View Full Version : Grbac vs Gannon..Who still thinks we should have kept Gannon?

Duck Dog
10-09-2000, 12:31 PM
Just found some interisting stats comparing the 2 QB's over the past 3 games.

.......att-comp % yds TD Int rating
Grbac 57-93 61.3 741 9 3 105.4
Gannon 48-87 55.2 648 4 3 80.3

Also Grbac has 12TD's, leading the AFC, and topped in the NFL by only Garcia (15) and Warner (14)
The Chiefs are now 11-3 in games which Grbac throws two or more TDs and just 13-11 when he does not.

Few more stats comparing the 2 for whole year.

......att/comp % long Td's TO's rating
Grbac 86/151 57% 73 12 5 95.3
Gannon 83/144 57% 48 5 6 82.8

Now not to leave Gannons ground game out..

rushed 31 times/157yds, with 4 td's (9 total td's)

Now as for any QB out there who might realisticly be available, I can think of none I would take at this point. Besides which Grbac is only 30 and does have several good years available.
(only one i can think of being available, maybe, is Trent Green. But I think with his large salary it might be cost prohibitive.)

On those lines, IF Grbac continues to perfom at this level or better, I think we take the big hit on our cap next year and or make every effort to keep him here

Any thoughts?

[This message has been edited by JOhn (edited 10-09-2000).]

[This message has been edited by JOhn (edited 10-09-2000).]

[This message has been edited by JOhn (edited 10-09-2000).]

[This message has been edited by JOhn (edited 10-09-2000).]

10-09-2000, 12:32 PM

Duck Dog
10-09-2000, 12:34 PM
LOL, you know if I still posted on the other BB I would point that out, but since I don't, I won't http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/tongue.gif

10-09-2000, 12:35 PM
I have to admit I was against keeping Grbac over Gannon. I thought it was a mistake in '97 when Grbac started against the Donx in the playoffs.

Since then I have been wary, last year being the first year I thought Grbac played well enough to stay.

I am pleasantly surprised the way it seems to be turning out. Right now I wouldn't trade even up to get Gannon.

10-09-2000, 12:40 PM
It's still too early to tell. In '98 and '99, when I was calling for Grbac's head on a platter, all Grbackers thought he just needed more time to develop.

He had an above average year last year, and he's off to a good start this year, thanks to San Diego's ability to allow opposing offenses to pad their stats. Grbac has had exactly 3 good games this year. Let's not award him the league MVP just yet.

I will remain skeptical until Elvis does it over the course of an entire season, without blowing any critical games.

Duck Dog
10-09-2000, 12:41 PM
I agree, Of any QB out there who might realisticly be available, I can think of none I would take at this point. Besides which Grbac is only 30 and does have several good years available.

(only one i can think of being available, maybe, id Trent Green. But I think with his large salary it might be cost prohibitive.)

On those lines, IF Grbac continues to perfom at this level or better, I think we take the big hit on our cap next year and or make every effort to keep him here

Chief Joseph
10-09-2000, 12:41 PM
I've always thought Grbac was a better QB; he's a better pocket passer and has a better arm. And lately, he's been making better decisions under pressure. Some of Gannon's passes left a little to be desired. Having said that, I'm still a Gannon fan. He's just got a certain intangible quality about him. I guess his mobility is what gives him the 'X' factor. But that has its drawbacks too; he doesn't always make the best play under duress. The last int in the 49er game is a good illustration of this.

Duck Dog
10-09-2000, 12:43 PM
I think Last year was NOT a fluke, and he will continue to perform at this level. Also now that he has more than 1 weapon, I think he is showing what he is capable off.

10-09-2000, 12:50 PM
I admit to being one of the vocal fans who thought Gannon was better and I was P!$$ed when they let him go.

I thought he was a better, less fragile QB and gave us(CHiefs) a better chance of winning.

I don't believe this now....I want to be a lifelong learner...just like I was told to say during interviews.

