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Direckshun
05-04-2013, 12:16 PM
If Rubio's rhetoric is any indication, it's definitely Obama.

Selling immigration reform as worthwhile simply does not appeal to the Republican party. They still believe the border isn't being protected (despite increased deportation numbers), and they still believe illegal immigrants should not have a path to citizenship.

The GOP establishment, desperately trying to keep themselves relevant demographically for the future, cannot seem to drive the party to believe in the wisdom of immigration reform, either intellectually as policy, or demographically as politics.

The main resistance, as has been covered here before (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=269957):

If President Obama wants immigration reform that includes a path to citizenship for undocumented workers, he may not want to mention it at all in tonight’s State of the Union speech, a new Washington Post poll suggests (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/polling/post-poll-obama-endorsement-drag-path/2013/02/12/3230d18a-750b-11e2-9889-60bfcbb02149_page.html).

Seven in 10 people in the survey said they would support a path to citizenship, including 60 percent of Republicans. But when the same question was asked of a separate sample of respondents, this time with Obama’s name attached to it, support dropped to 59 percent overall and just 39 percent among Republicans.

So Rubio and the GOP have attempted selling immigration reform in classic white-is-black fashion to the base: if we don't get reform passed, Obama wins!

I don't see how this works with the House GOP, unless Boehner continues creating a majority by lumping in moderate Repulicans with Democrats. But even then, I think you need like 50 Republicans, and I don't see that happening.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2013/05/03/how-marco-rubio-is-enticing-conservatives-on-immigration-reform/

How Marco Rubio is enticing conservatives on immigration reform
Posted by Greg Sargent
on May 3, 2013 at 1:41 pm

So how can Republicans who want immigration reform get conservatives to accept it, given that Obama also wants it?

Republicans pushing for reform have come up with a strategic answer to that question, one that isn’t really acknowledged openly. They are subtly making the case to their base that a defeat for immigration reform is actually a hidden victory for Obama, and that passing the Senate compromise is actually worse for the President than the alternative, i.e. doing nothing.

In this sense, the immigration reform debate is perhaps the ultimate test of what Obama referred to as the need to create a “permission structure” — that is, a way for conservatives to accept something Obama wants, too. The message — which is carefully couched – is that, yes, Obama wants immigration reform, but conservatives should accept the Gang of Eight compromise because the alternative is actually better for the President.

You can see this strategy on display in Marco Rubio’s big Op ed piece in the Wall Street Journal today (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324766604578458933649759710.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop) calling on Republicans to embrace the Gang of Eight compromise. Note this formulation in particular:

The immigration-reform bill in the Senate is a solid starting point for solving this problem, and I believe it can be made even better as Congress begins to actively work on it in committee next week. But defeating it without offering an alternative cannot be the conservative position on immigration reform. That would leave the issue entirely in the hands of President Obama and leave in place the disastrous status quo.

The wording in the last sentence is very carefully chosen. The idea is that if we don’t pass the Gang of Eight plan, Obama wins. This case is being made on several levels. On the one hand, this notion of leaving the issue “entirely in the hands of Obama” is a partly a suggestion that the President just may use his executive powers to solve the undocumented immigrant problem himself if we don’t pass the Senate plan — just as he did with the DREAMers — even as conservatives get nothing of what they want: No increased enforcement, no E-Verify, nothing. At times, when speaking directly to conservative audiences, Rubio has made this case explicitly, as he did in this radio interview with Mark Levin (http://thinkprogress.org/immigration/2013/04/18/1889741/rubio-warns-republicans-if-you-dont-support-my-immigration-plan-obama-will-just-legalize-everyone/):

“If we don’t do anything, then the status quo remains, which is they won’t do anything. You won’t have E-Verify, you won’t have…. In fact, I think it’s possible that they could give legal status like they did to the DREAM Act qualificators, I mean people who qualified under the DREAM Act — they could do the same thing to millions of people more. What would stop them from doing that?”

This idea of the dangers of leaving in place “the disastrous status quo” is also an effort to make the case that failing to act now carries hidden benefits for Obama. The argument Rubio is making is a play on the notion that many conservatives simply don’t believe Obama is securing the border, despite record numbers of deportations and billions spent on border security. The Senate compromise would include massive new resources for border security; Rubio’s suggestion here is that failure to embrace it will allow Obama to continue failing to protect the border. Obama wins again!

