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Direckshun
09-24-2014, 02:22 AM
We've got perhaps the biggest, most consequential draft coming up for this franchise since 2008. The Chiefs have all seven of their picks, and will certainly be picking up an additional four in compensatory picks, one of which is assuredly a 3rd rounder.

As a result, it's important to familiarize ourselves with as much of this draft class as possible. I started a thread last offseason that discussed late rounders that was generally well liked and spurred tons of great conversation on all sorts of draft picks we normally wouldn't talk about, so I'm going to duplicate that idea this year, only discussing all talents, rather than just the mid- and lower-round ones.

The OP will be continually updated to show the talent I'm reviewing by position. Keep in mind as I list these players that I am generally listing their round projections, but it is not a strict big board, as I likely won't have a big board put together until May.

QB
Marcus Mariota, Oregon (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10943805&postcount=2)
Jameis Winston, Florida State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10949061&postcount=19)
Brett Hundley, UCLA (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10979524&postcount=82)
Connor Cook, Michigan State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11003398&postcount=93)


RB
Todd Gurley, Georgia (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10979438&postcount=81)
Melvin Gordon, Wisconsin (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10998776&postcount=90)
Ameer Abdullah, Nebraska (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11023214&postcount=144)
Mike Davis, South Carolina (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11023674&postcount=147)
T.J. Yeldon, Alabama (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11039613&postcount=176)
Tevin Coleman, Indiana (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11270034&postcount=443)
Duke Johnson, Miami (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11274163&postcount=451)
Jay Ajayi, Boise State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11279845&postcount=457)


FB



WR
Sammie Coates, Auburn (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10956964&postcount=22)
Amari Cooper, Alabama (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10970024&postcount=30)
Dorial Green-Beckham, Oklahoma (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11007428&postcount=105)
Ty Montgomery, Stanford (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11012520&postcount=117)
Kevin White, West Virginia (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11023256&postcount=146)
DeVante Parker, Louisville (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11146425&postcount=272)
Jaelen Strong, Arizona State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11233755&postcount=307)
Josh Harper, Fresno State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11268403&postcount=436)
Breshad Perriman, Central Florida (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11347030&postcount=467)
Devin Smith, Ohio State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11360641&postcount=471)
Rashad Greene, Florida State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11361266&postcount=482)


TE
Devin Funchess, Michigan (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11003418&postcount=94)
Maxx Williams, Minnesota (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11263158&postcount=415)


OT
Cedric Ogbuehi, Texas A&M (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10946197&postcount=12)
Brandon Schwerff, Iowa (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10948991&postcount=18)
Andrus Peat, Stanford (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10956931&postcount=21)
La'el Collins, LSU (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10970053&postcount=33)
Spencer Drango, Baylor (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11010286&postcount=110)
Ereck Flowers, Miami (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11036475&postcount=170)
Cameron Erving, Florida State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11045768&postcount=181)
T.J. Clemmings, Pittsburgh (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11149664&postcount=275)
Ronnie Stanley, Notre Dame (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11238905&postcount=319)
Ty Sambrailo, Colorado State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11254501&postcount=371)
Jake Fisher, Oregon (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11360548&postcount=470)


OG
La'el Collins, LSU (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10970053&postcount=33)
A.J. McCann, South Carolina (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11025079&postcount=160)
Cameron Erving, Florida State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11045768&postcount=181)
Ty Sambrailo, Colorado State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11254501&postcount=371)
Josue Matias, Florida State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11281603&postcount=459)
Laken Tomlinson, Duke (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11361201&postcount=477)


C
Cameron Erving, Florida State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11045768&postcount=181)
Reese Dismukes, Auburn (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11270041&postcount=445)


NT
Danny Shelton, Washington (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11007546&postcount=106)
Eddie Goldman, Florida State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11012527&postcount=118)
Malcom Brown, Texas (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11254500&postcount=370)
Jordan Phillips, Oklahoma (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11281582&postcount=458)


4-3 DT and/or 3-4 DE
Leonard Williams, USC (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10944170&postcount=5)
Michael Bennett, Ohio State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10967826&postcount=29)
Mario Edwards, Jr., Florida State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10970087&postcount=34)
Malcom Brown, Texas (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11254500&postcount=370)
Arik Armstead, Oregon (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11346948&postcount=466)
Carl Davis, Iowa (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11361140&postcount=475)


4-3 DE
Randy Gregory, Nebraska (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10948797&postcount=16)
Shilique Calhoun, Michigan State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10949089&postcount=20)
Dante Fowler, Jr., Florida (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10979564&postcount=83)
Shawn Oakman, Baylor (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10998824&postcount=92)
Bronson Kaufusi, BYU (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11042983&postcount=179)
Alvin Dupree, Kentucky (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11159928&postcount=280)
Nate Orchard, Utah (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11238973&postcount=320)
Owamagbe Odighizuwa, UCLA (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11268406&postcount=437)
Danielle Hunter, LSU (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11360504&postcount=469)


3-4 OLB
Randy Gregory, Nebraska (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10948797&postcount=16)
Vic Beasley, Clemson (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10957031&postcount=28)
Dante Fowler, Jr., Florida (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10979564&postcount=83)
Shayne Ray, Missouri (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11021698&postcount=138)
Bronson Kaufusi, BYU (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11042983&postcount=179)
Lorenzo Maudlin, Louisville (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11045766&postcount=180)
Alvin Dupree, Kentucky (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11159928&postcount=280)
Nate Orchard, Utah (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11238973&postcount=320)
Hau'oli Kikaha, Washington (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11263189&postcount=417)
Eli Harold, Virginia (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11266504&postcount=429)
Danielle Hunter, LSU (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11360504&postcount=469)


4-3 OLB/WILB
Vic Beasley, Clemson (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10957031&postcount=28)
Shaq Thompson, Washington (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11012547&postcount=119)
Paul Dawson, TCU (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11266493&postcount=428)


MLB/SILB
Bernardrick McKinney, Mississippi State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11016600&postcount=124)
Denzel Perryman, Miami (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11020613&postcount=133)
Eric Kendricks, UCLA (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11274232&postcount=452)


CB
Ifo Ekpre-Olomo, Oregon (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10956989&postcount=23)
P.J. Williams, Florida State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10970046&postcount=31)
Marcus Peters, Washington (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10998804&postcount=91)
Trae Waynes, Michigan State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11252868&postcount=349)
Jalen Collins, LSU (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/bb/showpost.php?p=11263166&postcount=416)
Alex Carter, Stanford (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11270059&postcount=448)
Quentin Rollins, Miami (OH) (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11346445&postcount=465)
Kevin Johnson, Wake Forest (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11360463&postcount=468)


SS
Landon Collins, Alabama (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10957026&postcount=27)
Anthony Harris, Virginia (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11282337&postcount=460)


FS
Gerod Holliman, Louisville (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11252867&postcount=348)


K



P

Direckshun
09-24-2014, 02:25 AM
Let's start out with the obvious one:

QB Marcus Mariota, Oregon -- Football Outsiders' own football Bible summarizes the chances of an early round QB panning out thusly: the more games they've started, and the higher their career completion percentage, the better chance they're going to work out. By this measure alone, Mariota's almost certainly the best prospect we've seen in this league since Andrew Luck, and he's probably on par with RG3 as the fourth-best QB prospect we've seen in the last ten years (behind, in order: Luck, Eli, and Stafford). But the tape is what really elevates Mariota: he is truly a QB of the league's future. As more and more teams ape Chip Kelly's hurry up offense, Mariota comes tailor-made for that system. His decision making is precise and quick, his release is fast. He's super athletic (I'm guessing a 40 in the low 4.5s), and he's built sturdy at 6'4", 218 lbs. His arm can make any throw, and is always accurate. The comparison you'll hear all draft season is Colin Kaepernick, but even that sells Mariota short, as Mariota's ability to read defenses gives him a higher ceiling. He will be the #1 overall selection.

bspence
09-24-2014, 02:57 AM
Love Mariota. Watching his film, he may not necessarily be forced to make NFL reads, he can definitely make the NFL throws. I'm not sure he has the ceiling Kaepernick does because he doesn't possess the same arm strength, I would say he's a safer bet to end up as an upper echelon QB year in and year out. I don't see him as being as frustratingly inconsistent as Kaep.

OldSchool
09-24-2014, 08:20 AM
Love Mariota. Watching his film, he may not necessarily be forced to make NFL reads, he can definitely make the NFL throws. I'm not sure he has the ceiling Kaepernick does because he doesn't possess the same arm strength, I would say he's a safer bet to end up as an upper echelon QB year in and year out. I don't see him as being as frustratingly inconsistent as Kaep.

His arm strength is more than adequate and he already has a superior feel in the passing game from the pocket that Kaepernick still lacks even though he's turning 27 this year. Mariota is a much better QB prospect than Kaepernick. Saying Kaepernick's ceiling is high because of his arm strength is like saying that Jamarcus Russell has a high ceiling.

All of the athleticism with a much better mind and feel for the position.

Direckshun
09-24-2014, 09:59 AM
DE/DT Leonard Williams, USC -- Williams is listed at 6'4", 300 lbs, but he sure looks like he's 280 lbs. He carries a lot of weight in his frame, and as far as I know may even have room for more muscle. As it is, Williams does one thing, and he does it brilliantly: he shoots gaps. If you run a 1-gap defense, he is going to explode in your scheme. The more gap-shooting you do, the better he'll be. He's got a series of passrush moves, he's extremely fast off the ball, and he gets into the backfield in a hurry. His athleticism pops off the screen for a 300 lber; he honestly looks like he runs a 4.7. And while it's not his forte, Williams already has the look of a guy who can two-gap well, also, but he'll need some work there. Even though he hits very, very hard, I fear he has some slight motor issues -- he has all the talent of a Gerald McCoy, but lacks the general non-stop nastiness. I think his best fit is as a 3-tech in a hyper-aggressive 4-3, and if it weren't for occasional motor issues, I'd have him as a top five player. As of now, I'll keep him in the Top 15.

mszymko
09-24-2014, 05:45 PM
Lot's of talk about cutting Hali for cap space next year, any chance we could trade him instead? Thinking Hali might be worth a second round pick? ...would be great to get an additional 2nd & 3rd rounder.

So far I'm for Amari Cooper in the first and as much OL & DB help we can get.

Direckshun
09-24-2014, 06:02 PM
Teams have historically had trouble trading players who are likely cap casualties.

It's entirely possible. I've repeatedly said the Falcons would give their left nut for him.

mszymko
09-24-2014, 06:11 PM
We could franchise him then trade him.

mszymko
09-24-2014, 06:12 PM
Either way we should have a lot of picks and flexibility next year. Would be great to bundle some of those picks to trade up and grab grab players in earlier rounds.

Direckshun
09-24-2014, 06:24 PM
We could franchise him then trade him.

That's not how franchising works. You franchise players who are impending free agents.

Hali is under contract.

OldSchool
09-24-2014, 10:51 PM
Either way we should have a lot of picks and flexibility next year. Would be great to bundle some of those picks to trade up and grab grab players in earlier rounds.

Why? If anything, Dorsey will benefit from having more ammunition to spend on his projects vs giving up multiple picks to trade up for a single boom or bust prospect.

Everyone knows that he's going to take the high ceiling measurables guy over the NFL ready kid. If he's going to focus on drafting those kinds of players, it's better to take a bunch of them vs just 1 or 2. It'll increase his odds of getting a quality starter in the draft.

Direckshun
09-25-2014, 04:54 AM
OT Cedric Ogbuehi, Texas A&M -- Of all the top-shelf tackles in this year's upcoming draft class, nobody has more to prove than Ogbuehi. He's had to wait for both Luke Joeckel and Jake Matthews to move on for his chance to play LT (he played RG and RT before). As of now, there's not enough tape on Ogbuehi at LT to be definitive, but what we do know: Ogbuehi is a b-e-a-utiful talent on the left edge, showing peerless lateral agility and is somehow even better when getting to the next level.He gets off the ball so damn quickly, he's virtually impossible to beat around the edge (his kickslide's a bit choppy -- hard to complain considering how fast he gets out there). The biggest complaint coming into this season was that he lacks a mean streak and more of a finesse tackle. I think that's fair, but it matters less and less in today's NFL that craves more athleticism at tackle. Ogbuehi looks as promising as it gets, offers positional flexibility, and will surely destroy at the Combine with his long arms and great speed. If John Dorsey was in the market for a LT, he'd be on the shortlist.

Edit (11/18): How much do you like your coaching staff? Because I've watched Ogbuehi all year and I see a guy who has every tool you need, but he's struggled massively with those tools. It'll be interesting how he times at the Combine, and I still believe he's in the 1st round conversation as some team like the Chiefs believes they can turn him into a quality tackle with LT upside. I still think he could be in the conversation for the Chiefs.

OldSchool
09-25-2014, 08:37 AM
So he's Eric Fisher of the SEC?

Sweet Daddy Hate
09-25-2014, 11:40 AM
Let's start out with the obvious one:

QB Marcus Mariota, Oregon -- Football Outsiders' own football Bible summarizes the chances of an early round QB panning out thusly: the more games they've started, and the higher their career completion percentage, the better chance they're going to work out. By this measure alone, Mariota's almost certainly the best prospect we've seen in this league since Andrew Luck, and he's probably on par with RG3 as the fourth-best QB prospect we've seen in the last ten years (behind, in order: Luck, Eli, and Stafford). But the tape is what really elevates Mariota: he is truly a QB of the league's future. As more and more teams ape Chip Kelly's hurry up offense, Mariota comes tailor-made for that system. His decision making is precise and quick, his release is fast. He's super athletic (I'm guessing a 40 in the low 4.5s), and he's built sturdy at 6'4", 218 lbs. His arm can make any throw, and is always accurate. The comparison you'll hear all draft season is Colin Kaepernick, but even that sells Mariota short, as Mariota's ability to read defenses gives him a higher ceiling. He will be the #1 overall selection.

Yes, please.

Direckshun
09-25-2014, 08:34 PM
So he's Eric Fisher of the SEC?

I thought exactly of the Eric Fisher from Central Michigan, watching him play. Almost exactly.

Direckshun
09-25-2014, 09:53 PM
OLB Randy Gregory, Nebraska -- Now that I just got done comparing Ogbuehi to Eric Fisher, now it's time for a Dee Ford clone. Randy Gregory has a little more height on him than Ford (6'6", 240 lbs to Ford's 6'3", 240), but possesses almost exactly the same kind of game. Gregory is a one-dimensional rushbacker (he stands at the LOS about 75% of the time), who transferred to Nebraska after destroying JuCo football. His explosiveness is excellent, and unlike Ford, he plays with a Hali-esque, nonstop motor. But other than speeding around the edge, Gregory does not have really any passrushing moves. He's also useless against the run, and doesn't look great in coverage (although I believe he possesses the athleticism to turn it around there). He's definitely a 3-4 OLB, and you have to argue he'll be a 1st round pick, since that's where Ford went. Gregory has a higher ceiling, so I think he goes somewhere in the teens.

Edit (11/18): No player this year has been a bigger force of nature than Randy Gregory. He has beautifully rounded out his game, and is a Top 5 player in the NFL Draft. He's like the leadership and power of Tamba Hali with the speed off the edge of Von Miller. He's fantastic.

bspence
09-25-2014, 10:02 PM
His arm strength is more than adequate and he already has a superior feel in the passing game from the pocket that Kaepernick still lacks even though he's turning 27 this year. Mariota is a much better QB prospect than Kaepernick. Saying Kaepernick's ceiling is high because of his arm strength is like saying that Jamarcus Russell has a high ceiling.

All of the athleticism with a much better mind and feel for the position.

I wasn't saying his ceiling was higher solely because of the arm strength. But Kaepernick has all the tools to be the best QB in the NFL. It'll likely never happen but he has the tools. And I am also not saying Mariota isn't a better prospect because he clearly is. He has the arm strength, I was simply saying I don't think he has the same ceiling as Kaep.

If I had to bet though, Mariota will be better than Kaepernick.

Direckshun
09-26-2014, 12:13 AM
OT Brandon Schwerff, Iowa -- Another year, another Iowa lineman. You already know all the dance steps here, don't you? A hardworking, smart, physically adequate-but-not-great, limited athleticism, near-perfect technician. Great base in his butt and legs, well coached, perfect kickslide. It's almost like we do this EVERY YEAR. Schwerff stands out, however, from Iowa lineman of years past in two ways. The first way is that Schwerff is capable of playing like a mean motherfucker. He is incredibly aggressive against the run, and is downright apocalyptic when he pulls to the 2nd level. And thank goodness for that, because his passblocking film is appropriately boring -- he is cool, efficient, difficult to beat around the edge with powerful arms that guide passrushers out of harm's way. The second way Schwerff is unique amongst Iowa lineman is that he's less of a known quantity -- his tape against everybody from OSU to MSU has generally been outstanding, with one gigantic exception: he absolutely got his shit pushed in against LSU last year. LSU tortured him, primarily with large, powerful passrushers who bullrushed right through him, but he got beat everywhere. I'd like to see him play a full year at his normal level without a single relapse to that horrendous performance before I consider him a Top Ten player -- but so long as he does, he will be.

Direckshun
09-26-2014, 02:54 AM
QB Jameis Winston, Florida State -- If you ran Cam Newton through the washing machine a few too many times, you'd get Jameis Winston. Winston has all of Cam Newton's attributes, with minor or major downgrades on each. Cam is a large, athletic QB built like a tank. Winston less so, but still stands at a great 6'4", 235 lbs. Cam's got a rocket launcher for an arm. Winston's is just as good, but loses accuracy on deep throws. Few QBs are more dangerous in the open field than both these guys, but Winston considerably less so. Cam came with numerous questions about his maturity. Multiply those by about 100, and you've got Winston. And Cam's technique, discipline, and attitude were frequently criticized as being less than ideal for a QB, yet he won a national championship immediately and won ROTY. Winston's story is the same: his technique throwing the ball is troublesome (super slow release) and he's spent zero time under center or making multiple reads, but he wills his team to victory. Unlike Newton, Winston's character flags will drop him in the 1st round. Like Newton, however, he'll be mostly fine once he gets on the field, as a middling QB who can seemingly never get over the hump once defenses figure him out. A team like the Raiders could gamble on him, but there's just no guarantee he won't make terrible mistakes off the field, and there's no guarantee that his shortcomings on the field will ever allow him to elevate above what Cam Newton's become. A Geno Smith-like slide is possible.

Direckshun
09-26-2014, 04:53 AM
DE Shilique Calhoun, Michigan State -- Here's what I love about Shilique Calhoun, that makes him so easy to root for: for a converted tight end, he's a contagiously enthusiastic player on the football field. He has that same enjoyable intensity to his play that you'd find in an Eric Berry or Tamba Hali. He's got the makings of a player your team rallies around, which is why he's a captain this year for the Spartans. Calhoun, however, has been dramatically overrated on the field. His first sin is that he's a tweener: his 6'4", 257 lbs frame's not big enough for a 4-3 DE, but he's not athletic enough to be a true 3-4 rushbacker. His second problem is the disappointing performances against the NFL-caliber talent he's played. He's been shut out now against the Ducks, the Hawkeyes, and Stanford. While he plays very hard and already has a couple good moves in his arsenal, he's just not strong enough to beat really good tackles if they get their hands on him, and almost all the tackles in the NFL are really good. Right now, he's getting mauled in the run game. The upside is that this is essentially his second full year at DE and he's got room in his frame to add weight and strength. Personally, I wouldn't touch him with a 1st round pick, and I think I'd wait until the third before pulling the trigger.

Direckshun
09-28-2014, 10:49 PM
OT Andrus Peat, Stanford -- Even if you didn't know who Andrus Peat is, he deserves all the benefit of the doubt that you can spare. First of all, he's started at left tackle for two years in arguably the country's most vaunted OL program. Secondly, he bumped David Yankey, arguably the best guard prospect from last year's draft, to guard so he could play LT. Thirdly, look at CBSSports.com's prospect rankings: right now, they have Leonard Williams and Shilique Calhoun listed as Top Ten prospects, and Peat has essentially blanked both of them this year. So on paper, Peat's already one of the best prospects in this year's draft. On tape, he still looks really good, and even has some room to grow. He's already a stout, maxed-out 6'7", 312 lbs, and if there was one word I could use to describe his playing style, it would be "power." He looks like a perfect LT for a power running system, but still looks pretty good at pulling to the second level, but his bread and butter is in handling DTs as well as DEs muscularly in the run game. He doesn't look like the fluid athlete Ogbuehi is, but he looks every bit as effective -- he'd be a fine LT in any system, but is absolutely prototypical for a power system.

Direckshun
09-28-2014, 11:49 PM
WR Sammie Coates, Auburn -- There's a whole lot to love about Sammie Coates, and a whole lot to be terrified of, as well. I'm not sure the NFL has ever seen a prospect like Sammie Coates -- Percy Harvin comes close. He possesses brilliant, 4.2 speed (and trust me, it explodes on tape), a packed 6'2", 201 lbs frame, a ridiculous 44" vertical and the ability to bench 400 lbs. I'm racking my brain, but I don't think we have ever, ever seen that. His go routes are epic, and he's a fantastic deep threat -- CBs must give him 10 yards cushion, or risk getting toasted. And with the ball in his hands, he's lethal if he has space. He's a willing if inconsistent blocker at the WR position, but with some refining he should be excellent. He can be difficult to bring down even if you get your hands on him. The bad, however, is that he's 100% boom/bust. He has never seriously run routes, as Auburn uses him exclusively in three ways: pure go routes, runblocking, and bubble screens/short throws. He only has 5 receptions so far this year (!!!), partially because teams put a deep safety over him, and he has no route-running ability to get open. But his QB play is also pretty iffy -- his QB completes far less than 60% of his passes, and only completed 150 passes last year, a third of which went to Coates. With competent QB play, and a couple seasons of learning the route tree, you could end up with a weapon the NFL's rarely ever seen. But it's just as likely you end up with a one-trick pony whose trick NFL teams will easily neutralize.

Post Combine (2/24): Coates "only" ran a 4.4, but he plays with downright elite speed on the field.

Direckshun
09-29-2014, 12:34 AM
CB Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, Oregon -- The question becomes, knowing what you know now, where would you have drafted Brandon Flowers in 2008? Ekpre-Olomu projects to essentially play as his twin in the NFL, except that he's exceptionally more battle-tested. Ekpre-Olomu is the same diminutive size (5'9, 190 lbs), has the same speed (looks 4.3 in short spaces, but 4.5 otherwise), plays with the same intensity and features the same enthusiasm against the run. Ekpre-Olomu spends a lot of time in the slot, but has the ability to play outside, although he is not ideal in press man. Flowers' game is more physical, but Ekpre-Olomu is in no way a soft, finesse corner. His talents clearly suit him more as an aggressive corner in a zone scheme. He may have the best ballskills in the upcoming draft class, as his ability to turn his head, block out a receiver and field the ball has notched him a handful of interceptions every year he's started, with another one already this year. The Ducks almost never send him into the backfield, so he will need developmental time as a blitzer. But this is a defensive captain in the making, so the question for NFL teams will be: will you use your prejudice against short CBs to pass on Pro Bowl talent in the 1st round, just like you did in 2008 with Flowers? I hope the Chargers' success with Flowers and Jason Verrett change that, but the way size at CB is being fetishized right now, who knows.

