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Prison Bitch
04-29-2013, 12:29 PM
Army Email Labels Christian Ministries as “Domestic Hate Groups”

By Todd Starnes

A U.S. Army officer sent an email to dozens of subordinates listing the American Family Association and Family Research Council as “domestic hate groups” because they oppose homosexuality — and warned officers to monitor soldiers who might be supporters of the groups.

“Just want to ensure everyone is somewhat educated on some of the groups out there that do not share our Army Values,” read an email from Lt. Col. Jack Rich to three dozen subordinates at Fort Campbell in Kentucky. “When we see behaviors that are inconsistent with Army Values – don’t just walk by – do the right thing and address the concern before it becomes a problem.”

Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, told Fox News he was disturbed by the contents of the email.

“It’s very disturbing to see where the Obama Administration is taking the military and using it as a laboratory for social experimentation — and also as an instrument to fundamentally change the culture,” he said. “The message is very clear – if you are a Christian who believes in the Bible, who believes in transcendent truth, there is no place for you in the military.”

The Army denied there is any attack on Christians or those who hold religious beliefs.

“The notion that the Army is taking an anti-religion or anti-Christian stance is contrary to any of our policies, doctrines and regulations,” said George Wright, Army spokesman at the Pentagon. “Any belief that the Army is out to label religious groups in a negative manner is without warrant.”

Wright said they are checking into the origin of the email. At this point it’s unclear who ordered the email to be sent and why.

The 14-page email documented groups the military considers to be anti-gay, anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim. Among the other groups mentioned are Neo-Nazis, Racist Skinheads, White Nationalists and the Ku Klux Klan.

The Family Research Council and the American Family Association were listed as being anti-gay.

“The religious right in America has employed a variety of strategies in its efforts to beat back the increasingly confident gay rights movement,” the officer wrote. “One of those has been defamation.”

The officer accused the “Christian Right” of “engaging in the crudest type of name-calling, describing LGBT people as ‘perverts” with ‘filthy habits’ who seek to snatch the children of straight parents and ‘convert’ them to gay sex,” he wrote.

Last week, Fox News reported that an Army training instructor told a Reserve unit based in Pennsylvania that Evangelical Christianity and Catholicism were examples of religious extremism. The Army categorized that episode as an isolated incident......





http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/army-email-labels-christian-ministries-as-domestic-hate-groups.html

cosmo20002
04-29-2013, 12:51 PM
ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

loochy
04-29-2013, 12:53 PM
ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
YYYYYYYYYYYYyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Brock
04-29-2013, 12:55 PM
Oh, those poor persecuted christians.

Prison Bitch
04-29-2013, 01:11 PM
It is interesting now that opposition to the gay agenda has morphed from "intolerance" (which was totally laughable on it's own merits) to now "defamation". Seriously, defamation. You can't make this stuff up. The Left has gone totally batshit and they're infecting our armed forces now. They will eat & destroy every last organization they can.


They are life's termites.

Ultra Peanut
04-29-2013, 01:15 PM
http://i.imgur.com/79eLzcI.gif

mr. tegu
04-29-2013, 01:28 PM
It is interesting now that opposition to the gay agenda has morphed from "intolerance" (which was totally laughable on it's own merits) to now "defamation". Seriously, defamation. You can't make this stuff up. The Left has gone totally batshit and they're infecting our armed forces now. They will eat & destroy every last organization they can.


They are life's termites.

defamation - noun: the act of defaming; false or unjustified injury of the good reputation of another, as by slander or libel;

The officer accused the “Christian Right” of “engaging in the crudest type of name-calling, describing LGBT people as ‘perverts” with ‘filthy habits’ who seek to snatch the children of straight parents and ‘convert’ them to gay sex,” he wrote

cosmo20002
04-29-2013, 02:03 PM
It is interesting now that opposition to the gay agenda has morphed from "intolerance" (which was totally laughable on it's own merits) to now "defamation". Seriously, defamation. You can't make this stuff up. The Left has gone totally batshit and they're infecting our armed forces now. They will eat & destroy every last organization they can.


They are life's termites.

"The Left" = one guy sent an e-mail

And it was an e-mail that said the Family Research Council and the American Family Association are anti-gay. GASP! Why, I've never seen such a baseless accusation in my whole entire life! LMAO

Prison Bitch
04-29-2013, 02:17 PM
And it was an e-mail that said the Family Research Council and the American Family Association are anti-gay.


N-n-n-n-n-n-noooooo sir. No. Nope. They said they are DOMESTIC HATE GROUPS. Official designation. Don't sugarcoat what the email did here.

alpha_omega
04-29-2013, 02:24 PM
Q?

cosmo20002
04-29-2013, 02:36 PM
N-n-n-n-n-n-noooooo sir. No. Nope. They said they are DOMESTIC HATE GROUPS. Official designation. Don't sugarcoat what the email did here.

They are groups. They are domestic. They hate gays.
Not sure what the issue is here.

Basically, it just seems like you really want to be outraged because one guy sent an e-mail bashing a couple of anti-gay groups. :cuss:

Prison Bitch
04-29-2013, 03:10 PM
They are groups. They are domestic. They hate gays.
Not sure what the issue is here.



:BS:

WhawhaWhat
04-29-2013, 03:54 PM
The FRC is a hate group. They aren't the WBC, but they promote some of the same ideas.

http://www.frc.org/human-sexuality#homosexuality

FRC does not consider homosexuality, bi-sexuality, and transgenderism as acceptable alternative lifestyles or sexual "preferences"; they are unhealthy and destructive to individual persons, families, and society. Compassion compels us to support the healing of those who wish to change their destructive behavior.

In February 2010, the Family Research Council's Senior Researcher for Policy Studies, Peter Sprigg, stated on NBC's Hardball that gay behavior should be outlawed and that "criminal sanctions against homosexual behavior" should be enforced.

Go to 8:37 in the video.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9xEJPvQr9Bc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

cosmo20002
04-29-2013, 04:06 PM
They are groups. They are domestic. They hate gays.
Not sure what the issue is here.


:BS:



What exactly are you calling BS? Two of those three are quite obvious. What, are they actually based in Canada or something?

Aries Walker
04-29-2013, 04:21 PM
If this article was responsible journalism, it would give us more evidence that what the author said was what FOX says that he said. It's short on quotes and long on manufactured outrage.

Also, once you click on that link, Todd Starnes's obvious bias hits you like a baseball bat.

Ebolapox
04-29-2013, 04:26 PM
to quote Prince; if the bra fits.......

Prison Bitch
04-29-2013, 04:32 PM
What exactly are you calling BS? Two of those three are quite obvious. What, are they actually based in Canada or something?

The Brady Gun group hates guns and hates people who own guns. Therefore they should officially be designated as a "hate group" and our Armed forces should be receiving emails about how they should be closely monitored.

Cephalic Trauma
04-29-2013, 04:36 PM
The Brady Gun group hates guns and hates people who own guns. Therefore they should officially be designated as a "hate group" and our Armed forces should be receiving emails about how they should be closely monitored.

You got absolutely drubbed in this thread, and now you're changing the subject.

LMAO

stonedstooge
04-29-2013, 04:36 PM
Are Mooslims a hate group?

Chief Faithful
04-29-2013, 04:48 PM
By these same standards Alcoholic Anonymous should be label a domestic hate group. They do not consider Alcoholism a healthy life style and promote compassion to support healing of this destructive behavior.

People on each side of this debate demands that you not only disagree with but disdain the other as crazy or evil. The rhetoric of our current culture is deeply divided, intense and even hysterical. Nobody is interested in logical ideas or reason only to denounce the other side.

FRC is not a group promoting hate it is a group that believes in family values, Christian morality and long standing traditions of marriage. Nobody from FRC is out committing crimes or hateful acts against homosexuals because of their lifestyle.

LiveSteam
04-29-2013, 04:59 PM
rainbows & rim jobs for everyone.

stonedstooge
04-29-2013, 05:00 PM
rainbows & rim jobs for everyone.

Careful. Writing rim jobs offends me

Prison Bitch
04-29-2013, 05:31 PM
By these same standards Alcoholic Anonymous should be label a domestic hate group. They do not consider Alcoholism a healthy life style and promote compassion to support healing of this destructive behavior.

People on each side of this debate demands that you not only disagree with but disdain the other as crazy or evil. The rhetoric of our current culture is deeply divided, intense and even hysterical. Nobody is interested in logical ideas or reason only to denounce the other side.

FRC is not a group promoting hate it is a group that believes in family values, Christian morality and long standing traditions of marriage. Nobody from FRC is out committing crimes or hateful acts against homosexuals because of their lifestyle.

:clap:


Repped.

Brock
04-29-2013, 05:37 PM
By these same standards Alcoholic Anonymous should be label a domestic hate group. They do not consider Alcoholism a healthy life style and promote compassion to support healing of this destructive behavior.

People on each side of this debate demands that you not only disagree with but disdain the other as crazy or evil. The rhetoric of our current culture is deeply divided, intense and even hysterical. Nobody is interested in logical ideas or reason only to denounce the other side.

