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View Full Version : I can care for my dog, lady.


Phobia
05-30-2002, 03:31 PM
5 minutes ago, I'm interrupted from my intense internet browsing by somebody beating on my door. I don't get many visitors and I'm in no rush to get there, so the pounding continues. When I finally arrive at the door, I see a woman ranting about my dog.....

Bogey is a maltese and he's tied to a tree 10 feet from the front door of my house. He LOVES the outdoors and had been out there about 30 minutes. When he's ready to come in, he barks at me.

Anyway, this woman is ranting about no water, hot as hell, sun beating down, blahblahblah when I tell her, "Uh, I think I can take care of my own dog, lady". "Thanks".

BTW, it's mid 80's today in Houston.....

She informed me that she would be reporting me if she saw it again. Brought the dog in and he still hasn't ventured near his water 15 minutes later....

I think the woman has herself chained to a tree marked for removal down the street.

Mile High Mania
05-30-2002, 03:34 PM
Put him back out there... leave a hose next to your front door and ready to go. When she comes back and complains about the lack of water ... let the H2O flow...

ZootedGranny
05-30-2002, 03:34 PM
I hate people that take it upon themselves to become "dog police."

Bootlegged
05-30-2002, 03:35 PM
kick her in the gunt and tell her to mind her own dumbarse PETA lovin business.

memyselfI
05-30-2002, 03:37 PM
I report people like this in a split second...

however, I usually do wait until the heat index is in the 100s and the dog is left exposed without any shade.

It appears yours was neither so perhaps she was jumping the gun...

BIG_DADDY
05-30-2002, 03:37 PM
Don''t sweat it Phil. There is always going to be somebody who thinks they know what's best for everyone. If I were you I would put the dog right back out there. Maybe you should teach it to bite nosey neighbors. She would never make it to the door that way. :LOL: I know my new pitbull pup wouldn't let her anywhere near the front door already.

FreakShow
05-30-2002, 03:37 PM
Hey Phob, you give that dog water, food, self-esteem and a job right now or I'll report you too!! You are a disgrace!!

KC Dan
05-30-2002, 03:40 PM
PETA, PETA, PETA!!! :LOL:

Iowanian
05-30-2002, 03:40 PM
Phil,

I propose that when she comes back, You tie her up with the chain to the tree....and pelt her with sun baked "poodle noodles"

Behold the fury of sinnester revenge bro
Bwhahahahahahahahaha

Brock
05-30-2002, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by memyselfi
I report people like this in a split second...

however, I usually do wait until the heat index is in the 100s and the dog is left exposed without any shade.

It appears yours was neither so perhaps she was jumping the gun...

Gosh ya think so?

Bootlegged
05-30-2002, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by memyselfi
I report people like this in a split second...

however, I usually do wait until the heat index is in the 100s and the dog is left exposed without any shade.

It appears yours was neither so perhaps she was jumping the gun...


SHOCKER! :shake:

FreakShow
05-30-2002, 03:46 PM
Steal her dog, beat it, starve it, dehydrate it, paint it a different color, tie it to HER tree on a really short leash and then report HER to the police.









I'm really not this mean. I don't know how this idea popped into my head! I'm scared.

Mile High Mania
05-30-2002, 03:48 PM
I walked by my neighbors house the other day and their 10 year old was outside by himself... looked like he was playing in the dirt, couldn't tell if there were toys or not.

So, I called Social Services and said my neighbor had abandoned their child, he appeared to be covered in dirt and he was thin... most likely mal-nurished.

I feel better now.

Chiefnj
05-30-2002, 03:49 PM
Tell her if she complains again you'll beat the dog silly and put it in a burlap bag and bring it down to the pond like you did with those puppies you used to have that never learned to shut up. Tell her that you hope she sleeps well knowing that the dog was beaten because she couldn't mind her own business.

Tonight, go out and buy a fur or fake fur garment that is similar to your pooch in color. Tomorrow tie the garment to a leash, attach it to your bumper and drive by the ladies house until she notices you. Tell her "I hope your happy!" and drive away.

FreakShow
05-30-2002, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Chiefnj
Tell her if she complains again you'll beat the dog silly and put it in a burlap bag and bring it down to the pond like you did with those puppies you used to have that never learned to shut up. Tell her that you hope she sleeps well knowing that the dog was beaten because she couldn't mind her own business.

Tonight, go out and buy a fur or fake fur garment that is similar to your pooch in color. Tomorrow tie the garment to a leash, attach it to your bumper and drive by the ladies house until she notices you. Tell her "I hope your happy!" and drive away.


:LOL: ROFL :D ;) :LOL: ROFL :D

memyselfI
05-30-2002, 03:52 PM
Perhaps putting the dog in the BACKYARD would be less an invitation for commentary.

Perhaps the motivation was not that the dog was hot but that the dog is not wanted in the front yard...

just a thought.

Bootlegged
05-30-2002, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by memyselfi
Perhaps putting the dog in the BACKYARD would be less an invitation for commentary.

Perhaps the motivation was not that the dog was hot but that the dog is not wanted in the front yard...

just a thought.


hmmm....whose yard is it?


MIND YOUR BUSINESS

Phobia
05-30-2002, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by memyselfi
Perhaps putting the dog in the BACKYARD would be less an invitation for commentary.

Perhaps the motivation was not that the dog was hot but that the dog is not wanted in the front yard...

I'm pretty sure you're mistaken. I don't have a backyard. Perhaps her motivation was that she's a nosey beeatch and she doesn't understand the resiliency of dogs. 30 minutes outside without water isn't going to affect them any more than it would affect you or I.

KC Dan
05-30-2002, 03:55 PM
Who really should care? The dog is in his yard and it is obviously not overheated when the temp isn't bad. People just need to mind their own business if there is no real danger to the animal and worry about their own sorry, pathetic lives!

Brock
05-30-2002, 03:56 PM
Perhaps people minding their own goddamn business might solve the problem.

memyselfI
05-30-2002, 04:01 PM
If you don't have a backyard then unfortunately you are subject to your neighbors observations of what goes on in your front yard. I think it was rather nice of her to warn you BEFORE she actually turned you in.

She could have done it annonymously and you would not have had any idea who did it and the ability to call your neighbor sexist names.

I think she jumped the gun...

but I also think that what goes on in my front yard is pretty much open for public consumption. And so I've been pissed off when I get a notice about the weeds (on the occasions that I skip a week and do not mow) and I figure one of my neighbors has called...it sucks but if its in my front yard then I really have no way to conceal it.

Iowanian
05-30-2002, 04:04 PM
His yard, His dog, His business.

You should be able to practice WWF moves on Fido if you want...provided he is wearing the proper safety gear.....she could always offer to stand it as a stunt double if she really cares..

The same chick is probably watching Rodeo on TV and blistering fingers on a letter of complaint for the misuse of horsies that would be much better treated in the wild....

ChiTown
05-30-2002, 04:07 PM
Phil

I think it's time that you start letting your dog take it's morning crapper in her front yard. It would be a nice touch, dontcha think?

Lzen
05-30-2002, 04:09 PM
Man, you should really take that dog out of the heat. This is what happened to mine when I left them out too long.

:D :D :D

Iowanian
05-30-2002, 04:12 PM
What you should do, is go buy a rabbit, put a small pit fire in the front yard and rotate it on a spit...and when people walk by say things like "you were a good dog..."

JimNasium
05-30-2002, 04:12 PM
She didn't have a NEPA bumper sticker on her car did she?!? :p

Mile High Mania
05-30-2002, 04:12 PM
Front yard ... back yard, shouldn't matter.

If more people would just mind their own g--damn business, then people would treat each other a hell of a lot nicer.

Letting your yard go astray without mowing or weeding is one thing that you shouldn't let happen. Comparing it to this is stupid. Letting your dog enjoy being outside, safely tied to a tree is no big damn deal.

You do realize that pet stores across the nation sell these steel posts that you drive into the ground for the express purpose of chaining your dog to it in order for them to run around somewhat freely without fear of running away or getting hit by a car.

I suggest that you (Denise) and the other concerned citizens boycott the manufacturer of those types of devices. Nah ... I still like the idea of minding your own g--damn business.

Lzen
05-30-2002, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Iowanian
What you should do, is go buy a rabbit, put a small pit fire in the front yard and rotate it on a spit...and when people walk by say things like "you were a good dog..."

