PDA

View Full Version : What's with Chester?


WarPaint
08-31-2000, 10:59 AM
I read that Chester has missed practice this week. He is only the probable starter? I thought he only had the wind knocked out of him against Tampa. Is this another case of the Chiefs downplaying a more serious injury ala Dan Williams and his 4 week bronchitis last year? I don't think Chester is all that great, but he is our best DT, we need him to bring the heat on Manning.

Raiderhader
08-31-2000, 11:01 AM
They are saying 'bruised ribs', and that he'll probably be ready, but if you remember in 1998, they downplayed his back and he was out the majority of the season.

We need Chester in there earning his multi millions.

BIG_DADDY
08-31-2000, 12:11 PM
"I don't think Chester is all that great, ..."

He requires a double team every single play and still gets in the backfield sometimes. If he's not up to snuff, we're gonna have a hard time of it.

------------------
... Remember when you're feeling very small and insecure how amazingly unlikely is your birth, and pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space, 'coz there's bugger all down here on earth.

WarPaint
08-31-2000, 12:21 PM
At 4 mil a year Chester should get more than 1 sack. Sapp gets double and triple teamed and gets the job done.

Anyone really think Chester is worth the 4 mil?

Tribal Warfare
08-31-2000, 12:33 PM
Is browning starting for dan williams still? i did not get to watch the last preseason game but heard some of it on the radio and i did not hear browning's name called on any defensive plays. did he have a good game?

Cannibal
08-31-2000, 12:36 PM
Gun said that Chet said if the game were today, he would be ready to go. Shouldn't be that big of a thing. They're just being careful...

WarPaint
08-31-2000, 12:51 PM
He is listed as "questionable", not "probable". Whenever Chiefs are questionable they usually don't play. More useless smoke and mirrors by Gun?

AustinChief
08-31-2000, 01:05 PM
Chiefnj:

Yeah, I think Chester is worth it. And this "expert" would agree.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>Defense
Defensive linemen: Defensive tackle Chester McGlockton, despite his tendency to jump offside, should have been in the Pro Bowl last year. His play wasn't reflected in numbers -- he had only 1½ sacks and 81 total tackles -- but he consistently occupied two blockers and created opportunities for teammates.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

taken from ESPN's KC preview.

------------------
Parker
ChiefsPlanet Administrator
[i]baked...not fried</I>

redbrian
08-31-2000, 01:41 PM
Sapp doesn't simply "occupy" 1 or 2 offensive linemen to give others a chance at a sack. He GETS the sacks, despite being the premier DT in the league. No DL in football gets more attention, but he still cannot be stopped. Glock isn't even in the same ballpark.

Ever hear of painkillers, Chester?

------------------
This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!

AustinChief
08-31-2000, 02:25 PM
Clint:

Of the TB games I've watched, they double team Sapp for about 2 plays, until the QB gets crushed by the other player that's unaccounted for. Sapp gets sacks because they can't double team him every play. Now that Chester has a supporting cast to do the same, he'll look alot better.

It seems funny that you and the other Chester-bashers around here know more about football than the people that get paid to analyze it. Get ready to eat crow, friend.

------------------
Parker
ChiefsPlanet Administrator
[i]baked...not fried</I>

Cannibal
08-31-2000, 02:28 PM
I don't understand the Chester bashing either. The guy said he would play. This is just like people ripping him for having the ingrown toenail in training camp, ripping him assuming he would skip practice, even though he did not.

htismaqe
08-31-2000, 02:37 PM
We all need to understand that in the main, the Chester bashers are also the Peterson bashers.

Chester being not worth his money is something they can use against Carl.

This is a position justified not reasoned.

Luz
btw, how much does sapp make?...

Cannibal
08-31-2000, 02:40 PM
Chester is worth every penny. Now Dan Williams, that's the guy we should be looking at as a waste of cap space. Carl had the right idea in '98. Too bad he gave in...

redbrian
08-31-2000, 02:41 PM
As soon as Chester logs 15 sacks in a season (I don't think he has 15 in the last 4 seasons combined), then we can reasonably compare him to Sapp. No matter who crushes the QB, the offense isn't going to focus on any Tampa DL but Sapp. The same can be said for Bryant Young, Jevon Kearse, etc.

BTW, I believe Sapp made about $5 million last year. Not bad, considering Sapp is worth much more than the $1 million difference between he and Glock, IMO.

------------------
This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!

redbrian
08-31-2000, 02:48 PM
IMO, and according to official stats (I wanted to put "official" in italics, but apparently that's beyond my realm of understanding), Williams actually outplayed Glock, but he didn't play enough downs to make his season totals very impressive. I definitely feel that he should be cut or traded for a 7th rounder...whatever it takes to get him off the roster if the cap allows.

