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AZChief
08-23-2000, 09:13 AM
Per CNNSI: Lowest and Highest % of 3 and outs. LOWEST- 1. Colts 15.6 2. Vikings 16.7 3. Rams 17.0 4. Redskins 19.3 5. Panthers 20.7 HIGHEST- 27th CHIEFS 28.9 28. Cardnals 30.0 29. Chargers 30.1 30. Eagles 31.7 31. Browns 34.8 This is MAJOR LEAGUE BAD. Not even John Procter could put a positive spin on this. What do you think? How do we beat these stats this year? Would Dillon changed it around a lot? SOMEBODY MAKE ME FEEL BETTER ABOUT THIS. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/news/2000/08/22/season_lookahead_ap/ <P>

AZChief
08-23-2000, 09:20 AM
Could the new offensive changes be enough to make a big difference? Do we have playmakers already in place to effect the change?

ddpatterson
08-23-2000, 09:23 AM
This just substatiates the arguement against the SitCom that many of us have had this past offseason with the chaplain. However, one good point that he made in these debates is that Bam is no longer in KC, and that should improve the overall performance. We have to hope, however, that Gun isn't just blowing smoke when he talks about opening up the offense, and that Cloud and T-Rich get the majority of the carries. These 2 things should lead to a huge improvement.

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Red Eyes
[i]Chinn Up</I>

Coogs
08-23-2000, 09:27 AM
Agree milkman!

TRich and Cloud splitting carries does not make a committee, otherwise a large majority of teams run by committee as well. IMO, a Trich/Cloud backfield would tear some new holes in the AFC West, if ya know what I mean. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/wink.gif

I think just being more creative on offense, and I mean play calling, not necessarily play design(although that would be nice), should bring that figure way down.

Now, inovative play design and proper execution..that would put us on the other list. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/smile.gif


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ct
the freedom of choice is truth
the fear to choose is hypocrisy

[This message has been edited by coryt (edited 08-23-2000).]

htismaqe
08-23-2000, 09:29 AM
Bob Dole would not really attribute this statistic to the RBbC, but rather, idiotic play-calling and predictable formations and personell.

As Bob Dole has pointed out in the past: if we, as fans, can sit on the couch and predict with 80% reliability who is going to get the ball and where they're going with it, it really doesn't surprise Bob Dole that opposing defenses who have watched game films can figure it out, too.

DoktorSmith
08-23-2000, 09:30 AM
without reading the link...are these the stats from last year or from per-season?


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joe
"I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather...Not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car." (j. handy)

Warrior5
08-23-2000, 09:31 AM
I agree that concentrating on T-Rich (especially in critical 3rd down situations) for the whole season will reduce the 3-and-outs somewhat. He only came into his own late last season as others have pointed out. The rest of the problem though appears to lie with the coaching staff, like the playcalling where Grbac would throw underneath coverage short of the first down marker and the receiver would be mobbed immediately http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/frown.gif

BIG_DADDY
08-23-2000, 09:40 AM
Not exactly a positive spin but...

A telling stat to compare this to would be offensive penalties. We were second in the league in penalties, which probably has a strong relationship to this statistic. The San Diego game penalties alone must have accounted for at least 6 three and out series.

BIG_DADDY
08-23-2000, 09:40 AM
Morale of the story:

Less penalties, better drives

Coogs
08-23-2000, 09:41 AM
cormac,

Throwing short of the marker lends more to the Grbac security blanket theory more than play-calling. Just a guess, but I'd bet every time Grbac would do this, other than the designed pass to the back in the flat, there IS a Wr with a route past the marker.

That problem is two-fold: Grbac selecting the proper route to throw to, AND play-calling from the booth to give our guys a fighting chance.



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ct
the freedom of choice is truth
the fear to choose is [b]hypocrisy</B>

Raiderhader
08-23-2000, 09:45 AM
Cory: If there is one past the marker, chances are he's covered and that would explain why the pass to the open man.

htismaqe
08-23-2000, 09:47 AM
Bob Dole thinks the penalty issue is also part of the equation and thanks KC Jones for bringing it up.