FRC is not a group promoting hate it is a group that believes in family values, Christian morality and long standing traditions of marriage. Nobody from FRC is out committing crimes or hateful acts against homosexuals because of their lifestyle.

It is tough to have a logical discussion with people whose only rationale for disliking gay people is religious claptrap.

listopencil
04-29-2013, 05:50 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/10TDlUVGwMk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Cephalic Trauma
04-29-2013, 07:22 PM
By these same standards Alcoholic Anonymous should be label a domestic hate group. They do not consider Alcoholism a healthy life style and promote compassion to support healing of this destructive behavior.

People on each side of this debate demands that you not only disagree with but disdain the other as crazy or evil. The rhetoric of our current culture is deeply divided, intense and even hysterical. Nobody is interested in logical ideas or reason only to denounce the other side.

FRC is not a group promoting hate it is a group that believes in family values, Christian morality and long standing traditions of marriage. Nobody from FRC is out committing crimes or hateful acts against homosexuals because of their lifestyle.

I have yet to see someone who was born an alcoholic. Yes, there are genetic influences, but environment plays a huge role as well.

You can't rehab a gay individual who was born gay. You can rehab an alcoholic.

Also, AA is helping alcoholics, and is often sought out by the individual because their quality of life is severely inhibited by their addiction. Gay individuals are who they are, and no amount of rehab will change that.

The two aren't even comparable.

Prison Bitch
04-29-2013, 08:54 PM
rainbows & rim jobs for everyone.


Or what Libs might call, "stimulus spending"

KILLER_CLOWN
04-29-2013, 10:40 PM
Disapproving of a lifestyle choice is hate? That's a new one.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-29-2013, 10:56 PM
By these same standards Alcoholic Anonymous should be label a domestic hate group. They do not consider Alcoholism a healthy life style and promote compassion to support healing of this destructive behavior.

People on each side of this debate demands that you not only disagree with but disdain the other as crazy or evil. The rhetoric of our current culture is deeply divided, intense and even hysterical. Nobody is interested in logical ideas or reason only to denounce the other side.

FRC is not a group promoting hate it is a group that believes in family values, Christian morality and long standing traditions of marriage. Nobody from FRC is out committing crimes or hateful acts against homosexuals because of their lifestyle.

The fact that you equate being gay with being an alcoholic is precisely why these organizations are labeled as hate groups.

Disapproving of a lifestyle choice is hate? That's a new one.

It isn't a choice. Even if it were, disapproving of someone else's sexual "choice" and speaking out against them makes you a meddlesome asshole.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-29-2013, 11:00 PM
The fact that you equate being gay with being an alcoholic is precisely why these organizations are labeled as hate groups.



It isn't a choice. Even if it were, disapproving of someone else's sexual "choice" and speaking out against them makes you a meddlesome asshole.

Who gives a shit? seriously "Hate" is way overplayed these days, apathy is a lot closer to the truth.

Anyong Bluth
04-29-2013, 11:02 PM
The FRC is a hate group. They aren't the WBC, but they promote some of the same ideas.

http://www.frc.org/human-sexuality#homosexuality





Go to 8:37 in the video.


I cracked the secret cipher code word:

B I G O T.

Anyong Bluth
04-29-2013, 11:09 PM
I have yet to see someone who was born an alcoholic. Yes, there are genetic influences, but environment plays a huge role as well.

You can't rehab a gay individual who was born gay. You can rehab an alcoholic.

Also, AA is helping alcoholics, and is often sought out by the individual because their quality of life is severely inhibited by their addiction. Gay individuals are who they are, and no amount of rehab will change that.

The two aren't even comparable.

Just to touch on the last bit. Gay couples often have a much higher median avg yearly income , double the clothes and disposable income and seen to always have time to vacation a few times a year, brunch weekly, and throw together the best Summer begin and summer end pool parties.

Clearly not a case of their lifestyle being severely diminished, and conceptually so so far from any feasible likeness to ones battle with the bottle.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-29-2013, 11:12 PM
Who gives a shit? seriously "Hate" is way overplayed these days, apathy is a lot closer to the truth.

Clearly the "A" section of your dictionary isn't overplayed.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-29-2013, 11:13 PM
Clearly the "A" section of your dictionary isn't overplayed.

Yes clearly.

Anyong Bluth
04-29-2013, 11:13 PM
Clearly the "A" section of your dictionary isn't overplayed.

: backdoor rep

Prison Bitch
04-29-2013, 11:16 PM
It isn't a choice. Even if it were, disapproving of someone else's sexual "choice" and speaking out against them makes you a meddlesome asshole.


As meddlesome as a liberal speaking out against a conservative Christian, a pro lifer, gun owners, tea partiers, etc right?

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-29-2013, 11:20 PM
As meddlesome as a liberal speaking out against a conservative Christian, a pro lifer, gun owners, tea partiers, etc right?

You seem to have trouble conflating rights with beliefs.

Prison Bitch
04-29-2013, 11:25 PM
Who gives a shit? seriously "Hate" is way overplayed these days, apathy is a lot closer to the truth.

Col Jack Rich penned the 14-page email seen here:
http://action.afa.net/uploadedFiles/Activism/AFA_Action_Alerts/rich_email.pdf



Yeah, he needed 14 pages to list out all the right wing "phobes" terrorizing the red white & blue. What an unbelievably pathetic douche.

patteeu
04-30-2013, 05:22 AM
The fact that you equate being gay with being an alcoholic is precisely why these organizations are labeled as hate groups.

Whether you agree with the analogy or not, that's not hate.

I think there is hate within the religious right for homosexuals, but it's on an individual basis, not movement wide. But disapproval is not hate and there are plenty of religious people who disapprove without hating.

There is also hate within the left and within the gay community for religious people.

Prison Bitch
04-30-2013, 07:23 AM
You seem to have trouble conflating rights with beliefs.

Oh, but of course. Liberals have "beliefs", but conservatives have "hate". Dude, can you come up with some new material here? This one's been wayyyy played out already.

Dave Lane
04-30-2013, 07:31 AM
Is Westboro Baptist Church a hate group?

Prison Bitch
04-30-2013, 07:44 AM
Is Westboro Baptist Church a hate group?


http://www.wnd.com/images/wrightfoxnews.jpg

Dave Lane
04-30-2013, 07:48 AM
http://www.wnd.com/images/wrightfoxnews.jpg

Yeah maybe him too. Most religious folk are watered down versions of WBC, how dilute is the only question.

Dave Lane
04-30-2013, 07:49 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/10TDlUVGwMk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Cool movie too.

Prison Bitch
04-30-2013, 07:51 AM
Yeah maybe him too. Most religious folk are watered down versions of WBC, how dilute is the only question.


Totally. So explain why Westboro was one of those groups mentioned in this 14-page manifesto, but Rev Wright's church wasn't? Wright is the most famous pastor in the entire USA. (Maybe Pat Robertson or Joel Olsteen I'm not sure, is Billy Graham still alive?). No mention of any of these outrageous urban churches in that scare alert. Isn't that so odd?

patteeu
04-30-2013, 07:53 AM
Is Westboro Baptist Church a hate group?

I would say, "yes". But Family Research Council, evangelical Christianity in general, and the Catholic Church are not.

http://i.current.com/images/asset/904/224/49/2Vb2aX.jpg

patteeu
04-30-2013, 07:55 AM
Yeah maybe him too. Most religious folk are watered down versions of WBC, how dilute is the only question.

This has no meaning.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-30-2013, 08:19 AM
This has no meaning.

To Dave and the God haters it does, otherwise true.

Prison Bitch
04-30-2013, 08:53 AM
To Dave and the God haters it does, otherwise true.

While it's sorta fun to laugh at the Daves of the world, it's not remotely funny that they're now infiltrating the armed forces and trying to infect our troops with this garbage. They crammed gays down their throats and incompetent women in the combat units. The military is the last vestige of honor in America that's left, but soon that'll be gone. Sacrificed at the PC altar. Sad what happened to this once-great nation.

Dave Lane
04-30-2013, 09:01 AM
I would say, "yes". But Family Research Council, evangelical Christianity in general, and the Catholic Church are not.

http://i.current.com/images/asset/904/224/49/2Vb2aX.jpg

Again they are watered down versions of the same thing, some are so watered down there is little or no trace of WBC left. It's like yesterdays coffee cup, you can wash it but still some remnant of yesterdays coffee is on the cup. Doesn't matter how hard you try on a molecular level there is some left.

Churches may well be the same. They believe in exactly the same book. How strongly they believe and dilute their viewpoint is from WBC is the only question. I think that churches are inherently evil but that doesn't necessarily make them "hate groups". Funny thing is KC and sr agree with the church potion of it.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-30-2013, 09:05 AM
Again they are watered down versions of the same thing, some are so watered down there is little or no trace of WBC left. It's like yesterdays coffee cup, you can wash it but still some remnant of yesterdays coffee is on the cup. Doesn't matter how hard you try on a molecular level there is some left.

