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View Full Version : Is Grbac in DENIAL or what??


The Blessed Virgin Larry
08-23-2000, 08:57 AM
"Our No. 1 offense has done the things it's been asked to in preseason," Grbac said.

Is he SERIOUS? Are the Chiefs SERIOUS? The #1 offense has done what it has been asked to do??
WAKE UP and SLAP JR while you're at it! The 1st team has scored 1 TD.

Does this thinking bother anyone else but me?<BR>

Warrior5
08-23-2000, 08:58 AM
Yes, but this is the same Grbac that professed utmost confidence in Bennett as our starting RB in '98 when the fans and the whole league knew it was unlikely to work. It's just media talk IMO, and I took it with a grain of salt. I don't think he believes it either.

Raiderhader
08-23-2000, 09:00 AM
I dont see anything wrong with that quote. Consider who was doing the asking...hint hint...the OC.

Fat Homer
08-23-2000, 09:02 AM
I think you can take that statement in two ways:

1) "Our coordinators are calling a seriously watered-down, vanilla O" (could be construed as an excuse -- but most teams do execute bland Os)

2) "We've done our best with what we've got" (personnel is not up to the task)

I'm in the #1 camp. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/smile.gif

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The Blessed Virgin Larry
08-23-2000, 09:07 AM
HC, (Hard Core is this you?),
I hope that choice #1 is correct, but I do NOT buy into the "surprise factor" at all. I believe that preseason is for getting ready for the season and you should practice how you're going to play. Especially a team that has endured it's share of offensive woes like the Chiefs. By week 3 EVERYONE knows what you're running anyways. Execute the plays perfectly and it doesn't matter. The MORE practice, the better the chances.

Fat Homer
08-23-2000, 09:09 AM
TX - yup, 'tis HardCore. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>but I do NOT buy into the "surprise factor" at all<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can you expand on that a bit... I don't follow. (just now starting my first cup of coffee... so I'm a tad slow at the moment) http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/smile.gif

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ddpatterson
08-23-2000, 09:12 AM
I agree wholeheartedly with Tx. If the Chiefs are opening up the offense, then it will likely take a couple of games to get the timing and chemistry down. Preseason should have been used for this, not the regular season, especially against the likes of Indy and the Titans.

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Red Eyes
Chinn Up, it ain't nothin' but a thang.

[This message has been edited by milkman (edited 08-23-2000).]

Fat Homer
08-23-2000, 09:19 AM
I don't know about you guys, but I have definitely noticed a change in our O philosophy! We've run 5-wide sets, shotgun formation, sweeps, pitches, screens, and set our #1 weapon(TonyG) out wide.

Sure, vs Jax we went 100% vanilla, but I think that was because of our lack of effort vs San Fran -- a very bad team who needs preseason wins to get their player & fans confidence up. Gun did his 'return to basics' thing; and it worked to a degree -- we didn't have a bunch of penalties and we rushed for 90 yds on 19 carries in the first half.

I'm not expecting a StLouis style O in KC -- just a more open, flexible one. The running game will still be our bread & butter (if Elvis doesn't start looking to receivers other than Tony soon, we may be running out of necessity!)

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The Blessed Virgin Larry
08-23-2000, 09:22 AM
HC,
Milkman explained my position better than I could......and I've already finished 2 cups of coffee. *grin*

htismaqe
08-23-2000, 09:25 AM
Chinn,

If Chicago would have followed that philosophy, they would have had at least one less win last season (us).

The idea that our O should be completely installed by the beginning of the season is invalid. Just as the idea that we should show our hand in preseason because after the first game everyone will know what we do anyway is invalid (no team shows everything it's got in one game).

From what Gun has said, an offense is something that develops and expands as a season progresses. All teams do this to some extent, I think Gun's vision is to be very active in this area. Last year, he had to establish the toughness, the run, and the playaction, but probably most importantly, the reputation of toughness and the run.

This year he can build on it. As he gets better personnel he can expand the run, open up the passing, etc.

But you can bet he will use preseason as a 'review' of what he established last season before he shows his hand further.

Luz
agree or not, i believe this is what's happening...

