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View Full Version : Spin-Off Thread - Why Isn't Berry Our Single-High Safety?


Dante84
02-27-2014, 07:18 PM
Okay, he's a beast in the box. Murders RB's. Rushes the QB like a motherfucker.

However.

We are talking about the NCAA record holder for most interception return yards of all time. He is STELLAR in coverage, everywhere, except sometimes when he is covering TE's..... because he's in the box. He also is a head hunter and would murder guys coming across the middle.

Why Not:
- Get a run-stuffing safety, who can cover the bigger, slower TE's well, and have Berry stay single high?
- And mix it up, so on situational plays where we want to use Berry's blitzing skills and have him rush, why not have a CB drop into the S position and have DJ slide over to cover the lesser-of-evil WR's that the CB abandoned?

Sorter
02-27-2014, 07:26 PM
Okay, he's a beast in the box. Murders RB's. Rushes the QB like a motherfucker.

However.

We are talking about the NCAA record holder for most interception return yards of all time. He is STELLAR in coverage, everywhere, except sometimes when he is covering TE's..... because he's in the box. He also is a head hunter and would murder guys coming across the middle.

Why Not:
- Get a run-stuffing safety, who can cover the bigger, slower TE's well, and have Berry stay single high?
- And mix it up, so on situational plays where we want to use Berry's blitzing skills and have him rush, why not have a CB drop into the S position and have DJ slide over to cover the lesser-of-evil WR's that the CB abandoned?

We did this in the playoffs with Abdullah. Would have been great if we had someone apart from Lewis.

Direckshun
02-27-2014, 07:30 PM
I'm not sure what the hang-up has been, here. Maybe Berry really does just project to strong safety.

milkman
02-27-2014, 07:37 PM
I think when Monte Kiffen took over the Volunteer defense and moved Berry to SS, Berry began to add upper body mass to his frame to get stronger and take the puonding.

He's stronger now, but not as quick as he was when he was leaner at the FS position.

He'd have to reverse the process at this point.

Dante84
02-27-2014, 07:39 PM
Forgive my ignorance, but please explain to me the difference between a SS and a FS as it relates to a single-high set up.

My understanding has always been that the SS is on the TE side of the ball, closer to the line of scrimmage, while the FS is deeper, and on the opposite side of the TE.

TambaBerry
02-27-2014, 07:49 PM
Berry is still plenty fast and agile. I don't understand the he added more weight so he can't play it.

RippedmyFlesh
02-27-2014, 07:50 PM
I think when Monte Kiffen took over the Volunteer defense and moved Berry to SS, Berry began to add upper body mass to his frame to get stronger and take the puonding.

He's stronger now, but not as quick as he was when he was leaner at the FS position.

He'd have to reverse the process at this point.

Guys can bulk up (Cap) but I think the opposite is tough. It is natural for guys to fill out a bit as the get to 21 22. You are right he added upper body mass I don't think just losing weight would do it.

The Pest
02-27-2014, 07:56 PM
It's not like it fucking slowed him down THAT much.

OldSchool
02-27-2014, 08:04 PM
When they did put Berry back there, he took angles that were way too safe and allowed the big play anyways.

I forgot what game it was but the most glaring one was on a ball down the sideline that hung in the air. Berry was the single high safety and ran over to stop the play, only problem was that he ended up a good 5 yards beyond the point of the catch and was only able to make the tackle instead of a play on the ball. I think he did that a few times and after that I never saw him at single high for us again.

Dante84
02-27-2014, 08:08 PM
When they did put Berry back there, he took angles that were way too safe and allowed the big play anyways.

I forgot what game it was but the most glaring one was on a ball down the sideline that hung in the air. Berry was the single high safety and ran over to stop the play, only problem was that he ended up a good 5 yards beyond the point of the catch and was only able to make the tackle instead of a play on the ball. I think he did that a few times and after that I never saw him at single high for us again.

hey, if you're gonna fuck up, you might as well fuck up by going deeper than the catch instead of short of it, or off to the side (hi, kendrick).

Detoxing
02-27-2014, 08:13 PM
When they did put Berry back there, he took angles that were way too safe and allowed the big play anyways.

I forgot what game it was but the most glaring one was on a ball down the sideline that hung in the air. Berry was the single high safety and ran over to stop the play, only problem was that he ended up a good 5 yards beyond the point of the catch and was only able to make the tackle instead of a play on the ball. I think he did that a few times and after that I never saw him at single high for us again.

Might've been the result of him not playing much Single high for most of his NFL career. Hard to say.

Personally, i think he's not being played at FS because he's so damn good around the LoS.

Ragged Robin
02-27-2014, 08:41 PM
Have you seen Kendrick Lewis tackle? At this point in his career, Berry is more of a box guy than a pure rangy/cover guy. We're still looking for that guy.

OldSchool
02-27-2014, 08:46 PM
Terrence Brooks please. 4.42 40 with great instincts in both the run and pass game and is a fearless hitter. Only downside is limited starting experience (only 2 years of significant college playing time at FS), average hands, and he's fairly new to the FS position (converted corner). He looks like a flying missile on film though.

Saccopoo
02-27-2014, 09:47 PM
From what I see, Berry fails to get himself between the receiver and the ball, seemingly thinking that he can rely on his athleticism to make the play from behind. However, while that worked in college, it doesn't at the NFL level as everyone is big, fast and good.

