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Saccopoo
02-20-2014, 02:35 PM
Wide Receivers:

Jared Abbrederis, Wisconsin
6'1", 195 lb., 31 3/8" arms, 9 5/8" hands

Davante Adams, Fresno State
6'1", 212 lb., 32 5/8" arms, 9" hands

Odell Beckham, LSU
5'11 1/4", 198 lb., 32 3/4" arms, 10" hands

Kelvin Benjamin, Florida State
6'5", 240 lb., 34 7/8" arms, 10 1/4" hands

Christopher Boyd, Vanderbilt
6'4", 206 lb., 32 5/8" arms, 9 3/8" hands

Philly Brown, Ohio State
5'11", 178 lb., 31 3/4" arms, 9 3/8" hands

John Brown, Pittsburg State
5'11", 179 lb., 30 1/2" arms, 8 1/2" hands

Martavis Bryant, Clemson
6'3 1/2", 211 lb., 32 5/8" arms, 9 1/2" hands

Isaiah Burse, Fresno State
5'10", 188 lb., 30 1/4" arms, 8 3/8" hands

Michael Campanaro, Wake Forest
5'9", 192 lb., 30" arms, 9 3/4" hands

Brandon Coleman Rutgers
6'6", 225 lb., 34" arms, 9 1/4" hands

Kain Colter, Northwestern
5'10", 198 lb., 31" arms, 10" hands

Brandin Cooks, Oregon State
5'9 1/2", 189 lb., 30 1/2" arms, 9 5/8" hands

Damian Copeland, Louisville
5'11", 184 lb., 31 3/8" arms, 9" hands

Mike Davis, Texas
6'0", 197 lb., 32 3/4" arms, 10" hands

Bruce Ellington, South Carolina
5'9 1/4", 197 lb., 31" arms, 9 5/8" hands

Quincy Enunwa, Nebraska
6'2", 225 lb., 32 5/8" arms, 9 1/2" hands

Mike Evans, Texas A&M
6'4 1/2", 231 lb., 35 1/8" arms, 9 5/8" hands

Shaq Evans, UCLA
6'1", 213 lb., 32" arms, 9 3/8" hands

Bennie Fowler, Michigan State
6'1", 217 lb., 32" arms, 9 3/8" hands

Austin Franklin, New Mexico State
5'11", 189 lb., 31 1/4" arms, 10" hands

Jeremy Gallon, Michigan
5'7", 185 lb., 29 1/2" arms, 9 3/8" hands

Ryan Grant, Tulane
6'0", 199 lb., 31" arms, 9 5/8" hands

Matt Hazel, Coastal Carolina
6'1", 198 lb., 31 2/8" arms, 9 1/8" hands

Robert Herron, Wyoming
5'9", 193 lb., 30 1/2" arms, 9 3/4" hands

Cody Hoffman, BYU
6'4", 223 lb., 33 1/4" arms, 9 3/4" hands

Josh Huff, Oregon
5'11", 206 lb., 31 1/4" arms, 9 3/8" hands

Allen Hurns, Miami (FL)
6'1", 198 lb., 32" arms, 9 1/4" hands

Jeff Janis, Saginaw Valley State
6'3", 219 lb., 32 1/2" arms, 9" hands

T.J. Jones, Notre Dame
6'0", 188 lb., 30 5/8" arms, 10" hands

Jarvis Landry, LSU
5'11 1/4", 198 lb., 31 1/4" arms, 10 1/4" hands

Cody Latimer, Indiana
6'2", 215 lb., 32 5/8" arms, 9 5/8" hands

Marqise Lee, USC
5'11 1/2", 192 lb., 31 1/4" arms, 9 1/2" hands

Marcus Lucas, Missouri
6'4", 218 lb., 33 5/8" arms, 9 3/8" hands

Jordan Matthews, Vanderbilt
6'3", 212 lb., 33 1/4" arms, 10 3/4" hands

Donte Moncrief, Mississippi
6'2", 221 lb., 32 2/8" arms, 9 1/8" hands

Kevin Norwood, Alabama
6'2", 198 lb., 32 1/8" arms, 10" hands

Walt Powell, Murray State
5'11", 189 lb., 31 5/8" arms, 9 1/2" hands

Tevin Reese, Baylor
5'10", 163 lb., 31 5/8" arms, 8 5/8" hands

Paul Richardson, Colorado
6'0", 175 lb., 32 5/8" arms, 8 7/8" hands

Allen Robinson, Penn State
6'2 1/4", 220 lb., 32" arms, 9 1/2" hands

Jalen Saunders, Oklahoma
5'9", 163 lb., 30" arms, 8 7/8" hands

Willie Snead, Ball State
5'11", 195 lb., 31" arms, 10 1/4" hands

Josh Stewart, Oklahoma State
5'10", 178 lb., 30" arms, 9 3/8" hands

Devin Street, Pittsburgh
6'3", 198 lb., 33 2/8" arms, 9 1/4" hands

L'Damian Washington, Missouri
6'4", 195 lb., 33 3/8" arms, 9" hands

Sammy Watkins, Clemson
6'0 1/2", 211 lb., 32" arms, 9 5/8" hands

Albert Wilson, Georgia State
5'9", 202 lb., 30 3/8" arms, 9 1/8" hands


2013 Top WR Drafted & Combine Results:

Tavon Austion, West Virginia
5'8", 174 lb., 30" arms, 9 1/8" hands
Bench: 14 reps
40: 4.34 seconds
Vertical: 32.0"
Broad Jump: 120.0"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.01 seconds

Saccopoo
02-21-2014, 08:58 PM
Mike Evans arms are absolutely freakish long.

Saccopoo
02-21-2014, 09:26 PM
Tidbits:

More measurements are coming in, this time for some wide receivers. With Sammy Watkins measuring a shade under 6'1, it becomes harder to justify him in Top 5. He's really good, but I'm a stickler for receivers that high. They have to be Julio Jones, A.J. Green or Calvin Johnson. Watkins isn't on that level.I'm not sure who the Browns should take at four if Bridgewater and Manziel are both off the board. Would be tough call.

OldSchool
02-21-2014, 09:49 PM
Tidbits:

I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger on Mack if I were them.

jonzie04
02-22-2014, 01:56 AM
Jordan Matthews has some god damn bear claws for hands.

The Pest
02-22-2014, 01:42 PM
Cooks measured a little bigger than i thought.

philfree
02-23-2014, 10:09 AM
Cooks measured a little bigger than i thought.

4.30 40 Some other guys tore it up as well.

WhawhaWhat
02-23-2014, 10:27 AM
Best 40 times for WRs, including a WR from Pitt State.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap2000000328267/Speedy-wide-receivers-at-combine

philfree
02-23-2014, 11:57 AM
So how many WRs will be drafted in the first 22 picks?

OldSchool
02-23-2014, 03:12 PM
So how many WRs will be drafted in the first 22 picks?

I can see possibly 4.

Evans and Watkins are definitely gone.

Lee and Beckham can go as well.

That would leave us with Matthews, Cooks, and Landry in the next group.

I think Landry might drop to the 3rd round now though because of his exceptionally slow 40. Really is the next Boldin.

Would you trade up for Mike Evans?

Also, the strength of this WR class might make Ebron fall to us.

bowener
02-23-2014, 04:44 PM
I can see possibly 4.

Evans and Watkins are definitely gone.

Lee and Beckham can go as well.

That would leave us with Matthews, Cooks, and Landry in the next group.

I think Landry might drop to the 3rd round now though because of his exceptionally slow 40. Really is the next Boldin.

Would you trade up for Mike Evans?

Also, the strength of this WR class might make Ebron fall to us.

Where does Benjamin go?

OldSchool
02-23-2014, 05:14 PM
Where does Benjamin go?

I don't really like Benjamin all that much. For a guy with his measurables, he doesn't high point the ball consistently enough, he drops too many passes, and he took a long time to do anything in Florida State despite playing with 2 NFL Starting caliber QBs his entire college career and on a team that doesn't really have any outstanding WRs besides Green. Makes me question his dedication and football IQ a lot. If he had produced consistently for at least 2 seasons there would be some merit to him being selected in the 1st round of this draft class; but he's just too risky to be taken that highly especially with the depth of talent at WR and across the board this year. I honestly don't think that he is any better than Brandon Coleman out of Rutgers. Benjamin isn't very explosive and won't be able to create the separation that you would want out of your WRs. For a big WR to succeed in the NFL, they have to display dominant hands and the ability to absolutely dominate at the point of the catch. Evans has it, Benjamin doesn't. That's why the league isn't filled with a ton of 6'5" + big bodied WRs and instead has an overwhelming amount of 5'10"-6'1", 180-215 pound WRs who can create separation with their quickness, route running, and speed instead. Not a lot of really big Wrs are actually truly dominant at the point of the catch.

Want Benjamin? Go sign Ramses Barden who has been in the league for 4 years and has done absolutely nothing.

I say that Benjamin doesn't go until rounds 2-3. He's not a 1st rounder, especially not in this draft class.

Wilson8
02-23-2014, 05:23 PM
For value at where he is projected in the draft, I would take Jared Abbrederis, Wisconsin 6'1", 195 lb., 31 3/8" arms, 9 5/8" hands, and 4.50 40 time. He is projected as a 3rd rounder. He was also a punt returner before his senior season. If McCluster does not come back, we will need someone to handle that role.

He had some very good games at Wisconsin. He was one of the better Senior Bowl WRs in the practice sessions .

OldSchool
02-23-2014, 05:36 PM
For value at where he is projected in the draft, I would take Jared Abbrederis, Wisconsin 6'1", 195 lb., 31 3/8" arms, 9 5/8" hands, and 4.50 40 time. He is projected as a 3rd rounder. He was also a punt returner before his senior season. If McCluster does not come back, we will need someone to handle that role.

He had some very good games at Wisconsin. He was one of the better Senior Bowl WRs in the practice sessions .

Really savvy route runner. People just aren't sure how he'll handle physical corners though.

Deberg_1990
02-23-2014, 05:41 PM
Mike Evans arms are absolutely freakish long.

He would almost be better as a TE in the NFL.
Posted via Mobile Device

Easy 6
02-23-2014, 06:37 PM
cooks, Cooks, COOKS... a guy like that can get open against anyone.

You don't have to be big when you're OPEN.

Chiefshrink
02-23-2014, 06:37 PM
He would almost be better as a TE in the NFL.
Posted via Mobile Device

My point as well a few threads back, he could be the next Jimmy Graham and actually play hybrid TE/WR depending on the situation.;)

Chiefshrink
02-23-2014, 06:43 PM
cooks, Cooks, COOKS... a guy like that can get open against anyone.

You don't have to be big when you're OPEN.

He is definitely my guy as well if we draft a WR in the first. If you haven't seen his gauntlet drill you need to watch it. Lightening quick, clean catches never losing speed in a straight line and when he turns it up field he never misses a beat showing you he has a 6th gear if needed.;)

Natural hands.

This guy replaces McCluster IMO.

OldSchool
02-23-2014, 06:45 PM
cooks, Cooks, COOKS... a guy like that can get open against anyone.

You don't have to be big when you're OPEN.

He sucked against the only good corner that he lined up against. Watch his snaps vs Ekpre Olamu, he got 0 separation against him and only did something against Oregon when he was lined up away from Olamu. Cooks is going to kill as a Slot WR, but don't expect him to become a #1 outside guy and replace Bowe. He just doesn't have the size to do it.

In58men
02-23-2014, 06:47 PM
I don't really like Benjamin all that much. For a guy with his measurables, he doesn't high point the ball consistently enough, he drops too many passes, and he took a long time to do anything in Florida State despite playing with 2 NFL Starting caliber QBs his entire college career and on a team that doesn't really have any outstanding WRs besides Green. Makes me question his dedication and football IQ a lot. If he had produced consistently for at least 2 seasons there would be some merit to him being selected in the 1st round of this draft class; but he's just too risky to be taken that highly especially with the depth of talent at WR and across the board this year. I honestly don't think that he is any better than Brandon Coleman out of Rutgers. Benjamin isn't very explosive and won't be able to create the separation that you would want out of your WRs. For a big WR to succeed in the NFL, they have to display dominant hands and the ability to absolutely dominate at the point of the catch. Evans has it, Benjamin doesn't. That's why the league isn't filled with a ton of 6'5" + big bodied WRs and instead has an overwhelming amount of 5'10"-6'1", 180-215 pound WRs who can create separation with their quickness, route running, and speed instead. Not a lot of really big Wrs are actually truly dominant at the point of the catch.

Want Benjamin? Go sign Ramses Barden who has been in the league for 4 years and has done absolutely nothing.

I say that Benjamin doesn't go until rounds 2-3. He's not a 1st rounder, especially not in this draft class.

Because all tall big WRs are the next Ramses Barden lol. Evans couldn't break from a route to save his life today. Benjamin is a monster.

Easy 6
02-23-2014, 06:54 PM
He is definitely my guy as well if we draft a WR in the first. If you haven't seen his gauntlet drill you need to watch it. Lightening quick, clean catches never losing speed in a straight line and when he turns it up field he never misses a beat showing you he has a 6th gear if needed.;)

Natural hands.

This guy replaces McCluster IMO.

It might even turn out that we don't have to go #1 with him, teams are going to turn up their nose due to size... of all the highlight vids I watched he was the clearcut sizzler, being able to stop and cut on a dime while maintaining top speed is priceless.

He sucked against the only good corner that he lined up against. Watch his snaps vs Ekpre Olamu, he got 0 separation against him and only did something against Oregon when he was lined up away from Olamu. Cooks is going to kill as a Slot WR, but don't expect him to become a #1 outside guy and replace Bowe. He just doesn't have the size to do it.

Yaya... he had a bad game against some guy, again, stop and start ability while maintaining control and speed is golden... skill like that equals inherent "get open" ability.

I doubt he needs to be take #1 the way things are looking anyway... disagree if you must, but its my opinion that Smith would LOVE a guy like this... he IS going to be able to shake his man for that half second more often than not thus creating a clean and safe throw.

OldSchool
02-23-2014, 07:12 PM
It might even turn out that we don't have to go #1 with him, teams are going to turn up their nose due to size... of all the highlight vids I watched he was the clearcut sizzler, being able to stop and cut on a dime while maintaining top speed is priceless.



Yaya... he had a bad game against some guy, again, stop and start ability while maintaining control and speed is golden... skill like that equals inherent "get open" ability.

I doubt he needs to be take #1 the way things are looking anyway... disagree if you must, but its my opinion that Smith would LOVE a guy like this... he IS going to be able to shake his man for that half second more often than not thus creating a clean and safe throw.
You could take Archer in the 4th and get the same start and stop ability with even more top end speed while taking a potential #1 WR in round 1. This draft is full of good slot guys, no need to spend our only pick in the top 70 on one.

jonzie04
02-23-2014, 07:17 PM
my favorite Wr for our first pick at this point would be Jordan Matthews. unmatched production and great speed for his size. he has superstar potential as a number 1 WR. liked cook's production, but lets be honest, he doesn't catch anywhere near that amount of balls in the sec. I like him as much as beckham but I feel they're both pretty limited to the the slot, or can play #2 with a true #1 wide out on the opposite side. Matthews reminds me of his cousin jerry rice. he might not be the flashiest Wr but he produces game in and game out, year in and year out.

J Diddy
02-23-2014, 07:21 PM
Best 40 times for WRs, including a WR from Pitt State.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap2000000328267/Speedy-wide-receivers-at-combine

A bad ass WR from Pitt State....

OldSchool
02-23-2014, 07:22 PM
my favorite Wr for our first pick at this point would be Jordan Matthews. unmatched production and great speed for his size. he has superstar potential as a number 1 WR. liked cook's production, but lets be honest, he doesn't catch anywhere near that amount of balls in the sec. I like him as much as beckham but I feel they're both pretty limited to the the slot, or can play #2 with a true #1 wide out on the opposite side. Matthews reminds me of his cousin jerry rice. he might not be the flashiest Wr but he produces game in and game out, year in and year out.

Beckham has just enough size to develop into a #1. He has pretty good length due to his long arms and big hands to be able to make the tough catches. He's going to go ahead of our pick though, I don't see the Jets passing on him if Evans and Watkins are gone. I think they would take Beckham over Ebron in all honesty.

OldSchool
02-23-2014, 07:27 PM
Moncrief is explosive as hell, especially for his size, but has a lot of bad tape from last season. He literally looks nonchalant at times, just like Bowe. Doesn't look interested in blocking at all, showed no tenacity or drive to dominate his opponents. I worry about his will to become great. Has all the physical tools, just don't think that the drive is there.

