Giving Every Kid a Trophy

[Direckshun]

Figured this is the quintessential CP topic.

Participation trophies for children: agree or disagree?

http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/trophy-season/

Trophy Season
By MOLLY KNEFEL

Despite what you’ve heard, not every kid gets a trophy. But why not?

The end of the school year is awards season, when students of all ages are herded into auditoriums and cafeterias and cafetoriums to sit and listen to adults read off the accomplishments of a select few classmates. Sometimes the crowd is instructed to hold their applause until all the recipients have received their award, and if they forget, they are told, sternly, not to clap yet. By the end, every hand in the room hurts, and the kids who get their awards last get hardly any applause. The winners take beaming pictures with their certificates.

I recently attended one such elementary school award ceremony. The children, who are students of mine, cheered for each other. Everyone seemed to have a great time, and afterwards, kids were leaping out of their seats to give speeches to the crowd about the year’s end. Fifth graders expressed appreciation for their teachers; a first grader told a joke. A kindergartner (who had won several awards) took the microphone, turned to his classmates, and shyly announced: “If you didn’t get an award… don’t cry.”

I’m with him. I worry about the kids who don’t win. Because — and I can report this first-hand — not everyone gets a trophy. If there’s one thing that young people are told when there are trophies to be had, it’s that not everybody should get one. Millennials have been told it’s the thing that ruined our generation, and the ones after us, and the ones today. Adults have very strong feelings about kids’ feelings about trophies.

***

Before I spent any time with J, the only thing I knew about him was that he punched people with relative frequency. On his teacher’s very first day at the after-school program, J punched him. I’d see adults swoop towards him from across the cafeteria or the playground to separate him from whomever he had just punched. These incidents, along with J’s gravely serious, rarely smiling face, gave me the impression that J was bad.

So when J was on my class list for the improv comedy class that I taught on Fridays, I went in braced for a bad kid. We played a game called “Interesting Connection,” where I name two random objects and the kids have to make up a fictional narrative about how they’re connected. Usually it went something like: “What’s the interesting connection between cupcakes and pencils?” and the kids, third through fifth graders, would say something extremely silly, like “A man named Mr. Cupcake was friends with a man named Mr. Pencil and they both invented cupcakes and pencils and that’s the interesting connection.” And then I would tell them to try a little harder.

J was given the objects “Dinosaurs” and “jewelry.” He began, “There’s an interesting connection between dinosaurs and jewelry.” Dinosaurs are ancestrally related to birds, he reminded us. And so, like birds, they made nests. They would weave together twigs and rocks to make their nests, just like birds do. J was so focused it was as if he was at a spelling bee. Because dinosaurs had sharp claws, their feet would wear down the stones they used to make their nests until they were smooth and shiny. And the smooth, shiny stones would be all woven in between long threads of twigs. It was kind of like a necklace, J explained. And that’s how dinosaurs created jewelry.

So I thought that J was bad at not punching people, but it turned out he was quite good at making up an incredibly beautiful connection between dinosaurs and jewelry. And he was good at all the other acting and comedy games we played, too.

This was a wonderful thing for J to teach me, because it’s a perfectly natural thing to see a person who’s punching people and assume that person is kind of a jerk. As a teacher I know, pedagogically, of the extremely important difference between a child’s behavior and the child themselves. I know to never, ever say “You are bad” to a kid, but “Your behavior is currently [too punchy] [too disruptive] [too disrespectful].”

The idea of separating judgement of a person’s behavior from their essence as a person is probably something that should be applied to all ages, but is especially important for very young people. They are new enough to the world that whatever negative thing it is that they’re doing is also relatively new to them. A person who’s been alive for a decade, during which they’ve punched a few people, is significantly different than a person who’s been alive for two, three, or four decades and has spent them all punching people. This is one of the reasons why children shouldn’t be treated the way adults are in the criminal justice system. Of course adults shouldn’t be treated the way adults are in the criminal justice system either.

The worst thing is that, if the adults in a child like J’s life tell him: “You are a person who punches people,” he may very well keep punching people into his second decade, because that’s the thing he’s been recognized for. That’s why it’s important to instead say: “J, you are currently punching people, and you need to stop.” Or, even better, to say: “J, why are you punching people?”

J is much older now, and back then I didn’t know to ask him that question. But I know another boy who’s about his age now, M. He’s incredibly smart and well-behaved, but has always been mysteriously dissatisfied. He talks about hating school even as he enthusiastically participates– his behavior is at odds with itself. He recently told me a story about when he was suspended as a first grader. A bunch of boys were fighting, he says, and he was trying to help (some people may think a 10-year-old is an unreliable narrator when it comes to their own guilt, but I trust M). The adults thought he was part of the fight, and wouldn’t listen to his explanation of what happened, and all the kids involved were suspended. He had to miss class. He didn’t understand anything that was going on once he came back. I had asked M whether he thought suspensions were effective in terms of changing kids behavior. After telling me this story, he said that his answer was yes: “I was already a good kid,” he told me. “But when I came back, I wanted to be a bad kid.”

M has not quite succeeded, in my eyes, at being bad. But I understand why he tries. On the last day of school he said, with a big smile on his face, “I won’t miss this place!” We hugged before he left.

***

The year that J told me about how dinosaurs created jewelry, I got to nominate students for the awards ceremony. Since I teach theater, I was supposed to nominate kids who were especially good actors. The thing about recognizing kids that are really good at things is that the ones who stand out often stand out in many ways– Best Actor, Future Leader, Class Role Model, and so on. I was lucky though, because J was among the best comedic actors I taught, and was also a kid who was unlikely to win any awards for good behavior or leadership or stellar academics. So J got the award.

The word “disbelief” does not do justice to the look of surprise on J’s face when he heard his name announced at the awards ceremony. In comedy, J used his gravely serious face to his advantage– he became the master of deadpan, cracking up his classmates and teachers and never even letting a smile slip when people said how funny he was. After he was handed his award, J walked like a zombie back to his seat and stared at it. I wish I remember anything he said, but I only see his stunned face. When his mom came at the end of the day to pick him up, he showed it to her as she put his arm around him and they walked out of the building.

Not everyone gets a trophy. But it’s so cool to get a trophy. Why can’t everyone get one?

***

The disgust that so many adults feel at the idea of everyone getting a trophy has to do with creating incentives. If everyone gets a trophy then no one will try hard; if everyone gets basic food and housing to survive, then no one will work. Of course, this isn’t true. A soccer team full of 10-year-olds who all get participation trophies won’t all sit down and stop playing soccer– the kids who are good at scoring points will still want to do so. But the kid who never scored a point will, for a moment, be recognized: You played soccer too.

Instead, that kid is supposed to get the message: If you didn’t score a lot of points, no one gives a shit about you. And if that makes you sad, or if you feel that it’s not fair, get used to it. The world is a sad and unfair place. Score more goals next time. This message has always felt at odds, to me, with the equally ubiquitous platitude that children are the future. If children are the future, then why are we so gung ho about preparing them to be treated unfairly?

***

After the awards ceremony where the kindergartner gave his inspirational reassurance to the other kindergartners, I sat with two fourth graders as they waited for their parents to pick them up. One had won an award– “Most Improved,” and the other hadn’t won anything.

The boy who had won was very proud. He said that he really did feel that he had improved a lot over the course of the year. The other boy said that he wished he had won something.

“I would give you the award for most athletic,” I told him, which was true. Even if he can be a bit of a ball hog, he’s good at every sport I’ve seen him try. He grinned and flexed his muscles.

Most Improved’s dad came to pick him up. He showed off his certificate, and they walked out together.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Can I be your friend?

[Iowanian]

http://media.tumblr.com/bf4194db7980adb437dc6c262736ed40/tumblr_inline_mzx3wwwpj21ri33kd.gif

[gblowfish]

Major league baseball should do this for the Royals. Dayton Moore needs to be validated.

[RealSNR]

Your thread doesn't get a trophy, but it gets 3 Pooties

[LoneWolf]

Sure, lets give every kid a trophy. Lets not give grades in school so nobody feels bad that they got a D while others received As. Lets not celebrate excellence and the hard work it takes to achieve it. Lets do all of this and then when these kids get to the real world where people are judged by performance and actions, they won't be prepared to deal with that harsh reality. Someone needs to punch the moron who wrote this article right in his face.

[Iowanian]

The real world should give every grownup a trophy.


The inscription should be a quote from a song I enjoy by Sturgil Simpson. "Life ain't fair"

[MahiMike]

God gave some guys big dicks and killer smiles. Then there's the rest of us...

[LoneWolf]

God gave some guys big dicks and killer smiles. Then there's the rest of us...

Is the big dick and the killer smile supposed to be a package deal from God? If so, I'm going to file a complaint. (I wrote this post with a killer smile on my face)

[BlackHelicopters]

In

[Katipan]

You get a shirt for participating. You get an award for doing something better than everyone else.

My daughter has been on winning soccer teams and winning softball teams. But it was in a small community so they all got a pat on the back and their picture in the paper. My son was part of an experimental 2nd grade football team. Those little guys never won a game. But I'll be damned if they didn't line up against 4th and 5th graders and lay more than a few of them out.