Churches may well be the same. They believe in exactly the same book. How strongly they believe and dilute their viewpoint is from WBC is the only question. I think that churches are inherently evil but that doesn't necessarily make them "hate groups". Funny thing is KC and sr agree with the church potion of it.

Evil? lolz? how does evil exist to you? That's rather funny, and are you saying all churches teach the same? You can't have it both ways.

Dave Lane
04-30-2013, 09:19 AM
Yes I believe teaching people things that aren't true is evil. I think teaching that there is no evolution and that the world is 6000 years old goes beyond counter productive and borders on evil. One of the primary reasons the US rating is science has fallen from #1 to 37th place is due to the meddling of religion. Look at Islamic countries. That is how churches would run the US given the opportunity, and how they have run the Western countries in the past.

The West has recovered from the grip of the church and ultimately the Islamic countries will as well. Hopefully if we haven't killed everyone we will someday welcome them back into contributing to future scientific endeavors.

Prison Bitch
04-30-2013, 09:22 AM
One of the primary reasons the US rating is science has fallen from #1 to 37th place is due to the meddling of religion. .


One of the more bizarre, and humorous ,things I've read in quite some time.

Dave Lane
04-30-2013, 09:25 AM
One of the more bizarre, and humorous ,things I've read in quite some time.

OK lets hear your reasons.

Prison Bitch
04-30-2013, 09:49 AM
OK lets hear your reasons.

Much larger percentage of our population is recent immigrant, with low academic experience. Drags down the overall average. Quite simple really.


Your explanation is easy to refute because America has gotten less religious over the past 50 years ,not more.

Fish
04-30-2013, 09:52 AM
While it's sorta fun to laugh at the Daves of the world, it's not remotely funny that they're now infiltrating the armed forces and trying to infect our troops with this garbage. They crammed gays down their throats and incompetent women in the combat units. The military is the last vestige of honor in America that's left, but soon that'll be gone. Sacrificed at the PC altar. Sad what happened to this once-great nation.

Dey're infectin our troops with teh gay! Ohh noes! Run away, or you'll get some on you!

LMAO....

mikey23545
04-30-2013, 09:54 AM
You seem to have trouble conflating rights with beliefs.

Religious beliefs are not a right now?

Truly astounding work you liberals are doing in the field of constitutional law.

Dave Lane
04-30-2013, 10:34 AM
Much larger percentage of our population is recent immigrant, with low academic experience. Drags down the overall average. Quite simple really.


Your explanation is easy to refute because America has gotten less religious over the past 50 years ,not more.

So dem damned wetbacks?

And no religion was at a low in the 70's when science was high, re-surged and science scores dropped.

Dave Lane
04-30-2013, 10:37 AM
Much larger percentage of our population is recent immigrant, with low academic experience. Drags down the overall average. Quite simple really.


Your explanation is easy to refute because America has gotten less religious over the past 50 years ,not more.

And the US alone is having a huge surge of religious fundamentalism (hi there prisonbitch) other 1st world countries are dropping religion is a huge way, and progressing beyond us in science.

Chief Faithful
04-30-2013, 10:45 AM
The fact that you equate being gay with being an alcoholic is precisely why these organizations are labeled as hate groups.



Read again, I am showing how the logic used against FRC was flawed and by using that logic anyone can reach ridiculous conclusions my example being AA. Yes, how I equate being gay with being an alcoholic is ridiculous. Calling FRC a hate group is equally ridiculous.

Now to my original point, the only reason people are reaching these type of ridiculous conclusions is for the reason previously stated, "people on each side of this debate demand that you not only disagree with but disdain the other as crazy or evil. The rhetoric of our current culture is deeply divided, intense and even hysterical. Nobody is interested in logical ideas or reason only to denounce the other side."

Chief Faithful
04-30-2013, 10:59 AM
Is Westboro Baptist Church a hate group?

Depends on how you define a hate group. At least in this example you have a group whose beliefs result in action against homosexuals. FRC does not attack homosexuals instead it defends its Biblical definitions of marriage and family. I would list Westboro as a group driven by hate, but is not criminal. Most Christians denounce the actions and beliefs held within Westboro.

Chief Faithful
04-30-2013, 11:07 AM
And the US alone is having a huge surge of religious fundamentalism (hi there prisonbitch) other 1st world countries are dropping religion is a huge way, and progressing beyond us in science.

Actually, religious fundamentalism is growing everywhere, even Europe. South Korea in 1960 was only 1% Christian and is now reaching 40%. Christian fundamentalism is even growing in the Middle East in reaction to 911. The more government tries to oppress it in China the faster it grows. That surge you speak of is not just America it is world wide.

Comrade Crapski
04-30-2013, 11:10 AM
Today, I read one thing and wrote another, both of which address Leftist hatred for Christianity, even though modern Christianity and genuine Judaism (as opposed to the hard Leftism that masquerades as “reform Judaism”) are the most humane, civilizing forces the world has ever seen. With their focus on justice and grace, they rid the world of slavery, ended child labor, advanced women’s status and, in Israel’s case, fought a 60-year war without sinking to the level of her enemies. But the Left truly hates them and seeks to undermine them at every turn.

http://www.bookwormroom.com/2013/04/29/the-reason-that-liberals-hate-christianity-but-ignore-islam/

Brock
04-30-2013, 11:15 AM
You don't have to be able to have a logical discussion with people to tolerate their opinions.

Then I guess he should not have mentioned having a logical discussion.

Comrade Crapski
04-30-2013, 11:18 AM
other 1st world countries are progressing beyond us in science.

LMAO

Back that up with some examples or a link, Loon.

patteeu
04-30-2013, 11:35 AM
Then I guess he should not have mentioned having a logical discussion.

Point taken.

But he wasn't talking about a logical discussion between the thoughtless, emotional people that make up the extremes on both sides. He was talking about the sometimes hard to recognize group on either side of the issue that is willing to talk about the issue logically. If you're saying that you can't have a logical discussion with anyone who is a religious believer, then you're wrong and you're a bigot. I don't think that's what you're saying though.

Prison Bitch
04-30-2013, 12:00 PM
And the US alone is having a huge surge of religious fundamentalism (hi there prisonbitch) .


Prove that.

Comrade Crapski
04-30-2013, 12:04 PM
Prove that.

Dave Loon is a dimwit. He has a chemistry set (ages 12 and up) and he thinks he's some sort of scientist.

Chief Faithful
04-30-2013, 12:11 PM
Point taken.

But he wasn't talking about a logical discussion between the thoughtless, emotional people that make up the extremes on both sides. He was talking about the sometimes hard to recognize group on either side of the issue that is willing to talk about the issue logically. If you're saying that you can't have a logical discussion with anyone who is a religious believer, then you're wrong and you're a bigot. I don't think that's what you're saying though.

By "he" are you speaking of me? Is so, :clap:

Prison Bitch
04-30-2013, 12:12 PM
Today, I read one thing and wrote another, both of which address Leftist hatred for Christianity, even though modern Christianity and genuine Judaism (as opposed to the hard Leftism that masquerades as “reform Judaism”) are the most humane, civilizing forces the world has ever seen. With their focus on justice and grace, they rid the world of slavery, ended child labor, advanced women’s status and, in Israel’s case, fought a 60-year war without sinking to the level of her enemies. But the Left truly hates them and seeks to undermine them at every turn.

http://www.bookwormroom.com/2013/04/29/the-reason-that-liberals-hate-christianity-but-ignore-islam/


The biggest reason is that Libs have so little contact with islam they don't think about it. People always prioritize their political concerns based on what it means to them personally. Rare is the person who thinks globally or about other people's lives. Libs have a loony set of beliefs and they don't encounter Muslims very often (certainly not in any position of authority or influence here in The States) so they don't worry about them.

Occasionally you'll have the unsurprising Islamic terror attack here, and they will continue intermittently. But things always go back to normal and they'll resume their Christophobia in no time.

patteeu
04-30-2013, 12:22 PM
By "he" are you speaking of me? Is so, :clap:

Yes, sir.

Brock
04-30-2013, 12:58 PM
Point taken.

But he wasn't talking about a logical discussion between the thoughtless, emotional people that make up the extremes on both sides. He was talking about the sometimes hard to recognize group on either side of the issue that is willing to talk about the issue logically. If you're saying that you can't have a logical discussion with anyone who is a religious believer, then you're wrong and you're a bigot. I don't think that's what you're saying though.

This what usually passes for logical discussion about gay people with religious people:

Them: i don't support gay marriage or normalization of gay relationships or acceptance of gay people.

Me: why?

Them: Leviticus. Hellfire, etc.

The discussion ends there for me. I don't waste my time with antiquated hebrew gobbledygook.

patteeu
04-30-2013, 01:00 PM
This what usually passes for logical discussion about gay people with religious people:

Them: i don't support gay marriage or normalization of gay relationships or acceptance of gay people.