Man Iowanian,
You are one dimented dude. I like you. :)

BIG_DADDY
05-30-2002, 04:15 PM
If you don't have a backyard then unfortunately you are subject to your neighbors observations of what goes on in your front yard. I think it was rather nice of her to warn you BEFORE she actually turned you in.

Jesus Christ what a tainted point of view. Why do you insist on making everybody elses business your own or stick up for people that are always nosing into everybody elses business.

Bootlegged
05-30-2002, 04:15 PM
You should pull a Jim Carey from " Me Myself and Irene" and go take a sh!t in her front yard. That should shut her up.

Hoover
05-30-2002, 04:20 PM
go get some bone an put them in the yard and say "hmm maybe that what happend to my last dog.")

chief husker
05-30-2002, 04:44 PM
File a police report for harrasment

KC Kings
05-30-2002, 04:45 PM
Phobia,
What a baby. Quit your crying, and tell that god damn ***** to
STFD and STFU

FreakShow
05-30-2002, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by memyselfi
If you don't have a backyard then unfortunately you are subject to your neighbors observations of what goes on in your front yard. I think it was rather nice of her to warn you BEFORE she actually turned you in.

She could have done it annonymously and you would not have had any idea who did it and the ability to call your neighbor sexist names.

I think she jumped the gun...

but I also think that what goes on in my front yard is pretty much open for public consumption. And so I've been pissed off when I get a notice about the weeds (on the occasions that I skip a week and do not mow) and I figure one of my neighbors has called...it sucks but if its in my front yard then I really have no way to conceal it.

I bet you'd enjoy arguing with a stop sign.

FreakShow
05-30-2002, 05:20 PM
Bogey - Maltese = I get it.

pink
05-30-2002, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by Mile High Mania
Front yard ... back yard, shouldn't matter.

If more people would just mind their own g--damn business, then people would treat each other a hell of a lot nicer.

Letting your yard go astray without mowing or weeding is one thing that you shouldn't let happen. Comparing it to this is stupid. Letting your dog enjoy being outside, safely tied to a tree is no big damn deal.

You do realize that pet stores across the nation sell these steel posts that you drive into the ground for the express purpose of chaining your dog to it in order for them to run around somewhat freely without fear of running away or getting hit by a car.

I suggest that you (Denise) and the other concerned citizens boycott the manufacturer of those types of devices. Nah ... I still like the idea of minding your own g--damn business.

MY dog, MY sentiments exactly. thanks MHM. i was wondering if we were using the package from the pet store correctly that was labeled "dog tie-out" ... hmmm.

WilliamTheIrish
05-30-2002, 05:50 PM
... "We must be vigilant".... maybe she thought that was what he meant.
Does your dog wear a turban, own a 7-11 and pray facing East 5 times a day?

...............Or "It takes a Village" maybe...........???


WilliamTheIrish

headsnap
05-30-2002, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by WilliamTheIrish
... "We must be vigilant".... maybe she thought that was what he meant.
Does your dog wear a turban, own a 7-11 and pray facing East 5 times a day?

...............Or "It takes a Village" maybe...........???


WilliamTheIrish


Is the dog an Afghan?

:p

jAZ
05-30-2002, 06:08 PM
There are an aweful lot of people out there that don't give a $hit about pets... I respect those that make an effort to care. Better safe than sorry.

It doesn't sound like this woman had anyway of knowing that the dog had been outside for 5 minutes or 5 hours. And given the sentiment on this board, I imagine she didn't know what to expect when she approached the door. I am assuming she didn't know what a moderate, peaceful person Phob is.

I would consider doing the same thing. Dogs tied to trees put me in a particularly suspicious mindset. I would consider her advice (however poorly delivered) good advice. If you are gonna tie a dog to a tree, a water bowl wouldn't hurt.

I hate people that treat pets like crap. Maybe she could work on her delievery, but again, better safe than sorry.

Phobia
05-30-2002, 06:14 PM
That's a pretty good post, Justin. However, she told me she saw me tie him out a half hour prior when she was just starting her "walk".

I respect people with the nutz to confront somebody on these issues themselves, but fer christmas sake, monitor the situation before insulting the owners..... She tried to make me feel an abusive owner, which I'm FAR from being. This daggone ankle biter is the most spoiled pet I've ever owned.

Additionally, I've put water out there before. This dog is very finicky. He only drinks at certain times and only from a special bowl posted at his special spot. If he's out there more than 45-60 minutes, he starts barking to come in. He's never been in any danger out there.

KS Smitty
05-30-2002, 06:24 PM
Is her name Gladys Kravitz and does she belong to the "Church Across From Bob Dole"?
I agree with MHM, if you don't like what you see on my property or in my yard DON'T LOOK! It's no wonder no one has a front porch anymore, someone might be offended by Ma readin the Sunday paper in her housecoat.
It's that time of year for everyone to be more aware of their pets heat tolerance levels (as I'm sure you do Phil) but if she knew when the dog was put outside then I'm not sure of her concern, unless she thought you were gonna leave him there indefinately.

KCWolfman
05-30-2002, 06:50 PM
Phil - Not only would I have not brought the dog in, I would have made a sign saying "Fido says mind your own business. Don't be a bitch like Fido."

KCWolfman
05-30-2002, 06:54 PM
It appears yours was neither so perhaps she was jumping the gun... Just because someone owns a knife doesn't automatically make them a killer. Just because Phil's dog was outside does not make him an animal abuser. The stupid broad wasn't "jumping the gun". That would insinuate that Phil intended to abuse his animal. The stupid broad was sticking her nose where it didn't belong.


Perhaps putting the dog in the BACKYARD would be less an invitation for commentary. Perhaps PAYING for your own home gives you the right to put your dog in whichever portion of your yard you desire, without the intervention of people who don't belong.

BTW - Nice to have you back, Denise.;)

milkman
05-30-2002, 06:55 PM
When she came to the door, you should have barked like a dog, and bit her on the ankle.

Honestly though, I would have treated her the same way I treat salesmen that come to my door.
I'd have told her I wasn't interested in anything she was selling, and shut the door on her, before she had any opportunity to say anything.

KCWolfman
05-30-2002, 06:59 PM
Maybe she could work on her delievery, but again, better safe than sorry. Justin - Let's assume that you and your significant other are in a grocery. Your S.O. has brought her niece and the little girl is crying because she wants candy. Your S.O. tells the little girl to quit crying or she will be spanked. I walk up and tell you that you should control your S.O.. I further state that she is out of control by threatening the child with violence and I will not hesitate to call the police. I end the conversation by saying, "I hope you understand. I just believe it is better to be safe than sorry."

Would you say, "Thanks"?

jAZ
05-30-2002, 07:10 PM
Substitute "locked in a hot car with the windows cracked" and we have a comparable situation.

In my situation I would feel the same way.

And if you choose to keep your scenario, I would argue that there are too many shades of gray to comment. Given your facts, I would say words about spanking don't warrant intervention. Words about "beating the #ell out of you when we get home"... well I just might have something to say.

KCWolfman
05-30-2002, 07:14 PM
Justin - You answered my question....

There are TOO MANY SHADES OF GRAY for comment. Just as there were for the nosy neighbor in Phil's case.

The woman should have been sprayed with the hose and told to leave.

papasmurf
05-30-2002, 07:18 PM
Phil you got a right to be upset but the lady had spunk. I see dogs tied up all the time on my mail route with no water or shade. Granted 30 minutes is not long but I have seen them tied out for the day and nobody home. I always try to leave a container with some water in it for them. I to have knocked on doors.:cuss:

Zebedee DuBois
05-30-2002, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by papasmurf
Phil you got a right to be upset but the lady had spunk. I see dogs tied up all the time on my mail route with no water or shade. Granted 30 minutes is not long but I have seen them tied out for the day and nobody home. I always try to leave a container with some water in it for them. I to have knocked on doors.:cuss:


What's this??????

Postal carriers being kind to dogs????




Apocolypse! Apocolypse! Apocolypse! Apocolypse! Apocolypse!

papasmurf
05-30-2002, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by Zebedee DuBois



What's this??????

Postal carriers being kind to dogs????




Apocolypse! Apocolypse! Apocolypse! Apocolypse! Apocolypse!

I like dogs had 5 of them at one time. down to 2 now. I have had dogs save my ass more than once on the mail route.

jAZ
05-30-2002, 07:29 PM
I still see the situations as totally different. A dog tied to a tree on a hot day are direct evidence of abuse. It might not rise to the level of abuse, but abuse of a dog can take on that form.