They were so proud they partied over pizza and soft drinks like frat boys.

[Donger]

If we lived in a world where our kids won't have to compete, I'd have no issues with this. Since we do, I do.

[KCUnited]

In my day an ice cold Vess grape soda after a game was all the trophy a kid needed.

[hometeam]

Participation trophies are for pussies.

[lcarus]

It's stupid as hell, but let me tell ya. This "everyone is a winner" mentality is good for my business.

[AndChiefs]

Instead, that kid is supposed to get the message: If you didn’t score a lot of points, no one gives a shit about you. And if that makes you sad, or if you feel that it’s not fair, get used to it. The world is a sad and unfair place. Score more goals next time. This message has always felt at odds, to me, with the equally ubiquitous platitude that children are the future. If children are the future, then why are we so gung ho about preparing them to be treated unfairly?

How about being gung ho about motivating them to improve themselves for the future? "Hey, you didn't win this year. What about next year? What steps do we need to take to get you an award then?"

That sounds a whole lot better than the "Congratulations on showing up!" award.

[tooge]

with sports, there are different levels of competition for youth athletes. Rec sports should give every kid a "participation" medal or award for actually doing something other than sittin on their ass. Anything more competitive than that, no, trophies should be earned.

[AustinChief]

The author is a moron and her ex-student "J" is a sociopath in training. Nice job validating that Molly.

[eDave]

Giving Every Kid a Trophy

Fucking Liberals.

[Fairplay]

Chiefs can be in first place every year

[Rain Man]

It's stupid as hell, but let me tell ya. This "everyone is a winner" mentality is good for my business.

LMAO


Do you go to school board meetings and promote the philosophy? You should.

[Rain Man]

Is the big dick and the killer smile supposed to be a package deal from God? If so, I'm going to file a complaint. (I wrote this post with a killer smile on my face)

My theory would be that if you have the first, the second arrives naturally.

[Rain Man]

While I'm laughing along with everyone else, I have a dark secret in the back of my mind. When I run my half-marathons every month, I get a "finisher's medal". Yeah, everyone gets one, but I really like getting them and I hang them all up on my wall. Am I bad person for that?

[lcarus]

LMAO


Do you go to school board meetings and promote the philosophy? You should.

Haha, no. I don't really have to currently. That mindset is already running rampant throughout the school systems down here.

[tooge]

While I'm laughing along with everyone else, I have a dark secret in the back of my mind. When I run my half-marathons every month, I get a "finisher's medal". Yeah, everyone gets one, but I really like getting them and I hang them all up on my wall. Am I bad person for that?

The guy that wins thinks so

[Donger]

While I'm laughing along with everyone else, I have a dark secret in the back of my mind. When I run my half-marathons every month, I get a "finisher's medal". Yeah, everyone gets one, but I really like getting them and I hang them all up on my wall. Am I bad person for that?

Not at all. Finishing a half-marathon is an achievement. Just showing up isn't.

[Pablo]

Fucking Liberals.LIBBRULLZ

[Rain Man]

The guy that wins thinks so

I have no doubt about that. But they get an extra medal and trophy, so screw them.

Some strong runner wrote an article a while back (can't remember if it was a mainstream newspaper or a running mag), that basically blasted the slower runners. He said that it was shameful to have a time over 5 hours or so in a marathon and that you're not really "running a marathon" at that pace. He said that it cheapened the accomplishment and that he hated the fact that those slow people got t-shirts that they wore. He proposed that perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to run a marathon unless you were faster than some particular pace.

He generated a lot of letters to the editor.

The article in the OP does bring up a good point about what motivates people. Is it internal or external? Should you reward only the best to motivate others to try to beat them, or should you reward people doing the best that they can?

I know as a runner that I'm never going to be in the elite group. If there's a race of 300 people, I'm not going to finish in the top three. Never. I could take a year off work, hire a coach and dietician, and work my rear off, and I'll never finish in the top three. I don't have the natural talent to reach the top. So seeing those top people get medals doesn't motivate me at all. They're martians in my world. What motivates me is a) finishing, and b) doing better than I've done before.

So from that standpoint, I really shouldn't care about getting a "finisher's medal" and a t-shirt. They shouldn't motivate me. But for some reason they do motivate me. I like getting them and they make me kind of proud that I'm out there working to get better.

I think you want to give rewards and recognition to the winners, but I guess I'm not averse to giving something to others who may be working hard, but they don't have the raw talent that leverages working hard. They're two different types of achievement.

What I think would be cool at a race would be to give awards to people who set a new personal record in the race. The more I think about it, that would be an awesome marketing tool, and people would eat it up.

[Katipan]

That's why you get a shirt.

[AustinChief]

I think you want to give rewards and recognition to the winners, but I guess I'm not averse to giving something to others who may be working hard, but they don't have the raw talent that leverages working hard. They're two different types of achievement.


We've been doing this for years with letters for making the team and trophies for actually winning something. I doubt anyone has any problem with a two tier system like that.

[Demonpenz]

Once you beat a team so bad you can tell the other team's parents are going home and beating them and not letting them play xbox until they get their layups straighten out, you will never need a physical trophy again. The Screams and the same from the losing team couples by the glorious overeating to numb their feeling of failure is trophy enough.

[Rain Man]

We've been doing this for years with letters for making the team and trophies for actually winning something. I doubt anyone has any problem with a two tier system like that.

Excellent point.

[Rain Man]

That's why you get a shirt.

Another excellent point.

However, I've found that the medals really impress people who don't know that everyone gets medals. There are a lot of post-race lunch waitresses who think I'm elite, and that's not a bad thing.

[AndChiefs]

I think you want to give rewards and recognition to the winners, but I guess I'm not averse to giving something to others who may be working hard, but they don't have the raw talent that leverages working hard. They're two different types of achievement.

What I think would be cool at a race would be to give awards to people who set a new personal record in the race. The more I think about it, that would be an awesome marketing tool, and people would eat it up.

I have no problem with this. That's why they have "Most Improved" awards and the like. You achieved something. You didn't just show up to "play" baseball and stand in the outfield looking at butterflies.

[Iowanian]

Rainman cleaning up in the medal count like Pre-Steroid testing East German Female Olympians!

http://media.tumblr.com/1a0f066d4ec962724b988ea01d90ebe6/tumblr_inline_mzyly92iVH1ri33kd.gif

[AustinChief]

Excellent point.

Now that I think about it, we should have a ChiefsPlanet Varsity team and give out letters.

I officially designate you captain and place you in charge of the project!

(I think a nice stylized CP next to a user's name would work wonders for the self esteem!)

[Rain Man]

Rainman cleaning up in the medal count like Pre-Steroid testing East German Female Olympians!

http://media.tumblr.com/1a0f066d4ec962724b988ea01d90ebe6/tumblr_inline_mzyly92iVH1ri33kd.gif


Non-running chicks dig me. At some point I'm hoping to find an Olympic Bronze Medal at a pawn shop.

[Rain Man]

Now that I think about it, we should have a ChiefsPlanet Varsity team and give out letters.

I officially designate you captain and place you in charge of the project!

(I think a nice stylized CP next to a user's name would work wonders for the self esteem!)


Can I base the letter jacket design on the fisty mctatt tattoo?

[Iowanian]

I have a little pal who has been doing 4-6 events in Special Olympics for over a decade. He has a neck of chains that gives Mr T penis envy. I could probably hook you up.

[Katipan]

I'd rather have a CP shirt ;)

[Rain Man]

I have a little pal who has been doing 4-6 events in Special Olympics for over a decade. He has a neck of chains that gives Mr T penis envy. I could probably hook you up.

We can both put on all of our medals and then go to Chili's together.

[AustinChief]

Can I base the letter jacket design on the fisty mctatt tattoo?

You're in charge! Get an icon sized version and I'll put it next to your name so you can show the pleebs what they get if they make the team.

[Fire Me Boy!]

You're in charge! Get an icon sized version and I'll put it next to your name so you can show the pleebs what they get if they make the team.

I've always liked Rain Man. Excellent call, as always, AustinChief!

[Katipan]

... someone wants a letter.

[Rain Man]

People won't get a letter for just showing up. They'll have to actively participate in polls and tournaments, among other things.

[Fire Me Boy!]

... someone wants a letter.

I don't know what you're talking about. :harumph:

[alpha_omega]

Didn't read, but easy solution......

"Recreational" League
and
"Competitive" League

Problem solved....assuming we are talking about sports.

[TLO]

Who's dick do I have to suck to get a letter around here?

[AustinChief]

... someone wants a letter.

Hey settle down now, no need to give our eager boys any grief.
Cheerleader try outs will be held later tonight, keep your pants on!

[Fire Me Boy!]

People won't get a letter for just showing up. They'll have to actively participate in polls and tournaments, among other things.

I've got casino cash. :shrug:

[Katipan]

Cheerleader try outs will be held later tonight, keep your pants on!

You're so doing it wrong.

[Rain Man]

I've got casino cash. :shrug:

That'll work, too.

