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redshirt32
09-10-2000, 03:41 PM
Finally he is fired. If I behavied towards my students the way he does, not only would I be fired, but would probably be in jail.

Yosef_Malkovitch
09-10-2000, 03:46 PM
Yes Pam, and I doubt that your students would be as disciplined or show the academic excellence that Coach Knights do either.

[This message has been edited by Kurt Surber (edited 09-10-2000).]

AustinChief
09-10-2000, 03:48 PM
I defend Knight to the end, but he was wrong on this one. He knew the consequences of his actions. Even if his story was true (and probably was considering the source of the accusation), he broke the agreement with Indiana University.

Sorry BK, I hope you do well elsewhere.

redshirt32
09-10-2000, 03:49 PM
Well actually Kurt, my students are well disciplined and excell in their academics. Most of my students are taking college classes their Junior year.

Thanks
Pam

redshirt32
09-10-2000, 03:51 PM
Besides Kurt,

Terror is NOT discipline!

AustinChief
09-10-2000, 03:59 PM
Pam,

I don't believe that Isaiah Thomas, Keith Smart, or Steve Alford have ever led me to believe they were terrorized.

Funny that the only boys who complain about Knight are ones who were removed from his program. In fact, the one who supposedly was choked to submission has turned out to be a blatant liar regarding the specifics of his accusations per the very tape that caught the act.

------------------
Puttin' on my game face!

Yosef_Malkovitch
09-10-2000, 04:03 PM
Russ-Why are we letting ourselves get caught up in this? We will soon be met with a comment like "keep it in your pants" or a comment about how awful it is to live in such a backward part of the country.

AustinChief
09-10-2000, 04:07 PM
Kurt - I just want to be on record that although I support the decision to fire Knight, it has nothing to do with his past.

He had the rules laid out before him and per his description of events, he broke them. That should be the only bearing on the decision, not what was supposedly done 15 years ago.

redshirt32
09-10-2000, 04:07 PM
Russ,

I am not aware of all the specifics, I just hate educators that use their position and think they are above the rest of us.

I had a teacher once that really ridiculed a student (classmate) It was awful, mean and hateful. That night the student shot himself. Granted he probably had other things driving him as well, but I am positive that being ridiculed that bad in front of all other students played a part.

I keep that in my mind and heart each time I step into my classroom.

Kurt,
I am sorry you are that way.

AustinChief
09-10-2000, 04:15 PM
Pam - Knight is not an educator, he is a coach. Nothing he has done has made me believe that he thinks he is above anyone.

This particular incident, no matter which side you believe, BK addressed a child who initially acted rudely to him.

If a student walked into your classroom and said, "Hey Dawson, how's it going?" would you simply act as if it hadn't occurred?

Now in defense of the boy, if his story is true, Knight handled it entirely wrong - for today's new age thinking.

If Knight's story is true, then Knight handled it wrong because he was told to NEVER touch another student, and he admitted to touching him. Had he not had the zero tolerance over his head, I would disagree with his expulsion, but he knew the rules, period.


Funny thing is the kid who started the altercation is the stepson of the most vocal naysayer on the Bloomington airwaves of BK. How proud his father must be that he has raised such an arrogant, assinine child. If he keeps up the pattern, he can either work with daddy in shock radio or start helping fat boys on the Star create articles.

redshirt32
09-10-2000, 04:19 PM
The only thing that I would have said was It is Mrs. Dawson or Mrs. D.

But I am probably not as conventional. I hi-five my students and say awesome and way to go always. If that is the whole basis for his (Knights) anger than he needs to get a grip.

AustinChief
09-10-2000, 04:24 PM
Pam, As I stated earlier, since he broke his agreement, I agree with you and he needs to be dismissed.

However, I believe as a society we are much too lenient with our children today, and it is starting to bite us on our faces.

Columbine could not have happened 20 years ago, the boy in Ky who shot his teacher for his early dismissal would not have occurred 15 years ago.

Why does it happen today? Because there is no interest in what our children do in their spare time and we actually praise our children for the lack of respect they show to their elders.

redshirt32
09-10-2000, 04:24 PM
And Russ,
NOt that I want to fight with you, I consider coaches and teachers in the same capacity when it comes to kids. We all have an awesome responsibility and things we do affect lives either in a positive or negative way. I always want kids to look back on their experience with my class as positive.

redshirt32
09-10-2000, 04:28 PM
The decline in today's youth has nothing to do with what happens in the classroom, it has EVERY thing to do with their upbringing. As teachers nowdays, we are expected to "raise" the kids before we can teach them.

I know all about them being rude and disrespectful. I see my students in the hallways and how they act towards each other and other teachers.

We even had to put a clause about disrespect in our handbook...

Yes there is a decline in today's youth, but they also have a positive side if one can bring it out.

Nothing pleases me more than seeing a kid who sits for weeks without participating suddenly becoming vocal and active because I chose to react by not reacting.

Pam
stepping off the soapbox now.
going to watch Denver win http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/frown.gif

[This message has been edited by dawsonpa (edited 09-10-2000).]