Telling a child they are about to be spanked doesn't (to me) constitute direct evidence of abuse. Something like the phrase "beating the #ell out of you when we get home" or seeing a baby in locked hot car would rise to the level.

Just because there are shades of gray doesn't mean that a person should never act. If I walk by a car on the way into the grocery store, and I see a baby in a locked, hot car. And I come out 1/2 hour later, and I see the same car and baby with no one in sight, I am going to start raising red flags.

If instead it is only 5 minutes, and the mom is walking out with me, I might or might not say anything. I certainly wouldn't begrudge someone else for approaching the mother and questioning the behavior.

KCWolfman
05-30-2002, 07:31 PM
It might not rise to the level of abuse, but abuse of a dog can take on that form. The key word is "CAN" in your sentence. Just as spanking CAN lead to abuse.

Until CAN becomes DOES, the woman had no right on Phil's property.

Brock
05-30-2002, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by KCWolfman
Until CAN becomes DOES, the woman had no right on Phil's property.

Even if it did become a DOES situation, she's still trespassing. Not to mention, sticking her big fat nose where it doesn't belong.

papasmurf
05-30-2002, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by Brock Landers


Even if it did become a DOES situation, she's still trespassing. Not to mention, sticking her big fat nose where it doesn't belong.

Yes she is trespassing but better that than her calling the humane society and getting a fine.

KCWolfman
05-30-2002, 07:36 PM
Brock - I would have no problem with someone stopping a crime in progress, even if it led to trespassing. However the broad evidently saw previews of Minority Report and ASSUMED Phil would commit a crime in the future with the dog.

One can only hope she walks into the wrong yard someday and the poor little canine gets a taste of little old biddy.

jAZ
05-30-2002, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by KCWolfman
The key word is "CAN" in your sentence. Just as spanking CAN lead to abuse.

And someone walking by may have no way of knowing if it has already risen to the level of abuse. Abuse is often masked.

Sounds like you are saying that if a teacher sees bruises on a child, they shouldn't ask any questions until they see the parent beating the child. Bruises are direct evidence of abuse. It might not rise to the level of abuse (the child could have fallen), but abuse of a child can take on that form.

Rausch
05-30-2002, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by papasmurf


Yes she is trespassing but better that than her calling the humane society and getting a fine.

On what evidence?

There has to be proof of neglect or abuse. There wasn't any. Her f'd up word against his.

No, no fine. He had a dog outside. I don't know 'bout Texas, but dog's LIVE outside here in Missouri. Summer, fall, winter, and spring. Every day. Rain or shine.

It's wrong, but good luck getting that fine to stick on anyone.....

KCWolfman
05-30-2002, 07:39 PM
And someone walking by may have no way of knowing if it has already risen to the level of abuse. Abuse is often masked.
Was there proof of "masking"? Such as the bruises you mention in your next paragraph?

If you have NO WAY OF KNOWING, then you don't deserve to make any assumptions. It is that simple.

Frazod
05-30-2002, 07:40 PM
God, how ridiculous.

If the dog had been out there all day, barking and whimpering, in obvious distress, that would be one thing. Clearly it wasn't.

People like this make me insane. It's bad enough we have to deal with them in public. When they invade our personal space, that is just too much.

This bitch can count her blessings that she pounded on Phil's door and not mine. I would have gone off like a pipe bomb.

KCWolfman
05-30-2002, 07:41 PM
My Golden Retriever and my Sheperd/Sharpei live outside year round. They have doghouses and a mudroom in the winter if they wish to get in out of the cold.

You are welcome to call any society or law enforcement agency if you suspect me of wrongdoing. You are NOT welcome on my property to ASSUME what you will.

Brock
05-30-2002, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by Justin
Sounds like you are saying that if a teacher sees bruises on a child, they shouldn't ask any questions until they see the parent beating the child.

My mistake, I thought we were talking about a DOG, not a HUMAN BEING.

papasmurf
05-30-2002, 07:45 PM
Being outside is no abuse, being ouside with no food or water is.

KCWolfman
05-30-2002, 07:48 PM
Assuming your neighbor is committing a crime without a solitary shred of evidence is abuse as well.

jAZ
05-30-2002, 07:58 PM
This discussion isn't about the particulars of Phil's case. We all seem to know enough about him to ASSUME his story is true. I make case, I am agruing with the following more boadly stated points...

Originally posted by Lattimer

hmmm....whose yard is it?

MIND YOUR BUSINESS

Originally posted by Brock Landers
Perhaps people minding their own ******* business might solve the problem.

Originally posted by Iowanian
His yard, His dog, His business.

Originally posted by KS Smitty
I agree with MHM, if you don't like what you see on my property or in my yard DON'T LOOK!

These statements get me in the mood to fight back. This retoric sounds a lot like "keep outa my business, I will beat/starve my dog, child, wife as I see fit... If you don't like what I do, don't look... I own the damn house, not you.

KCWolfman
05-30-2002, 08:00 PM
Justin - The difference is the statements you quoted are all FACTS. Your ASSUMPTIONS are that the animals are being beaten, starved, etc.

You have no right to make foundless assumptions.

Perhaps installing a Big Brother cam over everyone's roof to insure the dogs are not abused would make you happy?

jAZ
05-30-2002, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by KCWolfman
Assuming your neighbor is committing a crime without a solitary shred of evidence is abuse as well.

A dog chained to a tree in the heat of the day without water is evidence. Actual abuse may not exist (as in this case) but it might. There may be no way to tell, until you approach the house and ask the owner what's up. Sounds like should should have asked and not told Phil what was going on.

But approaching the house and talking to Phil isn't the problem. Not "minding her own damn business" isn't the problem. The problem sounds me to be in her delivery.

Brock
05-30-2002, 08:02 PM
Well that's great. I'm so glad my wife and kids and dog have someone like you out there looking out for their interests. Frankly, if a man steps up to me and questions the manner in which I care for my kids or pet or whatever, he'd better duck.

jAZ
05-30-2002, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by KCWolfman
Justin - The difference is the statements you quoted are all FACTS. Your ASSUMPTIONS are that the animals are being beaten, starved, etc.

You have no right to make foundless assumptions.

Perhaps installing a Big Brother cam over everyone's roof to insure the dogs are not abused would make you happy?

Explain the difference between ASSUMPTIONS and interpretations? If I see a baby in a hot car, a dog on a tree, or a child with bruises, I see evidence. I can interpret that evidence in many ways. I hear a lot of people saying what shoulds like "never assume the worst because its not any of your business".

jAZ
05-30-2002, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by Brock Landers
Well that's great. I'm so glad my wife and kids and dog have someone like you out there looking out for their interests. Frankly, if a man steps up to me and questions the manner in which I care for my kids or pet or whatever, he'd better duck.

If I am willing to take that risk, then I must have seen something significant.

jAZ
05-30-2002, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by Brock Landers


My mistake, I thought we were talking about a DOG, not a HUMAN BEING.

Abuse of either animals or human beings are both crimes. Shouldn't matter what we are talking about. Should it? In both cases, evidence of crimes being commited exists.

ExtremeChief
05-30-2002, 08:10 PM
ok... maybe this individual would also come over if my kid left one of his toys laying out in the yard, if someone had been lurking around my house when I wasn't home, if the windows were rolled down in my car and a storm was coming, etc...

no, she probably wouldn't, but if she can find something to bitch about... that's ok.

She knew the dog had only been out for half an hour, the dog wasn't panting, barking, or going nuts. She needs to mind her own damn business.

KCWolfman
05-30-2002, 08:13 PM
There may be no way to tell, until you approach the house and ask the owner what's up And there is no law that says at that point I can't say, "Get the f&ck out of here before I call the police, stupid ass" and slam the door in the broad's face.

Assuming the worst is bad enough, acting on assumptions without proof is even worse.

jAZ
05-30-2002, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by KCWolfman
And there is no law that says at that point I can't say, "Get the f&ck out of here before I call the police, stupid ***" and slam the door in the broad's face.

Assuming the worst is bad enough, acting on assumptions without proof is even worse.

How is approaching the dog owner and asking questions "acting" on assumptions? You guys sound like I am claiming that the dog owner should be in jail for this kind of thing.

I am simply defending the woman asking questions. #ell, I am not even agreeing with exactly what she did. Just the act of poking around alittle.