OldSchool
09-29-2014, 01:37 AM
On Coates, I think I would take his teammate "Duke" Williams in the 2nd-3rd over him in the 1st. Williams has dominated at every level he's played at and can work the slot or outside. He also has good size, speed, and explosion and has been way more productive despite, as you pointed out, mediocre Qb play.

Direckshun
09-29-2014, 01:43 AM
On Coates, I think I would take his teammate "Duke" Williams in the 2nd-3rd over him in the 1st. Williams has dominated at every level he's played at and can work the slot or outside. He also has good size, speed, and explosion and has been way more productive despite, as you pointed out, mediocre Qb play.

Productivity isn't that big of an issue to me with this terrible of a QB, unless the numbers are extreme.

Unfortunately, Coates' numbers are extreme right now, in a bad way.

OldSchool
09-29-2014, 01:51 AM
Productivity isn't that big of an issue to me with this terrible of a QB, unless the numbers are extreme.

Unfortunately, Coates' numbers are extreme right now, in a bad way.

You can give him a bit of a pass on that due to the injury he suffered in the 1st game of the season, undisclosed leg injury. But that still doesn't really excuse why he didn't do much in that game when he did have a lot of playing time before getting injured. Elite prospects put up numbers regardless, IMO, because coaches, especially at the college level, will force the ball into the hands of their elite athletes multiple times a game.

Direckshun
09-29-2014, 02:24 AM
SS Landon Collins, Alabama -- Alabama DBs, even highly touted ones, have struggled so much in the NFL during the Saban era that it's almost become its own meme. Robert Lester, Mark Barron, Dre Kirkpatrick, Dee Milliner, and now HaHa Clinton-Dix have all had tremendous struggles in the NFL (though HaHa is just starting). It makes you ask why anybody would take a shot on Collins whatsoever. Fortunately, that question has an answer: because Collins is a prototypical box safety with outstanding tackling fundamentals. There is no better tackler at the safety position in this year's draft than Collins, which is a big deal in today's NFL, where the Seattle Seahawks won a championship on the backs of a brilliant secondary and quality tackling. Collins will be tempting for Seahawk copycats. His problem is the same as all the others, however: can he cover. I've seen very little to suggest he can. He's a bigger safety (6'0", 215 lbs), and looks it on the field (I bet he times at 4.7). In his worst challenge to date, late year's bowl game against OU, he was torched regularly. But that doesn't detract from his brilliant tackling -- if you need a SS, he'd be a solid investment as early as the 2nd round.

Direckshun
09-29-2014, 03:29 AM
OLB Vic Beasley, Clemson -- As soon as the 2014 season ends, war rooms across the NFL will gather and begin discussing how to unlock the potential of Vic Beasley. In Beasley, you have one of the most electrifying passrushers in college football, with lightning speed around the edge, an absolutely gorgeous spin move, and ferocious tenacity that never takes a play off. Beasley is likely to time in the 4.5s, and flies across the field. What Beasley can't do, however, is play defensive end full time. Clemson plays Beasley with his hand in the dirt on 90% of the plays, but Beasley's slight frame of 6'3", 235 lbs is nowhere near NFL caliber for a fulltime end. Instead, Beasley will have to find a home at rushbacker or even an OLB in a 4-3 scheme much like Denver runs. Beasley is not just small, he's apparently not terribly strong: he is a finesse rusher, incapable of pushing back OTs who outweigh him by 80-90 lbs. He is terrible against the run, preferring to dodge blockers and take chances diving for the ballcarrier rather than holding up blockers and shedding them. And while he's perfectly athletic to play 4-3 OLB (which I'd argue he's physically perfect for), he has spent so little time at Clemson standing up and playing coverage. As a result, Beasley is perhaps this draft's most important project; a passrusher this brilliant needs to be unleashed, but a team needs to field him in a way that will utilize his tools without adversely affecting the team by playing him full time. I see him as a Top Ten pick, no question, he's only a little smaller than Von Miller and Barkevious Mingo who both went in the Top 5; Miller is a 4-3 OLB, Mingo is a 3-4 rushbacker.

Post Combine (2/24): Not remotely a worry that Beasley is big enough to be a full-time 3-4 OLB. He weighed in at 245, and it was CLEARLY all muscle. Incredible athlete, I think he's the best passrusher in this draft.

Direckshun
10-01-2014, 01:45 AM
DE/DT Michael Bennett, Ohio State -- As the NFL becomes more and more obsessed with metrics and "scheme fits," the Michael Bennetts of the draft are destined to fall past where they should be taken. What I see on film watching Bennett is a slightly undersized (6'2", 288) DT who plays his ass off, is a capable one-gapper and two-gapper, who looks smaller than he is and plays bigger than he is. He's not quite the sheer specimen that Allen Bailey is, but he's close. And OSU plays him typically at nose guard, despite his size. His first step is really good; he typically comes out of his stance violently colliding with offensive lineman, and he can play anywhere on the DL and do his job. His job, of course, is shooting gaps and clogging lanes -- he's nobody's idea of a passrusher. The biggest question is, where do you put him? It could be argued that he's on the small side to play inside in the 4-3 full time. However, he does look like he could be effective as a DE in any 3-4 that doesn't require much passrushing from him. He struggles two-gapping against large, powerful OL, and the Combine will likely reveal he has short arms. While I love how he plays, and think he looks like a 2nd or 3rd rounder, it's possible he falls farther because he doesn't fit the exact specifics typically required of his position.

Direckshun
10-01-2014, 11:42 PM
WR Amari Cooper, Alabama -- To watch Cooper at WR is to watch the sport as it's meant to be played. That sounds like overkill, but Cooper is a truly enjoyable watch on film because he is a perfect combination of athletic ability, superior technique, and wily intelligence. He reminds me of Reggie Wayne in so many ways: both players are unremarkable, size-wise (Cooper has an inch and about 5 lbs on Wayne), both have pretty good (not great) speed and athleticism (Wayne ran a 4.4 in 2001... Cooper should time similarly), both are insanely sharp route-runners that will take entire drives to set up CBs for specific moves and routes they want to capitalize on later, and so on. Cooper is extremely versatile -- he's an adept deep threat, he can rack up YACs on crossing routes, he can challenge in the red zone. He even blocks well in the run game. Cooper is the player every Super Bowl team needs. Because he lacks in elite measurables, he may fall outside of the Top 10, but he really shouldn't.

Direckshun
10-02-2014, 01:20 AM
CB P.J. Williams, Florida State -- For teams looking to copy the Seahawks mold, P.J. Williams should be in high demand. His size is somewhat relevant, as he's listed as 6'0", 196, but doesn't quite look that long. What really stands out is his press man coverage. The Seahawks defense is as good as it is because it reliably takes away QB's first looks, forcing them to take longer to pass which helps the passrush, and tackling well. Williams gets beat occasionally, but it almost always takes the WR forever to separate from him. He's physical all over the field, initiating contact at the line of scrimmage and using the sideline as an extra defender. He's able to stay in the hip pocket of receivers as he runs with them, despite lacking elite speed. Quarterbacks largely avoid throwing to him, and he's seemingly in the mix every single time they try. In the open field, Williams is an excellent tackler with a penchant for big hits. I was underwhelmed by his play against the run, but it wasn't bad, he just isn't the explosive presence that he is against the pass.

OldSchool
10-02-2014, 01:41 AM
CB + WR + ILB

Should be our picks in the top 3 rounds.

Marcus Cooper isn't really starter quality right now, giving up too many receptions.

Bowe is our only solid WR.

DJ is done as a great ILB in this league.

Direckshun
10-02-2014, 01:51 AM
OT/G La'el Collins, LSU -- I looked into Colins last year in depth, because I thought he was going to declare. Here's what I shared:

When Collins is on, he is an outstanding lineman in size, athleticism, toughness, technique, and versatility. When he's off, which does happen, he can lapse and give up some plays. With solid coaching, however, you can probably eliminate his negative tendencies and end up with a Pro Bowl caliber talent a few years down the road at either guard or right tackle. Right now, teams are potentially scouting him for left tackle, considering that was his position at LSU, and I have a really hard time believing he wouldn't be really good there, either.

His athleticism doesn't jump out at you, but he can get where he needs to get, and does plenty fine at the second level. He's somebody you can send out on screens without having much issue at all. Moreover, if Collins performs well at the Combine, these fears will be allayed almost entirely.

What really jumps out at you is Collins' runblocking. He's an extremely powerful runblocker who gets low and bulldozes through lineman of all shapes and sizes. Collins has the potential to play guard for 10 years at a very high level given his size (6'5", 321), his quickness off the ball, his technique in getting leverage, and his seemingly impressive strength.

But he's quick enough to handle the edge, as well. His kickslide is pretty decent, and he's very much one of those guys that finishes you when he gets his hands on you. He's just so strong, and does a great job of keeping his butt low to retain position.

If I was desperately hurting for a guard or a right tackle at #23, and had future aspirations to improve my LT position, Collins would be an outstanding candidate to move there. Strong, heady, pretty athletic, and just a great combination of technique in the passing game and brute strength in the run game.

From his time on LSU, you can pretty much plug him in right away and play. Collins has a really high floor -- but he's already pretty much where his ceiling is going to be. He's never going to become much better than he is now, and teams love upside prospects in the 1st round.

Projection for Collins: I'm higher on Collins than most, and I'd say he's definitely first round talent. He's everything NFL teams love in first-round tackles: he's really good in pass defense, has good technique, terrific push in the run game, can play multiple positions. The thing he's lacking is upside. There's some technique you could do with Collins, but the guy you get on Day One is the guy you got.

Projected Chiefs interest @ 23: Moderate. I honestly think Dorsey would bring in another OL in the first round if the player warranted it, but I think he wants a guy with way more upside than Collins. Collins, again, is a really good player and will be one of the best OL in his draft class, but he's probably not going to give you that game-changing All Pro talent that you're probably hoping for when you draft an OL like this in the 1st.

Direckshun
10-02-2014, 05:03 AM
DE/DT Mario Edwards, Jr., Florida State -- Mario is a lunch pail player who's impact on a defense is not very well summarized by his statistics. His ability to clog the line of scrimmage and to even apply some occasional pressure recall to mind Glenn Dorsey when he was a Chief (not Glenn Dorsey when he was a Wolverine or 49er). He's more able to provide pressure than Dorsey, but not yet the kind of powerful run-stopper Dorsey became. Edwards works very hard and rarely quits on a play, and showcases a surprising degree of speed when chasing after QBs (I predict he times at 4.8 -- pretty good for a 6'3", 298 lb). He's versatile, as well -- the Seminoles lined him up everywhere, and in 2013 even had him stand up as an edge rusher about 50% of the time (which he was terrible at). Edwards' place is as a 5-tech in a 3-4, but a 4-3 team could use him as a DT or even a DE in a pinch. He nets a few sacks a year, which I don't think will continue in the NFL. He'd be ideal as a two-gapper, in my opinion -- his has strong arms and a good base to hold up lineman, often times demanding double teams. He's projected as a 1st rounder right now by draft analysts, but I'd probably only look at him if I ran a two-gap 3-4, and I would take him in the 2nd round at the absolute earliest.

Edit (11/18): Yet again, this is a guy you must trust your coaches on if you're taking him in the first. You're talking about a guy with damn near prototypical size as a 3-4 DE, and has spent nearly 100% of his time rushing the passer with good results as a stand up passrusher at Florida State. He is going to be a massive, multi-year project for whoever drafts him, as they'll have to totally remake him, but I think he goes late in the 1st.

RunKC
10-02-2014, 08:58 AM
CB + WR + ILB

Should be our picks in the top 3 rounds.

Marcus Cooper isn't really starter quality right now, giving up too many receptions.

Bowe is our only solid WR.

DJ is done as a great ILB in this league.

This team needs an OL more than CB right now. Also, WR isn't used as much in Reid's offense. I think we could get one with one of our 3rd rd picks and be okay. Or sign Maclin (fingers crossed).

I still think that if we had a 2nd rd pick in 13, we draft Kiko Alonso. We went to Oregon to see him that year.
The Kendrick's kid could be an option, but it's clear that we need to build the foundation on the lines now that we have some weapons and a QB.

Alex is on pace for 28 TD's with shit at WR and OL. This guy will throw 30+ TD's if he has a better OL and one more weapon outside.

O.city
10-02-2014, 09:02 AM
WR would be at the top of my list. Need guys on the outside to scare defenses, other than Bowe.

Cooper would be option 1A. Or trade our 1st and a 3rd to the Browns for Gordon.

RunKC
10-02-2014, 10:06 AM
I would ideally like us to use our first 4 picks in rd 3 (Comp for Albert) on OL, WR, S and ILB.

Cooper is a nice #2 IMO. If Sean Smith keeps playing like this then he's worth the money. Also have Owens and Gaines behind him. That's solid. I think that safety is thin.

If there is a Zack Martin type OL who is very pro ready in rd 1, I don't see how we pass on him.

RunKC
10-02-2014, 10:11 AM
OT/G La'el Collins, LSU -- I looked into Colins last year in depth, because I thought he was going to declare. Here's what I shared:

This is my pick right now. Long arms, 6'5", stout square body, very quick off the line and does really well at the 2nd level.

Sounds like a wet dream for this front office.

O.city
10-02-2014, 12:51 PM
Wouldn't spend a first rounder on a guard, rather a wr

OldSchool
10-02-2014, 02:30 PM
I would ideally like us to use our first 4 picks in rd 3 (Comp for Albert) on OL, WR, S and ILB.

Cooper is a nice #2 IMO. If Sean Smith keeps playing like this then he's worth the money. Also have Owens and Gaines behind him. That's solid. I think that safety is thin.

If there is a Zack Martin type OL who is very pro ready in rd 1, I don't see how we pass on him.

The thing is, I hoped that Cooper would improve over last year. He has to an extent, not allowing any deep passes so far, but he is giving up over 70% completions to his player in coverage, that's not acceptable from a starting corner, IMO. Not with this pass rush. He needs to be at 60% at worst. Good thing is that most of this is underneath and it's ok if he can tackle them short of a 1st down, but he blew it against Lafell.

Drafting Marcus Peters in the 1st will help tremendously, either that or Cooper and Gaines developing into quality corners. I think Sean Smith, if he remains consistent in his level of play, should stick around for the duration of his contract.

RunKC
10-02-2014, 02:34 PM
The thing is, I hoped that Cooper would improve over last year. He has to an extent, not allowing any deep passes so far, but he is giving up over 70% completions to his player in coverage, that's not acceptable from a starting corner, IMO. Not with this pass rush. He needs to be at 60% at worst. Good thing is that most of this is underneath and it's ok if he can tackle them short of a 1st down, but he blew it against Lafell.

Drafting Marcus Peters in the 1st will help tremendously, either that or Cooper and Gaines developing into quality corners. I think Sean Smith, if he remains consistent in his level of play, should stick around for the duration of his contract.

I agree. I'm seeing quite a few good WR's and CB's projected in this draft
In rd 1.
If this OL becomes solid than wow.

I just look at Dallas and what they've done with their OL the last couple years and wow. Our OL gets like that with our current young players then wow.

OldSchool
10-02-2014, 02:34 PM
I would drop our 3rd round comp pick on OL. Of course, that's entirely dependent on what our FO decides to do with Hudson and in free agency. Also depends on what they think of Stephenson and Allen on a long term basis. If they don't think much of either guy, it's entirely possible that they drop one of our top 3 picks on OL.

OldSchool
10-02-2014, 02:43 PM
On another note, while we fans would love to see us draft a promising young WR, I don't think that it necessarily has to be a traditional WR.

I could see Dorsey becoming enamored with a guy like Funchess, who is a WR/TE tweener, and take him in the 1st round with 100% confidence in Andy Reid's ability to use "Offensive Weapons", guys who don't really have a true position but are super athletic and have some special trait, at his disposal. Funchess could easily be our version of Hernandez while Kelce assumes the role of a faster and more elusive Gronk.

To put the cherry on top, can you imagine Demetrius Harris in year 3? The guy has made tremendous strides from year 1 to year 2. If Reid is as good of a coach as I think he is, we could see something special between Kelce and Harris as soon as later this season.

OldSchool
10-02-2014, 02:53 PM
Kelce - 24 years old, 6'5" 260 pounds, 4.61 40 yard dash, 35" vert, already proven that he is a great receiving option.

Demetrius Harris - 23 years old, 6'7", 250 pounds, 4.52 40 yard dash, 36.5" vert, has shown tremendous improvements as a football player, still needs to learn how to win consistently with his size and route running, but he's only been playing football for 1 year since he did it in high school. The ceiling on this guy might be higher than Kelce when it's all said and done, let's see if Reid and Co can pull that out of him.

Then if you throw in a guy like Devin Funchess - 6'5", 230 pounds, projected 4.5 40 (has enough speed on tape to threaten down field), unknown vert but has shown the ability to elevate and high point over quality DBs.

If even just 2 of these guys pan out, that gives us 2 players that'll give D. Coordinators nightmares, on top of our RBs and DAT, because, physically, it's almost impossible to match them especially given the new rules in the passing game.

But I'll stop dreaming now.

nbarone007
10-02-2014, 10:26 PM
The development of Fisher, Hudson, Stephenson the rest of this season is going to be huge.

Chiefs need to go OL or DE in the 1st round and 2nd round. Think those spots are the biggest needs with the lack of production at OG and the loss of Mike DeVito.

We should have at least two third round picks. We need to make good use of them and i'd go ILB and CB.

Im choosing to address WR in free agency. We basically need a 'decoy' type WR that will run deep and bring a safety with him. That will open up the field for guys like Kelce, DAT, Bowe, Charles, Thomas etc...

nbarone007
10-02-2014, 11:30 PM
My first mock of 2015 (Have not dug too deep on players yet)

1st: Ty Montgomery- WR Stanford (Dynamic playmaker)
2nd: AJ Johnson- ILB Tennessee (Multiple year starter, big time run defender, SEC)
3rd: Eric Murray- CB Minnesota (Press man experience, played at a high level in big ten)
3rd: La'Raven Clark- OL Texas Tech (Versatile, multiple year starter)
4th: Melvin Lewis- DL Kentucky (Playing at a high level, can play NT)
5th: Derrick Malone- LB Oregon (Versatile and athletic)
5th: Isaiah Johnson- S Georgia Tech (Missed 2013, has athletic ability and was productive)
6th: Jacoby Brissett- QB NC State (The yearly developmental QB)
7th: Christian Jones- WR Alabama (Speed WR with KR/PR ability)
7th: Pharaoh Brown- TE Oregon (I like his name but he is 6'6 with good athletic ability)

I gave the Chiefs comp picks in the 3rd, 5th, and 7th. Not sure how comp picks work.

spanky 52
10-03-2014, 07:04 AM
ILB, WR, OL and CB. Re-sign Hudson and Bailey. Don't see Hali as a Chief next year.

Direckshun
10-03-2014, 08:01 AM
My first mock of 2015 (Have not dug too deep on players yet)

1st: Ty Montgomery- WR Stanford (Dynamic playmaker)
2nd: AJ Johnson- ILB Tennessee (Multiple year starter, big time run defender, SEC)
3rd: Eric Murray- CB Minnesota (Press man experience, played at a high level in big ten)
3rd: La'Raven Clark- OL Texas Tech (Versatile, multiple year starter)
4th: Melvin Lewis- DL Kentucky (Playing at a high level, can play NT)
5th: Derrick Malone- LB Oregon (Versatile and athletic)
5th: Isaiah Johnson- S Georgia Tech (Missed 2013, has athletic ability and was productive)
6th: Jacoby Brissett- QB NC State (The yearly developmental QB)
7th: Christian Jones- WR Alabama (Speed WR with KR/PR ability)
7th: Pharaoh Brown- TE Oregon (I like his name but he is 6'6 with good athletic ability)

I gave the Chiefs comp picks in the 3rd, 5th, and 7th. Not sure how comp picks work.

This is an excellent mock. Great job, n00b! You are very welcome here.

Direckshun
10-03-2014, 08:07 AM
The development of Fisher, Hudson, Stephenson the rest of this season is going to be huge.

Chiefs need to go OL or DE in the 1st round and 2nd round. Think those spots are the biggest needs with the lack of production at OG and the loss of Mike DeVito.

We should have at least two third round picks. We need to make good use of them and i'd go ILB and CB.

Im choosing to address WR in free agency. We basically need a 'decoy' type WR that will run deep and bring a safety with him. That will open up the field for guys like Kelce, DAT, Bowe, Charles, Thomas etc...

I would disagree. I think the Chiefs have their starting 5 on this roster for next year:

LT: Fisher
LG: Allen
C: Hudson (this is the #1 FA we must re-sign this offseason)
RG: Fulton
RT: Stephenson

We don't need to draft OL high. We do, however, have two of our DL becoming free agents (Bailey and Vickerson), and we're probably going to cut DeVito.

If that's the case, we need to re-sign Bailey. It's hard to say if the team wants to start Walker at the other DE spot. You'd think that if they wanted to, he'd be starting now. It's also possible that they like Jaye Howard to start. Which is reasonable.

If it were up to me, I'd re-sign Bailey AND Vickerson, and start them both.

Ultimately, I think Bailey, Vickerson, Walker, or Howard work as starters, and Catapano as decent depth. Whatever the Chiefs decide to do, I don't think DL is a high priority, either.

Right now, I agree with the folks who are saying the highest priorities should be WR and CB. Especially CB.

Direckshun
10-03-2014, 08:17 AM
With all the contracts we're going to need to sign in upcoming years, is anybody else entertaining the idea of letting Berry walk in free agency?

OldSchool
10-03-2014, 08:34 AM
With all the contracts we're going to need to sign in upcoming years, is anybody else entertaining the idea of letting Berry walk in free agency?

I would in all honesty, especially if we draft another safety high in the coming draft. Of course, this all depends on how much he's going to ask for. If he takes TJ Ward money, I'd keep him. Byrd money? Bye Berry, it was nice knowing you.

Build up front ala Panthers, 49ers, Cardinals, and become dominant there. IMO, that's the biggest key to becoming a consistently dominant defense.

If we put together a truly dominant front 7, which we're a lot closer to doing than putting together a good secondary, we can do well in the back end with guys who are assignment sound and have just enough instincts like an Abdullah.

OldSchool
10-03-2014, 08:39 AM
My first mock of 2015 (Have not dug too deep on players yet)

1st: Ty Montgomery- WR Stanford (Dynamic playmaker)
2nd: AJ Johnson- ILB Tennessee (Multiple year starter, big time run defender, SEC)
3rd: Eric Murray- CB Minnesota (Press man experience, played at a high level in big ten)
3rd: La'Raven Clark- OL Texas Tech (Versatile, multiple year starter)
4th: Melvin Lewis- DL Kentucky (Playing at a high level, can play NT)
5th: Derrick Malone- LB Oregon (Versatile and athletic)
5th: Isaiah Johnson- S Georgia Tech (Missed 2013, has athletic ability and was productive)
6th: Jacoby Brissett- QB NC State (The yearly developmental QB)
7th: Christian Jones- WR Alabama (Speed WR with KR/PR ability)
7th: Pharaoh Brown- TE Oregon (I like his name but he is 6'6 with good athletic ability)

I gave the Chiefs comp picks in the 3rd, 5th, and 7th. Not sure how comp picks work.

I don't really like Montgomery, too much of a linear athlete for me to think that he'll ever become a great all-around WR.

