View Full Version : This is a bull**** attitude!

08-25-2000, 07:05 AM
I don't care that it's preseason, I want to see fire in these guys to win. Winning is an attitude. And so is losing. I can not believe this quote from the Star.

"TAMPA, Fla. -- The Chiefs have a few things on their to-do list for tonight's final preseason game against Tampa Bay at Raymond James Stadium.

Winning is near the bottom, somewhere in small type, if it's there at all.

This is a horse**** way to look at preseason. Preseason is should be used for more than just player evaluation. You must get a team used to winning. Plus how can you truly evaluate a player if you do not know what kind winning attitude he has. Tony G. is the only Chief I have read about who seems to give a flip about winning. To quote.."To some players, like tight end Tony Gonzalez, winning carries some significance.

"It's always No. 1 for me, even in the preseason," Gonzalez said. "It's the first goal every time. I hope that's the attitude of this team. I think it is. That's what we say before every game we go out there. We bring the team together before every game and it's either `Chiefs' or `A win.'

It is not the attitude of YOUR FRICKEN COACHES!

[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

Baby Lee
08-25-2000, 07:14 AM
I'm with you there Duck. I don't give a hoot nor holler for guys that don't at least play to win. I mean sure these games don't count, But winning does set an attitude to start the season.

08-25-2000, 07:35 AM
http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/confused.gif http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/frown.gif http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/confused.gif http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/frown.gif

Last night on Sportscenter they were talking about the fact that teams that go undefeated in the preseason almost ALWAYS make the playoffs.

IMO that's becasue they make winning a habit YEAR-ROUND!

At least Gonzo doesn't have his head in his arse!!

This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!

The Blessed Virgin Larry
08-25-2000, 07:41 AM
I agree 100%. Teams are capable of WINNING and EVALUATING TALENT. Take the Jags for example. They game plan BOTH offensively and defensively for EVERY preseason game. They also execute that plan no matter where the players are on the depth chart. IMHO, the Chiefs are in the Dark Ages when it comes to the "proper" way to approach preseason. More prone to coming out FLAT rather than on a roll. Losing is also contageous and can be a mindset.

08-25-2000, 10:30 AM
IMHO, the Chiefs are in the dark ages in a lot of areas. But, this 'winning doesn't matter' crap is so bogus. It is a spin by Gun to the fans so we don't start worrying.

[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

Dr. Red
08-25-2000, 12:31 PM
Winning preseason is not important to the coaching staff, but it is definitely important to the players.

If you're an athlete, hell, even if you're just a competitor, you never want to lose. Coaches don't give a $hit about preseason because their job's aren't on the line. However, players starting job's are. That's what conern's me. Players should be giving 100% no matter what game it is.

Player's take their cue from the coaching staff about attitude. So if the staff doesn't give a $hit, why should the player's. All that best stop tonight, or you'll see a horrific carryover into week 1 against Indy. Let me tell you, Indy will pick up on that quick and jump all over the Chiefs if their heads aren't straight.



[This message has been edited by ChiTown (edited 08-25-2000).]

Bob Dole
08-25-2000, 12:51 PM
Pre-season don't mean squat. Get over it.

08-25-2000, 01:02 PM
It would be nice to get a win in TB, butI would trade a loss for a healthy team next week.So far we have been fair in preseason,not to bad for not game planning.
I think its far more important to find are backups and special teamers as gun would say
"looking for a few good men"

We interrupt this marriage to bring you the NFL season.

Dr. Red
08-25-2000, 01:16 PM
DR. Red - thanks for your in depth analysis.

It's a little deeper than "get over it". If attitudes on the field change tonight, then, I guess "I'll be over it".

Until then, we need to focus on how to win, just as much as we've proven how to lose. We have been perfecting this since the Seattle game last year.

08-25-2000, 01:22 PM
I'm not worried yet. This preseason we are working on our youmg WRs

Bob Dole
08-25-2000, 01:28 PM
After tonight the records are 0-0. That's the whole point. It's silly and sad to get all worked up over something that means nothing.

08-25-2000, 01:32 PM
I wouldn't say I'm worried yet, but, it would be nice to taste victory again. It's been a while. I think a win tonight would give the team a mental lift that will carry over to the Colts game.
Winning and losing are both habit forming.

Dr. Red
08-25-2000, 01:38 PM
Dr. -

Apparently you are missing my point. The W/L records me nothing to me personally. However, a teams attitude about winning and losing does. To play at their level and say you don't care is the same as getting your $ss beat every week.

If they lose with their heads in the game, and playing hard, I'm indifferent to the W/L. If they get beat on all phases of the game and look confused, I'm concerned. That's what I've been seeing for 3 straight games, excluding the 1st offensive and defensive series against Tenn.

This team has been playing without attitude and looking confused. Preseason, or not, that's a problem. Should they work that out tonight (win or lose), I'll feel much better about week #1 vs. Indy.

08-25-2000, 01:40 PM
From the trying to be optimistic perspective:

After having lost all 4 preseason games, wouldn't the team be more 'hungry' to work to win in week 1?

08-25-2000, 01:41 PM
If we lose tonight, but then kick the heck out of Indy at home on opening game none of you will even care that there was a preseason.

Bob Dole
08-25-2000, 01:42 PM
Chitown I see your point I just don't agree with it.

KCtitan.......LOL......your objectivity is duelly noted.

Dr. Red
08-25-2000, 01:44 PM
Titus - teams like N.O. and Cleveland keep telling themselves that every year. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/wink.gif

Seriously, I agree with Shakes, winning and losing are habit forming. You get used to accepting the loss, and it get's that much easier every week.

Just ask the Royals team from a couple of years ago under Bob Boone.

