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Donger
04-25-2013, 10:46 AM
Ick...

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/25/world/meast/syria-civil-war/index.html

(CNN) -- (CNN) -- U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel announced Thursday that the United States has evidence that chemical weapons have been used in Syria.

This comes a couple of days after an Israeli intelligence official said Damascus was using weapons banned under international law against its own people in the country's civil war. Syria has said rebels have used chemical weapons.

U.S. President Barack Obama has said the Syrian government's use of chemical weapons against its own people in the country would be a "game changer."

Donger
04-25-2013, 10:48 AM
More...

ABU DHABI (Reuters) - U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel on Thursday said the U.S. intelligence community believes the Syrian government has used sarin gas on a small scale against rebels trying to overthrow the government of Bashar al-Assad.

"This morning the White House delivered a letter to several members of Congress on the topic of chemical weapons use in Syria. The letter ... states that the U.S. intelligence community assesses with some degree of varying confidence that the Syrian regime has used chemical weapons on a small scale in Syria," Hagel told reporters traveling with him. He said it was sarin gas.

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2013, 10:55 AM
Who cares?

mikey23545
04-25-2013, 11:02 AM
Syria
Map of Syria, showing its location west of Iraq

Former Iraqi general Georges Sada claimed that in late 2002, Saddam had ordered all of his stockpiles to be moved to Syria. He appeared on Fox News' Hannity & Colmes in January 2006 to discuss his book, Saddam's Secrets: How an Iraqi General Defied and Survived Saddam Hussein. Anticipating the arrival of weapon inspectors on November 1, Sada said Saddam took advantage of the June 4 Zeyzoun Dam disaster in Syria by forming an "air bridge", loading them onto cargo aircraft and flying them out of the country.

They were moved by air and by ground, 56 sorties by jumbo, 747, and 27 were moved, after they were converted to cargo aircraft, they were moved to Syria.[15]

In January 2004, Nizar Nayuf, a Syrian journalist who moved to Western Europe, said in a letter to the Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf that he knows the three sites where Iraq's weapons of mass destruction are kept inside Syria. According to Nayuf's witness, described as a senior source inside Syrian military intelligence he had known for two years,[16] Iraq's WMD are in tunnels dug under the town of al-Baida near the city of Hama in northern Syria, in the village of Tal Snan, north of the town of Salamija, where there is a big Syrian air force camp, and in the city of Sjinsjar on the Syrian border with the Lebanon, south of Homs city. Nayouf also wrote that the transfer of Iraqi WMD to Syria was organized by the commanders of Saddam Hussein's Iraqi Republican Guard, including General Shalish, with the help of Assef Shawkat, Bashar Assad's cousin. Shoakat is the CEO of Bhaha, an import/export company owned by the Assad family.[17] U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice responded to this accusation by saying "I don't think we are at the point that we can make a judgment on this issue. There hasn't been any hard evidence that such a thing happened. But obviously we're going to follow up every lead, and it would be a serious problem if that, in fact, did happen."[16]

Donger
04-25-2013, 11:05 AM
Who cares?

Would you have cared if you were alive during WWII and knew that the NAZIs were gassing their own people (and others)?

blaise
04-25-2013, 11:08 AM
Feather in Obama's cap.

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2013, 11:09 AM
Only took 5 posts to reach Godwins Law.


Impressive.

loochy
04-25-2013, 11:16 AM
meh

cops use tear gas on our own people here

i used gas against my wife last night (if you know what i mean)

Donger
04-25-2013, 11:17 AM
Only took 5 posts to reach Godwins Law.


Impressive.

Not really on that scale, obviously. But, I realize that the Paul fans don't give a crap anyway.

durtyrute
04-25-2013, 11:54 AM
So I take it we want to bomb Syria now? How can a country constantly be involved in a war. Who wakes up and says "I want to bomb a country today" This is like a sick and twisted movie.

Donger
04-25-2013, 12:49 PM
So I take it we want to bomb Syria now? How can a country constantly be involved in a war. Who wakes up and says "I want to bomb a country today" This is like a sick and twisted movie.

Want to? No, I don't think most people want to.

Dayze
04-25-2013, 12:52 PM
Syria here we come!!!

Chocolate Hog
04-25-2013, 12:53 PM
Not really on that scale, obviously. But, I realize that the Paul fans don't give a crap anyway.

No dumbass the two situations are nothing alike. When did the Jews start the civil war in Germany?

Again you used Godwins law because you are pathetic and don't understand what is going on in Syria.

Donger
04-25-2013, 12:57 PM
No dumbass the two situations are nothing alike. When did the Jews start the civil war in Germany?

Again you used Godwins law because you are pathetic and don't understand what is going on in Syria.

You really shouldn't get so hung up on the Godwin's law thing. Feel free to use Iraq's use of chemical weapons on the Kurds instead if it makes you feel better, okay?

Easy 6
04-26-2013, 10:55 AM
I'm not real sure that i give two turds, if we spend a bunch of money going in there to stop it, is it going to buy us any credit or prestige with those people?... i strongly doubt it, they'll hate us all the same when its over.

Why cant all of these filthy rich arab nations foot the bill and provide the blood to clean up their own back yard?

I say, ****'em.

WilliamTheIrish
04-26-2013, 11:16 AM
Would you have cared if you were alive during WWII and knew that the NAZIs were gassing their own people (and others)?

Yes.

But this? No.

Lightrise
04-26-2013, 12:46 PM
I don't know how much I trust a country that relies on bulldozers to conduct foreign policy.

WhawhaWhat
04-26-2013, 01:12 PM
U.S. President Barack Obama has said the Syrian government's use of chemical weapons against its own people in the country would be a "game changer."

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/53/Team_america_poster_300px.jpg/215px-Team_america_poster_300px.jpg

Donger
06-13-2013, 05:07 PM
Washington (CNN) -- Syria has crossed a 'red line' with its use of chemical weapons, including the nerve agent sarin gas, against rebels, the White House said Thursday.

The acknowledgement is the first time President Barack Obama's administration has definitively said what it has long suspected -- that President Bashar al-Assad's forces have used chemical weapons in the ongoing civil war.

"The intelligence community estimates that 100 to 150 people have died from detected chemical weapons attacks in Syria to date; however, casualty data is likely incomplete," Ben Rhodes, the deputy national security adviser, said in a statement released by the White House.

"While the lethality of these attacks make up only a small portion of the catastrophic loss of life in Syria, which now stands at more than 90,000 deaths, the use of chemical weapons violates international norms and crosses clear red lines that have existed within the international community for decades," Rhodes added.

The administration also appeared to indicate that it was stepping up its support of the rebels, who have been calling for the United States and others provide arms need to battle al-Assad's forces.

"Put simply, the Assad regime should know that its actions have led us to increase the scope and scale of assistance that we provide to the opposition, including direct support to the (rebel Supreme Military Council). These efforts will increase going forward," Rhodes' statement said.

The administration also believes that al-Assad's government maintains control of the chemical weapons, and that there is "no reliable, corroborated reporting to indicate that the opposition in Syria has acquired or used chemical weapons."