There’s a key nuance here. As I understand the thinking, GOP base voters are turned off by the political argument that we must reform immigration because if we don’t, Obama will be able to screw Republicans over politically with Latinos. The reason the political argument doesn’t work is partly because many GOP base voters are persuaded that immigration reform will create a whole lot of Democratic voters — in purely political terms, rank-and-file members of the GOP base believe immigration reform is a net win for Democrats no matter how you slice it.

That’s why the argument can’t be openly stated as: If we embrace reform, Obama loses. It has to be carefully calibrated in the manner Rubio has adopted: Not doing anything opens the door for a far greater victory for Obama later. He will be able to do for the undocumented what he did for the DREAMers — while not securing the border — a twofer for Obama.

Obama is playing his part in this dance, too. He and the White House frequently take care to say — not in these exact words, but this is the message – that while he supports the Senate compromise, it’s far from the liberal dream legislation he’d like. And this isn’t just rhetorical: Obama really did remove himself from the process and allow bipartisan Senators, with heavy involvement from Republicans like Rubio and Lindsey Graham, create their compromise.

It’s been widely observed that we’re stalemated in Washington because GOP base voters can’t accept the idea of their representatives compromising with Obama. The President has hatched the idea of a “permission structure” to get around this problem. The immigration debate is looming as the number one test of this strategy. The rub is that Republicans, quietly, are also in on it.

LiveSteam
05-04-2013, 12:20 PM
Game is going into Overtime

Prison Bitch
05-04-2013, 12:26 PM
What do you mean, "reform"? I don't understand that word. What is being reformed? Are you referring to the latest iteration of amnesty? I believe that is what you are discussing.


And if that's the case, then obviously it is 10x worse than anything Obama could ever do as President outside of unleashing a nuke on some nation. So yeah: amnesty is horrible for the nation. Obama's more like a boil on its butt.

mikey23545
05-04-2013, 12:30 PM
What do you mean, "reform"? I don't understand that word. What is being reformed? Are you referring to the latest iteration of amnesty? I believe that is what you are discussing.


And if that's the case, then obviously it is 10x worse than anything Obama could ever do as President outside of unleashing a nuke on some nation. So yeah: amnesty is horrible for the nation. Obama's more like a boil on its butt.

Yep.

It is an attempt to change the electoral dynamic for the next generation or two...

Prison Bitch
05-04-2013, 01:03 PM
So why is Juan McCain out there on Fox News every night begging to get this passed? It's truly amazing. Had the 1965 disaster never been passed we'd not have Obama as President today.

Direckshun
05-05-2013, 12:20 PM
If DeMint is weighing in against immigration reform, then I don't see how this can get done.

DeMint is a barometer of the GOP base. If the GOP base can't get behind this, then the House can't pass shit. And immigration reform could be dead.

A short-term political victory for the GOP, maybe, since it robs Obama of an accomplishment he can brag about. But it is a destructive lack of policymaking, and we could continue to see 70/30 Hispanic turnout in favor of Democrats, turning states like Texas purple sooner rather than later, and giving the GOP a torturous longterm uphill climb in future Presidential races.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/05/jim-demint-immigration-reform-will-cost-u-s-trillions/

Jim DeMint: Immigration Reform Will Cost U.S. Trillions
By Benjamin Bell
May 5, 2013 10:52am

Former South Carolina Republican senator and current Heritage Foundation president Jim DeMint argued that implementing immigration reform as proposed by the so-called “Gang of Eight” would “cost Americans trillions of dollars,” citing a soon-to-be released update to the conservative group’s 2007 study on the impact of immigration reform.

“The study you’ll see from Heritage this week presents a staggering cost of another amnesty in our country,” DeMint said this morning on “This Week,” based on the “detrimental effects long-term” of government benefits that would eventually go to the millions offered a path to citizenship under the reform legislation currently being considered. “There’s no reason we can’t begin to fix our immigration system so that we won’t make this problem worse. But the bill that’s being presented is unfair to those who came here legally. It will cost Americans trillions of dollars. It’ll make our unlawful immigration system worse.”

A 2007 study by Robert Rector (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2007/06/amnesty-will-cost-us-taxpayers-at-least-26-trillion), assuming all undocumented immigrants were granted “amnesty,” said the cost to the United States of immigration reform would be at least $2.6 trillion. When asked if the new Heritage estimate would be more than $2.5 trillion, DeMint responded “much more than that.”