[TLO]

I've got casino cash. :shrug:

Pshhhhh.... my $20939574 casino cash laughs at your puny pile of casino cash.

[Rain Man]

Who's dick do I have to suck to get a letter around here?


Okay, I resign. I'm out.

[TLO]

$64937. What a n00b!!!!

[Rain Man]

Hey settle down now, no need to give our eager boys any grief.
Cheerleader try outs will be held later tonight, keep your pants on!

Don't tell her that!

You know, the last part. The other stuff is fine.

[TLO]

Okay, I resign. I'm out.

Let's not make any decisions we might regret later.

[Donger]

Who's dick do I have to suck to get a letter around here?

Katipan's.

[Iowanian]

Who's dick do I have to suck to get a letter around here?


jim jones is probably down and there are a couple of other fellows that would probably give you a tryout at least.

[TLO]

jim jones is probably down and there are a couple of other fellows that would probably give you a tryout at least.

Ehhh... :sulk:

..... no thanks.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Pshhhhh.... my $20939574 casino cash laughs at your puny pile of casino cash.

$64937. What a n00b!!!!

I donate mine to worthy causes. I'm a philanthropist.

[Rain Man]

I donate mine to worthy causes. I'm a philanthropist.

I give rep to two chicks at the same time, man.

[blaise]

Maybe I read it wrong but she kind of goes against the point she's trying to make, doesn't she? J was so proud of the trophy because it was unexpected and he placed quite a bit of value on it. If every kid got one then why would he think he'd achieved anything? Wouldn't he just think, "yeah they gave all the kids one. I'm not so special."


As far as sports participation trophies- I know my kids know exactly what they are. They don't consider it any kind of actual award. It's just a sort of certificate of completion.
But they know full well the games they won and the games they lost with or without the trophy. Even before they teams kept a formal score all the kids know the score.

[Donger]

I donate mine to worthy causes. I'm a philanthropist.

Me, too.

[Steron]

I live in a small town in southern Virginia. I head coach Dixie Youth baseball every year. I have 2 years in t-ball and one in machine pitch. So far.

I used to think, like many of you, that everyone getting a trophy was stupid. Prior to coaching, I used to think that if you didn't win, tough. I have softened my stance. We lost a lot of games this past season but my kids tried hard and played awesome. Two of them made all-stars, and another was nominated. To see the joy on a kid's face when he receives that participation trophy / medal makes it all worth while.

All the kids get to keep their uniform shirt and hat. We give out participation trophies / medals to everyone. Each team has a Sportsmanship Award and that kid gets another trophy. If you make all-stars you get another one. Winning a tournament nets you another.

I'm not saying you should get auto-awards when you start playing school ball but for Dixie Youth, I think it's appropriate.

[Rain Man]

...To see the joy on a kid's face when he receives that participation trophy / medal makes it all worth while...

I probably offer the same look after my races, even though it may not be as appealing since I'm a gnarled up old guy.

[Bearcat]

http://www.holehigh.com/cp.png

LMAO

[Just Passin' By]

I live in a small town in southern Virginia. I head coach Dixie Youth baseball every year. I have 2 years in t-ball and one in machine pitch. So far.

I used to think, like many of you, that everyone getting a trophy was stupid. Prior to coaching, I used to think that if you didn't win, tough. I have softened my stance. We lost a lot of games this past season but my kids tried hard and played awesome. Two of them made all-stars, and another was nominated. To see the joy on a kid's face when he receives that participation trophy / medal makes it all worth while.

All the kids get to keep their uniform shirt and hat. We give out participation trophies / medals to everyone. Each team has a Sportsmanship Award and that kid gets another trophy. If you make all-stars you get another one. Winning a tournament nets you another.

I'm not saying you should get auto-awards when you start playing school ball but for Dixie Youth, I think it's appropriate.

You used to be right. Now, you're wrong. You're going in the wrong direction. Cut that shit out.

[BigRedChief]

Where in the hell is my varsity letter?

[Ming the Merciless]

maybe when they're like 5 ...

I don't know....the experience of the event should be the reward when they get any older....basically as soon as they are old enough to understand , the participation trophy isn't really helpful and may actually be harmful IMO.

They should know that doing x, y or z sport is fun, and winning something is a nice bonus...but not an entitlement...theyre doing it for brotherhood, camaraderie, and general macho good times.

[Rain Man]

Where in the hell is my varsity letter?

Did you participate in the SceneItAll tournament? That's one of the criteria.

[BigRedChief]

We've been doing this for years with letters for making the team and trophies for actually winning something. I doubt anyone has any problem with a two tier system like that.I was coaching youth baseball when the everyone gets a metal/trophy era started. When the team was a recreational team, I didn't have a problem with it, it was dictated by the league.

When we went competitive, I stopped the everyone gets a trophy/medal crap. We would win tournaments and everyone on the team gets a trophy. You don't place in the tournament, you get no snacks, no trophy, no medal.

But, I did do something a little different from the recreational leagues to competitive. I made a "MVP" hat. It looked like our regular hats but had MVP embossed on the hat. The players got to vote after every game who was the MVP. Secret ballot. They get to wear the hat at practice and the next game. They would wear it around the neighborhood and to school. It was a very valued hat. Their peers awarded them the hat. At the end of the year, they vote and the MVP for the year keeps the hat.

I was worried that they would only vote for the best players. But they started supporting a player who had been in a slump and broke out with some hits or pitched a good game. Or made a smart baseball play. They came to these conclusions on their own.

One year they voted me the "MVP" for the year. That stupid hat is one of the most prized and valued possessions I own.

[BigRedChief]

Did you participate in the SceneItAll tournament? That's one of the criteria.Many times.:thumb:

[keg in kc]

The problem with everybody getting a trophy is that it takes competition out of the equation. Without competition, nobody loses, which means nobody learns how to overcome challenges, how to scratch and claw after suffering a disappointment in order to come back better than before.

[Rain Man]

Many times.:thumb:

Well, then you'll get a letter. To be honest, that's my only criterion.

I was coaching youth baseball when ...

I wonder if that would work inside my company.

[TLO]

I'm pretty jealous of that CP Rain Man.

[Rain Man]

I'm pretty jealous of that CP Rain Man.

Did you participate in the SceneItAll tournament? If so, you're eligible.

[TLO]

Did you participate in the SceneItAll tournament? If so, you're eligible.

You bet I did! I think I voted in every single heat.

[Rain Man]

You bet I did! I think I voted in every single heat.

Did you vote for the Ferris Bueller Seurat scene? Think carefully before you answer.

[WhiteWhale]

I dunno what value there is in something everyone gets.

Even as a kid, this confused me. I didn't generally understand the value of 'stuff' that I won. It's just stuff. I'd just stuff it in the closet or a drawer and forget about it.

[Steron]

You used to be right. Now, you're wrong. You're going in the wrong direction. Cut that shit out.

Bah! These kids are basically playing to see who makes all-stars. We keep score and record batting average and such but the league has no overall winning team. Let the kids have their participation medals and trophies. There's no harm in it. We're talking about kids ages 4-12. If nothing else it gives them something to look forward to at the end of the 16 games.

When it becomes competitive, such as school ball, then only the top team should win trophies or medals.

[lcarus]

When it becomes competitive, such as school ball, then only the top team should win trophies or medals.

The logical part of my brain agrees. The part that wants my business to succeed says give every kid/parent/coach on every team a trophy and a medal! :drool:

[Bowser]

Sure, lets give every kid a trophy. Lets not give grades in school so nobody feels bad that they got a D while others received As. Lets not celebrate excellence and the hard work it takes to achieve it. Lets do all of this and then when these kids get to the real world where people are judged by performance and actions, they won't be prepared to deal with that harsh reality. Someone needs to punch the moron who wrote this article right in his face.Just making sure this gets quoted.

I'd rather have a CP shirt ;)I do believe I've still got my "Dammit Carl :cuss: " T-Shirt floating around here somewhere. How much you willing to offer for it?

[Oregon chief]

I hate this every thing kids do is special crap. I found a really interesting article on how it all has backfired.

http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-generation-y-yuppies-are-unhappy.html

[CoMoChief]

Giving everyone a trophy is good up until about 7-8yrs old IMO.

At that point (in sports) it's important that the kids learn the meaning of competition and what winning means and the rewards that come with it. And on the flip side they need to know what losing feels like too.

[LoneWolf]

Funny story that is sort of related:

Last year was my nephew's first year of playing baseball. He was 6 years old and he called me to make sure I was going to be at his first game. My nephew is one of the better athletes in his class (meaning he can catch and throw and looks like he has an idea of what he is doing out there). I show up for the game and he comes over to let me know he is playing first base. I wish him luck and find a seat close to first base.