Wilson8
02-24-2014, 12:02 AM
I think both Moncrief and Abbrederis could help the Chiefs, but I would prefer Abbrederis.

Donte Moncrief, Mississippi – 6 catch, 122 yards, 2 TD against Auburn. 5 catch, 107 yards against LSU. 7 catch, 149 yards, 1 TD. 6 catch, 115 yards against Missouri. 6 catch, 113 yards, 1 TD against Georgia Tech.

Jared Abbrederis – 10 catches, 207 yards, 1 TD against Ohio State’s Bradley Roby. 2 catches, 122 yards, 2 TDs against Massachusetts. 6 catch, 87 yards against Arizona State. 7 catch, 94 yards against Purdue. 8 catch, 106 yards against Illinois. 12 catch, 135 yards against Penn State. He had a total of 78 receptions, 1081 yards, and 7 TDs in 2013. He had 49 receptions, 837 yards, 5 TDs in 2012. Also, in 2012, 43 punt returns, 315 yards, 1 TD.

OldSchool
02-24-2014, 05:10 AM
BTW, look out for Albert Wilson in the 5th to 6th round. Real burner and could be a great slot guy.

Chiefshrink
02-24-2014, 09:32 AM
Cooks is going to kill as a Slot WR, but don't expect him to become a #1 outside guy and replace Bowe. He just doesn't have the size to do it.

Precisely my point. This guy will make Welker look slow in acceleration back in Welker's prime but with actual top end speed Welker never had. Agreed he is not a dominant No.1 but I will take a Welker on ROIDs any day;)

Exoter175
02-24-2014, 09:42 AM
Precisely my point. This guy will make Welker look slow in acceleration back in Welker's prime but with actual top end speed Welker never had. Agreed he is not a dominant No.1 but I will take a Welker on ROIDs any day;)

The thing with Cooks if you watch his tape, is he doesn't "look" like a Welker or Amendola type, doesn't play like a Dante Hall or Az-Zahir-Hakim type. Those guys, Welker included, had a specific way they used their bodies and caught the ball at different points on the field.

Cooks, on the other hand, is like a mixed bag. When he's outside the hash, he uses his body and catches the ball similar to Julio Jones, despite the immense size difference, its actually quite refreshing to watch, and I'm huge on Julio. Across the middle though, he plays like a Wayne Chrebet, which is high praise there.

I think in the right system with the right coaching with the right scheme, this kid could be absolutely dynamite!

Ragged Robin
02-24-2014, 10:10 AM
Receivers look pretty deep. IMO if Clinton-Dix is on the board at #23 you gotta take him.. we can pick our receiver in the 3rd.

Infidel Goat
02-24-2014, 01:57 PM
2013 Top WR Drafted & Combine Results:

Tavon Austion, West Virginia
5'8", 174 lb., 30" arms, 9 1/8" hands
Bench: 14 reps
40: 4.34 seconds
Vertical: 32.0"
Broad Jump: 120.0"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.01 seconds

I will pimp my Demon Deacon (maybe round 4)...

Mike Campanaro, Wake Forest
5'9", 192 lbs, 30" arms, 9 3/4" hands
Bench: 20 reps
40: 4.46 seconds
Vertical: 39.0"
Broad Jump: 122.0"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.01 seconds

He can return punts and is a prototypical slot receiver.

Rudy tossed tigger's salad
02-24-2014, 03:25 PM
I know we need lots of help in other positions, but I'd like to draft two receivers from this class

Direckshun
02-24-2014, 03:29 PM
Ideally, the Chiefs will find some way to trade down.

6 picks isn't enough. We need something closer to 8 or 9.

OldSchool
02-24-2014, 07:09 PM
Ideally, the Chiefs will find some way to trade down.

6 picks isn't enough. We need something closer to 8 or 9.

Getting Clemons and/or Abdullah back would go a long way towards making me feel better about passing on a safety in the draft. Signing Frostee Rucker, Pitoitua, or Carrington would make me feel good about passing on DL talent as well in the 1st-3rd. Then we can focus on WR, CB, and OLB in the first 3 rounds.

I think this WR class is too good for us to use a roster spot on another known FA commodity.

Friendo
02-24-2014, 09:07 PM
I will pimp my Demon Deacon (maybe round 4)...

Mike Campanaro, Wake Forest
5'9", 192 lbs, 30" arms, 9 3/4" hands
Bench: 20 reps
40: 4.46 seconds
Vertical: 39.0"
Broad Jump: 122.0"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.01 seconds

He can return punts and is a prototypical slot receiver.

I didn't watch enough of him, but the few times I did see him he was tough as whip-leather...probably a steal for someone...reminds me a little of another Deac WR who made a name for himself in the NFL.

BossChief
02-24-2014, 09:36 PM
I think both Moncrief and Abbrederis could help the Chiefs, but I would prefer Abbrederis.

Donte Moncrief, Mississippi – 6 catch, 122 yards, 2 TD against Auburn. 5 catch, 107 yards against LSU. 7 catch, 149 yards, 1 TD. 6 catch, 115 yards against Missouri. 6 catch, 113 yards, 1 TD against Georgia Tech.

Jared Abbrederis – 10 catches, 207 yards, 1 TD against Ohio State’s Bradley Roby. 2 catches, 122 yards, 2 TDs against Massachusetts. 6 catch, 87 yards against Arizona State. 7 catch, 94 yards against Purdue. 8 catch, 106 yards against Illinois. 12 catch, 135 yards against Penn State. He had a total of 78 receptions, 1081 yards, and 7 TDs in 2013. He had 49 receptions, 837 yards, 5 TDs in 2012. Also, in 2012, 43 punt returns, 315 yards, 1 TD.

I really like Abbrederis. Textbook route runner with dependable hands.

He would be a PERFECT fit for our offense, too.

He would get a lot of balls thrown his way by Alex because he is so dependable.

BossChief
02-24-2014, 09:40 PM
Ideally, the Chiefs will find some way to trade down.

6 picks isn't enough. We need something closer to 8 or 9.

Yeah. I've been screaming this for the last couple months.

This draft is gonna have some guys available in the late 5th/early 6th round that would be 3rd or 4th rounders in any other draft.

The depth of this class is just unreal.

I'm surprised so many underclass men declared. Some of them made big mistakes.

OldSchool
02-24-2014, 10:05 PM
Yeah. I've been screaming this for the last couple months.

This draft is gonna have some guys available in the late 5th/early 6th round that would be 3rd or 4th rounders in any other draft.

The depth of this class is just unreal.

I'm surprised so many underclass men declared. Some of them made big mistakes.

I want us to get Trai Turner at some point. If he had stayed in school, he has the physical ability and arm length to be a future 1st-2nd round OG. Projected in the 6th this year because of the depth of this draft class and how raw he is.

BossChief
02-24-2014, 11:03 PM
Even without Albert, I think our line just needs shuffled and has the potential to be really good.

LT fisher
Lg Hudson
C Kush
RG Schwartz
RT Stephenson

That line has the makings of a really solid unit.

Chiefshrink
02-24-2014, 11:32 PM
The thing with Cooks if you watch his tape, is he doesn't "look" like a Welker or Amendola type, doesn't play like a Dante Hall or Az-Zahir-Hakim type. Those guys, Welker included, had a specific way they used their bodies and caught the ball at different points on the field.

Cooks, on the other hand, is like a mixed bag. When he's outside the hash, he uses his body and catches the ball similar to Julio Jones, despite the immense size difference, its actually quite refreshing to watch, and I'm huge on Julio. Across the middle though, he plays like a Wayne Chrebet, which is high praise there.

I think in the right system with the right coaching with the right scheme, this kid could be absolutely dynamite!

Thanks for the added info. Sounds like a Steve Smith type as well.

OldSchool
02-25-2014, 12:12 AM
Speaking of WRs, what's everyone's take on Martavis Bryant?

For me, great measurables, but I question his character & desire to become great. Only had one decent season.

saphojunkie
02-25-2014, 10:29 AM
Look, there's a blazing fast WR from the state of Kansas named John Brown. How could I NOT want?

htismaqe
02-25-2014, 10:52 AM
I really like Abbrederis. Textbook route runner with dependable hands.

He would be a PERFECT fit for our offense, too.

He would get a lot of balls thrown his way by Alex because he is so dependable.

This.

Frosty
02-26-2014, 09:00 AM
The thing with Cooks if you watch his tape, is he doesn't "look" like a Welker or Amendola type, doesn't play like a Dante Hall or Az-Zahir-Hakim type. Those guys, Welker included, had a specific way they used their bodies and caught the ball at different points on the field.

Cooks, on the other hand, is like a mixed bag. When he's outside the hash, he uses his body and catches the ball similar to Julio Jones, despite the immense size difference, its actually quite refreshing to watch, and I'm huge on Julio. Across the middle though, he plays like a Wayne Chrebet, which is high praise there.

I think in the right system with the right coaching with the right scheme, this kid could be absolutely dynamite!

Cooks broke the Combine record for the 60 yard shuttle and tied the Combine for the 20 yard shuttle. He also had a 36" vertical which was upper mid-pack. That doesn't sound that impressive until you realize that Cooks is one of the shorter WRs at the Combine. Watkins has 3" on him and 4" longer arms, yet had a 34" vertical. Cooks is fast and shifty. He can also go up and get the ball in traffic.

Compared to Tavon Austin last year (Cooks in red):

Tavon Austion, West Virginia
5'8", 174 lb., 30" arms, 9 1/8" hands
5'9 1/2", 189 lb., 30 1/2" arms, 9 5/8" hands
Bench: 14 reps
Bench: 16 reps
40: 4.34 seconds
40: 4.33 seconds
Vertical: 32.0"
Vertical: 36.0"
Broad Jump: 120.0"
Broad Jump: 120.0"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.01 seconds
20 Yard Shuttle: 3.81 seconds

saphojunkie
02-26-2014, 11:23 AM
Cooks broke the Combine record for the 60 yard shuttle and tied the Combine for the 20 yard shuttle. He also had a 36" vertical which was upper mid-pack. That doesn't sound that impressive until you realize that Cooks is one of the shorter WRs at the Combine. Watkins has 3" on him and 4" longer arms, yet had a 34" vertical. Cooks is fast and shifty. He can also go up and get the ball in traffic.

Compared to Tavon Austin last year (Cooks in red):

Tavon Austion, West Virginia
5'8", 174 lb., 30" arms, 9 1/8" hands
5'9 1/2", 189 lb., 30 1/2" arms, 9 5/8" hands
Bench: 14 reps
Bench: 16 reps
40: 4.34 seconds
40: 4.33 seconds
Vertical: 32.0"
Vertical: 36.0"
Broad Jump: 120.0"
Broad Jump: 120.0"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.01 seconds
20 Yard Shuttle: 3.81 seconds

I'd prefer if our first round receiver did better than 400 yards receiving in his rookie year.

Cooks is an excellent pick for a team that already has weapons in the passing game. That's not us. We need a legit #1 receiver or tight end.

If we were able to trade back from 23 to say... 26 and pick up a 2nd rounder, then I could see us going Amaro in the first and coming back for a WR with the next pick.

OldSchool
02-26-2014, 11:23 AM
Cooks broke the Combine record for the 60 yard shuttle and tied the Combine for the 20 yard shuttle. He also had a 36" vertical which was upper mid-pack. That doesn't sound that impressive until you realize that Cooks is one of the shorter WRs at the Combine. Watkins has 3" on him and 4" longer arms, yet had a 34" vertical. Cooks is fast and shifty. He can also go up and get the ball in traffic.


So if Cooks jumps 36", his reach and catch radius would still be considerably smaller than Watkins, so what was the point in posting that? Lol. If he had a 40" vertical and Watkins only jumped 30", then you could make a case. But a 2" difference in their verticals doesn't make up for about 8" in reach.

Jakemall
02-26-2014, 11:32 AM
So if Cooks jumps 36", his reach and catch radius would still be considerably smaller than Watkins, so what was the point in posting that? Lol. If he had a 40" vertical and Watkins only jumped 30", then you could make a case. But a 2" difference in their verticals doesn't make up for about 8" in reach.

Two very different WRs that will fill very different roles on whatever team they land on.

Frosty
02-26-2014, 11:37 AM
I'd prefer if our first round receiver did better than 400 yards receiving in his rookie year.

Cooks is an excellent pick for a team that already has weapons in the passing game. That's not us. We need a legit #1 receiver or tight end.

If we were able to trade back from 23 to say... 26 and pick up a 2nd rounder, then I could see us going Amaro in the first and coming back for a WR with the next pick.

Riley doesn't play his freshmen very much. The Beavers were also uber-bad that year, with a freshman QB (who played out of necessity).

For the Chiefs, I personally believe that a fast TE or a pass rushing OLB would have the biggest impact on the Chiefs. My post was more about being a fan of Cooks.

So if Cooks jumps 36", his reach and catch radius would still be considerably smaller than Watkins, so what was the point in posting that? Lol. If he had a 40" vertical and Watkins only jumped 30", then you could make a case. But a 2" difference in their verticals doesn't make up for about 8" in reach.

My point was about his athleticism for those morons that say he is only a slot receiver in the NFL. As for your point, Cooks is faster with better change of direction than Watkins, which may make up for some of that "catch radius" (note - this is not a bash on Watkins; just a comparison with arguably the best WR in this draft).

Jakemall
02-26-2014, 11:45 AM
Beckham, Moncrief and Mathews are my personal draft crushes at WR.

OldSchool
02-26-2014, 12:17 PM
My point was about his athleticism for those morons that say he is only a slot receiver in the NFL. As for your point, Cooks is faster with better change of direction than Watkins, which may make up for some of that "catch radius" (note - this is not a bash on Watkins; just a comparison with arguably the best WR in this draft).
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2006-07-05-elite-wr_x.htm
When asked how Smith compensates for his lack of height, Henning laughs.

"With a 43-inch vertical jump," he says. "You're talking about a guy who can dunk backwards. He explodes to the ball, even when he's trying to jump over people. He gets tall in a hurry."

That's 7" more vertical range than Cooks.

Cooks is a lot closer to Austin than he is to Steve Smith. He's a slot guy and you would be a fool to try to depend on him as an outside #1 type receiver. Let him play in the slot and work in space where he's best at. Sure you can line him up outside, but he's going to have limited success there. You want him facing the 3rd best corner on the other team, not the top 2 cover guys.

saphojunkie
02-26-2014, 12:18 PM
Riley doesn't play his freshmen very much. The Beavers were also uber-bad that year, with a freshman QB (who played out of necessity).

For the Chiefs, I personally believe that a fast TE or a pass rushing OLB would have the biggest impact on the Chiefs. My post was more about being a fan of Cooks.



I was actually talking about Tayvon Austin last year in St. Louis. Personally I never really liked that pick. I know he's a playmaker, but that team needed a workhorse.

The funny thing is that they'll probably get one now in either Watkins or Evans. And then Tayvon will blow up.

Which could be Cooks for us... But I think I'd just rather go with Beckham or Lee - someone who can take over for Bowe in a couple years. I'm not saying Cooks is a gimmick WR - he's definitely not a midget like McCluster or Devon Wylie (!), but I'm just... I don't know.

Fucking Baldwin has just made me totally gunshy on receivers across the board. But we absolutely need one.

In58men
02-26-2014, 12:22 PM
Even without Albert, I think our line just needs shuffled and has the potential to be really good.

LT fisher
Lg Hudson
C Kush
RG Schwartz
RT Stephenson

That line has the makings of a really solid unit.

Schwartz is on his way out according to some rumors.

OldSchool
02-26-2014, 12:31 PM
Beckham, Moncrief and Mathews are my personal draft crushes at WR.

I would like Moncreif if he didn't drop the ball so much and just look plain lazy at times. For a WR of his size, his run blocking leaves something to be desired as he can get pushed around by much smaller corners. Reminds me way too much of Dwayne Bowe.

Matthews is a try-hard with an incredible work ethic and great measurables; I'm just not sure that he has the ability to separate at the NFL level because he struggled with it in college against decent corners. Also, for how big his hands are, he was inconsistent at catching the ball in 2013, just like Moncreif.

Beckham has fringe #1 measurables. Best thing about him is his ability to go up and get the ball and his bigger than normal hands for his size as well as his relatively long arms at 32 3/4". Explosive player with a 38.5" vertical and it's on display in game tape as well so he's not just a workout warrior. He has the catch radius of a much larger WR with the ability of a smaller WR to create separation with his explosion. He does have concentration issues once in a while though and will look to run before securing the catch. Needs to be more consistent in reeling in contested catches as well, his hands are too strong for him to drop as many passes as he does.

