View Full Version : can jimmy raye accept some of the blame for the poor showing in the preseason?

Tribal Warfare
08-23-2000, 01:21 PM
The execution of the offense is put upon the players but the poor play calling of the offensive cordinator does not let the players show there true physical talents. You can argue that it is preseason and they dont want to reveal their whole package, but you need to execute in real game situations to see if the players can produce. Any thouhts on this subject?

Bob Dole
08-23-2000, 01:24 PM
He don't need to. The offense played well last year and will do the same this year.

It's our defense we should worry about. Period.

08-23-2000, 01:29 PM
If you are expecting a brilliant turnaround once the season starts, you are doomed to disappointment. Raye’s ineptitude was displayed both at KC and at his previous failed campaigns as OC. This is not a preseason issue. The facts are clear from Raye’s dismay resume as OC.

He stinks at the job.

My sad prediction is that Raye will be the reason I withdraw my support from Gunther. Retaining him after his long record of failure was inexcusable. Perhaps Gunther sees something in Raye that I do not. Perhaps Raye will open up the Offense, become less predictable, create and exploit mismatches and use successful plays more than once per game.

In that case, I will gleefully eat my apportioned plate of crow.

If, as I expect, Raye continues his inept display, I will have to start campaigning for Gunther’s ouster. He gets this season to prove to me that he was right and I was wrong about the Three Stooges.

not expecting to sample Raye crow any time soon.<BR>

Tribal Warfare
08-23-2000, 01:35 PM
Dr. Red, you say that the offense is not a problem but if you go by stats from last year you may have a point, but maybe the problem is adjustments that are not made during the game that dont win us those close games.

Bob Dole
08-23-2000, 01:42 PM
It was the inability of our defense to hold, especially seattle in both games, from scoring a TD when we needed a stop to surprisingly question our defense.

I'm a firm believer that we have the offense to get to the superbowl. I believe this cause Tampa Bay got there with a worse offense. It is clear though that unless our defense don't step up we may be in for more close games than I would care to see as a diehard chiefs fan.

Gaz I agree that raye is unoriginal. It doesn't matter. If you have to personal to ram it down the other teams throat then go with it. I see signs of us opening up and we led the league in big plays last year over 30 yards. I just hope our defense can suck it up.

08-23-2000, 01:47 PM
Gaz, I think Gun had to leave his major coordinators in tact to create a little continuity in the organization. While this is no excuse for retaining Stock, keeping Raye and Schott will allow the returning players to feel comfortable in the system and with their coaches. While I whole heartedly agree that the performances of both Raye and Schott left a lot to be desired, I feel retaining them for '00 was the correct choice. That being said, I agree that both need to show dramatic improvement from '99. If both repeat their disappointing '99 performance then Gun must make the proper changes. If his loyalty impedes his decision making after the '00 season than Gun should take the heat. I just feel that such major changes after the '99 season would hurt more than they would help.


Remember Kansas City's hero, Joe Delaney #37.

[This message has been edited by AZChief (edited 08-23-2000).]

08-23-2000, 01:50 PM
Dr. Red-

I think Raye’s predictability is the primary factor in the obscene number of 3 & outs we had last season. I can sit on my couch and call the majority of our plays before they happen. A professional DC can probably do much better than I can.

You’re right, we have the personnel to have a good Offense. We still lack a go-to HB and Grbac will not elevate a team by his own efforts, but overall, we have good personnel. A great OL, FB & TE, with some very good possession receivers and a diamond in the rough #1 WR.

However, these players are limited by Raye’s play calling. I do not believe we will see any significant improvement in the Chiefs’ Offense until Raye is a bad memory.

He has an entire season to prove me wrong. If he does, I will happily take my lumps.

lumpless, and planning to stay that way.<BR>

08-23-2000, 01:51 PM
Actually, I'm with Dr. Red on this. We put up points last year. Especially towards the latter half of the season. We were also amongst the league leaders in red-zone scoring and efficiency. While Raye continues to be a concern, offense isn't the major problem this year.

08-23-2000, 02:00 PM

That’s plausible, even if I think it is a lousy idea. It is an innovative attempt to explain the inexplicable, sir, and I salute you for your valiant effort.

Continuity is all well and good, but if the Generals put forth a sows ear battle plan, the most dedicated soldiers will not make a silk purse victory out of it [I just finished “The Killer Angels” and have Lee and Gettysburg on my mind]. Raye’s plodding, predictable game plan [if I may use the term loosely] makes the DC’s job a snap.