What if she was a cop walking his beat, would that change things? Someone who is assigned to investigate potential criminal activity on behalf of society? Are neighborhood watch programs crap, if they are watching out for suspicious behavior in a neighborhood? How about a neighbor moving your newspaper out of your front driveway while you are on vacation. Is that worthy of having to "duck"?

tommykat
05-30-2002, 08:20 PM
Without reading all the bull.........I know Phob, and he wouldn't do anything to hurt anyone/animals. HOWEVER, next time just put water out.
Most animal lovers don't like to see any animal out on a leash and without water. "I see it that way". Easy to take care of though without offending anyone.
A Maltesse is little and fragile so I see what she thought. Phob, you and Pink are OK......(HEY.....I NEED WATER )..........:D

Bwana
05-30-2002, 08:21 PM
It sounds like the old hide needs to find a hobby? I guess if it were me, I would have told her to go have self with her self and shut the door.:spank:

KCWolfman
05-30-2002, 08:23 PM
Justin - Just saying I would have the right to act as I choose. If you step on people's property, be ready to take the heat. If it were you or some stupid old biddy telling me how to take care of my animal, I would treat you the same way.

jAZ
05-30-2002, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by KCWolfman
Justin - Just saying I would have the right to act as I choose. If you step on people's property, be ready to take the heat. If it were you or some stupid old biddy telling me how to take care of my animal, I would treat you the same way.

I guess my point is that an animal abuser (or child abuser) would say the exact same thing. "It's my business, stay out of it. You try to intervene, and I am gonna come out swinging." Saying those things doesn't make you an abuser, but it certainly doesn't distinguish you much from one.

Potential abuse and abuse often appear to be the exact same thing from the outside. I can't in any way agree that it is ok for ME to turn the other cheek if I suspect abuse (of an animal or a child).

Mr Grimm
05-30-2002, 08:38 PM
next time she comes by....

UNLEASH THE HOUND!!!

I dont care if you walk by and see me fighting my dog...how do you know were not training!!

MY PROPERTY....YOUR ASS!!!!

MOVE IT OR LOSE IT!!!!:cuss:

KCWolfman
05-30-2002, 08:40 PM
I can't in any way agree that it is ok for ME to turn the other cheek if I suspect abuse (of an animal or a child). Therein is the rub between our perceptions.

SUSPECTING and Acting on Suspections are two separate things.

Acting ILLEGALLY on suspections is simply over the line. If you suspect abuse and you expect an abuser to act as I described, why would you confront them to begin with? Seems to me the logical thing to do is call the authorities, not act as one.

jAZ
05-30-2002, 08:47 PM
If I am walking by and see something strange (what ever that might be to me), I have 3 choices.

1) approach you and ask questions
2) call the police and let them handle it
3) do nothing

The only wrong answer, IMO, is #3. If I choose #1, then I am taking my safety into my own hands. You might be a serial killer, or there might be a wicked, rabid poodle around the corner. That's the risk I take. #2 is the safest option, but I might feel that the evidence doesn't necessarily warrent calling the police (that might be overkill). And I would prefer checking things out and asking questions myself.

It seems that the lesson learned from this thread, is that if I move back to KC, I better just call the police. So much for being one of America's friendliest cities.

KCWolfman
05-30-2002, 08:49 PM
Again Justin - If you expect one who is an abuser of animals to threaten you to leave his property, why would you insist on going on the property to begin with?

Is there something you can do that the police cannot?

Brock
05-30-2002, 08:50 PM
Nobody likes a self-righteous do-gooder. That's not unique to KC.

KCWolfman
05-30-2002, 08:51 PM
And FWIW - I LOVE my neighborhood. I am on a first name basis with everyone on our block. We all sit on porches and decks and invite one another over for drinks. We occassionally eat together and entertain one another.

Liberty is a very friendly place - one that is not run by a bunch of socialists trying to tell us how to live.

Mr Grimm
05-30-2002, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by Justin
If I am walking by and see something strange (what ever that might be to me), I have 3 choices.

1) approach you and ask questions
2) call the police and let them handle it
3) do nothing

The only wrong answer, IMO, is #3. If I choose #1, then I am taking my safety into my own hands. You might be a serial killer, or there might be a wicked, rabid poodle around the corner. That's the risk I take. #2 is the safest option, but I might feel that the evidence doesn't necessarily warrent calling the police (that might be overkill). And I would prefer checking things out and asking questions myself.

It seems that the lesson learned from this thread, is that if I move back to KC, I better just call the police. So much for being one of America's friendliest cities.



Sorry...but if you do 1 or 2 im my neighborhood....you'd have 80 yr old men with shotguns asking questions at your door!!


thats the problem today!! People think they actually have a reason to stick their noses im other peoples business....no F*$K OFF!! Unless it has done somthing TO YOU...keep to yourself!!
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT!!

KCWolfman
05-30-2002, 08:52 PM
No, Virginia, it does not take a village to raise a dog.

jAZ
05-30-2002, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by Mr.Grimm
Sorry...but if you do 1 or 2 im my neighborhood....you'd have 80 yr old men with shotguns asking questions at your door!!


thats the problem today!! People think they actually have a reason to stick their noses im other peoples business....no F*$K OFF!! Unless it has done somthing TO YOU...keep to yourself!!
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT!!

If I see you kick the $hit out of your dog/child on the front porch (clear and distinct example of abuse to illustrate my point), I am calling the police. I have every right. To say I don't is absurd. To say that if I do, I will have shotguns in my face tells me I don't want to live near those guys.

jAZ
05-30-2002, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by KCWolfman
And FWIW - I LOVE my neighborhood. I am on a first name basis with everyone on our block. We all sit on porches and decks and invite one another over for drinks. We occassionally eat together and entertain one another.

Liberty is a very friendly place - one that is not run by a bunch of socialists trying to tell us how to live.


You can't be talking about me. Are you? Cause I don't remember implying that I would tell anyone how to live. Not anymore than hoping that existing laws be enforced (therebye indirectly telling people how to live).

We must be having 2 different coversations... with 2 mental scenarios in mind. We can't be this far apart unless we are talking past each other.

I am glad that you have a great neighborhood. I imagine that most/all of your neighbors are not child/animal abusers. That doesn't mean that if I see someone commiting a crime (or what I think might be a crime) in your/my neighborhood, that I shouldn't call the police. If I am not certain that it is a crime, and instead of calling the police. I might choose to be an understanding kind neighbor and I knock on the door and ask a few questions ("your dog looks hot, do you mind if I put out a bowl of water", did you happen to forget about your dog", etc)

Mr Grimm
05-30-2002, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by Justin


If I see you kick the $hit out of your dog/child on the front porch (clear and distinct example of abuse to illustrate my point), I am calling the police. I have every right. To say I don't is absurd. To say that if I do, I will have shotguns in my face tells me I don't want to live near those guys.

not what i meant...
the meant in my neighborhood are all 80. If there is unwanted trouble...it is dealt with. I dont believe that phobia was HURTING his dog..he wasnt even outside...the woman had no right to even enter his property. My father raises German shepards and when he was tringing them he would play fight...rough but it was still play...so the dog would learn commands...how do you know what it is your seeing??

Brock
05-30-2002, 09:08 PM
In other words, I think you might be abusing that animal, so I thought I'd come over here and stick my big fat nose where it doesn't belong. Please hit me in the head as hard as you can.

jAZ
05-30-2002, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by Mr.Grimm


not what i meant...
the men in my neighborhood are all 80. If there is unwanted trouble...it is dealt with. I dont believe that KC was HURTING his dog..he wasnt even outside...the woman had no right to even enter his property. My father raises German shepards and when he was tringing them he would play fight...rough but it was still play...so the dog would learn commands...how do you know what it is your seeing??

Sounds like your arguement is based upon trespassing. If that's the case, then the lady (or me) has 2 options, calling the dog owner, or calling the police. Neither voliates any of the dog owners property rights.

My point is that if I don't think it is intentional abuse, but rather unintentional neglect, I might stop by or call the house and ask if the owner had forgotton about the dog. Or if the owner had realized that it had gotten really hot. Or that the owner had noticed the dog had wound itself around the tree and was choking itself to death...

What ever the scenario.

jAZ
05-30-2002, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Brock Landers
In other words, I think you might be abusing that animal, so I thought I'd come over here and stick my big fat nose where it doesn't belong. Please hit me in the head as hard as you can.

My interpreatation of the situation dictates my response.

1) If I think you are a violent @sshole, and I see you kicking the crap out of your dog, and that you might get violent with me, then I might call the police.