The game starts and his team is in the field first. Now this is not a great display of baseball. There are ground balls between fielders legs, overthrows and under throws, and just general chaos, but in the first 6 batters my nephew's team manages to record 2 outs. Seventh batter comes up, this is t-ball mind you, and he hits a slow grounder right at my nephew. He fields the grounder, steps on first, rolls the ball towards the pitcher's circle, and starts running to the dugout. When he reaches the dugout, his coach stops him and tells him that he needs to go back out to first base. My nephew tells him, "Coach that was three outs. It is our turn to bat now." To his surprise and mine, the coach tells him that the opposing team's turn to bat isn't over until every member of their team has had a chance to bat. My nephew looks at the coach dumbfounded and then he turns to look at me and his father in the stands. We both shrug our shoulders and tell him he should listen to the coach. To our surprise, he takes off his baseball cap, exits the dugout, and walks directly to the stands where his father and I are sitting. He looks at his Dad and says, "Dad, I'll come back and play when they start playing real baseball." His Dad is a little embarrassed, but he gets up, walks over to the dugout and tells the coach his son will not be playing anymore this season, and we leave.

I've never been prouder of one of my nieces or nephews.

[Just Passin' By]

Bah! These kids are basically playing to see who makes all-stars. We keep score and record batting average and such but the league has no overall winning team. Let the kids have their participation medals and trophies. There's no harm in it. We're talking about kids ages 4-12. If nothing else it gives them something to look forward to at the end of the 16 games.

When it becomes competitive, such as school ball, then only the top team should win trophies or medals.

There is harm in it. The kids learn the wrong lessons from things like this.

[Saccopoo]

You know what second place is?

First place loser.

[hometeam]

Can I base the letter jacket design on the fisty mctatt tattoo?

request denied

[Aries Walker]

Anyone who doesn't think they need to teach kids that grown-up life is a competition is living in a dream world. Running a business is a competition. Politics is a competition. Standing out in school and getting good grades are often competitions. Job interviews and promotions are big-time competitions. Getting a mortgage, making sales, putting your kids into a good school, and even dating are all competitions to a certain degree.

It's fashionable to decry organized sport's competitiveness, but it teaches things that a lot of kids need to know, like teamwork, dedication, toughness, and sacrifice. I saw it myself; my brother played football from Pee Wees through high school, and the things it taught him put him in the right frame of mind to work a ton and start his own company, which he still has. I was the academic one and, though I'm a lot book-smarter* than he is, it also took me a lot longer to develop the kind of work ethic that was driven into him by a series fat guys in windbreakers yelling at him every morning, while I slept in.

If you want to give every kid a trophy, find out what that kid is best at, instill in him or her the drive to kick ass in it, and give them a trophy once he succeeds.

*and, by the way, better looking.

[CoMoChief]

Funny story that is sort of related:

Last year was my nephew's first year of playing baseball. He was 6 years old and he called me to make sure I was going to be at his first game. My nephew is one of the better athletes in his class (meaning he can catch and throw and looks like he has an idea of what he is doing out there). I show up for the game and he comes over to let me know he is playing first base. I wish him luck and find a seat close to first base.

The game starts and his team is in the field first. Now this is not a great display of baseball. There are ground balls between fielders legs, overthrows and under throws, and just general chaos, but in the first 6 batters my nephew's team manages to record 2 outs. Seventh batter comes up, this is t-ball mind you, and he hits a slow grounder right at my nephew. He fields the grounder, steps on first, rolls the ball towards the pitcher's circle, and starts running to the dugout. When he reaches the dugout, his coach stops him and tells him that he needs to go back out to first base. My nephew tells him, "Coach that was three outs. It is our turn to bat now." To his surprise and mine, the coach tells him that the opposing team's turn to bat isn't over until every member of their team has had a chance to bat. My nephew looks at the coach dumbfounded and then he turns to look at me and his father in the stands. We both shrug our shoulders and tell him he should listen to the coach. To our surprise, he takes off his baseball cap, exits the dugout, and walks directly to the stands where his father and I are sitting. He looks at his Dad and says, "Dad, I'll come back and play when they start playing real baseball." His Dad is a little embarrassed, but he gets up, walks over to the dugout and tells the coach his son will not be playing anymore this season, and we leave.

I've never been prouder of one of my nieces or nephews.

Good for them!!! :thumb:

That "let everyone have a chance" crap is for little kid sports like soccer

[mikey23545]

Hell, this idea could be a great way for people to win a Nobel peace prize, or elective office or something...

[InChiefsHeaven]

Hell, this idea could be a great way for people to win a Nobel peace prize, or elective office or something...

:LOL:

[InChiefsHeaven]

I coached football for a few years. 8 to 12 year olds, depending on the season. Every year, we as coaches were expected to get friggin' trophies for all the kids. I have no problem with participation certificates, but I've always thought of trophies as something you really had to perform to get. I hated that we did that, but the parents kind of expected it.

Hell, my sister's kid was in Karate, and she had literally boxes full of trophies...and she didn't win that much lemme tell ya. It winds up being junk that you don't want to throw away, because it's supposed to mean something, but it really doesn't.

I still have my Championship trophy from 1977, my first year in t-ball. I remember it well, and I have it in my footlocker, but it actually means something to me. It was a great season and when we won the championship game (3 outs per team by the way, none of this "everyone gets to bat" BS) it was a big deal.

I guess things have just changed a lot in the last 30 years.

[stonedstooge]

107509

Still proudly displayed in my house

[Nzoner]

Funny story that is sort of related:

Last year was my nephew's first year of playing baseball. He was 6 years old and he called me to make sure I was going to be at his first game. My nephew is one of the better athletes in his class (meaning he can catch and throw and looks like he has an idea of what he is doing out there). I show up for the game and he comes over to let me know he is playing first base. I wish him luck and find a seat close to first base.

The game starts and his team is in the field first. Now this is not a great display of baseball. There are ground balls between fielders legs, overthrows and under throws, and just general chaos, but in the first 6 batters my nephew's team manages to record 2 outs. Seventh batter comes up, this is t-ball mind you, and he hits a slow grounder right at my nephew. He fields the grounder, steps on first, rolls the ball towards the pitcher's circle, and starts running to the dugout. When he reaches the dugout, his coach stops him and tells him that he needs to go back out to first base. My nephew tells him, "Coach that was three outs. It is our turn to bat now." To his surprise and mine, the coach tells him that the opposing team's turn to bat isn't over until every member of their team has had a chance to bat. My nephew looks at the coach dumbfounded and then he turns to look at me and his father in the stands. We both shrug our shoulders and tell him he should listen to the coach. To our surprise, he takes off his baseball cap, exits the dugout, and walks directly to the stands where his father and I are sitting. He looks at his Dad and says, "Dad, I'll come back and play when they start playing real baseball." His Dad is a little embarrassed, but he gets up, walks over to the dugout and tells the coach his son will not be playing anymore this season, and we leave.

I've never been prouder of one of my nieces or nephews.

Awesome story,hell I'm proud of the kid as well.

[Valiant]

I have no doubt about that. But they get an extra medal and trophy, so screw them.

Some strong runner wrote an article a while back (can't remember if it was a mainstream newspaper or a running mag), that basically blasted the slower runners. He said that it was shameful to have a time over 5 hours or so in a marathon and that you're not really "running a marathon" at that pace. He said that it cheapened the accomplishment and that he hated the fact that those slow people got t-shirts that they wore. He proposed that perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to run a marathon unless you were faster than some particular pace.

He generated a lot of letters to the editor.

The article in the OP does bring up a good point about what motivates people. Is it internal or external? Should you reward only the best to motivate others to try to beat them, or should you reward people doing the best that they can?

I know as a runner that I'm never going to be in the elite group. If there's a race of 300 people, I'm not going to finish in the top three. Never. I could take a year off work, hire a coach and dietician, and work my rear off, and I'll never finish in the top three. I don't have the natural talent to reach the top. So seeing those top people get medals doesn't motivate me at all. They're martians in my world. What motivates me is a) finishing, and b) doing better than I've done before.

So from that standpoint, I really shouldn't care about getting a "finisher's medal" and a t-shirt. They shouldn't motivate me. But for some reason they do motivate me. I like getting them and they make me kind of proud that I'm out there working to get better.

I think you want to give rewards and recognition to the winners, but I guess I'm not averse to giving something to others who may be working hard, but they don't have the raw talent that leverages working hard. They're two different types of achievement.

What I think would be cool at a race would be to give awards to people who set a new personal record in the race. The more I think about it, that would be an awesome marketing tool, and people would eat it up.


He has a point.. But then that is why they have divisions at the same race..

They have the lower divisions to generate money. He is right, some of these people that participate should not, but hey they are not going to turn down money.

People pay for their tshirt and small medal, part of the money. Actually doing good gets you a greater reward or medal if you will.

[Fairplay]

Giving everyone a trophy is good up until about 7-8yrs old IMO.

At that point (in sports) it's important that the kids learn the meaning of competition and what winning means and the rewards that come with it. And on the flip side they need to know what losing feels like too.



We don't want to offend the sensitive kids.

[Nzoner]

I think Molly never got a trophy growing up.

[BigCatDaddy]

I tell you what. All those trophies you won playing little league baseball are going to impress the hell out of a potential employer some day LMAO.

I get the point but I'm not sure in grand scheme of things it makes much difference either way.