Me: why?

Them: Leviticus. Hellfire, etc.

The discussion ends there for me. I don't waste my time with antiquated hebrew gobbledygook.

That's fine. I think there are others who object to things like same sex marriage on religious grounds who are more logical than that though.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-30-2013, 01:12 PM
That's fine. I think there are others who object to things like same sex marriage on religious grounds who are more logical than that though.

Then there are Christians like me who think it doesn't matter if you want to marry a horse you can if you like. The government should have no involvement in your marriage.

cosmo20002
04-30-2013, 01:13 PM
That's fine. I think there are others who object to things like same sex marriage on religious grounds who are more logical than that though.

Impossible. If you're objecting on religious grounds, that's pretty much the extent of the argument. Of course, the non-religious objections are pretty ridiculous as well--it's a threat to traditional marriage!

Dave Lane
04-30-2013, 01:14 PM
Then there are Christians like me who think it doesn't matter if you want to marry a horse you can if you like. The government should have no involvement in your marriage.

Good job, well other than maybe the horse thing.

cosmo20002
04-30-2013, 01:14 PM
Then there are Christians like me who think it doesn't matter if you want to marry a horse you can if you like. The government should have no involvement in your marriage.

Actually, you might be the only one in that group, Christian or not.

Brock
04-30-2013, 01:37 PM
That's fine. I think there are others who object to things like same sex marriage on religious grounds who are more logical than that though.

I've yet to encounter one.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-30-2013, 01:42 PM
Good job, well other than maybe the horse thing.

That was a reference to Caligula nothing more.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-30-2013, 01:43 PM
Actually, you might be the only one in that group, Christian or not.

Good to see you would take that statement literally. :spock:

cosmo20002
04-30-2013, 01:48 PM
Good to see you would take that statement literally. :spock:

It's not like it would be the weirdest thing you've ever said.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-30-2013, 01:48 PM
It's not like it would be the weirdest thing you've ever said.

What would that be?

cosmo20002
04-30-2013, 01:54 PM
What would that be?

The weirdest? That's a good question. I'm really going to have to research that and get back to you. So many to choose from...

Chief Faithful
04-30-2013, 01:55 PM
Then there are Christians like me who think it doesn't matter if you want to marry a horse you can if you like. The government should have no involvement in your marriage.

I want to say me to, except that horse thing throws me off.

patteeu
04-30-2013, 02:23 PM
Impossible. If you're objecting on religious grounds, that's pretty much the extent of the argument. Of course, the non-religious objections are pretty ridiculous as well--it's a threat to traditional marriage!

You're outing yourself as a member of the extreme pro same sex marriage group that doesn't want to have a logical discussion.

cosmo20002
04-30-2013, 02:46 PM
You're outing yourself as a member of the extreme pro same sex marriage group that doesn't want to have a logical discussion.

Unlike some other issues where I might disagree, I really can't see any honest and/or logical reason to deny govt-sanctioned marriage to gays.

Ultra Peanut
04-30-2013, 03:02 PM
http://www.wnd.com/images/wrightfoxnews.jpg

Ugh, I hate people whose horribly twisted words are proven correct.

LiveSteam
04-30-2013, 03:28 PM
Unlike some other issues where I might disagree, I really can't see any honest and/or logical reason to deny govt-sanctioned marriage to gays.

You disagreeing with gays & government. Not in this life

cosmo20002
04-30-2013, 03:33 PM
You disagreeing with gays & government. Not in this life

Well, the govt doesn't recognize gay marriage, so I guess I disagree with the govt. And I already disagree with you on lots of stuff.

Prison Bitch
04-30-2013, 03:58 PM
Well, the govt doesn't recognize gay marriage, so I guess I disagree with the govt. And I already disagree with you on lots of stuff.

I think he's saying you're a leftist straight down the line, therefore it's really laughable when you (of all people) attack others as being "unreasonable". You can see the point being made.

cosmo20002
04-30-2013, 04:09 PM
I think he's saying you're a leftist straight down the line, therefore it's really laughable when you (of all people) attack others as being "unreasonable". You can see the point being made.

Gee, thanks for the translation. As usual, both of you are wrong. However, you should continue to follow him around explaining what he means because usually it is incomprehensible gibberish.

Aries Walker
04-30-2013, 04:32 PM
And the US alone is having a huge surge of religious fundamentalism (hi there prisonbitch) other 1st world countries are dropping religion is a huge way, and progressing beyond us in science.
It's not a surge - we've always had a large contingent of religious fundamentalism, dating back to Plymouth Rock. If anything, we've been becoming significantly less religious since about the 1960's.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-08-13/national/35491519_1_new-atheism-atheist-groups-new-atheists

LMAO

Back that up with some examples or a link, Loon.
However, we are lagging behind in science - 17th in this study, right behind Hungary.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading

LiveSteam
04-30-2013, 04:41 PM
Gee, thanks for the translation. As usual, both of you are wrong. However, you should continue to follow him around explaining what he means because usually it is incomprehensible gibberish.

Is that incomprehensible gibberish dripping off your chin?

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-30-2013, 09:26 PM
Religious beliefs are not a right now?

Truly astounding work you liberals are doing in the field of constitutional law.

Jesus Christ, you're an idiot.

Being a pro-life Evangelical Christian is a choice. It's also a belief. Being gay in an immutable part of your personhood.

All should be protected, but they aren't identical.

I can't believe I have to explain this to you.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-30-2013, 09:30 PM
Oh, but of course. Liberals have "beliefs", but conservatives have "hate". Dude, can you come up with some new material here? This one's been wayyyy played out already.

Where did I say that?

Disparaging unchangeable parts of someone's personhood is an entirely different activity than critiquing their chosen beliefs.

When you enter a discussion with a gun-owner, Tea-Partier, et. al you can ask them "Why do you hold those beliefs?"

When you enter a discussion with a gay person, only ignorant buffoons would ask, "Why are you gay?"

Prison Bitch
05-01-2013, 09:51 AM
When you enter a discussion with a gun-owner, Tea-Partier, et. al you can ask them "Why do you hold those beliefs?"

When you enter a discussion with a gay person, only ignorant buffoons would ask, "Why are you gay?"


Yeah, I'm sure you politely ask rightists "Why do you hold those beliefs"? Wanting to truly understand them, as you formulate your yet-unformulated opinion on the subject and the adherents. Yep! Suuuuuure you do. I've seen nothing but tolerance and open-minded info-seeking from Libs.

Prison Bitch
05-01-2013, 11:19 AM
Breaking: Pentagon Confirms May Court Martial Soldiers Who Share Christian Faith--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Email ArticlePrint Article
Send a Tip by Ken Klukowski 1 May 2013, 8:12 AM PDT 503post a comment View Discussion

The Pentagon has released a statement confirming that soldiers could be prosecuted for promoting their faith: "Religious proselytization is not permitted within the Department of Defense...Court martials and non-judicial punishments are decided on a case-by-case basis...”.




http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/05/01/Breaking-Pentagon-Confirms-Will-Court-Martial-Soldiers-Who-Share-Christian-Faith

cosmo20002
05-01-2013, 11:22 AM
Yeah, I'm sure you politely ask rightists "Why do you hold those beliefs"? Wanting to truly understand them, as you formulate your yet-unformulated opinion on the subject and the adherents. Yep! Suuuuuure you do. I've seen nothing but tolerance and open-minded info-seeking from Libs.

Sometimes, you don't really need to ask.

KILLER_CLOWN
05-01-2013, 11:59 AM
Breaking: Pentagon Confirms May Court Martial Soldiers Who Share Christian Faith--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Email ArticlePrint Article
Send a Tip by Ken Klukowski 1 May 2013, 8:12 AM PDT 503post a comment View Discussion

The Pentagon has released a statement confirming that soldiers could be prosecuted for promoting their faith: "Religious proselytization is not permitted within the Department of Defense...Court martials and non-judicial punishments are decided on a case-by-case basis...”.




http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/05/01/Breaking-Pentagon-Confirms-Will-Court-Martial-Soldiers-Who-Share-Christian-Faith

Tell someone about Jesus, head to the stockade. So now religion is don't ask, don't tell?

cosmo20002
05-01-2013, 12:08 PM
Tell someone about Jesus, head to the stockade.

I'd say they are getting off easy. Anyway, "Religious proselytization is not permitted within the Department of Defense...Court martials and non-judicial punishments are decided on a case-by-case basis...”.

When they punish someone for mentioning Jesus, let us know.
But you just know that they are probably encouraging Islamic practices and maybe even making it mandatory--right? Right?

Prison Bitch
05-01-2013, 12:49 PM
[QUOTE=cosmo20002;9648859]I'd say they are getting off easy. [QUOTE]



nlm

cosmo20002
05-01-2013, 12:52 PM
[QUOTE=cosmo20002;9648859]I'd say they are getting off easy. [QUOTE]



nlm

For some reason, I don't imagine you as someone so easily offended, Prison Bitch.