The 2007 study is not without its critics, such as Alex Nowrasteh of the Cato Institute, who wrote in April (http://www.cato.org/blog/heritage-immigration-study-fatally-flawed) that the study’s “flawed methodology produced a grossly exaggerated cost to federal taxpayers of legalizing unauthorized immigrants while undercounting or discounting their positive tax and economic contributions.”

DeMint dismissed the criticisms, including estimates by the Congressional Budget Office that say immigration reform will increase economic growth.

“Well, CBO said Obamacare wouldn’t cost us anything. They’re basically puppets of the Congress and the assumptions they put in the bill. Heritage is only organization that has done an analysis on the cost,” DeMint said.

“If you consider all the factors related to the amnesty – and, believe me, this is comprehensive – that it will have a negative long-term impact on our gross domestic product,” DeMint added. “So we just want Congress, for once, to count the cost of a bill. They’re notorious for underestimating the cost and not understanding the consequences.”

Prison Bitch
05-05-2013, 12:59 PM
If DeMint is weighing in against immigration reform, then I don't see how this can get done.

DeMint is a barometer of the GOP base. If the GOP base can't get behind this, then the House can't pass shit. And immigration reform could be dead.



Hey, not trying to be a jerk here, but are you really still wondering about the GOP base on this topic? Isn't this the most obviously decided topic any voting block has? Why don't we discuss whether the Pro-Choicers can get behind a restrictive abortion law in some state. Or whether gun owners can get behind tougher gun control.


You can't possibly be confused on this. We already saw it fail in 2007 so it's not news.

Direckshun
05-05-2013, 01:03 PM
Hey, not trying to be a jerk here, but are you really still wondering about the GOP base on this topic? Isn't this the most obviously decided topic any voting block has?

This is an issue that overwhelming majorities support, with one exception: the GOP base.

Due to the House's gerrymandered structure, however, the GOP base runs the House.

Therefore, no immigration reform bill can get passed. Solely because the GOP base controls the House.

Why don't we discuss whether the Pro-Choicers can get behind a restrictive abortion law in some state. Or whether gun owners can get behind tougher gun control.

I've actually discussed those topic ad nauseum on this forum, and will continue discussing them in the future.

As for this thread, they are irrelevent. If you want to start a discussion about either of those topics in a separate thread, I'll be there.

Prison Bitch
05-05-2013, 01:05 PM
A person would have to be a brain dead moron if they couldn't see why the GOP base would be opposed to this.

Direckshun
05-05-2013, 01:16 PM
A person would have to be a brain dead moron if they couldn't see why the GOP base would be opposed to this.

I understand why. I listen to talk radio aplenty.

Donger
05-05-2013, 01:18 PM
More hate.

Direckshun
05-05-2013, 01:21 PM
More hate.

That's fair.

In actuality, though, it's easier than typing "strongly disapprove of."

Donger
05-05-2013, 01:25 PM
That's fair.

In actuality, though, it's easier than typing "strongly disapprove of."

Indeed, but it doesn't have quite the same connotation, now does it.

Direckshun
05-05-2013, 01:28 PM
Indeed, but it doesn't have quite the same connotation, now does it.

When discussing the GOP base, both are pretty apt descriptors.

Listen to talk radio for an afternoon.

Donger
05-05-2013, 01:30 PM
When discussing the GOP base, both are pretty apt descriptors.

Listen to talk radio for an afternoon.

More hate.

Direckshun
05-05-2013, 01:35 PM
More hate.

That does raise an interesting question, perhaps.

Do you believe that the Democratic base from 2001-2009 hated George W. Bush?

Donger
05-05-2013, 02:17 PM
That does raise an interesting question, perhaps.

Do you believe that the Democratic base from 2001-2009 hated George W. Bush?

No, just the fringe. Just like today with Obama and the fringe right.

Direckshun
05-05-2013, 02:24 PM
No, just the fringe. Just like today with Obama and the fringe right.

That's fair.

BigRedChief
05-05-2013, 03:03 PM
Immigration reform will get done or the Republicans will pay in 2014/2016 and beyond. I can't believe that the republican adults in the room will allow immigration reform to fail and ruin their party to accomplish what. damage Obama's legacy? How is that in the Republicans self interest?

mlyonsd
05-05-2013, 03:53 PM
Immigration reform will get done or the Republicans will pay in 2014/2016 and beyond. I can't believe that the republican adults in the room will allow immigration reform to fail and ruin their party to accomplish what. damage Obama's legacy? How is that in the Republicans self interest?