[KCUnited]

My inlaws spent the weekend with us a couple weeks ago. We thought it was because we hadn't seen them in awhile, but apparently it was so they could drop off boxes of shit from my wife's childhood. One box was nothing but trophies and we were literally standing there going WTF are we going to do with all this shit. Fortunately, there seems to be a market for retro trophies on ebay.

People need to think down the road a bit before they start handing out a bunch of crap.

[Nzoner]

I tell you what. All those trophies you won playing little league baseball are going to impress the hell out of a potential employer some day LMAO.

I get the point but I'm not sure in grand scheme of things it makes much difference either way.

Personally I won a lot of little league trophies and what it taught me in the grand scheme was that not everyone in life wins,you work had to accomplish something and you get rewarded.

[Katipan]

I think it makes an extraordinary immediate impact. Quit giving kids stuff they don't deserve. They all have to attend birthday parties where one kid gets all the glory. They really can grasp the concept that they don't automatically get shit.

They can even be taught to find joy celebrating an individual team mate's uber success.

[BigCatDaddy]

Personally I won a lot of little league trophies and what it taught me in the grand scheme was that not everyone in life wins,you work had to accomplish something and you get rewarded.

I won a lot as well and it taught me that kids that mature quickly are better at things that kids that don't mature quite as quick. I've just seen a lot of kids/people that basically peaked in high school just because they had some natural athletic ability and never had to work hard. Now they work in a factory talking of their glory days and what might have been. Winning is cool but you have to be careful building a kids world and identity around that or they will be fucked once high school or college is over.

[Bearcat]

I get the point but I'm not sure in grand scheme of things it makes much difference either way.

Yeah, I'm sure there are special cases where it would make a difference to a kid who lacks any confidence or whatever, but for the most part, it doesn't seem like it would matter much at all, at least in sports.

I remember getting trophies in t-ball when I was about 5 or 6... couldn't tell you what they were for, but they were cool at the time. I remember getting trophies when I was ~8-10 and older, and by that time we knew what place we were in throughout the season, we knew which teams were good, etc. Trophies were only handed out to the 1st place team... we weren't scarred for life when we didn't get one and I doubt a participation trophy would have been much of a consolation prize. It's not like one moment at the end of the summer defines the summer... we knew we were good or that we sucked long before the end of the season.

[InChiefsHeaven]

I think it makes an extraordinary immediate impact. Quit giving kids stuff they don't deserve. They all have to attend birthday parties where one kid gets all the glory. They really can grasp the concept that they don't automatically get shit.

They can even be taught to find joy celebrating an individual team mate's uber success.

I knew a gal who would buy birthday presents for her birthday kid...and one present for her other kid...so they wouldn't feel left out.

holy shit...

[Eleazar]

If everyone gets a trophy, the trophies have no value.

[Iowanian]

I disagree a little bit.

I coach and have coached Tball and coach pitch level ball.

At this level it is about teaching fundamentals. I take a very positive approach, including letting kids on other teams know when they've done a good job or made good effort. Every kid getting a cut gives them 2-3 at bats each game, and each kid hitting puts 10 balls in play so that the other team gets more chances to learn what they're doing in the field. We see so much progress in ability from game 1-the last game that I see the value.

There is plenty of time for the competitive ball.

We start Tball with preschoolers, and there are no outs. The kindergarden level they do start counting outs so that the kids in the field get reward for good play and then they move up to coach pitch for 2 years where there are points and outs.

It's a process that is designed for the young kids to have fun, everyone plays and you're building skills with the ultimate goal to build competitive teams at the older school levels.


Funny story that is sort of related:

Last year was my nephew's first year of playing baseball. He was 6 years old and he called me to make sure I was going to be at his first game. My nephew is one of the better athletes in his class (meaning he can catch and throw and looks like he has an idea of what he is doing out there). I show up for the game and he comes over to let me know he is playing first base. I wish him luck and find a seat close to first base.

The game starts and his team is in the field first. Now this is not a great display of baseball. There are ground balls between fielders legs, overthrows and under throws, and just general chaos, but in the first 6 batters my nephew's team manages to record 2 outs. Seventh batter comes up, this is t-ball mind you, and he hits a slow grounder right at my nephew. He fields the grounder, steps on first, rolls the ball towards the pitcher's circle, and starts running to the dugout. When he reaches the dugout, his coach stops him and tells him that he needs to go back out to first base. My nephew tells him, "Coach that was three outs. It is our turn to bat now." To his surprise and mine, the coach tells him that the opposing team's turn to bat isn't over until every member of their team has had a chance to bat. My nephew looks at the coach dumbfounded and then he turns to look at me and his father in the stands. We both shrug our shoulders and tell him he should listen to the coach. To our surprise, he takes off his baseball cap, exits the dugout, and walks directly to the stands where his father and I are sitting. He looks at his Dad and says, "Dad, I'll come back and play when they start playing real baseball." His Dad is a little embarrassed, but he gets up, walks over to the dugout and tells the coach his son will not be playing anymore this season, and we leave.

I've never been prouder of one of my nieces or nephews.

[Nzoner]

I won a lot as well and it taught me that kids that mature quickly are better at things that kids that don't mature quite as quick. I've just seen a lot of kids/people that basically peaked in high school just because they had some natural athletic ability and never had to work hard. Now they work in a factory talking of their glory days and what might have been. Winning is cool but you have to be careful building a kids world and identity around that or they will be ****ed once high school or college is over.

I totally see your point on the athletic ability and agree.I also believe though that whether it's athletics,school grades,special projects/contests that their needs to be winners and losers because it teaches one that you are not entitled to shit unless you work for it.

[BigCatDaddy]

I totally see your point on the athletic ability and agree.I also believe though that whether it's athletics,school grades,special projects/contests that their needs to be winners and losers because it teaches one that you are not entitled to shit unless you work for it.

I get that as well. The older I get the more I understand nature wins out in the end and people are going to be who or what they are. You can sculpt a little bit but I think if someone is driven they are driven if they get a participation trophy or not.

[Fire Me Boy!]

I say winners get a trophy and a Totino's pizza of their choice. Losers just get the pizza.

[BigCatDaddy]

Funny story that is sort of related:

Last year was my nephew's first year of playing baseball. He was 6 years old and he called me to make sure I was going to be at his first game. My nephew is one of the better athletes in his class (meaning he can catch and throw and looks like he has an idea of what he is doing out there). I show up for the game and he comes over to let me know he is playing first base. I wish him luck and find a seat close to first base.

The game starts and his team is in the field first. Now this is not a great display of baseball. There are ground balls between fielders legs, overthrows and under throws, and just general chaos, but in the first 6 batters my nephew's team manages to record 2 outs. Seventh batter comes up, this is t-ball mind you, and he hits a slow grounder right at my nephew. He fields the grounder, steps on first, rolls the ball towards the pitcher's circle, and starts running to the dugout. When he reaches the dugout, his coach stops him and tells him that he needs to go back out to first base. My nephew tells him, "Coach that was three outs. It is our turn to bat now." To his surprise and mine, the coach tells him that the opposing team's turn to bat isn't over until every member of their team has had a chance to bat. My nephew looks at the coach dumbfounded and then he turns to look at me and his father in the stands. We both shrug our shoulders and tell him he should listen to the coach. To our surprise, he takes off his baseball cap, exits the dugout, and walks directly to the stands where his father and I are sitting. He looks at his Dad and says, "Dad, I'll come back and play when they start playing real baseball." His Dad is a little embarrassed, but he gets up, walks over to the dugout and tells the coach his son will not be playing anymore this season, and we leave.

I've never been prouder of one of my nieces or nephews.

LMAO

Getting a trophy teaches kids life lessons but CP is proud of a kid that quits on the team because he didn't like the rules of the league he signed up for. If you love the game you love to hit field and throw especially at 6 years old. Quitting because he didn't like the game wasn't played the way he wanted isn't good brother.

[Bearcat]

I totally see your point on the athletic ability and agree.I also believe though that whether it's athletics,school grades,special projects/contests that their needs to be winners and losers because it teaches one that you are not entitled to shit unless you work for it.

I don't think the argument is really about teaching kids they have to work for recognition, but about the kids who do try really hard and don't get recognized. If you suck at baseball, I think you know you suck at baseball, so a trophy isn't really going to matter much... find a different sport.

But, if you're 8 and you try really hard one year to get your grades up and the best you can do is low Bs and Cs, I'd think not being recognized could have a pretty negative impact, especially if you have siblings or friends who get recognized for their As (even if they don't have to really try at it). Ok, so you're not going to be a brain surgeon, but maybe some recognition for the effort helps the kid stay focused so he doesn't waste the next 10 years reaching for Ds.

[LoneWolf]

LMAO

Getting a trophy teaches kids life lessons but CP is proud of a kid that quits on the team because he didn't like the rules of the league he signed up for. If you love the game you love to hit field and throw especially at 6 years old. Quitting because he didn't like the game wasn't played the way he wanted isn't good brother.