I wish we had Keith Traylor and Tom Barndt at DT, along with an extra $7-8 million cap dollars per season in the bank.

Oh well, like my dad told me when I was a kid:

"Why don't you want in one hand and sh!t in the other, and see which one fills up first? http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/cool.gif

------------------
This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!

Mark M [BornChiefs]
08-31-2000, 02:51 PM
In a way, isn't that comparing apples to oranges?(DL vz DE)..examples like Kerse when talking about Glock? Interior linemen are dealing with guard/center blocking while the DEs are mostly on tackle, and maybe a TE..

Shouldn't you count more on DE for sacs? I guess I've always assumed that an interior lineman is supposed to 1. stop the run 2. collapse the pocket, forcing QB into DE?<P>

Cannibal
08-31-2000, 02:54 PM
Now Sapp based on last year was on a totally different planet than most linemen, but when exactly did he have 15 sacks?

Sacks by defensive tackles IMO are predicated on the quality of your outside pass rush. If you can contain the QB in the pocket, then the middle has more time and opportunity to sack the QB, esp. if they're trying to step up in the pocket. Otherwise the middle will give the initial push causing the QB to roll away from the pressure, and if you have a capable outside pass rush, they get to him, if you don't, he's just bought himself more time to get rid of the ball.

Can Chester play better? Of course. I think if Browning, Clemons, Hicks and/or Williams bring anything to the table this year, and if Chester is as dedicated as Gun says he is, we'll see much better numbers in terms of sacks this year.

AustinChief
08-31-2000, 03:01 PM
According to most football experts and coaches, the DT is 1) a run-stopper and 2) supposed to force the QB out of the pocket to be sacked by a DE or a LB.

We had the 11th ranked D against the run last year, despite VERY poor tackling from our LB and DBs, so can we assume he did #1?

And as far as #2 goes, who did we have to pick up the sack when Chester collapsed the pocket? Nobody... (and don't say he didn't collapse the pocket...I watched every game and so did alot of analysts who agree with me.)

So it comes again down to this...there is a very vocal minority that believes Chester sucks. But the preponderance of evidence indicates the latter, and so does the general concensus amongst those who get PAID to analyze football.

------------------
Parker
ChiefsPlanet Administrator
[i]baked...not fried</I>

Fort Chief
08-31-2000, 03:15 PM
Chester McGlockton is one of the most overrated players in the entire NFL, he is VASTLY overpaid and his stats have steadily declined over the past 4 years in row.

1996: Solo Tackles 58 – Sacks 8
1997: Solo Tackles 55 – Sacks 4
1998: Solo Tackles 24 – Sacks 1
1999: Solo Tackles 35 – Sacks 1

He is not the player some Chiefs fans make him out to be.

His “QB pressure” numbers really don’t mean squat either. That is a totally subjective stat that can differ GREATLY from one person’s opinion to another. If he get’s so much “pressure” on the QB, he NEEDS TO FINISH THE JOB AND GET THE SACK! In 98 and 99 he put rookie free-agent numbers! I literally went through and found like 30 or 40 defensive tackles that put up better tackle and sack numbers than Glock last year. It’s time we stop trying to act like Glock is a dominant player when nothing could be farther from the truth.

Have I mentioned that he lead he lead the league in penalties on 3rd and short that prolong opponents drives?

We could do much better for 4 mil. per season.<BR>

Dr. Red
08-31-2000, 03:27 PM
I don't have an opinion one way or the other with Glock, but the one thing I have noticed is that he doesn't get the penetration he used to.

When he was a dominant force playing for the Raiduhs, he would totally man-handle his opponent and get into the backfield. Now, I see a lot more struggle at the line of scrimmage, and less havoc created for the offense.

AustinChief
08-31-2000, 03:29 PM
Of course Cannibal, you're right. Why is it that you aren't a sports writer or analyst?

Again, 2 guys are disagreeing with alot of people that make a profession out of analyzing football. I guess I'll believe you guys, you seem to be more qualified.

------------------
Parker
ChiefsPlanet Administrator
[i]baked...not fried</I>

WarPaint
08-31-2000, 03:37 PM
htismaqe,

Do you believe everything you read?

How do 35 solo tackles and 1 sack make Chester a Pro Bowl caliber player?

He is overrated and is living off of his past reputation.<P>

alanm
08-31-2000, 03:43 PM
I don't think you can properly evaluate McGlockton until we have a decent DE on the team. It is foolish to expect McGlockton to do it all by himself. He certainly got no help from the DE or DT positions last season. He was pretty much a one-man band. On the other hand, his detractors are correct in saying that his numbers are not impressive and that he draws a disturbing number of penalties.