This is ridiculous:
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1965879/odell-beckham-kickoff-catch1.gif

And here against my favorite corner in this draft, sorry Verrett, he got you good on this one:

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1965909/beckham1011.gif

If he were more consistent with everything that he flashes as a WR, Beckham would be in discussions with Watkins as the top WR in this class.

Frosty
02-26-2014, 12:50 PM
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2006-07-05-elite-wr_x.htm


That's 7" more vertical range than Cooks.

That's cool and all, Bob, but he jumped 34" at the Combine, 2" less than Cooks. Since we don't know their starting points in the vertical, you can't accurately compare the two. However, assuming Watkins' height isn't a result of a freakishly long head, Watkins has 3" on height and 1.5" on arm length, with the same size hands. Subtract out the 2" difference in the jump, you have Watkins with a max 2.5" difference.

As for the catch radius, Watkins' arms are an 1.5" longer, so it's not like there is a huge difference in the catch radius.

This argument is stupid and pointless (big surprise there, Bob). The point wasn't to bash Watkins or to say Cooks is better; it was just to say Cooks isn't that far off from the best.

Cooks wasn't a household name because he played at Oregon State, not USC or in the SEC, so it appears that people here don't know him or have watched him play (except for Pest and his awesome wife). I was trying to put in a perspective of someone who had watched him play a lot. I am also not pushing for the Chiefs to draft him (though I would be cool with it).

However, you're the guy that said you would rather have Josh Huff over Brandin Cooks (lol), so I figure you're just another delusional Ducks fan.

OldSchool
02-26-2014, 01:11 PM
Cooks wasn't a household name because he played at Oregon State, not USC or in the SEC, so it appears that people here don't know him or have watched him play (except for Pest and his awesome wife). I was trying to put in a perspective of someone who had watched him play a lot. I am also not pushing for the Chiefs to draft him (though I would be cool with it).

However, you're the guy that said you would rather have Josh Huff over Brandin Cooks (lol), so I figure you're just another delusional Ducks fan.
Cooks was ineffective when he lined up against Ekpre Olomu. I'm from California, I went to UC Berkeley. I'm well aware of the fact that Cooks feasted on inferior CB talent in the Pac-12. The only true potential starting NFL level corner that Cooks faced was Ekpre Olomu out of Oregon. Here were the targets he had against Ekpre Olomu.

1st target: 8 yard hitch, complete for 1st down. 0 YAC.

2nd target: 6 yard in route, result- Pass broken up by Ekpre Olomu, Cooks stopped his route cause he had nowhere to go.

3rd target: Deep post in the end zone, result- INT by Ekpre Olomu, no separation created by Cooks. He didn't even fight for the ball and Olomu is just as small as he is.

4th target: Another post about 10 yards, result: Incomplete pass broken up by Ekpre Olomu, again, Cooks had zero separation against the only potential NFL starting caliber CB he faced.

Etc etc. Get the picture? Whenever Cooks lined up outside against a good CB, he couldn't do anything. His only real damage that he did against Oregon in that game was via little underneath screen plays or against the significantly less talented Terrence Mitchell. Cooks is not a #1 WR and should not be thought of as such. He will not have consistent success going up against #1 cover corners in this league. His place is in the slot where he can do his damage against lesser opponents like Victor Cruz does.

Jakemall
02-26-2014, 01:15 PM
I would like Moncreif if he didn't drop the ball so much and just look plain lazy at times. For a WR of his size, his run blocking leaves something to be desired as he can get pushed around by much smaller corners. Reminds me way too much of Dwayne Bowe.

Matthews is a try-hard with an incredible work ethic and great measurables; I'm just not sure that he has the ability to separate at the NFL level because he struggled with it in college against decent corners. Also, for how big his hands are, he was inconsistent at catching the ball in 2013, just like Moncreif.

Beckham has fringe #1 measurables. Best thing about him is his ability to go up and get the ball and his bigger than normal hands for his size as well as his relatively long arms at 32 3/4". Explosive player with a 38.5" vertical and it's on display in game tape as well so he's not just a workout warrior. He has the catch radius of a much larger WR with the ability of a smaller WR to create separation with his explosion. He does have concentration issues once in a while though and will look to run before securing the catch. Needs to be more consistent in reeling in contested catches as well, his hands are too strong for him to drop as many passes as he does.

This is ridiculous:
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1965879/odell-beckham-kickoff-catch1.gif

And here against my favorite corner in this draft, sorry Verrett, he got you good on this one:

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1965909/beckham1011.gif

If he were more consistent with everything that he flashes as a WR, Beckham would be in discussions with Watkins as the top WR in this class.

Re: Moncrief, are we talking about the same guy? He's a great blocker. He also never seems to get caught from behind. He's a vertical threat compared to Bowe's. I think he takes the top off of defenses but will fight for the ball also.

I agree that Matthews is a motor guy...which is what I like about him. He probably learned that from his older cousin. But he's not slow like you're suggesting. 4.46 is a very solid WR speed.

OldSchool
02-26-2014, 01:19 PM
Re: Moncrief, are we talking about the same guy? He's a great blocker. He also never seems to get caught from behind. He's a vertical threat compared to Bowe's. I think he takes the top off of defenses but will fight for the ball also.

I agree that Matthews is a motor guy...which is what I like about him. He probably learned that from his older cousin. But he's not slow like you're suggesting. 4.46 is a very solid WR speed.

Yes, same Moncrief. To me he looks like he takes plays off.

As far as Matthews goes, he does not look like a 4.46 guy at all; which is why I was surprised when he timed that fast in the 40.

Frosty
02-26-2014, 01:29 PM
Cooks was ineffective when he lined up against Ekpre Olomu. I'm from California, I went to UC Berkeley. I'm well aware of the fact that Cooks feasted on inferior CB talent in the Pac-12. The only true potential starting NFL level corner that Cooks faced was Ekpre Olomu out of Oregon. Here were the targets he had against Ekpre Olomu.

1st target: 8 yard hitch, complete for 1st down. 0 YAC.

2nd target: 6 yard in route, result- Pass broken up by Ekpre Olomu, Cooks stopped his route cause he had nowhere to go.

3rd target: Deep post in the end zone, result- INT by Ekpre Olomu, no separation created by Cooks. He didn't even fight for the ball and Olomu is just as small as he is.

4th target: Another post about 10 yards, result: Incomplete pass broken up by Ekpre Olomu, again, Cooks had zero separation against the only potential NFL starting caliber CB he faced.

Etc etc. Get the picture? Whenever Cooks lined up outside against a good CB, he couldn't do anything. His only real damage that he did against Oregon in that game was via little underneath screen plays or against the significantly less talented Terrence Mitchell. Cooks is not a #1 WR and should not be thought of as such. He will not have consistent success going up against #1 cover corners in this league. His place is in the slot where he can do his damage against lesser opponents like Victor Cruz does.


You make it sound like Ekpre Olomu covered him one on one in the Civil War. The Ducks rolled their coverage towards Cooks and did everything they could to take him out of the game. They paid so much attention to Cooks, the Beavers were able to run at will, something they hadn't been able to do all season.

The Cal connections explains a lot. LMAO

Jakemall
02-26-2014, 01:40 PM
Yes, same Moncrief. To me he looks like he takes plays off.

As far as Matthews goes, he does not look like a 4.46 guy at all; which is why I was surprised when he timed that fast in the 40.

I have watched mostly highlights and reviews and not heard (or seen) that on Moncrief. Can you point me to something that demonstratights that?

The highlights I've seen show Mathews has some speed...but he was also hampered with a QB that really didn't have much of an arm. I see him adjusting his routes quite a bit.

OldSchool
02-26-2014, 01:43 PM
You make it sound like Ekpre Olomu covered him one on one in the Civil War. The Ducks rolled their coverage towards Cooks and did everything they could to take him out of the game. They paid so much attention to Cooks, the Beavers were able to run at will, something they hadn't been able to do all season.

The Cal connections explains a lot. LMAO

On those plays he lined up with Olomu and it didn't matter who might have been way on top, he still failed to get separation when Olomu was sticking him. Against Terrence Mitchell, Cooks did significantly better. Sorry if Cooks isn't a #1 but he just isn't. I know you're a Beaver but don't be blinded. Cooks will be a tremendous slot player, I just don't think his home in the NFL is on the outside; at least, not if you want him to be as effective and successful as possible.

OldSchool
02-26-2014, 01:49 PM
I have watched mostly highlights and reviews and not heard (or seen) that on Moncrief. Can you point me to something that demonstratights that?

The highlights I've seen show Mathews has some speed...but he was also hampered with a QB that really didn't have much of an arm. I see him adjusting his routes quite a bit.

Mixed bag vs Auburn. Yes, his QB sucks donkey.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Wj6MJcyV24Y?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is how pretty much all of his games are. Same inconsistency as Bowe.

Easy 6
02-26-2014, 06:50 PM
Noir Robert may well be right about Cooks, he's watched the guy a lot more than I have, and his opinions seem informed... but I still believe Cooks can be, at the LEAST, an exceptional, game breaking #2.

Whats not being accounted for in his take is NFL level coaching ie; route running and hand skills... and old fashioned maturity that comes with time in the big leagues.

He may never be a true #1, but at worst he's a take it to the house 2 or 3 on any given play type of player... cuts on a dime, instant burst, top end speed... all ingredients for success at the next level.

Sorter
02-26-2014, 06:53 PM
I know we need lots of help in other positions, but I'd like to draft two receivers from this class

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/cheers_leonardo_dicaprio.gif

Frosty
02-26-2014, 07:10 PM
Noir Robert may well be right about Cooks, he's watched the guy a lot more than I have, and his opinions seem informed... but I still believe Cooks can be, at the LEAST, an exceptional, game breaking #2.

Whats not being accounted for in his take is NFL level coaching ie; route running and hand skills... and old fashioned maturity that comes with time in the big leagues.

He may never be a true #1, but at worst he's a take it to the house 2 or 3 on any given play type of player... cuts on a dime, instant burst, top end speed... all ingredients for success at the next level.

Here's a shot of Ekpre-Olomu (14) shutting down Cooks in the Civil War:

http://bloggingthebeast.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Cooks-respect-1.png


This play against the Huskies was sick:

http://bloggingthebeast.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Cooks-YAC.gif

Sorter
02-26-2014, 07:11 PM
Don't know how you could be upset with Cooks or Beckham.

Frosty
02-26-2014, 07:12 PM
Oh, and this is why OldBob doesn't like Cooks:

http://bloggingthebeast.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Cooks-YAC-2.gif


:)

OldSchool
02-26-2014, 07:28 PM
Here's a shot of Ekpre-Olomu (14) shutting down Cooks in the Civil War:

http://bloggingthebeast.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Cooks-respect-1.png


Sure, take a screen shot and post it as proof. On that play cooks was lined up across the field from Ekpre Olomu, his coaches knew that he couldn't get open against Olomu so they tried to line him up against Terrence Mitchell instead. But what happened on that play was Cooks ran a deep post and Olomu had deep thirds on his side and saw where the QB was looking so he ran over to help defend the pass from across the field. Again, Cooks couldn't get open when lined up against Olomu. The only receptions he got when lined up against Olomu was the first dig route and then a few quick screen stuff. He couldn't get open on a route past 10 yards on Olomu. And I could care less about the Bears right now, we suck even worse without Tedford. You realize that we had virtually the worst defense in all of college football in 2013 right?

I say that Cooks couldn't get open on the outside against a NFL starting level corner and you go post a clip of Cooks facing Practice Squad, at best, level players. And wtf is Bob?

OldSchool
02-26-2014, 07:31 PM
This pretty much sums up Cooks vs Olomu.

http://dailyemerald.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/131129.mca_.ODE_.fbc_.OSU_.0461.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRxO9uRhQ8luEeVgL1PCVkLjjLT5AbvwVObnBhAwyVGyeM2EPsPMQ

Frosty
02-26-2014, 07:42 PM
Sure, take a screen shot and post it as proof.

I was reading an article on Philly.com (http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/eagles/Eagles-notes-Brandin-Cooks-review-Chips-recruits-and-DeMarcus-Ware-in-Philly.html) about Cooks and saw that. I just posted it to give you some shit. Lighten the fuck up, man.

Easy 6
02-26-2014, 07:55 PM
End result of these most recent posts... I'll be absolutely thrilled with Cooks, but if they decide to go taller/slightly more longstrider, I'll still be happy.

Just gimme some damn upgrades, big and leapy, short and squirty... just do some IMPROVING... its honestly tough trying to figure out what Reid and co. want in this first real (scouting department fully enrolled) draft of the regime.

Extremely interesting draft no matter what happens, gah I cant wait... football is life.

Frosty
02-26-2014, 07:59 PM
End result of these most recent posts... I'll be absolutely thrilled with Cooks, but if they decide to go taller/slightly more longstrider, I'll still be happy.

Just gimme some damn upgrades, big and leapy, short and squirty... just do some IMPROVING... its honestly tough trying to figure out what Reid and co. want in this first real (scouting department fully enrolled) draft of the regime.

Extremely interesting draft no matter what happens, gah I cant wait... football is life.

Like I said before, I am not pushing for the Chiefs to take Cooks. I'm mostly just hoping he doesn't go to the Raiders or Broncos. That would suck.

OldSchool
02-26-2014, 08:28 PM
Like I said before, I am not pushing for the Chiefs to take Cooks. I'm mostly just hoping he doesn't go to the Raiders or Broncos. That would suck.
Yeah, we already have enough trouble dealing with Welker in the slot and guys like TY Hilton. I hope that Dorsey realizes that sometimes fast and slightly smaller is better than big and slower.

OldSchool
02-26-2014, 08:33 PM
I was reading an article on Philly.com (http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/eagles/Eagles-notes-Brandin-Cooks-review-Chips-recruits-and-DeMarcus-Ware-in-Philly.html) about Cooks and saw that. I just posted it to give you some shit. Lighten the **** up, man.
NEVER!:)

But seriously, if Beckham, Lee, and Evans are all gone, I would want Cooks if we were going to take a receiver there. Reid found a way to milk McCluster for 53 receptions and 511 yards in his first season here. What would he do with Brandin Cooks in Dexter's old role? :drool:

Ragged Robin
02-26-2014, 09:01 PM
Trade down and pick up Matthews and Abbrederis. 'nuff said

OldSchool
02-26-2014, 10:12 PM
Trade down and pick up Matthews and Abbrederis. 'nuff said

Problem is, we're kind of in a bad spot unless someone falls to us that another team really really wants. Teams who want to trade up will most likely be shooting for the top 15 or top 20. We're just out of that range. I'm sure that someone is going to want to leapfrog us for a wr/safety if there is a run on them early.

saphojunkie
02-27-2014, 10:10 AM
Damn, Landry has some big ass hands.

OldSchool
02-27-2014, 10:14 AM
Damn, Landry has some big ass hands.

Too bad he is so slow though. He could be as good as Boldin is though, he makes some insane catches.

saphojunkie
02-27-2014, 10:53 AM
Too bad he is so slow though. He could be as good as Boldin is though, he makes some insane catches.

Beckham in the first, landry in the third. All LSU, all the time.

Jakemall
02-27-2014, 11:43 AM
Problem is, we're kind of in a bad spot unless someone falls to us that another team really really wants. Teams who want to trade up will most likely be shooting for the top 15 or top 20. We're just out of that range. I'm sure that someone is going to want to leapfrog us for a wr/safety if there is a run on them early.

This is true..you just have to be ready for both possibilities. Dorsey has said pretty clearly that he'll go BPA regardless of what position. It's a good place to be when you can afford to do that as an organization.

planetdoc
02-27-2014, 01:43 PM
Problem is, we're kind of in a bad spot

I disagree. A lot of trades happen in the area where the chiefs draft because it is more affordable.


unless someone falls to us that another team really really wants.

that is the case with any trade. no team will waste ammunition to trade up for a player they dont really really want.

RunKC
02-27-2014, 01:54 PM
I'm on board with Sac. Odell Beckham is an incredible talent

planetdoc
02-27-2014, 02:00 PM
http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article-2/One-on-One-with-Chiefs-GM-John-Dorsey/345aa419-b964-402c-913d-b286b23bbb55

Ferrin: What is your overall evaluation of the entire 2014 NFL Draft Class?

Dorsey: "It’s another sign of the times, larger receivers, who will display the unique ability to have size and speed to play this game. We’ve always believed that size matters and I think this class is no different from the classes of the last couple years."

