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View Full Version : Grbackers clearly in the minority...


flowergirl
09-03-2000, 09:04 PM
at least among ticket-purchasing fans. I agree that booing your own team is pretty lame, but when Grbac was introduced (yes, before the game had even started), he was met with about a 50/50 mix of cheers and boos.

After his last atrocious pass attempt, he was booed off the field by a chorus of boos like I've never heard before. He just stood there with his hands on his hips, staring at the crowd. Who knows what he was thinking, but his body language suggested that his spirit was broken.

Like it or not, his support is rapidly dwindling.

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This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!

Sackman
09-03-2000, 09:08 PM
I'm not sure I get the thinking behind some fans. Many think he sucks, yet readily admit that if he goes down the season is definately in the tank. What gives?

You play with who ya have. At least with the RB's there is an alternative to Bennett's 1/2 yard runs.

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Donkhater

Michael Michigan
09-03-2000, 09:15 PM
C'mon Clint, what support? This guy is probably the most hated athlete currently playing for a pro franchise in this city. He's never going to win over the fans here. I've already said that he could throw 6 TD's, no INT's, 400 yards, and if the reciever drops a pass at the end of that game to lose it, Grbac is going to get booed.

If his spirit was going to be broken, it would have happened a long time ago. This game certainly wasn't going to do it. He's a guy that cannot afford to make a single mistake or cannot afford his teammates to make a single mistake otherwise he is going to get vilified. I saw some good things out there. I saw a competetive fire and I saw him make precision 3rd down passes to keep drives alive but get them dropped, I saw him throw 2 TD's and have a 3rd dropped. There was no support out there. The INT was a killer, but not the only culprit. His last atrocious pass attempt came a play after a very nice pass which was droped by Alexander. A guy is not going to be on the money every time. Manning threw a bad INT at the goal line, had two others dropped, and badly overthrew a wide open reciever in his end zone, but he could afford to get away with it because his team was not playing like crap around him. This is not to try and compare the two, because Manning is obviously much better, but I've seen him have better days...

Sackman
09-03-2000, 09:20 PM
Hell DaWolf, Manning should have been intercepted three times. Hasty and Edwards dropped two. Maybe they thought they were KC receivers.

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Donkhater

ck_IN
09-03-2000, 09:20 PM
Excellent post, Wolf...Sad but true.

mikey23545
09-03-2000, 09:46 PM
One thing is for sure, Elvis Grbac is NOT a championship caliber QB and never will be.

How long do we have to go through this? He did improve from being the second worst QB in the entire league in 98 last year. But he's still mistake waiting to happen. He's not dependable. He definitely not a playmaker.

Why can't KC bite the F'n bullet and get a playmaking star under center?!?!?!

I like our starting HB.
I like Morris and Lockett.
We have a great O-line.
We have a great TE.

The only thing missing on O is an accurate QB who can improvise and make the right decisions at the right times.

Those last two throws at the end of the game were terrible.

mikey23545
09-03-2000, 09:49 PM
Has anyone ever heard of an audible?

Why can't Grbac do this? If any of you ever watch K-State, you'll see that their starting QB calls new plays at the line of scrimmage routinely. He's a college QB and he can handle it, why can't Grbac?<P>

Sackman
09-03-2000, 09:49 PM
OK Cannibal, I agree. But would Collins or Moon be better. I doubt it. Clearly he had a good enough season last year to warrent another year. Besides, who was available? George? No thanks.

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Donkhater

09-03-2000, 09:52 PM
Elvis would be much better if he had some mobility. If qwe are going to employ a 'classic' pocket passer..he had better get more accurate. The dropped balls don't help either.

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~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

mikey23545
09-03-2000, 09:55 PM
We need to trade up in the draft and get a QB.

The Chiefs missed out in 99. They could have taken Daute Culpepper in the first round, or they could have taken Shaun King in the second round last year, but instead they took Mike Cloud.<P>

Sackman
09-03-2000, 09:57 PM
Culpepper was gone before the Chiefs drafted. They could've had 'The Freak' though. You can have Shaun King.

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Donkhater

DaKCMan AP
09-03-2000, 09:57 PM
Cannibal - Culpepper was taken before our pick (#11, I believe?). Even if he was available I still would have gone with Tait. King is not that great either, but he is better than grbac probably.

Michael Michigan
09-03-2000, 09:57 PM
OK, maybe the last throw was terrible, but the throw before that was right in the breadbasket for Alexander, all he had to do was catch it and the last throw wouldn't have been made.

Tell me exactly how to bite the bullet and get a star QB under center? There aren't many of them in the NFL that are available. Elvis was likee No 3 or 4 in the AFC last year. That should tell you how many better QB's there are.

To me, blaming Grbac for today is like saying Troy Aikman is a horrible QB after his team collapsed around him today. There are way more pressing concerns about this team than the QB. 8 dropped passes and a bend but try to get the turnover defense are more pressing concerns. Dumb penalties are more pressing concerns. Not dropping interceptions is a more pressing concern. Better punts and better punt coverage are more pressing concerns. MAybe Grbac isn't a Super Bowl caliber QB, but this team around him is obviously not super bowl caliber. Is Troy Aikman not Super Bowl caliber now or does his team suck? Was Chris Chandler Super Bowl caliber, or was his supporting cast excellent? Neil O'Donnell? Hostetler? Rypien? There are not too many Favres or Elways available out there. We need to concentrate on making this team better, not just the QB. Sure, if you find a Super Bowl QB out there, bring him in, but IMO there are way more pressing concerns than a guy who accounted for all our offense by throwing 2 TDs and has 8 passes dropped.

mikey23545
09-03-2000, 09:59 PM
I thought Culpepper was taken with the 15th pick.

My mistake if he was taken earlier.

Raiderhader
09-03-2000, 10:02 PM
I was disappointed in different aspects of Elvis' play today, but I am not yet willing to give Elvis to the citizenry banging at the castle door to hang him from the gallows.

We had a large number of people to blame today.

mmaddog
**************

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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

mikey23545
09-03-2000, 10:02 PM
Da Wolf,

That throw to DA was on second down.

There were TWO throws after that on 3rd and 4th down and they were both horribly off target. And the WR was wide open on that last one.

There were a lot of drops, but some of them were caused by throws that were nearly uncatchable.

Sackman
09-03-2000, 10:03 PM
Very true DaWolf. How did KC get behind? Penalty on a punt moved them back from the 50 to the 19. three and out. Punt return to the 30. Field goal. Kc is behind. Without the penalty, Kc has the ball at mid-field in a tie game. I'm not saying Grbac isn't to blame, but is it little wonder how come solid teams have good QB play? Sure the QB plays well, but the team doesn't put him in a bad position. Aikman looked awful good in the early 90's. He looked like sh*t today. Coincidence?

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Donkhater

mikey23545
09-03-2000, 10:04 PM
G-man,

Who would you rather have right now...

Mike Cloud or Shaun King?

Sackman
09-03-2000, 10:06 PM
So they were uncatchable Cannibal. Did Peyton put the ball where he should all game? Show me a QB who didn't throw a bad pass today and I'll show you a QB who didn't play. Grbac got it done on that drive. Alexander dropped it. If a few mistakes aren't tolerated by Elvis, how the hell can you tolerate the play of the rest of the team?

