill for whatever was quoted and signed into contract. No more, no less.



That is up for you to do, in automotive repair, there is no certainty that it'll take under, equal to, or over the book rate.

The book rate is just an "idea" of how long it could take. Some mechanics are very fast, some take twice as long. I only adjust the book hour so that I know the job gets done right, and not cut corners due to speed.

I also don't adjust the book on a per customer basis. It is done when the software is setup, and never touched again after that.

What a great guy. All you're really doing is checking a book to see how long a job should take (knowing full well that it won't even take you as long as the book estimates), upping the number of hours by 10-25%, billing the customer accordingly, and calling yourself thorough.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 02:16 PM
So if you book for 8.....but your mechanic is slow and takes 12......the customer doesn't get charged those extra 4 hours.....correct?

You are correct, you aren't paying for my slow mechanic, I am.

Wierd...I guess it can be as high as 25%. If they're lucky, you give them a discount and only rip them off by billing them for 10% more time than it actually took.

That isn't how it works, but you sure are trying hard to make me look like a bad guy here.

This is how it works.

You walk in, hand me the keys, My mechanic and I look at the car, noting what needs to get fixed.

I write up a quote.
I show you the quote.
You either agree or disagree with the quote.
If you agree, you sign the quote, I fix the car, you pay when it is done.
If you disagree, we figure out why you disagree (Probably because my quote has a service on there you don't feel you need to do just yet, like an oil change or something)
I write up a new quote, you agree, you sign, I fix it, you pay when it is done.

That is it. I don't charge you more when it is done, I don't charge you less when it is done. You signed a contract for me to perform a service. The hours are an estimate, the cost is based on my rate and the estimated time to accomplish the job.

That's it.

That is how it works in any lawfully established automotive repair shop, or shall I say, how it is SUPPOSED to work.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 02:17 PM
unless I'm mistaked the book is not binding, only a guide. There is nothing unethical IMHO about padding book times. If history has shown a given shop cannot complete the work in the "book time" then they need to bill whatever the actual time is.

I totally agree. That's not what he's doing, though. If the book says 3 hours, he's doing it in 2.5 hours and billing the customer for 3.5 hours.

mikeyis4dcats.
03-11-2013, 02:19 PM
What a great guy. All you're really doing is checking a book to see how long a job should take (knowing full well that it won't even take you as long as the book estimates), upping the number of hours by 10-25%, billing the customer accordingly, and calling yourself thorough.

I don't think you understand the process.

Similarly in construction, there are Cost Books which give contractors industry averages for performing various types of work. Some bid straight off them, some adjust, and some (like me) only use them when dealing with something we don't have a grasp on.

If the cost book tells me it will take 43 hours to install wood trim in a fancy conference room, and it only takes me 30, that's my windfall. It helps even out the next job when it takes us 70 hours instead of 43.

And again, as I understand it, he is using the "book" to quote repairs, then billing what he quoted. Nothing wrong with that.

mikeyis4dcats.
03-11-2013, 02:20 PM
I totally agree. That's not what he's doing, though. If the book says 3 hours, he's doing it in 2.5 hours and billing the customer for 3.5 hours.

So? The book is simply industry averages. There is NOTHING requiring a mechanic to bill "by the book" or even use "the book" at all.

He's telling the customer 3.5 hrs and billing 3.5 hrs.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 02:21 PM
You are correct, you aren't paying for my slow mechanic, I am.



That isn't how it works, but you sure are trying hard to make me look like a bad guy here.

This is how it works.

You walk in, hand me the keys, My mechanic and I look at the car, noting what needs to get fixed.

I write up a quote.
I show you the quote.
You either agree or disagree with the quote.
If you agree, you sign the quote, I fix the car, you pay when it is done.
If you disagree, we figure out why you disagree (Probably because my quote has a service on there you don't feel you need to do just yet, like an oil change or something)
I write up a new quote, you agree, you sign, I fix it, you pay when it is done.

That is it. I don't charge you more when it is done, I don't charge you less when it is done. You signed a contract for me to perform a service. The hours are an estimate, the cost is based on my rate and the estimated time to accomplish the job.

That's it.

That is how it works in any lawfully established automotive repair shop, or shall I say, how it is SUPPOSED to work.

Right. Buyer beware.

You're just taking advantage of the fact that the old lady walking in the door doesn't know how long a job actually takes.