Let's see how he does with Clemons and Hicks at DE. If they bring the pressure from the outside and Browning helps out on the inside, we should see Chester's numbers increase significantly. If a better supporting cast shows up and his numbers still do not impress, I will be ready to concede that he is overrated and overpaid. It is premature to make that claim at this point, IMO.

xoxo~
gaz
waiting to see the 2000 McGlockton show.<BR>

Yosef_Malkovitch
08-31-2000, 03:48 PM
I find myself agreeing with the esteemed Gaz once again. Shocking, isn't it!

Fort Chief
08-31-2000, 04:03 PM
htismaqe,


Many fans like yourself always ***** , moan and complain anytime "a TV analyst who gets
paid to analyze football" picks the Chiefs to come in last in the division. You always say they don't know what their talking about etc. etc.

But now you find one that agrees w/ your opinion and you says he's correct because he gets paid to analyze the game.

Sorry dude, but that's just too inconsistant for me.

Mosbonian
08-31-2000, 04:04 PM
Chiefsnj,

I think you will find a much higher level of talent on the Tampa line so that comparison is not exactly valid. A better comparision might be Tez Kennedy in Seattle. There you see a very similar result, lots of pressures very few sacks. Just my opinion.

------------------
Jim Reynolds
Please no squiggles in my discussion zone!

redbrian
08-31-2000, 04:08 PM
The fact that Glock is completely dependent on the play of his fellow D-linemen is proof, IMO, that he is is overrated.

As far as official stats, Glock and DW were almost identical, according to CBSSportsline.com.

------------------
This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!

Mike
08-31-2000, 04:19 PM
Sapp's pay last year (base + bonus): $6,230,600

Mike
08-31-2000, 04:21 PM
McGlockton's (base + bonus): $3,250,000

[This message has been edited by G_Man (edited 08-31-2000).]

Fort Chief
08-31-2000, 04:38 PM
Sacks:

Sapp - 12.5
Glock – 1


Forced Fumbles:

Sapp – 4
Glock – 1


Fumble Recoveries:

Sapp – 2
Glock – 1<BR>

redbrian
08-31-2000, 04:44 PM
Glock made a total of exactly $4.09 million last year...the most of any DL in the AFC last year, and the more than any other Chief. I can't find a link, but I know I gave it to Titus about a month ago.

------------------
This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!

Mike
08-31-2000, 06:05 PM
Sapp is definitely a better player, I was not trying to argue that. I was just supplying the cap #s which were printed by USA Today.

Mike
08-31-2000, 06:11 PM
AFC: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/salaries/afc.htm

NFC: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/salaries/nfc.htm

WarPaint
08-31-2000, 06:22 PM
I realize it isn't fair to compare Chester to Sapp who is the best DT in the game, and who has a great supporting cast. But even when you compare him to other DT's in the league on teams with average defenses, he is still an average player. (No Miami's, Jax, Ravens, St. Louis, Buff, Titans used in the comparison because of their dominant D's).

Player Team Tackles Sacks FF FR

Young SF 36 11.5 0 0
Randle Minn 28 9.0 4 3
Glover NO 46 8.5 1 1
Wilknsn WA 22 7.0 0 1
Flanigan Chi 36 6.0 1 1
Parallela SD 45 5.5 3 0
Hamilton NYG 36 4.0 1 2
Stubbfld WA 31 4.0 1 0
Hand NO 41 4.0 0 0
Eliss Det 31 3.5 3 2
Wells Chi 51 1.0 1 1

McGlock KC 30 1.0 1 1


Chester's #'s just aren't that good.


Sorry for the format, when I typed it in it was neat and orderly. I'm not computer savvy enough to fix it. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif
[This message has been edited by Chiefnj (edited 08-31-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Chiefnj (edited 08-31-2000).]

Mike
08-31-2000, 06:25 PM
Speaking of Chester:

"(DT) Chester McGlockton practiced and practiced well. (DT) Dan Williams didn't practice; he's got a little bit of a tonsil infection."

Tonsil infection? Man, this guy has some kind of health problem all year round.