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Donkhater

DaKCMan AP
09-03-2000, 10:09 PM
Cannibal - King. But I'm not sold on him either as a SB QB. Of course, he probably better, and cheaper, than Grbac.

Michael Michigan
09-03-2000, 10:10 PM
Cannibal,
After further review, you are right. He still should have caught the 2nd down pass. The 3rd one was overthrown as I recall it now moreso because the guy was well covered and it was one of those take the next play kind of things. The 4th down pass was definitely a bad one.

As far as the King question, you take him away from Keyshawn, Carl Williams, Dunn, Alstott, and that great D, and I betcha he looks pathetic out there for us...

Sackman
09-03-2000, 10:11 PM
Do you honestly think King would do better than Grbac on this team? They protect him more in Tampa than the Chiefs do Elvis. Why is he succesful? Because that Defense gets the O the ball with great field position and Alstott and Dunn are actual running backs. Why can't fans see that?

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Donkhater

Sackman
09-03-2000, 10:13 PM
BTW, Buffalo and Tennessee both look tough. This is a great game on ESPN, if you aren't watching.

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Donkhater

DaKCMan AP
09-03-2000, 10:14 PM
Da Wolf - You're right. I think they ran the same, or similar, play on 3rd and 4th. The 3rd down play was well covered, the 4th down play was wide open.

Donkhater - Skill-wise, they're probably similar (Grbac probably has a better arm), but I think King is smarter. I agree, he wouldn't put this team over the top.

DaKCMan AP
09-03-2000, 10:15 PM
I might go watch it. I caught the 1st half and Rob Johnson was looking good.

mikey23545
09-03-2000, 10:15 PM
King will be [probably already is] a better QB than Grbac and we could have had him.<P>

revolver808
09-03-2000, 10:23 PM
DaWolf,

Post #2 there hit it RIGHT on the head. Dead-on center.

Duck Dog
09-03-2000, 10:26 PM
Man that is so STUPID!!!

You blame Elvis for his bad trows, and saw how after this game it just proves he's not a SB QB. So what does that make TG? heck I saw 3 Drops by him alone.

And Again, the 3rd & 4th Pass attempts in the endzone SHOULD NEVER HAVE EVEN HAD TO BE PLAYED!!!! Alexander dropped a ball I could have caught, yet I see no one calling for his head.

Just admit, no matter what you hate EG, and even if he won the SB, you would find anyone else BUT HIM to give credit to.

IF you want to bash him, at least be fair, and spread the blame were it is due, TE & WR's to start.

mikey23545
09-03-2000, 10:28 PM
We have bashed the other players as well on other threads.

This thread is about Grbac, so that's what we discussed.<P>

09-03-2000, 10:29 PM
John- Thank you! A voice of reason. If DA makes the catch Elvis is a hero.

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~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

redshirt32
09-03-2000, 10:31 PM
No, DA would have been the hero.

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WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH, THE TOUGH GET GOING!

Michael Michigan
09-03-2000, 10:33 PM
I just think for most QB's the system and the supporting cast has a lot more to do with it than the QB. There are certain guys that trancend that (ie Elway). Then there are certain guys who are tailor made for the system and the teammates (ie Aikman). Then there are certain guys who will just look better when placed in a certain system and environment than other systems and environments, those QB's who may be adequate but who do not really raise the level of play of their teammates around them like the great ones do. I think both King and Grbac are in this category. I think either one would look a hell of a lot better under center for the Broncos or the Rams than they would under center for us. Heck Mike Shanahan likes Elvis, and he performed for Shanahan in SF. Over here, this offense is not run by Shanahan, and we are not what San Francisco was...

Sackman
09-03-2000, 10:33 PM
You're not going to get an argument from me that QB shouldn't be upgraded. It can be. Who'll be available this coming year? Green? I have my doubts how he'll do away from Martz's system and talent. I like Ray Lucas and if you really want to take a flyer on someone, how about Matt Hasslebeck in Green Bay? Of course Drew Brees or Micheal Vick would be nice too.

The reson why I support EG is because right now they is no alternative other than Collins or Moon. Nuff said. But as far as the RB position is concerned, Bennett's carries can be given to TRich. Problem solved.

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Donkhater

Michael Michigan
09-03-2000, 10:34 PM
JOhn,
People ripped Grbac after he put Stoyo in position to miss the FG last year and we lost in overtime...

Duck Dog
09-03-2000, 10:35 PM
Cannibal
My point is this is a truely "bad" (being nice) topic. Elvis played VERY well. The INT was because of a hit to the arm. Can manning say as much for his INT and 2 almost INT's?

Yea he made a couple of bad trows in the end zone, but again they should never have been nessacary.

If not for the Numerous dropped balls Elvis would have had a near perfect game, and yet HE gets the blame for factors which he has no control.

Cannibal
09-03-2000, 10:36 PM
test<BR>

Chiefaholic
09-03-2000, 10:36 PM
One of the posts earlier said we needed to trade up and get a QB well I don't want to trade up to #2 and get a Ryan
Leaf. I'll take Elvis over this #2 anyday. Yes we do need to get a QBOTF but lets be very choosy. Favre did the same thing at the end of his game trying to get a win. No I am not saying they are the same but SB QB's and our QB does some of the same mistakes. At least he is trying.It takes more than one person to make this a winning team.

redshirt32
09-03-2000, 10:38 PM
You say they shouldn't have had to throw those passes at the end of the game. Well I ask you this who is the offensive leader on the field?

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WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH, THE TOUGH GET GOING!

Sackman
09-03-2000, 10:39 PM
I have my doubts on whether this current coaching staff can develop a QB (or a RB or a WR). May have to dump Raye to get a good QB. If Gun is too loyal, then he's too dumb to be the head coach.

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Donkhater

Cannibal
09-03-2000, 10:40 PM
The one thing that Grbac has cost us is the shot at a decent F/A QB in the last few years a his ego is as fragile as his body.

And does anyone else get pissed when he doesn't even try to tackle they guy that made the interception. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/frown.gif

Yosef_Malkovitch
09-03-2000, 10:42 PM
Good Post Da Wolfe in #2.

The QB play was not our problem today.

Indy would not have had their first TD if Hasty catches the ball.

Our third drive would not have stalled if Alexander catches the 3rd down pass that he had both hands on.

Indy's first Field Goal would not have happened if Edwards makes the interception that hits him in both hands.

In this last case, and in the case of the punt return being called back, we would have given our O (and our QB) the ball in good field position. (What was our ave. starting field position? It must have sucked).

And of course, that doesn't mention DA dropping the TD pass when we would have had about 3 minutes left on the clock to get the ball back (BTW, I thought that was a WELL managed Two Minute Drill TD drive ~ where are the critics that said Grbac wasn't capable of this?)?

And it doesn't mention several other first down passes that were dropped.

He didn't have a perfect game, but blaming the QB for this one is not only not objective... it is very, very weak.

Luz
give moreau the ball...

Sackman
09-03-2000, 10:43 PM
Look again Michigan, he got blocked out of bounds. Then he gets hurt on the tackle and people scream that he was stupid enough to leave us with Moon and Collins.