Would much rather draft a guy like Kevin White or Amari Cooper in the 1st.

Direckshun
10-03-2014, 08:49 AM
I don't really like Montgomery, too much of a linear athlete for me to think that he'll ever become a great all-around WR.

Would much rather draft a guy like Kevin White or Amari Cooper in the 1st.

The crappy thing about WR is that we don't really know what Dorsey likes there, yet. He's hardly brought anyone in!

He's paid Bowe, so he recognizes a good possession receiver. But look at the WRs he's freshly acquired, rather than extended: Avery, Jenkins, Thomas.

That suggests he cares about one thing above all else: motherfucking speed.

And there's one WR with a 1st round grade who has motherfucking speed, and is a Fisher/Ford-esque project, and that's Sammie Coates.

OldSchool
10-03-2014, 08:57 AM
The crappy thing about WR is that we don't really know what Dorsey likes there, yet. He's hardly brought anyone in!

He's paid Bowe, so he recognizes a good possession receiver. But look at the WRs he's freshly acquired, rather than extended: Avery, Jenkins, Thomas.

That suggests he cares about one thing above all else: mother****ing speed.

And there's one WR with a 1st round grade who has mother****ing speed, and is a Fisher/Ford-esque project, and that's Sammie Coates.

I struggle with Coates because he is so dang raw, I don't see him making it onto the field much as a rookie, not with Reid running things.

Direckshun
10-03-2014, 09:01 AM
I struggle with Fisher because he is so dang raw, I don't see him making it onto the field much as a rookie, not with Reid running things.

I struggle with Ford because he is so dang raw, I don't see him making it onto the field much as a rookie, not with Reid running things.

I struggle with Coates because he is so dang raw, I don't see him making it onto the field much as a rookie, not with Reid running things.

:D

RunKC
10-03-2014, 09:20 AM
I know people won't like this but I truly believe that if you have a QB, you start built in the key blocks: front 7 and OL. Front 7 looks really good right now aside from ILB. OL is meh, but in order to beat the tough teams you need a very good OL.
Look at the Cowboys OL. They've done a great job there.

SF has had so much success since 2011 bc they own the lines. That's how you win on the road. Give the QB time and pressure the QB.

Get a vet WR along with one in the draft, but build this thing up from inside out now that we have the QB.

RunKC
10-03-2014, 09:22 AM
Also, I hope Dorsey trades up for some players. If he can use extra picks to trade up into the first, or get that 3rd into the 2nd rd, we're in business.

Frosty
10-03-2014, 10:39 AM
I would disagree. I think the Chiefs have their starting 5 on this roster for next year:

LT: Fisher
LG: Allen
C: Hudson (this is the #1 FA we must re-sign this offseason)
RG: Fulton
RT: Stephenson

We don't need to draft OL high.

I really hope they can get an upgrade over Allen this off-season (though not in the 1st!). He just isn't a good guard and has plenty of time to prove it.

The Pest
10-03-2014, 10:54 AM
I really hope they can get an upgrade over Allen this off-season (though not in the 1st!). He just isn't a good guard and has plenty of time to prove it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Allen takes over at RT and the find a replacement at LG.

Frosty
10-03-2014, 11:11 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if Allen takes over at RT and the find a replacement at LG.

I don't mind keeping Allen as a swing tackle or RT, if he can beat out Stephenson, but no more Allen at G, please.

The Pest
10-03-2014, 11:15 AM
Fisher - LDT - Hudson - Fulton - Allen

The Pest
10-03-2014, 11:18 AM
Although for the love of fucking God.....move Kush to OG!

Direckshun
10-03-2014, 11:20 AM
It would be amazing if both LDT and Fulton panned out. I think it's pie in the sky thinking, but how great would that be.

That said, the team has too many needs to needlessly bench/cut Allen or Stephenson, who are nonetheless legitimately high investments at their positions and flashed enough to warrant another year.

After 2015, however, we'll almost certainly let both walk. The team has lots of options at guard in that case (LDT, Kush, maybe they bring back Linkenbach or McGlynn...), but they have squat at tackle. I anticipate they'll either bring Harris back for another year at swing tackle, or draft one high.

OldSchool
10-03-2014, 12:52 PM
Positions we have to absolutely address via FA or draft:

WR, CB, MLB

Upgrades would be nice:

5-tech, S, RT, both guard positions (although Fulton might get good enough by then and we still have the Canuck developing in the wings).

With all of our draft picks plus FA, if Dorsey can't accomplish that next off-season, then he doesn't deserve to be an NFL GM.

The Pest
10-03-2014, 12:54 PM
We desperately need WRs.....and a ton of them.

Direckshun
10-03-2014, 01:02 PM
We desperately need WRs.....and a ton of them.

I've been playing around with offseason hypotheticals.

I'm thinking the Chiefs can keep Hali, cut Bowe, sign Maclin in FA, keep Avery, and draft a WR in the first round.

Who's in?

OldSchool
10-03-2014, 01:47 PM
I've been playing around with offseason hypotheticals.

I'm thinking the Chiefs can keep Hali, cut Bowe, sign Maclin in FA, keep Avery, and draft a WR in the first round.

Who's in?

If we do that, we better draft a guy like Kevin White. Otherwise, we'd have absolutely no WRs who can win a contested 1 on 1 catch in the redzone.

The Pest
10-03-2014, 01:53 PM
I've been playing around with offseason hypotheticals.

I'm thinking the Chiefs can keep Hali, cut Bowe, sign Maclin in FA, keep Avery, and draft a WR in the first round.

Who's in?

Maclin isn't leaving the Eagles. They're ALREADY working on a contract mid-season.

the Talking Can
10-03-2014, 01:57 PM
WR is clear #1 need

ilb and cb are obvious needs, and guard i guess (though you should find them later)


but if we aren't going WR in the first, you could make an argument for DE...imagine another disruptor on the line next to poe (and on a rookie salary), multiplier effect

surround those two with cheap labor in the form of bailey, vickerson, and hopefully catapano

Direckshun
10-03-2014, 02:02 PM
I think Bailey is that disruptor.

OldSchool
10-03-2014, 02:05 PM
I think Bailey is that disruptor.

Uhhhh, he has 1 sack, that's mediocre considering how weak the Phins were up front and how weak the Pats were as well. Bailey still looks the same to me, hasn't improved his pass rush moves much at all, just gets stuck on blocks all of the time. We could use an upgrade at both 5-tech positions, but just 1 will do nicely.

OldSchool
10-03-2014, 02:10 PM
Bailey also only has 5 total tackles.

the Talking Can
10-03-2014, 04:41 PM
i almost added that...if you think highly of bailey, then don't need another

i think he's a fine rotation guy but we could use more as a starter

OldSchool
10-03-2014, 04:49 PM
One guy who will be a FA next year that I would take a long look at, Jared Odrick from Miami. He was becoming a really good player when Miami was still running a 3-4. Kind of lost in the shuffle now as a DT. I'd gladly welcome his addition to this team as a starting 5-tech who has some ability to rush the passer.

Direckshun
10-03-2014, 04:51 PM
Odrick was the 1st or 2nd top 3-4 DE that year he came out.

OldSchool
10-03-2014, 04:54 PM
And he has been steadily around 5 sacks a year after his rookie season. Also played 16 games a year since he missed pretty much all of his rookie season too.

O.city
10-03-2014, 09:11 PM
Buy low on Odrick, but I think Bailey is blossoming.

OldSchool
10-03-2014, 10:29 PM
Buy low on Odrick, but I think Bailey is blossoming.

Bailey has all of 5 tackles on the year and 1 sack, he's hardly blossoming. That's across 201 snaps or 81% of the total defensive snaps.

Jaye Howard has 6 tackles on 31.5% of the defensive snaps (78 total).

Vance Walker has 2 tackles and a sack on 31 total snaps.

Kevin Vickerson has 2 tackles on 22 snaps.

Poe has 10 tackles with 1.5 sacks on 216 snaps.

I'd take Odrick over Bailey, Howard, Walker, or Vickerson to start at 5-tech for us any day. He'd be a welcome upgrade, IMO.

staylor26
10-04-2014, 01:54 AM
When it comes to who's stays who goes in the offseason I see DJ, DeVito, Bowe and maybe Hali being gone. Hopefully we can work something out with Hali though and I'm sure we will try because he clearly has a good 3 years left in the tank.

I think Hudson, Smith and Houston will stay. We will obviously tag Houston if we can't get a deal done, but we must get him signed long term. Not sure what happens with Bailey.

I definitely agree on Odrick. I'd cut DeVito and sign him. If we can get Bailey back for a good price re-sign him also. If not we are fine with Odrick, Cat, Vickerson, Howard and Walker.

At ILB, I don't see any reason to try to upgrade over JMJ. His coverage ability makes him a very valuable every down LB and he's not bad against the run. Already an above average starter.

As for the other ILB spot I like Ramik Wilson from Georgia in the 2nd round. Or Denzel Perryman (Miami) if he were somehow available. Both guys can play all 3 downs and would make a good pairing next to JMJ with their downhill style of play.

Devin Funchess in the 1st would be best case scenario where we'll likely be picking. Him Kelce and Harris would give NFL DC's nightmares. Bowe being cut and drafting Funchess seems like a Dorsey move.

Another guy I find very intriguing Stefon Diggs out of Maryland. I think he'd be a great fit for Reid's offense and give us the type of explosive WR we've been lacking. Just don't know if he'll be a early-mid first.

After the first 2 rounds I'm thinking CB depth (I love Gaines so not as concerned as most) OL depth, another WR and more high upside Dorsey picks.

Direckshun
10-04-2014, 09:25 AM
Bailey has all of 5 tackles on the year and 1 sack, he's hardly blossoming. That's across 201 snaps or 81% of the total defensive snaps.

Jaye Howard has 6 tackles on 31.5% of the defensive snaps (78 total).

Vance Walker has 2 tackles and a sack on 31 total snaps.

Kevin Vickerson has 2 tackles on 22 snaps.

Poe has 10 tackles with 1.5 sacks on 216 snaps.

I'd take Odrick over Bailey, Howard, Walker, or Vickerson to start at 5-tech for us any day. He'd be a welcome upgrade, IMO.

This is just a shit way of evaluating DL. You do NOT do it by tackles and sacks (unless it's a passrusher), you evaluate it by play disruption.

Bailey is disrupting the LOS far more than Jackson or Dorsey ever did in the 3-4.

Direckshun
10-04-2014, 10:14 AM
RB Todd Gurley, Georgia -- Take a walk down imagination lane with me for a moment, close your eyes, and wonder in the deepest depths of your subconscious what it would have been like if Larry Johnson ever truly gave a shit? You would have had a 6'1", 230+ lbs running back who can not only run, but can block, go a few extra yards, and know how to use that big body to his advantage. In fact, you'd probably get Todd Gurley. I was shocked, after watching his tape, to learn that Gurley was 230 lbs. Gurley looks like he's 210 lbs, and he has those beautiful, long strides that eat up space. He has considerably less jukeage in his game than LJ did, but his acceleration might be even better. He's a three down back, as well, because he can receive well and block very well. Gurley shows plenty of patience in setting up blocks and letting the play develop, but he can hit a hole decisively without ever slowing down. I'd like to say he's a Top 10 talent, but he's probably worth going in the teens since he's not going to make a lot of people miss in the open field -- his change-of-direction is average, if not below average. He's not the directional pinball that Jamaal Charles is or even that Larry Johnson was. But he is a complete three down back that's NFL ready, having played in Georgia's pro-style offense.

Direckshun
10-04-2014, 11:03 AM
QB Brett Hundley, UCLA -- Hundley is a true bang-bust prospect at QB, and an intriguing one at that. This is a guy who has good size at 6'3", 220 lbs, and tons of arm. His game, at its peak, looks a lot like Alex Smith's: he plays it safe, is risk-averse, would rather take a sack than risk a throw, and has good (not great) athleticism for scrambling. He prefers wide open receivers, and will refuse to throw to most any risky, contested situation. This is troublesome at UCLA -- his offensive weapons are very limited, and his offensive line looks downright terrible. But Hundley still wins, playing a calm, collected style of play that you have to describe as game managing. Hundley, however, plays a simple one-read offense at UCLA, and will need at least a couple years of grooming in the NFL -- he's not someone you can plug in right away like Bortles. And his worst flaw is his throwing motion -- it looks like a half-release, not-quite-sidearm that isn't very high, which ends up getting tipped quite a bit. He is going to need lots of mechanics work in the NFL. Still, his arm, his athleticism, and his toughness will appeal to lots of coaches, and someone will take a flyer on the project. I'm grading him as a 3rd round investment, but someone could jump on him as soon as the 1st if they think he can pick up an NFL offense and fix his mechanics quickly.

Direckshun
10-04-2014, 11:34 AM
DE/OLB Dante Fowler, Jr., Florida -- I absolutely love watching Fowler play, but there is no question he has a long ways to go. Fowler's measurables are all over the place online -- he's universally regarded as 6'3", but his weight is listed anywhere from 260 to almost 280. Watching his tape this year, he looks like a trim, athletic 260. Fowler's forte is obvious to anybody watching any tape on him: the guy penetrates. He does an outstanding job getting into the backfield, and forces even the best offensive lines he faces to constantly double- and triple-team him to keep him neutralized. As a result, his sack numbers are pretty puny. It's doubtful that NFL offenses will be able to double-team him with any frequency, however, so it's likely a team will look at him as early as the 1st round. He does need to work on his fundamentals: his tackling is atrocious (it has cost him several sacks and TFLs over the past two years), and he does struggle at the point of attack against the run. There are questions if he can play the OLB position, but he looks hella fast and I think he's perfectly able to do it with some grooming. And perhaps most damning, there are questions about how well he responds to coaching -- the Florida coaches have a term called the Dante Fowler Way, which means if Dante doesn't see the results from doing things his coaches' way, he'll start freelancing. In the right situation, with the right locker room leadership, and the right longterm coaching, I think Fowler could be a major sack artist in the NFL. But who's willing to take that gamble, and where? I'd consider him in the 2nd round if I thought I had a locker room and staff that could handle him.

kc79
10-04-2014, 11:38 AM
What do you guys think about Goodley from Baylor. Plays in a spread offense has good speed

Direckshun
10-04-2014, 11:40 AM
Oh, I adore Goodley. He's one of my favorite players in the draft.

I love how he's put together. He's got good hands, and can be a YAC monster. I'm a big fan.

the Talking Can
10-06-2014, 06:18 AM
post 49er thoughts:

our offense has no vertical dimension...maybe it's wasted on Alex Smith, but we have got to get a WR w/ speed...we never get the lottery ticket big plays because we never even try them


game confirmed my belief that DL needs help...Bailey had a couple good plays, but most were cleaning up after powe wrecked shit, and we have no physicality against run on the edges

OldSchool
10-06-2014, 11:39 AM
post 49er thoughts:

our offense has no vertical dimension...maybe it's wasted on Alex Smith, but we have got to get a WR w/ speed...we never get the lottery ticket big plays because we never even try them


game confirmed my belief that DL needs help...Bailey had a couple good plays, but most were cleaning up after powe wrecked shit, and we have no physicality against run on the edges

Smith can make the throws. The timing just hasn't been there for anyone but Bowe and they haven't tried much since the Titans game due to poor pass protection on anything that required a 7 step drop.

Guarantee you that after the BYE, we're going to see a few seam routes to Kelce and DAT will definitely get more touches in the passing game.

Discuss Thrower
10-06-2014, 12:26 PM
post 49er thoughts:

our offense has no vertical dimension...maybe it's wasted on Alex Smith, but we have got to get a WR w/ speed...we never get the lottery ticket big plays because we never even try them


game confirmed my belief that DL needs help...Bailey had a couple good plays, but most were cleaning up after powe wrecked shit, and we have no physicality against run on the edges

There's absolutely no reason to invest in any sort of bona fide #1 WR with Alex Smith on the roster. None.

Go look at Crabtree's numbers with Smith versus with Kaepernick.

If Smith is your quarterback then you have to invest in OL to make him feel comfortable in the pocket, find a TE that's a clone of Vernon Davis and RBs with a Jamaal Charles or Brian Westbrook skillset.

Saccopoo
10-09-2014, 08:23 PM
After watching the Utah/UCLA game, I'm not so sure about Hundley for the next level. Big and strong, he's more of a Rothlisberger than a Smith. Takes a tremendous amount of sacks at the college level (Utah racked him up for NINE!) and that's not going to get any easier at the pro level.

Really doesn't go through progressions well and locks onto guys. That's part system, but he just doesn't move his eyes around even when pressure gets to him.

Determined team leader with personality.

Good arm, but the ball often floats.

It's not really his mechanics (his footwork looked pretty good and his throwing motion was okay), he just doesn't have very good awareness in the pocket and that's going to be a huge detriment at the next level.

Direckshun
10-10-2014, 12:55 AM
RB Melvin Gordon, Wisconsin -- Every year I try to peg who I think could be the next Jamaal Charles, and I think Gordon's it this year. Gordon lacks Charles' top-end speed, and doesn't quite have Charles' elite change-of-direction, but he hits his top gear in a crazy hurry, and can slip through the slightest cracks in the offensive line to reliably pick up really good yardage with every carry. Gordon doesn't quite have the toughness you need in an every-down back, but neither did Jamaal when he came into the league. Gordon is absolutely perfect for zone blocking and cutback schemes that allow him to pick his hole and explode through it. He's shown next to nothing as a receiver, due largely to Wisconsin's offensive limitations, but there's no reason he couldn't develop as a skilled receiver as well. Gordon has flashed as a superbly talented backup in Wisconsin's elite running program, and is just now getting a chance to flash his full potential. If his tape against LSU is any indication, it could legitimately be sky high. As of now, he's my favorite RB in this draft.

Direckshun
10-10-2014, 02:12 AM
CB Marcus Peters, Washington -- Peters is like the Tale of Two Cornerbacks. There's the Peters in coverage, and there's the Peters against the run, and they both seemingly exhibit completely different players. The Peters in coverage is the guy everybody's paying attention to, let's start there. Peters is a decently-sized, hardplaying CB who played primarily off-man for the Huskies. He shows really good timing, trying to beat WR's to the point of attack before they get there themselves. He plays a little zone too, and is ultimately capable of locking down a WR, other than a few mental lapses every game where he is capable of giving up a big play. He has great ballskills, and isn't afraid to give up a short pass if that's what it takes to neutralize a WR. Against the run, however, this savvy, intense player becomes very passive. He's aggressive when he gets to be the aggressor, and run up on a RB reeling in a pass in the flat, but when the run is directed towards him, he is easily blocked, and his tackling leaves some large room for improvement. I think Peters' size and abilities in coverage could be a really good fit in the right scheme (not the Chiefs' scheme), and he could go in the low 1st, high 2nd round.

Direckshun
10-10-2014, 03:13 AM
DE Shawn Oakman, Baylor -- Few things grab your attention more aggressively than a 6'9" passrusher who moves fluidly and with great speed. Oakman is undoubtedly going to be drafted in the Top Ten on measurable alone. Not only, at 6'9", 275 lbs, is he physically perfect for a 4-3 DE, but he seems to be athletic enough to play the 3-4 OLB position if a team actually gambled on him -- which they won't. Oakman's enough of a huge project to just get him to live up to his crazy potential, much less asking him to do something he never did at Baylor and stand up at the snap. The jolly green giant has extremely good explosiveness off the snap, and oftentimes is able to leverage his great size into the chest of the opposing tackle, who doesn't ever seem to be able to get their hands on him first. Oakman needs work on his tackling, and his run defense is suspect. But his get-off is fantastic by itself, and he's sure to blow up the Combine in 2015. Oakman is also a very hard worker on the field, pursuing a play even if it's run to the far end of the field. That said, he has only put up outstanding statistics this year against really bad offenses. The second he plays real NFL-caliber tackles, how will he adjust? He's going to be a massive project at the next level, and he can either use his amazing frame to take off immediately like Jason Pierre-Paul, or post middle stats while the franchise who drafted him waits on his potential like Ezekiel Ansah. I personally would take a hard look at him in the middle of the 1st at the soonest.

Direckshun
10-11-2014, 12:50 AM
QB Connor Cook, Michigan State -- I think Connor Cook's going to bust pretty hard in the NFL, despite the fact that he has a lot of tools I really like. He just has the entire makeup of all the QBs who "had potential" but floundered as soon as they faced an NFL defense. Cook is the "smart" QB who can manage his team's offense, "sometimes" making great throws with "pretty good" athleticism and "good size" at 6'4", 220 lbs. And it's all true -- I'd add that Cook is a savvy QB who knows how to read defenses, is playing under center in a pro-style offense and can make multiple reads on any given play. The problems with Cook are essentially two-fold, however: (a.) he wilts in the face of pressure, and (b.) he has only started in this offense for two years and his completion percentage against actual defenses is under 60%. In the NFL, if he has to face any extended time under center, he is going to see every blitz package created by man. And in the NFL, he's not going to suddenly figure out how to make better decisions and be more accurate with his passes -- there are times when Cook just flat-out misses people. For every touch-pass he lands, he sails two more. I like how tough he is, and how he can figure out how to try to use his athleticism and peek routes to escape pressure, but he's ultimately a guy who will get taken in the 2nd day of the draft by some team thinking he's got game manager potential. Maybe he does, but it's of the Matt Cassel variety at best.

Direckshun
10-11-2014, 01:36 AM
TE Devin Funchess, Michigan -- Funchess is on the cutting edge of the new wave of WR-like TEs in the mold of Jimmy Graham. Funchess arguably takes it farther than even Graham himself, by virtually dropping the pretense that he's a TE in any practical way; he rarely blocks, only runs routes, and is split out wide 100% of the time. The only reason Funchess isn't listed as a WR is because of his 6'5", 240 lbs frame. His athleticism compared to other TEs is off the charts -- he has good hands (though he could be more aggressive against tight coverage) and his YAC ability is outstanding. He honestly looks like a smaller Travis Kelce with the ball in his hands, and if the Chiefs are seriously considering making the multiple-TE set a reality, they should seriously consider investing here. Dorsey is likely to adore Funchess' measurables, and Funchess is only scraping his potential as his QB at Michigan is downright pathetic. Funchess is weak in the blocking game, struggling to maintain much enthusiasm for it despite his superior size to the DBs he's blocking. That will have to change in the NFL, as will his aforementioned aggressiveness against press man coverage. Funchess showcases soft hands with some inconsistent route-running (though they may be partially a product of Michigan's lousy playcalling and QBing) and one DB is almost never enough to bring him down. He is a size mismatch against most everybody he goes up against, as most linebackers will royally struggle to keep up with him. He's built slender and athletically, rather than the powerful, compact frame of Vernon Davis or even Travis Kelce, and runs with what I'd say is 4.5 speed. Definitely a 1st round talent for a team looking for a reliable weapon with big upside.

OldSchool
10-11-2014, 02:28 AM
I really don't like Funchess' game at all. I've never seen a more soft 6'5" and 240 pound receiver/TE.

Direckshun
10-11-2014, 02:31 AM
I really don't like Funchess' game at all. I've never seen a more soft 6'5" and 240 pound receiver/TE.

We don't need him to be a big tough dude. We need him to reel in catches and rack up YAC.

He can get tough in the run game. We coached Demetrius Harris from nothing, and Funchess has received terrible coaching.

We can rebuild him. We have the technology.

