View Full Version : CNNSi: Your Choice for Week 4 Top Coach
09-26-2000, 11:51 AM
It even has Gunther as a choice, but he's running a distant second behind Al Groh.
09-26-2000, 11:52 AM
09-26-2000, 11:58 AM
I’d have a hard time voting for Gunther.
still not sure he even wants Gunther as HC after this season.<BR>
09-26-2000, 12:00 PM
Bob Dole is with you, Gaz. Bob Dole is not yet convinced that the coaching staff has done much to help other than stay out of the player's way. Even that, though, is a mighty large step down the right path.
09-26-2000, 01:27 PM
I am going to have to [respectfully, natch] disagree with you Gaz, BobDole. With a long view, resisting the knee-jerk temptation to scrutinze every moment, word, decision, play, etc., I think that Gun is on his way to an amazing coaching performance. Starting before the '99 season, job one was changing the mindset [thugs and showboaters to professionals]. Check. Next he needed to achieve a credible W/L record [9-7, only first year coach over .500]. Check. DT dies, we have to get over that. Well on our way, at least as regards on-field performance. Next we have to rid ourselves of players either on their way out or dragging the team down [Bam Morris-gone, Vanover-gone, Rison-gone]. Next we have to have a good draft [need I even begin to assess the promise in the 2000 draft, DESPITE the prognisticators?]. Check. Next we have to trade in solid replacements that will fill voids on the team [Bush, Clemmons, Blackshear, Saurbrun]. Good values all, Check.
09-26-2000, 01:27 PM
We were disappointed after the first 2 games, not because they were clearly outplayed by the class of the league [show of hands and be truthful, who was haunted by visions of two big blowouts to start the season, followed by a 5 win season?], but because the game was within their reach and they fell short. Our expectations rose exponentially in those two weeks and what would have satisfied us beforehand no longer did [I'll count rising expectations as a positive reflection on the coaches, a controversial attribution I'll grant you].
Now were coming off two exhilirating wins, each in their own way, and I have no reason to think that this team will do anything but continue to progress [except spectors of past falls to mediocrity born of the previous regime].
In the past few months, we went from an aging team to one of the youngest in the league. We went from the police blotter, to "Big Country" with the aw-shucks smile. We went from an arguable "choker" QB to an emerging rock of Gibraltar. We are starting some EXCITING rookies. The passing O is blossoming as not seen around her in a while. All this in one of the most poisonous media environments I've seen outside NY and Phillie.
Some of this has to reflect well on the coaching staff, even [dare I say, CP].
[This message has been edited by JC-Johnny (edited 09-26-2000).]
09-26-2000, 02:33 PM
Disagreement is what makes the BB an interesting place.
I like Gunther and I believe he is exactly what the ’99 Chiefs needed. A tough, old school bird to restore a sense of team and end the showboating thug mentality that had crept in during the waning days of Marty’s regime.
Since then, Gunther has made many mistakes, which I would forgive as the rookie blues. But he has not learned from them. Herewith a few examples:
· He refuses to take the preseason seriously. As a result, we were not ready to play Chicago last year and we were not ready to play Indianapolis this year. The stunning number of dropped balls by the starters says to me that we must use preseason for more than player evaluation. The starters need more preseason PT to sharpen their skills in real game situations.
· He was hopelessly out-coached by Holmgren in the first Seattle game. He refused to alter his non-plan for the game and that game was also lost. Those losses are directly attributable to Gunther.
· He continues to shuffle RBs in and out of the game, refusing to allow any runner to get into the flow of the game. The Committee is a bad idea and Gunther clings steadfastly to it.
too much bad stuff for one post.<BR>
09-26-2000, 02:34 PM
· He retained Stock as STC. Stock is clearly inept at his job, as evidenced by plummeting ST play across the board. You can blame Baker for shanked kickoffs, or Pope for short kicks or Sauerbrun for short hang time, but a complete collapse in what used to be a great ST squad points directly to the coach.