Bwana
08-23-2000, 09:32 AM
Here's my take on this - I think Grbac is right, the offense has done what it's been asked to do this preseason - and here's why. I think they've purposely played a very simple and basic offense and kept their new stuff as a surprise. True, by week 3 the new offense won't be much of a surprise anymore, but our first 2 games are against Indy and Tenn and those are 2 of our toughest games and ones that we desperately want to win. So wouldn't it make sense that you'd like to have a little bit of a surprise in your offense for those teams?

ddpatterson
08-23-2000, 09:33 AM
Luz,
KS never adjusted for the Colts or Seattle, which leads me to believe that he wouldn't, or couldn't have for Chicago either. My faith in the D for this upcoming season is based solely on the belief that Gun will become more involved. I don't believe he will sit idly by and watch the same things happen this season as last, and fully expect an improved approach opening day.

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Red Eyes
[i]Chinn Up, it ain't nothin' but a thang.</I>

Raiderhader
08-23-2000, 09:36 AM
I dont think I buy much of this 'suprise' factor. We are NOT going to do anything terribly radical. We cant we have the SAME people in the same chairs.

We may line up with 4 wides, but the patters will be pattern similar to what our 3 wide package would have been.

8 of our games are against our divison foes, they KNOW our style of play, there's nothing to suprise them with.

If we cant beat the blitz, with screens, slants, etc and we cant stop the tendencies to go 3 n out as soon as we get a lead of 7 or more points, it's going to be the same result at the end of this year.

ddpatterson
08-23-2000, 09:36 AM
Shannon,
You make a good point, but as stated previously, my concern is for the timing of this more open approach that we are hearing about, and hoping for.

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Red Eyes
[i]Chinn Up, it ain't nothin' but a thang.</I>

AustinChief
08-23-2000, 09:36 AM
I don't think it has anything to do with practicing the offense, hiding the offense, or whatever. We've got SO MANY new players...preseason is being used to evaluate talent. After that's done, we can get down to business.

I bet we see more of the real offense next time around.

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Parker

[i]It is no coincidence that fascism is often referred to as a "reactionary movement".</I>

htismaqe
08-23-2000, 09:38 AM
John,

I agree about Gun's envolvement being beneficial. It could also be very instructional for Kurt.

I remember when I used to go into havetime confident that we were the best team in the league at making halftime adjustments (on D). Was that '97 or '98?

Luz
was gun our dc in '97?...

ddpatterson
08-23-2000, 09:39 AM
Parker,
The starters won't play more than 2 or 3 series in the last preseason game.

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Red Eyes
[i]Chinn Up, it ain't nothin' but a thang.</I>

The Blessed Virgin Larry
08-23-2000, 09:42 AM
What is wrong with some of you? This is the Chiefs offense we're talking about here. By week 3 the Chiefs will be in "panic mode" and we'll see 3 plays run up Grunhard's butt and punt.

Luz,
You've made some good points as usual, I'm just finished believing in Jimmy Raye. Things could be as you say, but I'm NOT buying into the hype .....again!

ddpatterson
08-23-2000, 09:44 AM
Luz,
Yes, Gun was the DC in '97.
I think Gun's "naming himself as asst. "rah rah' coach", was just a way for him to get more involved in the D, without saying that KS is just one ****ed up DC.

~I love this word filter thing~

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Red Eyes
[i]Chinn Up, it ain't nothin' but a thang.</I>

Raiderhader
08-23-2000, 09:44 AM
Game 4 of preseason will be void of anything that resembles our starters and plays.

So far this preseason, we have practiced our 'new' offense (Im referring specifically to the shotgun) once. And that ONE play was a receiver screen to Rison for a gain of a yard on 3rd and 5+ yards.

This is what I mean about the same people calling same plays. Formation may change, the philosophy hasnt.

The Blessed Virgin Larry
08-23-2000, 09:46 AM
Titus,
AS USUAL, your's is the voice of reason when it comes to this topic. Great take!
The more things (seem) to change, the more they remain the SAME (in the end)

BIG_DADDY
08-23-2000, 09:48 AM
If we consider the 49er game, then no our 1st string offense hasn't met it's objective in preseason. I can't remmeber the article at KCCHIEFS.COM, but they laid out the preseason goals per game for the first unit:

1) Strike quick : result drive 1 for TD, goal accomplished

2) Mix it up and move the ball around : result unaccomplished by a long shot

3) Establish the run: result we ran all over them in the 1st half.

There is truth in Grbacs words, they aren't trying to win the preseason games, just work on given tasks.

[This message has been edited by KC Jones (edited 08-23-2000).]