Why don't you try telling your next customer, "according to the professional estimating tool, this job should take three hours. I'm only going to spend two and a half hours working on it, but I'm going to bill you for three and a half hours."

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 02:22 PM
So? The book is simply industry averages. There is NOTHING requiring a mechanic to bill "by the book" or even use "the book" at all.

He's telling the customer 3.5 hrs and billing 3.5 hrs.

He's LYING to the customer when he bills them for more work than be did.

Pestilence
03-11-2013, 02:22 PM
Right. Buyer beware.

You're just taking advantage of the fact that the old lady walking in the door doesn't know how long a job actually takes.

Why don't you try telling your next customer, "according to the professional estimating tool, this job should take three hours. I'm only going to spend two and a half hours working on it, but I'm going to bill you for three and a half hours."

This.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 02:23 PM
unless I'm mistaked the book is not binding, only a guide. There is nothing unethical IMHO about padding book times. If history has shown a given shop cannot complete the work in the "book time" then they need to bill whatever the actual time is.

You are not mistaken, book times are just rough guides on how long it should take a mechanic without breaks, without other cars, to finish the job. I adjust it by 10% to account for phone calls, working on multiple cars at a time, and making sure the work is done right, so that my mechanics don't have to rush.

I don't bill you more or less than what our contract states.

What a great guy. All you're really doing is checking a book to see how long a job should take (knowing full well that it won't even take you as long as the book estimates), upping the number of hours by 10-25%, billing the customer accordingly, and calling yourself thorough.

No, that is not how it works at all.

When I pull up the book and add all of the services in it, it already has the scaling factor included.

More often than not, it takes every bit of the book time, if not more, to complete the task, and that is almost always due to my mechanics being thorough, making sure they don't rush, triple check their work, and even do a "check out" report that most shops do not do.

our "Check out" report is simply an inspect of the vehicle inside and out, to make sure we did or did not damage the vehicle in any way while we were working on it. We also do a "check in" report that most shops do not do, because it takes time.

I am incredibly thorough, and I like to cover my ass. In all honesty, when all is said and done, you might pay me for 2.2 hours on an estimated 2 hour job, but I probably had a mechanic working 3.5 hours on your vehicle.

mikeyis4dcats.
03-11-2013, 02:23 PM
He's LYING to the customer.

where?

Pestilence
03-11-2013, 02:24 PM
How big is your shop?

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 02:28 PM
I'd love to be your property management company. You'd get a bill for a month and a quarter's worth of rent every month. I'd tell you it's because it's such a prime location.

When you complained that the location should have already been factored into the rent, I'd explain that I was just being thorough.

mikeyis4dcats.
03-11-2013, 02:30 PM
I'd love to be your property management company. You'd get a bill for a month and a quarter's worth of rent every month. I'd tell you it's because it's such a prime location.

When you complained that the location should have already been factored into the rent, I'd explain that I was just being thorough.

that makes zero sense.

you have yet to show where he has billed a customer MORE than what they were quoted.

you usually seem to have a pretty good head on your shoulders, but you're being obtuse here or just ignorant.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 02:31 PM
I totally agree. That's not what he's doing, though. If the book says 3 hours, he's doing it in 2.5 hours and billing the customer for 3.5 hours.

Says who?

The book tells me it is 2 hours, you get charged 2 hours. I don't SEE the scaling factor there, and neither do you. I don't add anything else in, it is in the software to add 10% there, and that 10% accounts for our thorough work and all of the other services we offer that NOBODY else offers.

I don't think you understand the process.

Similarly in construction, there are Cost Books which give contractors industry averages for performing various types of work. Some bid straight off them, some adjust, and some (like me) only use them when dealing with something we don't have a grasp on.

If the cost book tells me it will take 43 hours to install wood trim in a fancy conference room, and it only takes me 30, that's my windfall. It helps even out the next job when it takes us 70 hours instead of 43.

And again, as I understand it, he is using the "book" to quote repairs, then billing what he quoted. Nothing wrong with that.

Exactly, and no, he doesn't get the idea of business here, nor does he understand that in every field of business where this is applicable, it is done the EXACT same way.

So? The book is simply industry averages. There is NOTHING requiring a mechanic to bill "by the book" or even use "the book" at all.

He's telling the customer 3.5 hrs and billing 3.5 hrs.

Bingo.

Right. Buyer beware.