Clog the middle of the field and blitz on 3rd and long. Stop the run and dare Grbac to beat you. Most of the time, that will succeed in shutting down the Chiefs Offense. When teams did that to us, did we see screen plays with blockers downfield? Or quick passes to Alexander? Or pitch plays to the outside? Well, yes, we did see a pitch play. To Bam. Stupid beyond belief, but I was glad to see it. There is a brutal example of how starved I am for some Offensive innovation.

Raye is the single biggest drag on our Offense.

finds little value in Raye.<BR>

08-23-2000, 02:07 PM

I'm not sure that Raye's problem is not opening it up as much as he doesn't "feel" the game. The OC must be able to get into a game's rhythm and change the game plan on the fly. It APPEARS to me that he has a game plan going into a game and that it is the holy grail. I want a free thinker in as OC.


Dr. Red
08-23-2000, 02:10 PM
Gaz -

You are a strong voice against Raye, so I will ask you this question: What would you have our offense do (wide open question, I know) that it currently does not. Or conversely, what would you have them do less of.

I already have a follow up question, but will hold until I get your reply.


08-23-2000, 02:12 PM

We were high in red zone scoring PERCENTAGE, but we were way down the line in number of times we entered the red zone. I blame a lot of that on our kicking game and the lack of field position that created for the offense. Let's hope we got that taken care of this year.


Tribal Warfare
08-23-2000, 02:15 PM
The offense should spread out more, especially if they plan on useing a multi-recevier set and the shotgun on third down situations.

08-23-2000, 02:16 PM

While I agree the play calling was uninspired, particularly the design and personel choices of the running game, I thought the idea of lulling the defense to sleep with a power running game (read Bennett and Bam charging at Grun's rear) and then going deep on play action was a nice departure from the "west coast/Kimble dump pass offense" of yesterday.

Granted sometimes this run/run/run/punt, run/run/run/punt, run/run/play action put fans and defenses alike into a coma.

I'd like to see better personel decisions by Raye. I still can't believe we've been throwing screens to Bennett this preseason. This makes no sense. I'm assuming Raye's trying to surprise the Defense by using a power back in such a capacity. The problem is linebackers have plenty of time to recover before a 230 lb can make it to the corner and catch a pass. I hope he's learned this doesn't work...


[This message has been edited by AZChief (edited 08-23-2000).]

08-23-2000, 02:17 PM

Another interesting perspective.

That’s why I like the BB: new ideas.

You could be right. Reaction may be where his game collapses. I know I have been terribly frustrated when a play worked really well and then was not called again. I guess I can see the possibility that Raye has a “**** the torpedoes, stick to the game plan” strategy.

Although I must say, the game plan that he is so proud of offers little to recommend it. It takes very little foresight or imagination to conclude that an inside running game will soon attract LBs like flies at a picnic. The payoff is, of course, the play action bomb.

However, teams realize that we are a one-trick pony. If the play action bomb does not connect, where are you?

The obvious answer is 3rd and long. Now you have a QB who often makes bad decisions under extreme pressure undergoing extreme pressure. Grbac performed much better than expected in the latter half of the season, but if you stake him out like that, the jackals are going to get him eventually. Better to avoid putting him in that situation.

expanding his mind to take in some new theories.<BR>

08-23-2000, 02:28 PM
Do you remember the game last year (can't recall who we were playing) when we threw (literally) caution to the wind and passed the day away? It was like, ok, new game plan, everybody go long. But it was still one-dimensional and therefor easy to defense. We didn't screen, run a draw or anything else. The next week we were back to run,run,run,punt.


08-23-2000, 02:33 PM

The pitch plays we saw in preseason were a start. I believe in a strong running game. I just would like to see us run somewhere else than up Grunhard’s butt. We are far too predictable.

As far as the running game is concerned, I would like to see a split backfield with Richardson and Cloud. That opens up lots of options for running inside/outside as well as the swing pass and [Heaven forefend] blockers on a screen pass.

I would like to see us use more quick pass patterns. Bob Dole pointed out one I wanted to see last season. Throw the quick pass to Alexander and let him use his running ability. That also takes some pressure off of Grbac.

I want to see blockers on the screen play. Time after time, we’d toss the screen pass to the RB who was all alone. Richardson accomplished some magic with this play, but imagine what he could have done with blockers downfield.

Multiple plays from standard formations. We telegraph the play with our formation. We should devise plays that all start from the same small handful of formations.

Confusion to the enemy!

presenting his wish list.<BR>

08-23-2000, 02:34 PM
Well, my friends, it is quitting time. Please carry on and puncture my arguments at will during my absence. I will check in tomorrow and see what you had to say.


off the clock.<BR>