10-09-2000, 12:50 PM
I believe if you look back at the numbers, Grbac has only had 1 questionable game, the Colts. In the Titan game, he played well enough to win the game, Stoyo missed a field that would have kept the game from going to OT.

I am excited to see the Chiefs have a QB and receiver that has to be actually planned against instead of just stopping the run.


10-09-2000, 01:00 PM
It was obvious that Gannon does not trust his arm well enough to try to make the big play and would rather trust his legs to do it for him. I think he ends up missing big plays and does not make it through all of his progressions before he takes off running. This would explain why the WR's and TE's are so upset, the line is blocking well, and they are getting open, that only leaves one man to blame, Gannon. Watching the last game he reminded me of the guy you would not pick for your team in a backyard game, looked like a ball hog.

Of course I don't blame him for not trusting his arm, I don't trust it either. He missed many wide open receivers yesterday. His imediate feeling is always to throw to the RB and if not open then run. It was just the kind of Offense that we complained about running for years, the good ol dink and dunk.

Duck Dog
10-09-2000, 01:09 PM
very well said Morph. But becarefull the Grbashers might take some sniper shots at you for that kinda thinking.


10-09-2000, 01:09 PM
I always preferred Gannon over Grbac. But I have to say that Grbac's performance of late has been exceptional. I hope he keeps it up!<BR>

10-09-2000, 01:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR>He missed many wide open receivers yesterday. His imediate feeling is always to throw to the RB and if not open then run.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't Tim Brown finish the game with 140+ yards and two touchdowns? Rison had 80+ yards and Jett had about 30+.

Looks like he did a lot more than "just throw to the RB" to me.

[This message has been edited by Cannibal (edited 10-09-2000).]

10-09-2000, 01:18 PM
Would really like to see the stats for Yards after the Catch. Most of the passes were short and Brown got most of his yardage after the catch.

Got the same impression, no long balls to the WR's. Simms made that comment many times during the game.

Gannon had almost as many rushes as their 'feature' back.

10-09-2000, 01:19 PM
I wanted us to keep Gannon. Make him our starter for a couple of years while we brought along our young, raw QBOTF.

The interesting question is, which young, raw QBOTF could have been ready to step into the starting role next season had we gone that way?

likes the What If stuff.<BR>

10-09-2000, 01:26 PM
Most the yards to Rison came in OT where he had something like 3 straight catches, on the final drive. Mostly he passes to Tim Brown and any RB, but if hi first read is not Tim then it is a quick look and pass to RB. I will now have to post the Gannon Play by Play yesterday.

10-09-2000, 01:27 PM

Just because we now have "the saviour" Grbac doesn't mean we should stop looking for a QBOTF at all IMO.

We should have been looking for one since Len Dawson retired and should still be looking for one.

10-09-2000, 01:28 PM
Part 1 of 4

1st drive (great field position after fumble)
- Nice pass to Tim Brown on sideline, stares him down pretty hard
- 3rd and Goal, pass to rison, rison has to dive out the front of endzone and even if could have made the catch would have had to kick the FG.
2nd Drive
- Can't find open receiver and has to run for first down.
- Force pass to uncovered WIDE OPEN reciever Kaufman, too low and dropped ball.
- Doesn't see blitz, WR open to his left and guess what, dump to RB short of first down and punt.
3rd Drive (Poor punt start at SF ~45)
- Nice Pass to none other then Tim Brown.
- Gannon, again can't find anyone and runs.
- Hand off in upper shoulder of RB, never controlled,hit almost immediatly and fumbled, turnover. Fumble Charge to Rich.
4th Drive (own 47 yard line)
- Pass to RB again, 4 yards.
- Pass to guy on his knees on sideline, appeared to be dropped
- Pass behind Rison on crossing route with no defender in front of him, tough catch but could have been caught. Punt
5th Drive (blocked punt, SF 25)
- 3rd and 3 overthrows WIDE OPEN TE Dudly, would have been a first down. FG again.