Exoter175
10-11-2014, 05:28 AM
Some serious lolworthy responses in this thread, god bless you CP.

Now, what I'm truly interested in, isn't the 1st or 2nd round guys, but the 3rd-5th round guys, as we should have 5-6 picks in that area in 2015, should we not get shafted on our "off season" dud pickups.

OldSchool
10-11-2014, 02:29 PM
What I mainly meant by him being soft was that there were way too many times where he tried to catch a ball with a little bit of contact and just flat out dropped it even though the DB was significantly smaller. I hate seeing that from big receivers because they'll almost always have to make contested catches in the NFL.

OldSchool
10-11-2014, 02:36 PM
Oh yeah, Direck, if you have access to tapes on Jaquiski Tartt, Safety out of Samford, would you mind reviewing him? Only video I've found of him was a youtube highlight reel with horrible music. Probably want to check out his games vs Arkansas last year and then TCU this year. The guy looked like a heatseeking missile in his highlights, way faster than anyone else around him. Crazy thing is, the guy has only been playing football for a few years and initially wanted to play basketball in college.

OldSchool
10-11-2014, 02:41 PM
Jaquiski Tartt will be playing against Auburn in November, another game you'll want to keep your eyes on if you want to check him out.

Direckshun
10-11-2014, 09:54 PM
I'll do that. I haven't seen any film on him, either, but I added him in my last mock because I liked some of the rumblings on him.

You turned me on to Zach Kerr last year, so I'll definitely look into it.

I really wonder why Kerr wasn't drafted.

OldSchool
10-11-2014, 10:09 PM
I'll do that. I haven't seen any film on him, either, but I added him in my last mock because I liked some of the rumblings on him.

You turned me on to Zach Kerr last year, so I'll definitely look into it.

I really wonder why Kerr wasn't drafted.

No clue why either, but he's been pretty good for a UDFA for the Colts. He has 7 tackles and a sack through 6 games for them. Pretty good for any rookie DT.

kccrow
10-11-2014, 10:40 PM
Here's a name for you to watch Direckshun... Adrian Amos - FS/CB - Penn State... Ballhawk that can hit like a truck in the open field.

Direckshun
10-11-2014, 11:23 PM
Awesome recommendation. Thanks.

Direckshun
10-12-2014, 05:48 AM
WR Dorial Green-Beckham, Oklahoma -- If there's a reason DGB shouldn't come out this year, I don't know it. He's not going to get much more refined by a year playing for the Sooners, even though he could put up astronomical numbers with Trevor Knight throwing to him. The only reason I can think of is the "show teams he can behave" myth. DGB behaving for a year when he knows the universe is watching him won't change anything. DGB will go in the Top 10 no matter what, much like Robert Quinn did a few years ago despite missing a year. DGB is bigger than every receiver entering this draft, and faster than nearly all of them. He doesn't quite possess Calvin Johnson's measurables or his hands, but he's still elite on both counts. His route-running will need some work, as he beat many DBs by just being bigger and faster than them. After the success Dallas has had containing Dez Bryant's insanity, teams will be more comfortable gambling on a guy who's just as talented. DGB is just huge, capable of overpowering defenders in the redzone and burning them deep on go routes. He's also difficult to bring down; I have visions of Dwayne Bowe, watching DGB break tackles. He's made a lot of poor decisions this far in his nascent career, but perhaps the worst would be staying in college another year instead of just cashing out now while the getting's good. DGB would trot into Draft season as everybody's #1 receiving talent, and a surefire Top 10 pick. I would compare him to Cordarrelle Patterson.

Direckshun
10-12-2014, 08:18 AM
NT Danny Shelton, Washington -- As a Chiefs fan, you learn to get spoiled watching nose tackles play football. Danny Shelton is a good (albeit limited) NT, but Poe is so explosive, powerful, and athletic, that Shelton is just pathetic by comparison. Which isn't entirely fair to Shelton -- he's a lunchpail defensive lineman, reliably absorbing double-teams so that his teammates can win one-on-ones. He is not comparable to Alameda Ta'amu, the last NT the Huskies churned out, and was drafted by the Steelers. Ta'amu had some quickness to his game, Shelton does not. He is 6'2", 340 lbs of pure, squatty power, a block of granite in the middle of the line, very difficult to move off the ball. That said, he's not an elite specimen at that tool, either; his burst off the line is average, and while he has great hustle, he's useless outside of the phone booth. He will be a pure two-down NT in the NFL, as his passrushing ability is nonexistent. He can shut down the A gaps against the run, however, which is his real calling card. Teams will probably ask him to slim down some, but his additional weight doesn't detract from his effort on the field. He plays almost exclusively as a two-gapper, engaging his blocker, then shedding them as the RB approaches, and his technique is strong there. Shelton looks like a 3rd rounder to me, maybe even a 2nd rounder if I was really desperate for a two-gapping NT.

Edit (11/18): I watch Shelton all year so far and I see a monster. I think this guy has Phil Taylor potential. He is a bear in the run game, and shows sneaky athleticism in penetrating the pocket and getting to the QB. I think he looks like the best NT the Draft has seen since Dontari Poe in 2012. Definite 1st rounder.

RunKC
10-12-2014, 10:53 AM
Looking at how much a good receiver like AJ Green helps Dalton, Megatron helps Stafford, Boldin helps Kaep and Emmanuel Sanders has helped Manning this year, I think that we should absolutely get one of these guys in the draft.

Cooper, Coates, etc. any would have helped so much.

Direckshun
10-12-2014, 10:21 PM
I really love Cooper (I am assuming DGB is not coming out this year). I think he'd be the best addition. But unless he really surprises me at the Combine, he is just not Dorsey material.

RunKC
10-12-2014, 11:12 PM
Dallas just raped Seattle's D by using that OL to push them around. Get a couple more OL and a first rd WR and we are looking damn good moving forward.

Direckshun
10-13-2014, 12:54 AM
OT Spencer Drango, Baylor -- Watching Baylor pile up over 700 yards on TCU this past weekend, including over 250 yards on the ground, you'd think Drango was a freaking superhuman. Drango looked every bit the kind of elite blocker he emerged as last year before his back injury. He has powerful legs that drive straight through defensive linemen, and good enough athleticism to get to the second level and neutralize linebackers. But TCU is not exactly indicative of the talent he'll face in the NFL. While he's been an incredibly capable blocker on the blind side for three years, he does lack top end athleticism, though he is unquestionably a strong technician. While he plays with good power, NFL teams will be taking a very close look at his back to see if it can hold up against NFL linemen. Drango will almost certainly fall to the 2nd round, primarily because NFL teams have become measurables whores who don't care about how well a player has his art mastered. But that's a shame -- Drango's perfect kickslide and good (not great) athleticism should translate well as a very good RT in the NFL.

Exoter175
10-13-2014, 11:03 AM
I really love Cooper (I am assuming DGB is not coming out this year). I think he'd be the best addition. But unless he really surprises me at the Combine, he is just not Dorsey material.

I beg to differ, he's Reid material, he just won't be available at our projected selection.

kccrow
10-13-2014, 08:19 PM
Love to see your takes on the following Direckshun:

WR Jaelen Strong - Arizona State
WR Justin Hardy - East Carolina (I love this kid)
CB Steven Nelson - Oregon State
OG Jarvis Harrison - Texas A&M
OG Tre Jackson - Florida State
LB A.J. Johnson - Tennessee
LB Stephon Anthony - Clemson
FS Adrian Amos - Penn State (I like this kid alot too)
DT Travis Raciti - San Jose State (I think the attitude and size are there, needs strength and technique)
OT Eric Lefeld - Cincinnati (Looks to have the tools to me but needs strength and hands work)
TE Jeff Heuerman - Ohio State

OldSchool
10-13-2014, 10:14 PM
So far from what I've seen, the draft stacks up like this:

1. 3-4 OLB prospects- Very strong (makes sense that Dorsey would take one in a relatively weak year and probably pass on one in a strong year, just like he did with ignoring the WR position)

2. OL - Strong

3. WR - above average

4. CBs - above average

5. 5-Techs/DTs- above average (mostly thanks to Williams)

6. QB - Average (Mariota is the only high 1st round lock)

7. S - average (I can see several rookie starters coming from this group. It's about the same level of talent as last year)

8. ILB - average (no one really stands out as the best of the bunch, several solid starters but no stars in the making)

9. TE - below average (weakest position whether or not you count Funchess as part of the group, be glad Dorsey took Kelce when he did)


Your thoughts?

Direckshun
10-13-2014, 10:18 PM
I beg to differ, he's Reid material, he just won't be available at our projected selection.

You're probably not wrong.

He doesn't fit the mold of the WRs Dorsey's brought in, however.

Direckshun
10-13-2014, 10:19 PM
Love to see your takes on the following Direckshun:

WR Jaelen Strong - Arizona State
WR Justin Hardy - East Carolina (I love this kid)
CB Steven Nelson - Oregon State
OG Jarvis Harrison - Texas A&M
OG Tre Jackson - Florida State
LB A.J. Johnson - Tennessee
LB Stephon Anthony - Clemson
FS Adrian Amos - Penn State (I like this kid alot too)
DT Travis Raciti - San Jose State (I think the attitude and size are there, needs strength and technique)
OT Eric Lefeld - Cincinnati (Looks to have the tools to me but needs strength and hands work)
TE Jeff Heuerman - Ohio State

I should have reviews of 100% of these talents by the time the Draft gets here. I think I have reviews of Strong and Raciti coming in pretty soon, actually.

Thanks for the recommendations, as always.

Direckshun
10-13-2014, 10:20 PM
So far from what I've seen, the draft stacks up like this:

1. 3-4 OLB prospects- Very strong (makes sense that Dorsey would take one in a relatively weak year and probably pass on one in a strong year, just like he did with ignoring the WR position)

2. OL - Strong

3. WR - above average

4. CBs - above average

5. 5-Techs/DTs- above average (mostly thanks to Williams)

6. QB - Average (Mariota is the only high 1st round lock)

7. S - average (I can see several rookie starters coming from this group. It's about the same level of talent as last year)

8. ILB - average (no one really stands out as the best of the bunch, several solid starters but no stars in the making)

9. TE - below average (weakest position whether or not you count Funchess as part of the group, be glad Dorsey took Kelce when he did)

Your thoughts?

I'm not as high on the CB talent at this point (we're still months away), and I pretty much hate the QB talent.

Every where else, I'm pretty much in agreement.

Direckshun
10-14-2014, 12:39 AM
WR Ty Montgomery, Stanford -- It's obviously extremely early in the process, but it would really surprise me if Ty Montgomery is not in the conversation for Chiefs fans as the next draft approaches. For my money, it'd be hard for Dorsey to pass on him: he runs incredibly fast for a 6'2", 215 lbs receiver, with every ounce of big play ability that you need. The Trees use him in bubble screens, in reverses, running deep routes, and so on. There's very little Montgomery can't do. And he's been productive with poor QB play, already having 350+ yards and three TDs in six games. Montgomery also plays with an intense passion, occasionally bordering on hostility, which should help in all the work he'll have to do in learning how to block better and to better refine his routes. He plays in Stanford's pro-style system, which is notorious for churning out reliable NFL talent. I'm just a huge fan, especially considering this is EXACTLY the kind of receiver the Chiefs need to be finding and investing in. I think he could go as high as the teens, and the Chiefs should absolutely bend over backward to bring him on board with their 1st.

Edit (11/18): Watching more Montgomery as the year wears on, and he looks a lot more like a great athlete than a great football player. He's lacking in a lot of fundamentals and will need work running routes. He reminds me of AJ Jenkins, honestly, although it would be hard to duplicate how snakebit Jenkins seems to be. I'd put a 2nd day grade on Montgomery.

Direckshun
10-14-2014, 01:06 AM
DE/DT Eddie Goldman, Florida State -- It would be fascinating to see what becomes of Goldman if he declared this year. Goldman is finally getting a full season as a starter at DT (rather than filling in last year at DE), and has started living up to some of his gargantuan promise when he was the #1 recruit in the country in 2012. Goldman has just a humongous frame at 6'4", 320 lbs, and he is all power. He has a great explosion off the snap, which he uses to unsettle OL, which reliably empowers him to control his gap. He is next to impossible to move off the line of scrimmage, and that's where his strength largely is: absorbing space so others can make plays. He's probably the best two-gap 3-4 DE prospect in this draft, and would have an outside shot at going in the first round. Goldman does suffer from a lack of athleticism, however, and I'd grade someone like 2009's Tyson Jackson a full grade better than him due to that. There's no denying his long, powerful arms, however, and that'll give him plenty of edge over most OL as he develops his technique. Goldman should focus on losing some weight if he does declare, and working hard on his passrushing moves, which are right now fully inadequate. His upside, as of now, is probably Tyson Jackson. How valuable you view that is where Goldman should be taken -- in my opinion, his roof is the bottom of the 1st round.

Edit (11/18): Goldman is an absolute load that the line of scrimmage. He looks great against the run and he gets good push on the pocket. I think he can play anywhere on the DL in the 3-4 and would be a great NT in the 4-3. Goldman's one of my favorite DL in this draft, and I think he's going to absolutely destroy at the Combine. He could go as high as the teens.

Direckshun
10-14-2014, 02:53 AM
OLB Shaq Thompson, Washington -- This is odd to say for a player who won't go on the 1st day of the draft, but Shaq Thompson may be one of the safest players in this draft. For three years he has played in the offense-happy Pac 10 and consistently put up numbers that reflect the full range of what he's capable of doing. He's not a big passrusher, as he's only put up 4-5 sacks over the past two years, but this kid is great in space. He has a ways to be coached up, too, which should entice some team that's obsessed with big upside in their prospects. Thompson can mark up tight ends and even some receivers well downfield. He is a form tackler -- he uses his excellent speed (he should flirt with running a 4.5) to get to the ballcarrier, and effectively breaking down for the tackler. He has excellent hands and can really go up and get a ball when QBs try to beat him over the top. He's been one of the most prolific tacklers of the past three years, and hasn't been missed time due to injury. The two biggest weaknesses in his game are both largely correctable: (a.) he could diagnose plays faster, and (b.) he's far better playing away from the LOS compared to how he plays up against it -- he can use his athleticism to beat blocks in college, but he is going to need to shed them in the NFL. I think just about any team could use him in any scheme, and I think he's a second day pick due to his athleticism and scheme versatility. As of now, he makes the most sense as a 4-3 OLB.

Edit (11/18): I love watching Thompson play. He is a true sideline-to-sideline player with passrushing ability and great coverage tools. He'll need a little work in the NFL, but Shaq Thompson looks like a late 1st round pick to the first linebacker-starved team that needs him.

Exoter175
10-14-2014, 05:04 AM
You're probably not wrong.

He doesn't fit the mold of the WRs Dorsey's brought in, however.

And how many WR's has Dorsey brought in to this organization?

Avery? Jenkins?

Prototypical size/speed for Andy Reid's offense, not a "Dorsey" size/type combinator.

I'm telling you guys, and I've been saying it for a while now, Dorsey doesn't have a "mold", he doesn't have a "prototype" of a guy for this or that position. He assesses what his positional needs are in the system in place, with the coach in place, considers contracts, future up and coming "star types" (2-3 years down the road), looks at the free agency lists for reach upcoming season and so forth, then adjust and scale to fit into a simpler approach, and then come draft day he's making decisions based on his homework, using things like Decision Lense as "validation" for his work, or simply using them when the immovable object meets the unstoppable force and he's got a decision to make on it.

In GB, he drafted very well for their system, here, he's again drafted very well for the system.

He hasn't gone out and drafted any players for us that are "Dorsey Players" that aren't also "Reid Players", and that's where some guys are getting confused on this whole "Dorsey guy" and "Decision Lense" BS when it comes to his drafting. The measurements and tangible metrics are certainly going to get you "on" the list (Decision Lense and Dorsey Player), but the decision itself comes down to so much more, and believe it or not, Reid has a hell of a lot of say in that.

Direckshun
10-14-2014, 05:45 AM
Say what you will, but if I can call Phillip Gaines two months in advance of Dorsey drafting him, then he's got a type.

OldSchool
10-14-2014, 08:53 AM
WR Ty Montgomery, Stanford -- It's obviously extremely early in the process, but it would really surprise me if Ty Montgomery is not in the conversation for Chiefs fans as the next draft approaches. For my money, it'd be hard for Dorsey to pass on him: he runs incredibly fast for a 6'2", 215 lbs receiver, with every ounce of big play ability that you need. The Trees use him in bubble screens, in reverses, running deep routes, and so on. There's very little Montgomery can't do. And he's been productive with poor QB play, already having 350+ yards and three TDs in six games. Montgomery also plays with an intense passion, occasionally bordering on hostility, which should help in all the work he'll have to do in learning how to block better and to better refine his routes. He plays in Stanford's pro-style system, which is notorious for churning out reliable NFL talent. I'm just a huge fan, especially considering this is EXACTLY the kind of receiver the Chiefs need to be finding and investing in. I think he could go as high as the teens, and the Chiefs should absolutely bend over backward to bring him on board with their 1st.

Montgomery has really inconsistent hands. Multiple huge drops in Stanford's loss to Notre Dame.

Stanford junior WR Ty Montgomery "dropped at least three passes while playing wide receiver and wasn't able to beat the Irish to the perimeter when running out of the backfield" on Saturday against Notre Dame, wrote CBS Sports' Rob Rang.
Montgomery had four catches for 12 yards and 14 yards on five rushing attempts. "Footballs landing on the grass after bouncing off his chest plate were the most obvious mistakes for Montgomery," Rang wrote. "Scouts will notice other errors, however, including shoddy route-running that contributed to an interception on the first snap of the fourth quarter." Stanford QB Kevin Hogan seemed to lose faith in Montgomery as the game went on. Former NFL GM Phil Savage believes Montgomery will be selected in the first round, but we'll need to see a lot of improvement before we buy that. Oct 6 - 1:31 AM

I really don't like him and especially not in the 1st. He's a straight line guy, very much like Ted Ginn Jr. or DHB, with bricks for hands.

Direckshun
10-15-2014, 01:24 AM
Montgomery has really inconsistent hands. Multiple huge drops in Stanford's loss to Notre Dame.

Not a problem with Dorsey.

I really don't like him and especially not in the 1st. He's a straight line guy, very much like Ted Ginn Jr. or DHB, with bricks for hands.

I don't think he's a straight line guy at all -- what does that even mean? He runs every route on the route tree in Stanford's pro style offense.

Direckshun
10-15-2014, 01:40 AM
ILB Benardrick McKinney, Mississippi State -- A high tide raises all boats, as they say, and it's natural to assume that the recent groundswell of love for Benardrick McKinney is due to the Bulldogs' ascent to the #1 spot. The problem is, however, I can't remember being less enthused about a player supposedly projected to go somewhere in the top three rounds of the Draft. There's no question he's a very large LB even by NFL standards: 6'5" (!!!), 250 lbs, a truly imposing presence on the field. But I can't pinpoint anything he does that screams "draft me." As you'd probably expect for a guy this size, he's horrid in coverage. The Bulldogs play primarily zone coverage with their 'backers, and McKinney is utterly lost in it, either out of position or (far more frequently) in no man's land. He doesn't eat up space well at all -- he looks like he runs a 4.8 at best -- and he's not remotely a sideline-to-sideline player. Truth be told, he's built to ransack the line of scrimmage, but he's not particularly great there, either. He has good gap integrity, but he frequently gets washed out and struggles to shed blocks. His passrushing is nonexistent, as can be expected for a guy who drops into coverage close to 100% of passing downs, and his tackling is woeful as well. There might be a team somewhere that loves his measurables and think they can turn him into a quality thumper. (It is curious to me that Mississippi State puts a guy his size constantly deep into coverage.) As of now, I'd consider passing on him until deep into the draft.

Exoter175
10-15-2014, 09:05 AM
Say what you will, but if I can call Phillip Gaines two months in advance of Dorsey drafting him, then he's got a type.

Considering Gaines had the perfect combination of Size, length, speed, and coaching to FIT in Sutton's defense, it wasn't a far off pick at all. In fact, I had him ranked #3 on my list of "guys" for this system in terms of measurables and talent, and drafting positional value. You're not alone, nor are you some magical fortune teller that called it without anyone else saying a thing lol. Interestingly enough, Gaines is playing better on special teams in the NFL than ANY talking head ever gave him credit for, assuming he'd be a "nickel" corner type who saw a limited role on ST. Fastforward to now and he's a ST stud who's about to see some serious time going forward in this defense with Owens and Berry both out. I could totally see him on the outside in a few of these packages.

ILB Benardrick McKinney, Mississippi State -- A high tide raises all boats, as they say, and it's natural to assume that the recent groundswell of love for Benardrick McKinney is due to the Bulldogs' ascent to the #1 spot. The problem is, however, I can't remember being less enthused about a player supposedly projected to go somewhere in the top three rounds of the Draft. There's no question he's a very large LB even by NFL standards: 6'5" (!!!), 250 lbs, a truly imposing presence on the field. But I can't pinpoint anything he does that screams "draft me." As you'd probably expect for a guy this size, he's horrid in coverage. The Bulldogs play primarily zone coverage with their 'backers, and McKinney is utterly lost in it, either out of position or (far more frequently) in no man's land. He doesn't eat up space well at all -- he looks like he runs a 4.8 at best -- and he's not remotely a sideline-to-sideline player. Truth be told, he's built to ransack the line of scrimmage, but he's not particularly great there, either. He has good gap integrity, but he frequently gets washed out and struggles to shed blocks. His passrushing is nonexistent, as can be expected for a guy who drops into coverage close to 100% of passing downs, and his tackling is woeful as well. There might be a team somewhere that loves his measurables and think they can turn him into a quality thumper. (It is curious to me that Mississippi State puts a guy his size constantly deep into coverage.) As of now, I'd consider passing on him until deep into the draft.

Uhhh, I think you're off a little on this one, especially in regards to his pass rush and him being a sideline to sideline player.

That being said, like I said in the other thread, he's a thumper with a pass rush who I don't see being the prototypical "signal caller" type that we're going to need to replace DJ with. He's more of a Jovan Belcher type, and I"m okay with that.

OldSchool
10-15-2014, 09:50 AM
ILB Benardrick McKinney, Mississippi State -- A high tide raises all boats, as they say, and it's natural to assume that the recent groundswell of love for Benardrick McKinney is due to the Bulldogs' ascent to the #1 spot. The problem is, however, I can't remember being less enthused about a player supposedly projected to go somewhere in the top three rounds of the Draft. There's no question he's a very large LB even by NFL standards: 6'5" (!!!), 250 lbs, a truly imposing presence on the field. But I can't pinpoint anything he does that screams "draft me." As you'd probably expect for a guy this size, he's horrid in coverage. The Bulldogs play primarily zone coverage with their 'backers, and McKinney is utterly lost in it, either out of position or (far more frequently) in no man's land. He doesn't eat up space well at all -- he looks like he runs a 4.8 at best -- and he's not remotely a sideline-to-sideline player. Truth be told, he's built to ransack the line of scrimmage, but he's not particularly great there, either. He has good gap integrity, but he frequently gets washed out and struggles to shed blocks. His passrushing is nonexistent, as can be expected for a guy who drops into coverage close to 100% of passing downs, and his tackling is woeful as well. There might be a team somewhere that loves his measurables and think they can turn him into a quality thumper. (It is curious to me that Mississippi State puts a guy his size constantly deep into coverage.) As of now, I'd consider passing on him until deep into the draft.