Earlier this year, the United States said its intelligence analysts had concluded "with varying degrees of confidence" that chemical weapons had been used in the Syrian civil war. But Obama said then "intelligence assessments alone are not sufficient."

As early as last week, France's foreign minister said sarin gas had been used several times in the Syrian civil war, citing results from test samples in France's possession.

In early May, the head of the U.N. Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Syria said that evidence points to the use of sarin by Syrian rebel forces. But the commission later issued a news release saying it "has not reached conclusive findings as to the use of chemical weapons in Syria by any parties to the conflict."

In April, the head of the Israeli military's intelligence research said the Syrian government is using chemical weapons against rebel forces.

stonedstooge
06-13-2013, 05:20 PM
Too bad they all can't just gas each other and be done with it

Aries Walker
06-13-2013, 05:21 PM
The problem is that now we have a choice: Go to war against a Muslim Arab nation - again - or give the whole world one more reason why it doesn't mean a whole lot when we threaten someone not to cross a red line.

mlyonsd
06-13-2013, 05:26 PM
I wonder if this revelation had anything to do with Bubba Bill Clinton calling Obama out on Syria.

Donger
06-13-2013, 05:26 PM
The problem is that now we have a choice: Go to war against a Muslim Arab nation - again - or give the whole world one more reason why it doesn't mean a whole lot when we threaten someone not to cross a red line.

I think it's pretty clear that Obama is going to take another option: to provide arms to the rebels, and probably SF "advisers" if they aren't already there.

Aries Walker
06-13-2013, 05:27 PM
Ah. Modern-day lend/lease. Of course.

BucEyedPea
06-13-2013, 05:59 PM
Another Bullshit link by our resident Tory.

GloucesterChief
06-13-2013, 06:03 PM
Getting involved in Syria will bring us nothing but trouble. See: Egypt, Libya, Iran, and Lebanon.

Dayze
06-13-2013, 06:08 PM
Ahh. I love a good war / Exxon

BucEyedPea
06-13-2013, 06:16 PM
June 13, 2013
Bloodthirsty Neocons are Drooling and Salivating . . .
Posted by Thomas DiLorenzo

. . . today because the CIA claims that the Syrian government is doing a Saddam Hussein, i.e., "using chemical weapons on their own people." King Obama announced that that would be the line in the sand -- if they used chemical weapons on their own people -- and so the neocon talking heads are all screaming their heads off in indignation over the fact that the U.S. government has not yet gone to war with Syria. (So far, not one of them has volunteered for the U.S. military, however).

Sickening line of the night: The Bimbo of the Day on Faux News announced that "He [Obama] is hearing that voice to intervene for humanitarian reasons."

The creepy and odious Charles Krauthammer called it Obama's "Hamlet moment." If he doesn't go to war, said Faux News' Dr. Strangelove, then it will be just like Shakespeare's Hamlet "and you know what happens with Hamlet, everyone dies."

The Party Line on Faux News is that "our allies" in the Middle East are demanding war, but "we" are just sitting here doing nothing. Allies? Plural? Who are these allies?

Great. Now Syrians will have a reason to commit terrorist acts against Americans.



DiLorenzo (http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/139575.html)

BucEyedPea
06-13-2013, 06:16 PM
Getting involved in Syria will bring us nothing but trouble. See: Egypt, Libya, Iran, and Lebanon.

Yup!

Donger
06-13-2013, 06:18 PM
Another Bullshit link by our resident Tory.

What's bullshit about it? It's from CNN.

Ace Gunner
06-13-2013, 08:31 PM
So I take it we want to bomb Syria now? How can a country constantly be involved in a war. Who wakes up and says "I want to bomb a country today" This is like a sick and twisted movie.

democracy. let's bring them democracy /nanny

Ace Gunner
06-13-2013, 08:33 PM
"estimates that 100 to 150 people have died"

yep. we need to spend billion$ on this. estimate.

petegz28
06-13-2013, 08:35 PM
I thought Obama said they crossed a line like, I don't know, a month ago or something?

Brock
06-13-2013, 08:41 PM
Not really on that scale, obviously. But, I realize that the Paul fans don't give a crap anyway.

Non-paul fans don't either.

KILLER_CLOWN
06-13-2013, 09:53 PM
I'm sure Obama can show them how it's really done, you don't use gas you use drone strikes against your own people after announcing they will have a problem if they don't fully trust you.

petegz28
06-13-2013, 09:57 PM
so we are going to give military support to the Rebels that have said they are all about Al-Qaeda????

That's a hell of a thing there.

KILLER_CLOWN
06-13-2013, 09:59 PM
so we are going to give military support to the Rebels that have said they are all about Al-Qaeda????

That's a hell of a thing there.

It's too late even Mccain stated we were helping them out long ago.

Dayze
06-13-2013, 10:06 PM
"estimates that 100 to 150 people have died"

yep. we need to spend billion$ on this. estimate.

No shit there .

Iowanian
06-13-2013, 11:07 PM
Syrians were the same people who participated in jihad against American troops in Iraq and the same ones who gave those migrating assholes a free pass to go attack and kill our American soldiers.

The rebels are as much shitbricks as those currently in charge.

Syria is a suck hole we need to stay out of.....and frankly, I don't give a thimble full of rat shit about Syria or Syrians.

BucEyedPea
06-13-2013, 11:34 PM
What's bullshit about it? It's from CNN.

I rest my case. :LOL:

HonestChieffan
06-14-2013, 06:35 AM
Syrians were the same people who participated in jihad against American troops in Iraq and the same ones who gave those migrating assholes a free pass to go attack and kill our American soldiers.

The rebels are as much shitbricks as those currently in charge.

Syria is a suck hole we need to stay out of.....and frankly, I don't give a thimble full of rat shit about Syria or Syrians.


When Obama brings a couple hundred thousand of the to live in the US he may put a busload of them in Iowa because you said that.

BucEyedPea
06-14-2013, 10:43 AM
This has more to do with the Syrian govt gaining a few victories than truth. Our dear leaders can't have that happen, so they make a false report to justify our going in to wipe them out.

Aries Walker
06-14-2013, 10:54 AM
so we are going to give military support to the Rebels that have said they are all about Al-Qaeda????

That's a hell of a thing there.
From what I understand, the rebels aren't one cohesive group; some are clearly Al Qaeda and some aren't. We're ( theoretically) going to aid ones that aren't.

I can't wait for the first time we exchange direct fire with Russian or Iranian troops, or our weapons get used against us after being captured. Whee.

Comrade Crapski
06-14-2013, 10:59 AM
Oh, how convenient. Last month, couldn't find them.

This month, oh look! they were here the entire time!

:drool:

jjjayb
06-14-2013, 11:04 AM
Can't wait to use the old "Obama lied, people died!" slogan.

BucEyedPea
06-14-2013, 11:05 AM
You realize we're getting rid of another secular govt in the ME. As bad as some of these govt's may be, replacing them with Sharia-jihadist leaning is not exactly in our interests either.

petegz28
06-14-2013, 11:05 AM
seems to me Syria will be a convenient distraction from all the IRS, Benghazi, AP scandals

Dave Lane
06-14-2013, 11:11 AM
Too bad they all can't just gas each other and be done with it

Works for me!