[This message has been edited by morphius (edited 10-09-2000).]

10-09-2000, 01:30 PM
Gannon mostly throws short passes? Gee, imagine that in a west coast offense.

10-09-2000, 01:30 PM
When Tim Brown is your only decent receiver, most QB's would look to Brown 80% of the time.

10-09-2000, 01:31 PM
Part 2 of 4
6th Drive (own 35)
- Gannon takes off running can't find anyone open...
- WhooHOo! Pass to RB for short gain.
- Runs around for half and hour and can't find anyone anyhwere and nowhere to run that he is willing to try to throw the ball for, throws it into the ground short of reciever, luckly it took so long the defense commited a penalty.
- Pass over Brown head on quick pass, announcer says he doesn't have control of the ball and is too dancy.
- Almost picked off, luckily holding on D.
- Throws ball to James Jett feet on crossing route, anouncer says Gannon not in any rythm and low on confidence.
- Over the head of Brown again, completely out of reach. Punt.
7th Drive - Kneel down, half time.
8th Drive (touchback)
- Nice Pass to Tim Brown in the middle an 15 yards tacked on for late push to back of Gannon.
- Dropped ball on short pass
- Almost throws ball out of bounce, good catch by Rison to stay in bounce
- Dunk covered, Gannon run's instead of look for WR.
- Pass to Kaufman out of the backfield, seeing a pattern yet? Tim Brown, RB's and nobody else.
- Stares at RB only, doesn't even look for anyone else. Runs with ball and OL gets called for holding.
- Nice pass to Tim Brown again...
- Sad excuse for a side arm behind James Jett, uncatchable, behind him.
- Anouncer talks about Turmoil on the bench, says the players are unhappy, say WR getting open and the protection is OK, just Gannon can't get the ball there.
- Runs for first.
- Runs in for 2 pt converstion.

10-09-2000, 01:32 PM


wondering who replaces White as the QBOTF.

10-09-2000, 01:33 PM
Part 3 of 4

9th Drive (Fumble recover own 20)
- Bootleg pass to Jett, nice pass.
- Gannon's foot probably stepped on and falls backwards.
- Screen pass to RB who is being held onto by the DL.
- Long pass to Rison.
- Actually hits Wide open WR Tim Brown in the middle of the field.
10th Drive (SF 49)
- Another horribly thrown side arm pass, WR dives and still not able to catch it.
- Gannon again can't find anyone and has to run for the first down.
- Flips the ball to RB again.
- Another pass to RB, RB drops the ball badly.
- Gannon Runs for TD on bootleg.
11th Drive (Touchback)
- Held onto by DL and still got rid of the ball without drawing a flag.
- Throws to RB who is still in backfield with DL all over him, not caught.
- STUPID STUPID STUPID!!! Being sacked throws football away and throws a pick. SF ball on 13 yard line. SF scores TD to tie game off of that mistake.
12th Drive (own 35)
- Almost hit Rison on Streak, Rison only got one hand on it and was pretty well covered. Damn close to a great pass.
- Avoids rush and still gets sacked.
- Pass to TE Dudly, well defended and incomplete. Jano misses 41 yard FG.

Duck Dog
10-09-2000, 01:33 PM
there guys I updated the topic for ya.

Notice who has the longest pass?

But I do agree we will need a QBOTF, but not for 2-3 years i think.