I think the sticking point is making sure measures are put into place that will stop illegal immigration as much as possible. I agree with that. Until that part of the problem is addressed with some kind of plan there shouldn't be reform.

And don't ask me what that would be, above my pay grade.

Baby Lee
05-05-2013, 04:23 PM
That does raise an interesting question, perhaps.

Do you believe that the Democratic base from 2001-2009 hated George W. Bush?

No, just the fringe. Just like today with Obama and the fringe right.

I'd say a more apt term is disdain. Natalie Maines encapsulated it by saying she was embarrassed that he was her president. The 'ugh, that bumpkin' factor. I'd say that's fairly mainstream, entertainment types [not just A-listers, UCB types, Broadway types, road comics, , etc.], union types, environmentalists, blue staters. . .

Prison Bitch
05-05-2013, 04:39 PM
Immigration reform will get done or the Republicans will pay in 2014/2016 and beyond. I can't believe that the republican adults in the room will allow immigration reform to fail and ruin their party to accomplish what. damage Obama's legacy? How is that in the Republicans self interest?

Lulz

KC native
05-05-2013, 04:51 PM
So why is Juan McCain out there on Fox News every night begging to get this passed? It's truly amazing. Had the 1965 disaster never been passed we'd not have Obama as President today.

If only we could go back to when it was perfectly legal to discriminate against the darkies.

BigRedChief
05-05-2013, 05:31 PM
I think the sticking point is making sure measures are put into place that will stop illegal immigration as much as possible. I agree with that. Until that part of the problem is addressed with some kind of plan there shouldn't be reform.

And don't ask me what that would be, above my pay grade.I just don't see the point. If you look at it from a political self centered prism, it's in the Republican party self interest to get this done. Why would they not do it?

mlyonsd
05-05-2013, 05:53 PM
I just don't see the point. If you look at it from a political self centered prism, it's in the Republican party self interest to get this done. Why would they not do it?
Because maybe they want to figure out a way to correct the problem before granting amnesty. Which makes much more sense (if you really want to stop it, which I don't think democrats want to do) than just repeating the same mistake Reagan did.

BigRedChief
05-05-2013, 05:58 PM
Because maybe they want to figure out a way to correct the problem before granting amnesty. Which makes much more sense (if you really want to stop it, which I don't think democrats want to do) than just repeating the same mistake Reagan did.Seems to me that paying back taxes, pay fines, learning English, paying current taxes and getting no benefits, making them jump through hoops and keep qualifying while they wait 13 years is not "Amnesty".

mlyonsd
05-05-2013, 06:23 PM
Seems to me that paying back taxes, pay fines, learning English, paying current taxes and getting no benefits, making them jump through hoops and keep qualifying while they wait 13 years is not "Amnesty".
Well, it is amnesty if you consider that if current law was enforced they'd be celebrating Cinco de Mayo outside our border. But don't confuse me with someone that doesn't think this has to be solved. I was on board with it when Bush tried pushing it through. I understand bringing your family because if you work hard odds are they will have a better life.

The thing is, we need to stop the illegal part. Just granting amnesty now without stopping it is just repeating failed history.

BigRedChief
05-05-2013, 07:12 PM
Well, it is amnesty if you consider that if current law was enforced they'd be celebrating Cinco de Mayo outside our border. So you want to deport 11 million people then we will talk about immigration reform?

What do you think is the solution?

mlyonsd
05-05-2013, 07:24 PM
So you want to deport 11 million people then we will talk about immigration reform?

What do you think is the solution?You must have stopped reading my post at the first sentence.

I acknowledge they aren't going anywhere.

Now tell me how you stop it from becoming a continuing problem.

chefs fan in omaha
05-05-2013, 07:38 PM
Republicans love immigration reform, it helps them with the Latino vote. Obama hates immigration reform. He will have to choose between the unions and the Latinos. Unions hate green cards and want to significantly reduce the number of foreign workers.

patteeu
05-05-2013, 08:09 PM
I think the right kind of immigration reform could easily win majority support from Republicans. I don't see how Obama could.

Prison Bitch
05-05-2013, 08:41 PM
Or Bush.

FishingRod
05-06-2013, 10:02 AM
I have sympathy for the children of illegal parents that had no voice in the decision to come here. I have sympathy for those same parents that were willing to do whatever it took including breaking our laws for the hope of a better life for their family. Unfortunately the Kinder gentler United States of today where everyone should have a safety net really isn’t compatible with just letting everyone in the world come to America and suckle on the Government teat. We are not mean enough to let people starve, bleed to death in the hospital parking lot or keep their kids from attending public schools. It is a pretty obvious problem that I have heard zero solutions from the left about and nothing any better than a big fence and more border patrols from the right.