BigChiefTablet
06-14-2013, 12:59 PM
Obama needs to drone himself for providing known terrorist organizations with arms.

BucEyedPea
06-14-2013, 01:00 PM
seems to me Syria will be a convenient distraction from all the IRS, Benghazi, AP scandals

War always is. Hey! Look over there! Look what they're doing. It's much worse. So you should be grateful.

Comrade Crapski
06-14-2013, 05:19 PM
Obama needs to drone himself for providing known terrorist organizations with arms.

I'd settle for him falling down the stairs and breaking his neck.

DementedLogic
06-14-2013, 06:54 PM
I think it's pretty clear that Obama is going to take another option: to provide arms to the rebels, and probably SF "advisers" if they aren't already there.

Do you think it is wise to arm Al-Qaeda?

WilliamTheIrish
06-14-2013, 07:35 PM
Obama needs to drone himself for providing known terrorist organizations with arms.

I like that.

"drone yourself". "Donnie Moore yourself".

These things need to updated from time to time.

Donger
06-14-2013, 07:40 PM
Do you think it is wise to arm Al-Qaeda?

No.

HonestChieffan
06-14-2013, 08:24 PM
Let the bastards kill each other. Id give both sides ammo and guns and sit back and watch these fuckwads kill each other

LiveSteam
06-14-2013, 08:33 PM
Let the bastards kill each other. Id give both sides ammo and guns and sit back and watch these fuckwads kill each other

I have a few guns I would donate to the cause

Dylan
06-14-2013, 11:19 PM
The war amongst Islamic factions began in 632 CE. Today in Syria, they are in the 3rd year of a crusade that was launched several centuries ago.

Report: Police foil al-Nusra bomb attack planned for Adana

30 May 2013

Excerpt: Seven members of Syria's militant al-Nusra group were detained on Wednesday after police found sarin gas, which was reportedly going to be used in a bomb attack, during a search of the suspects' homes, Turkish media have reported.

Newspapers claimed on Thursday that two kilograms of sarin gas, which is usually used for making bombs and was banned by the UN in 1991, had been found in the homes of suspects detained in the southern provinces of Adana and Mersin. Twelve suspects were caught by the police on Monday. The reports claimed that the al-Nusra members had been planning a bomb attack for Thursday in Adana but that the attack was averted when the police caught the suspects. Along with the sarin gas, the police seized a number of handguns, grenades, bullets and documents during their search. Five of the suspects were released later on Thursday.
Zaman: One of the largest Turkish daily newspapers published in Turkey

Read here: http://www.todayszaman.com/news-316966-report-police-foil-al-nusra-bomb-attack-planned-for-adana.html

Radikal: http://www.radikal.com.tr/turkiye/adanada_el_nusra_operasyonu_2_kilo_sarin_gazi_bulundu-1135579


These are the same rebels who just pledged loyalty to Al Qaeda and executed a 14 year old for "insulting Islam."

A teenager selling coffee in the northern Syrian city of Aleppo was arrested by Islamist rebel fighters for insulting the Prophet Mohammed, beaten and then executed in front of his family.

Dylan
06-15-2013, 02:11 AM
The US should stay out of Syria. Futhermore, It is foolish to think that the Russians would stand idly by while Syria falls into the hands of rebel Free Syrian Army and extreme Islamists. Russia has a close relationship with the Assad goverment for 40 years. The Syrian port of Tartus is home to Russia's naval base in the Mediterranean.

According to a report in Bloomberg, rebel FSA Colonel Abdel-Hamid Zakaria made the threat to slaughter minority Muslims in Syria during an interview from Turkey with Al-Arabiya television. "We don’t want this to happen, but it will be a reality imposed on everyone," Zakaria said during the interview, referring to his alliance wiping certain minority communities off the map if regime forces succeeded in taking Al-Qusair. “It’s going to be an open, sectarian, bloody war to the end.”

Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-21/syria-rebels-threaten-to-wipe-out-shiite-alawite-towns.html

Obama wants us to get involved in this mess? He has no idea of how to relate to these people's motivations. Assad is nothing compared to the despot who will replace him if the Syrian rebels prevail.

Dylan
06-15-2013, 02:24 AM
Vladimir Putin is on the right side.


Beheadings by Syrian Rebels Add to Atrocities

Syrian opposition forces recruited a 14-year-old boy from Homs as a fighter and had a child take part in beheading two government soldiers, according to a United Nations report citing human-rights abuses by both sides in Syria's civil war.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-04/beheadings-by-syrian-rebels-add-to-atrocities-un-says.html


Armed Rebels Massacre Entire Population of Christian Village in Syria

The armed rebels affiliated to the Free Syrian Army (FSA) raided the Christian-populated al-Duvair village in Reef (outskirts of) Homs near the border with Lebanon today and massacred all its civilian residents, including women and children.

The Syrian army, however, intervened and killed tens of terrorists during heavy clashes which are still going on in al-Duvair village.

http://www.abna.ir/data.asp?lang=3&id=423524 Minus the photos.


I wonder how much the Syrian rebels had to donate to the DNC to get the arms.

Ace Gunner
06-15-2013, 07:34 AM
Russian foreign minister questions Syrian chemical weapons evidence


MOSCOW - Russia's foreign minister said Saturday that the evidence put forth by the United States of chemical weapons use in Syria apparently doesn't meet stringent criteria for reliability.

The Obama administration said this week that it will give lethal aid to Syrian rebels in light of evidence that President Bashar Assad's forces used chemical weapons in the country's civil war.

In Moscow, Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said the material does not include guarantees that it meets the requirements of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons. He said the organization specifies that samples taken from blood, urine and clothing can be considered reliable evidence only if supervised by organization experts from the time they are taken up to delivery to a laboratory.

The OPCW is the autonomous body for implementing the international Chemical Weapons Convention that went into effect in 1997. Its website says Syria is one of six countries that have not signed or acceded to the convention.

A spokesman for the organization, based in The Hague, Netherlands, could not immediately be reached for comment.

Lavrov, after meeting with his Italian counterpart Emma Bonino, scoffed at suggestions that Assad's regime would use chemical weapons now in light of its apparent growing advantage against the rebels.

"The regime doesn't have its back to the wall. What would be the sense of the regime using chemical weapons, moreover at such a small quantity?" he said.

Russia has blocked proposed U.N. sanctions against Assad's regime and acknowledged last month that it has contracted to supply advanced S-300 air-defence missiles to Syria. But President Vladimir Putin and other officials say the policies do not constitute overt support for Assad.



Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Russian+foreign+minister+questions+Syrian+chemical+weapons/8531177/story.html#ixzz2WHtR76Td

Aries Walker
06-15-2013, 08:58 AM
I'm not convinced there is a 'right side' in this mess. Assad is a monster, but I don't harbor great amounts of confidence in the "Well, if we only arm the GOOD rebels" plan we seem to be embracing now. It seems a bit too reminiscent of arming the Taliban against the USSR in the 80's for me.

