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View Full Version : Two Guys Who Need to Be Benched or Shown the Door


Luzap
09-03-2000, 08:41 PM
I don't know about anyone else, but for my money's worth Kimble Anders and Donnell Bennett are taking up roster space that is valuable.

I have nothing personal against either one, but feel that neither is going to be a major contributor this year. Bennett could be caught from behind by anyone who isn't on crutches, and Anders is just there , IMO, as a salute to his former accomplishments.

Thank both of them and send them off to the waiver wire.

mmaddog
***************

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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

htismaqe
09-03-2000, 08:45 PM
Because Anders is..well..Anders he is here. But if I had to pick one to leave...I'd vote for D Williams. He SUCKS! Has zero heart and is appearantly a big P U S S Y.

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~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

Luzap
09-03-2000, 08:50 PM
Duck:

We are stuck with Williams due to his cap issues. Bennett and Anders don't carry that same problem.

If we are going on who deserves to go, regardless of cap issues, then Williams goes to the head of the class.

mmaddog
**************

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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

htismaqe
09-03-2000, 08:59 PM
I know, Maddog. Just voicing my wish list. I should have said..at the first available moment.

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~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

ColoradoChief
09-03-2000, 09:01 PM
If there's anything Dan Williams does more frequently than get injured, it's get penalized.

As for Anders and Bennett, I agree but I'm not so sure what's there for replacements. Bring up Gall and find another guy, I guess. KA's is too light to play FB, IMO.

redbrian
09-03-2000, 09:10 PM
Cap issue aside, here's who I think need to be traded for anything we can get.

Grbac
Williams
McGlockton
Alexander

Williams, Glock and Alexander all have the talent, but almost always underachieve despite being among the highest paid players on the team.

Grbac just isn't that talented. He's really just a backup QB.

htismaqe
09-03-2000, 09:21 PM
Cannibal- I agree 100%. DW is a waste of oxygen out there. Clearly he will go down in Carls history along side T Jenkins.

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~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

SoCal Chief
09-03-2000, 09:26 PM
That's the point Cannibal, EG isn't a backup QB. Chiefs fans have some skewed opinion that every QB in the league is as talented as Peyton Manning but ours. (Maybe that's because they play against our D) There aren't 31 QB's in the league better than EG. You could attempt to name 31, but in reality about half of them are as good as EG or worse.

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Donkhater

htismaqe
09-03-2000, 09:35 PM
Donkhater- You are right! Grbashers can't name one AVAILABLE QB better than Elvis. That blame lies squarly on the head and shoulders of Carl. He should have grabbed Jeff George when he was available.

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~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

redbrian
09-03-2000, 09:41 PM
I disagree Donkhater.

I know there are team that have worse QB's than Grbac.

But to honest, I don't give a **** who plays QB for those other teams.

I care about who plays for the Chiefs and Grbac is just not good enough IMO.

htismaqe
09-03-2000, 10:12 PM
Ok Canibal, I'll bite...who should be our QB?

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~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

redbrian
09-03-2000, 10:21 PM
The Chiefs need to either tank the season so they can draft high enough to pick up either Michael Vick or Drew Brees, or they need to package a trade with a team that will be picking that high.

One way or another, this team has got to find a QB that can make plays with the game on the line.

I believe the age of the pocket passer is beginning to die. IMO, Michael Vick is the man the Chiefs should draft. He will get you first downs w/ his legs if necessary and he's got a rifle arm. He will make plays out of nothing. He is a clutch QB and will be a probowler in the NFL barring any unforeseen circumstances.

Stuckinbama
09-03-2000, 10:25 PM
I'll jump in here with regards to the next QB if there is indeed going to be onw. I'd go accross the state and get Trent Green. Then, I'd draft a RB in round 1(our pick should be really good). We then would have Green, Morris, Gonzo and a stud RB. Of course it's all for nothing as long as Jimmy Raye runs the offense. I like playing GM. It's easy when I don't know all the cap implications.

JOhn
09-03-2000, 10:26 PM
Hmmm...

Cannibal, explain to me again how Vick or Brees can make Alexander catch TDs?

Would they be better in the two minute drill (when the playoffs are on the line in the last game of the sason) at putting their team in position to kick the winning field Goal?

Luz
not understanding the logic...

Stuckinbama
09-03-2000, 10:27 PM
Cannibal,
isn't Vick just a soph.?

htismaqe
09-03-2000, 10:28 PM
Canibal, now your dreaming. I'm not trying to be an ass_hole about this. But you know the Chiefs will never (under this management) do that. Trading the farm for an unproven QB is not the answer. Referance Ryan Leaf. We need to go after a FA QB.

On the other hand....at this rate, we may not have to trash the season on purpose.

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~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

redbrian
09-03-2000, 10:28 PM
Alexander should be part of the trade to obtain the high draft choice.

The starting receivers should be Lockett and Morris.

htismaqe
09-03-2000, 10:29 PM
Now that i agree with!