It took a lot of courage for him to do what he did and he didn't do it in a throwing a tantrum way. He had a lot of friends on the team and to leave that based on what in his mind were his principles of how the game is meant to be played took a lot of guts. He was very calm through the entire ordeal and never argued with the coach after being told that the outs didn't count. Neither he or his parents were made aware of the particular rules of the league before this first game. If they had been, they probably wouldn't have signed up.

I would normally agree with you about quitting, but this wasn't the game he thought/wanted to sign up for. It would be like signing up to play football thinking you are going to be wearing a helmet and pads and getting to hit people, and then showing up to practice where they hand you a set of flags to wear.

This year his Dad found a competitive league in Wichita and his son played machine pitch ball where they actually kept score and declared a winner at the end of the game. He loved it.

[LoneWolf]

I don't think the argument is really about teaching kids they have to work for recognition, but about the kids who do try really hard and don't get recognized. If you suck at baseball, I think you know you suck at baseball, so a trophy isn't really going to matter much... find a different sport.

But, if you're 8 and you try really hard one year to get your grades up and the best you can do is low Bs and Cs, I'd think not being recognized could have a pretty negative impact, especially if you have siblings or friends who get recognized for their As (even if they don't have to really try at it). Ok, so you're not going to be a brain surgeon, but maybe some recognition for the effort helps the kid stay focused so he doesn't waste the next 10 years reaching for Ds.

If a kid works hard to improve their grades, that recognition should first and foremost come from the child's parents. Praise from your parents always means more than from somebody else.

[BigCatDaddy]

It took a lot of courage for him to do what he did and he didn't do it in a throwing a tantrum way. He had a lot of friends on the team and to leave that based on what in his mind were his principles of how the game is meant to be played took a lot of guts. He was very calm through the entire ordeal and never argued with the coach after being told that the outs didn't count. Neither he or his parents were made aware of the particular rules of the league before this first game. If they had been, they probably wouldn't have signed up.

I would normally agree with you about quitting, but this wasn't the game he thought/wanted to sign up for. It would be like signing up to play football thinking you are going to be wearing a helmet and pads and getting to hit people, and then showing up to practice where they hand you a set of flags to wear.

This year his Dad found a competitive league in Wichita and his son played machine pitch ball where they actually kept score and declared a winner at the end of the game. He loved it.

That's good. I've just seen those kids that quit because they don't play SS or bat cleanup or have to play TE instead of RB or don't get enough shots in basketball. If that's not going to be him someday that's cool but I wouldn't have let him quit or be proud of the fact that he did(especially if it was in the middle of a game) for that reason. Quitting is such a nasty habit... If you feel justified or not.

[LoneWolf]

I disagree a little bit.

I coach and have coached Tball and coach pitch level ball.

At this level it is about teaching fundamentals. I take a very positive approach, including letting kids on other teams know when they've done a good job or made good effort. Every kid getting a cut gives them 2-3 at bats each game, and each kid hitting puts 10 balls in play so that the other team gets more chances to learn what they're doing in the field. We see so much progress in ability from game 1-the last game that I see the value.

There is plenty of time for the competitive ball.

We start Tball with preschoolers, and there are no outs. The kindergarden level they do start counting outs so that the kids in the field get reward for good play and then they move up to coach pitch for 2 years where there are points and outs.

It's a process that is designed for the young kids to have fun, everyone plays and you're building skills with the ultimate goal to build competitive teams at the older school levels.

For me, practice is where you teach kids fundamentals and the games are where they should learn how to use those fundamentals in a competitive setting. I applaud anyone who can coach a team of preschoolers and kindergarten age children. That takes a level of patience I'm not sure I posses.

[blaise]

In youth sports there are kids on teams that lose almost every game that deserve recognition more than some kids on teams that win them all. Especially in soccer. I've seen teams that win all their games and it's basically a one or two man show. One kid will be light years ahead of everyone else on the field, he does all the scoring, and his teammates don't do anything, really. I've seen teams where the coach just yells at kids, "Pass to Johnny. Throw it to Johnny," as soon as they touch the ball. After he gets it they're just bystanders. You can see in their faces they stop caring after a while.

Then some teams the kids battle and fight but they're just not talented. SO they lose most games.
They don't compete for a trophy, they compete because they want to and they want to win. The trophy at the end of the year is more to say, "Thanks for busting your ass all year."

[Katipan]

What a pity that you have to thank them with gifts for doing the right thing.

[blaise]

What a pity that you have to thank them with gifts for doing the right thing.

You don't have to. Just like you don't have to send a thank you card to someone that gives you a gift.

[Katipan]

You don't have to. Just like you don't have to send a thank you card to someone that gives you a gift.

You understand the difference between a gift and signing up for soccer?

[blaise]

You understand the difference between a gift and signing up for soccer?

Yes I do. Change it to however you want. You don't have to say thank you to someone that helps you on a project at work, either. You just do it because you want to.

[Iowanian]

I buy popsicles for our teams after every game....if everyone pays attention and try to do what we ask.
Positive reinforcement for doing the right thing is a powerful tool with the younger ones.

No trophies.

[Katipan]

Yes I do. Change it to however you want. You don't have to say thank you to someone that helps you on a project at work, either. You just do it because you want to.

You don't give him employee of the month if there were better employees.
No one is saying you can't pat him on the butt and say good job.

[LoneWolf]

What a pity that you have to thank them with gifts for doing the right thing.

http://d2tq98mqfjyz2l.cloudfront.net/image_cache/1383034920531908.jpg

[Katipan]

I buy popsicles for our teams after every game....if everyone pays attention and try to do what we ask.
Positive reinforcement for doing the right thing is a powerful tool with the younger ones.

No trophies.

Awesome.

[Katipan]

http://d2tq98mqfjyz2l.cloudfront.net/image_cache/1383034920531908.jpg

Hahaha Jinx! You owe me a diet coke :)

[LoneWolf]

Hahaha Jinx! You owe me a diet coke :)

I will give you a diet coke after the game, but only if you pay attention and try to do what I ask. :evil:

[blaise]

You don't give him employee of the month if there were better employees.
No one is saying you can't pat him on the butt and say good job.

The trophies they get aren't championship trophies. They don't look at them that way. I don't think my kids ever look at the ones they get 10 minutes after they get them. It's just a symbolic thing you get. I could take it or leave it, and so could they. It's nothing really.
Many team have banquets after the season even if they're not good. I don't look at it that different.

I really don't see why people care that much about trophies one way or the other. The kids don't think they won anything by getting the trophy, so if that's what people are worried about they're wasting their time.

If people really want to complain about something complain about the fact that a lot of youth leagues don't register scores or standings. They don't officially say: You won after the game. The kids know, but it's sort of off the record. To me, that's the bigger BS. The trophy is just some corny little thing they get at the end of the year. It's not cofusing them about the value of competition and winning. If it is then the parent is the one to blame.

[Katipan]

Great. They are so grateful they care for 10 mins. Doesn't that alone prove the detriment?

[Fire Me Boy!]

You don't give him employee of the month if there were better employees.
No one is saying you can't pat him on the butt and say good job.

My HR departments says I can't do that.

[Katipan]

I will give you a diet coke after the game, but only if you pay attention and try to do what I ask. :evil:

Insert joke about a pat on the ass except it would be inappropriate as were both in committed relationships but it was a good joke and would so go here.

[LoneWolf]

My HR departments says I can't do that.

It's only sexual harassment if they don't like it.

[TEX]

My HR departments says I can't do that.

Yep. Probably he same HR department that thinks its good to give everyone a trophy...:hmmm:

[blaise]

Great. They are so grateful they care for 10 mins. Doesn't that alone prove the detriment?

No. I have a high enough opinion of my kids to know that some symbolic trophy isn't confusing them about the value of winning or what they did during the year.

If someone is worried that getting a fake trophy at the end of the year is going to confuse their kid about the value of winning and competition then they must have a low opinion of ther own child.

I don't care if they get it. I don't care if they don't. If the coach just told them thanks after the year that would be fine with me. But if I really thought the trophy was going to negatively impact how hard they played or competed, or made them think they shouldn't want to win then I might be concerned that my kid was just plain dumb.

[blaise]

And just to say it again - I think people worry too much about the participation trophy. The fact that a lot of youth leagues don't have playoffs or a championship game is way worse to me.

[Katipan]

No. I have a high enough opinion of my kids to know that some symbolic trophy isn't confusing them about the value of winning or what they did during the year.

If someone is worried that getting a fake trophy at the end of the year is going to confuse their kid about the value of winning and competition then they must have a low opinion of ther own child.

I don't care if they get it. I don't care if they don't. If the coach just told them thanks after the year that would be fine with me. But if I really thought the trophy was going to negatively impact how hard they played or competed, or made them think they shouldn't want to win then I might be concerned that my kid was just plain dumb.

It's not about being stupid. At least not for the kids. Maybe the adults.

It's about giving them a symbol they didn't earn. The one that will forever be associated with winning something later in life. And your smart kids don't even care about it.

I think id have other things to be concerned about

[Iowanian]

2nd place is the first loser.

If you're not first you're last.

[Nzoner]

I don't think the argument is really about teaching kids they have to work for recognition, but about the kids who do try really hard and don't get recognized. If you suck at baseball, I think you know you suck at baseball, so a trophy isn't really going to matter much... find a different sport.