You're just taking advantage of the fact that the old lady walking in the door doesn't know how long a job actually takes.

Why don't you try telling your next customer, "according to the professional estimating tool, this job should take three hours. I'm only going to spend two and a half hours working on it, but I'm going to bill you for three and a half hours."

You really do not get it at all.

When that lady comes in and tells me she needs her intake manifold gaskets changed, I quote her for the part, the time it takes to do the job, the additional time to R&R the gasket, as the book shows it, any fluids I need, and any disposal.

I show this to her, she signs off on it, I do the repair, she pays me when it is done.

It doesn't matter if you are 5, 55, man, or woman, the quote is going to be the same. I don't profile who comes in, and the software doesn't allow me to add hours or services to the bill without them getting shown, You literally do NOT understand the process here.

This is what it will look like

-Intake Manifold Gasket 34.99
--Intake Manifold Gasket@2.2 Hours
-Disposal @2.99

Subtotal= 213.98
+ Tax @ 8.65%
Total= 232.49

If I add anything else on there, it shows it on the quote right underneath that disposal. You literally CANNOT simply add hours to a quote without seeing what they are for. I can't scale individual hours either. If it says 3.2 hours for a manifold, and then .7 hours for a gasket, I can't make them bigger or smaller, they are scaled wholly across the book and do not allow for individual scaling.
He's LYING to the customer.

No I'm not.

where?

This guy has common sense.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 02:34 PM
that makes zero sense.

you have yet to show where he has billed a customer MORE than what they were quoted.

you usually seem to have a pretty good head on your shoulders, but you're being obtuse here or just ignorant.

Thank you, this is exactly what I"m getting at.

I'm trying to be as transparent as I can possibly be here, without just telling him to fuck off, but I'd rather everyone KNOW how the industry works, than insult a mechanic for 20 bucks.

Know what I mean.

He's under the idea that I'm quoting grandma 8.5 hours for an intake manifold gasket that will take 3 hours, but doesn't understand that everything is done on the computer and every part and service is itemized there for everything that I charge, that I cannot individually scale a task's hours, or add in a charge that doesn't get printed on the paper.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 02:38 PM
that makes zero sense.

you have yet to show where he has billed a customer MORE than what they were quoted.

you usually seem to have a pretty good head on your shoulders, but you're being obtuse here or just ignorant.

He's not charging for anything not on the quote, but he is putting things on the quote that aren't actually happening. He is intentionally quoting the job to take longer than it will and should require.

He can put blinker fluid and muffler bearings in the quote in hopes that the customer won't know any better, and it's the same thing.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 02:39 PM
He's not charging for anything not on the quote, but he is putting things on the quote that aren't actually happening. He is intentionally quoting the job to take longer than it will and should require.

He can put blinker fluid and muffler bearings in the quote in hopes that the customer won't know any better, and it's the same thing.

What am I putting in the quote that isn't actually happening? Please explain that.

Also, believe it or not, some cars have muffler bearings.

Frosty
03-11-2013, 02:39 PM
The thing that is annoying about this to me is that there are mechanics out there that treat "the book" like gospel and now I find out that the numbers are likely pulled out of their ass.

For example, when I had my '05 Silverado, I had an issue with the intermediate steering shaft clunking. GM used a shitty part in the '99 - '06 Pickups that would run dry of grease and make clunking noises at low speed turns. It's a known issue and GM put out an updated replacement part.

Anyway, I took it to the local dealer and they insisted that they had to charge me for labor and that "the book" said 2 hours. So it was around $150 labor plus parts to fix GMs screw-up.

I ended up hiring a Mexican to do it.

Actually, I didn't. I bought a replacement shaft from NAPA and did it myself. Despite being an all-thumbs mechanic, I did it in less than a half hour. I don't mind paying a fair price and I care more for the bottom line price than the number of hours or whatever, but hiding behind the book to justify exorbitant prices is uncool.

Pestilence
03-11-2013, 02:41 PM
If I quote someone 8 hours to work on a website....it's because worst case scenario....it should only take me 8 hours to do it. If I complete it in 5 hours.....I charge them 5 hours because that's the ACTUAL amount of time that it took me to do it.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 02:42 PM
What am I putting in the quote that isn't actually happening? Please explain that.

Also, believe it or not, some cars have muffler bearings.

You are charging for hours of labor that weren't performed and shouldn't have been needed knowing fully well that you weren't going to spend that long on the job.

