View Full Version : I need some FFL opinions, please.

08-22-2000, 08:46 AM
Here are the DooDahLite Engineers

1. Brad Johnson, Was QB
2. Jeff Blake, NO QB
3. Troy Aikman, Dal QB
4. Michael Bishop, NE QB
5. Tyrone Wheatley, Oak RB
6. Warrick Dunn, TB RB
7. Leroy Hoard, Min RB
8. Mike Cloud, KC RB
9. Keyshawn Johnson, TB WR
10. Torry Holt, StL WR
11. Joe Horn, NO WR
12. Dez White, Chi WR
13. Tony Gonzalez, KC TE
14. Byron Chamberlain, Den TE
15. Rod Woodson, Bal DB
16. James Hasty, KC DB
17. Tony Brackens, Jac DL
18. Warren Sapp, TB DL
19. Jason Elam, Den K
20. Brett Conway, Was K

I received an offer to trade Marvin Harrison, Freddie Jones and Junior Seau for Keyshawn Johnson, Tony Gonzalez and Warren Sapp. I see these issues:

1. Harrison for Johnson is a winner for me.
2. Jones for Gonzalez is a loser for me.
3. Seau for Sapp is probably a non-factor for FFL.
4. Gonzalez will likely be double-teamed this season.
5. Johson will likely be double-teamed this season.

On balance, this looks like a good trade for the DooDahLite Engineers. I am still considering the proposal, but I would appreciate some objective critique of my reasoning.

hesitant to let go of Gonzo, but drools over Harrison.<BR>

08-22-2000, 08:53 AM
Looks like a pretty even trade, but you do lose out on the Freddie Jones. TE's after Tony REALLY drop off in FFL point production.

I would be so quick to throw out Keyshawn either. Opposite J. Green, it's going to give the D's fits.

08-22-2000, 08:58 AM
I would say NEVER trade Gonzo but you have Chamberlain. Chamberlain is a slight dropoff but is Harrison that much more of a FFL player than KJ? That's a very tough and valid question considering the change of venue for KJ this year. Only time will tell. I'd be inclined to go with what you have. Count-offer Chamberlain.

You are correct about the DL being a non-factor. In fact, I would get rid of them. Play LB & DB's on defense only. If memory serves, only 4 or 5 DL averaged above 8 ppg last year. 20+ LB & DB's averaged that. Play only LB w/ 100+ tackles in past seasons and you should do fine on D.

08-22-2000, 09:03 AM

Yeah, but with Grbac zeroing in on Gonzo, how long before teams double-team and force Grbac to beat them with WRs? There is no doubt that Gonzo is a far superior TE, but I expect his production to drop as teams sell out to shut down our primary threat.

Of course, teams will try and shut Harrison down, but there is Manning in the backfield. I get a much fuzzier feeling from that thought than from Grbac.

pondering his options.<BR>

08-22-2000, 09:07 AM

The same argument applies in Tampa. Johnson Vs Harrison is not the mismatch of Gonzalez Vs Jones, but one guy has Manning tossing the rock to him.

really wants Manning as QB.<BR>

08-22-2000, 09:09 AM
Dream on Gaz... Manning is not being offered. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

08-22-2000, 09:22 AM
Grbac zeroed in on Gonzo all year in '99. He still produced. Gonzo & Walls will by far be the best TE's this year. Followed by Sharpe & Chamberlain. IMHO.

08-22-2000, 09:30 AM

Look for Walls to have a down year...with all the WR problems that Carolina is having look for Beuerlein to go to Walls more often. Teams will double up on him, but unlike Gonzalez he won't produce. Plus he has a tendency to have injuries that don't keep him out of the game, but slow his effectiveness.


IMO, nix the trade...it's not in your best interests.


"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

08-22-2000, 09:36 AM

I agree, Walls won't have as strong a year as '99. However, he's always been in the top 5 TE producers in the league no matter how bad Carolina's O has been. I don't expect that to change.... Carolina's WR's are much like Denver's. They can plug anybody with *some* talent in and they'll put up numbers. Jeffers isn't a superstar but he sure put up superstar #'s in the second half of '99.

08-22-2000, 09:37 AM

The only reason I am considering it is because of the guys throwing the ball. With Johnson and Gonzalez I have average QBs on teams with one go-to guy. With Harrison I get Manning for a pitcher. It is tempting…

still mulling it over.<BR>

08-22-2000, 09:47 AM

I like the trade. Jones is not that bad of a TE, plus you have the "sleeper" that I would love to have on a FFL roster in Leaf throwing to him. Your analysis on the attention Gonzo is going to receive with our young receivers seems right on yhe money also, as does your who is throwing the rock analysis. Make the trade, and see if you can pick up Leaf for Bishop and you are set.

08-22-2000, 09:47 AM

I can see your point...but for some oreason I just feel that Manning & Co. aren't going to have the year that they did last year.