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Donkhater

Michael Michigan
09-03-2000, 10:43 PM
BTW, here's his explanation on his INT:

"That's one of the plays I wish I could take back. Obviously, being in position on the field, we couldn't turn the ball over. They came with what we call a dime blitz and they dropped the end off the backside. It was really, probably, the first time they did that in the game. I was trying to buy some time for Derrick (Alexander) to come across and Tony (Gonzalez) to develop on the play and I knew I had a blitz coming from the front side and I tried to move away from it a little bit. Cornelius (Bennett) got my arm and I was just one of those plays I wish I could have gotten the ball off a little quicker and it was just unfortunate that we got took all the way back."

Duck Dog
09-03-2000, 10:44 PM
Well I ask you this who is the offensive leader on the field??????????????

Well I would say ELVIS WAS & IS!!

But as he once said, Is he supposed to catch it also????????

I would say he lead this team VERY WELL!


FYI, just got done talking to my Brother-in-law, and as he saw it Elvis did get boed, but no worse than he was last year. What Amazed him was no one seemed to niticed that DA dropped a sure thing.

Has for standing there at the end of the games with his hands on his hips....

maybe he is wondering....

" what do these MORONS WANT??? I play good, yet I get Blamed for EVERYTHING!!"

At least thats what I would have thought.

Duck Dog
09-03-2000, 10:51 PM
Sorry If I sound harsh guys.

But it really chaps my a@@ to here EG get the blame when it obviously belongs elsewere.

I may be a homer, but when blame is to be placed on EG make it valid, and I will listen

Michael Michigan
09-03-2000, 10:52 PM
Maybe he was just disappointed in himself and the team's effort. I don't think the boos mean anything anymore.

As far as the Alexander drop, that was the final straw for me. I was watching the game in a large sports bar with my friend who is a Cowboys fan (he had a worse day than I did) and after that drop I was just so freakin' frustrated with the inept hands that were being shown that I stood up, threw my folded cloth napkin across the room, and yelled some unkind words at the big screen along with "Dammit, why the hell are we paying you $4 million a year if you can't catch the ****ing ball, you idiot! It's right there in your ****ing numbers. Catch the ****ing thing, dammit!" Needless to say, I had some people giving me a strange look after that outburst...<P>

redshirt32
09-03-2000, 10:52 PM
I am not negating the fact that the other players didn't do their jobs. But he is the one who choses who he throws to, and if some one keeps dropping the ball then throw to some one else.
BTW, has everyone forgotten about two years ago when EG came out after the Monday night loss to Pitt. and started naming off team mates that he thought played badly? I have hated him ever since then.

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WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH, THE TOUGH GET GOING!

Cannibal
09-03-2000, 10:53 PM
OK donkhater, on your suggestion I watched the play. Grbac was not blocked out of bounds, he was running out of bounds, (trying to avoid contact) and #53 of the Colts tried to cheap shot him. He made no effort to make the tackle.

Duck Dog
09-03-2000, 10:56 PM
Raider,
Unfortunatly he doeas not choose who is on the field. The coachs do. so he HAS to trow to who he has available, especially if they are the one OPEN in the end zone.

Trying to lay this on EG is truely a poor excuse.

Sackman
09-03-2000, 10:56 PM
Maybe he should have said it, but was he telling the truth? Yeah, he was. BTW, if his teammates have gotten past it, why can't a fan, who has nothing to do with the performance of this team, get over it? Obviously he's learned from the incident. Would you rather he didn't? No need to reply, I already know the answer.

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Donkhater

09-03-2000, 10:58 PM
Raiderhader- Why in Gods name would Elvis or any other QB not throw to DA in that circumstance? DA should have made the catch..period. Elvis did an adequate job today. Enough to win. If you want to bring up past mistakes then don't forget to mention Carl's mistake by going after Elvis and ot George.

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~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

Sackman
09-03-2000, 10:59 PM
Whatever Michigan. The guy isn't a linebacker and even you have lamented his lack of athleticism. Did you expect him to turn into Jr. Seau? Unbelievable!!!

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Donkhater

redshirt32
09-03-2000, 11:01 PM
First of all its raiderHADER (don't take it personal I just don't like being called raider). Secondly, why he may not decide who is on the field, he does decide who to throw to. And are you sure he was the only one open?

p.s. just call me rh for short

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WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH, THE TOUGH GET GOING!

AustinChief
09-03-2000, 11:03 PM
DuckDog,

Have to disagree with you there. Jeff George (arm of steel, brain of mush) has proven he can wrack up great statistics except in the Win column. I'm not convinced he'll ever amount to much more than a hired gun...even Minnesota would rather go with a second year player than keep him around.

I think the only place Grbackers are in the Minority is in the minds of certain individuals on this board.

If Hasty catches that interception right in his arms, then James never gets the chance to catch that screen. If DA hangs onto that touchdown in the endzone...that's a 14 point swing right there in those two plays.

No, there's enough blame to go around, if you get your rocks off blaming people instead of looking at what went right.

And lord knows, there's enough people who'd rather complain than look for good stuff.


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Misplaced Chiefs Fan
Red and Gold on the Warpath
Nightwolf Graphics (http://www.nightwolfgraphics.com)

Duck Dog
09-03-2000, 11:04 PM
Sorry RH http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/tongue.gif

No insult intended. But asgain to BLAME EG is very poor logic.

FYI I saw the reply and YES he was the only one open either in or out of the endzone

09-03-2000, 11:05 PM
Ok RH- And if DA makes the catch who's the hero? EG threw the ball to the open guy. The open guy happened to be his #1 rec. His #1 rec dropped the ball. AND THATS EG'S FAULT? I don't get it.

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~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

redshirt32
09-03-2000, 11:05 PM
I haven't forgotten about the decisions made in the front office. Although I must say that I'm glad we didn't get George 'cause I don't like him any better. As far the circumstances, look what happend! How do you explain that. And besides no one has been able to tell me that DA was the only open target.

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WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH, THE TOUGH GET GOING!

Cannibal
09-03-2000, 11:09 PM
dh-
I expect him to have some pride, and try to tackle the guy.<P>

redshirt32
09-03-2000, 11:11 PM
None offense taken. I am a hard guy to offend. Although that just about did it. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/smile.gif The hero? The more I think about it who takes credit for the glory the wide open receiver or the the guy who found the wide open receiver? C'mon. Sure you can't blame EG for throwing to the open target, unless the target has not been performing in the game.

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WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH, THE TOUGH GET GOING!

[This message has been edited by raiderhader (edited 09-03-2000).]

Michael Michigan
09-03-2000, 11:17 PM
RH,
I counted about 8 or 9 drops. 2 by Alexander, 1 by Cat, 2 by Gonzo, 1 by Drayton, 1 by Lockett, 1 by Anders, and maybe someone else had one there. Everyone was dropping them left and right. It's not like he had his choice of throwing it to some guy knowing they would definitely make the catch...

Duck Dog
09-03-2000, 11:17 PM
Michael Michigan,
Sorry but you are wrong. I watched my tape of the game. ELVIS was PUSHED in the back out of bounds as he was setting to try and tackle.