Mike
08-31-2000, 06:27 PM
Chiefnj - I agree his #s aren't good, but that's not entirely a reflection of his play. I'm sure you wouldn't take all those DTs you listed with better stats over McGlockton. He has no other performers on the DL and coverage sacks are hard to get when coverage is poor. I know these are excuses, but I don't think he's as bad as his #s indicate.

b-squared
08-31-2000, 11:51 PM
I think what Chester is good at is disrupting plays. He is almost like a nose tackle. His job is to stuff up the middle, penetrate into the backfield and disrupt the running or passing play. He is excellent at this task. His first step is breathtaking when he is motivated and he often arrives at the ball the same time the RB gets it. Getting him to do it consistently well now there's another story... http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/frown.gif

------------------
Still I dream of a cold frosty day probably too far away when the Chiefs are still playing football in mid January

Cannibal
08-31-2000, 11:56 PM
Also remember, a lot of teams were running away from Chester and at Derrick Thomas or whatever other smaller ends we had lined up there because it neutralized the outside pass rush and the mismatches with the tackles was usually in their favor. Look for them to do the same thing with Duane Clemons (and Donnie Edwards when he lines up outside) and prove that he can stop the run...

AustinChief
09-01-2000, 01:07 PM
Chiefnj,

Believe what I read? Not always...but I do believe what I see and I consitently saw Chester collapsing the pocket despite being double-teamed. Sorry if you have to see it different...

Cannibal,

Thanks for lumping me in as a statistic. Name one time I chastised a member of the media for picking "the Chiefs to come in last in the division". I've criticized alot of sportswriters (Dan Patrick comes to mind)for making uninformed picks in the past. The information I posted about Glock was written by someone who is highly regarded throughout the NFL as an expert on talent evaluation. A big difference. So again, I ask you to prove inconsticency on my part. You can't do it.

To all of those who base Chet's performance solely on measurable stats:
As a former assistant football coach, there are a great many things beyond stats that determine the worth of a player. You can berate me all you want, but I'm speaking from personal experience inside the game. If any of you have that, I'll be inclined to believe you, and less inclined that you just want something to ***** about.

Gaz:

You made the same statement I did. Lack of an overall defensive presence hurt Chet. Pressure from the ends and from Donnie outside will help him alot. His stats will be much better this year.

------------------
Parker
ChiefsPlanet Administrator
[i]baked...not fried</I>

AustinChief
09-01-2000, 01:19 PM
Chiefnj:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>Young SF 36 11.5 0 0
Randle Minn 28 9.0 4 3
Glover NO 46 8.5 1 1
Wilknsn WA 22 7.0 0 1
Flanigan Chi 36 6.0 1 1
Parallela SD 45 5.5 3 0
Hamilton NYG 36 4.0 1 2
Stubbfld WA 31 4.0 1 0
Hand NO 41 4.0 0 0
Eliss Det 31 3.5 3 2
Wells Chi 51 1.0 1 1

McGlock KC 30 1.0 1 1
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And here's the story you DIDN'T tell...

Young is better than Chet, I'll concede that...
Randle Minn 9 sacks had Duane Clemons 9.5 sacks
Glover is better than Chet, but had Willie Whitehead with 7 sacks
Wilkonson had Stubblefield
Flanigan had Clyde Simmons with 7.5 sacks
Parallela played for one of the best overall defenses in the league
Hamilton had Strahan, Jessie Armstead (9 sacks) and Cedric Jones (7.5 sacks)
Stubblefield had Wilkonson
Hand again played for one of the best overall D's in the league
Eliss? Give me a break! He had Robert Porcher (15 sacks) on the outside
Wells had more tackles, 1 sack...everybody ******* about the lack of sacks. Why add this one.

Our two best rushers last year? Looks to me like DT and Marvcus...linebackers. Now that we have a D-Line to speak of, let's see if he doesn't improve.



------------------
Parker
ChiefsPlanet Administrator
[i]baked...not fried</I>

Iron Chef
09-01-2000, 01:26 PM
If you want to put a value on Chester, watch opposing teams blocking schemes. He is double teamed virtually every play. Some plays when he splits the double team, he is also picked up by the back. Our problem last year is that with every other DL getting single blocking match ups we still didn't apply pressure with out a LB blitz.

Focus on the first few Indy plays Sunday, Chester will be double teamed every play. If Clemmons, Browning, or Hicks step up our line play, and force the QB up in the pocket, the sacks will come for Chester.

Masonic
09-01-2000, 05:39 PM
Hey guys, I guess we should just ignore the lack of tangible production(i.e. sacks and tackles) and focus on how many times Glock is double-teamed. I'm not a paid analyst, but I'm certain I have seen Sapp, Randle, Stubblefield, etc get double teamed quite often and still make plays. It seems if you were wreaking havok and collapsing the pocket you might run into a ball carrier or qb by accident every once in a while. Just my opinion which I guess is not worth much here, as I do not get paid to write it and I have never coached football.

alanm
09-03-2000, 09:57 AM
BubbaZ-

Welcome to the BB.

You should check out Post #39 for an answer to your point. McGlockton had zero help from the rest of the DL. We need to pay attention to what he does with some interior and exterior help this season.

xoxo~
gaz
not expecting Chester to do a solo act.