10-09-2000, 01:34 PM
Part 4 of 4

13th Drive (own 30 1:29 left)
- 16 yard pass to Rison over the middle.
- Rison again in the middle, gotta love that prevent D.
- Pass to Rison, short pass, dropped and probably a good thing, Rison clocked after miss.
- Pass well defended (close call), holding against Raiders.
- Gannon avoids sack by throwing ball into ground by RB.
- Attempted screen, DL saw it and blocked the pass. PUNT.
14th Drive (now in OT, own 18)
- quick drop and throw to Brown, 8 yard gain. Good pass
- Overthrew pass to well covered Jett, not even close and probably a good thing.
- Nice medium length pass to Brown across the middle, big gain.
- JANO SUCKS!!! Thanks GOD we didn't waste our first round on him.
15 Drive (own 20 something)
- Quick slant, low pass Andre has to dive to catch it.
- Another Bootleg, I saw that coming from another mile away. First down.
- Tim Brown wide open on Blitz, has to slow down and makes catch for a TD.

10-09-2000, 01:43 PM
Clint - Throwing short in west coast, sure. But you have to know that the WR would not be complaining about it if they were not supposed to be part of the scheme and the RB is almost always the outlet pass, not the primary receiver. He missed a lot of wide open people yesterday, badly.

10-09-2000, 01:46 PM
He's 5-1

Duck Dog
10-09-2000, 01:47 PM
You know what is funny? This is the same conversation that was going on ahile back...98 and first of 99, but the names were switched.

10-09-2000, 01:55 PM
LOL...Defending the saviour to this day. How about 4-1, let's not give your favorite player a win for Sunday just yet.

10-09-2000, 02:24 PM
JOhn - I'm just waiting for them to switch to the option, I mean the guy is going to run with the ball anyway.

Clint - Nothing like objective, which you are not. You sound like people are telling you that he threw the ball badly and all you can say is he won the game, that sounds like everyone you complain about, very hypocritical.

10-09-2000, 02:25 PM
Actually, Gannon had an uncommonly open game yesterday (well, second half anyway). Much of Brown's 170+ yards were thru the air. The presence of Rison seems to open it up a bit for Brown. Gannon is just getting adjusted to using those two as a pair, and the threesome looks to get better as the season progresses.

The Raider's fortune rests on the play of Gannon, but he has been inconsistant this year. The difference from one quarter to the next has been dramatic. The O seems to be there for him, but sometimes he misses badly. When he's on, we put up big numbers. Of course, I predict that he will be "on" at Arrowhead.....

10-09-2000, 02:26 PM
I don't recall saying that Gannon is better than Grbac, so there's no reason to get so worked up...is there?

10-09-2000, 02:26 PM
Grbac is actually a very decent quarterback. I also think Gannon is playing great football.

But if the season stopped today, I think that the AFC pro bowl quarterbacks would be Griese (starting) and Grbac (backup). In my mind, both have played better than Payton

scott in spfd
10-09-2000, 02:27 PM
I can't seem to make up my mind. Is Gannon gay too?

10-09-2000, 02:31 PM
naw, Clint, just your ardent defense of any Gannon criticism showed your true colors.

Duck Dog
10-09-2000, 02:33 PM
Ref #33

Actually Grbac would start the PB, as Griese will need surgery, so Payton would be the back-up

10-09-2000, 02:35 PM
UD - He seems very good at hitting Brown, and Tim is worthy of his Probowl's, I have no arguements about him. I think that Tim is normally the primary receiver and he is able to make that one, I'm not sure if he is doing his progressions very good at all, he sure wasn't in the last game. It normally looked like WR 1, skip other WR, RB 2, run with ball. Luckily you do have some RB's that are pretty good and Tim Brown decided not to run to Dallas.

10-09-2000, 02:50 PM

10-09-2000, 03:00 PM

OK, Griese would be getting surgery, but right now, he is playing better than any qb in the AFC... even with a torn shoulder.

10-09-2000, 03:09 PM
Hey Morph....Even YOU would be good at hitting Tim brown. The guy has the knack for getting open, and he catches the ball (and runs with it). We would have lost that game without Brown. When Gannon can't hit him, he throws to the others rather wildly at times. If they all had Brown's hands, they'd catch a lot more of them. Seems like Gannon throws to Brown with confidence, but gets flustered sometimes when he has to throw to others.

