Politics, Chiefs & Broncos

[Frazod]

Wow... at first I thought, "How funny, KC gets beat by the Raiduhs (again) and the site is down." Then, I thought "Damn, Luz and the other guys must have beaten down the site with their political hot sports opinions."

I don't know what to say about what's going on in Florida, other than I can help but think if the shoe were on the other foot, that the republicans would be doing the same thing. I have yet to hear what is illegal?

Bush approved a similar law for Texas. Did he not? I think if there are questions about ballots, then "yes" they should recount ballots in Florida or any other state where it is allowed. I think if the Bush camp thinks there were errors in other states, then go check.

Is it not odd to any of you, that despite the fact that Bush still won the first recount, it was by a much smaller margin? I think that is significant.

Either way, does it make us look silly? Probably, but just b/c it makes us look silly doesn't mean we can't question the system and work within the rules to change it and make it right for future elections.

Chiefs... what the hell happened? It was the friggin 49ers!!! Dammit, thanks to Grbac and Gonzo laying eggs, I fell to 6-5 in one fantasy league. Damn them!!!

Broncos... prepare to watch the brooms come out in Mile High. No, not in the stands. The fans will be very civil tonight. The Broncos will defeat the Raiduhs and move to 6-4 on the year.

GO BRONCOS!

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~Brad2K~

Kick his a$$, SeaBass!

[ColoradoChief]

Brad - You did hear that it will take 22 more days to count the votes by hand in just Palm Beach county and they have not even started in the other ones. The arguement is that it dilutes the votes in other county, because the machine (also known as ancient pieces of crap) tend to miss a certain percentage of the votes and to do a hand count in one county means the ones not counted in another county hurt their standing more.

Now is it complete BS that the machines misses any of the proper ones, sure it is. It is time to do away with punch cards if it really is the case, but obviously there is not time enough to do a hound count in the entire state of Florida before the deadline.

[Frazod]

I agree that the system and the process is a bit screwed up, but isn't it good to go through this now if it ultimately means an end to the archaic (sp?) punch card ballots?

Why not use a computer based method in all 50 states? Wow.. think about a major expense, but wouldn't it be worth it?

I think it says something if the President of the US is elected (especially in as close a race as this has become) based on poor machine counts and without the 'mail in' ballots. Why aren't the 'mail in' ballots supposed to be in earlier? It makes no sense.

It sounds like Luz and others are upset b/c (a) this process is making the US look stupid (b)the republicans could lose to whining democrats and (c)refer to a.

I know that is a simplistic view, and yes, I'm all for the recounts b/c I think Bush is about as smart as I am, so there's no way he should be President. :wink:

However, just b/c we've been doing elections this way for many years and just b/c we teach other nations to be democracies, doesn't mean our method is 100% fool proof.

[Duck Dog]

The voting instructions in each booth state that the voter should inspect his(her) card before submitting it to be sure that holes are completely punched and that there are no partially attached 'brads'.

If a person fails to follow these instructions, why should their vote count?

Or, more specifically, why should their vote count when someone else that didn't follow instructions to vote at the correct location doesn't get his vote counted?

Or, why would you make exceptions for rule breakers in one county and not others?

If one candidate advocates making exceptions for ONLY democratic voters isn't this 'legal' corruption?

Luz
please... let's drop all this sharade of wanting to hear the will of the people...

[Frazod]

Luz, I specifically heard that guy, Daley, state yesterday that if recounts are requested by the Bush camp in other counties and/or states where they have questions about ballots, then they should do it.

This is why I dislike politics... I'm not even going to ask what you would say if the situations were reversed. I know what you would say.

[ColoradoChief]

Brad - I'm not sure what you mean by computer ballot, but some variation using computers would be a bonus. I think that there still needs to be a paper ballot that the person who voted can verify before putting it in the ballot box. I have too many worries about computer glitches giving someone all of the counts if a person can't verify on a piece of paper.

As for the mail in ballots not being in earlier, I'm sure it is an older law and made well be for the current media frenzie to be first to everything. I don't think the American Public would be as annoyed if we didn't have the media out there trying to call a winner the first night. Not only that but being on all night long as well. Do you think we would have half the contraversey if the states said we will release the number when we are done, it will take a couple days.