Also the reply just shown on channel 5 comfirmed this.

he was clearly PUSHED in the back out of bounds<BR>

09-03-2000, 11:18 PM
OK, RH, I'll try one more time...this time read more slowly. DA was open. EG hit his target...his target is his #1 receiver...his #1 receiver dropped the ball. And this is EG's fault, how?

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~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

Sackman
09-03-2000, 11:19 PM
Pride would've got you Collins or Moon starting next week in Tennessee. Credit EG for hustling over there and when he found out he couldn't make the play had brains enough to let it go and fight another day.

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Donkhater

Duck Dog
09-03-2000, 11:20 PM
DaWolf
Nice post. Who else was ther to trow to?

Maybe he should have trown to Rison...oops wait he's not here anymore.

Cannibal
09-03-2000, 11:23 PM
JOhn-

I just watched it again, Grbac was running out of bounds to avoid contact. TRich is there as is #53 for the Colts.

This is not the first time Elvis has done this, I'm sure it won't be the last.<P>

Sackman
09-03-2000, 11:24 PM
Good, becasue I don't want Collins or Moon QBing this team.

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Donkhater

Cannibal
09-03-2000, 11:26 PM
dh-

Is Elvis really so brittle that trying to tackle a 6' 190# DB is going to get him hurt?

Duck Dog
09-03-2000, 11:29 PM
Michael Michigan?????

I'm not sure what game you are looking at but I KNOW what I see.

EG was clearly looking at the ball carrier, and was in postion, albiet moving that direction, when he was SHOVED in the back.

The reply was just shown about 4 times on TV, and it is CLEAR he was looking at the ball carrier, and was SLOWIN down to be in postion.

I think you are seeing what you want to see, and not nessacarly what really happened.

Cannibal
09-03-2000, 11:33 PM
JOhn-

Please. He had no intention of trying to make a tackle. TRich dives at the guy and Elvis just tries to get out of the way.

#53 of the Colts does try to cheap shot Grbac, but doesn't quite get there.

I just re-ran it again, Mrs. Michigan sees the same thing.

Duck Dog
09-03-2000, 11:37 PM
"does try to cheap shot Grbac"

Not sure what to say, He CLEARLY does recieve a cheap shot to the back, bioth views showed it. I know that the reply on the News was different than the Game tape, maybe thats the difference, but it is Obvious from the TV news shots.

FYI, Mrs Edwards Agrees with me to, and she Hates EG http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/tongue.gif

Woodrow
09-03-2000, 11:39 PM
like it or not grbashers......elvis was not the problem today.....

any three year old could have seen the 8 dropped balls and the terrible special teams were to blame for the loss today.

elvis gets four of those eight caught (including the DA drop) and we are talking about how he outplayed manning today.

michael mighigan.......not sure what youre seeing......have watched it a couple times and he clearly was pushed in the back....why dont you go make something up on the lions board<BR>

jcl-kcfan
09-03-2000, 11:39 PM
I continue to back Grbac.
Those that place all the blame on him today are oversimplifying the problems IMO.

{just chosing my side}

Cannibal
09-03-2000, 11:44 PM
JOhn-

So what you're saying is, if Grbac would have tried to make the tackle instaed of trying to avoid contact he could have delivered the blow, instead of receiving it?

Still laughing at the fact that you believe Grbac even knows how to "set up" to make a tackle.

Duck Dog
09-03-2000, 11:49 PM
Michael Michigan
No what is funny is how to continue to place blame on someone who CLEARLY does not deserve it.

IF he had made the tackle, or at least made contact, then gotten hurt you would have called him an idiot for letting it happen.

Does not matter what he does, you are gonna rip him. So whats the point?

Sorry I don't place blame unless it is due, and the fact that you a clear bias in regards to EG is sad.

Cannibal
09-03-2000, 11:53 PM
JOhn-

Sad? What is sad is Grbac's lack of competite juices. Still amazed that you guys think so little of Grbac's durability that trying to tackle a 6' 190# DB will get him hurt.

Duck Dog
09-03-2000, 11:55 PM
Michael.

Who said I was afraid he would get hurt? I said YOU would blame him if he did. Poinmt being that you will ALWAYS fault him.

According to your post you seem to be the one implying that he would get hurt.

"So what you're saying is, if Grbac would have tried to make the tackle instaed of trying to avoid contact he could have delivered the blow, instead of receiving it?"

Please do not put words in my mouth.<P>

Cannibal
09-04-2000, 12:00 AM
JOhn-

How does delivering the blow imply that he would have gotten hurt?

It's simple, you think he's good, I don't. We've yet to make the playoffs with him at the helm. I don't want him to get hurt, as I want him to play out this season and move on.

I stated that I get pissed when he throws picks then runs to the sidelines.

Duck Dog
09-04-2000, 12:02 AM
Guees we will have to agree to disagree. Because the film I watched on the news and my tape show something clearly different.

I was just sugesting that maybe your vision was clouded, by the fact you don't like him.

TEX
09-04-2000, 12:03 AM
This is a young Chiefs Team. I thought that we had a chance to win the game. Once Elvis' pass was tipped and intercepted for a TD the game was over. However, I do not blame Elvis. Alexander had an all right game, but when your team needs a touchdown and your quarterback puts the ball in the correct spot catch the damn ball. Drayton disappointed as well, I thought the two tight end set could have done more. But to Boo Elvis is silly, If we would only let him throw the ball 25 times per game, and run the ball I think the play action would work better. We need to establish ther run early (That does not mean just run the ball six times in your first six plays) but just keep them honest. I really don't think Elvis is the problem, Our D game up some big yards, and never really knocked Manning around.

Hoover

Cannibal
09-04-2000, 12:04 AM
JOhn-

And yours is crystal clear?

Duck Dog
09-04-2000, 12:07 AM
Michael Michigan
Not saying it is. But I'm willing to place blame when it is due. I'm just as willing to credit him when it's due, something I havn't seen you do with EG.

Again I never tried to INSIST anything, just made a suggestion.

Never mind, not gonna trade barbs back in forth with ya tonight. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/smile.gif<BR>

Cannibal
09-04-2000, 12:13 AM
JOhn-

As I don't watch your posts as closey as you do mine, I will take you at your word.

When is the last time Elvis did something to draw critisism from you?

Duck Dog
09-04-2000, 12:15 AM
Uh lets see.....

Spiking the Ball http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/smile.gif<P>

Cannibal
09-04-2000, 12:20 AM
JOhn-

As did I. So let's see, we got guy with a fairly good arm, no mobility, horrible clock management, terrible field sense, and not enough guts to be a football player when he has to.

Explain to me why we want him at QB for the Chiefs again?

badger
09-04-2000, 12:59 AM
Manning could have given up 3 ints today.
Manning did over throw a wide open receiver in the endzone. He did do a Elvis twirl to the sideline and enhanced it by running about 30 yards in the wrong direction.
He didn't have 8 balls dropped in critical 3rd down situations, one that would have been a TD.

I bet Colts fans aren't screaming for his head today. Oh but the Colts don't have a 44 year old back up!

mikey23545
09-04-2000, 01:10 AM
Maybe we should see if the Colts would trade us Manning for Grbac straight up since Manning is so terrible and Grbac is good. Think they'd go for it?

eyeraycolt
09-04-2000, 01:45 AM
I don't see any reasy to keep starting Girbac. So what if Collins sucks, so does Girlbac!
At least Collins really IS young enough to eventually develop.