BucEyedPea
06-15-2013, 10:01 AM
Why would Assad use poison gas when he's winning the war, knowing full-well that doing such would bring in the US and her allies. The man is not an idiot.

Just some of the things that folks like Donger, who believe the lies of the state, don't think through.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/u-361y3W6IE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

DementedLogic
06-15-2013, 10:47 AM
No.

Do you support Obama arming the rebels?

Donger
06-15-2013, 10:50 AM
Do you support Obama arming the rebels?

No

KILLER_CLOWN
06-15-2013, 11:06 AM
UN Tells War Mongers That Syrian Rebels Used WMD, NOT Assad

Carla Del Ponte, a senior UN official said evidence from casualties and medical staff indicated that rebel forces in the civil war had used the deadly nerve agent sarin.

‘Our investigators have been in neighbouring countries interviewing victims, doctors and field hospitals, and there are strong, concrete suspicions, but not yet incontrovertible proof, of the use of sarin gas,’ said Del Ponte in an interview with Swiss-Italian television.

‘This was use on the part of the opposition, the rebels, not by the government authorities.’

The imperial forces know this but they choose to ignore it and bak people who in 5 years will turn on them anyways but maybe thats what they want, perpetual war to justify their police state. Miss Del Ponte, as far as this issue is concerned, is a voice of fairness and reason. Same as Russia, who lashed out at western claims that Assad had used Sarin gas saying they are using the samejustification they did in Iraq which infamously turned out to be a complete andtotal lie which nobody has ever faced justice for. -Mort

http://beforeitsnews.com/r2/?url=http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/un-accuses-syrian-rebels-of-carrying-out-sarin-gas-attacks-which-had-been-blamed-on-assads-troops/47496

BucEyedPea
06-15-2013, 11:15 AM
UN Tells War Mongers That Syrian Rebels Used WMD, NOT Assad
This has been stated by others including just a few months ago by some Americans.

Dylan
06-15-2013, 11:24 AM
Los Angeles Times June 9, 2013

U.S. considers taking in Syrian refugees

A resettlement plan aims to help both the hard-hit Syrian families and the Middle Eastern countries that are straining to support 1.6 million refugees.

WASHINGTON — Two years into a civil war that shows no signs of ending, the Obama administration is considering resettling refugees who have fled Syria, part of an international effort that could bring thousands of Syrians to American cities and towns.

A resettlement plan under discussion in Washington and other capitals is aimed at relieving pressure on Middle Eastern countries straining to support 1.6 million refugees, as well as assisting hard-hit Syrian families
The State Department is "ready to consider the idea," an official from the department said, if the administration receives a formal request from the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Refugees, which is the usual procedure.

The United States usually accepts about half the refugees that the U.N. agency proposes for resettlement. California has historically taken the largest share, but Illinois, Florida, Pennsylvania, Maryland and Virginia are also popular destinations.

U.N. refugee officials, diplomats and nongovernmental relief groups plan to discuss possible resettlement schemes at a high-level meeting this week in Geneva. Germany already has committed to taking 5,000 people.

"It was probably inevitable that in this crisis, with these overwhelming numbers, governments would start moving in this direction," said Lavinia Limon, chief executive officer of the U.S. Committee for Refugees and Immigrants, a Virginia-based advocacy and service group. "But there will be resistance."

Congress strongly resisted accepting Iraqi refugees, including interpreters who had worked with U.S. forces, after the 2003 U.S.-led invasion. Most lawmakers share White House caution about getting more engaged in Syria and may have little appetite for a major influx.

But Susan Rice, President Obama's new national security advisor, and Samantha Power, Obama's nominee for U.S. ambassador to the U.N., both have been strong advocates for refugees. They may make the White House more receptive to at least a partial opening.

Homeland security officials require careful vetting of refugees, with multiple interviews and background checks before they are allowed to enter the country. Under normal circumstances, the screening process can take a year or longer.

U.S. officials are likely to be extra careful with Syrian refugees. As Islamic militants take a more prominent role in the rebel forces, officials worry about fighters with Al Qaeda ties trying to enter the country. Two resettled Iraqis were convicted of trying to send arms to Al Qaeda from their home in Bowling Green, Ky.

The refugee dilemma is more acute for countries that lie on Syria's borders.
Jordan, Turkey and Lebanon, which have absorbed the bulk of the refugees, worry that a resettlement plan could actually widen the flood if Syrians see a chance for a better life in North America, Europe or Australia.

Jordan and Lebanon each have taken in about 500,000 refugees and Turkey has more than 375,000, according to the U.N. refugee agency. It predicts that the total number of refugees will double to 3.2 million by the end of the year.

Turkey already has demanded that the West take some its refugees, even proposing an airlift to fly them abroad. Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has faced angry protests against his government for giving refuge to so many Syrians, declared last month, "We are the first victims of the Syrian situation."

Some Middle Eastern officials worry they may get stuck housing and feeding refugees for months or years while the West does the vetting, leading to an even longer logjam and more domestic political turmoil.

"Their view is that unless this involves big numbers, it's not worth doing," said a European official, who declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the subject. "You need to be talking about tens of thousands of people."

Western officials try to discourage poor foreigners who are seeking a more comfortable life or business opportunities in the West. They say resettlement is only for those who can't go home, and seek to dispel notions that an easy life awaits.

According to a State Department publication aimed at refugees, "Cars are not provided.... Most Americans value self-reliance and hard work. They expect newcomers to find jobs as soon as possible and to take care of themselves and their families."

Another sensitive issue is who qualifies for resettlement. Western countries often prefer intact, well-educated families with familiar religious backgrounds.
But experts say 80% of the Syrian refugees are women and children, many with war-related injuries or psychological problems that could hamper finding work or going to school.

Kirk Johnson, founder of the List Project, which has pushed for Iraqi resettlement, said it may be difficult to sell Syrian resettlement to Congress. He said it would require an advocacy effort and sympathetic lawmakers, "and I don't seen either of those necessary ingredients."

Yet most refugee advocates predict that Americans will ultimately help the Syrians.

"Americans have a long tradition of welcoming refugees," said Daryl Grisgraber, a Washington-based Middle East specialist at Refugees International, which provides advocacy and services for refugees.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jun/09/world/la-fg-syria-refugees-20130610



You can't make this stuff up!

go bowe
06-15-2013, 11:45 AM
so we are going to give military support to the Rebels that have said they are all about Al-Qaeda????

That's a hell of a thing there.

actually, they are giving the weapons to the relatively moderate fsa, which has a relatively moderate general in charge...

the weapons will not be given to islamic groups currently fighting alongside the rebels...

in fact, part of the motivation is to arm the moderates so that they can wrest control from the radicals in the "second war" after assad is defeated...

go bowe
06-15-2013, 11:56 AM
and despite the obvious risks, i do support the arming of the fsa...

it's about time for the rebels to be able to fight assad on a level playing field...

i hope they kick ass...

Ace Gunner
06-15-2013, 11:59 AM
UN Tells War Mongers That Syrian Rebels Used WMD, NOT Assad

Carla Del Ponte, a senior UN official said evidence from casualties and medical staff indicated that rebel forces in the civil war had used the deadly nerve agent sarin.