Frazod
05-01-2013, 12:53 PM
It's always interesting seeing the joy with which cosmo supports absolutely anything that tears down traditional American values.

Perusing DC is like visiting an online zoo. At least you can't smell the poo the monkeys are flinging.

cosmo20002
05-01-2013, 12:57 PM
It's always interesting seeing the joy with which cosmo supports absolutely anything that tears down traditional American values.


Such as?

JFC, how many posts have I read of yours lately about how the Boston Marathon bomber doesn't deserve rights, should just be executed without trial, etc? What a hypocrite.

Perusing DC is like visiting an online zoo. At least you can't smell the poo the monkeys are flinging.

...says the guy who just ran a "Biggest Douche" contest.

Prison Bitch
05-01-2013, 12:57 PM
It's always interesting seeing the joy with which cosmo supports absolutely anything that tears down traditional American values..

But he's not a liberal on every issue. He's conservative on some. He just won't tell you what they are.

Frazod
05-01-2013, 01:02 PM
Such as?

JFC, how many posts have I read of yours lately about how the Boston Marathon bomber doesn't deserve rights, should just be executed without trial, etc? What a hypocrite.

I guess you embrace foreign fucking welfare scum who bomb American citizens, right? Does it piss you off that he's being held without bail? Fucking clown.

...says the guy who just ran a "Biggest Douche" contest.

Perhaps if you stop confining your despicable cocksuckery to DC, you'll advance farther next year.

cosmo20002
05-01-2013, 01:12 PM
I guess you embrace foreign ****ing welfare scum who bomb American citizens, right? Does it piss you off that he's being held without bail? ****ing clown.


An American citizen committing an act in America I think is entitled to the normal Consitutional rights and protections. All of your ranting about your rights and the Obama dictatorship really means squat, as you've shown what a phony you really are.

Yeah, he's a scumbag. And if you really mean the shit you say, you are far worse than all of those Nazi gun grabbers you're always going on about.

Comrade Crapski
05-01-2013, 01:14 PM
Oh, those poor persecuted christians.

Oh those poor persecuted queers.

:deevee:

Frazod
05-01-2013, 01:14 PM
An American citizen committing an act in America I think is entitled to the normal Consitutional rights and protections. All of your ranting about your rights and the Obama dictatorship really means squat, as you've shown what a phony you really are.

Yeah, he's a scumbag. And if you really mean the shit you say, you are far worse than all of those Nazi gun grabbers you're always going on about.

He's an American citizen in much the same way you're an actual man.

PunkinDrublic
05-01-2013, 01:14 PM
I read through this entire thread and just became that much stupider for doing so.

Comrade Crapski
05-01-2013, 01:17 PM
I read through this entire thread and just became that much stupider for doing so.

I find it hard to believe you could possibly get any stupider.

PunkinDrublic
05-01-2013, 01:20 PM
I find it hard to believe you could possibly get any stupider.

Thanks man I was looking for validation from simpletons like yourself.

KILLER_CLOWN
05-01-2013, 01:48 PM
I'd say they are getting off easy. Anyway, "Religious proselytization is not permitted within the Department of Defense...Court martials and non-judicial punishments are decided on a case-by-case basis...”.

When they punish someone for mentioning Jesus, let us know.
But you just know that they are probably encouraging Islamic practices and maybe even making it mandatory--right? Right?

Well if you tell someone about Jesus they just might convert yes? and no to the 2nd point.

cosmo20002
05-01-2013, 02:58 PM
Well if you tell someone about Jesus they just might convert yes? and no to the 2nd point.

Well, its kind of like having a rule against "inappropriate" or "unprofessional" behavior. You can't always define every last thing. As a practical matter, is this really even an issue? Its not like some new rule was announced or a bunch of people are being prosecuted. The terribly-written Breitbart article says the "The Pentagon has released a statement confirming" the rule. So, someone asked and they responded.

Xanathol
05-01-2013, 03:53 PM
OK lets hear your reasons.You.

As for the Pentagon move, I believe each member should be marched to the front of the lines in the middle of a battle and let them reassess their stance here.

Brock
05-01-2013, 03:59 PM
You.

As for the Pentagon move, I believe each member should be marched to the front of the lines in the middle of a battle and let them reassess their stance here.

Think that will make them believe fairy tales?

Prison Bitch
05-01-2013, 04:01 PM
Well, its kind of like having a rule against "inappropriate" or "unprofessional" behavior. You can't always define every last thing. As a practical matter, is this really even an issue? Its not like some new rule was announced or a bunch of people are being prosecuted. The terribly-written Breitbart article says the "The Pentagon has released a statement confirming" the rule. So, someone asked and they responded.


Hopefully anyone who so much as brought up Obama's name will also be court-martialed. No more campaigning from the barracks. No Obama tee shirts, no cheers when he speaks, no "proselytizing". Anyone who openly supports that man? 30 days in the Hole.

cosmo20002
05-01-2013, 04:42 PM
Hopefully anyone who so much as brought up Obama's name will also be court-martialed. No more campaigning from the barracks. No Obama tee shirts, no cheers when he speaks, no "proselytizing". Anyone who openly supports that man? 30 days in the Hole.

Makes sense. :facepalm:

Fish
05-01-2013, 04:47 PM
You.

As for the Pentagon move, I believe each member should be marched to the front of the lines in the middle of a battle and let them reassess their stance here.

Right. Because if there's anything religion is good at, it's using fear to control the behavior and decisions of others.

Dave Lane
05-01-2013, 05:03 PM
Breaking: Pentagon Confirms May Court Martial Soldiers Who Share Christian Faith--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Email ArticlePrint Article
Send a Tip by Ken Klukowski 1 May 2013, 8:12 AM PDT 503post a comment View Discussion

The Pentagon has released a statement confirming that soldiers could be prosecuted for promoting their faith: "Religious proselytization is not permitted within the Department of Defense...Court martials and non-judicial punishments are decided on a case-by-case basis...”.




http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/05/01/Breaking-Pentagon-Confirms-Will-Court-Martial-Soldiers-Who-Share-Christian-Faith

What ever happened to burning at the stake or boiling in oil?

The pussification of the Army continues.

Xanathol
05-01-2013, 05:41 PM
Think that will make them believe fairy tales?
Why did you bring evolution into this?
Right. Because if there's anything religion is good at, it's using fear to control the behavior and decisions of others.
Getting out from your mom's basement and experiencing life - not just reading about it - tends to bring about a different viewpoint. Especially in the field of battle.

Cephalic Trauma
05-01-2013, 06:14 PM
Why did you bring evolution into this?

Getting out from your mom's basement and experiencing life - not just reading about it - tends to bring about a different viewpoint. Especially in the field of battle.

Yes, the daily practical applications of evolution are fairy tales.

Statements like this one were permissible a century ago, but not today when the information is at your fingertips. Failing to grasp said information is either sheer stupidity or deafness to reason.

You will reap the benefits of modern medicine while laughing at the principles those applications were based on and derived from.

LiveSteam
05-01-2013, 06:37 PM
Yes, the daily practical applications of evolution are fairy tales.

Statements like this one were permissible a century ago, but not today when the information is at your fingertips. Failing to grasp said information is either sheer stupidity or deafness to reason.

You will reap the benefits of modern medicine while laughing at the principles those applications were based on and derived from.

Rainbows & rim jobs right princess?

'Hamas' Jenkins
05-01-2013, 06:44 PM
Yeah, I'm sure you politely ask rightists "Why do you hold those beliefs"? Wanting to truly understand them, as you formulate your yet-unformulated opinion on the subject and the adherents. Yep! Suuuuuure you do. I've seen nothing but tolerance and open-minded info-seeking from Libs.

Thank you for a classical definition of irony.

Cephalic Trauma
05-01-2013, 06:54 PM
Rainbows & rim jobs right princess?

You're clueless. Try to pose an intelligent rebuttal. Just try one.

LiveSteam
05-01-2013, 06:56 PM
You're clueless. Try to pose an intelligent rebuttal. Just try one.

LMAO

Cephalic Trauma
05-01-2013, 06:59 PM
LMAO

Wouldn't expect any more from ya, special guy:thumb:.

LiveSteam
05-01-2013, 07:01 PM
Wouldn't expect any more from ya, special guy:thumb:.

Poser

King_Chief_Fan
05-02-2013, 11:51 AM
Think that will make them believe fairy tales?

the ones who believe won't be saying....."uh, what if I am wrong?"

Cephalic Trauma
05-02-2013, 12:03 PM
the ones who believe won't be saying....."uh, what if I am wrong?"

Then I will show "Him" what I've done to serve "His" people. And tell "Him" he didn't give me anything to go off of besides a bunch of loonies touting a book that utterly defies the natural laws of "His" world. And that I didn't simply passively praise "Him" based on subjective observations two thousand years before my time, but I tried to understand the natural mysteries "He put in place" in order to understand this world.

And I used the logical brain "He" gave me to accomplish that. If I am wrong, of course.