Warrior5
08-23-2000, 09:48 AM
Good point ct. I just don't know who is in the wrong: the receiver for being there, the design of the play, or Grbac for throwing it to the short receiver. It rarely seemed to work, the receiver couldn't make it to the marker. Much more efficient are the hooks and outs run by Lockett for instance.

Am I crazy, or do I remember a stat from last season where Grbac had one of the best 3rd down completion percentages, or something like that http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/confused.gif

AZChief
08-23-2000, 09:51 AM
58Forerer- Stats are from 1999 regular season games. Thanks guys I'm starting to feel better already. No committee could help I think.

Coogs
08-23-2000, 09:53 AM
Wouldn't surprise me a bit if Grbac did have one of the best 3rd cown completion%. But, if you throw to your back in the flat half of every 3rd down pass attempt, you **** well better have a high completion%, don't ya think?


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ct
the freedom of choice is truth
the fear to choose is [b]hypocrisy</B>

Coogs
08-23-2000, 09:55 AM
SHEESH!!

I can't even say that?

I'm feeling kinda censored here BBA!!
What gives? http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/wink.gif


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ct
the freedom of choice is truth
the fear to choose is [b]hypocrisy</B>

Warrior5
08-23-2000, 09:55 AM
It obviously means little if the 3-n-out percentage is so high http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/frown.gif

Raiderhader
08-23-2000, 09:57 AM
I think Cormac was referring to Grbac's 3rd down passing and the subsequent conversions to first downs.

Unfortunately, NFL doesnt keep track of # of 3 n outs. You'd have to go back over all of the plays in every game, total the # of plays and the # of 3 n outs to arrive at such a number. Too much work for me.

AZChief
08-23-2000, 09:58 AM
The idea of Cat heading straight to the end zone while TG gets triple teamed is good. You can't tell me Parker, Alexander, and Lockett aren't gonna be able to get open at least 7-10 yards down. Elvis has to hit other receivers this year or we're cooked.

Warrior5
08-23-2000, 10:00 AM
Gregg,

I couldn't remember if it was simply completion %, or conversion % by passing........

AZChief
08-23-2000, 10:02 AM
I think it was conversion percentage.

Raiderhader
08-23-2000, 10:04 AM
They actually dont have a conversion percentage per se in the stats. He was 5th in QB rating with 89.3 on 3rd down passing.

94/154, 1225 yds, 9TDs, 6Ints, 61.1% comp rate.

Here's my source (http://stats.nfl.com/stats/nfl_stats.asp)

You will need to change the box from Touchdowns to 3rd down passing.

[This message has been edited by KCTitus (edited 08-23-2000).]

Coogs
08-23-2000, 10:05 AM
If that is the case, that Grbac had one of the best 3rd down conversion%, that can lead me to only one conclusion.

If we pass on 3rd down, we apparently did well. If we run on 3rd down, we did not.

So much for attitude running game, eh?



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ct
the freedom of choice is truth
the fear to choose is [b]hypocrisy</B>

htismaqe
08-23-2000, 10:08 AM
Gentlemen,

I think it's a given that our STs, and our passing game will be better this year.

I think there is good reason to believe that our D will be better this year.

The question for all, is 'how much better?'

What is getting overlooked, IMO, is that our running game will be much improved. Running wide as well as inside will loosen up the middle tremendously.

We have, IMO, improved four major aspects of our game this offseason. A tremendous feat. Even if each is only a little improved, it could take us a long way.

Luz
for the first time in forever, the chiefs could be a very balanced team...

[This message has been edited by Luzap (edited 08-23-2000).]

htismaqe
08-23-2000, 10:20 AM
Running wide as well as well as up the middle will only loosen things up if we can use to same backs/formation to accomplish the task.

One of the problems in the past has been that the RB(s) in place (or other aspects of the set) have indicated where the ball carrier is headed.

Warrior5
08-23-2000, 10:22 AM
Thanks Titus..........it does look like we need to do more passing on 3rd downs.

htismaqe
08-23-2000, 10:28 AM
Bob,

I agree.

That's why I think a Cloud/TRich backfield could be so powerful.