Not a big fan of his. He got exposed in space pretty badly in a couple of games that I saw. IMO, he is at his best when he is allowed to run downhill and attack the LOS. Might be a Hightower clone. He beat Ogbuehi for a sack against Texas A&M.

Exoter175
10-15-2014, 07:01 PM
Not a big fan of his. He got exposed in space pretty badly in a couple of games that I saw. IMO, he is at his best when he is allowed to run downhill and attack the LOS. Might be a Hightower clone. He beat Ogbuehi for a sack against Texas A&M.

Exactly, and we've been missing that type of linebacker since Jovan IMO. He wasn't the greatest at his position, god rest his soul, but he was very solid at attacking the LoS and was a very solid counterpart to DJ. I was hoping Nico or JMJ would fill that role, alas, didn't happen and now DJ's career looks questionable. We need a CJ Mosley in this draft and I fear there just isn't one available except for maybe that Linebacker from UCLA, Eric Kendricks.

OldSchool
10-15-2014, 07:14 PM
Exactly, and we've been missing that type of linebacker since Jovan IMO. He wasn't the greatest at his position, god rest his soul, but he was very solid at attacking the LoS and was a very solid counterpart to DJ. I was hoping Nico or JMJ would fill that role, alas, didn't happen and now DJ's career looks questionable. We need a CJ Mosley in this draft and I fear there just isn't one available except for maybe that Linebacker from UCLA, Eric Kendricks.

Kendricks looks great at times and terrible at others because of the angles that he takes. His arms are also too short for him to effectively shed blockers. I'd wait a year to draft his teammate, Myles Jack or someone else. The ILB talent just isn't anything to get excited over in the 2015 draft. It'll be better to spend the draft picks elsewhere at positions that are stronger in the draft instead of reaching for a weak position.

If you want a thumper who can stop the run, Foster and Spikes will be available in 2015 in FA. Want a coverage LB who is a bit below average in run support but great in coverage? KJ Wright will be available out of Seattle. There are pieces to be had in FA that should help hold us over until a stronger ILB class is available in 2016.

Exoter175
10-15-2014, 07:30 PM
Kendricks looks great at times and terrible at others because of the angles that he takes. His arms are also too short for him to effectively shed blockers. I'd wait a year to draft his teammate, Myles Jack or someone else. The ILB talent just isn't anything to get excited over in the 2015 draft. It'll be better to spend the draft picks elsewhere at positions that are stronger in the draft instead of reaching for a weak position.

If you want a thumper who can stop the run, Foster and Spikes will be available in 2015 in FA. Want a coverage LB who is a bit below average in run support but great in coverage? KJ Wright will be available out of Seattle. There are pieces to be had in FA that should help hold us over until a stronger ILB class is available in 2016.

Dorsey's going to build the corps through the draft. You know it, I know it, we just aren't going to drop big money on free agency, which means not landing legitimate starter level talent at areas of intense need, like ILB/MLB right now.

Now, if I'm not mistaken, Jack is not a signal caller type. While he's pretty solid all over the field, he's not your Ray Lewis, Urlacher, DJ type to really harness the defensive adjustments, and I believe Kendricks might actually be the ONLY guy from this class that can do that. Sometimes you have to forego a little talent to build the "right" personnel, and simply having one solid pass coverage ILB and one thumper isn't the "right" way to do things if that pass coverage guy can't command the defensive unit, that's kind of the "biggest" deal for an ILB/MLB at the NFL level.

Furthermore, if Dorsey's even REMOTELY planning a mass exodus of long time starters with age/questionable health on this team, you know damned well he's not going to overload Free Agency pickups that could potentially offset the compensatory selection process.

I'd bet dollars against pennies right now that we're going to see a big time defensive+Oline draft in 2015, and it's going to bore the shit out of people, and people will cry about not drafting Jameis Winston, or X, Y, or Z receiver, but it'll be a smart move on Dorsey's part. Draft your depth/immediate starter needs, use the extra cap space to land a WR in Free Agency, and continue to rebuild from there. There's going to be a number of solid #2's and even a couple aging #1's available in 2015, so I'm banking on our first three rounds being some combination of Oline, DB, LB.

Direckshun
10-15-2014, 08:03 PM
Considering Gaines had the perfect combination of Size, length, speed, and coaching to FIT in Sutton's defense, it wasn't a far off pick at all. In fact, I had him ranked #3 on my list of "guys" for this system in terms of measurables and talent, and drafting positional value. You're not alone, nor are you some magical fortune teller that called it without anyone else saying a thing lol.

That's exactly what I'm saying! If you and I are both targeting players as players the Chiefs are likely to select far in advance of the Chiefs actually selecting them... Then that's very much a clue that we know what Dorsey wants.

That's all I'm saying, really.

Interestingly enough, Gaines is playing better on special teams in the NFL than ANY talking head ever gave him credit for, assuming he'd be a "nickel" corner type who saw a limited role on ST. Fastforward to now and he's a ST stud who's about to see some serious time going forward in this defense with Owens and Berry both out. I could totally see him on the outside in a few of these packages.

I've been incredibly encouraged by Gaines' special teams play. And he didn't look bad in the spotwork he did against New England.

His preseason was so horrendous, I have soured my hopes of him becoming an eventual starter -- which is what you want in a 3rd round corner who's 6'1" with 4.3 speed.

But here's hoping.

Direckshun
10-15-2014, 08:09 PM
Uhhh, I think you're off a little on this one, especially in regards to his pass rush and him being a sideline to sideline player.

That being said, like I said in the other thread, he's a thumper with a pass rush who I don't see being the prototypical "signal caller" type that we're going to need to replace DJ with. He's more of a Jovan Belcher type, and I"m okay with that.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm often wrong on a lot of players. :)

I'll say this much: I'm not crazy about how the Bulldogs use him. It's not quite as bad as how Memphis used Dontari Poe, but you're talking about a gargantuan linebacker with below average athleticism, and MSU drop him into coverage constantly.

Makes no sense. This is a guy who is built for slamming into the line of scrimmage.

I think he has a future as a two-down thumper, but I just don't like his lack of athleticism enough. With his size, he should have been coached up years ago as a DE.

Direckshun
10-15-2014, 08:26 PM
Not a big fan of his. He got exposed in space pretty badly in a couple of games that I saw. IMO, he is at his best when he is allowed to run downhill and attack the LOS. Might be a Hightower clone. He beat Ogbuehi for a sack against Texas A&M.

Exactly, and we've been missing that type of linebacker since Jovan IMO. He wasn't the greatest at his position, god rest his soul, but he was very solid at attacking the LoS and was a very solid counterpart to DJ. I was hoping Nico or JMJ would fill that role, alas, didn't happen and now DJ's career looks questionable. We need a CJ Mosley in this draft and I fear there just isn't one available except for maybe that Linebacker from UCLA, Eric Kendricks.

Kendricks looks great at times and terrible at others because of the angles that he takes. His arms are also too short for him to effectively shed blockers. I'd wait a year to draft his teammate, Myles Jack or someone else. The ILB talent just isn't anything to get excited over in the 2015 draft. It'll be better to spend the draft picks elsewhere at positions that are stronger in the draft instead of reaching for a weak position.

If you want a thumper who can stop the run, Foster and Spikes will be available in 2015 in FA. Want a coverage LB who is a bit below average in run support but great in coverage? KJ Wright will be available out of Seattle. There are pieces to be had in FA that should help hold us over until a stronger ILB class is available in 2016.

Two things to add to this:

1. Dorsey has effectively replaced Belcher with Akeem Jordan who was very solid last year, and now Joe Mays, who looked great when he was healthy. We'll see how he plays when he returns. Even Mauga looks alright -- it's honestly the least important position on the defense, since the Chiefs player nickel and dime so much.

2. As a result, the Chiefs need to worry about replacing DJ more than they do Belcher/Jordan/Mays at the SILB position (Mays is under contract for next year anyway). The WILB is very important, and we had one of the game's best manning it for the past five years. And there's some pretty good talent to be had on the 2nd day of the draft.

Direckshun
10-16-2014, 01:57 AM
ILB Denzel Perryman, Miami -- The Draft actually has a handful of really interesting Day 2 talents that could ostensibly be plugged in as a solid Day One starter at ILB, and Perryman's at the fore of this group. Perryman's tape is very fun to watch -- he is an exciting combination of instincts, athleticism, and crazy raw power. The thing that immediately jumps out is how violent he is at the line of scimmage -- at 6'3", 240 lbs, he hits the trenches like a missile, and seems to attack the OL like a defensive lineman. It's very fun to watch. He is an enthusiastic defender against the run, and even though he struggles when teams run downhill right at him, he is elite chasing down a run play to the sidelines where he can be the aggressor. He does have glaring weaknesses there, however: (a.) he poorly disguises what he's going to do pre-snap, (b.) his tackling is lacking, and (c.) again he struggles to shed blocks when the offense runs downhill. But his athleticism, while not elite, is still well above average, which he applies to his coverage abilities, which are strong. I can't help but think this guy is an above-average starter at linebacker in three years' time, and a quality starter right away if coaches can fine-tune his ability to tackle and shed blocks. I think he is worth an investment on the second day of the draft.

OldSchool
10-16-2014, 07:39 AM
ILB Denzel Perryman, Miami -- The Draft actually has a handful of really interesting Day 2 talents that could ostensibly be plugged in as a solid Day One starter at ILB, and Perryman's at the fore of this group. Perryman's tape is very fun to watch -- he is an exciting combination of instincts, athleticism, and crazy raw power. The thing that immediately jumps out is how violent he is at the line of scimmage -- at 6'3", 240 lbs, he hits the trenches like a missile, and seems to attack the OL like a defensive lineman. It's very fun to watch. He is an enthusiastic defender against the run, and even though he struggles when teams run downhill right at him, he is elite chasing down a run play to the sidelines where he can be the aggressor. He does have glaring weaknesses there, however: (a.) he poorly disguises what he's going to do pre-snap, (b.) his tackling is lacking, and (c.) again he struggles to shed blocks when the offense runs downhill. But his athleticism, while not elite, is still well above average, which he applies to his coverage abilities, which are strong. I can't help but think this guy is an above-average starter at linebacker in three years' time, and a quality starter right away if coaches can fine-tune his ability to tackle and shed blocks. I think he is worth an investment on the second day of the draft.

Huh? You seem to have a lot of things backwards on Perryman, lol. Everything that I've read and everything that I've seen on him are:

1. Great fundamental and explosive tackler.
2. Sound in his drops but lacks instincts in coverage.
3. He's only 6'0" tall at best and will likely measure closer to 5'11".

Perryman, to me, is basically Joe Mays with the potential of turning into Navorro Bowman if he develops well and can clean up some things.

smith11
10-16-2014, 08:36 AM
Montgomery has really inconsistent hands. Multiple huge drops in Stanford's loss to Notre Dame.



I really don't like him and especially not in the 1st. He's a straight line guy, very much like Ted Ginn Jr. or DHB, with bricks for hands.

he wont win the measurables contest but i think rashad greene from florida state may be the most productive receiver--dude gets open

Direckshun
10-16-2014, 12:46 PM
Huh? You seem to have a lot of things backwards on Perryman, lol. Everything that I've read and everything that I've seen on him are:

1. Great fundamental and explosive tackler.
2. Sound in his drops but lacks instincts in coverage.
3. He's only 6'0" tall at best and will likely measure closer to 5'11".

Perryman, to me, is basically Joe Mays with the potential of turning into Navorro Bowman if he develops well and can clean up some things.

You're right on the height -- and I knew that... not sure why I got that wrong.

I agree he's an extremely explosive tackler, he just needs to break down better when in space. It's not a huge complaint.

Direckshun
10-16-2014, 12:51 PM
he wont win the measurables contest but i think rashad greene from florida state may be the most productive receiver--dude gets open

He's a very interesting prospect.

Direckshun
10-16-2014, 02:58 PM
OLB Shane Ray, Missouri -- Ray fits to a "T" what the Chiefs love to do with their rushbackers. The Chiefs love to put all three of them on the field on third-and-longs, put Houston's hand in the dirt at the three-tech, and send all three shooting gaps into the backfield. The Chiefs love OLBs who have a really great first step and can turn the corner fast, with lots of enthusiasm and plenty enough athleticism to drop into coverage. In a way, it's almost a shame that the Chiefs drafted Dee Ford in the first last year, because Ray is exactly what they love at the position. The only thing Ray lacks is an elite first step, though because Missouri does put his hand in the dirt about 95% of the time, he has very little experience dropping into coverage. But he'd be a natural successor to Hali's spot -- he's already got a few passrush moves, though they all need work. His motor is excellent; he will track plays down from the backside and keep his passrush on throughout a play, even if he can't seem to wring free of the tackle. Ray plays with pretty good power but a whole lot of finesse, as he is slightly undersized at a maxed-out 6'3", 245 lbs. I don't think he has the power to hold up as a 4-3 DE, but teams asking him to blaze off the edge and move QBs off their spot should seriously consider Ray in the middle- to the late-1st round.

Exoter175
10-16-2014, 08:44 PM
That's exactly what I'm saying! If you and I are both targeting players as players the Chiefs are likely to select far in advance of the Chiefs actually selecting them... Then that's very much a clue that we know what Dorsey wants.

That's all I'm saying, really.



I've been incredibly encouraged by Gaines' special teams play. And he didn't look bad in the spotwork he did against New England.

His preseason was so horrendous, I have soured my hopes of him becoming an eventual starter -- which is what you want in a 3rd round corner who's 6'1" with 4.3 speed.

But here's hoping.

Well, remember though, everyone's a rookie once. The fact that he's kicking ass on Special Teams is evidence enough, for me, that's he's willing to work through it and become better. That's a huge plus for any #2/NCB guy.

As for your "theory" of knowing what Dorsey wants, you're missing almost the entirety of the picture here.

Dorsey, doesn't run a Press Man defensive Scheme. He's got basically ZERO input as far as changing schemes from a press man hybrid 3-4 front playing 50% Nickle/Dime, than say, Playing solid Tampa 2.

Dorsey's job isn't to scheme, it isn't to call plays, its none of that. His job is to keep us under the cap with deals as team friendly as possible, while bringing in "THE BEST" talent we can possibly afford, all the while keeping a future eye on talent and delivering a list of names to Reid for him to put his input on, prior to the draft. Then its Dorsey's job to take this slimmed down list of guys, and put it next to his "BPA" list, and if the moment suits him, draft one or two of those guys, or trade up/down and wheel and deal.

He doesn't draft guys of a specific mold, indefinitely, thats not how good GM's work (Pioli). Good GM's, the truly magnificent kind, merely "assist" in the personnel management of talent discovery, and let their Coaches do most of the final evaluations prior to drafting, because its THEIR schemes that these players need to fit.

Flowers, in Green Bay, would have been a solid fit under Dorsey, or even now. Flowers here, however, was a very, very bad fit. Don't get me wrong, he could play it above average, but he's not suited for the scheme, and we let him go.

Simple shit like that amazes me with how many people overthink the "Dorsey" string pulling.

Exoter175
10-16-2014, 08:47 PM
Two things to add to this:

1. Dorsey has effectively replaced Belcher with Akeem Jordan who was very solid last year, and now Joe Mays, who looked great when he was healthy. We'll see how he plays when he returns. Even Mauga looks alright -- it's honestly the least important position on the defense, since the Chiefs player nickel and dime so much.

2. As a result, the Chiefs need to worry about replacing DJ more than they do Belcher/Jordan/Mays at the SILB position (Mays is under contract for next year anyway). The WILB is very important, and we had one of the game's best manning it for the past five years. And there's some pretty good talent to be had on the 2nd day of the draft.


1. I don't believe for a moment that Dorsey has effectively replaced Belcher. While belcher was a liability in pass coverage, he was a rock solid two down thumper, and we've got all of ZERO of those on this team since his tragic departure. I thought MAYBE Nico would fill that role, but I appear to be very, very wrong about that.

2. There's no day 1 or day 2 talent to compare to DJ, even as a rookie, especially not the Pro Bowler that he turned into. You had Mosley last year, and that's about it until you go back to 2010/2011 or so IIRC. Your only true "chance" at a day 2 talent that comes close to filling those shoes is going to be Eric Kendricks, and that'll take some time.

kccrow
10-16-2014, 10:46 PM
Every year there is a Pro Bowl type linebacker that comes from the first few rounds

2013 - Kiko Alonso
2012 - Luke Kuechly
2011 - Mason Foster is pretty good, so is KJ Wright
2010 - Navorrow Bowman, Daryl Washington (until full idiot), Sean Lee (when healthy)
2009 - James Laurinaitis
etc...

Direckshun
10-17-2014, 12:54 AM
As for your "theory" of knowing what Dorsey wants, you're missing almost the entirety of the picture here.

Dorsey, doesn't run a Press Man defensive Scheme. He's got basically ZERO input as far as changing schemes from a press man hybrid 3-4 front playing 50% Nickle/Dime, than say, Playing solid Tampa 2.

Dorsey's job isn't to scheme, it isn't to call plays, its none of that. His job is to keep us under the cap with deals as team friendly as possible, while bringing in "THE BEST" talent we can possibly afford, all the while keeping a future eye on talent and delivering a list of names to Reid for him to put his input on, prior to the draft. Then its Dorsey's job to take this slimmed down list of guys, and put it next to his "BPA" list, and if the moment suits him, draft one or two of those guys, or trade up/down and wheel and deal.

He doesn't draft guys of a specific mold, indefinitely, thats not how good GM's work (Pioli). Good GM's, the truly magnificent kind, merely "assist" in the personnel management of talent discovery, and let their Coaches do most of the final evaluations prior to drafting, because its THEIR schemes that these players need to fit.

Flowers, in Green Bay, would have been a solid fit under Dorsey, or even now. Flowers here, however, was a very, very bad fit. Don't get me wrong, he could play it above average, but he's not suited for the scheme, and we let him go.

Simple shit like that amazes me with how many people overthink the "Dorsey" string pulling.

This is plenty of good information, but we're disagreeing on the fundamental issue, here. And I've got Reid's own words to back up my side.

Under normal circumstances, you'd be correct. But everything we've read and Reid himself has said says that Reid (a.) really wanted Alex Smith, and (b.) otherwise has completely divorced himself from personnel. He came to KC and got the GM he wanted so that Reid could totally commit himself to coaching. In other words, Dorsey has final say in personnel, and takes the personnel that he wants. The roster is full of Dorsey acquisitions, not Reid acquisitions.

That said, you're dead right that Dorsey's not the one determining scheme, but he gets to determine what kind of players he wants fleshing out the scheme. Sutton may vouch for Mike DeVito, and Dorsey may act on that, but Dorsey's the top of the personnel food chain.

But it ultimately sounds like we're agreeing. It ultimately sounds like we're both saying the Chiefs want certain types of players (big-bodied TEs that can block, tall, fast corners, players with phenomenal measurables) and we're just disagreeing who determines that these players become Chiefs. I say Dorsey's pulling the strings, you say Dorsey's mostly following orders. That's fine, but we're ultimately both agreeing that there are "types" that the Chiefs like.

And I'm willing to disagree with you on another point -- most GMs do have "types" of players that they like. The Giants have certain things they like in DL, Patriots in QBs, Steelers in LBs, and so on. That's pretty uncontroversial to say.

Saccopoo
10-17-2014, 01:10 AM
ILB Benardrick McKinney, Mississippi State -- A high tide raises all boats, as they say, and it's natural to assume that the recent groundswell of love for Benardrick McKinney is due to the Bulldogs' ascent to the #1 spot. The problem is, however, I can't remember being less enthused about a player supposedly projected to go somewhere in the top three rounds of the Draft. There's no question he's a very large LB even by NFL standards: 6'5" (!!!), 250 lbs, a truly imposing presence on the field. But I can't pinpoint anything he does that screams "draft me." As you'd probably expect for a guy this size, he's horrid in coverage. The Bulldogs play primarily zone coverage with their 'backers, and McKinney is utterly lost in it, either out of position or (far more frequently) in no man's land. He doesn't eat up space well at all -- he looks like he runs a 4.8 at best -- and he's not remotely a sideline-to-sideline player. Truth be told, he's built to ransack the line of scrimmage, but he's not particularly great there, either. He has good gap integrity, but he frequently gets washed out and struggles to shed blocks. His passrushing is nonexistent, as can be expected for a guy who drops into coverage close to 100% of passing downs, and his tackling is woeful as well. There might be a team somewhere that loves his measurables and think they can turn him into a quality thumper. (It is curious to me that Mississippi State puts a guy his size constantly deep into coverage.) As of now, I'd consider passing on him until deep into the draft.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/wtf/wedding-crashers-wtf.gif

Direckshun
10-17-2014, 01:17 AM
RB Ameer Abdullah, Nebraska -- I watch Abdullah play and I'm not sure where he fits on my roster if I were a GM. The first thing that jumps out about him is his size at 5'9", 190 lbs, which is diminutive by NFL standards, and he doesn't seem to back it up with great speed or elite athleticism or change-of-direction. That doesn't change the fact that Abdullah has great fundamentals as a runner: he's patient in setting up a block, eats up the space his blocking gives him very quickly. He drives through tackles, not frequently breaking them, but always managing to fall forward or even get an additional spring of a couple yards while he goes down. He hits the hole really hard when he's asked to run downhill, but he's obviously not built for it at the next level. He runs decent routes (Nebraska doesn't ask to do much there except for standard wheel routes) and I like him in the role as a third down back in a west coast offense. But that's about his roof in the NFL: he's a change-of-pace guy who can excel as a bit player in an effective offense that doesn't ask him to carry the load. I think he'd be decent value in the midrounds, which is far lower than most other sites have him, but I don't see great value in a small RB who lacks elite athleticism.

Edit (11/18): Watching a ton of film on Abdullah throughout the year, and he is extremely easy to love as a RB. As I mentioned in this analysis, he is an excellent runner in terms of fundamentals, and it'll be great to see how he times and lifts at the Combine. He's not an every-down back, but he can be great in a rotation. I'd put a 3rd round grade on him.

Direckshun
10-17-2014, 01:17 AM
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/wtf/wedding-crashers-wtf.gif

ROFL

Direckshun
10-17-2014, 02:39 AM
WR Kevin White, West Virginia -- Wow, is this guy fun to watch. There's not a lot of WRs that boast a combination of sophisticated route-running, top-notch athleticism, and ultra-competitiveness that White brings to the table, and it is downright magnetic to watch. I just absolutely love the way he plays, and his total commitment on the football field gives me the feeling that White has the most upside of anybody in this draft. What's going to happen after his rookie season, and he discovers that he's struggling to break free of CBs on button hook routes? That guy's going to kill himself over the spring mastering button hook routes, that's what. White is a very long 6'3", 210 lbs, and possesses what looks like 4.3 speed coming out of his breaks. His route-running is full of all those subtle moves you need to separate and beat a corner to the pylon. He can be absolutely lethal on crossing routes, something WVU actually employs similarly to how the Chiefs use them. And his runblocking -- oh, his runblocking. He plays pissed off, and that runblocking is a direct extension of that. The one knock I have on White is minor, and it's that he doesn't always play as big as he could, but part of that is because the Mountaineers never really launch that many jump balls for him. And besides, you know he's got the on-field drive to work on any and all weaknesses. The Chiefs need to take an extremely hard look at this kid in the 1st.