[Frazod]

The media is the source of all things good and evil in this world. http://63.249.247.210/ubb/biggrin.gif

There has to be a better way for voting, other than punchcards. Something like, set up banks of terminals at the voting locations, log on with your SSN# and DL# (or something like that) and then submit your votes via the computer.

[Luzap]

While a noble idea, what happens if you go to this 'terminal' enter your SSN and it says, you cannot vote, you already voted. Not to mention the dead people with valid SSN's who mysteriously vote for the local democratic candidate.

Another minus against this idea is, who 'retains' or sees who I voted for? Someone somewhere would have this information and it would be able to be reviewed. I dont like the idea of someone being able to track my votes on issues regardless of who it is.

[Frazod]

Then, what is your solution?

[autoxwes]

Before going to the terminal, just as now, you would simply go to the table where you know recieve the ballot and instead of recieving a ballot you recieve an ID number that you would enter into the terminal. Then before the vote was "transmitted" a hard copy would print for you to inspect.

One more thought. As others have mentioned, election day should be a federal holiday and the booths should be open from 7am CST on 11/7 to 7am CST on 11/8 coast to coast.

This is not rocket science.<P>

[Luzap]

I dont claim to be an expert about this, but I dont think 'computer voting' is the panacea we see being volleyed around right now.

Too much room for fraud in the current system, too much room for fraud in the computer systems.

[autoxwes]

Titus, I agree somewhat with what you are saying, especially about voter confidentiality. What about standard ballots across the country for federal elections? The punch ballots should be discarded. My first thought is to use a card much like that is used for standardized testing (SAT, ACT, ect). And make it "Florida proof" No offense to any of our Florida residents.<P>

[Luzap]

Ok, so what if someone transposes their ID number? What if that impacts someone elses vote? How do you know that the ID number is tied back to your name/ssn?

Having been in the computer biz now for 8 years, I can tell you that I have seen people make computers fail and generate computer errors in ways that no beta tester could have ever imagined.

[ColoradoChief]

Brad - I think the ballot should still be in hard copy, even as a computer person, I do not like the idea of the votes being transmitted to a central computer. There are just too many things that can go wrong.

[ColoradoChief]

Wis - That is what I was thinking, in terms of ballots. The terminal could verify and select the right area on the ballot and make the appropriate marking, with the program keeping people from marking it wrong.

[Luzap]

WisChief: Having voted in Missouri and Virginia and approximately half a dozen different precints in those states, I would have to say that the majority are pretty standard.

Ballots are one thing that is almost exclusively under local control. I really hate the idea of giving, albeit a small item, this 'power' to the centralized authority known as our federal government. That's the only way to do it because you're not going to get 50 states to agree on any one thing.

[Baby Lee]

WisChief:

A take off on your idea. A national holiday would be a good thing and having the polls open from 7:00 am to 7:00 pm CST are both really good ideas.

With the computer, the ballot could automatically printed out after the voter has completed their voting. This way if there is any problem with looking at the paper ballot, the back-up would be a server. I believe we have the technology to be able to do it this way.




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bk

[redbrian]

This isn't good news for Gore:
http://www.newsday.com/ap/text/national/ap18.htm

[ColoradoChief]

Michael - Finally the Democrats are going to have to jump into court battles of their own and they are now going to have to fight state law. I think someone forgot to tell the two groups that an election was happening and not a game of tag.

[autoxwes]

Titus, this is why I recommended only FEDERAL elections having the standard ballot. The reason I say this is because from what we're hearing in Florida it seems that the Presidential portion of the ballot is the only thing messy. This makes me go hmmmm!!! Why is the whole ballot not dinked up?



[This message has been edited by WisChief (edited 11-13-2000).]

[autoxwes]

Titus, also...

here in Wisconsin I have voted in two Federal elections. The first was in Portage County and they used and still use the butterfly ballot. Here in Wood County they use a large print, single sheet that has broken arrows pointing to your choice and you use the supplied marker to fill in the arrow. VERY, VERY SIMPLE. My point? Federal ballots are not standard. I've also voted in Missouri and California. <P>

[Luzap]

WisChief: in the precinct where the double punchers messed up/double puched the presidential portion of the ballot about 15% of those people did the same on the congressional/senate portion.

Again, regardless of who the vote is for, ceding that control to the federal authorities is not something I would be in favor of.

[47mack]

If Gore wins Florida, it's not my fault because I voted for Bush. Or at least I think I did. http://63.249.247.210/ubb/wink.gif

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It looks I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!