Based on the 2013 draft, Dorsey draft combine workout warriors. If he is to be believed, than he will be interested in tall (6'+) wrs who had a good workout (i.e. speed). Here are the guys who meet that criteria:

1. Sammy Watkins 6-0.5, 211 4.43
2. Mike Evans 6-4.5, 231 4.53
3. Jordan Matthews 6-3, 212 4.46
4. Paul Richardson 6-0, 175 4.40
5. Martavis Bryant 6-3.5, 211 4.42
6. Donte Moncrief 6-2, 221 4.40
7. Mike Davis 6-0, 197 4.45
8. Jared Abrederis 6-1, 195 4.50
9. Kevin Norwood 6-2, 198 4.48
10. Jeff Janis 6-2.5, 219 4.42
11. Quincy Enunwa 6-2, 225 4.45
12. L'Damian Washington 6-3.5, 195 4.46
13. Shaq Evans 6-1, 213 4.51
14. Matt Hazel 6-1, 198 4.50
15. Derel Walker 6-2, 185 4.50

Frosty
02-27-2014, 02:15 PM
Was Dorsey part of the decision to draft Randall Cobb? Cobb is almost the exact same size as Brandin Cooks. :shrug:

planetdoc
02-27-2014, 02:20 PM
Was Dorsey part of the decision to draft Randall Cobb? Cobb is almost the exact same size as Brandin Cooks. :shrug:

great point. Cobb was drafted in 2011, and at that time Dorsey was director of College scouting for Green Bay.

I would think he was part of the decision, but I dont know how much of a final say he had. On his wiki page, Dorsey is credited with drafting Greg Jennings who is also 5'11''.

Guess we will have to see how it plays out and what Dorsey seems to consider "tall."

Frosty
02-27-2014, 02:25 PM
great point. Cobb was drafted in 2011, and at that time Dorsey was director of College scouting for Green Bay.

I would think he was part of the decision, but I dont know how much of a final say he had. On his wiki page, Dorsey is credited with drafting Greg Jennings who is also 5'11''.

I might have to adjust my criteria to at least 5'11 instead of at least 6'

Of course, they also have the 6'3" Nelson and 6'1" Jones. Then you look at the WRs that he brought into KC in Avery and Jenkins and now the CFL guy. There doesn't seem to be a pattern with size. He does seem to like speed guys.

planetdoc
02-27-2014, 02:28 PM
Jenkins was trading 1 bust for another. Face saving move for both franchises.

CFL guy was cheap (likely replacement for McCluster)

Avery was the need for speed after 2012 wrs were exposed for being slow. Chiefs didnt break the bank for him.

We will have to wait and see if Dorsey's Wr philosophy is the same as his CB philosophy.

Frosty
02-27-2014, 02:32 PM
The trade was trading speed for size. The Chiefs didn't need to save face because Dorsey and Reid didn't draft Baldwin. He just didn't fit, so they got what they could for him.

planetdoc
02-27-2014, 02:39 PM
I'm not even sure if they thought he didnt "fit."

It might have been that they didnt think he was a good enough football player, and that thought process seems to be validated based on how little he produced in SF.

Frosty
02-27-2014, 02:41 PM
BTW, planetdoc, I appreciate what you are saying here but I have serious doubts that Dorsey is just going to draft someone he likes with no input from Reid and what would fit in Reid's system. The Eagles were drafting guys like Maclin and Jackson and GB has a guy like Cobb who would fit into that system. If they go WR, I think it will be someone along those lines and not some tall possession WR.

The Pest
02-27-2014, 02:41 PM
It's more of a size to speed ratio....not just tall guys who are fast.

planetdoc
02-27-2014, 02:47 PM
I have serious doubts that Dorsey is just going to draft someone he likes with no input from Reid and what would fit in Reid's system.

Oh, I agree with you. Whenever they talk they say they have a shared philosophy. I think we can both agree what that philosophy is in regards to cornerbacks. I suspect that philosophy is the same for WR, but not sure.

Ragged Robin
02-27-2014, 08:38 PM
Problem is, we're kind of in a bad spot unless someone falls to us that another team really really wants. Teams who want to trade up will most likely be shooting for the top 15 or top 20. We're just out of that range. I'm sure that someone is going to want to leapfrog us for a wr/safety if there is a run on them early.

Unless a team picking early wants to trade back up late in the round to pick up their guy for something like this year's and next year's 2nd or something like that.

Of course, they also have the 6'3" Nelson and 6'1" Jones. Then you look at the WRs that he brought into KC in Avery and Jenkins and now the CFL guy. There doesn't seem to be a pattern with size. He does seem to like speed guys.

Yeah there doesn't seem to be a consistency unless Reid is telling him to pick up smaller speed guys. All the receivers we've picked up other than Hemmingway fit the little dood receiver profile.

OldSchool
02-27-2014, 09:23 PM
There really is consistency in how they draft. Dorsey is a size-speed ratio guy for pretty much every position. Just look at our previous draft class and it's similar to what he has been a part of drafting before. Big guys who can move and run relatively fast, the smaller they are the faster they have to be. Of course that player has to have good production to go along with the speed/size, but Dorsey does make exceptions and is willing to take chances and a superior physical specimen (Fisher over Joeckel, Knile Davis over every RB that was left, Sanders Commings, small school Catapano, Travis Kelce and his character concerns, etc).

milkman
02-27-2014, 09:36 PM
Seems there's some pigeon holing going on with very little samples to hole the pigeon with.

OldSchool
02-27-2014, 09:45 PM
Seems there's some pigeon holing going on with very little samples to hole the pigeon with.

Nah, I looked at the picks that he was involved with in GB as well. The vast majority of them were very similar to what he did with our picks this year.

OldSchool
02-27-2014, 10:04 PM
Packers 1st picks spanning from 2005:

2005: Aaron Rodgers, QB, CAL: 6'2", 4.71 40
(2nd round pick was Nick Collins out of Bethune, he ran a 4.36 at 5'11" and 206 pounds)

2006: AJ Hawk, LB, Ohio State: 6'1", 248 pounds, 4.59 40

2007: Justin Harrell, DT, Tenn: 6'4.3", 300 pounds, 5.04 40 with a 1.67 10 yard split

2008: Jordy Nelson, WR, Kansas State: 6'2.5", 217 pounds, 4.51 40 with a 1.50 10 yard split

2009: BJ Raji, DT, Boston College: 6'1.4", 337 pounds, 5.12 40 with a 1.69 10 yard split.

2010: Bryan Bulaga, OT, Iowa: 6'5.3", 315 pounds, 5.20 40 with a 1.78 10-yard split
(His 2nd round pick was a 6'3" DE who weighed 294 pounds and ran a 4.87 40 with a 1.60 10-yard split)

2011: Derek Sherrod, OT, Miss. State: 6'5.3", 321 pounds, 5.18 40 with a 1.81 10-yard split. (2nd round pick was Randall Cobb who we all know is an explosive play-maker)

2012: Nick Perry, OLB/DE, USC: 6'2.6", 271 pounds, 4.55 40 with a 1.51 10-yard split

The majority of the Packers picks consisted of players that were similar to this. Our first draft class was consistent with this as well. I think it's safe to assume that, when it comes down to it, Dorsey actually does value height-speed-weight pretty highly when he is looking at prospects.

Frosty
02-27-2014, 10:56 PM
Yeah there doesn't seem to be a consistency unless Reid is telling him to pick up smaller speed guys. All the receivers we've picked up other than Hemmingway fit the little dood receiver profile.

Hemingway was a leftover Pioli pick.

Frosty
02-27-2014, 10:57 PM
Seems there's some pigeon holing going on with very little samples to hole the pigeon with.

Yeah, I don't know how much you can extrapolate from one draft. Dorsey was in GB but he didn't have final say.

OldSchool
02-27-2014, 11:13 PM
Yeah, I don't know how much you can extrapolate from one draft. Dorsey was in GB but he didn't have final say.

Still, it says something when he pretty much followed the same trend that they had going in GB. Plus, he was head of their scouting department so he had a ton of influence in who they selected, he just wasn't the one who actually made the final call. Dorsey gets a lot of credit for the players that GB has had success with, Director of College scouting from 2000-2012.

Now that he is making the calls himself, judging from his first year selections, he hasn't deviated from the trend that GB had going. It's not shocking that every player he selected was among the most explosive and athletic at their given positions when they were on the board.

Sanders was arguably the fastest FS prospect in that draft class. No other safety ran a 4.41 at that combine I think. Closest was Earl Wolff with a 4.42.

Frosty
02-27-2014, 11:29 PM
Still, it says something when he pretty much followed the same trend that they had going in GB. Plus, he was head of their scouting department so he had a ton of influence in who they selected, he just wasn't the one who actually made the final call. Dorsey gets a lot of credit for the players that GB has had success with, Director of College scouting from 2000-2012.

Now that he is making the calls himself, judging from his first year selections, he hasn't deviated from the trend that GB had going. It's not shocking that every player he selected was among the most explosive and athletic at their given positions when they were on the board.

Sanders was arguably the fastest FS prospect in that draft class. No other safety ran a 4.41 at that combine I think. Closest was Earl Wolff with a 4.42.

Dorsey did a great job with UDFAs and picking up players off the scrap heap. However, I would feel a little better if the drafted players had been more productive. Hopefully most of it was just due to the injuries and that was just a freak thing.

OldSchool
02-28-2014, 12:13 AM
Dorsey did a great job with UDFAs and picking up players off the scrap heap. However, I would feel a little better if the drafted players had been more productive. Hopefully most of it was just due to the injuries and that was just a freak thing.

Yeah, I'm hoping that too. I saw good things from Knile Davis, Catapano, Kush, and Fisher later in the year. The real wildcards are Kelce and Commings. The rest at least showed flashes and improvement in their rookie year.

htismaqe
02-28-2014, 07:44 AM
Yeah, I'm hoping that too. I saw good things from Knile Davis, Catapano, Kush, and Fisher later in the year. The real wildcards are Kelce and Commings. The rest at least showed flashes and improvement in their rookie year.

Fisher ended up in the tub. That's not showing improvement later in the year.

planetdoc
02-28-2014, 08:48 AM
It's more of a size to speed ratio....not just tall guys who are fast.

you make a good point. I think your correct.

There is an NFL Insider article (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9825176/dallas-cowboys-understand-formula-discovering-sleeper-wide-receivers-espn-magazine) (dont have access) talking about a size/speed formula.

Someone else created a Height Adjusted Speed Score (http://moneyinthebananastand.com/2013/04/24/dominator-rating-height-adjusted-speed-score-and-the-2013-receiver-class/) (HASS), but I havent seen the formula.

This is the most detailed study I have found looking analyzing 816 wide receivers (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IPawJ_J3AOpHhSKolqSdri_mr7YbDKgBQxEAGK2E4Vo/pub).

in that study, the author used an Explosive Power ratio
a metric comprised of a player’s height, weight, vertical jump and broad jump. It attempts to quantify how much power and explosion a player can physically generate in his play.

along with other filters such as Speed Score, 3-cone time, and production.

Nice to look at, but dont think its all that accurate.

OldSchool
02-28-2014, 02:32 PM
Not sure if any of you guys have read this article or if it's Q but:

But it's also about the, ahem, "right 53," to coin a favorite Piolism. Which is where Saaty comes in. Or rather, Dorsey and Saaty. Decision Lens produces "decision-making" programs -- in the very simplest of terms, software that applies sabermetrics to the corporate world.

Who's the best leader for this group? What's the best use of our allocated resources? How can we get the most bang for our buck? A system that helps the A's interpret and homogenize their scouting reports could also be used to, say, help determine the next branch manager for a particular firm.

Dorsey was introduced to Saaty's work while acting as director of college scouting with the Green Bay Packers; the club instituted Decision Lens before the 2009 NFL Draft, and came away with defensive tackle B. J. Raji, linebacker Clay Matthews and tackle T.J. Lang in rounds 1 through 4.

"When he was with the Packers, he immediately understood the value of something like this," said Saaty, whose program the Chiefs integrated for the first time this past fall.

Even with a larger-than-expected increase in the salary cap for 2014 -- to roughly $130 million, NFL.com reported -- the Chiefs are projected to have just $6.79 million in cap room to play with, according to projections at OverTheCap.com. After radically overhauling the Kansas City roster last winter and spring, now Dorsey and coach Andy Reid must try to find a way to squeeze back into their skinny jeans again.

"I'm a big believer that you build your team through the draft," Reid told reporters in Indy on Thursday. "Free agency can be a bit of a tease at times, and I think you have to be real careful with it."

The fewer dollars you have to spend, the more particular you have to be with the cash at hand. You need pluggers. Glue guys.

"The kind of guys (in) the draft that are going to be high performers that can get good value," Saaty said. "We currently have a financial analysis tool that says, 'Here you pay this guy and here is what he does against your objectives.'

"How do you blend judgments with metrics? That's really what this is all about."

It's about playing the guitar with your teeth, then lighting it on fire. Now excuse Dorsey while he kisses the sky.

Seems like Dorsey is trying his hand at the NfL's version of moneyball.

Jakemall
02-28-2014, 03:15 PM
Not sure if any of you guys have read this article or if it's Q but:



Seems like Dorsey is trying his hand at the NfL's version of moneyball.

If it works, awesome.

htismaqe
02-28-2014, 06:05 PM
If it works, awesome.

If it doesn't work, it's just being cheap.

OldSchool
02-28-2014, 06:11 PM
If it doesn't work, it's just being cheap.

It's more about trying to maximize your resources vs pinching your pennies.

htismaqe
03-01-2014, 07:08 PM
It's more about trying to maximize your resources vs pinching your pennies.

It was about maximizing resources in an economic model where some teams are limited financially and others aren't.

Football has revenue sharing and a salary cap. "Moneyball" is a novel concept but that's about it.

Jakemall
03-01-2014, 10:18 PM
It was about maximizing resources in an economic model where some teams are limited financially and others aren't.

Football has revenue sharing and a salary cap. "Moneyball" is a novel concept but that's about it.

You can still play the same game and adjust it for your budget. Again like Htis said, it is about Maximizing resources.

kcbubb
03-03-2014, 01:13 PM
my favorite Wr for our first pick at this point would be Jordan Matthews. unmatched production and great speed for his size. he has superstar potential as a number 1 WR. liked cook's production, but lets be honest, he doesn't catch anywhere near that amount of balls in the sec. I like him as much as beckham but I feel they're both pretty limited to the the slot, or can play #2 with a true #1 wide out on the opposite side. Matthews reminds me of his cousin jerry rice. he might not be the flashiest Wr but he produces game in and game out, year in and year out.

This. Listen to the interview from 11/21 on the Jim Rome show. 2/14 is good too.

http://jimrome.com/2014/02/14/jordan-matthews/

Matthews' attitude is extremely rare for a WR. He is a winner. He's a big athlete too. 6'3" 212 lbs and a 4.46 40. Set all the SEC receiving records. GREAT HANDS!

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jordan-matthews?id=2543500

xztop123
03-03-2014, 06:39 PM
Brandin Cooks set several combine records for quickness at 190 lbs. (meaning hes timing quicker than the midget 170 guys like Mccluster, Tavon Austin, Dri Archer) and he's doing at 20 + pounds heavier.

Freak of nature + I think the first or second best WR stats in NCAA? print please

OldSchool
03-03-2014, 09:41 PM
Brandin Cooks set several combine records for quickness at 190 lbs. (meaning hes timing quicker than the midget 170 guys like Mccluster, Tavon Austin, Dri Archer) and he's doing at 20 + pounds heavier.

Freak of nature + I think the first or second best WR stats in NCAA? print please

That's why he's going to the Jets to be their slot guy.

Jakemall
03-03-2014, 10:50 PM
It was about maximizing resources in an economic model where some teams are limited financially and others aren't.

Football has revenue sharing and a salary cap. "Moneyball" is a novel concept but that's about it.

What shouldn't be lost here is that another team with money took the moneyball concept and applied it to their budget and had fantastic results.

htismaqe
03-04-2014, 07:53 AM
What shouldn't be lost here is that another team with money took the moneyball concept and applied it to their budget and had fantastic results.

Then it's not Money Ball anymore, is it?

jonzie04
03-04-2014, 01:01 PM
[QUOTE=kcbubb;10464115]This. Listen to the interview from 11/21 on the Jim Rome show. 2/14 is good too.



Matthews' attitude is extremely rare for a WR. He is a winner. He's a big athlete too. 6'3" 212 lbs and a 4.46 40. Set all the SEC receiving records. GREAT HANDS!



a lot of people say all of the right things, and most of them come off a bit rehearsed to me in interviews, but I can tell he's a guy that means what he says, and practices what he preaches. I can't wait to see how his career goes. hopefully its in a red or white uni. thanks for sharing!