‘Our investigators have been in neighbouring countries interviewing victims, doctors and field hospitals, and there are strong, concrete suspicions, but not yet incontrovertible proof, of the use of sarin gas,’ said Del Ponte in an interview with Swiss-Italian television.

‘This was use on the part of the opposition, the rebels, not by the government authorities.’

The imperial forces know this but they choose to ignore it and bak people who in 5 years will turn on them anyways but maybe thats what they want, perpetual war to justify their police state. Miss Del Ponte, as far as this issue is concerned, is a voice of fairness and reason. Same as Russia, who lashed out at western claims that Assad had used Sarin gas saying they are using the samejustification they did in Iraq which infamously turned out to be a complete andtotal lie which nobody has ever faced justice for. -Mort

http://beforeitsnews.com/r2/?url=http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/un-accuses-syrian-rebels-of-carrying-out-sarin-gas-attacks-which-had-been-blamed-on-assads-troops/47496

uh - uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhh /US intel

Dylan
06-15-2013, 11:59 AM
International multimedia news agencies keep an eye on the Web site provided below:

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, an antigovernment watchdog group based in Britain with a network of contacts across Syria.

http://syriahr.com/en/


Some kinder and gentler "moderate rebels"

Dylan
06-15-2013, 12:03 PM
and despite the obvious risks, i do support the arming of the fsa...

it's about time that the rebels will get the capability to fight assad on a more level playing field...

It's none of our business, go bowe.

Assad is the lesser of two evils...

KILLER_CLOWN
06-15-2013, 12:04 PM
UN accuses Syrian rebels of carrying out sarin gas attacks which had been blamed on Assad’s troops

Lest we forget.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2320223/UN-accuses-Syrian-rebels-carrying-sarin-gas-attacks-blamed-Assads-troops.html

Published May 6, 2013

A senior United Nations official has claimed that Syrian rebels may have used chemical weapons against government forces.

Carla Del Ponte said evidence from casualties and medical staff indicated that rebel forces in the civil war had used the deadly nerve agent sarin.

‘Our investigators have been in neighbouring countries interviewing victims, doctors and field hospitals, and there are strong, concrete suspicions, but not yet incontrovertible proof, of the use of sarin gas,’ said Del Ponte in an interview with Swiss-Italian television.

‘This was use on the part of the opposition, the rebels, not by the government authorities.’

Last night, the UN commission looking into allegations of war crimes in Syria tried to row back on the comments by its human rights investigator, pointing out that conclusive evidence had not been discovered.

However, the White House said it was likely that President Bashar al-Assad’s regime, not the rebels, were behind any chemical weapons use.

Syrian government forces and the rebels have already accused each other of carrying out three attacks with chemical weapons.

Sarin has been classed as a weapon of mass destruction due to its potency and is banned under international law.

US President Barack Obama has said that the use or deployment of chemical weapons in Syria would cross a ‘red line’ that could lead to foreign military intervention.

Following two Israeli air strikes on military bases in the Syrian capital Damascus over the weekend, a Russian foreign ministry spokesman said: ‘We are seriously concerned by the signs of preparation for possible armed intervention in Syria.’

As a long-standing Syrian ally, Russia has protected President Assad by blocking Western efforts in the UN Security Council to push him from power. Israeli officials claim the air strikes were to ensure Lebanon’s Hezbollah did not receive a shipment of hi-tech missiles that could threaten Israel.

The comments by Ms Del Ponte, a member of the U.N. panel probing alleged war crimes in Syria, contradict claims by Britain and the U.S. that intelligence reports showed Syrian soldiers had used chemical weapons.

She said that the United Nations independent commission of inquiry on Syria has not yet seen evidence of government forces having used chemical weapons, which are banned under international law.

‘Our investigators have been in neighbouring countries interviewing victims, doctors and field hospitals and, according to their report of last week which I have seen, there are strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof of the use of sarin gas, from the way the victims were treated,’ said Ms Del Ponte.

The odourless, colourless nerve agent prevents the proper operation of the enzyme acetylcholinesterase, the nervous system’s ‘off switch’ for glands and muscles.

Without this enzyme muscles are continually stimulated leading to convulsions, paralysis, unconsciousness and eventually respiratory failure leading to death.

Ms Del Ponte, a former Swiss attorney-general who also served as prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, gave no details as to when or where sarin may have been used.

Assad’s government and the rebels accuse each another of carrying out three chemical weapon attacks, one near Aleppo and another near Damascus, both in March, and another in Homs in December.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/06/article-2320223-19759714000005DC-491_634x474.jpg

Horrific: Experts have said that the injuries shown in the video, which emerged last month, are consistent with those sustained after a chemical weapon attack

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/06/article-2320223-197596FC000005DC-141_634x474.jpg

Graphic: The video was posted on the Facebook page of British-trained doctor Niazi Habash, who treated some of the victims of the strike, which was said to have hit the northern city of Aleppo

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/06/article-2320223-19759720000005DC-57_634x474.jpg
Victim: A woman is treated for what appears to be breathing difficulties at a clinic in the north of Aleppo. Rebels blamed government forces for the attack, but a UN Commission suspects they carried it out themselves

Meanwhile fighting continued to rage in Syria, where rebels claimed to have killed eight government troops after shooting down their helicopter in the eastern province of Deir el-Zour, along Syria’s border with Iraq.

The Coventry-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights posted footage online showing several armed men standing in front of the wreckage.

As one of the fighters in the video speaks, the camera pans to a pick-up truck piled with bodies. The fighter is then heard saying that all of Assad’s troops who were on board the helicopter were killed as it crashed.

He says Islamic fighters of the Abu Bakr Saddiq brigade brought down the helicopter as it was taking off from a nearby air base in the provincial capital.

The Observatory, which claims to get its information via a network of activists on the ground, said eight troops were killed in the incident yesterday.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/06/article-2320223-19A51AEC000005DC-868_634x431.jpg

Narrative: The soldier speaking in the video says Islamic fighters of the Abu Bakr Saddiq brigade brought down the helicopter as it was taking off from a nearby air base in the provincial capital

Rebels also yesterday occupied parts of the Mannagh military air base after weeks of fighting with government troops who have for months been defending the sprawling facility near the border with Turkey.

Assad’s warplanes were pounding rebel positions inside the base on today as battles between rebels and government forces raged on, the Observatory said, adding there was an unknown number of casualties on both sides.

The rebels moved deep into the air base yesterday despite fire from government warplanes, capturing a tank unit inside and killing the base commander, claimed the Aleppo Media Centre, another activist group.

The fighting comes a day after Israeli warplanes struck areas in and around the capital, Damascus, setting off a series of explosions as they targeted a shipment of guided missiles believed to be bound for Hezbollah.

The airstrike, the second in three days and the third this year, signalled a sharp escalation of Israel’s involvement in Syria’s civil war.

Syrian state media reported that Israeli missiles hit a military and scientific research centre near Damascus and caused casualties. The reports did not specify the number or say if the casualties were civilians or troops.