Basically, his fundamentals in the passing game are poor.

His so-called record for return yardage on interceptions is a result of his speed at the college level. And he's shown that when he does get interceptions at this level, but he's a liability in the passing game. However, he's one of the best front end safeties in the NFL.

Right now, I'd put him just behind Kam Chancellor as far as strong safeties go and on par or just a bit ahead of TJ Ward.

But he certainly isn't a complete safety like Eric Weddle, Troy Polamalu or Earl Thomas.

That's why the Chiefs need to get a guy to play that deep middle.

As of right now, I'd love to see Clinton-Dix with the Chiefs pick. He's excellent at just that - covering the deep part of the field.

Jakemall
02-27-2014, 10:11 PM
This is something that could be addressed in FA..there are a shit ton of safeties that are going to be available.

TambaBerry
02-27-2014, 10:18 PM
I wouldn't take any other player at berrys position the guy is an amazing player.

Jakemall
02-27-2014, 10:24 PM
I wouldn't take any other player at berrys position the guy is an amazing player.

He's a great player...the question is: Should he be moved back to FS and get a SS or leave him there and find a real FS.

I think with Berry it is kinda dealer's choice.

Dunerdr
02-28-2014, 07:32 AM
I think he was rusty at it against the colts but I wouldn't be opposed to more of it let him get some time in get a natural feel for it again. But then again if he can take a good tight end out what's that worth to you?

htismaqe
02-28-2014, 07:45 AM
I think he was rusty at it against the colts but I wouldn't be opposed to more of it let him get some time in get a natural feel for it again. But then again if he can take a good tight end out what's that worth to you?

He can't take a good TE out. The rules don't allow it. Good TEs can't be covered man-to-man. You've got to scheme them into committing penalties, ala Tony G.

Chiefs=Good
02-28-2014, 08:08 AM
Berry is far more valuable to this defense in the role he plays. He fills a variety of roles that would normally take several players to fill. Its great for a defense scheme wise, as it allows them to hide what they are doing a lot better. If we had another player who could do it, im sure he would switch up between deep safety and in the box more often, but we just dont have that player atm.

Right now who would fill his role if he was to move? Abdullah is a possibility, but we simply don't have the linebackers or any one else that could cover his various roles. I think they target a rangey FS before they target someone to fill Berry's role, he simply too good at it.

I know people love the flashy FS types like Earl Thomas, but Chancellor is just as valuable to that defense as Thomas. We have our Chancellor, now we just need to find a step up from Lewis, which would be a lower end starting caliber safety...

Dunerdr
02-28-2014, 09:15 AM
He can't take a good TE out. The rules don't allow it. Good TEs can't be covered man-to-man. You've got to scheme them into committing penalties, ala Tony G.

Yeah but he can still hit them in the knee with a bat right?

OldSchool
02-28-2014, 02:15 PM
If we drafted Telvin Smith, Berry could be moved back to FS.

KCrockaholic
03-02-2014, 05:55 PM
Haha, Eric Berry is not too slow to play FS. I think it's more to do with the fact that coaches see his physical style, and know he can play in the box, so they use him there. What, was Kendrick Lewis supposed to play in the box? Not a chance. Demps? No way. Abdullah? He's not that kind of guy, IMO. He's an off the ball safety. We just haven't had somebody who could truly play SS other than Berry.

xztop123
03-03-2014, 09:00 PM
Berry is far more valuable to this defense in the role he plays. He fills a variety of roles that would normally take several players to fill. Its great for a defense scheme wise, as it allows them to hide what they are doing a lot better. If we had another player who could do it, im sure he would switch up between deep safety and in the box more often, but we just dont have that player atm.

Right now who would fill his role if he was to move? Abdullah is a possibility, but we simply don't have the linebackers or any one else that could cover his various roles. I think they target a rangey FS before they target someone to fill Berry's role, he simply too good at it.

I know people love the flashy FS types like Earl Thomas, but Chancellor is just as valuable to that defense as Thomas. We have our Chancellor, now we just need to find a step up from Lewis, which would be a lower end starting caliber safety...

Thomas has a much harder job than Kam does. He is asked to cover an insane amount of ground on every play. The point that's being made here is that with the money and the high draft pick we spent on Berry, we should be getting our money's worth (at the absolute hardest position, as the Seahawks are doing with their high dollar player)

Kendrick Lewis is being asked to complete a harder task than Berry is. It doesn't make sense to ask a lesser player to do a harder task than a better player

Direckshun
03-04-2014, 09:17 AM
Isn't it possible we're overrating Thomas because he never has to provide support to the side of the field that Sherman's shutting down?

xztop123
03-04-2014, 12:39 PM
Isn't it possible we're overrating Thomas because he never has to provide support to the side of the field that Sherman's shutting down?

No, they are playing cover 3... there is def communication going on which helps but they are still funneling the play to Thomas (who has to cover the most amount of space on that entire D)

Mugsy
03-07-2014, 07:49 AM
I don't think they have any plans of moving Berry for a number of reasons. It's like Reid said recently (combine interview?), he was the consensus All Pro Strong Safety. Why would you move a consensus all pro? Also, he closes on the running back faster than any safety in the game. You can't find that kind of talent anywhere. It's his best attribute.