But, if you're 8 and you try really hard one year to get your grades up and the best you can do is low Bs and Cs, I'd think not being recognized could have a pretty negative impact, especially if you have siblings or friends who get recognized for their As (even if they don't have to really try at it). Ok, so you're not going to be a brain surgeon, but maybe some recognition for the effort helps the kid stay focused so he doesn't waste the next 10 years reaching for Ds.

I have no problem recognizing achievements,I just don't think they should all be the same i.e. one team gets a trophy they were #1 team 2 maybe the coach takes everyone for pizza and gives the 'ol we gave it a heck of a try and let's get them next year.Still recognition for a job well done just not done as well as team #1

[Pennywise]

2nd place is the first loser.

If you're not first you're last.

But don't throw 2nd place away trying to win 1st.

[Iowanian]

I guess it depends how many spots they're paying.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Yep. Probably he same HR department that thinks its good to give everyone a trophy...:hmmm:


This is actually in my office.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/31/urehyga3.jpg

Funny thing about it is it followed a presentation on millennials and the "participation award" mentality. Pretty clearly, it was poking fun.

[blaise]

It's not about being stupid. At least not for the kids. Maybe the adults.

It's about giving them a symbol they didn't earn. The one that will forever be associated with winning something later in life. And your smart kids don't even care about it.

I think id have other things to be concerned about

Yeah, I'm not too worried that getting the participation trophy is going to cloud their judgement about trophies in the future. They're not dumb. They compete because they want to win and hate to lose. They practice hard and play hard. They're happy when they win and angry when they lose. That's all I need to see.

I don't care if the league wants to give them a trophy. Doesn't bother me.

[lcarus]

This is actually in my office.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/31/urehyga3.jpg

Funny thing about it is it followed a presentation on millennials and the "participation award" mentality. Pretty clearly, it was poking fun.

Damn they didn't even use a good font.

[Katipan]

Yeah, I'm not too worried that getting the participation trophy is going to cloud their judgement about trophies in the future. They're not dumb. They compete because they want to win and hate to lose. They practice hard and play hard. They're happy when they win and angry when they lose. That's all I need to see.

I don't care if the league wants to give them a trophy. Doesn't bother me.

Omg omg omg.

It is not about them being stupid. It is about them being entitled.

[Nzoner]

If people really want to complain about something complain about the fact that a lot of youth leagues don't register scores or standings. They don't officially say: You won after the game. The kids know, but it's sort of off the record. To me, that's the bigger BS. The trophy is just some corny little thing they get at the end of the year. It's not cofusing them about the value of competition and winning. If it is then the parent is the one to blame.

I'm with you there,my quick story when things were different is our team was in the 5th and deciding game of the All-Star Championships in Pony League,last inning,2 outs and a man on second and I hit a 2 run walk off home run to send our team to the next level out of town.

At the season end picnic trophies are awarded to the team and then coach calls my name to come to the front and I'm presented with a gold glove trophy holding my home run ball that the entire team and coaching staff had signed.I was blown away that someone had retrieved the ball and that I was presented with such an awesome reward for my accomplishment.

Point being it instilled in me that if I worked hard and succeeded that I would be recognized and personally I liked that feeling of being #1.I lost that trophy in a fire many years ago but I can tell you to this day it means everything to me and I would give anything to be able to hold it one more time.

[Pennywise]

I guess it depends how many spots they're paying.

;)

[blaise]

Omg omg omg.

It is not about them being stupid. It is about them being entitled.

Yeah, again. Not too concerned. I don't think it makes them feel entitled to anything.

[Bob Dole]

Sure, lets give every kid a trophy. Lets not give grades in school so nobody feels bad that they got a D while others received As. Lets not celebrate excellence and the hard work it takes to achieve it. Lets do all of this and then when these kids get to the real world where people are judged by performance and actions, they won't be prepared to deal with that harsh reality. Someone needs to punch the moron who wrote this article right in his face.

Funny how it escapes her the J actually EARNED the award.

[Bearcat]

Yeah, again. Not too concerned. I don't think it makes them feel entitled to anything.

Yeah, I'd think if anyone forms a sense of entitlement, it's the kid who scores all the goals and is far better than anyone else on the team, and has a coach yelling at the other plays to constantly feed him the ball, etc.

[BigCatDaddy]

Can we at least agree that if you are ejected from a youth sporting event you should have your picture in the paper under the title "First Class D-Bag" and be mandated to a year of counseling or is this something to be proud of also?

[Just Passin' By]

...If people really want to complain about something complain about the fact that a lot of youth leagues don't register scores or standings. They don't officially say: You won after the game. The kids know, but it's sort of off the record. To me, that's the bigger BS. The trophy is just some corny little thing they get at the end of the year. It's not cofusing them about the value of competition and winning. If it is then the parent is the one to blame.

It's the same fucking thing, dude. Participation trophies are the same thing as not keeping score, and it's done for the same reasons.

[BigCatDaddy]

You guys all understand this isn't something new right? They have been given since all of us were kids.... Except maybe Milkman.

[Katipan]

Can we at least agree that if you are ejected from a youth sporting event you should have your picture in the paper under the title "First Class D-Bag" and be mandated to a year of counseling or is this something to be proud of also?

https://fbcdn-photos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-0/1899977_712197735469296_1909447025_n.jpg?oh=2af5fe33a43848f16c011713b5f029eb&oe=5446EEAF&__gda__=1414508184_544da1cba28572e96adf35ec4a463bc3

[Just Passin' By]

You guys all understand this isn't something new right? They have been given since all of us were kids.... Except maybe Milkman.

I'm not sure how old you are, but that bullshit wasn't happening when I was a kid, and it wasn't happening when my younger brother was coming up behind me, either.

[LoneWolf]

You guys all understand this isn't something new right? They have been given since all of us were kids.... Except maybe Milkman.

Never happened when I was a kid.

[Nzoner]

I'm not sure how old you are, but that bullshit wasn't happening when I was a kid, and it wasn't happening when my younger brother was coming up behind me, either.

Yep,if you played here you played on a city team and represented your area of town,at the end of the regular season there was an all city tournament with trophies for 1st-3rd place all other teams were SOL and that included T-Ball thru Colt League.

[blaise]

Yeah, I'd think if anyone forms a sense of entitlement, it's the kid who scores all the goals and is far better than anyone else on the team, and has a coach yelling at the other plays to constantly feed him the ball, etc.

Those kids often do, and you can get them near tears if you play them hard and don't let them score.

[BigCatDaddy]

Never happened when I was a kid.

Hmm. I know they did it 30 years ago in St. Joe. Teams that won the city tournament at the end got a trophy, but every kid that played baseball in the city also got a trophy, just not as big and as nice. ****ed us all up the rest of our lives for getting those.

[lcarus]

Can we at least agree that if you are ejected from a youth sporting event you should have your picture in the paper under the title "First Class D-Bag" and be mandated to a year of counseling or is this something to be proud of also?

I would definitely agree

[Nzoner]

Hmm. I know they did it 30 years ago in St. Joe. Teams that won the city tournament at the end got a trophy, but every kid that played baseball in the city also got a trophy, just not as big and as nice. ****ed us all up the rest of our lives for getting those.

I was 21 in St Joe at that time so it's something that had to have started within those 5 years I didn't play.

[BigCatDaddy]

I was 21 in St Joe at that time so it's something that had to have started within those 5 years I didn't play.

Maybe. I just know I have a trunk full of those plastic pieces of shit :D

[Nzoner]

Maybe. I just know I have a trunk full of those plastic pieces of shit :D

Plastic? LMAO

[LoneWolf]

Hmm. I know they did it 30 years ago in St. Joe. Teams that won the city tournament at the end got a trophy, but every kid that played baseball in the city also got a trophy, just not as big and as nice. ****ed us all up the rest of our lives for getting those.

I agree with your last sentence. I've only been to St. Joe once, but that was enough.

[Nzoner]

I agree with your last sentence. I've only been to St. Joe once, but that was enough.

I think you'd enjoy a CP Bash though

[LoneWolf]

I think you'd enjoy a CP Bash though

I'm sure that I would and as soon as I finish my Phd I think I'm going to make it a point to attend one. Your 4th of July bash looked like a blast.

[BigCatDaddy]

Plastic? LMAO

Yep. Little plastic guys holding a bat with a solid bottom. You're going to make me go dig those damn things out now :facepalm:

[BigCatDaddy]

I agree with your last sentence. I've only been to St. Joe once, but that was enough.

Heh, you won't find many to disagree.

Acording to a new Harvard study Saint Joseph Missouri is the 2nd Most unhappy city in the US . Right behind New York.

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/capitolreport/2014/07/18/new-york-city-is-the-most-unhappy-city-in-america/

[Beef Supreme]

While I'm laughing along with everyone else, I have a dark secret in the back of my mind. When I run my half-marathons every month, I get a "finisher's medal". Yeah, everyone gets one, but I really like getting them and I hang them all up on my wall. Am I bad person for that?