Dr. Red
08-23-2000, 09:49 AM
Luz - your comment scares me that we are instructing our Defensive Coord. how to coach. We should be able to find a qualified body in the NFL that needs less instruction, wouldncha think??

redbrian
08-23-2000, 09:52 AM
Raye and Grbac both must go.

If KC only had a better, more daring OC, Grbac would fail. He cannot succeed without being "hidden" in the offense, IMO.

If KC only had a more talented QB, Raye wouldn't know how to take advantage of his ability.

I have a hard time blaming either one of these guys for the pathetic performances of the other. No OC is going to make Grbac look good, and no QB is going to make Raye look good, IMO. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/mad.gif

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The Blessed Virgin Larry
08-23-2000, 09:54 AM
I'd welcome the notion of Gun taking a more hands on approach of the defense. It's done all the time by offensive-minded coaches. It's the place where Gun can help the most. IMHO, more of Gun and LESS of Kurt is a GOOD thing!

Unfortunately, we're sunk on offense.

Raiderhader
08-23-2000, 09:54 AM
KC Jones, #1 was accomplished 1 time in 3 games. The first game.

Since then our first drives have been a 3-n-out and a stall inside the 20 resulting in a FG. Sounds pretty familiar--and they did this w/o gameplanning.

htismaqe
08-23-2000, 09:57 AM
Actually, Clint, Bob Dole thinks that Grbac has a very good long ball for the most part. More often than not (okay...it's only happened like 4 times since Elvis has been in KC), the 30+ yard passes are on-the-money.

Bob Dole doubts that Elvis could handle much more complex plays, but sending TG over the middle short to draw coverage and sending 2 or 3 WR long isn't really very complicated.

htismaqe
08-23-2000, 09:57 AM
John,

I know what point you're trying to make here, but I don't think it applies.

Gun sees himself as a coaches coach, and believes that EVERYONE involved with the team needs to be constantly improving.

I would be willing to bet that Gun has always carried an attitude of wanting to learn from everyone, and I can guarantee you that he will demand the same attitude from everyone that works for him.

Gun's loyalty to his coaches is not blind. He is loyal as long as they are listening and showing a desire to improve. The ONLY thing you might question about Gun (IMO) is his ability to discern when an assistant no longer has the ability to improve at the speed necesary (regardless of desire).

I know this is kind of convoluted, but I'll bet you a nickle that I'm right!

Luz
really pulling for gun...

BIG_DADDY
08-23-2000, 09:59 AM
Titus,

The goals were different for each game. #1 was the goal for game one. #3 was the goal for game 3. Hence I considered those two goals met in their respective games by the 1st string offense. As I recall from game 1, the 1st string was only in for two drives.

[This message has been edited by KC Jones (edited 08-23-2000).]

Dr. Red
08-23-2000, 10:01 AM
TX - I agree that HC's often get involved in the area they came from (either O or D). But, it's almost like Gun would have to be the D Coord., so what the hell is the value of Schotzie? My point, there are qualified candidates in the NFL who are ready to take on a DC job, we need one, badly (Willie Shaw's avail. on our staff, now).

Jees, for that matter, let's get Offensive and ST's Coordinators while we're at it (Can you say Warren Moon and Manusky?).

Raiderhader
08-23-2000, 10:02 AM
Sorry...I misread your post.

Still, if that is the case then we gave up the suprise factor with last weeks game. Establish the run is our 'bread and butter'.

We should have stuck with #2 in Game #3 as it was obvious we need more practice in that dept.

BIG_DADDY
08-23-2000, 10:16 AM
LOL... yea, it would be nice to see some sustained drives. If those FG drives in the first half had been TD drives, I'm sure we'd all feel much better right now. I'm more concerned about STs than anything else though.

SourBran is not living up to what we need from him. If we can't punt our way out of bad field position, or bury the opposing team after a KO, this team will have some real problems winning the West.

Luzap
08-23-2000, 11:37 AM
In trying to see the glass half full I think what Grbac ment was that they were not focusing on scoring points so much as running certain plays to evaluate certain players. An example would be the last game where they opened with several running plays in a row. It wasn't a matter of offensive philosopy, they were just evaluating the o line and rbs. At least this is what I have gathered from reading Grbac's and Gun's quotes.

Then again it could just be an excuse.

Dev
~looking for the positive...

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