King_Chief_Fan
05-02-2013, 12:10 PM
Then I will show "Him" what I've done to serve "His" people. And tell "Him" he didn't give me anything to go off of besides a bunch of loonies touting a book that utterly defies the natural laws of "His" world. And that I didn't simply passively praise "Him" based on subjective observations two thousand years before my time, but I tried to understand the natural mysteries "He put in place" in order to understand this world.

And I used the logical brain "He" gave me to accomplish that. If I am wrong, of course.

If your choice is to ignore and not believe in Christ, your "telling Him" won't do you any good.

What I like about you is your commitment to humanity and doing the service of treating people and their illness. That is great.
But there is an illness of the soul that only God can cure.
I pray that somehow this becomes a reality for you.

cosmo20002
05-02-2013, 12:15 PM
If your choice is to ignore and not believe in Christ, your "telling Him" won't do you any good.



So, he doesn't care about how you've lived your life? It is also necessary to praise him while you're doing it? Kind of sounds like a jerk.

King_Chief_Fan
05-02-2013, 12:30 PM
So, he doesn't care about how you've lived your life? It is also necessary to praise him while you're doing it? Kind of sounds like a jerk.
Ephesians 2: 8-10
<SUP> </SUP>For <SUP class=crossreference value='(A (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/#cen-ESV-29221A))'></SUP>by grace you have been saved <SUP class=crossreference value='(B (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/#cen-ESV-29221B))'></SUP>through faith. And this is <SUP class=crossreference value='(C (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/#cen-ESV-29221C))'></SUP>not your own doing; <SUP class=crossreference value='(D (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/#cen-ESV-29221D))'></SUP>it is the gift of God, <SUP class=versenum>9 </SUP><SUP class=crossreference value='(E (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/#cen-ESV-29222E))'></SUP>not a result of works, <SUP class=crossreference value='(F (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/#cen-ESV-29222F))'></SUP>so that no one may boast. <SUP class=versenum>10 </SUP>For <SUP class=crossreference value='(G (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/#cen-ESV-29223G))'></SUP>we are his workmanship, <SUP class=crossreference value='(H (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/#cen-ESV-29223H))'></SUP>created in Christ Jesus <SUP class=crossreference value='(I (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/#cen-ESV-29223I))'></SUP>for good works, <SUP class=crossreference value='(J (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/#cen-ESV-29223J))'></SUP>which God prepared beforehand, <SUP class=crossreference value='(K (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/#cen-ESV-29223K))'></SUP>that we should walk in them.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
good works are great, but by themselves, you can't be saved

Comrade Crapski
05-02-2013, 01:02 PM
The officer accused the “Christian Right” of “engaging in the crudest type of name-calling, describing LGBT people as ‘perverts” with ‘filthy habits’

:hmmm:

I'm not sure I see where the problem is.

Prison Bitch
05-02-2013, 01:16 PM
And tell "Him" he didn't give me anything to go off of besides a bunch of loonies touting a book that utterly defies the natural laws of "His" world. .

80-85% of the country is Christian. So you seem to be arguing that the vast majority of your own countrymen are crazy.

Comrade Crapski
05-02-2013, 01:21 PM
80-85% of the country is Christian. So you seem to be arguing that the vast majority of your own countrymen are crazy.

Just the ones who stand post and keep his soft candy ass safe at night.

Cephalic Trauma
05-02-2013, 01:31 PM
80-85% of the country is Christian. So you seem to be arguing that the vast majority of your own countrymen are crazy.

I don't know or care if that's right, but most scientists and nobel prize winners are certainly not christian. Our nation's most brilliant minds are breaking away from brainwashing religions and starting to think for themselves.

Comrade Crapski
05-02-2013, 01:36 PM
I don't know or care if that's right, but most scientists and nobel prize winners are certainly not christian.

What are they then?

this should be good. LMAO

Bump
05-02-2013, 01:37 PM
If your choice is to ignore and not believe in Christ, your "telling Him" won't do you any good.

What I like about you is your commitment to humanity and doing the service of treating people and their illness. That is great.
But there is an illness of the soul that only God can cure.
I pray that somehow this becomes a reality for you.

but doesn't it seem kinda fucked up that god is going to make sure people get tortured forever for not believing in something which provides no evidence or any logical reason?

I mean, a man can be a good person all his life. Dhali Lama is a good example, according to this book. Dhali Lama is going to get TORTURED forever, burned for eternity. The Dahli Lama! He's a good dude.

But a guy who rapes babies all of his life, like Jerry Sandusky, for example. All he has to do to ensure his eternal bliss is say "God, I love your son and take him into my heart" and he won't get tortured like the Dhali Lama will.

King_Chief_Fan
05-02-2013, 01:38 PM
I don't know or care if that's right, but most scientists and nobel prize winners are certainly not christian. Our nation's most brilliant minds are breaking away from brainwashing religions and starting to think for themselves.

You do know that there are scientists and doctors who have an unwaivering faith and belief in Chirst, don't you?

Bump
05-02-2013, 01:38 PM
and rape isn't a ten commandment, RAPE!

But say the guys name with a shitty attitude.....

-louis CK

King_Chief_Fan
05-02-2013, 01:43 PM
but doesn't it seem kinda ****ed up that god is going to make sure people get tortured forever for not believing in something which provides no evidence or any logical reason?

I mean, a man can be a good person all his life. Dhali Lama is a good example, according to this book. Dhali Lama is going to get TORTURED forever, burned for eternity. The Dahli Lama! He's a good dude.

But a guy who rapes babies all of his life, like Jerry Sandusky, for example. All he has to do to ensure his eternal bliss is say "God, I love your son and take him into my heart" and he won't get tortured like the Dhali Lama will. God created the only way to have eternal life so it doesn't matter your past sins or your past accolades. You can think it is goofed up but why would God allow those who do not believe or profess and praise Him, to be in eternity with Him
Besides, if you don't believe in Him why would one be so put out that they couldn't spend eternity with Him?

Brock
05-02-2013, 02:04 PM
80-85% of the country is Christian. So you seem to be arguing that the vast majority of your own countrymen are crazy.

Its declining. Say bye!

Prison Bitch
05-02-2013, 02:06 PM
Its declining. Say bye!

He was talking about the past, and present experiences he's had with Christians. Therefore your comment here doesn't fit the conversation whatsoever.

Brock
05-02-2013, 02:10 PM
He was talking about the past, and present experiences he's had with Christians. Therefore your comment here doesn't fit the conversation whatsoever.

You were not talking about the past when you said 80-85 percent of americans are christian, so no, my comment addressing that is very much in step. Now go get your shinebox.

Cephalic Trauma
05-02-2013, 02:12 PM
What are they then?

this should be good. LMAO

Rostafarian

Cephalic Trauma
05-02-2013, 02:15 PM
You do know that there are scientists and doctors who have an unwaivering faith and belief in Chirst, don't you?

Yep.

And they're free to believe what they want. But those who study the natural world as we know it tend to defend the honor of data and evidence over subjective beliefs to form the minds of others.

Sorry.

BucEyedPea
05-02-2013, 02:28 PM
Yep.

And they're free to believe what they want. But those who study the natural world as we know it tend to defend the honor of data and evidence over subjective beliefs to form the minds of others.

Sorry.

And many believers believe that nature's God/god created the natural world with it's evolution and other laws. There need be no conflict here.

King_Chief_Fan
05-02-2013, 02:30 PM
Yep.

And they're free to believe what they want. But those who study the natural world as we know it tend to defend the honor of data and evidence over subjective beliefs to form the minds of others.

Sorry.

well, sounds like you and I won't be able to have that patient/doctor relationship...I like a doctor that is all prayed up and isn't afraid to pray for a little extra support and help when providing medical service or good bed side manner when there is bad news.

no offense of course

Prison Bitch
05-02-2013, 02:30 PM
You were not talking about the past when you said 80-85 percent of americans are christian, so no, my comment addressing that is very much in step. Now go get your shinebox.

Here, let me speak slowly so your slow brain may follow. Ceph says that the loonies around him cannot be trusted. I inform him that 80-85% of the US is "loonie". You respond with some tangent about the future.


That said, isn't it so odd he views all those around him as "loonies"?

Fish
05-02-2013, 03:00 PM
well, sounds like you and I won't be able to have that patient/doctor relationship...I like a doctor that is all prayed up and isn't afraid to pray for a little extra support and help when providing medical service or good bed side manner when there is bad news.

no offense of course

I bet if you were in an emergency, you wouldn't give two shits about the religion(or lack thereof) of the doctor saving your family member. Desperation often leads one to spiritual beliefs, but it can also cause one to throw those spiritual beliefs out the window in less than a heart beat.

I've often found that interesting about religion.

listopencil
05-02-2013, 03:34 PM
It's a good policy:

pros·e·ly·tize (prhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/obreve.gifshttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif-lhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gif-thttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/imacr.gifzhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/lprime.gif)v. pros·e·ly·tized, pros·e·ly·tiz·ing, pros·e·ly·tiz·es
v.intr.1. To induce someone to convert to one's own religious faith.
2. To induce someone to join one's own political party or to espouse one's doctrine.

v.tr. To convert (a person) from one belief, doctrine, cause, or faith to another.