The people who don't finish don't get one. Just finishing a marathon is a pretty big achievement.

[Nzoner]

Heh, you won't find many to disagree.

Acording to a new Harvard study Saint Joseph Missouri is the 2nd Most unhappy city in the US . Right behind New York.

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/capitolreport/2014/07/18/new-york-city-is-the-most-unhappy-city-in-america/

Wow LMAO

[Aries Walker]

I refuse to believe the validity of that study, based solely on the fact that they put Washington DC near the top, and almost all of Maryland in positive numbers.

[BigCatDaddy]

How will these receivers of participation medals ever learn to work to achieve things, to learn life has winners and losers? How will they ever learn to function at such a high level as us CPers? A future of living in their parents basements awaits.

http://www.olympicartifacts.com/participation-medals/

[displacedinMN]

How will these receivers of participation medals ever learn to work to achieve things, to learn life has winners and losers? How will they ever learn to function at such a high level as us CPers? A future of living in their parents basements awaits.

http://www.olympicartifacts.com/participation-medals/

http://cdn.skim.gs/image/upload/c_fill,dpr_1.0,w_940/v1471449000/13876670_1447577451924599_7648464026420087816_n_y2suco.jpg

[KCTitus]

You guys all understand this isn't something new right? They have been given since all of us were kids.... Except maybe Milkman.

Maybe Im as old as milkman, but never got a 'participation trophy'...I got 2 trophies as a kid playing baseball and soccer and they were earned by winning games.

My children have received participation trophies and have thrown them away. As they should...

[TimBone]

http://cdn.skim.gs/image/upload/c_fill,dpr_1.0,w_940/v1471449000/13876670_1447577451924599_7648464026420087816_n_y2suco.jpg
Why don't they want to teach the girls to problem solve?

[TimBone]

My children have received participation trophies and have thrown them away. As they should...

What an awful parent.



You should be teaching your children to recycle.

[Pablo]

My kid got a second place ribbon once. Stapled it to his forehead and paraded him around the neighborhood in a tutu.

Tough love works.

[displacedinMN]

Why don't they want to teach the girls to problem solve?

Private boys school. Insert joke here

[TimBone]

My kid got a second place ribbon once. Stapled it to his forehead and paraded him around the neighborhood in a tutu.

Tough love works.
What an awful parent.



You need a tiara with that tutu.

[Pablo]

What an awful parent.



You need a tiara with that tutu.
Tiaras are for pageant winners. Not for second place nobodies.

[KCTitus]

What an awful parent.



You should be teaching your children to recycle.

Heh...exactly...

[Rain Man]

The people who don't finish don't get one. Just finishing a marathon is a pretty big achievement.

Even if you're not fast, it's nice to finish. Plus, if you do a lot of races you can build up a good collection. Here's my Participation Wall.

[philfree]

There's nothing wrong with participation trophy's as long as the winners and runners up get the real hardware. Kids know the difference so it's not teaching them anything good or bad.

[BigCatDaddy]

There's nothing wrong with participation trophy's as long as the winners and runners up get the real hardware. Kids know the difference so it's not teaching them anything good or bad.

This is the correct answer

[Tombstone RJ]

1st, second, third, that's it. You don't get anything for participating. The point is to win. If you don't win then why do you get something? It's ok to pat the kid on the back, tell them they did good to finish and all that, it's good to be positive to encourage them to try harder. It's also a learning moment so that they can learn from their mistakes. But you don't hand them a trophy that essentially rewards them for participating.

[Dave Lane]

God gave some guys big dicks and killer smiles. Then there's the rest of us...

Thanks for acknowledging me. But it was genetics.

[BigCatDaddy]

Maybe Im as old as milkman, but never got a 'participation trophy'...I got 2 trophies as a kid playing baseball and soccer and they were earned by winning games.

My children have received participation trophies and have thrown them away. As they should...

In the long run I think it is pretty insignificant. My son likes to get trophies for participating but it never effects his work ethic or desire to win.

Me... I just won 2 medals for a 2nd and 4th at the MO State BBing Championships and they have been hanging on the door knob in my spare bedroom since I got them. I was going to give them away buy my wife wants to keep them. That shit is in the past. There are new challenges to conquer.

[LoneWolf]

Thanks for acknowledging me. But it was genetics.

Your parents have killer smiles?

[alanm]

Why don't they want to teach the girls to problem solve?Little girls are snowflakes. :D

[Dave Lane]

"School failed me, and I failed the school. It bores me. The teachers behaved like Feldwebel (sergeants). I wanted to learn what I wanted to know, but they wanted me to learn for the exam. What I hated most was the competitive system there, and especially sports. Because of this, I wasn't worth anything, and several times they suggested I leave.This was a Catholic School in Munich. I felt that my thirst for knowledge was being strangled by my teachers; grades were their only measurement. How can a teacher understand youth with such a system? From the age of twelve I began to suspect authority and distrust teachers."

-Albert Einstein

[vailpass]

"School failed me, and I failed the school. It bores me. The teachers behaved like Feldwebel (sergeants). I wanted to learn what I wanted to know, but they wanted me to learn for the exam. What I hated most was the competitive system there, and especially sports. Because of this, I wasn't worth anything, and several times they suggested I leave.This was a Catholic School in Munich. I felt that my thirst for knowledge was being strangled by my teachers; grades were their only measurement. How can a teacher understand youth with such a system? From the age of twelve I began to suspect authority and distrust teachers."

-Albert Einstein

A once in a generation genius mind felt held back by school meant for regular learners?
Weird.
Thanks for this completely applicable post Loon, it fits great here.

[Fairplay]

"School failed me, and I failed the school. It bores me. The teachers behaved like Feldwebel (sergeants). I wanted to learn what I wanted to know, but they wanted me to learn for the exam. What I hated most was the competitive system there, and especially sports. Because of this, I wasn't worth anything, and several times they suggested I leave.This was a Catholic School in Munich. I felt that my thirst for knowledge was being strangled by my teachers; grades were their only measurement. How can a teacher understand youth with such a system? From the age of twelve I began to suspect authority and distrust teachers."

-Albert Einstein


Poor Dave Loon

[Setsuna]

The point is participation trophies are trying to do the work for the parents who are supposed to teach their kids that winning isn't everything and that losing is a part of getting better and improving. Participation trophies are literally trying to be placeholders for years worth of teaching your child values that winning and losing instill.

[Iowanian]

I attended my first youth soccer game today. My sons team won 24-1.

I made him do 10 push-ups because they let the other team score.




Not really but I did offer the suggestion to the coach to keep the kids humble and working.

[BigCatDaddy]

I attended my first youth soccer game today. My sons team won 24-1.

I made him do 10 push-ups because they let the other team score.




Not really but I did offer the suggestion to the coach to keep the kids humble and working.

Sounds like your kids soccer coach is a dick.

[Setsuna]

I attended my first youth soccer game today. My sons team won 24-1.

I made him do 10 push-ups because they let the other team score.




Not really but I did offer the suggestion to the coach to keep the kids humble and working.

Do they play actual positions?

[Renegade]

Even if you're not fast, it's nice to finish. Plus, if you do a lot of races you can build up a good collection. Here's my Participation Wall.

You should call it your finishers wall. You only get the medal if you cross the line. T-shirts are for participating.

Nice Collection Rain Man.

[jjchieffan]

My daughter is in a private school that is a part of our church. They have an awards ceremony at the end of the year and the little kids always get a trophy for something, usually a character award. Last year she moved to the next age group and did nothing to earn a trophy, so she didn't get one. She was upset and thinking that she had done badly because she didn't get one. I explained to her that trophies are earned and that if she wants a trophy that she needs to work for it. She took it to heart. School started last week and she has been hitting her schoolwork hard. I have never seen her this determined. Why did that happen? Because nobody handed her a silly trophy that she didn't earn. This is what the ridiculous participation trophies take away. Did my daughter get her feelings hurt? Yes. And it was a character building moment. This is how we grow our children. Why can't people understand that?

[Rain Man]

There's nothing wrong with participation trophy's as long as the winners and runners up get the real hardware. Kids know the difference so it's not teaching them anything good or bad.

I think this is the way to go.

[Rain Man]

You should call it your finishers wall. You only get the medal if you cross the line. T-shirts are for participating.

Nice Collection Rain Man.

Good call. It is now officially my Finisher's Wall.

[Iowanian]

Sounds like your kids soccer coach is a dick.


Hey!!! My kids are winners! That's why we named them Walker and Texas Ranger. If we wanted a couple of sissies, we would have named them Dr Quinn and Medicine woman.

No, the opposite in fact and he told them at half time they couldn't kick a goal without passing twice. There were several reminders about sportsmanship.

I know nothing about soccer. Another of the kids had a game today and it was a little different. I know nothing about positions but it didn't suck to watch these kids play as bad as an feared it would. The 2nd had a goalie and another defender that stayed back in front of them.

Young kids, their first game ever, no goalie.

[Demonpenz]

Participation awards are good at showing how important it is to show up. Most of college was just showing up 15 minutes early and acting like you gave a fuck.