2) If I think you are a good guy and it looks like your dog is out of water on a hot day, I might knock on the door and say 'I was going to bring your dog some water, but didn't want to do it without your permission'. Being a friendly neighbor is better than being that @sshole across the street who always calls the cops first and asks questions later.

3) If I know you, but think you are someone who freaks out when a neighbor knocks on your door and threatens to beat neighbors for tresspassing, and I see that the dog might need water... But I know that you are loving and playful with your dog, I might just call you on the phone.

KS Smitty
05-30-2002, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Justin


What if she was a cop walking his beat, would that change things? Someone who is assigned to investigate potential criminal activity on behalf of society?

We had this happen in our small town this winter. A guy had 5 puppies and an adult dog (not the parent dog). He was giving the puppies away for someone else and since he lived in town he figured it would be easy. Anyway we had a particularly cold day it was 16 with a minus windchill and our city officer saw the puppies outside with frozen water and food and the only shelter was a chair under the porch canopy. She confiscated the puppies, took them to the local vet and issued the guy a notice to appear in court for cruelty to animals. He appeared pled not guilty made the requirements of a court appointed attorney and had a trial. The verdict....not guilty. There was no proof that the animals had suffered any distress in the length of time (4 hours) that they were outside, they were not dehydrated, malnourished or frostbitten/hypothermic. Other than the frozen food/water there was no evidence of mistreatment and when it's that cold he could have been there an hour earlier with fresh food/water and it forze in that length of time. BTW the prosecuting attorney agreed that the not guilty verdict was the correct one.

Brock
05-30-2002, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by Justin
My interpreatation of the situation dictates my response.

To the rest of the world's misfortune, none of your responses included, "I just decided to mind my own goddam business".

Frazod
05-30-2002, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by Brock Landers


To the rest of the world's misfortune, none of your responses included, "I just decided to mind my own goddam business".

Thanks, Brock. You just made me spray tea all over the monitor.

:LOL:

Bastard!

jAZ
05-30-2002, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by KS Smitty


We had this happen in our small town this winter. A guy had 5 puppies and an adult dog (not the parent dog). He was giving the puppies away for someone else and since he lived in town he figured it would be easy. Anyway we had a particularly cold day it was 16 with a minus windchill and our city officer saw the puppies outside with frozen water and food and the only shelter was a chair under the porch canopy. She confiscated the puppies, took them to the local vet and issued the guy a notice to appear in court for cruelty to animals. He appeared pled not guilty made the requirements of a court appointed attorney and had a trial. The verdict....not guilty. There was no proof that the animals had suffered any distress in the length of time (4 hours) that they were outside, they were not dehydrated, malnourished or frostbitten/hypothermic. Other than the frozen food/water there was no evidence of mistreatment and when it's that cold he could have been there an hour earlier with fresh food/water and it forze in that length of time. BTW the prosecuting attorney agreed that the not guilty verdict was the correct one.

So many things to say about this story (great story, btw).

1) IMO the cop did the right thing by intervening. I would have done the same thing.

2) Being found not guilty doesn't mean you aren't guilty.

3) Who knows how much longer the owner would have left the dogs out there. Overnight? Frozen dead puppies would make better evidence, but I am glad the cop didn't wait for better evidence.

Brock
05-30-2002, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by frazod


Thanks, Brock. You just made me spray tea all over the monitor.

:LOL:

Bastard!

I keep Windex handy. How bout you?

Mr Grimm
05-30-2002, 09:27 PM
OK...so if your neighbor calls the cops every time your baby cries because she thinks you neglecting it you wont be pissd???


WHATEVER....

:grr:

Frazod
05-30-2002, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by Brock Landers


I keep Windex handy. How bout you?

I guess I'd better...

ROFL

Mr Grimm
05-30-2002, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by Brock Landers


To the rest of the world's misfortune, none of your responses included, "I just decided to mind my own goddam business".

:LOL: ROFL



PREACH ON!!!!!

jAZ
05-30-2002, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by Brock Landers


To the rest of the world's misfortune, none of your responses included, "I just decided to mind my own goddam business".

First of all, your facts are inaccurate...

Originally posted by Justin
If I am walking by and see something strange (what ever that might be to me), I have 3 choices.

1) approach you and ask questions
2) call the police and let them handle it
3) do nothing

The only wrong answer, IMO, is #3.

The problem is that all of the situations are that I see something WRONG. If I see nothing wrong, I will mind my own damn business. Or if I have enough doubt about what I am seeing, I will mind my own damn business. If that situation is bad enough, I might do something.

This entire disucssion is based upon the scenario where I see something is wrong. And I am giving 3 scenarios when 3 different responses.

For your beneift (and mankinds benefit) I will add a 4th option.

4) If I see nothing wrong, or if I see something, but I think it is my imagination, or if I see something but I have reason to doubt what I see, or if I see something that I don't believe is strange, or, I will mind my own damn business!

5) If I see something but I notice that the dog is midway through chewing through the leash, and it already has the baseball bat ready to beat the crap out of the owner, I might call the police on the dog. But then again, I might just mind my own damn business...

KS Smitty
05-30-2002, 09:33 PM
Justin:
1. The officer was in the "right" as far as her interpretation of the situation went, no doubt there.

2. That's what a court of law is for and in KS Municipal Courts are not trial by jury, all decisions are the judges. (and he was found not guilty)

3. Since I know the guy (and his kids ages 8 & 6) I know he wouldn't have left the puppies to die.

Don't get me wrong I do support the officer for doing what she considered to be her duty, I just hate to see all that taxpayers money wasted on her time, the judges time, the prosecuting and court-appointed defending attorneys time and the court clerk. But that's a rant for a different thread.;)

jAZ
05-30-2002, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by Mr.Grimm
OK...so if your neighbor calls the cops every time your baby cries because she thinks you neglecting it you wont be pissd???


WHATEVER....

:grr:

Absolutely... I would. I agree...

However, if my child started screaming like she was being attacked, and the neighbors came by to see if she was alone, or ok, or whatever... I wouldn't be pissed.

Baby Lee
05-30-2002, 09:39 PM
2) Being found not guilty doesn't mean you aren't guilty.
That's total BS. Like it or not, the decisions made in a court of law are the standards by which we live. This guy was found not guilty under the law in place. If you disagree, you are imposing your judgment, which, excuse me, I couldn't give a flying flip about.
To give credence to this line of reasoning gives license to abortion protestors who say "even if a court of law won't convict you, you are GUILTY of killing babies." It gives license to mobs who say "even though those cops who beat Rodney King were acquitted they're guilty as can be."
If that sentiment is given voice and nothing else, that's one thing. If that sentiment leads, as it so often does, to action, well we have seen the consequences.

KS Smitty
05-30-2002, 09:40 PM
But Phil's "baby" wasn't even whining let alone crying so what would make "you" think it was being abused/neglected?. Other than you don't see any water out for it?

jAZ
05-30-2002, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by KS Smitty
Don't get me wrong I do support the officer for doing what she considered to be her duty, I just hate to see all that taxpayers money wasted on her time, the judges time, the prosecuting and court-appointed defending attorneys time and the court clerk. But that's a rant for a different thread.;)

I completely agree! With everything you said...

And if, instead of a cop it was me (your friendly neighbor), and instead of calling the cops the I just knock on the door and point out that the water is frozen and the puppies are unprotected.

Problem solved. Unless I get beat up for doing so. Then I call the cops.

jAZ
05-30-2002, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by Baby Lee

That's total BS. Like it or not, the decisions made in a court of law are the standards by which we live. This guy was found not guilty under the law in place. If you disagree, you are imposing your judgment, which, excuse me, I couldn't give a flying flip about.
To give credence to this line of reasoning gives license to abortion protestors who say "even if a court of law won't convict you, you are GUILTY of killing babies." It gives license to mobs who say "even though those cops who beat Rodney King were acquitted they're guilty as can be."
If that sentiment is given voice and nothing else, that's one thing. If that sentiment leads, as it so often does, to action, well we have seen the consequences.

I don't think we are in disagreement. I am simply pointing out the difference between someone doing something (commiting a crime) and being able to prove that they did something.

There is a difference.

The fact is I am typing this, but there isn't any proof that my wife isn't typing under my name.

However, the person was found NOT GUILTY and should be treated as such.

jAZ
05-30-2002, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by KS Smitty
But Phil's "baby" wasn't even whining let alone crying so what would make "you" think it was being abused/neglected?. Other than you don't see any water out for it?