Direckshun
10-17-2014, 10:09 AM
RB Mike Davis, South Carolina -- There is something that is so enjoyable about a thick, squatty (5'9", 215 lbs) RB who can leverage his short frame into consistent 5- and 6-yard bursts every down. Not only is it a critical contribution to the offense, it's also just a sterling example of one player doing the small things well so that the teammates around him can flourish. That's one of the reason Maurice Jones-Drew was so lethal for so many years, and while Davis lacks MJD's pure power and pull-away speed, he does boast that same ability to make himself small, work through the cracks in the line, and refuse to let a stray arm or a poorly-squared hit knock him off his feet. Really, Davis' balance is extraordinary, and is why I think he's going to be a solid lunchpail three-down back in the NFL. His change of direction is excellent, and I think he would really flourish in a one-cut zone blocking system that asks him to pick his own hole and go. Not only that, but he's got really good hands in the open field, and is a reliable safety valve for QBs. With some fine-tuning, I think he has 20-carry potential in the NFL, and can possibly have a very underrated career keeping the offense on the field by reliably gaining good yardage.

Post-Combine (2/24): Just not athletic enough to be a true 20-carry back. He's got the body for the workload, so I think he could be valuable in a committee, but he doesn't have the chops to be a franchise-back. Feel like he's a midrounder at this point.

Exoter175
10-17-2014, 06:15 PM
Every year there is a Pro Bowl type linebacker that comes from the first few rounds

2013 - Kiko Alonso
2012 - Luke Kuechly
2011 - Mason Foster is pretty good, so is KJ Wright
2010 - Navorrow Bowman, Daryl Washington (until full idiot), Sean Lee (when healthy)
2009 - James Laurinaitis
etc...

Kiko, James, KJ, Foster, and Sean, not pro bowlers. NaVorro, Daryl, and Luke, sure. NaVorro and Daryl are more thumpers though, Luke is a god damned GEM. And we lost a gem this season, and possibly for the future. Which is exactly why we need to FIND that gem instead of signing "stop gap" free agents like Mays and Mauga. Signing Free Agents NEVER adds value to the future of this organization when you use them as stop gaps.

OldSchool
10-17-2014, 06:33 PM
Luke is vastly overrated. He absolutely sucks this year and is a big part of the reason why the Panthers' run defense is looking like shit this year, ranked 27th in the league.

Exoter175
10-17-2014, 06:43 PM
This is plenty of good information, but we're disagreeing on the fundamental issue, here. And I've got Reid's own words to back up my side.

Under normal circumstances, you'd be correct. But everything we've read and Reid himself has said says that Reid (a.) really wanted Alex Smith, and (b.) otherwise has completely divorced himself from personnel. He came to KC and got the GM he wanted so that Reid could totally commit himself to coaching. In other words, Dorsey has final say in personnel, and takes the personnel that he wants. The roster is full of Dorsey acquisitions, not Reid acquisitions.

That said, you're dead right that Dorsey's not the one determining scheme, but he gets to determine what kind of players he wants fleshing out the scheme. Sutton may vouch for Mike DeVito, and Dorsey may act on that, but Dorsey's the top of the personnel food chain.

But it ultimately sounds like we're agreeing. It ultimately sounds like we're both saying the Chiefs want certain types of players (big-bodied TEs that can block, tall, fast corners, players with phenomenal measurables) and we're just disagreeing who determines that these players become Chiefs. I say Dorsey's pulling the strings, you say Dorsey's mostly following orders. That's fine, but we're ultimately both agreeing that there are "types" that the Chiefs like.

And I'm willing to disagree with you on another point -- most GMs do have "types" of players that they like. The Giants have certain things they like in DL, Patriots in QBs, Steelers in LBs, and so on. That's pretty uncontroversial to say.

No, we certainly are not agreeing because you can't comprehend what I'm saying.

You're assuming that I'm saying Reid is calling the shots, I'm not. You're also assuming that because of the prior assumption, that Dorsey is taking orders, he's not.

It works from the ground up, and someone as intellectual, at least in your penchant for overthinking everything, SHOULD be able to use your powers of deduction to discern the difference between the fine lines of "orders" and "logic".

If Reid and Sutton come in here saying we want to run a West Coast offense and a hybrid between the base 3-4 and the Nickel/Dime defenses, A "smart" GM uses logic to dictate his player selection. You're not going to draft pass rushing Defensive Tackles with slight frames and longer arms. You're not going to draft smaller corners with average speed but with zero strength. Why? Because they just don't FIT the defensive scheme here.

You need big body physical monsters at the DT position to occupy space and eat up double teams so you can get your Outside Linebackers into beatable matchups off the edge, and your inside guys a clear lane to fill when the runner comes up. You want solid tacklers on the edge who play more of a "hybrid" DE role here as they both need to have a quick first step, as well as enough body to leverage the tackles for run support.

This whole defensive "base" scheme we have, is designed in part, to do two things. Give DJ, Berry, +MLB2 open lanes to blow up on running downs, and give Houston/Hali 1 on 1 matchups on the edge on Passing Downs. To do this, you need Poe. He's a fucking manbeast of a DT and EMBODIES every single bit of the position that Reid needs here. If there's ONE guy on this entire defense that truly Anchors the Defense in the mindset that Reid and Sutton want it done, its Poe and Poe above all others. Berry is a FINE piece to have, but any warm body can take his place in the 3-4, they just lack what Berry brings to the table, playmaking ability. Which is sad, because that makes Berry somewhat expendable in Suttons defense, though the mere mentioning of that word "seems" laughable because Berry is ALL WORLD good.

The second part of that, the Nickel/Dime packages that we have, require us to have absolutely stellar physical corners on the outside because the whole goal here is to take away the outside/quick release throws, and force the ball into the center of the defense. We want this to be done because of a few reaons. 1.) It puts the ball carrier right in the middle of the defense where our most prominent tacklers and playmakers are, DJ and Berry. 2.) It keeps the clock moving, ideologically, this is what we want as our plan is to play with a lead and use a very minimal, yet effective pass rush while locking down the secondary. 3.) There are, in all honesty, only 3 passing lanes to work with in the Nickel or Dime with a minimal rush using press-man coverage on the outside. With a disruptive Poe, he's going to neutralize 1 lane about 35-40% of the time, and with Hali, Houston, and Bailey on the edges with only 2 lanes to throw, this makes for "easy pickings" on negative yardage plays as the timing required to "often" make a succesful pass in those two lanes requires our outside corners to lose their receiver to the inside, where we technically want the ball. If they are succesful with their jams, delaying the release of the ball even .5 of a second, the QB will likely see pressure and hurry the throw or step up into the pocket, into Poe. What happens here is a lot of check downs and quick TE outs/screens, limiting the downfield routes. This is literally an ideal scenario for this sytem, the only downfall is that Cooper hasn't yet made the next step in his career and his confidence is shaky. When he's "on" he's honestly probably our best corner. When he's off, he's sabby piscateli bad. Unfortunately, he receives a lot of bad credit for busted plays where he's out of position, because our makeshift safeties aren't communicating well enough and they themselves have been out of position many times. I believe it was New England or Denver game where people blamed Cooper on miscue which turned into a touchdown, when in fact it was the Safety who was out of place and ended up 15 yards on the other side of his zone.


Now, bringing this back into perspective, I bring this up for one main reason. If Dorsey "had" a mold for guys he likes to draft, and he really doesn't as evidenced by his GB and KC drafts, this wouldn't bode well for ANY Coach/Coordinator as they'd be receiving talent not fit for their system, and he'd likely get ran out of town within the first two years, because he's simply not doing his job. You don't just draft talent and plug away, Pioli did that horribly. You (the GM) draft the BEST talent for the SYSTEM you play in. This is exactly why there's the old "talk" about how a New GM brings a new HC, brings a new QB when franchises turnover their staff, and it doesn't happen "just because" or because of "their guy". It happens because something as simple as a new coordinator, brings in a whole different "need' for skillsets.

This team needs BIG physical corners because of the schemes we run. This team needs MONSTER athletes at DT because of the schemes we run. This team needs Sideline to Sideline ILB's because of the schemes we run. This team needs "all around" TE's because of the schemes we run. This team needs physical "big body" receivers because of the schemes we run.

Obviously though, there's room for some exceptions, like Nickel/Dime Corners, and 1 Deep threat/Slot/Burner receiver, and 1 dynamite "3rd down" receiver TE option. Just like this offensive line doesn't need "maulers" for the ideal role Reid wants this scheme working with, though with JC, we kind of need hybrid maulers just because you "work with what you've got" and having JC means we HAVE to run the ball to be effective. If the defense knows JC is only getting a pitch count every game, we're going to lose every stinking time.

Whole point here, to reiterate again, is that Dorsey drafts to the scheme, rather well. He waiver claims/signs to the scheme pretty well too, though in all honesty, he's pretty bad at "stop gap" talent when he has a hole that needs filling via FA.

So seriously, get off this "Dorsey type" bullshit, and start thinking "Scheme type".

Exoter175
10-17-2014, 06:44 PM
Luke is vastly overrated. He absolutely sucks this year and is a big part of the reason why the Panthers' run defense is looking like shit this year, ranked 27th in the league.

I attribute a lot of that to their offense, actually, and the two are mutual and go hand in hand.

OldSchool
10-17-2014, 07:00 PM
I attribute a lot of that to their offense, actually, and the two are mutual and go hand in hand.

His offense makes him fill the wrong gap, make the wrong read, over-pursue, and just miss tackles that you would expect any good ILB, much less one who was voted DPOY, to make? It's one thing if this happens once in a while to a linebacker, but it has happened in virtually every game that I've watched the Panthers play this year.

O.city
10-17-2014, 07:16 PM
No, we certainly are not agreeing because you can't comprehend what I'm saying.

You're assuming that I'm saying Reid is calling the shots, I'm not. You're also assuming that because of the prior assumption, that Dorsey is taking orders, he's not.

It works from the ground up, and someone as intellectual, at least in your penchant for overthinking everything, SHOULD be able to use your powers of deduction to discern the difference between the fine lines of "orders" and "logic".

If Reid and Sutton come in here saying we want to run a West Coast offense and a hybrid between the base 3-4 and the Nickel/Dime defenses, A "smart" GM uses logic to dictate his player selection. You're not going to draft pass rushing Defensive Tackles with slight frames and longer arms. You're not going to draft smaller corners with average speed but with zero strength. Why? Because they just don't FIT the defensive scheme here.

You need big body physical monsters at the DT position to occupy space and eat up double teams so you can get your Outside Linebackers into beatable matchups off the edge, and your inside guys a clear lane to fill when the runner comes up. You want solid tacklers on the edge who play more of a "hybrid" DE role here as they both need to have a quick first step, as well as enough body to leverage the tackles for run support.

This whole defensive "base" scheme we have, is designed in part, to do two things. Give DJ, Berry, +MLB2 open lanes to blow up on running downs, and give Houston/Hali 1 on 1 matchups on the edge on Passing Downs. To do this, you need Poe. He's a ****ing manbeast of a DT and EMBODIES every single bit of the position that Reid needs here. If there's ONE guy on this entire defense that truly Anchors the Defense in the mindset that Reid and Sutton want it done, its Poe and Poe above all others. Berry is a FINE piece to have, but any warm body can take his place in the 3-4, they just lack what Berry brings to the table, playmaking ability. Which is sad, because that makes Berry somewhat expendable in Suttons defense, though the mere mentioning of that word "seems" laughable because Berry is ALL WORLD good.

The second part of that, the Nickel/Dime packages that we have, require us to have absolutely stellar physical corners on the outside because the whole goal here is to take away the outside/quick release throws, and force the ball into the center of the defense. We want this to be done because of a few reaons. 1.) It puts the ball carrier right in the middle of the defense where our most prominent tacklers and playmakers are, DJ and Berry. 2.) It keeps the clock moving, ideologically, this is what we want as our plan is to play with a lead and use a very minimal, yet effective pass rush while locking down the secondary. 3.) There are, in all honesty, only 3 passing lanes to work with in the Nickel or Dime with a minimal rush using press-man coverage on the outside. With a disruptive Poe, he's going to neutralize 1 lane about 35-40% of the time, and with Hali, Houston, and Bailey on the edges with only 2 lanes to throw, this makes for "easy pickings" on negative yardage plays as the timing required to "often" make a succesful pass in those two lanes requires our outside corners to lose their receiver to the inside, where we technically want the ball. If they are succesful with their jams, delaying the release of the ball even .5 of a second, the QB will likely see pressure and hurry the throw or step up into the pocket, into Poe. What happens here is a lot of check downs and quick TE outs/screens, limiting the downfield routes. This is literally an ideal scenario for this sytem, the only downfall is that Cooper hasn't yet made the next step in his career and his confidence is shaky. When he's "on" he's honestly probably our best corner. When he's off, he's sabby piscateli bad. Unfortunately, he receives a lot of bad credit for busted plays where he's out of position, because our makeshift safeties aren't communicating well enough and they themselves have been out of position many times. I believe it was New England or Denver game where people blamed Cooper on miscue which turned into a touchdown, when in fact it was the Safety who was out of place and ended up 15 yards on the other side of his zone.


Now, bringing this back into perspective, I bring this up for one main reason. If Dorsey "had" a mold for guys he likes to draft, and he really doesn't as evidenced by his GB and KC drafts, this wouldn't bode well for ANY Coach/Coordinator as they'd be receiving talent not fit for their system, and he'd likely get ran out of town within the first two years, because he's simply not doing his job. You don't just draft talent and plug away, Pioli did that horribly. You (the GM) draft the BEST talent for the SYSTEM you play in. This is exactly why there's the old "talk" about how a New GM brings a new HC, brings a new QB when franchises turnover their staff, and it doesn't happen "just because" or because of "their guy". It happens because something as simple as a new coordinator, brings in a whole different "need' for skillsets.

This team needs BIG physical corners because of the schemes we run. This team needs MONSTER athletes at DT because of the schemes we run. This team needs Sideline to Sideline ILB's because of the schemes we run. This team needs "all around" TE's because of the schemes we run. This team needs physical "big body" receivers because of the schemes we run.

Obviously though, there's room for some exceptions, like Nickel/Dime Corners, and 1 Deep threat/Slot/Burner receiver, and 1 dynamite "3rd down" receiver TE option. Just like this offensive line doesn't need "maulers" for the ideal role Reid wants this scheme working with, though with JC, we kind of need hybrid maulers just because you "work with what you've got" and having JC means we HAVE to run the ball to be effective. If the defense knows JC is only getting a pitch count every game, we're going to lose every stinking time.

Whole point here, to reiterate again, is that Dorsey drafts to the scheme, rather well. He waiver claims/signs to the scheme pretty well too, though in all honesty, he's pretty bad at "stop gap" talent when he has a hole that needs filling via FA.

So seriously, get off this "Dorsey type" bullshit, and start thinking "Scheme type".

This is literally the biggest bunch of shit I've read here and I feel dumber after reading it.

Scheme fit isn't Dorset fit? Dorset picked the scheme. Dorset also didn't draft in green bay

Direckshun
10-17-2014, 08:13 PM
No, we certainly are not agreeing because you can't comprehend what I'm saying.

You're assuming that I'm saying Reid is calling the shots, I'm not. You're also assuming that because of the prior assumption, that Dorsey is taking orders, he's not.

It works from the ground up, and someone as intellectual, at least in your penchant for overthinking everything, SHOULD be able to use your powers of deduction to discern the difference between the fine lines of "orders" and "logic".

If Reid and Sutton come in here saying we want to run a West Coast offense and a hybrid between the base 3-4 and the Nickel/Dime defenses, A "smart" GM uses logic to dictate his player selection. You're not going to draft pass rushing Defensive Tackles with slight frames and longer arms. You're not going to draft smaller corners with average speed but with zero strength. Why? Because they just don't FIT the defensive scheme here.

You need big body physical monsters at the DT position to occupy space and eat up double teams so you can get your Outside Linebackers into beatable matchups off the edge, and your inside guys a clear lane to fill when the runner comes up. You want solid tacklers on the edge who play more of a "hybrid" DE role here as they both need to have a quick first step, as well as enough body to leverage the tackles for run support.

This whole defensive "base" scheme we have, is designed in part, to do two things. Give DJ, Berry, +MLB2 open lanes to blow up on running downs, and give Houston/Hali 1 on 1 matchups on the edge on Passing Downs. To do this, you need Poe. He's a ****ing manbeast of a DT and EMBODIES every single bit of the position that Reid needs here. If there's ONE guy on this entire defense that truly Anchors the Defense in the mindset that Reid and Sutton want it done, its Poe and Poe above all others. Berry is a FINE piece to have, but any warm body can take his place in the 3-4, they just lack what Berry brings to the table, playmaking ability. Which is sad, because that makes Berry somewhat expendable in Suttons defense, though the mere mentioning of that word "seems" laughable because Berry is ALL WORLD good.

The second part of that, the Nickel/Dime packages that we have, require us to have absolutely stellar physical corners on the outside because the whole goal here is to take away the outside/quick release throws, and force the ball into the center of the defense. We want this to be done because of a few reaons. 1.) It puts the ball carrier right in the middle of the defense where our most prominent tacklers and playmakers are, DJ and Berry. 2.) It keeps the clock moving, ideologically, this is what we want as our plan is to play with a lead and use a very minimal, yet effective pass rush while locking down the secondary. 3.) There are, in all honesty, only 3 passing lanes to work with in the Nickel or Dime with a minimal rush using press-man coverage on the outside. With a disruptive Poe, he's going to neutralize 1 lane about 35-40% of the time, and with Hali, Houston, and Bailey on the edges with only 2 lanes to throw, this makes for "easy pickings" on negative yardage plays as the timing required to "often" make a succesful pass in those two lanes requires our outside corners to lose their receiver to the inside, where we technically want the ball. If they are succesful with their jams, delaying the release of the ball even .5 of a second, the QB will likely see pressure and hurry the throw or step up into the pocket, into Poe. What happens here is a lot of check downs and quick TE outs/screens, limiting the downfield routes. This is literally an ideal scenario for this sytem, the only downfall is that Cooper hasn't yet made the next step in his career and his confidence is shaky. When he's "on" he's honestly probably our best corner. When he's off, he's sabby piscateli bad. Unfortunately, he receives a lot of bad credit for busted plays where he's out of position, because our makeshift safeties aren't communicating well enough and they themselves have been out of position many times. I believe it was New England or Denver game where people blamed Cooper on miscue which turned into a touchdown, when in fact it was the Safety who was out of place and ended up 15 yards on the other side of his zone.


Now, bringing this back into perspective, I bring this up for one main reason. If Dorsey "had" a mold for guys he likes to draft, and he really doesn't as evidenced by his GB and KC drafts, this wouldn't bode well for ANY Coach/Coordinator as they'd be receiving talent not fit for their system, and he'd likely get ran out of town within the first two years, because he's simply not doing his job. You don't just draft talent and plug away, Pioli did that horribly. You (the GM) draft the BEST talent for the SYSTEM you play in. This is exactly why there's the old "talk" about how a New GM brings a new HC, brings a new QB when franchises turnover their staff, and it doesn't happen "just because" or because of "their guy". It happens because something as simple as a new coordinator, brings in a whole different "need' for skillsets.

This team needs BIG physical corners because of the schemes we run. This team needs MONSTER athletes at DT because of the schemes we run. This team needs Sideline to Sideline ILB's because of the schemes we run. This team needs "all around" TE's because of the schemes we run. This team needs physical "big body" receivers because of the schemes we run.

Obviously though, there's room for some exceptions, like Nickel/Dime Corners, and 1 Deep threat/Slot/Burner receiver, and 1 dynamite "3rd down" receiver TE option. Just like this offensive line doesn't need "maulers" for the ideal role Reid wants this scheme working with, though with JC, we kind of need hybrid maulers just because you "work with what you've got" and having JC means we HAVE to run the ball to be effective. If the defense knows JC is only getting a pitch count every game, we're going to lose every stinking time.

Whole point here, to reiterate again, is that Dorsey drafts to the scheme, rather well. He waiver claims/signs to the scheme pretty well too, though in all honesty, he's pretty bad at "stop gap" talent when he has a hole that needs filling via FA.

So seriously, get off this "Dorsey type" bullshit, and start thinking "Scheme type".

I don't disagree with any of this. Good post.

It honestly sounds like when I'm saying "Dorsey type" anyway, it means the same thing as when you're saying "scheme type." We're both saying the same thing with a different adjective. I'm fairly certain it's that simple.

Direckshun
10-17-2014, 08:15 PM
This is literally the biggest bunch of shit I've read here and I feel dumber after reading it.

Scheme fit isn't Dorset fit? Dorset picked the scheme. Dorset also didn't draft in green bay

This is about right.

I think they're one in the same.

kccrow
10-17-2014, 08:26 PM
Correct me if I missed reading these already Direckshun...

Interested in takes on:

OT Tyler Sambrailo - Colorado State (I see him as an excellent OG prospect)
WR Stefon Diggs - Maryland (Potential game breaker)
DE Anthony Chickillo - Miami (Thinking later round guy that you bulk up like Bailey. He's 277 now)

Direckshun
10-17-2014, 08:31 PM
I've mocked Sambrailo and Chickillo to the Chiefs in previous mocks, and I like Diggs a lot. I've been interested in all three players. Sambrailo and Diggs should be coming within the next week.

You think Sambrailo is more of a guard prospect?

OldSchool
10-17-2014, 09:44 PM
While we're on the subject of offensive tackles, check out T.J. Clemmings from Pitt. He only switched to OT a couple of years ago from DE. Super athletic, good length, and great burst in the run game.

He plays RT because of his lack of experience but he moves and looks like an athletic LT.

kccrow
10-17-2014, 10:16 PM
I've mocked Sambrailo and Chickillo to the Chiefs in previous mocks, and I like Diggs a lot. I've been interested in all three players. Sambrailo and Diggs should be coming within the next week.

You think Sambrailo is more of a guard prospect?




Yes... I see this "light on his feet" shit written all the time and I don't see it at all. He's a bit heavy on his feet if you ask me. He's a bit of a lunger against speed. I think NFL caliber speed rushers will make his head spin. He might function as a right tackle, but I'd be worried a bunch about his strength out the gate as a right tackle. I think he'd be best used inside where some of his flaws can be greatly masked.

I think if you talk about a guy that is an elite reach and seal run blocker, then look no further. He also functions adequately in space, although I'd like to see more lock-on type open field blocking than lunging and getting in the way. Ask Jon Asamoah how well that shit works in the NFL... He's solid in pass pro, especially against slower opponents and he has a very quick punch. To me his skill set screams guard. If I had to prognosticate right now, I'd say he'd be an Pro-Bowl level guard and a serviceable-at-best tackle.

Direckshun
10-18-2014, 03:31 AM
OG A.J. Cann, South Carolina -- Cann is built like a tree trunk and offers you exactly the type of skillset you'd expect from that. Cann stands at 6'3", 318 lbs, but his thick bottom half and beefy arms make him look about 330. That translates, when used, into a whole lot of downhill blocking power. Cann is at his absolute best when he gets to unload into a defense tackle in the run game and move him off the ball. The more your offense does that, the better suited Cann will be. His frame is utterly constructed for that, but isn't as well built for agility -- he's okay when he pulls, but he can struggle in space at the second level trying to track down defensive backs. He is at his best against big, powerful nose tackles that play to his strength, but he can totally miss on athletic three-techniques who show great burst off the line. He looks like he runs a 5.5, honestly, but is surprisingly good in pass protection against DTs. He can take a good punch from a DT, recover, and stymie most rushes in their tracks. Occasionally someone can get around him, but trying to bullrush Cann is a fool's errand. He's not an elite talent, but as a really solid passblocker and powerful road grader, I'd think him worth a midrounder for a likeminded team. I'd put him at a 3rd-4th rounder.