Jakemall
03-04-2014, 01:39 PM
Then it's not Money Ball anymore, is it?

It is because it is still the use of sabermetrics to determine a player's value as opposed to the traditional items. It is just a better tool...but when you put more money into it works even better.

Many teams do it now which reduced the advantage the As had.

OldSchool
03-04-2014, 04:14 PM
[QUOTE=kcbubb;10464115]This. Listen to the interview from 11/21 on the Jim Rome show. 2/14 is good too.



Matthews' attitude is extremely rare for a WR. He is a winner. He's a big athlete too. 6'3" 212 lbs and a 4.46 40. Set all the SEC receiving records. GREAT HANDS!



a lot of people say all of the right things, and most of them come off a bit rehearsed to me in interviews, but I can tell he's a guy that means what he says, and practices what he preaches. I can't wait to see how his career goes. hopefully its in a red or white uni. thanks for sharing!
Yup. He and Carr worked together after practice at the Senior Bowl on endzone routes. They got a couple of other guys to join in later as well.

Jakemall
03-05-2014, 08:21 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46395/349/donte-moncrief-metric-allstar


I really like Moncrief. I hope he ends up with either the 9ers or the Chiefs. Mathews is another one of my draft crushes.

OldSchool
03-05-2014, 10:17 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46395/349/donte-moncrief-metric-allstar


I really like Moncrief. I hope he ends up with either the 9ers or the Chiefs. Mathews is another one of my draft crushes.

I think that after the combine and pro day that he had, someone is going to pull the trigger on Moncreif before he reaches our 3rd pick.

Jakemall
03-05-2014, 11:15 PM
I think that after the combine and pro day that he had, someone is going to pull the trigger on Moncreif before he reaches our 3rd pick.

You're right. I'm actually hoping for the Chiefs to trade back and grab him.

htismaqe
03-06-2014, 08:21 AM
It is because it is still the use of sabermetrics to determine a player's value as opposed to the traditional items. It is just a better tool...but when you put more money into it works even better.

Many teams do it now which reduced the advantage the As had.

That type of statistical analysis is quite unique to baseball. I guess if it makes people feel better that they think Dorsey is doing something special, more power to them.

Me, I tend to look at things more realistically than that.

Jakemall
03-06-2014, 11:17 AM
That type of statistical analysis is quite unique to baseball. I guess if it makes people feel better that they think Dorsey is doing something special, more power to them.

Me, I tend to look at things more realistically than that.

Now this I agree with.

We all hope the GM has a system that works. My feeling is that he should stick to the system and the assigned values rather than over pay for any player.

ChiefMojo
03-06-2014, 02:19 PM
Beckham or Cooks... Call it a day.

Rudy tossed tigger's salad
03-06-2014, 11:15 PM
I remember how pumped I was about the 04 class

planetdoc
03-08-2014, 11:03 PM
I calculated the "Speed Score" for this yrs WRs.

Speed Score is Football Outsiders' metric for evaluating running back prospects. It's built on the simple idea that, because smaller backs tend to run faster than larger backs, we should be more impressed by a 4.5-second 40-yard dash from a 220-pound back than the same clock reading from a 170-pound back. As such, Speed Score incorporates a back's official time in the 40-yard dash with his weight to produce a measure of his speed given his size using the formula, (Weight * 200)/(40 time^4). As a guide, we consider a 100 Speed Score 100 as average, with anything below 80 serving as a giant red flag, and anything above 120 serving as a giant neon sign. Kniles Davis had the best in last yrs draft, and I think that Dorsey relies heavily on metrics when drafting. His 2013 draft picks were all workout/combine warriors.

Notables:

Abbrederis 95.1
Beckham 102.8
Benjamin 106.3
Bryant 110.6
Coleman 104.1
Cooks 107.5
Enunwa 114.8
Evans M. 109.7
Evans Q. 103
Fowler 104
Janis 114.8
Mathews 107.2
Moncrief 117.9
Watkins 109.6
Wilson 105

current chiefs based on combine:
Bowe 106.8
Avery 99.7
Jenkins 104.2
Hemingway 111.7
McCluster 81.7

planetdoc
03-08-2014, 11:22 PM
http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article-2/One-on-One-with-Chiefs-GM-John-Dorsey/345aa419-b964-402c-913d-b286b23bbb55

Ferrin: What is your overall evaluation of the entire 2014 NFL Draft Class?

Dorsey: "It’s another sign of the times, larger receivers, who will display the unique ability to have size and speed to play this game. We’ve always believed that size matters and I think this class is no different from the classes of the last couple years."

Size & Speed
http://i.imgur.com/VVmWHR1.png

Here (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&season=2013&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1) is a list of the top 20 regular season WR of 2013 by receiving yrds:
http://i.imgur.com/UrLOY6S.png

only 4 are under 6' tall. I am sure Dorsey noticed that too.

OldSchool
03-09-2014, 01:27 AM
http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article-2/One-on-One-with-Chiefs-GM-John-Dorsey/345aa419-b964-402c-913d-b286b23bbb55



Size & Speed
http://i.imgur.com/VVmWHR1.png

Here (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&season=2013&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1) is a list of the top 20 regular season WR of 2013 by receiving yrds:

only 4 are under 6' tall. I am sure Dorsey noticed that too.

Problem with the guys you listed. All are inconsistent and display poor hands a lot of the time. There have been tons of Height-Weight-Speed guys who failed in the league because they couldn't do one thing, catch the ball consistently.

That's why Ted Ginn isn't a great WR.

Donnie Avery is no better than a #3 WR.

DHB is no better than a #3-4 and is at best a decoy at this point of his career.

Stephen Hill has sucked.

And the list goes on and on. Lots of speed and size is great, but it doesn't matter if they can't catch consistently and use their size to dominate.

Unfortunately, from what I've seen of them. Janis, Bryant, Moncrief, and Enunwa all currently fall in the DHB, Avery, DHB, etc. category.

I love speed and size in a prospect as much or more than anybody else, but I still wouldn't draft the guys you listed any higher than the 3rd (Moncreif & Bryant) or later.

Saccopoo
03-09-2014, 02:09 AM
Hemingway is a perfect example of why a "size/speed" metric isn't perfect. Yeah, the guy has very good size at 6'1", 230 lbs. and ran a 4.53 at the combine. He also has nice hands and runs good routes. However, you watch him on the field and he's got absolutely zero initial burst. Slow as shit.

It's why he's a great gunner on special teams as he can build up his speed and start moving over a longer field.

Avery and Jenkins are kind of like that too.

McCluster, while he ran a slower 40 time than Hemmingway, has much better initial quickness.

What you really want is a guy that has both. Beckham, Cooks, Watkins, Moncrief have that. (Personally, I think someone is going to get a real gem in Moncrief in this draft. Second round most likely, but I wouldn't be upset if he was the Chiefs first round pick.)

planetdoc
03-09-2014, 08:05 AM
Problem with the guys you listed. All are inconsistent and display poor hands a lot of the time.

I'll have to take your word on it. I havent researched enough to say conclusively.


There have been tons of Height-Weight-Speed guys who failed in the league because they couldn't do one thing, catch the ball consistently.

in general there have been alot of guys who failed in the league.


That's why Ted Ginn isn't a great WR.

Donnie Avery is no better than a #3 WR.

DHB is no better than a #3-4 and is at best a decoy at this point of his career.

Stephen Hill has sucked.

Dont think Ted Gin would have had a great speed score. Although he ran a forty at 4.38, he did it at only 178lbs. His 2013 drop % was 4.4

Avery has had a long career.

DHB was almost a 1k yr receiver in 2011. Although drops may be an issue for him, his real issue has been injuries. His 2013 drop % is 9.4

yes, stephen hill sucks.

Hemingway is a perfect example of why a "size/speed" metric isn't perfect. Yeah, the guy has very good size at 6'1", 230 lbs. and ran a 4.53 at the combine. He also has nice hands and runs good routes. However, you watch him on the field and he's got absolutely zero initial burst. Slow as shit.

It's why he's a great gunner on special teams as he can build up his speed and start moving over a longer field.

I agree with you, but I think that is something he can work on. His 10yrd split of 1.54 isnt bad (i.e. quick enough). He had a great 3-cone.


Avery and Jenkins are kind of like that too.

I would agree about Jenkins, not Avery.


McCluster, while he ran a slower 40 time than Hemmingway, has much better initial quickness.

agree.


What you really want is a guy that has both. Beckham, Cooks, Watkins, Moncrief have that. (Personally, I think someone is going to get a real gem in Moncrief in this draft. Second round most likely, but I wouldn't be upset if he was the Chiefs first round pick.)

Guys who have a high speed score tend to have a low 10yrd split as well, which is a good indicator of quickness. Below are more stats of the top 20 receivers (by receiving yrds) in 2013. The average speed score (without Decker and D. Thomas whose info was not available) is 105.9, and the median is 106.1Drop info was found from sportincharts. (http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2013/) Midgets are in yellow, and those players without info are greyed out.
http://i.imgur.com/nfMwy8W.png

I just dont think its a coincidence that most of the top receivers in the NFL have great speed scores and are tall. That combo probably has a greater likelyhood of turning into a great NFL wr than someone who doesnt have that combo. I'm guessing its because the bigger WR can create vertical seperation. Since the speed score is a combo of weight and speed, those with great speed scores probably have the ability to get off the line of scrimmage (avoid jams) and the speed to seperate. Being "bigger" (weight and height) also helps in the physicality of the game (i.e. the smaller guys probably get beat up more , which leads to injuries, and thus lower stats).

planetdoc
03-09-2014, 09:14 AM
So, based on what dorsey has said (likes size/speed), his previous draft (workout warriors), draft rumours (chiefs raving about big wrs), and need to find a bowe replacement (he can be cut in 2015 for cap savings, and will be 31 at the start of the 2015 season):

1. he probably isnt interested in marquis lee (poor speed score, drop issues and injuries in 2013)

2. Cooks > Beckham

3. guys with a speed score over 105 (avg top 20 nfl wr) that he will look at that might be available when chiefs draft

Benjamin 106.3 (poor route runner, not quick, limited production)
Bryant 110.6 (inconsistent hands, 1354 yrds college career)
Cooks 107.5 (small, great everything else)
Enunwa 114.8 (1500 career yrds)
Janis 114.8 (inconsistent hands, great college production, small school)
Mathews 107.2 (great everything)
Moncrief 117.9 (great everything)

I would bet at least 1 of these 4 [enunwa, janis, mathews, moncrief) are chiefs....if the chiefs draft a wr.

Chiefshrink
03-09-2014, 09:15 AM
Beckham or Cooks... Call it a day.

This right here and I prefer Cooks based on this on the gauntlet drill at the combine. Notice how Beckham slows down and Cooks never down shifts:clap:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNoPvnCUNZM

Chiefshrink
03-09-2014, 09:18 AM
Brandin Cooks set several combine records for quickness at 190 lbs. (meaning hes timing quicker than the midget 170 guys like Mccluster, Tavon Austin, Dri Archer) and he's doing at 20 + pounds heavier.

Freak of nature + I think the first or second best WR stats in NCAA? print please

BINGO ! Not only will he be able to take a hit but deliver one as well and break some tackles unlike DMC.

Saccopoo
03-09-2014, 10:59 AM
I just dont think its a coincidence that most of the top receivers in the NFL have great speed scores and are tall. That combo probably has a greater likelyhood of turning into a great NFL wr than someone who doesnt have that combo. I'm guessing its because the bigger WR can create vertical seperation. Since the speed score is a combo of weight and speed, those with great speed scores probably have the ability to get off the line of scrimmage (avoid jams) and the speed to seperate. Being "bigger" (weight and height) also helps in the physicality of the game (i.e. the smaller guys probably get beat up more , which leads to injuries, and thus lower stats).

And I think that this is where a guy like Beckham is the outlier against the "taller receiver" trend.

While "only" 5'11", he has close to 33" arms and 10" hands (giving him a catch radius of a player that is 6'5") along with an exceptional burst ability shown by his vertical of 38.5", a broad jump of 10'2" and his superb shuttle times of 3.94 seconds and 6.69 seconds in the 20 and 60 yard shuttles respectively.

His official 10 yard split in the 40 was 1.50 as well.

Add to that that he's exceptionally smooth and controlled on his routes, nails his breaks and has hands like vice grips as evidenced by:

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/odell-beckham-one-handed-kickoff-catch-against-georgia.gif

It's why I've felt that he's the best receiver in this draft for a long time now. I feel that Odell Beckham has every single physical tool that a player needs to be a dominant #1 NFL wide receiver.

Right now, I'm having a hard time seeing him last past either the Jets or Baltimore, but if he does and he's there for the Chiefs at #23, the card would be at the podium before the commissioner is done announcing who's on the clock.

Chief Roundup
03-09-2014, 11:10 AM
Who are the WR's that will available in the 3rd or 4th rounds?
I think we take DL/Pass Rusher with our first pick. Then with our 3rd and 4th rounds I feel like we will take OL and WR. Depending on who is there and so on.

Saccopoo
03-09-2014, 11:18 AM
Who are the WR's that will available in the 3rd or 4th rounds?
I think we take DL/Pass Rusher with our first pick. Then with our 3rd and 4th rounds I feel like we will take OL and WR. Depending on who is there and so on.

I think you'll be looking at guys like:

Mike Davis, Texas
Josh Huff, Oregon
Robert Herron, Wyoming
Brandon Coleman, Rutgers

All really, really nice WR prospects. Coleman is an absolute freak at 6'5", 230 lbs. Has a remarkable ability to bust right through press coverage as well.

Huff and Herron are about the same guy - fast, stocky slot guys.

Mike Davis, IMO, is on the same level as a guy like Marquis Lee. I think he's got all the tools and has the potential to be a #1 WR.

Any of these guys immediately upgrades the Chiefs WR position.

Mugsy
03-09-2014, 11:21 AM
I like Jared Abbrederis, WR, Wisconsin if we take one in the third.

OldSchool
03-09-2014, 11:23 AM
I think you'll be looking at guys like:

Mike Davis, Texas
Josh Huff, Oregon
Robert Herron, Wyoming
Brandon Coleman, Rutgers

All really, really nice WR prospects. Coleman is an absolute freak at 6'5", 230 lbs. Has a remarkable ability to bust right through press coverage as well.

Huff and Herron are about the same guy - fast, stocky slot guys.

Mike Davis, IMO, is on the same level as a guy like Marquis Lee. I think he's got all the tools and has the potential to be a #1 WR.

Any of these guys immediately upgrades the Chiefs WR position.
I wonder what Coleman's speed score was. He ran a bit faster than I expected.

planetdoc
03-09-2014, 11:23 AM
And I think that this is where a guy like Beckham is the outlier against the "taller receiver" trend.

I agree with you, but I'm just stating what I think Dorsey does. He will probably see that the chiefs have 2 similar players in Avery and AJ Jenkins (though I realize they have their warts). He probably wont take a risk on "outliers."

I also think Bowe plays a large part in this. Bowe is being paid like a top 5 receiver, but has only gained 1474 yrds in the last 2yrd combined. We can make excuses for it, but I think even bowe knows that 2014 will be a "make or break" year for him. He stated that he plans on losing alot of weight to gain speed and stamina (something he tries to do every offseason with varying degree of success). Chiefs are stuck with Bowe for 2014 because his salary is guaranteed. In 2015, when he is 31 his cap hit $14 million!!

ForeverChiefs58
03-20-2014, 09:28 AM
Florida wide receiver Solomon Patton ran between 4.32 and 4.36 40-yard dash for NFL scouts. Has several upcoming workouts and visits

Jakemall
03-20-2014, 03:24 PM
Thought this was an interesting read.

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46006/349/peshek-top-4-wr-metrics

planetdoc
03-20-2014, 04:00 PM
Florida wide receiver Solomon Patton ran between 4.32 and 4.36 40-yard dash for NFL scouts. Has several upcoming workouts and visits

5'8'', 179lbs.
speed score. 102.79

say no to midgets

Ragged Robin
03-20-2014, 11:42 PM
Coleman/Benjamin/Matthews/Abbrederis plz. Say no to little dude receivers. We already have Avery/Jenkins.

Tribal Warfare
03-21-2014, 02:28 AM
Coleman/Benjamin/Matthews/Abbrederis plz. Say no to little dude receivers. We already have Avery/Jenkins.