Again, I agree... see post #64 for more explaination... :)

Mr Grimm
05-30-2002, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Justin


Absolutely... I would. I agree...

However, if my child started screaming like she was being attacked, and the neighbors came by to see if she was alone, or ok, or whatever... I wouldn't be pissed.


BUT if they were RANTING when they arrived.......

stevieray
05-30-2002, 09:47 PM
"We live in a different world now".


Not the old one where people knew what was right and wrong all by themselves.

Thought the dog might need water?, put a bowl out and go on your way...the second you knock on the door, it ceases to be about the dog.

KCWolfman
05-30-2002, 09:48 PM
Again Justin- If you expect an animal abuser to become threatening and possibly violent, why would you walk up to his door?

What powers do you have that the police don't?

jAZ
05-30-2002, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by Mr.Grimm



BUT if they were RANTING when they arrived.......

This thread has gotten really long, so I am not suprised that this point is lost, but I don't think the Ranting is the way to handle the converstaion. Sounds like she might have issues.

But just because she said the wrong things when the door was opened, doesn't mean that she was wrong for going to the door.

Again, if I saw a problem and if I chose to go to the door would likely say something less confrontational... Such as "hey Phil... I saw your dog looking a little thirsty, and I didn't know how log it had been out here, but it has gotten pretty hot out here... I was thinking out bringing a bowl of water over, but didn't want to without taking to you first..."

jAZ
05-30-2002, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by KCWolfman
Again Justin- If you expect an animal abuser to become threatening and possibly violent, why would you walk up to his door?

What powers do you have that the police don't?

Again KC -

Originally posted by Justin
1) If I think you are a violent @sshole, and I see you kicking the crap out of your dog, and that you might get violent with me, then I might call the police.

jAZ
05-30-2002, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by stevieray
...the second you knock on the door, it ceases to be about the dog.

Good point.

Phobia
05-30-2002, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by tommykat
HOWEVER, next time just put water out.


I've put water out for the knucklehead in the past. He won't touch it. If I were to put water out, it wouldn't be for him, it would be for the nosey old beeatch. Sorry, I'm not interested in appeasing her. I know my dog and I've kept him alive and healthy for 2+ years. ;)

I'm shocked this thread drew 100 responses.

jAZ
05-30-2002, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Phobia
I'm shocked this thread drew 100 responses.

I take the blame... 25 of these posts are mine... most of the rest are people disagreeing with me. I was even called a socialist (i think)... I am suprised I haven't been called Denise yet, but people seem to be holding back their true feelings...

Actually I think we might have converged to some degree. I don't see that we are all far apart on this point. I think or opinions are mild shades of gray that we are seeing as black and white.

Either way, I am tired of the Plant for today...

KS Smitty
05-30-2002, 10:17 PM
It was a good debate Justin. And I certainly agree with the shades of gray comment. ;)

Bricky
05-30-2002, 10:25 PM
If she walked up to the door via the driveway or sidewalk, then she didn't trespass as that is how anyone would approach the house. If she didn't leave when asked, she is trespassing. If she walked out into the yard and picked up the dog, she trespassed.

If she walked into the yard, picked up the dog and brought it to the door, I would call the humane society and report her for animal cruelty. The dog will probably be scarred for life after having a complete stranger picking it up and carrying it around. ;)

Skip Towne
05-30-2002, 10:52 PM
Incidentally, Justin, it is obvious you are not an attorney. Neither am I. But earlier in this thread you kept quoting "direct evidence". I'm not sure you understand the difference between direct evidence and circumstantial evidence. You stated bruises on a child are direct evidence of abuse. Nope, I don't think so. If you had seen a parent inflict those bruises, then yes, that is "direct evidence". But the bruises themselves would be circumstantial at best in proving abuse.

jAZ
05-30-2002, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by Skip Towne
Incidentally, Justin, it is obvious you are not an attorney. Neither am I. But earlier in this thread you kept quoting "direct evidence". I'm not sure you understand the difference between direct evidence and circumstantial evidence. You stated bruises on a child are direct evidence of abuse. Nope, I don't think so. If you had seen a parent inflict those bruises, then yes, that is "direct evidence". But the bruises themselves would be circumstantial at best in proving abuse.

I didn't intend to use legal terms. I meant direct evidence as visible, physical, documentable evidence... as opposed to a situation of "he said, she said"...

As I was typing that, I realized this confusion might come up, sorry for not being more clear...

jAZ
05-30-2002, 10:59 PM
Btw, none of this dicussion applies to a court room environment. All of this is to determine if I would take action (ie, ask more questions, intervene, call police, DO NOTHING, etc)...

Michael Michigan
05-30-2002, 11:05 PM
Justin-

As you are in North Nogales you realize just down the road that folks are not only abusing little dogs, but killing them...

and shoving them into burritos.

Taco

jAZ
05-30-2002, 11:07 PM
Just got back from Rocky Point and there you go, getting me drooling for those "Carne" Asada Taco trucks... mmmm, taco truck.

Michael Michigan
05-30-2002, 11:10 PM
Don't you mean

Canine Asada?

:D

jAZ
05-30-2002, 11:11 PM
The only spanish words you need to know in Mexico, IMO: "Carne (Canine) Asada Taco, con Queso, con Limon"

Chiefs Pantalones
05-30-2002, 11:14 PM
Sounds like to me that that the artist formerly known as Kphobia is a dog neglecter person.

You bon of a sitch!!!!!:D

Frazod
05-30-2002, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by Justin
The only spanish words you need to know in Mexico, IMO: "Carne (Canine) Asada Taco, con Queso, con Limon"

You forgot cerveza fria. That got me through a couple of dozen port visits in Spain.

:BLVD:

Michael Michigan
05-30-2002, 11:16 PM
más tequila

jAZ
05-30-2002, 11:18 PM
After enough tacos and cerveza, "Donde Esta El Bano"

Michael Michigan
05-30-2002, 11:19 PM
fraz--

mmmmm beer

:toast:

Frazod
05-30-2002, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by Michael Michigan
fraz--

mmmmm beer

:toast:

In my youth.

Now it's mmmmmm scotch

:toast:

Hydrae
05-31-2002, 12:07 AM
Just for my $.02, I would lean towards agreeing with Justin. I understand Phil being unhappy with the lady especially given her approach to the situation. I would prefer to have her knock on my door though than call some form of authority. Once you get them involved the crap starts!

alanm
05-31-2002, 05:08 AM
If she walked up to the door via the driveway or sidewalk, then she didn't trespass as that is how anyone would approach the house.

Quite right. It's called public access. But that ends as soon as you step on the first step to the front door. The driveway is another matter. If the sidewalk crosses the driveway one must stay confined to that area. If one ventures down the driveway approaching the house that's considered private property. The area from the sidewalk to the street in the driveway is considered public access. Don't ask me why. ****ing stupid laws and Lawyers are the bane of the earth. And I'm in Law Enforcement:D

Saggysack
05-31-2002, 06:26 AM
OH NO!!!! for all evil is a bogey (http://www.innerself.com/Creating_Realities/bogey_man.htm)
T
he Bogey-dog was a devil derived from the Slavic bog, "god." English cognates were bugabow, bugaboo, bugbear and boggle-bo which used to designate the pagan image carried in a procession to the May Day games. "Humbug" came from the Norse hum, "night," plus bog or bogey, i. e., a night spirit. The word "bug," from the Welsh bwg, "spirit," was applied to insects because of the old belief that insects were souls in search of rebirth. A mantis was a soul of the seer or wizard. A butterfly was Psyche, or a Female Soul.

let's take a look at this evil dog here (http://www.pcisys.net/~rnelson/bogey.html)

And for the Planet Bogey fans (http://www.geocities.com/weilbody/bogart/welcome.htm)

Phil you seem to have changed ...WTF happened to your hair? (http://www.d-dog.com/bogey.htm)

Mile High Mania
05-31-2002, 07:17 AM
Wow... it must be the offseason. I vote to make Bogey the Chiefsplanet Mascot.

Hey - next time watch for the lady, then put your dog back out there before she reaches your house. When she knocks on the door, answer the door buck naked with a jar of mayonaise in one hand and a Victoria Secrets catalog in the other.

That should shut her up...