Comrade Crapski
05-02-2013, 03:46 PM
We need to really get after proselyting Christians so moonbats can promote anal sex more efficiently.

listopencil
05-02-2013, 03:51 PM
As soon as those Catholic priests stop fucking little boys, right?

patteeu
05-02-2013, 03:55 PM
I bet if you were in an emergency, you wouldn't give two shits about the religion(or lack thereof) of the doctor saving your family member. Desperation often leads one to spiritual beliefs, but it can also cause one to throw those spiritual beliefs out the window in less than a heart beat.

I've often found that interesting about religion.

Are you under the impression that devout religious folks generally only want to be doctored by people who share their faith tradition? I don't think that's real outside of a possible tiny minority. And I'm talking about routine care as well as emergency care.

Fish
05-02-2013, 03:56 PM
Are you under the impression that devout religious folks generally only want to be doctored by people who share their faith tradition? I don't think that's real outside of a possible tiny minority. And I'm talking about routine care as well as emergency care.

No, of course not.

listopencil
05-02-2013, 03:57 PM
Are you under the impression that devout religious folks generally only want to be doctored by people who share their faith tradition? I don't think that's real outside of a possible tiny minority. And I'm talking about routine care as well as emergency care.

Read the post that his was in response to.

Comrade Crapski
05-02-2013, 03:58 PM
As soon as those Catholic priests stop ****ing little boys, right?

Oh, you got me. :rolleyes:

patteeu
05-02-2013, 04:01 PM
There's nothing wrong with this policy on it's face. It all depends on how it is interpreted. I don't think there's any reason to be outraged until some of the concerns expressed in the OP article actually materialize.

This seems like a case of Obama's innate anti-Americanism causing people to expect the worst from him.

listopencil
05-02-2013, 04:02 PM
Oh, you got me. :rolleyes:

It's not hard. You do tend to ramble on in your mindless nonsense.

Comrade Crapski
05-02-2013, 04:02 PM
[B][SIZE="4"]
“Just want to ensure everyone is somewhat educated on some of the groups out there that do not share our Army Values,” read an email from Lt. Col. Jack Rich to three dozen subordinates at Fort Campbell in Kentucky.

I found a picture of Lt. Col Jack Rich...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H30220%2C_Wilhelm_Keitel.jpg/220px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H30220%2C_Wilhelm_Keitel.jpg
Hitlers 'yes-man'

patteeu
05-02-2013, 04:03 PM
Read the post that his was in response to.

My bad. I thought it was in response to his come-to-faith foxhole type comment earlier in the thread (unless I imagined that too).

Comrade Crapski
05-02-2013, 04:04 PM
It's not hard. You do tend to ramble on in your mindless nonsense.

Mindless?

I guess I can't be charged, convicted and sent off to re-education camp for thought crimes, then.

Comrade Crapski
05-02-2013, 04:05 PM
There's nothing wrong with this policy on it's face. It all depends on how it is interpreted.

Exactly. Sort of like the whole "workplace violence" moonbattery:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/06/military-growing-terrorist-target-lawmakers-warn/

Dave Lane
05-02-2013, 04:06 PM
the ones who believe won't be saying....."uh, what if I am wrong?"

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ODetOE6cbbc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Comrade Crapski
05-02-2013, 04:08 PM
Oh look, it's Dave Loon. Dave really, really, really REALLY REALLY hates Christians.

Dave's a big nut. :jester:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ODetOE6cbbc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Dave Lane
05-02-2013, 04:08 PM
80-85% of the country is Christian. So you seem to be arguing that the vast majority of your own countrymen are crazy.

Belief is crumbling by the day. You know it I know it. Its over for religion, its just a matter of when

Comrade Crapski
05-02-2013, 04:09 PM
Belief is crumbling by the day. You know it I know it. Its over for religion, its just a matter of when

LMAO

listopencil
05-02-2013, 04:12 PM
Mindless?

I guess I can't be charged, convicted and sent off to re-education camp for thought crimes, then.

Would you have a problem with a Muslim Drill Instructor attempting to convert recruits to Islam during Boot Camp?

Comrade Crapski
05-02-2013, 04:15 PM
Would you have a problem with a Muslim Drill Instructor attempting to convert recruits to Islam during Boot Camp?

:rolleyes:

This is BS and you know it.

listopencil
05-02-2013, 04:15 PM
:rolleyes:

This is BS and you know it.

You can't answer the question?

Comrade Crapski
05-02-2013, 04:18 PM
You can't answer the question?

You know I was starting to like you, but this is just run of the mill progressive dishonesty.

This aint about proselytizing which is NOT A PROBLEM in the military. It's about criticism of homosexuality.

Just curious, what branch of the service were you in?

If all the Christians left the military we couldn't even defend ourselves from Sweden or Pogo Pogo.

Muslims? Negligible contribution. Like, 00001. %

Comrade Crapski
05-02-2013, 04:20 PM
Army Email Labels Christian Ministries as “Domestic Hate Groups”

Brought to you by the same communist scumbag O-Bots who defined Hasan "ALLUHAH AKBAR!!!!!!!!!" Nidal's Fort Hood massacre as "work place violence".

patteeu
05-02-2013, 04:21 PM
Exactly. Sort of like the whole "workplace violence" moonbattery:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/06/military-growing-terrorist-target-lawmakers-warn/

The reluctance of this administration to be honest about the source of this violence is a travesty. Unfortunately, the Bush administration did some of that too, albeit to a less obscene level.

listopencil
05-02-2013, 04:23 PM
You know I was starting to like you, but this is just run of the mill progressive dishonesty.]

This aint about proselytizing which is NOT A PROBLEM in the military. It's about criticism of homosexuality.

Just curious, what branch of the service were you in?

If all the Christians left the military we couldn't even defend ourselves from Sweden or Pogo Pogo.

Muslims? Negligible contribution. Like, 00001. %

I was in the Navy. I witnessed proselytization done by those of rank. Some of them attempted to harass me for my lack of faith, in fact. Why are you afraid to answer the question?

listopencil
05-02-2013, 04:24 PM
Brought to you by the same communist scumbag O-Bots who defined Hasan "ALLUHAH AKBAR!!!!!!!!!" Nidal's Fort Hood massacre as "work place violence".

No, "they" didn't.

Prison Bitch
05-02-2013, 05:41 PM
You can't answer the question?

Your question is beyond stupid. The country is like 83-1% Christian vs Muslim. Of course they're not the same nor are they going to be thought of the same by the vast majority of the country.


Your comparison is about as stupid as someone asking if ArenaBall will get the same news coverage as the NFL. No idiot, it won't. Any other dumb questions I can answer?

listopencil
05-02-2013, 05:46 PM
Your question is beyond stupid. The country is like 83-1% Christian vs Muslim. Of course they're not the same nor are they going to be thought of the same by the vast majority of the country.


Your comparison is about as stupid as someone asking if ArenaBall will get the same news coverage as the NFL. No idiot, it won't. Any other dumb questions I can answer?

Not really. Your answer is profoundly ignorant. You ignore the actual issue that the DoD statement is addressing, and continue wrapping yourself in your delusions of persecution. No wonder you're afraid to give an honest answer. It would invalidate your bias. I do have one last thought that I will pose in the form of a question; do you consider yourself a bigot or a hypocrite in those rare moments of lucidity that I assume you enjoy?

Cephalic Trauma
05-02-2013, 05:53 PM
Not really. Your answer is profoundly ignorant. You ignore the actual issue that the DoD statement is addressing, and continue wrapping yourself in your delusions of persecution. No wonder you're afraid to give an honest answer. It would invalidate your bias. I do have one last thought that I will pose in the form of a question; do you consider yourself a bigot or a hypocrite in those rare moments of lucidity that I assume you enjoy?

Oh shit. Listo ftmfw.

Fish
05-02-2013, 05:55 PM
Your question is beyond stupid. The country is like 83-1% Christian vs Muslim. Of course they're not the same nor are they going to be thought of the same by the vast majority of the country.


Your comparison is about as stupid as someone asking if ArenaBall will get the same news coverage as the NFL. No idiot, it won't. Any other dumb questions I can answer?

Freedom of religion, but only for the 83% majority.....

:facepalm:

King_Chief_Fan
05-02-2013, 06:03 PM
I bet if you were in an emergency, you wouldn't give two shits about the religion(or lack thereof) of the doctor saving your family member. Desperation often leads one to spiritual beliefs, but it can also cause one to throw those spiritual beliefs out the window in less than a heart beat.

I've often found that interesting about religion.

well, you are right about that, but it wouldn't stop prayers being said for the doctor or me...and that isn't throwing spiritual beliefs out the window.

preference is one thing...practicality is another. God can still use a non-saved doctor if he wants to heal people and I am pretty sure He often does. In your example, you have to do what is practical.
But if Doc practices Voo-doo, No.