I supported the idea of giving Girlbac time to develop. Ok, four years later and he still overthrows open wr's, he still stares down his target, he still throws int's at the worst of times, and he still doesn't have the heart to do the job.

We need a running back, and obviously a QB with a clue.

McNab, McNown, and Culpeper have already learned in a year what Girlbac couldn't in four....

badger
09-04-2000, 01:45 AM
Cannibal,
Thats my point. The colts would not trade Manning for Grbac. Although Manning probably made more mistakes than Grbac in todays game.

If Grbac threw three balls that should have been intercepted, or over threw a wide open receiver in the endzone, and did the Manning Twril dance, most on this board would be calling for his head.

No QB is perfect, as Manning and Farve showed us today. Although Grbac has to be, or it is his fault every time we lose a game.

Today we lost because of a poor running game, pathetic special teams, poor play calling, and 8 passes dropped that could have been for critical 1st downs and one more touch down.

Maybe if we took care of those things, we would not have had to be passing on 3rd and six from our own 14 yard line!

Michael Michigan
09-04-2000, 01:46 AM
I don't think he's trying to say Manning sucks and Grbac kicks *** , he's trying to say that even though Manning had probably a subpar game for himself, his teammates picked him up and he had the support to win. Grbac's teammates didn't rally help him much, with 73 or so yards rushing and 8 dropped passes. If Elvis' INT is dropped like Manning's other 2 were, or if Manning's other 2 are caught, it could have been a totally different game. But thems are the breaks. Indy is the better team, but we had our shots and didn't execute on many levels beyond just the QB...

Joe Seahawk
09-04-2000, 05:00 AM
Da Wolf...#13 was right on the money. Thank you for saving me from doing the typing!

AZ

AustinChief
09-04-2000, 09:00 AM
i'm sorry, i've been an ardent supporter for a long time, but i've had it. yes, i saw manning make some bad throws, but i didn't see him once make the kind of throw that lost the game. elvis wasn't panicking, he was forcing it...he was completely lost. he had a look on his face like 'what do i do with this thing now' and he threw a duck across the middle. everybody knows not to throw across the middle during a blitz at your own 20 yard line.

dropped passes can be corrected. low kicks can be corrected. elvis's obvious lack of the intelligence that it takes to master this game cannot be corrected. he didn't check off recievers, he didn't call any audibles, and he telegraphed every pass. and then he single-handedly lost the game. yes, that's what i said. despite the other mistakes, the game was still 17-14 and we were in it. grbac made a bonehead play and broke our back.

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ChiefsPlanet Administrator
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Yosef_Malkovitch
09-04-2000, 09:50 AM
hitsmage,

What game were you watching?

Grbac DID check off receivers (I saw him go to #3 onmore than one occasion).

He didn't stare down all his receivers (he even had a pump fake).

His arm was bumped on the interception (that happens to even Joe Montana types).

He took the blame for the interception anyway.

He conducted a GREAT two minute drill that drove the length of the field and should have given us a TD with 3 minutes left and only 3 pts down.

The only thing I can't comment on is knowing what he was thinking from seeing the look on his face. I've been in the people business all my life and I still can't do that.

Luz
get over the emotion folks, and take the good things from this game...

Tom_Barndts_Twin
09-04-2000, 10:19 AM
Cannibal-Those last 2 passes were ugly, but, if DA catches the first perfectly thrown pass-the other 2 never happen.
In all fairness to DA, his touchdown catch
was not great pass at all. It was a little behind him.
Elvis threw a great pass to a WIDE OPEN Drayton. Hit him right in the hands-he dropped it.

If people are just gonna bash Elvis-thats silly. You can point alot of fingers-not just EG.

Tom_Barndts_Twin
09-04-2000, 10:25 AM
htismaqe- Luz is right, his arm was bumped.
I didn`t see it until the replay.

I thought EG was spreading the ball around
pretty good.

Tom_Barndts_Twin
09-04-2000, 10:30 AM
htismaqe - How did EG lose the game?!
You didn`t see that perfectly thrown ball
to DA that was dropped?! Granted, the 2 pass
after that were nothing to right home about.

AustinChief
09-04-2000, 10:31 AM
Are some of us still at the rookie level of blaming every loss on the QB??? It is time to grow up.

We averaged a pathetic 3.1 yds per carry on the ground, our punting average was 10 yds less than the Colts, the Colts more than doubled our average punt returns, and MOST importantly - our special teams are still NOT tackling. For those of you who said that Sauerbraun was the answer - I guess you didn't read the entire question.

Those that booed Grbac first of all are the average uninformed passing fan and have been booing for 3 years. Gee, aren't they informed?

Now that said, Grbac had a pathetic 68.07 QB Rating. But he was passing more, he looked off of several receivers, and even ragged off one player who seemed sure of a sack.


If you are pathetic enough to boo someone, then boo the ST, the WR who dropped the balls, RB's who couldn't get passed the line of scrimmage, the sad punting, the defense, and Grbac.

This argument is getting old and those of you who truly believe that a loss like yesterday is due to the QB need to come up with some new points other than "He stares down his receivers".

ct
09-04-2000, 11:01 AM
We have so many more problems than Grbac, that I don't even consider him a problem. Hell, he was brought in to run a west coast offense, and then we drop Hackett, and go to smashmouth football, without the smash, then make him wait to throw, when everyone in the stadium knows we have to throw. Except of course, the wizard in the press box, then we run on 3rd and 20. The boos everyone heard in the first two series, had to be directed at JR, and his play calling. The ones at the end, probably at the whole team.

flowergirl
09-04-2000, 11:05 AM
Actually, it wasn't JUST Grbac getting booed. The play-calling caused boos on many occasions, as did the drops. Right or wrong, I think many fans are just sick of seeing the same thing year in and year out, when it's obviously not going to get this team to the next level.

There is NO WAY that everyone in Arrowhead that was booing is uninformed.

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This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!

flowergirl
09-04-2000, 11:06 AM
Actually, it wasn't JUST Grbac getting booed. The play-calling caused boos on many occasions, as did the drops. Right or wrong, I think many fans are just sick of seeing the same thing year in and year out, when it's obviously not going to get this team to the next level.

There is NO WAY that everyone in Arrowhead that was booing is uninformed.

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This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!

AustinChief
09-04-2000, 11:08 AM
Clint - Your opinion, not fact. "There is no way that everyone booing was uninformed".

As I stated, the argument is old. Find something new to whine about.

bigdaddychieffan
09-04-2000, 11:08 AM
Like it or not, the KC fan base let Gun & Co. hear it yesterday! We ARE fed-up with poor play calling, poor clock management, poor QB decisions, poor execution, lack of preparedness, et al. We use to have a damn good football team in this city.

ct
09-04-2000, 11:11 AM
I think the season of mediocrity is going to be more to blame for the boos, than any individual. The fans have come to expect a certain goal, the playoffs for instance, and are not going to tolerate less. Unfortunately, I am afraid they are going to have to. I still wonder, if the reason for the youth movement, is because our brain (?) trust, knows we are going downhill, and is going to try use it as an excuse for a bad season.

flowergirl
09-04-2000, 11:14 AM
I agree that there is much more to whine about than Grbac, like RBbC, DA inexplicably retaining the #1 WR spot, the 4 stooges (anyone that allows 3 stooges on his staff must be the 4th himself), poor tackling, an bad situation at corner, and the near total loss of the "Arrowhead mystique".