Iron Chef
05-31-2002, 07:40 AM
Side Bar


"I'm interrupted from my intense internet browsing" = PORN

Iowanian
05-31-2002, 08:42 AM
What on earth would this lady do if she walked through a Korean district and saw witnessed them skinning the poor Puppy.....for dinner like a chicken.

Originally posted by Justin
This discussion isn't about the particulars of Phil's case. We all seem to know enough about him to ASSUME his story is true. I make case, I am agruing with the following more boadly stated points...

These statements get me in the mood to fight back. This retoric sounds a lot like "keep outa my business, I will beat/starve my dog, child, wife as I see fit... If you don't like what I do, don't look... I own the damn house, not you.

ooooohhhhh MUFASSA!!!!

I thought about this last night as my old lady neighbors dog barked while she let it out to crap...To my Knowledge, not ONE of our farm dogs has EVER been in the house....they're outside all of the time..exposed to possibilities of being hit by cars, bitten by coyotes(which happends) kicked by cattle, shot by neighbors, drinking anti-freeze and many other hazards....do I feel bad? Not one bit....They are dogs, not people. Are they fed and watered? Yes, Do they recieve affection? Yes, when they deserve some, or someone comes home. DO they get kicked if they chase cattle or snap at friends? Yes, and the last one got a .22 mag slug to the head.

I'd be willing to bet that my family knows more about care of animals in general than most any tree hugging, animal rights cracktovist.

Justin, Come on down and tell me about it....I'd probably be inclined to do a Benny Thompson, and pee on your leg.

Dogs are tough and resilent animals...they are SUPPOSED to be outside.

jAZ
05-31-2002, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by Iowanian
Justin, Come on down and tell me about it....I'd probably be inclined to do a Benny Thompson, and pee on your leg.

Dogs are tough and resilent animals...they are SUPPOSED to be outside.

Like I said... people are taking shades of gray and making them out to be black and white. My argument was NEVER that a dog should not be outside. How stupid would that be.

Its about the gray, fuzzy thing called "abuse". And if I am walking by and I observe something that I view as "abuse", I could make one of several decisions.

Walking through a subdivision and walking down a farm road, I would likely expect to see a couple of different ways to treat a dog. Those factors are what makes this thing so fuzzy. If I see a guy in the city trying to force his dog to chase cars and trucks in the street, that might be abuse. But replace city with farm, and replace cars with cattle, and its not abuse.

Iowanian, your definition of abuse might not be the same as mine. I don't care about that. My point is that is that if at somepoint you see something you think is abuse, I would think you might do something.

That all that I am saying. People have been arguing with me over the definition of abuse, and what level it would take to get them to take action. People have been arguing over the proper definition of action. People have been arguing over dog vs child abuse.

I don't care, they are the factors that make this arguement gray. My point is simply this...

If I think it is abuse... I shouldn't turn the other cheek.

nothing more, nothing less

Dartgod
05-31-2002, 09:50 AM
In this situation though the lady knew that the dog had not been out very long and unless she just moved in, she also was probably aware of Phil's habit of leaving the dog out until it barked to come in. My guess is, she just wanted to be a nosey b!tch and should have stayed out of it.

Rain Man
05-31-2002, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by Mile High Mania
Hey - next time watch for the lady, then put your dog back out there before she reaches your house. When she knocks on the door, answer the door buck naked with a jar of mayonnaise in one hand and a Victoria Secrets catalog in the other.

That should shut her up...

I don't know. Don't you think he should try something different next time?

Iowanian
05-31-2002, 10:04 AM
If she was so concerned about this "abuser"...shouldn't she have been worried that he'd drag her inside, put her in the basement systern/well.

"It puts the lotion on the skin, or else it gets the hose again"

I had a neighbor that came outside everytime I mow/etc...stood at the property line and waited for me to stop...and then proceeded to biactch about everything in the neighborhood...I finally told them that none of the neighbors bother me...I don't stand watching everything out my window, mind my business and nothing bothers me....don't watch so much and it won't bother you"....they don't bother me anymore.


I'm sure my definition of abuse is different....
Things I consider abuse
Lighting dog on fire
Starving for several days
locking up in closed cage w/ no food or water
Pit fighting
Putting sweaters and seasonal hats on animals

Not abuse
Tieing outside
kicking once for misbehavior(tough love has made some great and loyal dogs for friends and family)
letting them kill wild animals..cats, bunnys, birds.
Leaving outside for 30 minutes.

You do have the right to stick your nose in other peoples business if you choose.....as long as they have the right to break it for you when you falsely accuse them of something.

I'm tender to this topic...When I was 17, I was accused and arrested for lighting a teacher's dog on fire with a hair spray torch........The problem was, I was 5 miles away and had 3 solid witnessesAND HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!!...I'd been tangling with the lady for weeks and was the first "small town-he done it" suspect.......I had absolutely nothing to do with that...but am still accused of it today because "people heard" that I did it.....I had people come up to me at my job, at gas stations etc....bitching me out....for something I didn't do......I found out the kids that did it, not the police.......SO the other side of the story is that Animal activists DO cause problems for INNOCENT folks.

FACTS. Lighting a dog on fire is abuse and shold be punished
One should be damn sure someone is an abuser before one makes accusations.
:cuss: :cuss:

Phobia
05-31-2002, 12:17 PM
I'm preparing to let my dog out again. Wish me luck.

papasmurf
05-31-2002, 12:19 PM
Put out some water Phil.;)

Mile High Mania
05-31-2002, 12:19 PM
what's the number for 911...

Mile High Mania
05-31-2002, 12:20 PM
Put the water about 2 inches beyond the length of the chain... see what happens. Then if you see her, walk out with a stick as if you're going to discipline young Bogey.

Phobia
05-31-2002, 12:22 PM
Actually, I'm doing an experiment. When I put Bogey out, I stopped drinking water. I'm going to determine if we can both survive 45 minutes without a drink.

Mile High Mania
05-31-2002, 12:23 PM
Damn... you're a wildman.

Mile High Mania
05-31-2002, 12:24 PM
Actually, you should chain yourself to the tree and put your dog in the window... then when she walks by yell "Are you happy, lady? Bogey reveresed the whip and put me on the tree... can you help me???"

Lzen
05-31-2002, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Mile High Mania
Actually, you should chain yourself to the tree and put your dog in the window... then when she walks by yell "Are you happy, lady? Bogey reveresed the whip and put me on the tree... can you help me???"

LMAO!! :D :D :D

papasmurf
05-31-2002, 12:25 PM
Phil, I hope you aren't inside in the AC. That would be cheating.

pink
05-31-2002, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by frazod
God, how ridiculous.

If the dog had been out there all day, barking and whimpering, in obvious distress, that would be one thing. Clearly it wasn't.


thank you. he calmly sits there like a lion outside his den, LOVING the sunshine, and barks a few times when he is ready to come in, unless we bring him in sooner. and what about the dogs that actually LIVE outside? jeesh. freakin' getoffme.

bkkcoh
05-31-2002, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Mile High Mania
Actually, you should chain yourself to the tree and put your dog in the window... then when she walks by yell "Are you happy, lady? Bogey reveresed the whip and put me on the tree... can you help me???"


That might be crossing over to the darker side of his personality, do you really want to envision him with a dog collar and such on.... not me ROFL

headsnap
05-31-2002, 12:45 PM
this stupid BIATCH probably pays some mexicans to mow her yard, and I bet that she has never offered them a drink of water!:cuss:

Phobia
05-31-2002, 12:50 PM
The dog has been outside for 35 minutes and he just sounded the "I wanna come in" bark.

I did manage to replentish his fluids through an IV and he seems to be doing well, now.

Thanks to all for their concern.

Mile High Mania
05-31-2002, 12:53 PM
Only 35 minutes.... damn, you're p-whipped.




(puppy whipped)

papasmurf
05-31-2002, 12:54 PM
What about the neighbor?

pink
05-31-2002, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by stevieray
Thought the dog might need water?, put a bowl out and go on your way...the second you knock on the door, it ceases to be about the dog.

very good point.

ChiTown
05-31-2002, 01:00 PM
Phil/Pink

I think it's disgraceful that you don't catheterize your dog, and surgically supply him with a colostomay(sp?) bag. How can you make your pup go outside to use the bathroom. BASTARD!:cuss:

pink
05-31-2002, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by Mile High Mania
When she knocks on the door, answer the door buck naked with a jar of mayonaise in one hand and a Victoria Secrets catalog in the other.