Yosef_Malkovitch
09-10-2000, 04:28 PM
PAM-I have no idea what you are talking about. I was merely quoting you and bringing to your attention the hypocrisy behind you telling us how wonderful your student are and at other times telling us how backward the people in NW Arkansas are.

I am just very happy to say that my son will never have to school in a public environment that employes twisted individuals like yourself.

AustinChief
09-10-2000, 04:34 PM
Bobby Knight has acted the same way for the last 29 years. The sad fact is...he hasn't been past the second round of the tournament for the last 5 years. If his behavior was a REAL problem...why wasn't he fired when he was a WINNING coach. Indiana needed to step up and ADMIT that Knight became expendable when he stopped fielding teams that threatened a National Championship.

--AustinChief
'Not a fan of Bobby Knight...but very disappointed in IU.'

redshirt32
09-10-2000, 04:34 PM
Kurt.

I am glad that your son won't subject us teachers to your hateful mean self-centered attitude. The fact that you would willingly subject your son to a coach such as Mr. Knight and want to keep him away from a teacher like me that is a strong student advocate and willing to see the best in everyone even when it is obvious that there probably is not there in some shows me your twisted logic and as ignorant as you seem to think I am.

If You don't recognize homesickness then you are truely ignorant. I am through arguing and I would appreciate it if you would not follow me from post to post. If you hate me as you imply, then don't listen to me.

[This message has been edited by dawsonpa (edited 09-10-2000).]

AustinChief
09-10-2000, 04:39 PM
I didn't think this was a "fight" Pam, I merely disagree with your hasty assesment of the situation with BK.

On another slant, you lost me altogether on that post. Where did I state that today's youth is due to the classroom? I stated it is society's fault.

And I understand the disrespect clause in the handbooks, every student has one today. But I have yet to see one action taken for the breaking of a disrespect agreement. Flowery words are very nice, but if they are not enacted, they are merely wasted poetry.

*Just starting on my soapbox*

AustinChief
09-10-2000, 04:41 PM
BTW - Unless Denver can score 28 points in one quarter and keep the Atlanta offense off the field altogether, you are going to be wrong on that as well.

bishop_74
09-10-2000, 04:42 PM
Man... I can't believe he even allowed himself into that situation! Even if he didn't shake the kid around & curse at him, he should have known better! He was under a zero-tollerence 'probation' - where any little thing could get him fired. He should have just kept walking; so what if the kid calles you by your last name!? It was NOT his place to teach the kid manners.

Oh well... so ends the last chapter on a storied career.

redshirt32
09-10-2000, 04:43 PM
Russ,

I was just trying to say that I don't think that what you said was all that disrespectful. Not to take it to the extreme that BK did. I would just say hey, next time address me in the proper manner.

But it is hard to describe disrespect because what is disrespect to one person is not the same as the other. Each person has their tolorance.

[This message has been edited by dawsonpa (edited 09-10-2000).]

AustinChief
09-10-2000, 04:43 PM
Kyle - I halfway agree with you. I have not been happy with post season play for almost a decade (I am an IU alum). And I wouldn't have complained about dismissing him 5 years ago for performance on the wood.

However, the University did all it could to attempt to keep the Indiana public and BK happy with the zero tolerance policy. BK had his chance, and he blew it.

redshirt32
09-10-2000, 04:45 PM
Russ,

What???? Denver will win http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/frown.gif they are up 42 to 14 and Atlanta looks awful.

[This message has been edited by dawsonpa (edited 09-10-2000).]

AustinChief
09-10-2000, 04:46 PM
Pam - I find it VERY disrespectful. If one of my kids friends come into my home, I am "Mr. Bliss", period. They had better not call me by my first name, nor had they better use my last name without Mr. attached. They get one attempt at the education of addressing a senior. If they make the mistake a second time, they can go home and expect a call from me to their parents. Nor would they be welcome back without an explicit apology.

Zero tolerance of poor attitude should begin at home, not with adult coaches.

AustinChief
09-10-2000, 04:48 PM
Pam - LOL.... I just checked a leader board on ESPN and they had the names of all the active games reversed. I hit reload and now it seems more accurate. You are correct, my mistake.

redshirt32
09-10-2000, 05:58 PM
Russ,

I wondered if you had gone crazy. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/smile.gif

Yosef_Malkovitch
09-10-2000, 06:03 PM
pam-

1.I am far from ignorant, I don't make generalizations about people because of the area that they come from, the color that they are, their age, their political affiliation or their sex.

2.You do however show your ignorance by ripping my son. FYI my son happens to be one of the most well adjusted, happiest, caring, forgiving people that walk the face of the earth. To say that he will be self centered and hateful with no factual evidence of that is ignorant (your word.) I will allow you lattitude on this point however, I understand, it is just the liberal way, attack without factual basis to back it up.)

3.I hate no-one. I do have an extreme dislike for your antics however. They are not based on a perception of you because of what you do for a living, your sex or where you are from. They are based on comments that you have made to me and others from the KC.com BB. The ones that I was particularly offended by were (as noted) the "keep it in your pants" comment and several references to how ignorant people from NW Arkansas are. Both of these instances are very offensive to me. That is why I admit I have a dislike for you.