Let's just hope this team gets it together in a big way, and fast.

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This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!

AustinChief
09-04-2000, 11:15 AM
HC - I don't disagree with that sentiment.

However, I do disagree with the booing. You don't let your guests know what trouble you are having with your family.

If the GM and Owner are as heartless as several here make them out to be, then why do they care about the booing? Every boo is one more ticket sold.

AustinChief
09-04-2000, 11:17 AM
Clint - I have never given my personal opinion on Cunningham. I have always decided to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I tend to lean toward your last post and leaning more each day.

ct
09-04-2000, 11:18 AM
From what I have heard, from many pros athletes themselves, when you purchase the ticket, you purchase the right to express your opinion. Whether the fans are right or not, is another matter.

AustinChief
09-04-2000, 11:26 AM
KCRed - You are correct, and a person who chooses not to help the team will do as he chooses.

ct
09-04-2000, 11:33 AM
Wolf - I think a more serious problem than the booing, would be if the crowd quits cheering. The 12th man at Arrowhead is awesome, and there are always going to be some displeased fans. I fear by the end of the season, a silent crowd will be more indicative of the fans opinion, than the booing.

AustinChief
09-04-2000, 11:38 AM
KCRed - At least that would be honorable of the people in the stands. And I agree that it is the BEST way to let the staff know your disappointment.

micin
09-04-2000, 01:03 PM
What would happen if they introduced Carl Peterson? IMO, he is responsible for assembling the talent and hiring the head coach. He is the one that deserves the boos. Elvis is a career backup. Thats all he was before he arrived here. If San Fran couldnt develop him, why do the Chiefs think that they can? Peterson signed him and then sold him as a Super Bowl QB to the fans. Clearly, he is closer to a 4-12 QB than he is to a Super Bowl QB. You guys boo these players and coaches as if they have the smarts and talent to get the job done. None of them have succeeded in the past. Just because they work for the chiefs does not mean that they have the necessary skills and talent to take this team to the next level (a playoff appearance). It is clear that the problems are not with the personnel as much as they are with the man responsible for hiring the personnel (Peterson). I wish he would get introduce for once. The only time he ever shows his face is after a big victory.

Yosef_Malkovitch
09-04-2000, 01:12 PM
Packfan,

I hate to disagree with someone that says he knows more about football than Mike Ditka, but San Fran let go of Grbac because they couldn't afford to pay him like a starter while he was backing up Young ~ not because they didn't want him.

That kind of changes everything you're saying, doesn't it?

After all, if San Fran thought he was starting material (as you say, they have a VERY GOOD history of evaluating and developing QB talent), then maybe we should too.

Luz
but then i forgot that you know more about football than ditka and other nfl coaches too...

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
09-04-2000, 01:16 PM
I have to agree with Clint... the fans have turned their play calling towards to the coaches... not the players...

They are fed up with the game plan... fed up with the repeated mistakes... Just plain fed up that the coaches don't seem to learn from the past and keep repeating the same unsuccessful formula over and over...

This is Gun's fault... and Peterson's...<BR>

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
09-04-2000, 01:18 PM
I mean "turned their boos toward the coaches..."

Gotta wake up earlier! http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/wink.gif

redbrian
09-04-2000, 01:35 PM
I was at the game yesterday and I felt most of the booing going on had to do with the coaches and their play calling.Elvis is not the only one who made mistakes...dropped passes and stupid penalties cost us a game against a really good Colts team.You have to fault everyone on this one.They played their butts off...the intensity was there..unfortunately so were the mistakes.

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
09-04-2000, 01:39 PM
Here, here! Tracy, glad to hear from you! Have a great Labor Day!

KUChief
09-04-2000, 01:52 PM
What difference does it make whether or not San Fransisco could have developed Grbac into a starting quarterback? It is clear that the Chiefs don't have that ability. The guy has tons of ability, but the sad fact is when things get tough, he folds like a 10 dollar suitcase.

Duck Dog
09-04-2000, 07:51 PM
Brock,
Please inform me how he folded yesterday?
Or for that matter last season?

Please watch the game before you make uninformed opionins.

FACT is elvis played a good game yesterday.
2Td's And 1 that should have been.
1INT, from having his arm hit.

LOTS of dropped passes.

If those passes had been caught, it would have been a different game.

Elvis has the talent, but VERY little support. Average WR's, Jury still out on Morris. POOR OC.<P>

Kurt Surber
09-04-2000, 08:42 PM
This thread is a bunch of crap. The receivers dropped 8 balls maybe 9. Alexander dropped a TD. ON that critical interception his arm got hit by cornelius which changed the pass.

Sorry anybody down on Grbac's performance from yesterday don't know jack.

KUChief
09-04-2000, 11:25 PM
I'm going to have to agree with Adam Teicher on this one:

Grbac, playing without the pedigree of the
Colts' Peyton Manning and the running game of Edgerrin James, had matched Manning point for point on the scoreboard.

He had watched Chiefs receivers bat down catchable balls all day, passing for two touchdowns despite the drops. And then, something happened to Grbac, the same thing that always seems to happen to him in critical situations.

Grbac threw a bad pass at the worst possible time, and the Colts stole away from Arrowhead Stadium with a 27-14 victory, the Chiefs' first home-opener loss in 12 seasons.

"That's one of the plays," Grbac said wistfully, "I wish I could take back." <BR>

Kurt Surber
09-04-2000, 11:39 PM
Grback didn't throw the pass uninterrupted and there is nothing he could of done but with hindsight take it back and take a sack because he would've know bennett was there.

His arm got hit clearly on all the replays why are we arguing about his performance? This is silly. The receivers were clearly sucking yesterday or does absolutely no one know anything about football including Adam Teicher.

Kurt Surber
09-04-2000, 11:42 PM
You know what!!!!!

KC fans and media wouldn't know a good QB even if we got one. No wonder the chiefs never develop one you have WHB punks that are wet behind the ears and are always trying to cause controversy don't know what the hell their talking about. Then you have a bunch of sheep who don't know anything about football who never question the media that listen to their show and read the star.

It's the sports version of ditto heads.

JOhn
09-04-2000, 11:42 PM
I agree that the interception was caused by Grbac's arm getting hit, but you have to admit, that it was the turning point of the game. After that, well, it was just more of the same old thing.

Yes we fans are tired of the lame plays and predictable up the middle three and outs. OUr special teams got plenty of practice as we punted all day.<P>

Kurt Surber
09-04-2000, 11:45 PM
Same old thing?

You win some and you lose some. That's the same old thing. Crying like a baby with a kneejerk reaction towards someone who was not the problem is clearly----the same old thing by the fair weather fans that have become known as the chief fans.

Kurt Surber
09-04-2000, 11:47 PM
Don't forget the media.....