Direckshun
10-18-2014, 05:09 AM
Pretty weird to me that A.J. Cann's been projected as a 1st round pick in some circles. He just doesn't seem athletic enough to warrant that kind of consideration.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/9/17/6290617/nfl-draft-report-south-carolinas-a-j-cann-looking-like-a-1st-rounder

Exoter175
10-19-2014, 09:39 AM
This is literally the biggest bunch of shit I've read here and I feel dumber after reading it.

Scheme fit isn't Dorset fit? Dorset picked the scheme. Dorset also didn't draft in green bay

You just called that the biggest bunch of shit you've read, and yet you think that Dorsey picks the schemes?

The schemes come down to coordinators/Coaches, not the GM. While one could say that he brought in Reid "knowing" the scheme, he chose Reid because he's a winning, solid "coach em up" type of coach who was without a doubt the best option available to us. Reid runs the game but has a huge hand in the Offensive playcalling/coordination. Sutton almost entirely controls that defense. Dorsey has NOTHING to do with the scheme.

And to say Dorsey didn't draft for the Packers, really? REALLY? :hmmm:

This is about right.

I think they're one in the same.

From your side, it'll seem like semantics because you believe Dorsey has a type and only goes for that type, and that's incorrect. On the other hand, Dorsey HAS been drafting to the Reid/Sutton scheme, so he's taking his guys, who fit those schemes.

Point here is, you can't just rule a guy as a Dorsey Fit or not a Dorsey fit, because they also have to fit Reid/Sutton.

Further, you MUST, and I emphasize must here, acknowledge the fact that ZERO GM's out there worth their weight, draft solely for the talent they desire, regardless of the scheme and system. You simply wouldn't last, as a GM.

Exoter175
10-19-2014, 09:41 AM
Pretty weird to me that A.J. Cann's been projected as a 1st round pick in some circles. He just doesn't seem athletic enough to warrant that kind of consideration.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/9/17/6290617/nfl-draft-report-south-carolinas-a-j-cann-looking-like-a-1st-rounder

Isn't he like 6 foot 350 lbs? lol

O.city
10-19-2014, 11:26 AM
Dorset is the gm, he picks the coordinators, so by asssociation, he picks the schemes

Direckshun
10-19-2014, 11:40 AM
From your side, it'll seem like semantics because you believe Dorsey has a type and only goes for that type, and that's incorrect. On the other hand, Dorsey HAS been drafting to the Reid/Sutton scheme, so he's taking his guys, who fit those schemes.

Point here is, you can't just rule a guy as a Dorsey Fit or not a Dorsey fit, because they also have to fit Reid/Sutton.

Further, you MUST, and I emphasize must here, acknowledge the fact that ZERO GM's out there worth their weight, draft solely for the talent they desire, regardless of the scheme and system. You simply wouldn't last, as a GM.

I wouldn't last as a GM for a dozen reasons, but my opinion on how John Dorsey drafts probably wouldn't be one of them.

Direckshun
10-19-2014, 11:41 AM
Isn't he like 6 foot 350 lbs? lol

He's LISTED at 6'3", 320 lbs. But he looks much bigger.

OldSchool
10-19-2014, 12:16 PM
Dorset is the gm, he picks the coordinators, so by asssociation, he picks the schemes

Pretty sure that Reid is the one who gets to pick his own coordinators.

Exoter175
10-19-2014, 06:36 PM
Dorset is the gm, he picks the coordinators, so by asssociation, he picks the schemes

No, Dorsey gets to pick his Head Coach, and the Head Coach gets to pick his coordinators, coaches, and coaching assistants. Dorsey gets to choose "essential personnel" like Assistant GM's, Scouts, HC's, and that's about it. President overrides GM, Owner overrides all.

I wouldn't last as a GM for a dozen reasons, but my opinion on how John Dorsey drafts probably wouldn't be one of them.

As long as your opinion is that John Dorsey drafts for the SYSTEM and not to some predetermined size and metrics, then you would be correct. Also the "you wouldn't last as a GM" hypothetical wasn't a knock on you, it was actually in reference to a hypothetical GM drafting "mold" players that don't fit his system.

He's LISTED at 6'3", 320 lbs. But he looks much bigger.

Rounder, I didn't think he was that tall though lol.
Pretty sure that Reid is the one who gets to pick his own coordinators.

Exaaaaaactly.

OldSchool
10-20-2014, 09:04 AM
On another note, what do you guys think of Eric Striker from OU?

I think he has the potential and athleticism to kick inside and play a bit like Daryl Washington did for Zona.

Direckshun
10-21-2014, 02:50 PM
OT Ereck Flowers, Miami -- Flowers is nobody's idea of a phenomenal athlete, but I really grew to appreciate Flowers' play the more I watched him. Flowers is an ideally-sized 6'6", 324 lbs, but has the LOOK of a plodder. Has the LOOK of slow feet. Doesn't LOOK like the nimble tackle that teams will put on their blind side. And I emphasize "look" here, because despite disappointing the eye test, Flowers' work on the field speaks for itself. Miami recently played Randy Gregory and the ferocious Cornhusker defense, and while Miami's offensive line crumbled in the face of pressure everywhere, I didn't see Flowers give up a single pressure -- even in the 8-10 snaps or so singled up against Top Three prospect Randy Gregory, a player 80 pounds lighter and far more athletic. Every adjective you could attach to Flowers' play should have the hypenated "-but-effective" suffix attached. His kickslide? Heavy, but effective. His runblocking in space? Stilted, but effective. The Hurricanes never put him out in space, and he's nobody's idea of a mauler, but he effectively isolates his player out of the play nearly every time. I remember watching a very physically large tackle who didn't play with great athleticism but was very reliable on the blind side last year, Antonio Richardson. Every team in the NFL passed on him, and he became a UDFA. I really hope that doesn't happen to Flowers, who may not even come out this year. Because teams are stupidly dogmatic about their personnel decisions, Flowers will probably end up a RT prospect, but I legitimately do think he has LT upside, and I'd take a hard look at him on the second day of the draft.

Halfcan
10-21-2014, 03:21 PM
Let's start out with the obvious one:

QB Marcus Mariota, Oregon -- Football Outsiders' own football Bible summarizes the chances of an early round QB panning out thusly: the more games they've started, and the higher their career completion percentage, the better chance they're going to work out. By this measure alone, Mariota's almost certainly the best prospect we've seen in this league since Andrew Luck, and he's probably on par with RG3 as the fourth-best QB prospect we've seen in the last ten years (behind, in order: Luck, Eli, and Stafford). But the tape is what really elevates Mariota: he is truly a QB of the league's future. As more and more teams ape Chip Kelly's hurry up offense, Mariota comes tailor-made for that system. His decision making is precise and quick, his release is fast. He's super athletic (I'm guessing a 40 in the low 4.5s), and he's built sturdy at 6'4", 218 lbs. His arm can make any throw, and is always accurate. The comparison you'll hear all draft season is Colin Kaepernick, but even that sells Mariota short, as Mariota's ability to read defenses gives him a higher ceiling. He will be the #1 overall selection.

Trade entire draft for this kid and fill in the team needs through Free Agency.

Sound crazy-yes it does- but looking back, would you have done it for Luck or Peyton? The kid will be a star. Yes that plan failed with RG3-but Mariota has a much higher ceiling. He is the only one in the draft that changes this teams destiny for the next 15 years. It will Never happen-but fun to dream.

RunKC
10-21-2014, 04:08 PM
Get a FA WR, draft La'El Collins rd 1 and draft a WR rd 2.

You don't think a quality G won't help? Look at Dallas, SF, CIN and SEA using high picks on one and the results they are getting.

The offense has solid weapons for the most part. The timing is being messed up due to pressure.

Sweet Daddy Hate
10-21-2014, 06:50 PM
Trade entire draft for this kid and fill in the team needs through Free Agency.

Sound crazy-yes it does- but looking back, would you have done it for Luck or Peyton? The kid will be a star. Yes that plan failed with RG3-but Mariota has a much higher ceiling. He is the only one in the draft that changes this teams destiny for the next 15 years. It will Never happen-but fun to dream.

I agree( of course ), but our commitment to "7/9 and hope for the best" will put us too far out.

Welcome to sweet, sweet Purgatory, where the only Groundhog Day Chiefs fans get is linemen. LOTS of linemen.

jonzie04
10-21-2014, 07:48 PM
watching some game videos on draft breakdown. and i want shaq thompson bad. i think he could be a killer ilb. guy is very instinctual, very good in coverage, hes really fast and covers a lot of ground quickly. he is little undersized but hes incredibly physical, and agressive. the guy can lay the wood.. i think if ilb doesnt work out he could be a special box safety in a role similar to berry and abdullahs.

Direckshun
10-21-2014, 10:06 PM
My only real issue with Thompson is that he doesn't look terribly natural shedding blocks, which is necessary far more as a 3-4 ILB than it is as a 4-3 OLB, where I think he's the best fit.

He's a VERY good prospect, though. He has a high floor, and I think he has Pro Bowl potential if he fine tunes some of his weaknesses.

Direckshun
10-22-2014, 03:04 AM
RB T.J. Yeldon, Alabama -- Yeldon is in the unfortunate spot of being yet another super talented RB out of Alabama when the two of the three guys immediately before him fitting that exact description have busted terribly in the NFL. Eddie Lacey has a prayer of turning that around, and maybe teams will value Yeldon on his own merits, but that does cause me pause. Yeldon is a bit of a tweener -- he's not quite a speedback, not quite a power back. But he is dynamite in a one-cut zone blocking scheme. Running behind an OL blocking downhill, he can locate the best hole, get really skinny to squeeze through it (no easy task for a 6'2", 220 lb RB), and accelerate quickly to the next level. He doesn't have elite change of direction, but his ability to pick a hole and consistently gain decent yardage will land him on a team somewhere interested in giving him 15-20 touches a game. Yeldon will need considerable work blocking and in the passing game, but he's already plenty NFL-ready in the parts of the game most difficult to teach -- working with blockers, picking the right hole, and burrowing forward for the extra yardage. His long frame means that this 220 lbs aren't anchored in powerful legs, but he does possess a graceful stride which can eat up real estate in a hurry. There are some first-round rumblings with Yeldon, but he seems like a RB-by-committee back who will need refinement if he ever becomes "the guy," and I'd wait until the 2nd day of the draft before considering an investment there.

Halfcan
10-22-2014, 03:04 PM
I agree( of course ), but our commitment to "7/9 and hope for the best" will put us too far out.

Welcome to sweet, sweet Purgatory, where the only Groundhog Day Chiefs fans get is linemen. LOTS of linemen.

LMAO Great movie. Being a Chiefs fan is kinda like that-we have seen this season so many times before. When we get the number one-we draft Fisher-lol :doh!: That is going to hurt for many years.

Sweet Daddy Hate
10-22-2014, 06:39 PM
LMAO Great movie. Being a Chiefs fan is kinda like that-we have seen this season so many times before. When we get the number one-we draft Fisher-lol :doh!: That is going to hurt for many years.

All I know is this:

If the Chiefs keep treating the QB position like "kicker" in the fucking draft; they will go absolutely nowhere in life.

But, most people outside of CP are happy with "good football". Just be competitive, don't be a complete embarrassment, and try to squeeeeeeze in to the play offs any way you can.( Back that ass up Herm-style, it's okay!)

And then they set great, life-altering benchmarks like, "JUUUUHST WIN A PLAAAAYOFF GAAAAAAAAME, MAN"!

fmr with that shit.

I hope the Royals win the series. Kansas City sports culture desperately needs a "winning attitude"-enema.

Direckshun
10-23-2014, 02:41 AM
DE/OLB Bronson Kaufusi, BYU -- Fewer players in this draft (or any draft) have given me more to think about than Kaufusi, a 6'7", 263 lbs standing passrusher out of BYU. There is film I've seen of his that is so horribly terrible that I don't know what there is to like -- he gets blocked out of run plays routinely, he struggles to read where the ball is, his first step is slow and his passrush moves limited, he looks Hali-esque uncomfortable in coverage, he's from BYU so he's probably 26 years old or whatever, and so on. But then, once BYU gets a lead, and the opposing team has to drop back to pass to stay in the game, you see it. In obvious passing situations, Kaufusi has beast potential. He can beat tackles around the edge, he can stunt up the middle, he has long arms that get into OL before they get into him, and he can even manipulate a couple moves to penetrate the pocket, becoming a true disruptor. I've thought a lot about him since the season began, and I honestly think he's a very talented player who just needs the game broken down for him better. When the game stays simple, i.e. obvious passing down, Kaufusi can punish offenses. Coaching can go a long way here. Kaufusi is also a tweener: he spends almost 100% of his plays standing up, but with his huge frame and lack of open-space athleticism, he looks like a 4-3 DE -- either way, lots of work will need to be done. With a great coaching staff, however, that can channel his game, there is potential for a passrusher that is primarily asked to play at the LOS, and not drop from it into coverage.

Direckshun
10-24-2014, 03:59 AM
OLB Lorenzo Mauldin, Louisville -- Draft season is made for prospects like Lorenzo Mauldin, a guy that is flying under most people's radars but will probably see his stock skyrocket as a great prospect at rushbacker as soon as everybody is being compared side-by-side. Teammate of 2nd rounder Marcus Smith's last year, Maudlin draws a lot of the same comparisons to me. He is a physical specimen -- he's listed at 6'4", 250 lbs, and looks every pound of that and more. He sports a frame that is long and powerful, with more room on his frame. He's got fantastic closing speed -- watching him burst through an OL on a stunt is a genuine pleasure -- and hits like a truck. He already has a small number of effective passrushing moves, one of which is an awesome swim move. Maudlin is a pure 3-4 OLB, having played that exact position with the Cardinals, but relies a little too much on his great athleticism for my liking. As a result, despite his good effort, he's very weak against the run and struggles in tackling. A couple seasons of technique work and strength/conditioning will help him stack and shed better, which would only be yet another feather in his cap. I really think Maudlin has double-digit sack possibilities in the NFL, and could sneak into the 1st in the NFL Draft.

Direckshun
10-24-2014, 04:06 AM
OT Cameron Erving, Florida State -- Last year I went through several of the top tier offensive linemen, and Erving was one of them. He did not come out last year, and has had his ups and downs since. I still think he's got 1st round potential, but I think he's closer to going in the bottom of the 1st than near the top.

Here's what I said about him a year ago:

I think Cameron Erving has all the potential in the world, and if you've got absolute faith in your coaching staff, you take a shot on this guy.

He's just a really special awesome athlete for a guy his size (6'6", 310). He doesn't quite have Eric Fisher's fluid movement but I'd put him on par with Brandon Albert. It really wouldn't surprise me if Erving blew up into a Top 10 pick after the Combine. He looks like a perfect zone-blocking tackle.

That's his greatest strength and perhaps his greatest weakness? I don't know, he doesn't seem to explode in the blocking game like some of the other dudes do on this list. He blocks effectively against inferior competition, but it'll be interesting to see how he handles the bigger, stronger DL in the NFL, primarily when he's playing 3-4 defenses.

He's fast enough to handle the edge, but he'll give it up from time to time for a pretty simple reason: his kickslide. I think Erving has a pathetic kickslide, but I can't imagine that could be that hard to coach up, is it? His kickslide looks like he has two thick rubber bands holding his feet together, and it's a really odd contrast to compare that to how well he moves all over the field.

It's reported that Erving has great strength, but I don't see it anything above average there. He can hang with smaller defenders, and block them effectively, but he doesn't get a lot of push in the run game like you'd expect from somebody with his skillset...

My primary fear would be that Erving is a finesse player, and not a grind-it-out player. Which is great in some schemes that require more athleticism than Reid's, but as I've said (and will say) ad nauseum, Reid's scheme prefers bigger and badder. But then again, he's got all the tools. The question is: how much do you trust your coaches. My guess is somebody in the Top 20 picks will trust them enough.

Projection for Erving: As for all of these players, it's too early to project much seeing how the draft is almost half a year away, but whatever. Erving has Top 10 potential if he tests well, and 1st round potential even if he doesn't. He's just too good of an athlete, and too many teams prefer great athletes who need work on technique over technicians who aren't great athletes.

Projected Chiefs interest @ 23: Decently high. Dorsey has shown an affinity for drafting great athletic projects and trusts the Chiefs' coaches, as most teams do. He drafted Fisher, Kelce, Davis, and Commings in the earlier rounds, all players who need significant work from coaches. The problem, however, is that the Chiefs just drafted a super athletic finesse tackle in Fisher, and it's doubtful they want to go that exact route again -- no doubt they'd love a tougher, more powerful guy. But it's possible that with good coaching, Erving could be that guy.

kccrow
10-25-2014, 10:20 PM
Take some notes on Ohio State's Joey Bosa (Sophomore). I'm thinking he'll end up declaring for the 2016 draft. Kid is a beast at defensive end.

Sandy Vagina
10-26-2014, 09:37 AM
Hey Direckshun or other draft nuts..

Know anything about Washington LB Hau'oli Kikaha? Junior LB with plenty of size and impressive stats.

Maybe he could be a good DJ replacement for the future? +/or if KC does move on from Houston or Hali... this guy has the production and skills to be a good rush LB.

so the versatility could be very attractive in the 2nd/3rd rd.. maybe.

Sandy Vagina
11-11-2014, 09:23 AM
Well okay then, lol.


Anyone know much about MLB Steven Daniels from BC ?

https://c.o0bg.com/rf/image_r/Boston/2011-2020/2014/09/06/BostonGlobe.com/Sports/Images/chin090514BCpittfootball_spt1.jpg

Looks like a Junior this year... 6' - 250--ish.
37 tackles, 1 INT, 7 tfl, 1.5 sacks

Very physical in run D and taking on blocks. Has some good blitz ability up the middle.. shows that he can even run with TEs on deep routes. For such a "thumper", BC seems to trust him in coverage.

Not at all sure where his value may end up come draft time.. but just maybe he can be a good option at ILB for Sutton.

RunKC
11-11-2014, 10:10 AM
Looking at Trae Waynes today. If he's there I think we take him. Long, tall and fast like Gaines.
Basically the same type of player as Gaines, which we need more of, especially since Sean Smith has a big contract. Need to be ready to move on from him in a year or two.

I think WR could be had in rd 2 or 3 with how hard it is for rookies to learn it.

OldSchool
11-13-2014, 05:30 PM
An update on Josh Shaw, very instinctive safety/CB prospect out of USC.

Josh Shaw - DB - Trojans
USC redshirt senior CB Josh Shaw discussed his side of the tale/lie that led to two ankle injuries and a suspension from the football team.
It is not the Serial Podcast, but interesting nonetheless. The story begins with Shaw getting into a loud argument with his girlfriend of seven years. The two insist no physical violence occurred. Police were then at the scene of the argument after Shaw's girlfriend left, and to avoid cops Shaw jumped from the second story and was helped to safety by his brother since walking was so painful after hurting both ankles. Shaw then made up a lie about saving his nephew from drowning when talking with USC officials. The officials then released the story, since they knew they would be questioned about Shaw's injuries if he was seen on crutches or in a wheelchair. Shaw was then "in too deep" and did not expect his lie to go public, so he came clean along with USC receiving claims the story was false. The corner has yet to play for the Trojans this season, but head coach Steve Sarkisian has recently left the door open for a possible return.
Source: LA Times Nov 13 - 11:14 AM

OldSchool
11-13-2014, 11:57 PM
Hey Direckshun or other draft nuts..

Know anything about Washington LB Hau'oli Kikaha? Junior LB with plenty of size and impressive stats.

Maybe he could be a good DJ replacement for the future? +/or if KC does move on from Houston or Hali... this guy has the production and skills to be a good rush LB.

so the versatility could be very attractive in the 2nd/3rd rd.. maybe.

Kikaha has a great motor, very strong hands, good hand usage; he is among the best that I've seen this year at stacking the LOS and shedding his blocker, which is why he leads the FBS in sacks. What I don't really see from him is elite speed and athleticism for the position, though I think that he does have just enough of both. I see him as a lighter (he only weighs around 245) version of Tamba Hali. I'd be interested to see how long his arms measure out to be, that'll be a pretty significant factor for me personally; I tend to mark DL/3-4 OLB prospects down if their arms are less than 34" in length.

OldSchool
11-14-2014, 12:13 AM
Since one of our glaring issues is offensive line, I've been looking at a bunch of day 2 to midround options. Really liking TJ Clemmings out of Pitt right now in the 2nd to 3rd round. He's still raw in some areas, namely pass protection, but has a lot going for him.

Great frame and length. He looks like a LT.
Elite athleticism for the position.
He's a mauler in the run game and is very good at the second level, as good as anyone else that I've seen so far this year.
Great motor and plays with a nasty attitude.

Would love to add him to the OL group.

Sandy Vagina
11-14-2014, 07:43 AM
Since one of our glaring issues is offensive line, I've been looking at a bunch of day 2 to midround options. Really liking TJ Clemmings out of Pitt right now in the 2nd to 3rd round. He's still raw in some areas, namely pass protection, but has a lot going for him.

Great frame and length. He looks like a LT.
Elite athleticism for the position.
He's a mauler in the run game and is very good at the second level, as good as anyone else that I've seen so far this year.
Great motor and plays with a nasty attitude.

Would love to add him to the OL group.

Cool. Will definitely keep an eye out now for him, when I catch a Pitt game.

Sandy Vagina
11-14-2014, 07:47 AM
Kikaha has a great motor, very strong hands, good hand usage; he is among the best that I've seen this year at stacking the LOS and shedding his blocker, which is why he leads the FBS in sacks. What I don't really see from him is elite speed and athleticism for the position, though I think that he does have just enough of both. I see him as a lighter (he only weighs around 245) version of Tamba Hali. I'd be interested to see how long his arms measure out to be, that'll be a pretty significant factor for me personally; I tend to mark DL/3-4 OLB prospects down if their arms are less than 34" in length.

Yeah, this is why I was thinking of him as a potential ILB in our 3-4. I know some will regard this as "wasting his best skills" or "square peg/round hole"... but he looks like he could easily adjust into a 3-4 ILB role that can blitz.. cover zones well.. and even add value as an OLB blitzer when needed.

Just a wild thought though.. I haven't watched all that much of him.. just enough to think about that.

RunKC
11-14-2014, 10:33 AM
Looking at the first rd (assuming we draft around 22-24), I think BPA won't be an OL unless La'El Collins falls to us, which is 50/50 IMO.
WR probably won't be either. I fully expect Cooper, White, Parker and maybe Strong to be gone. Funchess will probably be there but idk if I would want him.

I think 3 positions will be strong for us in the later part of rd 1.