Saul Good
03-11-2013, 02:43 PM
If I quote someone 8 hours to work on a website....it's because worst case scenario....it should only take me 8 hours to do it. If I complete it in 5 hours.....I charge them 5 hours because that's the ACTUAL amount of time that it took me to do it.

You have no idea how a businesses works.

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 02:43 PM
The thing that is annoying about this to me is that there are mechanics out there that treat "the book" like gospel and now I find out that the numbers are likely pulled out of their ass.

For example, when I had my '05 Silverado, I had an issue with the intermediate steering shaft clunking. GM used a shitty part in the '99 - '06 Pickups that would run dry of grease and make clunking noises at low speed turns. It's a known issue and GM put out an updated replacement part.

Anyway, I took it to the local dealer and they insisted that they had to charge me for labor and that "the book" said 2 hours. So it was around $150 labor plus parts to fix GMs screw-up.

I ended up hiring a Mexican to do it.

Actually, I didn't. I bought a replacement shaft from NAPA and did it myself. Despite being an all-thumbs mechanic, I did it in less than a half hour. I don't mind paying a fair price and I care more for the bottom line price than the number of hours or whatever, but hiding behind the book to justify exorbitant prices is uncool.

And those prices are exorbitantly high because they have to run a business. At 110 dollars per labor hour, they are going to make a killing, but it costs them money to run that business with all of the people they have to pay.

Despite that, there are people out there that want their cars worked on ONLY by trained professionals backed by insurance and a warranty, that is what you pay for at a dealership.

Smaller ships like my previous two shops, can give you that same quality of work, insurance, and warranty, at about 60% of the cost, by lowering my labor rate and not scaling my book time nearly as much as a dealership does. Not to mention, I have the ability to "haggle" my own prices down to make a sale if I need to, that doesn't happen at the dealership.


If I told you what the dealership marks its parts costs up by, and how much they inflate their book numbers, you guys would shit yourselves.

Pestilence
03-11-2013, 02:44 PM
So as a shop owner....would you be pissed if I sat there and timed you working on my car?

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 02:45 PM
No I wouldn't because this is America and everyone wants to make more money while doing less work...

Which is why you hire Mexicans

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 02:46 PM
If I quote someone 8 hours to work on a website....it's because worst case scenario....it should only take me 8 hours to do it. If I complete it in 5 hours.....I charge them 5 hours because that's the ACTUAL amount of time that it took me to do it.

There is a huge difference between your business and mine there, but that being said, if they signed off on a contract for 8 hours, you have every right to charge for 8 hours. If you feel you need to charge only 5, go for it. In my world, more often than not, it takes longer than the quote to get the job done right, and my mechanics probably spend twice that amount actually working on the car, not even just the job.

You are charging for hours of labor that weren't performed and shouldn't have been needed knowing fully well that you weren't going to spend that long on the job.

No I'm not.

Bugeater
03-11-2013, 02:47 PM
This thread. :facepalm:

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 02:47 PM
So as a shop owner....would you be pissed if I sat there and timed you working on my car?

Not at all, we had complimentary coffee, TV, and some nice, comfy chairs for you to sit in while you waited.

I encourage you to time us on our job.:thumb:

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 02:49 PM
This post serves as an official death threat to the next poster in this thread after me.

Bugeater
03-11-2013, 02:49 PM
Me!

Exoter175
03-11-2013, 02:50 PM
This post serves as an official death threat to the next poster in this thread after me.

You might not want to do that with Mechanics afoot.

Frosty
03-11-2013, 02:50 PM
Smaller ships like my previous two shops, can give you that same quality of work, insurance, and warranty, at about 60% of the cost, by lowering my labor rate and not scaling my book time nearly as much as a dealership does. Not to mention, I have the ability to "haggle" my own prices down to make a sale if I need to, that doesn't happen at the dealership.

I almost never have non-warranty work done at a dealer. I only went there because I thought GM might have a hidden warranty on it because it was a known problem. Also, when I bought my (new) pickup from them, I was told one of the reasons I should "buy local" (i.e. from them) was because they took care of their customers once the warranty was done. LMAO

If they charged more reasonable prices, maybe they would get more business and make more money to pay all of those expenses. However, maybe they don't want non-warranty work. Dunno.

unnecessary drama
03-11-2013, 02:51 PM
Me!

Hope you enjoy urine as a last meal.