Adam Teicher and WHB have become masters at directing the sheep of kansascity and blaming the wrong people.<P>

ct
09-04-2000, 11:49 PM
Elvis could prove one thing to me, very easily. Show me some guts, and when the nitwit coaches send in another running play, audible into a pass. Let Gunther scream and rant, tell Gunther to kiss his *** in public. Tell Jimmy Raye he doesn't know s h i t. Probably dooms him in the NFL though, so I guess he has to play the game as told by two of the dumbest S O B coaches I have ever seen. Gunther and Jimmy Raye.

Kurt Surber
09-04-2000, 11:58 PM
Well KCred you answered your own question but you've got to figure that the organization has been loyal to him to this point and he's going to be loyal to him. I'm saying don't blame grbac. The receivers dropped to many balls, our own beloved Tony G. played like $hit. That's where the game was lost. Our D held a potent offense to 14 points.

JOhn
09-05-2000, 12:03 AM
Red,

I was NOT crying like a baby towards GRbac, I admitted that his interception was not his fault. I also think that it changed the momentum of the game.

The play calling is to blame, also many on the team played like it was preseason. Dropped balls and

Williams and Glock penalties have to go for as many years as they have been in the NFL, the penalties they created Sunday, are ridiculous!!!

Kurt Surber
09-05-2000, 12:59 AM
I didn't say you did pam. You points in your most recent post I agree with.

flowergirl
09-05-2000, 01:14 AM
Why the love affair with Elvis? You're willing to bash the WRs, the OC, anyone but your boy Elvis.

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This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
09-05-2000, 01:28 AM
I don't know DrRed, but I can say that Elvis is an average QB and he didn't cause any great travesties until the intercepted pass and the two overthrows at the end of the game.

The rest of the time he was OK. And he only does what JR tells him. That's what bites!

I agree, though, on these items: Elvis can't read defenses and he crumbles under pressure. He will not WIN games for us. He just won't lose them either, all by himself.

He's not Elway, Tarkenton, Montana, Dawson, or Marino. He's just Elvis. And he has reached his potential... This is it...

G_Man
09-05-2000, 08:47 AM
Clint - I have not read this thread, but the topic sounded pretty awful. I don't think any QB well ever develop in the Chiefs enviornment, a rookie would just get boo'd off the field like every other QB. Truly lame, and sad.

flowergirl
09-05-2000, 08:54 AM
Sad but true.

IMO the fans have no patience for a 30 year old "developing" QB. I don't think the booing is ALL directed at Grbac personally, but the QB position in general. The fans deserve better than this and they know it. After watching a team like Indy come in here, play poorly and still win, it's hard to swallow Grbac, DA, and RBbC as our "big 3".

It was the kind of performance that makes me want to ask for my money back! http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/mad.gif

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This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!

AustinChief
09-05-2000, 08:56 AM
Jesus Christ, what a freaking whine-fest. Make a few critical statements about Grbac and get creamed by the "faithful".

**** YOU!!!

Adam Teicher (who you so conveniently lump into the WHB category when he says something AGAINST the team) said it best.

YES, his arm was hit. YES he threw the ball across the ****ing middle, and even if Bennett hadn't of hit his arm, he was going to throw the ball down the middle anyway, which is a SEVERE MENTAL MISTAKE!

Grbac did play very well until the game was on the line, and he does it every damn time.

And just so you know, I'm laying sole blame on Elvis. DA and Gonzo should be ashamed of themselves. The special teams play was, to quote David Byrne, "same as it ever was", and JIMMY RAYE IS A ****ING *** -HOLE!!!

Is that better?

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ChiefsPlanet Administrator
[i]baked...not fried</I>

Yosef_Malkovitch
09-05-2000, 08:57 AM
Morphius,

What is surprising to me is that I saw more improvement from Grbac Sunday than just about anyone else.

He spread the ball well and he was looking off receivers (he even managed a pump fake)!

His accuracy was a little off, but let's face it, it's not like he practiced all off season throwing the ball to THESE WRs. He has a history of being fairly accurate so I'm not too concerned here.

Most importantly, he ran a good two minute drill (only to have the perfect TD pass dropped).

I truely believe that some people would prefer to be negative because it is easier for them to handle the emotions.

Luz
i believe it, but i don't understand it...

AustinChief
09-05-2000, 08:59 AM
Whew, now that I've got that off my chest, I can say what I really wanted to say... http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

What was disappointing was to see us actually in the game halfway through the 3rd quarter and fold.

When I said I was laying sole blame on Elvis, obviously I was being sarcastic. I am most disappointed in the fact that this was the same team I watched lose for the last 3 years. The first 2 series of the game just about made me go nuts.

That being said, the boos are absolutely inexcusable. I was clearly upset, but I would never boo my Chiefs, not Elvis, not even Jimmy Raye.

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Parker
ChiefsPlanet Administrator
[i]baked...not fried</I>

AustinChief
09-05-2000, 09:02 AM
Luz,

I saw what you saw. Elvis did check off a couple of times and hit the second (and third) receiver. But he also tried to force throws to Gonzo in double-coverage.

He played well the entire game, until the game was on the line. I just don't think that at 30 years old, his mental game is going to drastically improve. He makes bad decisions in crunch time.

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ChiefsPlanet Administrator
[i]baked...not fried</I>

flowergirl
09-05-2000, 09:06 AM
If booing was so detrimental to a team's performance, then the Rams would never have made it to where they are today.

We are theChiefs' customers. If they provide an unsatifactory product, they had better either install the biggest freaking suggestion box on the planet at Arrowhead, or accept the booing.

Hell, I complain when the dummy at McDonald's forgets to put a straw in my bag, but they don't seem to react to booing into the drive-thru speaker at all!!

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This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!

[This message has been edited by Clint in Wichita (edited 09-05-2000).]

Yosef_Malkovitch
09-05-2000, 09:09 AM
htismaqe,

Chill.

I wanted the Chiefs to win; I was afraid we would get blown out.

What I saw was a LOT of positive things to build on.

I am not happy with our coaching. I don't like criticizing our team, and I always believe it is intelligent to give the benefit of the doubt, but the coaching needs to improve NOW.

Having said that, there were many things to feel good about and Grbac was one of them. I don't for a minute buy the "he always does that at a critical moment" trash. All QBs have errors, lapses in judgement, and interceptions (all QBs that try to make things happen). It is how they respond to them that counts. Elvis responded by driving us down the field (more than once) only to have drives stalled by dropped passes. Even with only a few minutes left, he didn't give up but rather drove us down the field and put the ball in the hands of our WR in the endzone. That my friend would have given us an opportunity to win.

I don't mind if you have a different opinion, but don't scream at others if they take exception to you relegating our starting QB to the reject pile after the first game of a long season in which he did a pretty decent job.

Luz
chill...<BR>

G_Man
09-05-2000, 09:09 AM
HT - Odd as this seems for some to see, I will go ahead and say it. When you have playmakers like Morris and TG, then everyonce and a while you throw the ball into double coverage and let them make the play, because that is what playmakers do. This is what you have to do with Moss, Carter, Harrison... But to not try to get a ball to your playmakers makes less sense then trying to force it in. Though I think it was not a very good pass, at least the one your talking about.