Comrade Crapski
05-28-2013, 10:57 AM
http://moonbattery.com/obamigration.jpg

Prison Bitch
11-05-2014, 07:09 PM
Immigration reform will get done or the Republicans will pay in 2014/2016 and beyond. I can't believe that the republican adults in the room will allow immigration reform to fail and ruin their party to accomplish what. damage Obama's legacy? How is that in the Republicans self interest?

Bump

LiveSteam
11-05-2014, 07:11 PM
Excellent bump PB.

Fairplay
11-05-2014, 07:20 PM
Direckshun the free thinker

BucEyedPea
11-05-2014, 07:21 PM
Direckshun the free thinker

LMAO

Prison Bitch
11-05-2014, 07:22 PM
Direck, Cosmo, BRC had lots to say after the 2012 election. Strangely though, they've been completely invisible today.

Mr. Kotter
11-05-2014, 07:46 PM
Trick question...

The real answer, of course, is... BOTH. :thumb:

notorious
11-05-2014, 08:02 PM
Which do Republicans hate more: immigration reform, or Obama

Yes.








I can't speak for Pubs, though. Just a guess.

Otter
11-05-2014, 08:16 PM
Immigration reform will get done or the Republicans will pay in 2014/2016 and beyond. I can't believe that the republican adults in the room will allow immigration reform to fail and ruin their party to accomplish what. damage Obama's legacy? How is that in the Republicans self interest?

It's truely odd that citizens of a country expect others to be held to the same standards of law. BigFlusteredQueef knows what's best. Just ask him.

ClevelandBronco
11-05-2014, 08:20 PM
I look at it this way: I wouldn't throw a party if immigration reform died.

Just Passin' By
11-05-2014, 08:25 PM
So you want to deport 11 million people then we will talk about immigration reform?

Sure, let's deport 11 million illegals before we talk about immigration reform.

What do you think is the solution?

After you've deported 11 million illegals, deport the remainder of the illegals.

jaa1025
11-05-2014, 11:29 PM
Very few people on either side support broad amnesty to millions of illegals. The rich want illegals for cheap labor. The democrat politicians want them for votes. Some on the left would jump of a bridge if Obama asked them to so they will as well, just as some on the right would follow Rush Limbaugh through fire. But most, even on the left, do not support a sweeping amnesty bill. This is why I think the left got killed yesterday and why Obama is going to bury any hope that democrats have in 16.

I support immigration for people that will contribute to the country and their communities and love this country. In areas where there are shortages like doctors then please apply. Most civilized nations have very strict laws on immigration. New Zealand is probably the best country to live in has a very strict immigration policy. Austrailia. Japan. Denmark. Hell even Mexico has strict immigration laws. The US and the UK have the loosest and the UK is a mess right now because of it.

Most do not support bringing millions of uneducated, non English speaking people that will starve this country and their communities of social programs, medical and school systems.

BigChiefTablet
11-06-2014, 09:47 AM
I don't mind people immigrating to this country. Most of our ancestors did. I 'd just like them to sign the guest book on the way in, contribute instead of leach, pay taxes, and not just come here looking for a handout.

Taco John
11-06-2014, 11:40 AM
I'd say Obama is the unifying point of dislike.

Whether anyone likes this or not, the middle class feels like Obamacare has sucked the raises out of the system while increasing costs. Whether the economic analysis supports that or not doesn't really matter.

Right now, the Democrats are on the wrong side of the voters. This is a bad place for them to be, especially if you're a progressive, because progressives know better than anyone that Democrats are much more squishy than their counterparts across the aisle.

Lost in all of the hype about the historic republican sweep is that the Democrats that made it through the house and senate are mostly all Blue Dog types. Obamacare overreach has effectively turned this country more conservative than it's been since before the New Deal. Let that sink in.

Obama has effectively erased decades of gains. It will be his legacy.

ChiTown
11-06-2014, 11:52 AM
I don't mind people immigrating to this country. Most of our ancestors did. I 'd just like them to sign the guest book on the way in, contribute instead of leach, pay taxes, and not just come here looking for a handout.