· He retained Schottenheimer at DC. Kurt’s blitz packages are as lame as we have ever seen and he even had the gall to use the hated Prevent Defense against NE and Tennessee. He was saved by a friendly goalpost against NE, but Schottenheimer lost the Titans game single-handedly with his gutless soft zone.
· He retained Raye. After proven failure every time he held the position, Gunther stubbornly kept Raye. The results are clear. We have had  good game on Offense this season and that was against a bad team.
Gunther is not a good coach. He might someday become a good coach, but until he rids us of the Stooges and dumps the “tough is more important than winning” nonsense, he is failing. If he does not fire the Stooges at season’s end, I will hope that Peterson fires Gunther.
in Gunther’s corner for at least one more season.<BR>
Al Groh should be dead last for pulling Vinny...That was a bone head move.
09-26-2000, 02:56 PM
Gaz- Aside from the pre-season thing, I don't much disagree with the shortcomings you point out. I'll even go you one further and say Jeff Fischer outcoached us, because the Titans always seem to manage to pull out this kind of game at home and I am at a loss for how save "Fischer-magic."
But I am exponentially more impressed with the progress in the areas I point out than I am dismayed by the negatives. What's more, the progress has made me hopeful for further progress.
I've been here, I was on the 'other' board. I know what the expectations were for this team before the season, even into the pre-season.
We need to respect the sharp upturn in expectations. Its like we went to a car dealership thinking we could only afford a Yugo, then we drive off the lot with a Corvette, then we bit - - complain because it has cloth seats.
09-26-2000, 03:08 PM
The Chiefs did not play good football Sunday. Our game plan was not clever and innovative. We continued to platoon RBs, we continued to run up the middle into the heart of the enemy Defense, our Defense gave up massive yardage and then played tough when Denver inexplicably tried to power the ball into the end zone after the short passing game had been kicking our butts and we continued to play conservative Offense until we had to move to win the game. I am thrilled that we did so, but aside from what appears to be a fluke performance against the Chargers, I have not seen any indication that our coaching staff is improving. I don’t know about you, but I still see a Yugo.
waiting for another demonstration of brains from the Chiefs brain trust.<BR>
09-26-2000, 03:24 PM
Gaz - Don't tell me you've been converted to the razzle-dazzle side.
Regardless of your overarching opinion of conservative play-calling, the Donkeys game had a series that was the perfect realization of a statement made by Raye a couple of weeks ago and universally derided. He said, in paraphrase, if we are backed up deep my job is play it safe, punt, and give let the defense do its job with decent field position.
In the 4th, we started at the 5-10, we ran U.G.B. 3 plays for [like] -2 yards and punted. Our next defensive series caused a Denver fumble at mid-field and led to the FG that put us w/in 5.
Now, I'm not advocating playing every series this way, but this did give me pause. Made me say "hey, maybe there is something to their philosophy other than anal extraction."
[This message has been edited by JC-Johnny (edited 09-26-2000).]
09-26-2000, 04:05 PM
Yes, we got a turnover. And that was great. But it is hardly a basis upon which to build an Offensive strategy, is it?
Look at the games we lost recently. I daresay most of the losses were due to a failure of nerve on the part of our coaching staff. The glaring exception was the loss to Oakland. Am I missing one?
Gunther/Raye played conservative O against Indianapolis, Schottenheimer <curses upon his cowardly head> played a conservative Defense when the game was on the line against Tennessee.
The San Diego is the first time in years that we have shown a taste for the jugular. And I liked it. I want more. I want to taste blood and guts and veins in my teeth.
If we are to attempt to dismiss an innovative game plan as razzle-dazzle, then yes, I want razzle-dazzle. I want our RBs to run somewhere other than the center of a stacked line. I want to see screen passes to our RBs. And yes, I want to see a pass play when we are backed up to our own end zone. I want us to attack on Offense the way we used to attack on Defense.
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