LMAO

planetdoc
03-26-2014, 05:24 PM
6-foot-3, 215 pounds Cody Latimer ran the 40-yard dash unofficially today in 4.39 and 4.43 seconds at his campus Pro Day workout. Latimer also registered a 39-inch vertical leap

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-indiana-wr-cody-latimer-runs-439-to-443-at-pro-day-attended-by-ravens-20140326,0,7472275.story

Jakemall
03-26-2014, 08:22 PM
6-foot-3, 215 pounds Cody Latimer ran the 40-yard dash unofficially today in 4.39 and 4.43 seconds at his campus Pro Day workout. Latimer also registered a 39-inch vertical leap

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-indiana-wr-cody-latimer-runs-439-to-443-at-pro-day-attended-by-ravens-20140326,0,7472275.story

He had a big day. That'll push him up a couple rounds...


BTW, he played against Dennard and looked good...that's impressive.

planetdoc
03-27-2014, 07:55 AM
He had a big day. That'll push him up a couple rounds...

Scouts say pro days are a tiny part of their evaluations (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/27/scouts-say-pro-days-are-a-tiny-part-of-their-evaluations/)

“That’s 95 percent of the grade,” Cardinals scout Chris Culmer said of college tape. “Pro day is a little tiny final piece of the puzzle.”

Lions scout Joe Kelleher says that by the time he is attending a prospect’s pro day, he has already watched about half of that player’s final college season. By the time a scout has seen that much of a player on the field, there’s not much that can change about an evaluation based on a workout in shorts and a T-shirt.

“Generally after that fifth, sixth or seventh game it’s not as dramatic as say bumping a guy up two rounds or dropping two rounds, you’re just saying, ‘Hey, he can do this,’ where I didn’t see it in my report before,” Kelleher said.

Jakemall
03-27-2014, 10:49 AM
Scouts say pro days are a tiny part of their evaluations (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/27/scouts-say-pro-days-are-a-tiny-part-of-their-evaluations/)

It is except when someone is a LOT faster than expected. He was. Again, combine that with the fact that he performed well against one of, if not, the best CBs coming out of college.

They expected him to run in the very high 4.4s to 4.5. He ran a 4.39 with a foot that isn't 100%.

Sandy Vagina
03-27-2014, 11:39 AM
I'd be happy if KC or SF selected him in rd 3. :)

planetdoc
03-27-2014, 02:54 PM
NFL Draft 2014: What do you watch when evaluating wide receivers? (https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/3/27/5552738/nfl-draft-2014-wide-receivers-scouting-notes-traits-breakdown)

nice read. wont post it here because it has alot of .gifs and video. Has a nice section of Marquise Lee's hands.

Easy 6
03-27-2014, 04:45 PM
5'8'', 179lbs.
speed score. 102.79

say no to midgets

Unless the midget has blistering speed, hands, jumping ability etc... agreed 100%.

Its too easy to cover a midget who doesn't have those equalizing skills.

Saccopoo
03-28-2014, 08:33 PM
NFL Draft 2014: What do you watch when evaluating wide receivers? (https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/3/27/5552738/nfl-draft-2014-wide-receivers-scouting-notes-traits-breakdown)

nice read. wont post it here because it has alot of .gifs and video. Has a nice section of Marquise Lee's hands.

So, basically, what it says is that the Chiefs should draft Odell Beckham, Donte Moncrief or Mike Davis.

Gotcha.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/YCwKdJUVrno?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/0jZbGUMevcI?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/NjvwpWOoQO8?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/4_bJbq2QEms?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

planetdoc
04-08-2014, 01:25 PM
Age vs Production for WRs and Rbs (http://a.espncdn.com/photo/chartbuilder/Age-vs-Production-Running-Backs-Receivers1396880190285.png)

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/chartbuilder/Age-vs-Production-Running-Backs-Receivers1396880190285.png

OldSchool
04-09-2014, 04:18 PM
LSU WR Jarvis Landry ran a pair of 4.58 forties at the Tigers' Pro Day on Wednesday.
Landry also dropped "three to four passes" in what is being described as a "rough" day. This all comes on the heels of a disastrous Combine that saw Landry run a painfully-slow 4.77 forty before dropping out of the drill altogether with a calf problem. He was also significantly shorter than LSU listed him in college. Landry is staring at a slide possibly into the 4-7 round range.

Landry in the 4th?

planetdoc
04-09-2014, 04:27 PM
I dont want Landry. He is a posession receiver with limited upside.

Ragged Robin
04-11-2014, 10:15 PM
Landry in the 4th?

No thanks. He's about as fast as Alex Smith (actually Smith ran a faster 40 and also a faster cone drill by a significant margin). LMAO

There's plenty of 6'2+ receivers in this draft that can run a 4.4-4.5 which we can pick up in the later rounds if not with our first couple picks..

kccrow
04-12-2014, 11:05 AM
So, basically, what it says is that the Chiefs should draft Odell Beckham, Donte Moncrief or Mike Davis.

Gotcha.

<IFRAME height=315 src="//www.youtube.com/embed/YCwKdJUVrno?rel=0" frameBorder=0 width=560 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>

<IFRAME height=315 src="//www.youtube.com/embed/0jZbGUMevcI?rel=0" frameBorder=0 width=560 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>

<IFRAME height=315 src="//www.youtube.com/embed/NjvwpWOoQO8?rel=0" frameBorder=0 width=560 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>

<IFRAME height=315 src="//www.youtube.com/embed/4_bJbq2QEms?rel=0" frameBorder=0 width=560 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>

I think you need to add Jordan Matthews to that list. He could end up being the best WR to come from this draft when all is said and done.

Ragged Robin
04-12-2014, 11:33 AM
I think you need to add Jordan Matthews to that list. He could end up being the best WR to come from this draft when all is said and done.

This! Kid's a beast and has great body control to make difficult catches. I changed my mind about Coleman, give me Moncrief/Matthews plz. IMO draft a #1 receiver with either of the first picks and then pick up a midget like Jalen Saunders in the later rounds to handle PR/KR/occasional screen pass/slot duty.

RunKC
04-13-2014, 06:49 PM
Been watching a lot of Robert Herron lately. Really like his ability and think he's a guy would like.

He has VERY deceptive speed. His straight line speed is much faster on the field than in a 40. Dude just plays fast.
Hell he lit up Texas last year for 170 something yards and 2 TD's.

And watching him at the Senior Bowl was very impressive. He owned the 1v1's. Would love this kid on our team.

Chiefnj2
04-14-2014, 09:28 AM
Watkins, Evans and Lee are IMHO the clear top 3 WRs.

After that its a matter of system and fit. I think Cooks might be the best fit for KC because he is the best pure playmaker, but he can't block and has trouble with physical CBs.

The Pest
04-14-2014, 09:36 AM
Now Cooks can't block and has problems with physical CBs.....

saphojunkie
04-14-2014, 04:16 PM
NFL Draft 2014: What do you watch when evaluating wide receivers? (https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/3/27/5552738/nfl-draft-2014-wide-receivers-scouting-notes-traits-breakdown)

nice read. wont post it here because it has alot of .gifs and video. Has a nice section of Marquise Lee's hands.

That straight up made me not want to draft Marquise Lee anymore, and I've wanted us to get him for years.

Fascinating. I want to go back and watch all the combine WR drills again.

saphojunkie
04-14-2014, 04:21 PM
I think you need to add Jordan Matthews to that list. He could end up being the best WR to come from this draft when all is said and done.

I'm with you. The more I watch this guy, the more I think he is everything we need. Smart, focused, big, fast, strong, and catches the ball away from his body with great (HUGE) hands.

RunKC
04-15-2014, 01:53 PM
I'm just gonna say it: I want Robert Herron on this team

DTLB58
04-16-2014, 04:45 AM
Might be a repost, but I thought it was a good article.

@HerbieTeope: “It takes two years for a player to get used to this system,” former Eagles WR Todd Pinkston said on Andy Reid’s WCO: http://t.co/KcZe0LusQQ

I should say this came off of a question I asked last night:
@DTLB58: @Jacobs71 If the Chiefs pass on a WR in the 1st rd do you think there will be options in the 3rd that could contribute right away?

@Jacobs71: @DTLB58 @HerbieTeope wrote a great article on how long it takes a WR to learn Reid's system. It would be tough for a rookie.

@Jacobs71: @DTLB58 Most fans would have big expectations and would likely be disappointed. Rookies have to learn nuances of game on top of the system.

htismaqe
04-16-2014, 07:39 AM
So WR is out.

It's gonna be a lineman.

RunKC
04-16-2014, 08:01 AM
DeSean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin had very nice rookie years. I don't see why a rookie from this class can't do the same

htismaqe
04-16-2014, 08:18 AM
DeSean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin had very nice rookie years. I don't see why a rookie from this class can't do the same

I don't.

But it seems like every drip of information coming from the media is prepping us for something we don't want to happen...

Saccopoo
04-16-2014, 09:06 PM
I don't.

But it seems like every drip of information coming from the media is prepping us for something we don't want to happen...

Right now, what we want to happen is either a starting Pro-Bowl level guard (and if you take one in the first round, he better be), a #2/#3 WR from Day 1 who has a legit chance at being the #1 WR in 2/3 years or an impact guy on the defense, who will start right away (like Van Noy or Attaochu.)

Any of those guys are going to help immediately.

O.city
04-16-2014, 09:28 PM
I don't.

But it seems like every drip of information coming from the media is prepping us for something we don't want to happen...

Yeah, fans expectations of a 1st round wr would be too high, blah blah blah.


Jacobs is such a toolbag.

He will advocate they take an ol because the learning curve is less, yet the one they took last year sucked shit.

kccrow
04-16-2014, 10:03 PM
Yeah, fans expectations of a 1st round wr would be too high, blah blah blah.


Jacobs is such a toolbag.

He will advocate they take an ol because the learning curve is less, yet the one they took last year sucked shit.

He didn't suck shit. What he didn't do was meet lofty expectations that he would be a stud day 1, which were far from the norm for NFL lineman. He progressed almost weekly, which was a great sign. He also played injured a lot. I'm excited to see what the strength training in the offseason does for him.

People also compare his play to Stephenson's play, which is fucking stupid given that Stephenson had an extra offseason of strength training and development in the NFL. Stephenson should have looked better than a rookie. Stephenson was a highly touted pick himself, who probably would have went round 1 if he stayed for his senior year.

Adding into all of this is just how spoiled KC fans have been with the tackle position over the years. They've had some very good tackles, never many average guys. I think Fisher is going to be far better than average by year 3.

I think we should all be damn excited about the offensive tackle situation heading into the future because it looks very promising. If the guard situation can be remedied, the Chiefs should boast a stout offensive line.

Edit:

What I'm saying is he didn't look as bad as Black, McIntosh, Carlisle, and so forth. At least he was an actual rookie that showed development. Albert wasn't too stunning his first year either, but at least he didn't get moved clear to the other side of the line.

O.city
04-16-2014, 10:09 PM
He didn't suck shit. What he didn't do was meet lofty expectations that he would be a stud day 1, which were far from the norm for NFL lineman. He progressed almost weekly, which was a great sign. He also played injured a lot. I'm excited to see what the strength training in the offseason does for him.

People also compare his play to Stephenson's play, which is ****ing stupid given that Stephenson had an extra offseason of strength training and development in the NFL. Stephenson should have looked better than a rookie. Stephenson was a highly touted pick himself, who probably would have went round 1 if he stayed for his senior year.

Adding into all of this is just how spoiled KC fans have been with the tackle position over the years. They've had some very good tackles, never many average guys. I think Fisher is going to be far better than average by year 3.

I think we should all be damn excited about the offensive tackle situation heading into the future because it looks very promising. If the guard situation can be remedied, the Chiefs should boast a stout offensive line.


I didn't set those lofty expectations. The chiefs did wen they took him first overall.

Damn near every chiefs first round pick gets this "your expectations are too high, can't be a stud day 1" crap.

People are ao excited to see the first overall pick in his second year after a year in the weight room. The first fucking overall pick needed to hit the weight room.

Jesus

htismaqe
04-17-2014, 06:50 AM
Right now, what we want to happen is either a #2/#3 WR from Day 1 who has a legit chance at being the #1 WR in 2/3 years or an impact guy on the defense, who will start right away (like Van Noy or Attaochu.)

Any of those guys are going to help immediately.

FYP.

htismaqe
04-17-2014, 06:51 AM
which were far from the norm for NFL lineman.

The expectations of Fisher were right in line with tackles picked around where he was.

It isn't our fault they picked him 1st overall.

planetdoc
04-17-2014, 07:20 PM
Donte Moncrief: Metric AllStar (http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46395/349/out-of-the-box)

kccrow
04-17-2014, 07:22 PM
I disagree with you both on the expectations, and perhaps that's where we'll ultimately fall (on opposite sides of the fence) on this issue. It is extremely rare for a rookie offensive lineman to be any good, more or less dominant, his rookie year and especially at tackle.

The expectations with Fisher were set to high by fans right out of the gate. The entire process, everyone and their brother that knew anything about football was saying that Fisher had a rare physical skill set and was dominant in his league, but he'll need time to gain strength and adjust to the pro game. The entire thought was that Joeckel was more pro ready than Fisher, but Fisher had far superior tools to work with. I blame the fans, not the franchise.

Whether or not each individual here falls into that category of fan or not is a different story, but as a whole, the Chiefs fandom expected more than they should have. What made it worse was that the kid not only had to adjust to the NFL and get stronger, he had to learn how to play the opposite side of the line. If anyone thinks that is easy, well I can speak from experience that it isn't all that easy.

That's my take anyhow. Not bashing any of you for your opinions, but the expectations, to me were far off base of the normal.

Now, on making an immediate impact. I think that pass rushers and running backs make the biggest immediate splashes, but most often it just comes down to who has the core strength to compete right out of the gate. Most of the time, rookies don't have it.

RunKC
04-17-2014, 09:30 PM
People are ao excited to see the first overall pick in his second year after a year in the weight room. The first ****ing overall pick needed to hit the weight room.

Jesus

Everyone knew that was a weak draft and that Fisher was going to need time to adjust. JFC Joekel looked worse and Lane Johnson struggled as well.

Will you ****ing knee jerkers get a grip already? The guy was hurt and played a new position at a much harder talent pool than the ****ing MAC conference.
Let's see what he does this year after a REAL offseason of training and experience.

Hell why is nobody bringing Tavon Austin up? That guy was wanted by several people here yet he didn't do shit outside of 2 games.

This is about player development, which takes more than 1 year.

O.city
04-17-2014, 11:15 PM
Everyone knew that was a weak draft and that Fisher was going to need time to adjust. JFC Joekel looked worse and Lane Johnson struggled as well.

Will you ****ing knee jerkers get a grip already? The guy was hurt and played a new position at a much harder talent pool than the ****ing MAC conference.
Let's see what he does this year after a REAL offseason of training and experience.

Hell why is nobody bringing Tavon Austin up? That guy was wanted by several people here yet he didn't do shit outside of 2 games.

This is about player development, which takes more than 1 year.

Weak draft. Horseshit.

Hy is it knee jerk to say the guy sucked? He did. We all saw it. Is it knee jerk to say the chiefs took a player first overall that needed to hit the weight room?

I don't give a shit about Tavon Austin. Would you rather talk about the guy I wanted the chiefs to pick? The defensive rookie if the year who plays a position we are now "hoping" we can get by with?

I swear, it physically hurts some if you guys when people say bad things about the chiefs when they make bad moves.

O.city
04-17-2014, 11:17 PM
This same "can't be good in his first year" crap was/is said about dl the chiefs take all the time.

Yet dl around the league come in and play well (win rookie of te year).

RunKC
04-17-2014, 11:43 PM
Weak draft. Horseshit.

Hy is it knee jerk to say the guy sucked? He did. We all saw it. Is it knee jerk to say the chiefs took a player first overall that needed to hit the weight room?

I don't give a shit about Tavon Austin. Would you rather talk about the guy I wanted the chiefs to pick? The defensive rookie if the year who plays a position we are now "hoping" we can get by with?

I swear, it physically hurts some if you guys when people say bad things about the chiefs when they make bad moves.

And it's ****ing retarded to say that Fisher was in anywhere near as good of a position to succeed as Sheldon Richardson. That DL was already very good when he got there.
He didn't have to learn to play on the complete opposite side he has always played on. He didn't have to play next to a failed G who got benched. He didn't have to go through injuries.

From the moment Eric Fisher was drafted anyone who follows this team knew he was taken on his incredible ability. Nobody said he was going to be an insanely talented player year 1 like Matt Kalil. Hell none of the other 2 OT's drafted early did shit either. Should they be cut too?