The other knock that would make me hesitate to take Walls is that he and Beuerlein have a great rapport....Beuerlein knows Walls well and Walls knows what the QB expects from him. But Beuerlein is starting to show his age and is getting knicked a little more. If he goes down, the back-up QB's for the Panthers make Elvis look like Dan Marino.


"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

Lurker Brett
08-22-2000, 12:07 PM
gaz, my .02

I watched a little of Johnson last week. I think he had 4 catches in the first half alone. He looked productive.

You can bet defenses this year will do a little more work trying to stop Harrison. Other then E'ggerin I don't think there is another go to guy for Indy.

My Denver friends say Chamberlain won't play all the time. Freddie Jones has just plain sucked lately.

Seau won't be quite as good this year W/O Bush.

I guess I am saying if it were me I'd say no.

08-22-2000, 12:17 PM


Marvin and Keyshawn will both be double covered big time, result: EVEN

Keyshawn has ALWAYS been double covered, this will be Marvin's first exposure to such attention, result: KEYSHAWN

Manning vs. King, result: DUH!

Who will line up opposite each guy to take the pressure off? Tampa has JGreen, AHastings(not spectacular). Indy has ... uh..., result: KEYSHAWN

When the pressure is on, it is often who wants it more(read-ATTITUDE), result: KEYSHAWN

IMO, this is the key swap in the deal, with you already holding the better cards in the other two. I agree w/ Mark, Indy will take a step back this year until they get a legit #2 Wr or superstar Te, neither of which they have.

Bad deal all the way around for DoodahLite!


08-22-2000, 12:54 PM
Yeah, but…

· Manning to Harrison.
· King to Johnson.
· Grbac to Gonzalez.

Manning is the factor that makes this deal potentially palatable. In each case, the receiver is the primary target and is going to draw the attention and ire of the opposing D.

Which of these QBs is more likely to get the ball to the receiver? The receivers can’t catch and throw it too, you know…

opening an old wound.

[This message has been edited by Gaz (edited 08-22-2000).]

08-22-2000, 01:04 PM
Let's give ratings of those combos.

Manning to Harrison - A+
King to KJohnson - B
Grbac to Gonzales - B+
Leaf to Jones - D

consider the averages.


08-22-2000, 01:10 PM

Now THAT was an excellent illustration of a concept.


08-22-2000, 01:23 PM
Pleased to see you're starting to see things my way, gaz. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/wink.gif

Now the only questions are:

What ratings would you give the combos?
And what would the swap of Sapp for Seau do to balance it?

Someone said that DLmen aren't as valuable as LBers and DBs. I don't know the specific scoring in the league, but I'd venture to say that Sapp is one of the more valuable DLmen.


[This message has been edited by coryt (edited 08-22-2000).]

08-22-2000, 01:31 PM

I have Brackens and Sapp, so I am loaded with DL talent. Brackens and Seau would not be a bad combo, so that is not a deal-breaker.

Jones for Gonzalez is a no-brainer, but I expect Gonzo’s production to drop unless Grbac learns to recognize the other receivers on the team. He is boring in on Gonzalez big time. So Gonzalez should still score more points than Jones, but not to the degree you would anticipate. Of course, I don’t really expect Leaf to continue his winning ways, either…

It is the Manning/Harrison combo that is SO seductive. But is Harrison [and a phantom Manning] worth a trade down at DL & TE? Probably not.

wrestling with the allure of Manning.<BR>

08-22-2000, 01:35 PM

I think King has a lot to prove before I would give him a B. I know Johnson raises the score a bit, but King is untested as The Man.

And Leaf has the physical ability to be better than a D, but I expect his head to come unscrewed any moment. He will not doubt live down to that grade before the season is out.

The other two are just about right, IMO. Though the Grbac/Gonzalez grade will plummet if Grbac doesn’t spread the ball around. I’m sure it’s a serious boost for his confidence to have Gonzo out there, but he MUST start looking at the WRs.

prepared for a grade adjustment on Grbac.<BR>

08-22-2000, 01:36 PM
sigh... http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Clearl you are struggling with one of the true questions of life...sucks to be you! http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/tongue.gif

Best of Luck!!

If I were in your league I might be inclined to offer you Fred Taylor for Wheatley and Holt. Whatcha think?


08-22-2000, 01:39 PM
BTW, did you know Hoard is no longer in Minnesota? In fact, he ain't signed with anyone yet.

Just thought I'd let you know in case you didn't already.


08-22-2000, 01:40 PM
Gaz, I assume you are in a sandbox league. FWIW, you don't HAVE to carry defensive linemen on your roster. You can start 3 DB's or 3 LB's. For the sake of your team, consider (or at least research) my contention that DL doesn't score many fantasy points. You need active, get to the ball type LB's & DB's to score on defense using Sandbox's scoring system.... You'll thank me later. I promise.