Scary thing is, that is not far from what Phob would already be doing ... ;)

pink
05-31-2002, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by bkkcoh
That might be crossing over to the darker side of his personality, do you really want to envision him with a dog collar and such on.... not me ROFL

i have pictures ... any bids? :D

ptlyon
05-31-2002, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Iowanian
Things I consider abuse
Lighting dog on fire

"No, really, he likes it when I light his tail on fire. Then he runs in circles like that to catch it."

Iowanian
05-31-2002, 01:14 PM
I've heard that a cat doused in gasoline, and lit on fire sounds just like a big dog...

"WOOOOF"


but I've never witnessed it to be sure.

shakesthecat
05-31-2002, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by Iowanian
I've heard that a cat doused in gasoline, and lit on fire sounds just like a big dog...

"WOOOOF"


but I've never witnessed it to be sure.



Note to self:
Hide cats and all flamable liqiuds, next time Iowanian stops over.;)

ENDelt260
02-02-2005, 02:18 PM
Man, you should really take that dog out of the heat. This is what happened to mine when I left them out too long.

:D :D :D
That's f*cked up.

Count Alex's Losses
02-02-2005, 02:51 PM
Phobia used to be so funny.

Darkwolfe
02-02-2005, 02:57 PM
Note to self:
Hide cats and all flamable liqiuds, next time Iowanian stops over.;)


Nah, I'll just let Merlin (18 pound feline) explain it to him. Heh heh...

CosmicPal
02-02-2005, 03:09 PM
When I was a teenager, my brittany spaniel, Reggie, who was the kewlest dog around was left out in our backyard. It was 105 degrees that day. I asked my mom if I could let him in because he was going crazy out there, but my mother said no....Anyways, he died from the heat that day.

We never put another dog on the chain again....

Count Alex's Losses
02-02-2005, 03:10 PM
When I was a teenager, my brittany spaniel, Reggie, who was the kewlest dog around was left out in our backyard. It was 105 degrees that day. I asked my mom if I could let him in because he was going crazy out there, but my mother said no....Anyways, he died from the heat that day.

We never put another dog on the chain again....

Guh! What a horrible story!

:(

CosmicPal
02-02-2005, 03:18 PM
Guh! What a horrible story!

:(

Yep....had a story published about the event. It was both funny and heartbreaking. I was like 12 yrs old at the time....Reggie had a problem with running inside the house and knocking things over and my mom had had it with things getting broken. I must have called her fifty times that day while she was working. Figured, the more I called the more likely she'd give in. But, she was persistent.

I remember the last call I made to her, I was so freakin' mad- "Gawd, I hate you!" Of course, I didn't and I've never said that to her before. She then left the office early and found me out in the backyard hosing down my dog, trying to cool him off and force feeding him water- when you're 12 and desperate, you'll try anything...

Mom felt absolutely terrible about the whole incident and tried to make it up to me by taking me to dinner, a movie, and letting me buy whatever I wanted in the record store....And, we agreed we would never chain another dog up again.

Count Alex's Losses
02-02-2005, 03:21 PM
Yep....had a story published about the event. It was both funny and heartbreaking. I was like 12 yrs old at the time....Reggie had a problem with running inside the house and knocking things over and my mom had had it with things getting broken. I must have called her fifty times that day while she was working. Figured, the more I called the more likely she'd give in. But, she was persistent.

I remember the last call I made to her, I was so freakin' mad- "Gawd, I hate you!" Of course, I didn't and I've never said that to her before. She then left the office early and found me out in the backyard hosing down my dog, trying to cool him off and force feeding him water- when you're 12 and desperate, you'll try anything...

Mom felt absolutely terrible about the whole incident and tried to make it up to me by taking me to dinner, a movie, and letting me buy whatever I wanted in the record store....And, we agreed we would never chain another dog up again.

Man...I would have just let the dog in.

Something like that would have traumatized me for awhile....

Sounds like you are over it.

Lzen
02-02-2005, 03:27 PM
Yep....had a story published about the event. It was both funny and heartbreaking. I was like 12 yrs old at the time....Reggie had a problem with running inside the house and knocking things over and my mom had had it with things getting broken. I must have called her fifty times that day while she was working. Figured, the more I called the more likely she'd give in. But, she was persistent.

I remember the last call I made to her, I was so freakin' mad- "Gawd, I hate you!" Of course, I didn't and I've never said that to her before. She then left the office early and found me out in the backyard hosing down my dog, trying to cool him off and force feeding him water- when you're 12 and desperate, you'll try anything...

Mom felt absolutely terrible about the whole incident and tried to make it up to me by taking me to dinner, a movie, and letting me buy whatever I wanted in the record store....And, we agreed we would never chain another dog up again.

I don't understand. Did you wait until he looked like he was dying before you started to give him water? I mean, I've worked out in 100 degree heat. You're fine as long as you keep yourself filled with fluids.

CosmicPal
02-02-2005, 03:54 PM
I don't understand. Did you wait until he looked like he was dying before you started to give him water? I mean, I've worked out in 100 degree heat. You're fine as long as you keep yourself filled with fluids.

Geez...it's been so long ago. But, I was playing baseball in our front yard with some friends during the day, every 20 mins we'd walk into the house and I'd see the dog out back furiously jumping up and down, and each time- I'd call my mom to ask if I could let him in.

It wasn't until a couple of hours later when my sister, who was home as well, came running out the front door crying. It was evident something very bad had happened, and that's when my friends and I ran around the back and saw Reggie lying there...It was the absolute worst feeling in the world- it was brutal.

The situation was that Reggie was in big trouble with his disobedience around the house and my parents ordered him on the leash. I was devastated because I was honoring my parents request, but at the same time was afraid the dog was in danger, but I was only 12, and I didn't know.....Trust me, I didn't listen to my parents very much for awhile after that.

Iowanian
02-02-2005, 03:56 PM
WOOOOOOF




Damn, iowanian was funny 2 years ago.

Lzen
02-02-2005, 04:01 PM
Geez...it's been so long ago. But, I was playing baseball in our front yard with some friends during the day, every 20 mins we'd walk into the house and I'd see the dog out back furiously jumping up and down, and each time- I'd call my mom to ask if I could let him in.

It wasn't until a couple of hours later when my sister, who was home as well, came running out the front door crying. It was evident something very bad had happened, and that's when my friends and I ran around the back and saw Reggie lying there...It was the absolute worst feeling in the world- it was brutal.

The situation was that Reggie was in big trouble with his disobedience around the house and my parents ordered him on the leash. I was devastated because I was honoring my parents request, but at the same time was afraid the dog was in danger, but I was only 12, and I didn't know.....Trust me, I didn't listen to my parents very much for awhile after that.

Sry man, I don't mean to keep picking at you. I'm just saying if you were home, why not keep giving him water all day rather than watching him jumping up and down from inside your house?

CosmicPal
02-02-2005, 04:07 PM
Sry man, I don't mean to keep picking at you. I'm just saying if you were home, why not keep giving him water all day rather than watching him jumping up and down from inside your house?

Lzen, we did...

I do remember when we took his lifeless body into the vet, the vet told my mother that they had had some twenty pets in already that day. It was a scorcher that day. Half a dozen elderly people died that day as well.

Lzen
02-02-2005, 04:13 PM
Lzen, we did...

I do remember when we took his lifeless body into the vet, the vet told my mother that they had had some twenty pets in already that day. It was a scorcher that day. Half a dozen elderly people died that day as well.

That is a sad story. I'm guessing then, that there was no shade for him. Was your dog an older dog? Or perhaps something else that helped contribute?

Calcountry
02-02-2005, 04:32 PM
I hate people that take it upon themselves to become "dog police."Tell me about it.

I live it every day. My friggin employees wonder why I am such an ass when it comes to keeping the rat cages clean, and I mean clean.

Dayze
02-02-2005, 10:33 PM
tell her
"thanks for the advice; but....how did you manage to get off of your chain"?

Ari Chi3fs
02-02-2005, 11:45 PM
Im really shocked that Phobia would tie Pink to a tree like that WITHOUT water. :shake:

Inspector
02-02-2005, 11:58 PM
I would never leave my dog out in hot weather.

What I prefer is to keep them out when it's below zero.

They grind up easier in the food processor when frozen a little.

Manila-Chief
02-03-2005, 05:08 AM
I would never leave my dog out in hot weather.

What I prefer is to keep them out when it's below zero.

They grind up easier in the food processor when frozen a little.

No freezing weather here but up in the Northern areas of the country they eat "real hot dogs."