Also, TRich has the speed, does he have the skill to take it outside?

Luz
what is your take?...

AZChief
08-23-2000, 10:29 AM
This also factors in: last year Gun was trying to establish the run, remember? 3rd and 12 and we ran. We'd run 1st, 2nd, and 3rd down. Then about twice a quarter we'd go play-action pass. The mere fact that we're now trying to impliment a more diverse offense should give us hope. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/confused.gif

htismaqe
08-23-2000, 10:38 AM
TRich and Cloud, Kimble (if healthy) and Cloud would be ideal, given Kimble's proven ability to turn the swing pass into yardage. You'd have the complete package run middle/run gut/pass.

Bob Dole suspects he's just dreaming, since Bob Dole has wanted it since Okoye was in the backfield...

[This message has been edited by Robert_Dole (edited 08-23-2000).]

AZChief
08-23-2000, 10:41 AM
Bod- Think at least 1 of these guys will get over a 1000 this year? Which one? How about 2 at a 1000 each?

AZChief
08-23-2000, 10:43 AM
Bod= Bob dole.

htismaqe
08-23-2000, 10:50 AM
Bob Dole hopes Cloud can accomplish 1000, but Bob Dole has doubts. Unfortunately, Bob Dole has not had the opportunity to see anything of the games thus far, so is just guessing...

BTW - You can edit your original post by clicking on the little pen/pad icon just above it.

ddpatterson
08-23-2000, 10:50 AM
dnvr,
On this board, you have the ability to fix mistakes on your posts, after they have been posted. If you look above each post, there is a pencil and paper graphic. Click on that, and it will take you to the page that allows you to fix your mistake.

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Red Eyes
[i]Chinn Up, it ain't nothin' but a thang.</I>

AZChief
08-23-2000, 10:59 AM
I have an unrelated question. In order to change my name status to regular; does it take 30 topics submitted or 30 replies?

[This message has been edited by dnvrCHIEFSfn (edited 08-23-2000).]

ddpatterson
08-23-2000, 11:02 AM
30 replies. If it were topics, I'd be a lifetime lurker.

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Red Eyes
[i]Chinn Up, it ain't nothin' but a thang.</I>

AZChief
08-23-2000, 11:10 AM
Thanks for the update. I plan to be a regular at the end of business tomorrow if I have to spam my own topix.

AZChief
08-23-2000, 11:11 AM
thanx

ddpatterson
08-23-2000, 11:12 AM
dnvr,
Check it out. You're already a regular.

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Red Eyes
[i]Chinn Up, it ain't nothin' but a thang.</I>

htismaqe
08-23-2000, 11:12 AM
dnvr:

Here is the official <a href="http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000038.html">Spam to be a Regular</a> topic.

[This message has been edited by Robert_Dole (edited 08-23-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Robert_Dole (edited 08-23-2000).]

AZChief
08-23-2000, 11:57 AM
Bob...was that you I saw at the Grand Junction, CO airport 72 hours before the last presidential election? Remember Elizabeth had on a black leather jacket with biker's stuff all over it. Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell was also there. I once lived about 40 miles from your home town in Kansas did you know?

htismaqe
08-23-2000, 11:58 AM
Must have been another Bob Dole who insists on talking in third person. This Bob Dole tends to avoid "biker chicks." (Well...the Schwinn type are sometimes acceptable.)

[This message has been edited by Robert_Dole (edited 08-23-2000).]

Devin Vierth
08-23-2000, 12:42 PM
With the way the offense has looked in pre-season, teams won't be able to stack the middle against the run. This in turn will help the pass-protection be better because there night not be a concentrated rush up the middle. But, I admit, this will only happen if JR doesn't revert back to his old form.



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bk

htismaqe
08-23-2000, 12:45 PM
Opposing defenses will continue to be able to stack the middle against the run if we continue to broadcast that's where the play is going by the formation and the personnel in it.

redbrian
08-23-2000, 12:45 PM
IMO, with the way the offense has looked this preseason our opponents might put 10 men in the box...with EG at QB you've only gotta cover one target, anyway!