08-22-2000, 01:41 PM
Just for informative purposes, what is the defensive scoring in sandbox.



08-22-2000, 01:42 PM

As you pointed out, it sometimes sucks to be me…

very weak in the RB department.<BR>

08-22-2000, 01:44 PM
Cory: Sandbox scoring for defense is:

What Gaz said above.

[This message has been edited by KCTitus (edited 08-22-2000).]

08-22-2000, 01:46 PM
Scoring Method Points
TD 6
PAT (rushing, receiving or passing) 2
PAT (kicking) 1
Safety 4
Field Goal 3
Field Goal (over 50 yards) 1
Every 15 yards Rushing/Receiving 1
Every 50 yards Passing/Returning 1
Fumble -3
Interception (thrown) -3
Interception (caught) 3
Fumble Recovery 3
Sack 2
Solo Tackle 1
Forced Fumble 2
Blocked Kick (punt, field goal or PAT) 2
Pass Defended 1
Defensive Linemen hit the holes and go for the ball when it's behind the line of scrimmage. They feast on a team's running backs. A team's fantasy points from Running Backs will be penalized by 10% for each DL starting against them. Of course, a Lineman isn't very effective in the secondary and will usually get burned any day of the week. A team's fantasy points from Wide Receivers will receive a bonus 10% for every DL started against them. The Defensive Backs are the quick guys who love to do their best Mack truck impression on an unsuspecting Wide Receiver over the middle. They make a living by making the opposing team's air attack useless. A team's fantasy points from their Wide Receivers will be penalized by 10% for each DB starting against them. In order to pester the receivers and watch the QB, most Defensive Backs play off the line and fall into coverage leaving the run stoppage to the big guys up front. A team's fantasy points from Running Backs will receive a bonus 10% for every DB started against them.
The middle men of the game who try to do it all are the Linebackers on defense, and the Tight Ends on offense. The Linebackers don't put a bonus or a penalty on the opposing team's offense. Likewise, Tight Ends do not receive a bonus or a penalty from the defensive athletes started against them. The bonuses and penalties are added up with the rest of your fantasy points each week to determine your total points for the week. And if your points are more than your opponent's you win the game for that week. With three Def. Flex positions and three Off. Flex positions, the coaching goes from the front office to the field. Check out the Scoring Tip Sheet for more details

passing on the rules.<BR>

08-22-2000, 01:49 PM

I don't have a clue anymore about sandbox scoring. Disregard any of my statements because I haven't seen any rules changes for sandbox this year.

Loving the edit feature!

[This message has been edited by KPhobia (edited 08-22-2000).]

Bob Dole
08-22-2000, 01:56 PM
Draft all kickers Gaz and then trade for the good players.

08-22-2000, 02:03 PM
Dr. Red-

I accept that advice in the spirit in which I am sure it is intended…

giving it all the consideration it deserves.<BR>

08-22-2000, 02:05 PM
Thanks! I can see that only a select few DLinemen are worth much, but I do see Brackens and Sapp amoung them. Don't see Seau for Sapp much of an upgrade.

I do see Harrison for Keyshawn as an upgrade, but not nearly to the extent of Jones for Gonzales as a SERIOUS downgrade.

Here's the key for me folks, if it ain't an trade obviously in my favor, I pass unless desparate. And please, gaz, I know you can't be desparate already...are you?

I love a good fantasy debate, but it's your call gaz, this is only my opinion. I once traded John Elway for Joe Montana(in KC) straight up. Montana went down shortly there after. HOMERS BEWARE!!


08-22-2000, 06:09 PM
Just another note to consider things on...these are the points per week each player averaged last season on Sandbox:

Keyshawn 8.2
Tony G 8.1
Warren Sapp 4.7

Marvin Harrison 11.4
Freddie Jones 3.8
Junior Seau 7.1

Just another thing to think about...

08-22-2000, 06:32 PM
I can't imagine Tampa not playing Keyshawn because of the $$ invested, but there are reports that his team mates are already put off by his "me" attitude. I'm sure he'll get the **** ball, but it will be interesting to see if he has a negative effect on the team chemistry. Sapp may have to slap him around a bit.

08-22-2000, 07:41 PM

Factor 2 on WR swap is Manning throwing to Harrison vs Eric throwing to Keyshawn.

Freddie Jones is an excellent tight end if Leaf continues to come on, should post 60 reception 8-10 TD and in excess of 750 yards

Like your starting QB (not your backups)
Running backs are a little weak
First two WR are good and like Dez White as backup
TEs are excellent
Kickers are good.
Do not know how you score your defensive players so no comment.
By the way welcome to this BB and only 8 to go before you shed the lurker tag.
Jim Reynolds

Please no squiggles in my discussion zone!

[This message has been edited by Logical (edited 08-22-2000).]

08-22-2000, 09:02 PM
Nice to see Gaz make it over.

Heya Gaz!