Morphius
Waiting to hear the sirens of the Wahhhhmbulance.

badger
09-05-2000, 09:14 AM
What was really disappointing is that we just gave away the first quarter on offense. Playing a team we have seen that can score at any time. Our play calling is pathetic! We are supposedly a play action team which means we suck in the linebackers to open up the middle. Problem is we don't throw over the middle more than 2 times per game. When we do it is a stop pattern that gives our receivers no yards after the catch.

Our biggest suprise plays are not catching a team off guard with the pass because we run on almost every down (till down by more than two TDs) our biggest suprise play is to run the ball on 3rd and 10. Makes me sick.

I am with another poster, maybe Grbac should start calling audibles on the line 50% of the time like Manning does. If he can't make the O go then, maybe he should be gone. Till then will blame our offensive ineptitude on GUN and JIMMY RAYE.

The KC Star stated you can't win Daytona with a chevelle, well Jeff Gordon couldn't win with his race car, if he had a guy that built his engine because he stayed at Holiday Inn last night.

The chiefs coaches have probably earned lots of brand name merchandise. Jimmy Raye probably already has a TV up in his room!

G_Man
09-05-2000, 09:16 AM
Clint - I honestly saw nothing wrong in booing the play calling in the beginning of the game (that was the only time I really remember hearing it from home). As for booing a player before he gets on the field, well those people should sit on their hands when he makes a great play, or a good play. Odd how loud they all got when Grbac threw for a TD after booing him off the bat.

AustinChief
09-05-2000, 09:22 AM
Luz,

I don't disagree with you on alot of it. I saw some very big positives. Sylvester Morris is going to be awesome. The defense didn't look bad either.

It's the coaching that really gets me. Gun ADMITTED in the post-game on the radio that the defense was lined up wrong, not once, but several times. The offense didn't do too bad, considering the freaking playcalling.

Elvis wasn't as bad as I made him out to be, I'll admit that. But what is it going to take to get him out of that mode he sometimes gets in? The look on his face after the INT indicated to me that he knew he had made a dumb mistake. He apologized for it, so he obviously felt it was partially his fault. He did bounce back and march us down the field and to him goes the credit, because our recievers were pathetic on that drive.

As far as your comments about screaming about criticism, I wasn't necessarily talking to you. You met my comments with thoughtful arguments to the contrary. However, there were several others that resorted to calling me, Clint, and others names. Those people were the ones I was responding to in the "rant" post.

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Parker
ChiefsPlanet Administrator
[i]baked...not fried</I>

flowergirl
09-05-2000, 09:24 AM
Gunther wants to wage trench warfare in the era of the laser-guided bomb. It is Carl and Gun's basic offensive philosophy that is more detrimental to this team that any other single factor. Their conservative, outdated philosphy is the reason why we are forced to watch players like Grbac, Bennett, and DA, and why we have a guy like Raye in the booth.

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G_Man
09-05-2000, 09:26 AM
Red Till Dead - I agree, well said. One of my biggest complaints has been, where are the crossing route's? The post, corner and go routes are the only one's where the player catches on the run. We might call a slant play twice a year, but that really doesn't count. God I HATE stop routes.<BR>

flowergirl
09-05-2000, 09:27 AM
HT,

The people that were calling us names just can't face the truth:

No matter how sexually attracted they may be to Grbac, he just isn't a franchise quarterback! http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/tongue.gif

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DoubleWannaB
09-05-2000, 09:33 AM
I am a Grbacker but even I admit that my faith is waivering...but I still don't understand the lack of support...we have no better QB than Grbac at the moment...Moon is not the answer for even this year...Collins?...maybe next year, I don't know...so I'll say it again and again...support the players on the field...until something better comes along anyway....sick of the boobirds....

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joe
"Sex on television can't hurt you... unless you fall off."

Yosef_Malkovitch
09-05-2000, 09:38 AM
Morphius, Clint, Htsmage,

I think we are all in basic agreement here (and I hope I haven't stepped on any toes).

I want to know whether in training camp, we practised crossing patterns and other routs except for stops? I want to know who to be disapointed in!

If those routes are not in our playbook and/or we're not practising them in the offseason then it's is entirely Gun's fault.

If we have them in our arsenal and we're just not calling them then it is mostly Raye's fault with blame for Gun if he doesn't step in and correct it.

I hope it's a matter of just not using them because if not, our entire coaching staff will need to be replaced (and that won't happen until next year).

The answer to this one question will tell me more about the future of this team than any single other bit of information!

Luz
praying for the right answer...<P>

AustinChief
09-05-2000, 09:40 AM
Luz,

My toes are fine. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Wow, after reading the thread Could someone verify this? I think I know what our problem is...

The crossing routes probably aren't part of JR's remedial offense.

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Parker
ChiefsPlanet Administrator
[i]baked...not fried</I>

flowergirl
09-05-2000, 09:45 AM
When Gunther was saying that he would try to get Shaw a head coaching job, I wonder if it ever crossed his mind that Shaw's first HC job might be at his expense?

Coach Shaw. I like the sound of that!

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flowergirl
09-05-2000, 09:48 AM
No matter how bad Raye is, Gun is still responsible for the offense. He has the power to change the offense, personnel, or coordinators. Maybe he just doesn't have the know-how.

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AustinChief
09-05-2000, 10:40 AM
Clint,

Gun is starting to remind me of my grandfather. Even if he DID have the know-how, he'd never admit it, because, damn-it, smashmouth wins football games.

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Parker
ChiefsPlanet Administrator
[i]baked...not fried</I>

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
09-05-2000, 11:07 AM
The coaching is the issue... and if Gun isn't up to the job we're looking at a long, difficult season to endure...

This one ain't Grbac's fault...

DoubleWannaB
09-05-2000, 11:10 AM
Face it, Gun is a defensive coach who got a head coaching job...I'm not sure if he knows yet what an offensive stategy is...and having Jimmy Raye to help him is not the best thing...Gun is going to have to learn what offense is before he can build one...hoping that he figures it out soon...

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joe
"Sex on television can't hurt you... unless you fall off."

scooter
09-05-2000, 12:09 PM
Someone else may have said this, I did not read all the replies... But, Elvis did a lot better job than you think. 9-10 dropped passes that were catchable. 3-4 were Gonzo's. Give Elvis a break. His stats were better than half leagues QB's. This guy will probably move on after this year and he will torch the *** off of the corners we have right now when the Chiefs have to play against him. One mans trash is anothers treasure. SUPPORT GRBAC. (Fire Cunningham)

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Would rather be golfing

b-squared
09-05-2000, 02:13 PM
Most of you probably already know from my previous posts, I am not much of a Grbac fan. I won't throw blame on only him for the loss. There were plenty of mistakes at every position. True, there were many dropped balls, but how many bad passes were thrown? (not saying that the dropped balls were bad passes, most of them were right on)

Look at DA's touchdown. It almost looked like the D-back caught the pass and DA took it out of his hands. No one said anything bad about him for that, but now everyone blames him for the dropped pass in the endzone. Yes, he should have caught it! He didn't. That is no justification for the following passes by Grbac.

As for the defense. They are luck they only held them to 2 TD's. Where were the D-Backs all day?

Overall. Not a bad start after a questionable pre-season. I am just wondering how many chances Grbac will have to prove himself before his fans start to realize that "maybe he is only a good 'backup' quarterback"