The state-run Sana news agency made no mention of the fighting inside the Mannagh air base. But it reported that government troops today regained control of villages along the highway linking the northern city of Aleppo to its civilian airport, the country’s second largest.

Syrian ‘armed forces restored security and stability to (six) villages’ south of the city and along the airport highway, Sana said, calling it a ‘major strategic victory in the north’.

Much of the north has been in opposition hands since rebels launched an offensive in the area last summer, seizing army bases, large swathes of land along the border with Turkey and whole neighbourhoods inside Aleppo.

The Syrian conflict started in 2011 with protests against Assad’s regime, but eventually turned into a civil war that according to UN estimates has so far killed more than 70,000 people.

More than one million Syrians have fled their homes during the fighting and sought shelter in neighbouring countries such as Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey. Millions of others have been displaced inside the country.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2320223/UN-accuses-Syrian-rebels-carrying-sarin-gas-attacks-blamed-Assads-troops.html#ixzz2WDrjBAa8

Dylan
06-15-2013, 12:09 PM
The alleged evidence of the use of deadly poison gas by the government of Assad only served to justify arming the rebels. A move that Obama had called a “red line.”

KILLER_CLOWN
06-15-2013, 12:13 PM
The alleged evidence of the use of deadly poison gas by the government of Assad only served to justify arming the rebels. A move that Obama had called a “red line.”

Obama lied. He’s a serial liar. He claims Syria used chemical weapons. His so-called red line was crossed. No verifiable evidence provides proof. Clear facts prove he lied.

Syria’s Foreign Ministry called Obama’s accusations “a caravan of lies” and “fabrications.”

On May 5, Reuters headlined “UN has testimony that Syrian rebels used sarin gas: investigator.”

Geneva-based “UN human rights investigators have gathered testimony from casualties of Syria’s civil war and medical staff indicating that rebel forces have used the nerve agent sarin, one of the lead investigators said on Sunday.”

”The United Nations independent commission of inquiry on Syria has not yet seen evidence of government forces having used chemical weapon.”

Under heavy pressure, UN investigators back-tracked. They about-faced. They recanted. They lied. They claimed no “conclusive findings as to the use of chemical weapons in Syria by any parties to the conflict.”

Investigators failed “to determine the precise chemical agents used, their delivery systems or the perpetrator.”

Clear facts don’t matter. Obama manufactured his own. He twisted reality to fit policy. He replicated a familiar scenario. Doing so reflects another Colin Powell moment.

His infamous February 5, 2003 Security Council speech led to war. It was shameless deception. WMD claims were false. Powell later recanted. It was too late to matter. Iraq was ravaged and destroyed.

Waging war requires reasons to do so. When none exist, they’re invented. At issue is greater intervention in Syria. Lies substitute for truth. Claims about Syria using chemical weapons don’t wash. Repetition gets people to believe them. We’ve seen it all before.

Previous articles explained what bears repeating. Syria is Washington’s war. It was planned years ago. US-enlisted death squads wage it. They’re proxy foot soldiers.

There’s nothing civil about ongoing conflict. Syria was invaded. Internal opposition is largely nonviolent. It wants dialogue, not war.

Washington’s been arming, funding, training and directing insurgents since conflict began. CIA operatives and US special forces are involved.

“Salvador Option” rules apply. They include massacres, torture, other gruesome atrocities, and chemical weapons use blamed on Assad.

At issue is regime change. Washington wants pro-Western puppet leadership replacing Assad. Independent governments aren’t tolerated. Big Lies launch wars. Obama’s heading closer to full-scale US intervention. Libya 2.0 looms.

Alexei Pushkov reacted. He heads Russia’s Duma. It’s the Lower House of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation.

Obama’s “going the same way” as Bush, he said. “Information about the usage of chemical weapons by Assad is fabricated in the same way as the lie about (Saddam) Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction.”

Benjamin Rhodes is White House deputy national security advisor for strategic communication.

“The president has said that the use of chemical weapons would change his calculus, and it has,” he said.

US intelligence determined with “high certainty” that Assad “used chemical weapons, including the nerve agent sarin, on a small scale against the opposition multiple times in the last year.”

US intelligence determined nothing. Insurgents alone used chemical weapons. Obama knows it. So do other administration officials and congressional members.

Rhodes turned truth on its head. He regurgitated the official lie. He’s paid to do so. Imperial priorities alone matter.

Up to 150 people died, Rhodes said. Obama ruled out US ground forces. He made no decision regarding a no-fly zone. He stopped short of ordering other US intervention.

According to the Wall Street Journal:

“US military planners, responding to a request by the White House to develop options for Syria, recommended the limited no-fly zone along the Syrian border to protect rebels and refugees inside Jordan.”

“The plan would create what one official called a ‘no fighting zone’ that would stretch up to 25 miles into Syrian territory along the Jordanian border, preventing Mr. Assad’s forces from launching attacks against the rebels and refugees and protecting US personnel involved in distributing weapons and providing training.”

“Under this plan, the US. and its allies would enforce the zone using aircraft flown from Jordanian bases and flying inside the kingdom, according to US officials.”

“Suffice it to say (that what’s planned) is going to be different in both scope and scale” than previously, said Rhodes.

“We will continue to increase these efforts going forward. I can’t go through an inventory of the type of assistance we are going to provide.”

“It’s going to be substantively different from what we were providing certainly before our initial (chemical weapons) assessment in April.”

“It’s going to be an increase on both the political and the military side. We have a range of contingency plans drawn up.”

Readers can review the full text of Rhodes’ remarks.

Arms shipments will begin. CIA elements will handle them. Agency officials declined comment. On June 17 and 18, G8 leaders meet in Northern Ireland. Syria for sure will be discussed.

Russia prioritizes diplomatic conflict resolution. Obama wants war, not peace. Rogue leaders operate this way. So do Senators John McCain (R. AZ) and Lindsey Graham (R. SC). On June 13, they released a joint statement, saying:

“We appreciate the President’s finding that the Assad regime has used chemical weapons on several occasions. We also agree with the President that this fact must affect US policy toward Syria.”

“The President’s red line has been crossed. US credibility is on the line. Now is not the time to merely take the next incremental step. Now is the time for more decisive actions.”

“The conflict in Syria has taken a dramatic turn for the worse. The United Nations reported today that the death toll in Syria is approaching 93,000.”

“Hezbollah is all in. Iran is all in. Iraqi militant groups are flowing into Syria to fight for Assad. Russia continues to provide military and diplomatic support.”

“Assad is dramatically increasing his use of airpower against civilians and opposition forces in Syria. A report today stated that Assad’s forces conducted at least 5,000 air-to-ground attacks last month alone.”

“A decision to provide lethal assistance, especially ammunition and heavy weapons, to opposition forces in Syria is long overdue, and we hope the President will take this urgently needed step.”

“But providing arms alone is not sufficient. That alone is not enough to change the military balance of power on the ground against Assad.”

The President must rally an international coalition to take military actions to degrade Assad’s ability to use airpower and ballistic missiles and to move and resupply his forces around the battlefield by air.”