1. CB- Alex Carter, possibly one of PJ Williams/Trae Waynes, Ronald Darby
2. ILB-Bernardick McKinney, Eric Kendricks, Denzel Perryman
3. DL-Mario Edwards, maybe Eddie Goldman (leaning towards him being gone) Danny Shelton (this guy will be in the mix after the combine)

Tough choice

O.city
11-14-2014, 10:38 AM
Unless said ILBis of kuechly status, I'd pass in the first. Same with an OG. Corner isn't a bad idea, but a dl would be a first choice of mine.

OldSchool
11-14-2014, 11:52 AM
Unless said ILBis of kuechly status, I'd pass in the first. Same with an OG. Corner isn't a bad idea, but a dl would be a first choice of mine.

What if Kiko Alonso is available? Kendricks may be just as good as him. Would you take him?

OldSchool
11-14-2014, 11:53 AM
Looking at the first rd (assuming we draft around 22-24), I think BPA won't be an OL unless La'El Collins falls to us, which is 50/50 IMO.
WR probably won't be either. I fully expect Cooper, White, Parker and maybe Strong to be gone. Funchess will probably be there but idk if I would want him.

I think 3 positions will be strong for us in the later part of rd 1.

1. CB- Alex Carter, possibly one of PJ Williams/Trae Waynes, Ronald Darby
2. ILB-Bernardick McKinney, Eric Kendricks, Denzel Perryman
3. DL-Mario Edwards, maybe Eddie Goldman (leaning towards him being gone) Danny Shelton (this guy will be in the mix after the combine)

Tough choice
Know what would really suck? BPA might actually be an OLB prospect this year. Will Dorsey go back to back years at that position?

O.city
11-14-2014, 12:07 PM
What if Kiko Alonso is available? Kendricks may be just as good as him. Would you take him?

Maybe. But I'd prefer to take one who can cover and play the run. I don't know a lot about Kendrick's but iirc, there were questions about him in the run game?

And fwiw, Alonso was a 2nd rounder. I think the late first is a great place to take risks on good football players that fall for stupid reasons.

RunKC
11-14-2014, 12:12 PM
Nope. Honestly I don't know how Dorsey wouldn't get a raging mega boner for Alex Carter.
David Shaw said that when Alex Carter arrived to Stanford, at SEVENTEEN YEARS OLD, these were his tested numbers:

6ft tall
200 lbs (dude is stacked for a CB)
10 ft standing broad jump
40 inch vertical leap
4.4 forty
Under 10% body fat

This kid will be a first rd pick. He has experience, confidence, build, and plays to the hip of WR's.

Would love to have him, S. Smith and Gaines as our top 3 guys with Cooper and Flemming as depth.

If we don't take CB, I think DL is the next logical choice.

O.city
11-14-2014, 12:14 PM
I don't know that the wrs will go off the board as quickly as some think

RunKC
11-14-2014, 12:21 PM
Actually, fuck it. Alex Carter will be gone by our pick. Almost a guarantee. Probably better off getting his teammate Wayne Lyons in rd 3.

O.city, it's pretty obvious that White, Cooper and Parker will be gone in the top 20. They will be that popular. Personally, I'd rather see us take Nelson Agholor, Rashad Greene or Stefon Diggs rd 2. They all fit the WCO well.

OldSchool
11-14-2014, 12:35 PM
Actually, **** it. Alex Carter will be gone by our pick. Almost a guarantee. Probably better off getting his teammate Wayne Lyons in rd 3.

O.city, it's pretty obvious that White, Cooper and Parker will be gone in the top 20. They will be that popular. Personally, I'd rather see us take Nelson Agholor, Rashad Greene or Stefon Diggs rd 2. They all fit the WCO well.

I'd take Strong in the 1st. We need more guys who can win in the red zone.

RunKC
11-14-2014, 01:25 PM
Not sure I like Strong that much. I read his projected 40 time is 4.53? I'd rather have a burner to get YAC.

OldSchool
11-14-2014, 01:41 PM
Not sure I like Strong that much. I read his projected 40 time is 4.53? I'd rather have a burner to get YAC.

We have plenty of speed guys on the team. What we need are guys who can adjust well to the ball in the air and come down with it in contested situations. None of our fast receivers have great ball skills, elite body control, or enough strength to come down with the contested catch. Strong has all of that.

When I see Strong play, I think of Marques Colston. He's not a burner but he has enough speed and is strong at the catch point. If you like the redzone effeciency now, it'll improve even more with a guy like Strong on the team.

Another player I would look at is Duke Williams in terms of a big bodied, physical WR, elite body control, and excellent hands. He can probably be had in the 3rd as I expect him to run a relatively slow 40 time like Alshon Jeffrey did.

O.city
11-14-2014, 01:56 PM
I'd actually look at Winston if he drops. Even with all the distractions, he's playing well.

That off field stuff tho....

On field I think I'd take him over mariota

RunKC
11-14-2014, 02:10 PM
We have plenty of speed guys on the team. What we need are guys who can adjust well to the ball in the air and come down with it in contested situations. None of our fast receivers have great ball skills, elite body control, or enough strength to come down with the contested catch. Strong has all of that.

When I see Strong play, I think of Marques Colston. He's not a burner but he has enough speed and is strong at the catch point. If you like the redzone effeciency now, it'll improve even more with a guy like Strong on the team.

Another player I would look at is Duke Williams in terms of a big bodied, physical WR, elite body control, and excellent hands. He can probably be had in the 3rd as I expect him to run a relatively slow 40 time like Alshon Jeffrey did.

Could definitely use a WR like that, but our speed receivers (Avery and Jenkins) both suck. They can't run routes very well and their hands suck. They are just fast and that's it.

That's why I wanted Nelson Agholor. But I would like to bring in both types of WR's and add another red zone weapon at TE.

Jarrett Boykin was a cheap option I mentioned before in free agency that is a somewhat similar type of WR to Strong (though not as talented). Hopefully he'll be one of many for us.

I want to add 2 WR's this spring. Scrap Avery, Hemmingway and Jenkins.

O.city
11-14-2014, 02:27 PM
In terms of the wr spt, I think you just need 1 to push everyone down a spot. Hemmingway is a really productive special teamer and a good 5th wr. Avery as the 3 or 4 is fine too.

I think you could upgrade the wr core by improving the offensive line. Surprisingly, when we target wrs, they're open, we just don't or aren't able to as much.

Looking at free agency, if we were to be able to have one big addition, Iupati would be my choice at LG

OldSchool
11-14-2014, 03:20 PM
I'd actually look at Winston if he drops. Even with all the distractions, he's playing well.

That off field stuff tho....

On field I think I'd take him over mariota

Hell no to Winston. that guy should be pushing grocery carts on weekends.

OldSchool
11-14-2014, 03:22 PM
Could definitely use a WR like that, but our speed receivers (Avery and Jenkins) both suck. They can't run routes very well and their hands suck. They are just fast and that's it.

That's why I wanted Nelson Agholor. But I would like to bring in both types of WR's and add another red zone weapon at TE.

Jarrett Boykin was a cheap option I mentioned before in free agency that is a somewhat similar type of WR to Strong (though not as talented). Hopefully he'll be one of many for us.

I want to add 2 WR's this spring. Scrap Avery, Hemmingway and Jenkins.
If you guys want a quick slot guy, I'm really liking ECU's Hardy around the 3rd round. Tough and quick slot guy with really good body control to adjust to any passes. He can go up and get it too.

O.city
11-14-2014, 03:36 PM
Hell no to Winston. that guy should be pushing grocery carts on weekends.

He's playing the qb position better this year than he did last year when he won the Heisman.

He's got some serious off field concerns though.

OldSchool
11-14-2014, 03:54 PM
He's playing the qb position better this year than he did last year when he won the Heisman.

He's got some serious off field concerns though.

You would actually want him as the face of the franchise?

O.city
11-14-2014, 04:09 PM
You would actually want him as the face of the franchise?

With all this that's been going on, it hasn't bothered him on the field a bit.

If I thought it was immaturity that he could grow out 9f, absolutely. But I dont have access to that stuff, so based on his on field play, yeah I'd love to have him as a franchise qb

OldSchool
11-14-2014, 04:22 PM
With all this that's been going on, it hasn't bothered him on the field a bit.

If I thought it was immaturity that he could grow out 9f, absolutely. But I dont have access to that stuff, so based on his on field play, yeah I'd love to have him as a franchise qb

The kid has an off-field rap sheet that's as bad as it can get short of him murdering someone or being a convicted felon. I wouldn't touch him.

O.city
11-14-2014, 04:30 PM
Marino had coke problems, big Ben is a rapist, Peyton Manning is a swinger.

Don't have to have boyscouts

RunKC
11-14-2014, 04:43 PM
This team for sure needs a WR and TE threat added this offseason. Load the weapons up like the Eagles.

Packers are good at this too. Take advantage of teams #3/#4 CB's and LB's.

O.city
11-14-2014, 04:49 PM
Of course he may end up being a sociopath too

Sweet Daddy Hate
11-14-2014, 07:19 PM
No "project" WR's. Must hit and hit high if the talent is there. Need to sign a reliable vet, too.
That WR corps needs juice and competition. Avery is not your long-awaited huckleberry.

OldSchool
11-16-2014, 11:40 PM
Todd Gurley tore his ACL. If he is there, I would drop a comp pick on him.

RunKC
11-17-2014, 08:28 AM
Todd Gurley tore his ACL. If he is there, I would drop a comp pick on him.

Do you think he'll fall to our 3rd rd comp?

OldSchool
11-17-2014, 09:45 AM
Do you think he'll fall to our 3rd rd comp?

I don't see a team spending their top 2 picks on a RB who tore his ACL when the position as a whole has been diminished significantly and there are other very good prospects who are actually healthy and don't currently have a knee injury.

O.city
11-17-2014, 10:26 AM
Everything I've seen on twitter from the draft community says he's still a first rounder

OldSchool
11-17-2014, 11:13 AM
Everything I've seen on twitter from the draft community says he's still a first rounder

I'll believe it when I see it. I could understand the Pats using a 1st on a guy like Easley, but on Gurley who will likely have to be at least on the temp IR list as a rookie? I don't know about that.

Direckshun
11-18-2014, 01:40 PM
Updated the OP with new projections for the following players (I updated each of the players' posts, too):

RB Ameer Abdullah, Nebraska (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11023214&postcount=144)
WR Ty Montgomery, Stanford (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11012520&postcount=117)
OT Cedric Ogbuehi, Texas A&M (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10946197&postcount=12)
NT Danny Sheldon, Washington (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11007546&postcount=106)
DT Eddie Goldman, Florida State (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11012527&postcount=118)
DE/OLB Randy Gregory, Nebraska (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=10948797&postcount=16)
OLB Shaq Thompson, Washington (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=11012547&postcount=119)

RunKC
11-19-2014, 10:41 AM
I would love Tyler Lockett or Nelson Algholor in rd 2. Both these guy would put a nice wrinkle in our offense.

Would like to add one more speed guy to the offense, mainly as a replacement for Avery and/or Jenkins. This could be as depth. I'm looking back at the beginning of the season when JC was hurt and we didn't have DAT yet. Our offense was crippled without them.

OldSchool
11-19-2014, 10:50 AM
I would love Tyler Lockett or Nelson Algholor in rd 2. Both these guy would put a nice wrinkle in our offense.

Would like to add one more speed guy to the offense, mainly as a replacement for Avery and/or Jenkins. This could be as depth. I'm looking back at the beginning of the season when JC was hurt and we didn't have DAT yet. Our offense was crippled without them.

Tyreek Hill, OSU.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/uTOjzhWm9X4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hill could be the fastest college football player in the country. The 10.19-second 100-meter dash that he ran was the fastest high school time in the country that year. But that wasn't even his best event. Hill recorded an official (read: non-wind-aided) 20.14-second 200-meter dash at the same event, the fastest time in the country and the second-fastest 200-meter dash recorded by a high schooler OF ALL TIME. He had actually run 20.49 in the prelims at the same event. Competing for Oklahoma State this spring, Hill placed fifth and the NCAA Division I Indoor Track and Field Championships, earning All-America honors after clocking a 20.57-second 200-meter dash time despite hardly preparing in the event.

To put that in perspective, Jamaal Charles' PB in the 100 meter dash was 10.26.

Sandy Vagina
11-19-2014, 11:07 AM
Another possible Derrick Johnson youngster to develop.

http://scni.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/gps/uploads/279982/web1_Amarlo-Herrera_t300.jpg?8aff03de2423e912a2467e97388a07f5331c05b6

Amarlo Herrera - Georgia Bulldogs LB - 6' 2" - 235 lbs

Looks like he was over 10 lbs heavier in 2013.. size and physicality won't be an issue. Tackling machine.. good blitzer up the middle... takes on and sheds blocks well... Not real sure yet about his pass coverage and range.. but last year he did have 6 passes broken up and an INT.

Anyone think much of him?

RunKC
11-19-2014, 11:17 AM
Tyreek Hill, OSU.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/uTOjzhWm9X4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



To put that in perspective, Jamaal Charles' PB in the 100 meter dash was 10.26.

He could be interesting, but I think I'd prefer Lockett due to his height. Lockett will will run around 4.35 which is fine with me. He plays fast too.

He also blocks very well, and he runs smooth routes. Bill Snyder makes damn sure of that in his offense.

I think he could be a great addition here. And I think we'd have to get him rd 2 bc he'll move up.

jonzie04
11-19-2014, 12:34 PM
I don't know that the wrs will go off the board as quickly as some think

well... we are going to be picking at number 32. :D

also not sure why you guys like guys like lockett and that hill guy and dont completely LOVE antwan goodley. goodley is just as fast as either guy while being 50lbs heavier, and can probably squat as much as dontari poe.

OldSchool
11-20-2014, 02:26 AM
Another possible Derrick Johnson youngster to develop.

http://scni.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/gps/uploads/279982/web1_Amarlo-Herrera_t300.jpg?8aff03de2423e912a2467e97388a07f5331c05b6

Amarlo Herrera - Georgia Bulldogs LB - 6' 2" - 235 lbs

Looks like he was over 10 lbs heavier in 2013.. size and physicality won't be an issue. Tackling machine.. good blitzer up the middle... takes on and sheds blocks well... Not real sure yet about his pass coverage and range.. but last year he did have 6 passes broken up and an INT.

Anyone think much of him?

Haven't really focused on him when watching Georgia.

DaneMcCloud
11-20-2014, 02:37 AM
Everything I've seen on twitter from the draft community says he's still a first rounder


That's crazy. There is very little chance he becomes a McGahee or Gore.

Direckshun
11-20-2014, 02:47 AM
Todd Gurley tore his ACL. If he is there, I would drop a comp pick on him.

I absolutely fucking would.

Make a long-term investment, there. Charles has two years after this year, tops.

Direckshun
11-20-2014, 02:51 AM
That's crazy. There is very little chance he becomes a McGahee or Gore.

I'd put him a solid cut above both.

He's got Eddie George potential.

DaneMcCloud
11-20-2014, 03:06 AM
I'd put him a solid cut above both.

He's got Eddie George potential.

Frank Gore has more yards and just six less TD's. His career isn't over.

George never tore his ACL, unlike Gurley and Gore.

Direckshun
11-20-2014, 03:08 AM
George was by far the more talented runner. He'd be a shoo-in Hall of Famer had the Titans not run his legs off.

Assuming Gurley rehabs well, and there's no reason he shouldn't, he possesses every trait George had.

DaneMcCloud
11-20-2014, 03:22 AM
George was by far the more talented runner. He'd be a shoo-in Hall of Famer had the Titans not run his legs off.

Assuming Gurley rehabs well, and there's no reason he shouldn't, he possesses every trait George had.
I'll take Gore every day of the week over George.

Did you SEE SF's line in the last decade?

Selecting Gurley comes with great risk. He may recover physically but may not recover mentally.

Direckshun
11-20-2014, 03:40 AM
I'll take Gore every day of the week over George.

Did you SEE SF's line in the last decade?

Selecting Gurley comes with great risk. He may recover physically but may not recover mentally.

Yeah, three 1st rounders on that OL. Gore's had solid-to-great runblocking for at LEAST part of that stretch. Gore's also been more injury prone, while George was one of the most durable RBs the league's ever seen.

Why wouldn't he recover mentally? In recent years, the track record for extremely talented RBs coming back from ACLs has been sterling.

OldSchool
11-20-2014, 04:39 AM
Yeah, three 1st rounders on that OL. Gore's had solid-to-great runblocking for at LEAST part of that stretch. Gore's also been more injury prone, while George was one of the most durable RBs the league's ever seen.

Why wouldn't he recover mentally? In recent years, the track record for extremely talented RBs coming back from ACLs has been sterling.

I wonder what Gore would have looked like if he didn't have multiple knee injuries in college. He lost a significant amount of explosion and quickness because of those injuries. But look at the career that he's been able to have in spite of those injuries.

Sandy Vagina
11-20-2014, 08:41 AM
Haven't really focused on him when watching Georgia.

Keep #52 in mind when you do.

Really liked what I saw of him last week. After I posted that, I finished watching them vs Auburn. Herrera was impressive in coverage, as well as being a thumper. You probably don't like him running stride for stride with WRs or fast TEs.. but you don't really want to see DJ doing that either.

I suspect he may get more attention soon, and at least rise in the ranks to the middle draft rounds.

OldSchool
11-20-2014, 09:23 AM
Keep #52 in mind when you do.

Really liked what I saw of him last week. After I posted that, I finished watching them vs Auburn. Herrera was impressive in coverage, as well as being a thumper. You probably don't like him running stride for stride with WRs or fast TEs.. but you don't really want to see DJ doing that either.

I suspect he may get more attention soon, and at least rise in the ranks to the middle draft rounds.
I tend to keep my eyes on Ramik Wilson when I'm watching Georgia LBs.

O.city
11-20-2014, 10:04 AM
Gurleys tear also wasn't a gruesome one like McGahee or Lattimore.

DaneMcCloud
11-20-2014, 01:24 PM
Yeah, three 1st rounders on that OL. Gore's had solid-to-great runblocking for at LEAST part of that stretch. Gore's also been more injury prone, while George was one of the most durable RBs the league's ever seen.

Why wouldn't he recover mentally? In recent years, the track record for extremely talented RBs coming back from ACLs has been sterling.

Gore rushed for 1698 yards the year before Joe Staley, the first of the first rounders you mention, joined the team. Staley, who's from CMU (like Eric Fisher) took a few years to develop. Iupati and Davis didn't arrive until 2010.

Eddie George's ran for career high 1509 yards behind HOFer Bruce Matthews and very good linemen in Brad Hopkins and Benji Olsen.

I'll take Gore over George any day of the week.

DaneMcCloud
11-20-2014, 01:28 PM
Gurleys tear also wasn't a gruesome one like McGahee or Lattimore.

While that's true, there is no reason in this day and age to take a running back in round one.

Most of the first round running backs taken recently have been disappointing to outright busts like Trent Richardson, Ryan Matthews, Mark Ingram and Doug Martin.

Not only are late rounders like Alfred Morris, Alfred Blue and nondrated guys like Arian Foster found each year, Jamaal Charles and Knile Davis were third rounders and LeSean McCoy a second rounder.

RunKC
11-20-2014, 01:43 PM
Would anyone really be surprised of We took an OT rd 1 next year? Harris is avg at best and Stephenson has done nothing more than be an extra blocker since he got busted.

That's not what I would do, but I can see our brass making that pick based on their philosophy.

DaneMcCloud
11-20-2014, 01:54 PM
Would anyone really be surprised of We took an OT rd 1 next year? Harris is avg at best and Stephenson has done nothing more than be an extra blocker since he got busted.

That's not what I would do, but I can see our brass making that pick based on their philosophy.

I'd be very, very surprised. The Chiefs have proven two years in a row that it's possible to sign guys to Vet minimum contracts and have them perform well. Schwartz last season and Harris this season.

It would also be a surprise since Stephenson and Allen have both played right tackle and both are under contract. Plus, CB, ILB, S, WR & TE are all better value selections than a right tackle in the late first.

O.city
11-20-2014, 01:58 PM
This year's safety crop is pretty meh.

I think a TE or WR will be there and match up for is. Maybe an ILB, but just as RB, it would have to be a Kuhl type player to take that early.

They're in a good spot that they can just sit where they are and take a good player that falls for whatever reason. Not shoehorned to any position.

I think he's probably a sociopath, but if Winston were to fall therr I might think about that just for the value.

O.city
11-20-2014, 01:59 PM
Or a good defensive lineman prospect to replace DeVito

DaneMcCloud
11-20-2014, 02:03 PM
Or a good defensive lineman prospect to replace DeVito

I think Jaye Howard is doing just fine

O.city
11-20-2014, 02:14 PM
I think Jaye Howard is doing just fine

Yeah, he's playing well.

But if there's a guy with a higher upside there like the dude from Florida state, would be a good pick.

O.city
11-20-2014, 02:19 PM
They really need wr options on the outside. I wouldn't trade up for ine, but I hope one is there for us.

Saccopoo
11-20-2014, 02:39 PM
Would anyone really be surprised of We took an OT rd 1 next year? Harris is avg at best and Stephenson has done nothing more than be an extra blocker since he got busted.

That's not what I would do, but I can see our brass making that pick based on their philosophy.

Yes.

Jaw on the floor level shocked.

DaneMcCloud
11-20-2014, 02:58 PM
Yeah, he's playing well.

But if there's a guy with a higher upside there like the dude from Florida state, would be a good pick.

While I fully expect Dorsey select a DE in the 2015 draft, I'd be shocked if it were in the first or second round.

Jaye Howard is 25 and Catapano is 24. Bailey is locked up and Walker can play end or NT. I don't see any reason to use an early pick on a platoon player.

Sandy Vagina
11-20-2014, 03:56 PM
Would anyone really be surprised of We took an OT rd 1 next year? Harris is avg at best and Stephenson has done nothing more than be an extra blocker since he got busted.

That's not what I would do, but I can see our brass making that pick based on their philosophy.

Wouldn't surprise. Allen and Stephenson would be on their final contract years... and Harris will be an UFA.

I probably would prefer a WR in rd one AGAIN, but I don't think it would upset me if KC instead drafted a top OT. There will likely be some decent WR options remaining in the following rds.

RunKC
11-20-2014, 04:08 PM
I'd be very, very surprised. The Chiefs have proven two years in a row that it's possible to sign guys to Vet minimum contracts and have them perform well. Schwartz last season and Harris this season.

It would also be a surprise since Stephenson and Allen have both played right tackle and both are under contract. Plus, CB, ILB, S, WR & TE are all better value selections than a right tackle in the late first.

I agree with everything but ILB. It's not a better value option. We've been fine with FA ILB's the last 2 seasons. Hell we lost DJ and it still didn't hurt us.

If it's me, I know defense wins. I'm taking a CB round 1. I don't see a safety or TE that would be worthy of a late first rd pick this year, and we can easily get a WR in rd 2 to add to weapons we already have.

Here's what we have at CB right now:

Sean Smith-FA after 2015. Top 5 highest paid player on team.
Phillip Gaines-great player who will be #2 CB next yr
Chris Owens-midget who isn't that great and should be gone in '15
Marcus Cooper-can't even get on the field. He's been awful this year.
Jamell Fleming-good depth but hasn't stayed healthy.

So basically we have 2 reliable players next year. We've been so bad there with injuries/depth that we've had Ron Parker play CB.
It's bad when Parker is playing CB bc he's not the same talent he is there as opposed to when he's playing in space at safety.

Hopefully Cooper gets better next year, but right now I'm not counting on him.