Gracie Dean
08-25-2000, 01:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> If you're an athlete, hell, even if you're just a competitor, you never want to lose. Coaches don't give a $hit about preseason because their job's aren't on the line. However, players starting job's are. That's what conern's me. Players should be giving 100% no matter what game it is. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure I agree with you a hunnert percent on your policework, there, Lou.

Talk about the Chiefs, and the NFL in general, is that the best teams have a firm concept of the size of the task before them each week. That's why we smoke the Bills in the regular season and they smoke us in the playoffs of the same season. That's why Dallas in its heyday managed to lose [often embarassingly] to one dog team a year, but come on like a freight train in the playoffs.

No matter what the course of this season, I will not waiver from my position that preseason w/l has absolutely NO predictive value, because winning is one, but no longer the only, goal of the effort.

I would trade no measure of regular season success [not one game, not on TD, not one 100 yd effort, not one first down] for all the pre-season success in the world.<P>

Dr. Red
08-25-2000, 01:48 PM
Morph - you got that right!

Unfortunately, it doesn't lessen the point of this topic right now. Believe me, I want to be wrong about the attitude of this team. I'm just giving my observation of what I've seen over 3 preseason games.

08-25-2000, 01:54 PM
ChiTown: I would second that. I think the reason for the trepidation is the result of KC's habits of looking listless/confused during the regular season.

It's not comforting to see it at any point, preseason, regular season, post season.

Dr. Red
08-25-2000, 01:55 PM
JC -

one more time for the viewing audience.

I DON"T CARE ABOUT WINS OR LOSSES IN PRESEASON(that was said softly, just with emphasis)

I do care about player attitude and execution. Both have been poor thru 3 games of preseason. 0-3 and signs of progress would get 0 comment from me. 0-3 with a backwardation curve, gets a comment.

Hope this is now clear, as I am tired of re-typing the same point over and over. By the way JC, I'm not real sure how you proved my detective work wrong, but I'm sure it was hidden somewhere in the comments

~missing his secret decoder ring

08-25-2000, 02:07 PM
Chitown - I don't think this team is happy with losing either, and you can tell Gun is about to explode if they lose again. Look how hard he has run them after the last couple of losses. I really believe that some of the leaders on this team would start kicking people butts if they started taking it easy, I could easily see Grunhard pushing people around if they started acting like that.

Reasons this team wants to win this season, DT, Moon's last season, Szott's last season, and prob Hasty's last season. If our team does not step up and play for these guys it just isn't going to.

08-25-2000, 02:13 PM
Other than the turd we laid against S.F., the other 2 games were close. If we were 2-1 right now, we would be slobering all over ourselves, predicting greatness.
I think we're going to see the boys step up tonight and bust some heads.

08-25-2000, 02:24 PM
Aside from the SF game which was a total disaster, we had a chance to win the other two games, but did not because inexperienced guys who hadn't played a lot made errors. We held the Titans to under 20, and aside from a couple of broken plays, we would have done the same to JVille. I'm still confident that our starters when in there the entire game will get something going, cut down the defensive breakdowns, dominate up front and wear them out, and get their big plays in the 2nd half of ballgames. That is just how this team is built, and it is not optimized for preseason type play when everyone leaves at or before halftime. And I guess our 2nd stringers aren't as good as these other teams' second stringers...

08-25-2000, 02:25 PM
I agree that this is a poor attitude. I haven't been too impressed with Cunningham. Maybe it is just some of his staff that is bringing him down. They need to figure out a way to get the players motivated.

08-25-2000, 02:25 PM
I beg to differ from the "preseason doesn't mean a thing" crowd. In the 90's if a team went 0 for the preseason, they had a 13% chance of having a winning season (2 out of 15 had winning seasons).

We all know that history and sports go together also. I don't think we want to try and buck history either.

Carolina is already in at 0-fer. We don't want to join them.

Gracie Dean
08-25-2000, 03:03 PM
Chi-Town - I wasn't so much trying to refute you as just disagree. the hunnert percent. . . Lou comment is a quote from Fargo [say the line with an exagerated Dakota accent] and meant to connote levity in my comment.

I really think a little levity is appropriate. this last year [01/01/00 to present] has been a downer in a number of ways Chiefs-wise. The loss to the Raiders and the loss of DT are real losses. The jettisoning of Tamarick, Bam, Rison, etc., are changes. EVERTHING ELSE, the effect of the Raiders loss, the effect of DTs loss, the effect of having to jettison criminals from the team, the moaning on the radion, the moaning on this board [and predecessor boards], AND THE PRESEASON all lies in the realm of speculation.

Might the Chiefs fall on their face? Maybe. Might they get off to a slow start? Maybe. Might they have something up their sleeves? Maybe.

Until you strap on the pads with winning as the ONLY goal, nothing can reliably be predicted from preseason performance. If so, the hundreds of free throws we always hear Shaq sinks in practice would be reflected in his game stats. the hospitals near his home would be flooded with injured kids every time he played pickup basket with them.

Some would say, you need the pre-season to develop winning attitude. I say, if you can't summon a winning attitude at will, you don't belong in professional sports.

By the start of next week, the Chiefs will either have or not have what it takes to win in the regular season. I know its a great unprovable, but I don't think that the preseason games give us any RELIABLE insight into whether they do or not.

Dr. Red
08-25-2000, 03:12 PM
JCJ - agreed.

Looking forward to talking football with you in 2000.

GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

08-25-2000, 03:30 PM

I would like to point out that the Ravens have gone 4-0 the past three years in pre-season.....They haven't had a winning season yet.

While I'm not happy with what I've seen so far, winning the pre-season crown means bumpkis.

Misplaced Chiefs Fan
Red and Gold on the Warpath
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