Prison Bitch
05-02-2013, 06:31 PM
Freedom of religion, but only for the 83% majority.....

:facepalm:

You seem to be confused: Congress can't establish a national religion, but the people can do whatever they want. That's what "freedom of religion" actually means. Does this help you understand more clearly?


Put it this way: your neighbors can build a church right across from your subdivision, and run it tax-free. And you can't take away their right. Constitution protects them all from folks like you.

Aries Walker
05-02-2013, 06:50 PM
First, a few quick bits of fact-checking.
80-85% of the country is Christian.
As of 2008, it was about 76%. http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/population.html

I don't know or care if that's right, but most scientists and nobel prize winners are certainly not christian. Our nation's most brilliant minds are breaking away from brainwashing religions and starting to think for themselves.
I have heard this insisted before, but have never seen it backed up. If you have a reputable source, you should post it.

The country is like 83-1% Christian vs Muslim.
Close. 76%, as I said above, vs. about 0.6% Muslim. Same source.

Cephalic Trauma
05-02-2013, 06:54 PM
First, a few quick bits of fact-checking.

As of 2008, it was about 76%. http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/population.html


I have heard this insisted before, but have never seen it backed up. If you have a reputable source, you should post it.


Close. 76%, as I said above, vs. about 0.6% Muslim. Same source.

http://www.pewforum.org/Science-and-Bioethics/Scientists-and-Belief.aspx

And the nature article I want has limited access.

Aries Walker
05-02-2013, 07:05 PM
Would you have a problem with a Muslim Drill Instructor attempting to convert recruits to Islam during Boot Camp?

:rolleyes: This is BS and you know it.
It's actually legit. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" means the US Government can't favor one religion over another, regardless of popularity. Therefore, if the Government (in this case, through the Army) says that its soldiers can't proselytize, it has to be equally applied to all religions and belief systems. If you want to support allowing it for members of one religion, that's fine, but you have to support allowing it to all, including Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Wicca, Scientology, and, if they really want to, Pastafarianism, the Jedi Order, and the worship of ancient Mithra and his golden bull. It's the equality, and the protection against the tyranny of the majority, on which our country was founded.

Aries Walker
05-02-2013, 07:09 PM
http://www.pewforum.org/Science-and-Bioethics/Scientists-and-Belief.aspx

And the nature article I want has limited access.
Well, it doesn't mention Nobel Prize Winners, but among scientists, it looks like about 30% are Christians, compared to about 75% for the country at large, and the Pew Center is certainly reputable. Well done.

Prison Bitch
05-02-2013, 07:11 PM
Nonsense. Congress makes all sorts of laws restricting religious behavior. They don't let Mormons practice polygamy, Rastas smoke pot or Voodoos sacrifice animals. Etc

Prison Bitch
05-02-2013, 07:14 PM
First, a few quick bits of fact-checking.

As of 2008, it was about 76%. http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/population.html


I have heard this insisted before, but have never seen it backed up. If you have a reputable source, you should post it.


Close. 76%, as I said above, vs. about 0.6% Muslim. Same source.

AbcNews poll in 2006 had it 83%. But I agree we are splitting hairs at these levels.

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=90356&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fsite%3D%26source%3Dhp%26ei%3D_g6DUdftM5Tq8gTr1YCQAg%26q%3 Dpercent%2Bamericans%2Bchristian%26oq%3Dpercent%2Bamericans%2Bchristian%26gs_l%3Dmobile-gws-hp.3..0j0i22i30l4.2760.9840.0.10461.31.22.2.7.7.1.290.2450.10j7j4.21.0...0.0...1c.1.12.mobile-gws-hp.c_aGB1Exx8Q

Cephalic Trauma
05-02-2013, 07:20 PM
Well, it doesn't mention Nobel Prize Winners, but among scientists, it looks like about 30% are Christians, compared to about 75% for the country at large, and the Pew Center is certainly reputable. Well done.

That's what the nature article addressed, but I can't access nature unless I'm at school unfortunately.

Aries Walker
05-02-2013, 07:21 PM
Nonsense. Congress makes all sorts of laws restricting religious behavior. They don't let Mormons practice polygamy, Rastas smoke pot or Voodoos sacrifice animals. Etc
Those are all activities which are illegal independent of the religious motives; along the same lines, if I start worshiping the ancient Aztec god of the night, it's still illegal for me to commit human sacrifice. However, proselytization, in and of itself, is totally legal.

Prison Bitch
05-02-2013, 07:26 PM
Those are all activities which are illegal independent of the religious motives; along the same lines, if I start worshiping the ancient Aztec god of the night, it's still illegal for me to commit human sacrifice. However, proselytization, in and of itself, is totally legal.

All true, but it raises the question of why it's illegal. And that argument becomes circular: because of the heavy Influence of the dominant religion which sets the rules on many of these things.

Aries Walker
05-02-2013, 07:39 PM
Why polygamy, smoking pot, and animal sacrifice are illegal? We could debate those, but they're not really the topic of this thread, I don't think. The OP (your OP) was about homosexuality and religious proselytization, neither of which are illegal, or in danger of becoming so any time soon.

I was responding to how, given your apparent approval of Christian proselytization in a division of the US Government, you shrugged off the question of whether it should be allowed for religions other than Christianity. I'd frankly like to hear the answer.

For the record, I think it should be disallowed for members of any belief system, for reasons which have nothing to do with homosexuality. If you're "at work" in a government installation (for example, a soldier on base), you're a representative of the government, and the separation of church and state should prevent you from trying to convert someone while in your Class A's. I have no idea how they would enforce this for any but the most egregious cases, and therefore instances like listopencil's Navy bosses giving him crap for not Tebowing every five minutes may go mostly unchecked, but I still think that should be the law here.

Prison Bitch
05-02-2013, 08:43 PM
First off, I myself would be annoyed by proselytizing. I don't advocate anyone doing it. I think criminalizing it is absurd. You can spot the difference I presume.

As to comparing Christianity to obscure religions: the numbers make any comparison instantly void. One could argue its an either/or deal which I suppose has some merit. I don't want a Muslim or Buddhist or even a Christian proselytizing me. But trying to stop the behavior of something 4/5 our country believes in and comparing it to te 1/60th who are Muslim is really dumb. Christian tradition is practically codified in our legal system in many ways (too numerous to even discuss here) whereas nobody pays a wit of attention to Muslims unless they're bombing someone.

aturnis
05-02-2013, 09:21 PM
Freedom of religion, but only for the 83% majority.....

:facepalm:

Our founding fathers would be ashamed.

aturnis
05-02-2013, 09:34 PM
First off, I myself would be annoyed by proselytizing. I don't advocate anyone doing it. I think criminalizing it is absurd. You can spot the difference I presume.

As to comparing Christianity to obscure religions: the numbers make any comparison instantly void. One could argue its an either/or deal which I suppose has some merit. I don't want a Muslim or Buddhist or even a Christian proselytizing me. But trying to stop the behavior of something 4/5 our country believes in and comparing it to te 1/60th who are Muslim is really dumb. Christian tradition is practically codified in our legal system in many ways (too numerous to even discuss here) whereas nobody pays a wit of attention to Muslims unless they're bombing someone.

Doesn't really matter what you think is really dumb. What is important is what is fair. That's the way I this intended to be. No amount of dancing you do will invalidate the question posed. Though the more you dance, the more we "get it".

Dave Lane
05-02-2013, 10:05 PM
You seem to be confused: Congress can't establish a national religion, but the people can do whatever they want. That's what "freedom of religion" actually means. Does this help you understand more clearly?


Put it this way: your neighbors can build a Mosque right across from your subdivision, and run it tax-free. And you can't take away their right. Constitution protects them all from folks like you.

I'm sure you wouldn't object opened minded christian that you are.

Dave Lane
05-02-2013, 10:08 PM
AbcNews poll in 2006 had it 83%. But I agree we are splitting hairs at these levels.

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=90356&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fsite%3D%26source%3Dhp%26ei%3D_g6DUdftM5Tq8gTr1YCQAg%26q%3 Dpercent%2Bamericans%2Bchristian%26oq%3Dpercent%2Bamericans%2Bchristian%26gs_l%3Dmobile-gws-hp.3..0j0i22i30l4.2760.9840.0.10461.31.22.2.7.7.1.290.2450.10j7j4.21.0...0.0...1c.1.12.mobile-gws-hp.c_aGB1Exx8Q

Probably lost that much in the 2 intervening years. It's dropping like a rock. Religion will have to re-invent itself or go extinct.

LiveSteam
05-02-2013, 10:10 PM
Probably lost that much in the 2 intervening years. It's dropping like a rock. Religion will have to re-invent itself or go extinct.

I will just sacrifice you to god & all will be restored on earth as it is in heaven
Or something like that

Prison Bitch
05-02-2013, 10:16 PM
I'm sure you wouldn't object opened minded christian that you are.

Why would I oppose that?