For crying out loud man. You saying a rookie is a bad movie after 1 goddamn year in general is pure idiocy. It's even more retarded when you realize the guy is playing his natural position on the left side in year 2.

Give it at least this season to see how he's doing. Christ.

O.city
04-18-2014, 06:06 AM
And it's ****ing retarded to say that Fisher was in anywhere near as good of a position to succeed as Sheldon Richardson. That DL was already very good when he got there.
He didn't have to learn to play on the complete opposite side he has always played on. He didn't have to play next to a failed G who got benched. He didn't have to go through injuries.

From the moment Eric Fisher was drafted anyone who follows this team knew he was taken on his incredible ability. Nobody said he was going to be an insanely talented player year 1 like Matt Kalil. Hell none of the other 2 OT's drafted early did shit either. Should they be cut too?

For crying out loud man. You saying a rookie is a bad movie after 1 goddamn year in general is pure idiocy. It's even more retarded when you realize the guy is playing his natural position on the left side in year 2.

Give it at least this season to see how he's doing. Christ.

This rookie was taken first overall. Not in the third round, he was hailed by the chiefs as the best player in the draft.

You keep bringing up other players, they don't matter.

The guy failed at playing rt, but we are supposed to think hell magically improve at lt?

htismaqe
04-18-2014, 06:40 AM
The expectations with Fisher were set to high by fans right out of the gate.

No, no, no fucking no.

It is NOT unrealistic to expect the FIRST OVERALL pick to be better than Fisher was.

Forget dominant, he was flat out TERRIBLE at times. TERRIBLE.

RunKC
04-18-2014, 06:44 AM
This rookie was taken first overall. Not in the third round, he was hailed by the chiefs as the best player in the draft.

You keep bringing up other players, they don't matter.

The guy failed at playing rt, but we are supposed to think hell magically improve at lt?

He played LT in college. Switching to RT is like a left handed batter switching to the right side. It's not easy, especially for a rookie.

This year we'll find out what Fisher will do. But for now it's pretty fucking stupid to judge this kid solely on last years circumstance.

O.city
04-18-2014, 06:49 AM
He played LT in college. Switching to RT is like a left handed batter switching to the right side. It's not easy, especially for a rookie.

This year we'll find out what Fisher will do. But for now it's pretty ****ing stupid to judge this kid solely on last years circumstance.

If he were getting beat solely because I technique, you'd have a point.

But he was physically overmatched

O.city
04-18-2014, 06:50 AM
What else do we have to judge him on?

Up to this point, he hasn't even been a replacement level player. Not that that can't change, but in his first year, he was an injury prone mess.

Coogs
04-18-2014, 08:08 AM
If he were getting beat solely because I technique, you'd have a point.

But he was physically overmatched

He does have a full offseason to be in the Chiefs workouts in the weight program this year. I expect a big change in both technique and physicality this fall, regardless of which side he plays on.

RunKC
04-18-2014, 08:25 AM
What else do we have to judge him on?

Up to this point, he hasn't even been a replacement level player. Not that that can't change, but in his first year, he was an injury prone mess.

Our entire draft class was an injury prone mess, which sucks because only Knile Davis was injury prone in college.

O.city
04-18-2014, 08:44 AM
He does have a full offseason to be in the Chiefs workouts in the weight program this year. I expect a big change in both technique and physicality this fall, regardless of which side he plays on.

This is the biggest complaint though. We took a guy first overall who wasn't physically able to play at a high level. If it were just a technique thing, you could more easily move past it and look easier.

I think he's got high upside and I'm glad they took him over the others, but there are some pretty big question marks there.

Coogs
04-18-2014, 08:49 AM
This is the biggest complaint though. We took a guy first overall who wasn't physically able to play at a high level. If it were just a technique thing, you could more easily move past it and look easier.

I think he's got high upside and I'm glad they took him over the others, but there are some pretty big question marks there.

I could be wrong, but didn't Dorsey and Reid both say Joekel was more NFL ready but Fisher had the higher ceiling in the long run?

O.city
04-18-2014, 08:54 AM
I could be wrong, but didn't Dorsey and Reid both say Joekel was more NFL ready but Fisher had the higher ceiling in the long run?

Yeah.

But I'd imagine he was a little less physical than they thought.

Essentially, we drafted a guy first overall who we hope becomes a good player after spending a year in the weight room. That's not very impressive

Coogs
04-18-2014, 09:05 AM
Yeah.

But I'd imagine he was a little less physical than they thought.

Essentially, we drafted a guy first overall who we hope becomes a good player after spending a year in the weight room. That's not very impressive

:shrug:

He does need to shine this season though! If not, then I agree.

MatriculatingHank
04-21-2014, 12:30 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jets/usc-wide-receiver-marqise-lee-visiting-jets-sunday-monday-blog-entry-1.1762830

All the potential WRs that the Chiefs should look at are mentioned here:


USC wide receiver Marqise Lee visiting Jets Sunday and Monday


The Jets will begin a busy week of pre-draft visits by hosting a few of the top wide receivers that could be available when the Jets select at No. 18 next month.
The Daily News has learned that USC’s Marqise Lee will be visiting the Jets Sunday night and Monday.
The News reported last month that high-level Jets personnel held private meetings with Lee before and after his Pro Day in Los Angeles. Lee won the 2012 Biletnikoff Award with a breakout season (1,721 yards, 14 TDs) as a junior before nagging leg injuries led to 791 yards and 4 TDs last season. The 6-0, 195-pound Lee has the run-after-the catch skill set to help replace the void left by Santonio Holmes’ departure.
The News has learned that the Jets will also host other targets this week with the hope of landing a cornerstone player that can be a true No. 1 threat in the league. LSU’s Odell Beckham, Jr., will be visiting Monday night and Tuesday. Oregon State’s Brandin Cooks is also scheduled to come to Florham Park this week.
Texas A&M wideout Mike Evans, regarded as the second best player at his position in the draft, is also visiting Monday. The Jets, however, would have to trade up to have a realistic chance at drafting Evans, who is expected to be a Top 10 pick.
Beckham’s college teammate Jarvis Landry, who is on the Jets’ radar as a possible pick in a later round, is visiting on Monday. Texas Tech tight end Jace Amaro is also slated to come to town this week.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jets/usc-wide-receiver-marqise-lee-visiting-jets-sunday-monday-blog-entry-1.1762830#ixzz2zXy3JDe5

saphojunkie
04-21-2014, 01:19 PM
At this point, I really only have three names I want at WR in the first round...

Watkins, Evans, and Matthews. Maaaaaybe Beckham, but I'm starting to think size is more of an issue than I want it to be.

Saccopoo
04-21-2014, 09:57 PM
At this point, I really only have three names I want at WR in the first round...

Watkins, Evans, and Matthews. Maaaaaybe Beckham, but I'm starting to think size is more of an issue than I want it to be.

Beckham's size, or your perceived lack of size with him, isn't an issue. He's got crazy long arms, hands the size of dinner plates and he can jump tall buildings in a single bound.

He's 5'11", 198 lbs., and looks to have plenty of room on his frame.

And he's absolutely sick in terms of route running, high pointing the ball and having pogo sticks for legs to go along with breakaway speed.

That being said, he'll most likely be long gone by the time the Chiefs pick.

However, if you don't think he's the shit after checking out his instagram site, then there may be no hope for you...

http://instagram.com/iam_obj3

I want this dude on the Chiefs something fierce.

RunKC
04-22-2014, 06:55 PM
I really like Jared Abbrederis, but fuck idk if I would touch this kid until the 4th round.

3 or 4 concussions and a slender frame? That doesn't sound good for a slow white boy, along with only 4 reps on the bench.

kccrow
04-22-2014, 07:00 PM
I really like Jared Abbrederis, but fuck idk if I would touch this kid until the 4th round.

3 or 4 concussions and a slender frame? That doesn't sound good for a slow white boy, along with only 4 reps on the bench.

He's anything but slow with one of the fastest 3-cones in the draft, but the concussions are a concern. Giving what happened with Ryan Swope, a very similar player, I think it is tough to draft Abbrederis very early.

DTLB58
04-22-2014, 11:15 PM
@MoveTheSticks: This draft is ridiculously loaded at WR. I'm watching Coastal Carolina WR Matt Hazel... Size/speed/fluid route runner/strong hands.

Here's hoping we get two (2) WR's outta this draft. :D

planetdoc
04-23-2014, 03:02 PM
updated WR speed score with pro day numbers
Moncrief 117.93
Janis 114.75
Enunwa 114.76
Latimer 114.72
Shaq Evans 113.66
DJ Coles 111.71
Martavis Bryant 110.57
Deon Anthony 110.13
Mike Evans 109.71
Sammy Watkins 109.57
Brandin Cooks 107.53
Jordan Mathews 107.16
Brandon Coleman 104.08
Josh Huff 103.2
Odell beckham 102.82
Davante Adams 102.48

Ragged Robin
04-25-2014, 12:13 AM
At this point, I really only have three names I want at WR in the first round...

Watkins, Evans, and Matthews. Maaaaaybe Beckham, but I'm starting to think size is more of an issue than I want it to be.

This. I'm absolutely wary about drafting anyone under 6'1 or 6'2 with a draft this deep in receivers. The CURRENT roster already has a 5'11 receiver who runs a 4.27 and a 6'0 receiver who runs a 4.3... both are completely useless overall in the NFL. Spot "contributors" at best. They need to draft a day 1 starter..

RippedmyFlesh
04-25-2014, 10:28 AM
He didn't suck shit. What he didn't do was meet lofty expectations that he would be a stud day 1, which were far from the norm for NFL lineman. He progressed almost weekly, which was a great sign. He also played injured a lot. I'm excited to see what recovering from surgery in the off season does for him.



FYP

Saccopoo
04-25-2014, 10:47 AM
He's anything but slow with one of the fastest 3-cones in the draft, but the concussions are a concern. Giving what happened with Ryan Swope, a very similar player, I think it is tough to draft Abbrederis very early.

He's got a very low vertical as well.

Guys like Abbrederis and BYU's Cody Hoffman (ultra-productive college receivers who lack the explosiveness/burst to be successful as downfield threats at the next level) are going to be very system dependent at the next level.

By looking and bringing in guys like Avery, Jenkins and Sanders, it doesn't appear that a guy like Abbrederis is on the radar of the Chiefs. They look like they want a guy who has burst and is capable of separation. They've already got "horizontal" type receivers in Bowe and Hemingway, and the tight end position plays to this as well.

I would guess that guys like Beckham, Cooks, Ellington, Herron, Huff, and the like are what they may be looking for.

planetdoc
04-25-2014, 11:44 AM
They've already got "horizontal" type receivers in Bowe and Hemingway, and the tight end position plays to this as well.


Bowe creates vertical seperation, not horizontal. That is likely the case with Hemingway as well though he doesnt appear to create any type of seperation.

OldSchool
04-26-2014, 09:49 PM
If Latimer surprisingly goes in the 1st, who do you think will take him? My best guess is the 49ers at 30. They have tons of picks and they did take AJ Jenkins a few years ago, whom many considered a late 2nd to 3rd round pick the year that he came out.

OldSchool
04-27-2014, 12:33 PM
Here's the main reason why I would take Matthews, Allen Robinson, and a few other fringe 1st round WRs over Lee.

http://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/lee-poor-hands-1.gif

He showed the same problem at the combine. It's the real reason why he dropped 12% of his passes last year, not inconsistent QB play.

http://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/leecombinedrop.gif

kccrow
04-27-2014, 03:02 PM
If Latimer surprisingly goes in the 1st, who do you think will take him? My best guess is the 49ers at 30. They have tons of picks and they did take AJ Jenkins a few years ago, whom many considered a late 2nd to 3rd round pick the year that he came out.

I'm thinking Carolina, Denver, or San Francisco. I'd think it will be quite late in round 1 if it happens.

RunKC
04-27-2014, 04:56 PM
I'll tell you what guys. This Jarvis Landry kid looks like Dwayne Bowe with better hands. IMO he is this years Keenan Allen.

Slow 40 or not I'd still take him. He's got nice game speed. He may not be a burner, but damn is he a great possession guy. He does just about everything well.

Really overshadowed by Odell Beckham Jr.

OldSchool
04-27-2014, 05:09 PM
I'll tell you what guys. This Jarvis Landry kid looks like Dwayne Bowe with better hands. IMO he is this years Keenan Allen.

Slow 40 or not I'd still take him. He's got nice game speed. He may not be a burner, but damn is he a great possession guy. He does just about everything well.

Really overshadowed by Odell Beckham Jr.

I like Landry too. Just wish he would have tested better. Looks more like a 4.5 guy on tape. If he's there in the 3rd I would take him. He's the best bet to end up being the next Anquan Boldin.

Saccopoo
04-27-2014, 09:16 PM
I'll tell you what guys. This Jarvis Landry kid looks like Dwayne Bowe with better hands. IMO he is this years Keenan Allen.

Slow 40 or not I'd still take him. He's got nice game speed. He may not be a burner, but damn is he a great possession guy. He does just about everything well.

Really overshadowed by Odell Beckham Jr.

We have that guy on the roster.

His name is Junior Hemingway. Except Junior is bigger and faster.

milkman
04-27-2014, 09:28 PM
We have that guy on the roster.

His name is Junior Hemingway. Except Junior is bigger and faster.

I'm no fan of Landry, but, come on, get real.

Saccopoo
04-27-2014, 10:04 PM
I'm no fan of Landry, but, come on, get real.

I understand the "what have you done lately for me" concepts and the "newness" of Landry versus the Hemingway you've seen on the Chiefs roster the past couple of seasons (a guy who's a very good special teams player and produces when he's been inserted into the offense), but Hemingway was no slouch in college. I'd say he was every bit as good as Landry and had/has substantially more upside at the next level.

Hemingway Combine:
6'1", 225 lb.
32 1/2" arms
9 5/8" hands
40: 4.53
Vertical: 35.5"
Broad: 124"
Bench: 21 reps
3 Cone: 6.59 seconds
20 Shuttle: 3.98 seconds
60 Shuttle: 11.16 seconds

In his last three years Hemingway averaged 16.8, 18.5 and 20.6 yards per catch.

Strengths: Hemingway is a talented receiver who might have been hindered throughout his career by not playing with a natural quarterback in Denard Robinson. Playing with him, Hemingway has developed a good field awareness and will be as ready as any rookie to make plays that happen during broken-down opportunities when the quarterback is scrambling. He knows how to exploit defenses and find open holes in the zone, which he did a lot at Michigan. He is reliable to catch the ball in a crowd and is also a threat deep. A very good athlete when the ball is in the air.

Weaknesses: Hemingway is a slow mover off the line and can get jammed up at times. He is a decent route runner but hasn't run many pro-style routes while working in Michigan's offense. He is not a very quick-twitched player and lacks speed variance and explosion in his routes. - NFL.com


Landry Combine:
5'11", 205 lb.
31 3/4" arms
10 1/4" hands
40: 4.77
Vertical: 28.5"
Broad: 110"
Bench: 12 reps

In his three years of college, Landry averaged 10.8, 10.2 and 15.5 yards per catch.

Strengths: Good balance and body control. Savvy route runner -- uses stems and nods and works back to throws. Confident hands-catcher -- snatches throws off his frame. Extends and high points. Attacks throws and wins "50-50" balls. Makes some spectacular, acrobatic grabs. Good concentration and toughness over the middle. Does not go down without a fight after the catch. Willing blocker. Lined up outside and inside. Likes to compete and it shows. Has special-teams experience covering kicks. Team captain.

Weaknesses: Has a fairly lean frame -- could stand to bulk up and get stronger in order to combat the jam. Lacks elite explosiveness and top-end speed -- does not have an extra gear to take the top off. Average line release, acceleration and suddenness. Could struggle to separate vs. quick-twitch cornerbacks. Large percentage of catches are contested. Lacks ideal height and is not a great leaper. Started just 12 career games. - NFL.com

Personally, I think that Landry is being severely overrated in this draft, especially considering the talent, production and athletic level that's available at the wide receiver position.

And straight up, I'd take Hemingway over Landry regardless right here, right now.

Jakemall
04-28-2014, 01:33 AM
He had a big day. That'll push him up a couple rounds...


BTW, he played against Dennard and looked good...that's impressive.

More on Cody...

http://www.fieldgulls.com/nfl-draft/2014/4/18/5627128/nfl-draft-2014-cody-latimer-scouting-report-indiana

OldSchool
04-28-2014, 01:46 AM
Hmm . . . didn't know that he didn't start playing organized football until Junior Year in HS. Gosh damn I wish we had multiple picks in the top 2 rounds.