4.I prefer not to argue as well. I tend to lean toward a debate, using facts as the basis for my opinion.

5.Please don't flatter yourself to think I will follow you to any other posts (you must be a very paranoid person.) I can't imagine that you would think that I would waste my time on such pettiness. Usually I tend to find it very easy to ignore your posts, however your name calling (I know, I regret that I stooped to your level) is difficult for me to ignore.<P>

redshirt32
09-10-2000, 06:03 PM
And Russ like I said, what is disrespect to some is not to others. I don't mind my daughters friends calling me pam.

redshirt32
09-10-2000, 06:18 PM
Kurt,

1. It is not wrong to point out differences as I have done when we first moved here, and it was not constant nor was it hateful.

2. I was not ripping your son, actually I was ripping you. I feel sorry for your son.

3. I dislike you as well.

4. Taken out of context as you so often do, those comments would seem rather rude, but if you had taken the things as a whole and not ignored the reason for the flames, then you might learn something.

5. Not follow me????Come on, every time I post you are quick to point out as you see it a flaw in my logic or tell me how ignorant I am or make comments like "wonder when she will bring up...."

Well how is this.

1. I hate living in Arkansas WHY Because my family all of my family is in Kansas.

2. SOME Men sometimes think they are full of themselves and think they know what is right for women and that includes thinking that all we need to set us straight is either a good lay or a good beating... NOt true??? check out the crime section of any paper.


See you.

[This message has been edited by dawsonpa (edited 09-10-2000).]

AustinChief
09-10-2000, 06:29 PM
Pam and Kurt,

I try to stay out of these things...but a funny story about Northern Arkansas: I was there with my father (years ago) on a rafting trip. We stopped in Bentonville at a 7-11 to get snacks...a 50-60 year old man starting talking to my father about the FACT that he was excite that the Miss USA contest was on TV later that night. My dad was being nice and responded with some polite comment back. The older man then continued to explain that he was even happier that it was the Miss TEEN USA contest!!!

Now in defense of Northern Arkansas...it was one of my favorite rafting trips and despite the dirty old men...EVERYONE I met seemed genuinely nice.

I live in Texas and make derisive comments from time-to-time...but it is hard for anyplace to stand up to a comparison with KC http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/smile.gif

--AustinChief<BR>

Yosef_Malkovitch
09-10-2000, 06:35 PM
pam-You win, you really put me in my place.

Just one last thing though, Pam stated;

"5. Not follow me????Come on, every time I post you are quick to point out as you see it a flaw in my logic or tell me how ignorant I am or make comments like "wonder when she will bring up...."

I have never intentionaly followed you with the intent to discredit you, you do a fine job of that without any help. I DO NOT post every time I see you post, rarely would be more like it. I have NEVER, EVER, EVER said that you were ignorant. Until now that is.

If I have offended you please forgive me. (At leas that makes me feel better to know that if I have offended someone I can ask for forgiveness rather than justify my actions.)<P>

redshirt32
09-10-2000, 06:37 PM
AustinChief,

My husband heard the other day about a marriage between a 40 something man and a 14 year old girl. They live in a hollar.

Also, one of my students told me about his grandpa's still...<BR>

Kckrazy
09-10-2000, 06:50 PM
What Myles Brand and the University did was shameful...They fired him back in May but were too dishonorable to make it official then because of their own self interest...Those chicken $hit people waited until the players were enrolled so that they couldn't all walk without losing eligibility time and to collect the season ticket money...Myle Brand said today that no event that has transpired since the "Zero Tolerance" policy was put in place that could have him removed, but that he showed a pattern of not wanting to honor the agreement...Either he violated the policy or he didn't...They fired him in May and were just waiting for some ticky tack BS to make it official...Whether you love or hate Bobby, you can not agree with what they did to the kids for their own self interest...I grew up with Pat Knight in Bloomington. We have been pretty good acquaintances for 20 plus years, when I last talked to him in July I was told there would have been 6 plus top players that would have left...These players told Myle Brand directly that they were gone if Knight left...There is no doubt in my mind he pulled this stunt so that the basketball team wouldn't be completely dismantled and have to field a team with a collection of embarrassing walk-ons...

AustinChief
09-10-2000, 06:51 PM
JL - Interesting... thanks for the info.

Duck Dog
09-10-2000, 07:22 PM
Pam and Kurt,

Every student should give their teachers respect, regardless whether in public, private, or home.

Public school has a lot of problems because over the past 30 years we embraced every new fangled program that came along: fuzzy math, whole language, etc., and abandoned things that worked: phonics, reading for comprehension, curriculum that worked.

Parents opted out in raising their children. The classroom then became much more difficult when you don't have parental involvement with their childrens' education.

Teachers, in general, gave up local control (shared with parents) to the all-knowing, yet bungling and inflexible state and fed bureacracy. Funding is tied to specific pet programs of legislators and politicians.

Who suffers? The kids.

If you ask me, we got just what we deserved. As a society we have abrogated our responsibilities to a hapless bureacracy that is only too willing to screw things up. We screwed our kids, and it's our own fault...

http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/mad.gif<BR>