“This can be done, as we have said many times, using stand-off weapons such as cruise missiles.”

“We cannot afford to delay any longer. Assad is on the offensive with every weapon in his arsenal and with the complete support of his foreign allies. We must take more decisive actions now to turn the tide of the conflict in Syria.”

McCain and Graham are notorious warmongers. They’re war criminals. They support lawless aggression. It’s the supreme crime against peace.

Like Obama officials, they turn truth on its head. They twist reality to fit policies they urge. They recklessly endanger world peace. They threaten humanity. They belong in prison, not high office.

They’re not alone. Likeminded scoundrels infest Washington. They proliferate Big Lies. They spurn fundamental rule of law principles. They do so unapologetically. Imperial priorities alone matter.

America’s heading closer to more war. Obama’s hands already are blood-drenched. He’s a war criminal multiple times over. He can’t wait to kill again.

He bears full responsibility for thousands of Syrian deaths. He plans mass-slaughtering more. His agenda reflects death and destruction.

He exceeded the worst of George Bush. His contempt for humanity is palpable. It may not survive his second term. He’s got more than Syria in mind. The road to Tehran runs through Damascus.

Longstanding war plans threaten the Islamic Republic. Millions more lives are at stake.

Washington Post editors urge war on Syria. Stephen Hadley was Bush II National Security Advisor. James Steinberg is former Obama Deputy Secretary of State. Joe Lieberman was US Senator from Connecticut.

On June 13, their Washington Post op-ed headlined “Iran’s nuclear ambitions demand urgent reaction from international community,” saying:

“(T)he world has become numb to Iranian intransigence, a policy that is unlikely to change no matter who wins” Friday’s presidential election.

A “sense of crisis is warranted,” they claimed. Iran “stonewall(s) the international community at the negotiating table.” It’s heading toward “produc(ing) a nuclear weapon.”

“The United States urgently needs to take several steps that will significantly sharpen the choice faced by Iran’s leaders.”

Obama “should signal unequivocally that the United States is prepared to take military action against Iran absent a diplomatic breakthrough.”

“He should publicly announce that it has plans for military action against Iranian nuclear and missile facilities, conduct military exercises in the region in a systematic and sustained way consistent with those plans, deploy US military forces to protect critical assets of our allies in the region and prepare to close down overseas Hezbollah cells and expose Iranian intelligence agents.”

“It is no longer possible to shrug off the ongoing diplomatic impasse with Tehran. The United States and the international community must approach this crisis with the clarity, determination and urgency it demands and deserves.”

Iran threatens no one. It’s nuclear program is peaceful. Washington, European and Israeli official know it. They claim otherwise.

Warmongers infest Washington. Bipartisan scoundrels decide policy. America’s addicted to war. Permanent war is longstanding policy.

Peace is verboten. Today is the most perilous time in world history. Nations that live by war perish by it. America’s demise may take humanity with it.

many links at this link....

http://www.intifada-palestine.com/2013/06/obama-ups-the-stakes-in-syria/

Ace Gunner
06-15-2013, 12:14 PM
7-year-old totes AK-47 assault rifle in Syrian civil war
http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2013/03/29/news/web_photos/29.1n003.toughkid1--300x300.jpg
NOT JUST PLAYING WAR: Ahmed, the son of a fighter in
the Free Syrian Army, smokes and stands guard with an AK-47
in front of a barricade protecting rebels from snipers.

Bloody civil war puts kids in line of fire

By ANDY SOLTIS
From With Times of London and Post Wire Services
Last Updated: 6:03 AM, March 29, 2013
Posted: 12:48 AM, March 29, 201

This is what the brutal Syrian civil war has come to — a 7-year-old toting an AK-47.

Ahmed, the son of a fighter in the Free Syrian Army, was photographed bearing an assault rifle nearly as big as him and taking a drag on a cigarette as he guarded a barricade that shelters rebels from government snipers.

New York-born photojournalist Sebastiano Tomada Piccolomini, 26, was allowed to get this close to the rebels in a once-fashionable district in the city of Aleppo and snapped this picture of Ahmed to illustrate how savage the war has become.

“When you are on the front line, it’s very easy to bond with those around you,” Piccolomini told The Times of London. “They took me as one of them. I crawled, ducked, jumped, yelled and breathed everything they did. I watched them die.”

Sebastiano Tomada Piccolomini/Sipa
NOT JUST PLAYING WAR: Ahmed, the son of a fighter in the Free Syrian Army, smokes and stands guard with an AK-47 in front of a barricade protecting rebels from snipers.
Teenagers and youngsters have increasingly been drawn into the two-year conflict, which has killed more than 70,000 people.

More than 4,200 of the dead have been children, according to an opposition group. The UN regards the recruitment or even volunteer enlistment of youths under the age of 18 as a war crime.

But Human Rights Watch, which has monitored the struggle to bring down President Bashar al-Assad’s regime, found several boys in Syria last year who said they had been recruited and trained to fight.

The cost of the war to Syria’s youth was underscored yesterday when mortar fire killed at least 10 students at Damascus University, authorities said.

State-run TV blamed the rebels for the attack on an open-air campus cafeteria. It showed footage of plastic tables and chairs toppled, shattered glass and pens and books scattered on the floor.

The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights confirmed the attack, saying 13 were killed and many of the 20 wounded were in critical condition.

“No one anywhere in the world can imagine a more criminal act than this,” the state-run SANA news agency quoted Amer al-Mardini, the president of the university, as saying.

Anti-Bashar activists accused the regime of launching the attack to tarnish the opposition’s image. Last weekend, rebel groups sent out warnings on the Internet, saying they planned to intensify strikes on government and military sites in Damascus in what they called “Operation Shaking the Fort.”

But other shellings have occurred near civilian targets, including the Sheraton Hotel and a soccer stadium, both on Damascus’ west side. Mortar shells also have struck in areas to the east, like the Christian neighborhood of Bab Touma.

The United Nations said on Monday it would withdraw about half of its international staff from Damascus after a mortar bomb landed near their hotel.

Also yesterday, Russia harshly criticized the Arab League’s recognition of the Syrian opposition as the only representative of the country.

It said the league’s decision at a summit in Qatar to let the main opposition group take over Syria killed efforts to negotiate a peaceful end to the civil war.

Russia has been Assad’s main supporter throughout the conflict.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/syrian_tough_guy_is_all_of_vENGJ5xfYsOxCpl7JGsn6M


_________________________________________________________

noted;

* this story is over one month old

* The US gov't is arming kids worldwide while disarming americans

* I wonder if the cigarettes are US comps too

* I'd put this 7yo up against any american fat fuck 7 yo FTW

KILLER_CLOWN
06-15-2013, 12:15 PM
Brzezinksi: Obama Syria plan is ‘chaos, baffling, a mess, tragedy’
My Catbird Seat June 15, 2013 4

"I think our posture is baffling, there is no strategic design, we're using slogans," slammed Brzezinski on MSNBC's Morning Joe Friday. "It's a tragedy and it's a mess in the making," he said. "I do not see what the United States right now is trying to accomplish."

http://mycatbirdseat.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Zbigniew-Brzezinski-MCS.jpg

The president's abrupt decision to arm Syrian rebels is a huge mistake, one driven by emotion and propaganda not the kind of strategic White House plan that has marked past successful interventions in civil wars, according to former Carter-era national security chief Zbigniew Brzezinski.