OldSchool
04-28-2014, 01:53 AM
http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2014/04/23/55ffd66a14ddf5742c966cb78643618d.gif?1398281749

Those are some great wheels.

Saccopoo
04-28-2014, 10:46 AM
http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2014/04/23/55ffd66a14ddf5742c966cb78643618d.gif?1398281749

Those are some great wheels.

I agree. Missouri FS Braylon Webb does an excellent job of catching Latimer from behind and making a touchdown saving tackle.

Personally, I don't think Latimer fits well with the Chiefs offensive system.

When watching him, the first word that came to my mind was "stiff." He's not very fluid on his breaks (and really doesn't make many breaks anyway as the Hoosier seemed to use him exclusively on deep and fade corner routes because of this). He doesn't create very good separation off the line and doesn't have very good open field agility.

Single speed receiver that doesn't seem to have a great feel for the game.

I think he's getting overvalued because of his strength/straight line speed combination. Teams are looking at his base parameters, his basketball first background and thinking that they can coach him up.

He doesn't have the explosiveness of guys like Watkins, Beckham, Moncrief or Cooks and he doesn't have the instincts/naturalness of a Matthews or Robinson.

I'd easily take Clemson's Martavis Bryant over him. (Yet another guy running a Combine official 4.42 with a 39" vertical at 6'4", 211 lbs. - Jesus this draft is fucking absolutely loaded with WR's.)

I think that Latimer going to be overdrafted by someone.

ForeverChiefs58
05-04-2014, 10:52 PM
Gil Brandt of NFL.com, reports Florida State WR Kelvin Benjamin recently blew off a private workout with an NFL coach who had made a special trip to work him out...Benjamins excuse was that he was too tired.

kccrow
05-04-2014, 11:12 PM
Gil Brandt of NFL.com, reports Florida State WR Kelvin Benjamin recently blew off a private workout with an NFL coach who had made a special trip to work him out...Benjamins excuse was that he was too tired.

I've felt he's been overrated by at least 3 rounds through the entire process. He's not very good. He's tall, big whoop. Lot's of tall guys have failed, ask Mr. Baldwin. I don't think Benjamin is as good as Baldwin was coming out, which makes it even more laughable that draft people consider him a 1st round talent.

OldSchool
05-04-2014, 11:57 PM
I've felt he's been overrated by at least 3 rounds through the entire process. He's not very good. He's tall, big whoop. Lot's of tall guys have failed, ask Mr. Baldwin. I don't think Benjamin is as good as Baldwin was coming out, which makes it even more laughable that draft people consider him a 1st round talent.

I think Coleman is every bit as good as Benjamin and he could probably be had in the 4th.

planetdoc
05-05-2014, 04:50 PM
Mort on ESPN's best show (NFL Insiders): Andy Reid likes Brandin Cooks; GM John Dorsey likes bigger WRs. No 2nd rd pick. Tough spot for KC
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2014/5/5/5684640/mort-on-chiefs-at-no-23

jd1020
05-05-2014, 05:50 PM
We got another GM that wont listen to his coach?

planetdoc
05-05-2014, 06:23 PM
We got another GM that wont listen to his coach?

I think Dorsey is correct on this. The majority of the top wr in the nfl are tall. They can vetically seperate and contest for balls.

I dont think its a simple as size, but likely has to do with explosive ability (the ability to move a lot of weight quickly).

jd1020
05-05-2014, 06:27 PM
I think Dorsey is correct on this. The majority of the top wr in the nfl are tall. They can vetically seperate and contest for balls.

I dont think its a simple as size, but likely has to do with explosive ability (the ability to move a lot of weight quickly).

I'm not sold on Cooks becoming the next Steve Smith, but fuck this noise about size. Plenty of smaller guys that make it work.

OldSchool
05-05-2014, 06:35 PM
I'm not sold on Cooks becoming the next Steve Smith, but **** this noise about size. Plenty of smaller guys that make it work.

Make it work, sure, if that's all you're looking for in a WR. If you want guys who just "make it work", take them in the 3rd or later rounds, not the 1st or second. That should be reserved for guys who can dominate at all areas of the field.

jd1020
05-05-2014, 06:40 PM
Make it work, sure, if that's all you're looking for in a WR. If you want guys who just "make it work", take them in the 3rd or later rounds, not the 1st or second. That should be reserved for guys who can dominate at all areas of the field.

There's like 4 guys in the entire league that dominate all areas on the field... shitty argument.

You go with your gut and pick the one you think is the best. If you've got a problem with a 5'9 WR making 100+ catches a year because you could have got a 6'4 guy that makes a living on a catch that didn't count then you've got ****ing issues.

planetdoc
05-05-2014, 07:30 PM
reposting since its relevant. (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10474766&postcount=127)

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article-2/One-on-One-with-Chiefs-GM-John-Dorsey/345aa419-b964-402c-913d-b286b23bbb55

Ferrin: What is your overall evaluation of the entire 2014 NFL Draft Class?

Dorsey: "It’s another sign of the times, larger receivers, who will display the unique ability to have size and speed to play this game. We’ve always believed that size matters and I think this class is no different from the classes of the last couple years."

Size & Speed
https://i.imgur.com/E7qWb3P.png

Here (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&season=2013&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1) is a list of the top 20 regular season WR of 2013 by receiving yrds:
http://i.imgur.com/UrLOY6S.png

only 4 are under 6' tall. I am sure Dorsey noticed that too.

OldSchool
05-05-2014, 07:32 PM
There's like 4 guys in the entire league that dominate all areas on the field... shitty argument.

You go with your gut and pick the one you think is the best. If you've got a problem with a 5'9 WR making 100+ catches a year because you could have got a 6'4 guy that makes a living on a catch that didn't count then you've got ****ing issues.

Calvin Johnson
Andre Johnson
AJ Green
Julio Jones
Brandon Marshall
Alshon Jeffrey
Josh Gordon
Larry Fitzgerald
Dez Bryant
Demaryius Thomas
Vincent Jackson

These guys all have the ability to dominate in the red zone, short, intermediate, or deep because of their size, strength, flexibility, focus, and great catch radius.

Small guys like Desean Jackson and Mike Wallace, who have all of the speed and quickness in the world, might as well not be on the field in the Red Zone. I'd rather have a slower Alshon Jeffrey/Brandon Marshall who can catch everything thrown their way over a tiny guy who would be virtually useless in the red zone and actually limits what you can do down there if they are on the field.

jd1020
05-05-2014, 07:49 PM
Calvin Johnson
Andre Johnson
AJ Green
Julio Jones
Brandon Marshall
Alshon Jeffrey
Josh Gordon
Larry Fitzgerald
Dez Bryant
Demaryius Thomas
Vincent Jackson

These guys all have the ability to dominate in the red zone, short, intermediate, or deep because of their size, strength, flexibility, focus, and great catch radius.

Small guys like Desean Jackson and Mike Wallace, who have all of the speed and quickness in the world, might as well not be on the field in the Red Zone. I'd rather have a slower Alshon Jeffrey/Brandon Marshall who can catch everything thrown their way over a tiny guy who would be virtually useless in the red zone and actually limits what you can do down there if they are on the field.

So you'd rather have another Bowe? Worked out well with Baldwin.

jd1020
05-05-2014, 07:54 PM
Size & Speed
https://i.imgur.com/E7qWb3P.png

Lets not waste any time ****ing around Dorsey. Lets grab Janis in the first round. He's big, fast and has the 2nd highest speed score! Guaranteed lock to dominate!

planetdoc
05-05-2014, 08:01 PM
Lets not waste any time ****ing around Dorsey. Lets grab Janis in the first round. He's big, fast and has the 2nd highest speed score! Guaranteed lock to dominate!

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/assets/FallaciesPosterHigherRes.jpg

OldSchool
05-05-2014, 08:17 PM
So you'd rather have another Bowe? Worked out well with Baldwin.

How many successful WRs out there that were true #1 targets and stood under 5'10", which Brandin Cooks does, in the recent history of the NFL (past 30 years)? Only one I can think of is Steve Smith.

Wes Welker has always had someone better playing around him (Moss, Gronk, Hernandez, D. Thomas, J. Thomas)

Maybe Desean Jackson? He's too inconsistent to be a true #1, IMO. He's either big splash or long stretches of nothing in games. More of a specialist like Mike Wallace.

Now, tell my how many great WRs in the recent history (past 30 years) of the NFL stood at or over 6'1" (my cut off for the #1 WR minimum height)?

Take a guess at which list is a hell of a lot longer.:hmmm:

jd1020
05-05-2014, 08:52 PM
How many successful WRs out there that were true #1 targets and stood under 5'10", which Brandin Cooks does, in the recent history of the NFL (past 30 years)? Only one I can think of is Steve Smith.

Wes Welker has always had someone better playing around him (Moss, Gronk, Hernandez, D. Thomas, J. Thomas)

Maybe Desean Jackson? He's too inconsistent to be a true #1, IMO. He's either big splash or long stretches of nothing in games. More of a specialist like Mike Wallace.

Now, tell my how many great WRs in the recent history (past 30 years) of the NFL stood at or over 6'1" (my cut off for the #1 WR minimum height)?

Take a guess at which list is a hell of a lot longer.:hmmm:

Who the **** said Cooks was going to be a #1 target? He's a ****ing slot receiver. The Chiefs still have this big guy, maybe you've heard of him, Dwayne Bowe.

I realize, however, that they are a bunch of imbeciles on this board that refuse to believe a guy that put up #1 numbers with absolute shit throwing him the ball is a #1 WR, but this team needs a compliment to Bowe, not another ****ing Bowe. Can you imagine how unbearable it would be if the Chiefs had selected the under 6'1 receiver named Torrey Smith instead of Jonathan Baldwin? OH THE FUCKING HORROR!!!!!!!

planetdoc
05-05-2014, 08:58 PM
Who the **** said Cooks was going to be a #1 target? He's a ****ing slot receiver. The Chiefs still have this big guy, maybe you've heard of him, Dwayne Bowe.

chiefs already have a bunch of guys that are best suited as slot receivers in AJ Jenkins, Avery, and the canadian dude.

Bowe will be 30 yrs old by the start of the season, and has a cap # of $12 million this yr, and $14 million in 2015. That is a lot for a guy with 673 regular season receiving yrds in 2013.

jd1020
05-05-2014, 08:59 PM
chiefs already have a bunch of guys that are best suited as slot receivers in AJ Jenkins, Avery, and the canadian dude.

You just named off a bunch of guys that are best suited on the bench.

And Bowe isn't going anywhere so you might as well get used to him being on the team.

planetdoc
05-05-2014, 09:09 PM
You just named off a bunch of guys that are best suited on the bench.

Avery and AJ Jenkins are not going anywhere for 2014 so you might as well get used to them. Its unlikely the chiefs will get better production at the wr position from a rookie in Reid's complicated offense.


And Bowe isn't going anywhere so you might as well get used to him being on the team.

Bowe wont go anywhere in 2014, but there is incentive (cap savings) to replace him in 2015 and beyond, if he continues to not live up to his contract.

Bowe will also be on the wrong side of 30, so the time is now to find and develop a #1 wr.

jd1020
05-05-2014, 09:10 PM
Avery and AJ Jenkins are not going anywhere for 2014 so you might as well get used to them. Its unlikely the chiefs will get better production at the wr position from a rookie in Reid's complicated offense.

You really think either will be lining up in the slot?

And ya, they are going to cut Bowe for that 3.5M savings... If I'm not mistaken Bowe is fully guaranteed for 2015.

planetdoc
05-05-2014, 09:30 PM
You really think either will be lining up in the slot?


I think Reid will put the best wr on the field and either of those guys could line up in the slot.


And ya, they are going to cut Bowe for that 3.5M savings...
chiefs not have much cap room in 2015 as well. That 3.5 million can go toward Houston, Berry, or Poe if Bowe is not living up to his contract.


If I'm not mistaken Bowe is fully guaranteed for 2015.

only 1.75 million of his 2015 pay is guaranteed (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4184/dwayne-bowe).

planetdoc
05-07-2014, 10:59 AM
The Big Promise of Brandin Cooks (http://grantland.com/features/brandin-cooks-nfl-draft-oregon-state-wide-receiver/)
(highlights of a puff piece)
The smallest man in this year’s NFL draft just might be the most talented

There are other guys you watch where there are segments of the field they just aren’t going to be able to live in,” says NFL Network draft analyst and former pro scout Daniel Jeremiah. “The entire field is open to this guy. Courage is not a problem.” Cooks says his ideal NFL comparison is Steve Smith, an outside-the-numbers jump-ball winner undeterred by stature. He relishes traffic. He also happens to be the fastest receiver in this draft. Kiper has called him an “oh-so-slightly more athletic version of Tavon Austin,” who went eighth overall a year ago.

Winning the 40 was the combine triumph everyone knows about, but Cooks piled up smaller victories throughout his time in Indianapolis. “I’ve talked to different teams that interviewed him, and they were just blown away by how football smart he was,” Jeremiah says. At Oregon State’s pro day, Brennan heard the same reviews. Five different teams said he was the best interview they’d had.

OldSchool
05-07-2014, 11:06 AM
The Big Promise of Brandin Cooks (http://grantland.com/features/brandin-cooks-nfl-draft-oregon-state-wide-receiver/)
(highlights of a puff piece)

So he's going to be gone before our pick? Eh.

Ragged Robin
05-07-2014, 06:54 PM
Still not sold on Cooks. He can be a weapon sure but not convinced as a true #1. Michael Irvin says you can cover the field ever which way but you can't cover a man vertically so.. be wary of little dude receivers. Last time I checked Avery still smokes him in the 40 and he's on the shorter side too at 5'11.

You really think either will be lining up in the slot

I think Reid will put the best wr on the field and either of those guys could line up in the slot.

Bowe was used extensively lining up or motioning into the slot for the last few games so they should be looking for a #1 who can play split end or flanker (preferably split end to replace Bowe in base personnel) in the draft, not another option in the slot.

jd1020
05-07-2014, 08:11 PM
Still not sold on Cooks. He can be a weapon sure but not convinced as a true #1. Michael Irvin says you can cover the field ever which way but you can't cover a man vertically so.. be wary of little dude receivers. Last time I checked Avery still smokes him in the 40 and he's on the shorter side too at 5'11.

Good thing for the league that you don't often have the need to cover Avery as he voluntarily does that for you.

planetdoc
05-07-2014, 08:44 PM
so they should be looking for a #1 who can play split end or flanker (preferably split end to replace Bowe in base personnel) in the draft, not another option in the slot.

agree.

Ragged Robin
05-10-2014, 02:56 PM
Well then.. that was disappointing :(

OldSchool
05-10-2014, 03:21 PM
The greatest and deepest WR draft class in the last 10 years and we don't take one. ROFL

farmerchief
05-10-2014, 04:48 PM
The greatest and deepest WR draft class in the last 10 years and we don't take one. ROFL
I'm sure they will have some undrafted WR's in camp, hopefully some diamonds in the rough emerge?:huh:

Saccopoo
05-10-2014, 06:49 PM
Brandon Coleman would be intriguing, but why the fuck do we need to sign a receiver? We've got Avery, Jenkins and McCluster II.

OldSchool
05-10-2014, 08:17 PM
Brandon Coleman would be intriguing, but why the **** do we need to sign a receiver? We've got Avery, Jenkins and McCluster II.

We signed Albert Wilson. He's on par with Ellington and Cooks in terms of pure explosive ability.

Jakemall
05-11-2014, 03:31 PM
We signed Albert Wilson. He's on par with Ellington and Cooks in terms of pure explosive ability.

Also Kelce is coming back. That could make a huge difference. If the Chiefs have basically replaced what they lost in McCluster, then I'd say they have a slight upgrade in the passing game.

Remember towards the end of the season, the passing game was looking pretty solid.

OldSchool
05-11-2014, 03:34 PM
Also Kelce is coming back. That could make a huge difference. If the Chiefs have basically replaced what they lost in McCluster, then I'd say they have a slight upgrade in the passing game.

Remember towards the end of the season, the passing game was looking pretty solid.

If our OL surprises me and is actually pretty solid, it will go a long way towards making our offense look good.

Saccopoo
05-11-2014, 04:06 PM
If our OL surprises me and is actually pretty solid, it will go a long way towards making our offense look good.

I think it's going to be okay.

Allen, Hudson, Fisher all have an entire year of starting now under their belt and Stephenson has numerous starts and looked good in them. The only question is RG and thankfully that's the easiest of the positions to fill. Roke Watkins and Rishaw Johnson both have a year in the system. They are collectively young, but I think they'll be okay.