Sounds fair to me

blaise
11-06-2014, 11:53 AM
Liberals wil just write Obama's legacy as: He was a great man that battled against intense racism and was blocked from achieving his dreams at every turn.

Then when they make a movie about him he'll be a saint and all the Republicans will be portrayed as redneck racists that "need to teach that uppity negro a lesson in politics."

HonestChieffan
11-06-2014, 11:59 AM
Liberals wil just write Obama's legacy as: He was a great man that battled against intense racism and was blocked from achieving his dreams at every turn.

Then when they make a movie about him he'll be a saint and all the Republicans will be portrayed as redneck racists that "need to teach that uppity negro a lesson in politics."

Mel Brooks could do a fine job on a movie 'bout Barak. Lots of music. Dancin. Some sports. That would be so fine.

ChiTown
11-06-2014, 12:19 PM
Liberals wil just write Obama's legacy as: He was a great man that battled against intense racism and was blocked from achieving his dreams at every turn.

Then when they make a movie about him he'll be a saint and all the Republicans will be portrayed as redneck racists that "need to teach that uppity negro a lesson in politics."

:clap: -

will-i-am plays B.O.
James Taylor plays - Joe B
Oprah plays M.O.
Various Racists from Mississippi Prisons play the Republican Cast of Characters

Should be a fair and accurate depiction............

Cochise
11-06-2014, 12:31 PM
So we have Dreck posting threads now for the express purpose of trying to talk himself into thinking his party's agenda hasn't been repudiated by the electorate

loochy
11-06-2014, 12:41 PM
What do democrats hate more: freedom or babies?

Prison Bitch
11-06-2014, 12:56 PM
I said after 2012 there was absolutely no need for any immigration bill r even cooperation. Direck and BRC disagreed.



Well? I'm here today. Where are they?

Radar Chief
11-06-2014, 01:11 PM
:clap: -

will-i-am plays B.O.
James Taylor plays - Joe B
Oprah plays M.O.
Various Racists from Mississippi Prisons play the Republican Cast of Characters

Should be a fair and accurate depiction............

Directed/produced by Oliver Stone. :thumb:

Radar Chief
11-06-2014, 01:15 PM
So we have Dreck posting threads now for the express purpose of trying to talk himself into thinking his party's agenda hasn't been repudiated by the electorate

About a year and a half ago yes, but not now.
Nice bump by PB though.

srvy
11-06-2014, 02:12 PM
Sure, let's deport 11 million illegals before we talk about immigration reform.



After you've deported 11 million illegals, deport the remainder of the illegals.

It really is so simple why do so many not get it? They are here unlawfully so we give them amnesty and say welcome enjoy your stay with a green card. Deport them and do it the right way. If they broke our laws sneaking in then chances are they will break other laws. Reward those who do it right and discourage the lawbreakers.

warrior
11-06-2014, 02:32 PM
It really is so simple why do so many not get it? They are here unlawfully so we give them amnesty and say welcome enjoy your stay with a green card. Deport them and do it the right way. If they broke our laws sneaking in then chances are they will break other laws. Reward those who do it right and discourage the lawbreakers.





Well said totally agree

Just Passin' By
11-06-2014, 03:10 PM
It really is so simple why do so many not get it? They are here unlawfully so we give them amnesty and say welcome enjoy your stay with a green card. Deport them and do it the right way. If they broke our laws sneaking in then chances are they will break other laws. Reward those who do it right and discourage the lawbreakers.

People talk about this country being a nation of immigrants as if we're 300 million first generation citizens who all just hopped off the boat a few yeas ago. It's a ploy to take the high road while framing the debate in the "Your family did it, so who are you to oppose this now?" vein. The American people need to stop falling for that kind of emotional manipulation. Let the other nations of the world solve their own economic and population problems instead of exporting them to us.

Prison Bitch
11-06-2014, 06:35 PM
Reince Pribus the douche once again declared he wants an amnesty. That clown really deserves an elbow to the eye socket. How about telling us what you'll do for the folks who actually voted FOR your candidates?


Do they even matter?

alnorth
11-06-2014, 06:42 PM
I'm a hell of a lot closer to the Republicans than the Democrats on this issue. If I were emperor of America, I'd just start spending whatever the money and resources necessary to deport by the millions.

I also think the issue is basically lost and settled, because politics is eventually going to lead to full amnesty.

RedNeckRaider
11-06-2014, 06:53 PM
People like you by a mile. I am sick of both parties to the point I view both as enemies. Shitbags like you manage to keep me leaning right~