In a broad attack on President Obama's vague interventionist policy, the highly-respected international affairs analyst warned that by jumping in to Syria's civil war with no plan is likely to lead to another costly and extended military action that could eventually draw U.S. forces into a clash with Syria's top ally Iran.

"I think our posture is baffling, there no strategic design, we're using slogans," slammed Brzezinski on MSNBC's Morning Joe Friday. "It's a tragedy and it's a mess in the making," he said. "I do not see what the United States right now is trying to accomplish."

The administration Thursday changed its wait-and-see policy, sparked by Syrian admissions it had used chemical weapons in the civil war. The new policy of arming rebels was announced by deputy national security advisor Ben Rhodes.

"It all seems to me rather sporadic, chaotic, unstructured, undirected," said Brzezinski. "I think we need a serious policy review with the top people involved, not just an announcement from the deputy head of the NSC that an important event has taken place and we will be reacted to it."

Several lawmakers have been pressing Obama to arm rebels and create a no-fly zone, two things the president is finally willing to do. The effectiveness of a go-it-alone policy, however, has been questioned in the military, especially plans for a no-fly zone.

Brzezinski said, "we are running the risk of getting into another war in the region which may last for years and I don't see any real strategic guidance to what we are doing. I see a lot of rhetoric, a lot emotion, a lot of propaganda in fact."

Instead, he advised that the administration build a coalition that includes Russia, Japan, China and India to put pressure on Syria's ruling regime to give up.

"That is the kind of response that might have some effect. Instead we are essentially engaging in mass propaganda, portraying this as a democratic war," said Brze

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mlyonsd
06-15-2013, 12:22 PM
Bubba Clinton basically painted Obama into a corner with his comments regarding looking like "a total fool" if he does nothing for the Syrian rebels.

Dylan
06-15-2013, 12:36 PM
Syria is in the grips of a full-blown religious civil war.

Support the refugees in Jordan and elsewhere. Support Israel to defend its own borders and contain Hezbollah - And hope that with time and enough internecine bloodletting, the Sunnis and Shiites will find a way to peace after 13 centuries of pointless, primitive hatred.

FYI: The Quran discourages Muslims from receiving help from infidels like the US.

When will we ever learn?

Dylan
06-15-2013, 12:40 PM
Bubba Clinton basically painted Obama into a corner with his comments regarding looking like "a total fool" if he does nothing for the Syrian rebels.

I wish Obama would have told Clinton that this is no Rwanda...

alnorth
06-15-2013, 12:48 PM
I've never understood why the use of chemical weapons should be our "red line".

If you hypothetically have decided you won't intervene if a government swiss-cheeses its people under a hail of bullets, why should gassing them be any different?

The only "red line" we ought to have should be the irresponsible/crazy use of infectious disease as a weapon, only because it could spread to harm people who aren't inoculated in other countries who are not involved, including maybe your own. Maybe some gigantic forms of fallout-producing nuclear weapons for similar reasons.

Dylan
06-15-2013, 06:50 PM
Why are we still fighting with Al Qaeda and giving them weapons in Syria? It is getting harder and harder to tell one full bearded, wild eyed madman from another.


Al Arabiya News

Qaeda in Iraq rejects Zawahiri ruling on Nusra

Saturday, 15 June 2013

Al-Qaeda’s leader in Iraq has defied orders from the group’s global chief, Ayman al-Zawahiri, to break up his claimed union with a jihadist group in Syria, according to an audio message released Saturday.

The purported remarks by Islamic State of Iraq head Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi in the message posted on jihadist forums indicate tensions between ISI and Al-Qaeda’s central command.

In April, Baghdadi announced that ISI had merged with Syria’s Al-Nusra Front.
Al-Nusra leader Abu Mohammed al-Jawlani acknowledged a relationship between the two groups, but he denied there had been a merger and publicly pledged his allegiance to Zawahiri.

Yet in Saturday’s message, the man identified as Baghdadi said “the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant remains, as long as there is blood in our veins and our eyes are blinking.

“It remains, and we will not compromise; we will not give up... until we die.”

Earlier this month, Zawahiri ruled that the ISI and Al-Nusra should operate as separate entities, according to a letter posted on Al-Jazeera’s website.

Baghdadi had “made a mistake” by announcing a merger “without consulting us,” he said.

The merger plan has been “damaging to all jihadists,” Zawahiri said, adding that “Al-Nusra Front is an independent branch of Al-Qaeda.”

But the message on Saturday said: “Regarding the message which was attributed to Sheikh Ayman al-Zawahiri ... (I) was put in a situation, to choose between God’s command and an order against God.”

“I chose the order of my God, over the order against it in the message.”

The audio message could not immediately be independently verified.
Al-Nusra Front, created in January 2012, joined Al-Qaeda last December on a US list of foreign terrorist organizations.

Among elements fighting to oust the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, it is one of the best armed and most successful on the battlefield. It has carried out some of the deadliest attacks in the uprising, claiming responsibility for several suicide bombings.

Aries Walker
06-15-2013, 07:02 PM
I wish Obama would have told Clinton that this is no Rwanda...
I was going to go Somalia, but Rwanda works.

Easy 6
06-16-2013, 01:15 AM
It's none of our business, go bowe.

Assad is the lesser of two evils...

As things drag on, i'm actually starting to believe this.

The opposition is such a fluid, mixed bag that God knows who would end up controlling that country.

BucEyedPea
06-16-2013, 10:29 AM
This civil war is being instigated from the outside to large degree just as Libya was. It's just the next phase of A Clean Break written by some NeoCons in the late 1990's. Next stop, Iran, despite a reformer winning elections. They want global control.

Donger
06-16-2013, 01:13 PM
Iran to send 4,000 troops to aid President Assad forces in Syria (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iran-to-send-4000-troops-to-aid-president-assad-forces-in-syria-8660358.html)

Dylan
06-16-2013, 04:52 PM
Published: The New York Times

An older rebel who leads a few dozen fighters on one of the front lines in Aleppo was skeptical. “I’ll believe that America is helping us when I see American arms in my group’s hands, not statements and food baskets,” said the 40-year-old fighter, who calls himself Abu Zaki. “We will accept all support even from Satan to finish the Assad regime, then we will not forget those who stand and support us and who stand and support the regime.”

Reflecting the questions that remain about which rebels the United States will arm, the commander, Jamal Maarouf, said he did not know if his group would qualify.

“The American said they will arm moderate battalions,” he said. “I don’t know if my battalion is moderate.”

Hania Mourtada contributed reporting from Beirut, Lebanon, and an employee of The New York Times from Aleppo, Syria.

Aries Walker
06-16-2013, 07:22 PM
I would think that if you don't know if your own battalion is moderate, chances are it isn't moderate.