The wind may have had something to do with the performance yesterday. Dig these stats for Gannon and Garcia combined....When throwing towards the south end zone, they were 36 of 51 for 519 yards. When they were going the other way, they were 13 of 33 for 127 yards. Maybe all the errant passes weren't Gannon's fault. But he sure didn't even see some wide open non-Brown Raiders.

10-09-2000, 03:32 PM
UD - The wind could have effected it, I still can't believe he blew that pass to the RB lined up as a WR who had nobody covering, all he had to do was get the ball there and make one safety miss about 20 yards down field and a TD. That was almost a pathetic as the INT to tie the game.

10-09-2000, 04:04 PM
Which QB has been to the pro-bowl?
Which QB has the better record?
Which QB has the ability to make plays?


10-09-2000, 04:13 PM
Gannon http://sports.nfl.com/2000/playerhighlights?id=821

Grbac http://sports.nfl.com/2000/playerhighlights?id=908

Yeah, I'll go with Elvis for $200 Bob, thanks.

Oh, yeah, did I forget to mention "Gannon who?", and... it's kinda hard to get a decent completion rate and become a pro-bowl QB when your offense is based on the run, isn't it PackFan???

[This message has been edited by bishop_74 (edited 10-09-2000).]

10-09-2000, 04:17 PM
BroncoFan, sorry but I don't think that a QB on a .500 team will be starting the pro bowl

10-09-2000, 04:18 PM
BroncoFan, sorry but I don't think that a QB on a .500 team will be starting the pro bowl

10-09-2000, 04:21 PM
Damn, look at this little bastards stats, and he even missed a game.

Griese http://sports.nfl.com/2000/playerhighlights?id=929

10-09-2000, 05:40 PM
Gannon has wheels that's it with that said the raiders would have lost to the 9ers if not for gannon.

DO not let Gannon RUN THE BALL

Oh yeah I like GRBAC

Duck Dog
10-09-2000, 06:25 PM
So should we try and keep him, if he continues to perform at this level? And if we do keep him, what about the cap hit?

10-09-2000, 06:45 PM
Gannon should have been kept.........for the running game. He had most yards rushing in the 9ers game.

10-09-2000, 06:57 PM
In the past Gannon really worked hard for a Chiefs win at Arrowhead..let's hope he puts all his might into it this week.

Obviously Grbac is the better long term choice.

Man...if the 2 games I want to see are being shown in my town this weekend...I'm gonna crap my pants. And, if the Chiefs AND Wildcats (K-State) win...i'm gonna have a week long smile on my face...and crap in my pants.

A Chiefs/Royals/Jayhawks Fan Living Where Cowboys/Rangers/Longhorns Fans Live...Help!

10-09-2000, 08:58 PM
Looking at your signature red pants I have to ask why you will be happy with a Wildcats win. Not trying to start anything, just curious. Surely you don't root for KU and Gay-State.

10-09-2000, 09:49 PM
I understand your concern. Growing up in Oklahoma, I knew that Sooners fans don't route for Cowboys(OSU), and now living in Texas, Longhorn fans don't route for A&M.
The only explination I can give you is...I'm a disenfranchised Kansan...I was born in Topeka. Then my family moved away 6 years later. It wasn't until I was 15 or so that I developed an appreciation for team sports. I guess it was the non-conformist along with the homesick Kansan in me that chose not to be a Sooner or a Dallas Cowboy Fan. I chose to be loyal to teams from my home state.
The unfortunate thing about supporting K-State football is that you hear things like "bandwagon" and "weak schedule". I think its great to see a football program do a complete 180 after being the laughing stock of the Big 8 after so many decades.
So, in summary...it's not so much about the schools as it is about the state. I also think KCMO is great city. I would like to live in that area one day.

I'm Startin to feel that Rock Chalk itch by the way.

A Chiefs/Royals/Jayhawks Fan Living Where Cowboys/Rangers/Longhorns Fans Live...Help!