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~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

redbrian
09-03-2000, 10:30 PM
Peyton Manning was unproven as well, but he turned out quite nicely IMO.

Vick is a SOPH. But I heard that will be able to enter the draft for some reason. I think he will be the required age by the time the draft rolls around.

redbrian
09-03-2000, 10:34 PM
Listen guys,

We now a potential probowler at WR. TRich if given the carries is a potential probowler. We have our probowl TE. We have one of the best o-lines in the league.

The thing we lack is a star QB. We've got to try to get one somehow. It's certainly not going to fall into our laps. We need to take a chance.

With Vick at QB they could have an EXPLOSIVE offense!

[This message has been edited by Cannibal (edited 09-03-2000).]

ColoradoChief
09-03-2000, 10:35 PM
"I believe the age of the pocket passer is beginning to die."

Hmmm. Peyton Manning, Kurt Warner, Brad Johnson, etc. I think most of the good QBs ARE pocket passers. I do agree that Grbac is not among them.

As far as our passing game today, BOTH Grbac AND the WRs deserve blame. Grbac was NOT accurate. Alexander's TD was behind him, and would have been an INT had DA not ripped it out of his hands. I also might have homer-vision, but I think Indy was getting away with a lot of contact in pass coverage (before the completion). The recievers dropped a lot of passes, but Grbac also threw a lot of bad passes, and a few uncathable balls. Neither deserve defending right now. They should have practiced a lot more in preseason to get in synch. Rison's starting all preseason hampered the other WRs.

htismaqe
09-03-2000, 10:36 PM
I can't argue with you because I'm unfamiliar with Vick. Our inability to find a QB dates back to the draft of '83. Maybe we should start by hiring guys like Bill Polian.

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~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

ColoradoChief
09-03-2000, 10:36 PM
And I think labeling T-Rich as a potential Pro Bowler is quite hasty. He was good, but hardly great out there today.

redbrian
09-03-2000, 10:40 PM
This should be the Chiefs 2001 starting offensive lineup IMO.

QB: Vick
HB: Richardson
FB: Best available from the draft/or a free-agent
LT: Tait
LG: Blackshear
C: Grunny
RG: Shields
RT: Riley
TE: Gonzo
WR: Lockett
WR: Morris

This could be an explosive offense.

Stuckinbama
09-03-2000, 10:41 PM
IMHO, the blame for the POOR offense we saw today should lie on the ENTIRE coaching staff. Preseason DOES matter and the starters should get MORE reps - period! Otherwise you have to use the first couple of REAL games to work things out. Gun needs to wake up here. The Jimmy Raye experiment will end this year.

BroncoFan
09-03-2000, 10:41 PM
"With Vick at QB the could have an EXPLOSIVE offense!"

ROLMAO..

that was:

"With WHITE at QB the could have an EXPLOSIVE offense!"

Please, the QB is not the problem, when your recivers can't catch and you OC only has 5 plays in his book, 3 of which are running, NO ONE is gonna make your O Explosive.

redbrian
09-03-2000, 10:43 PM
G-man,

TRich was only given 13 carries, so it's hard to tell.

He did average 4.5 yards per carry and broke a lot tackles.

Gun is a moron for giving Cloud and Bennett his carries.

I did say POTENTIAL probowler though.

[This message has been edited by Cannibal (edited 09-03-2000).]

ColoradoChief
09-03-2000, 10:45 PM
We could offer our whole draft and not get a shot at Vick. T-Rich and Lockett, no matter how much you like them, have not proven themselves as legitimate starters. T-Rich has had ONE game at HB. Let's give him a few more games before annoiting him a potential pro bowler. Lockett is a solid #3 possession WR and that's it. And I LIKE the guy.

redbrian
09-03-2000, 10:47 PM
John,

You don't know football if you're comparing Vick to Ted White.

Have you ever watched Vick play?

BroncoFan
09-03-2000, 10:51 PM
I will igonore that.

No I have not seen him play.

MY POINT was, last year it was WHITE, and how he was so GREAT. Read the rest of my post, no matter WHO is at QB, unless you got a montana or elway, your not going anywere when your WR's & TE's can't catch or you OC is a moron.

redbrian
09-03-2000, 10:53 PM
G-man,

Some of the best QB's in the league will soon be of the mobile variety.

Culpepper, McNabb, McNown, Smith and soon Vick. <P>

ColoradoChief
09-03-2000, 10:54 PM
Purely opinion, but OK.

redbrian
09-03-2000, 10:55 PM
If you haven't ever watched him play you don't know enough about the subject to comment. <P>

htismaqe
09-03-2000, 10:56 PM
Calling Lockett and labeling him as only a legitiment #3 makes no sense...especially when he obviously has the best hands on the team. IMO he is our best receiver untli Morris learns more. Lockett is at the very least our best #2.

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~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

Luzap
09-03-2000, 10:59 PM
Cannibal:

How much have you seen Vick play?

Living here in the S.E., I get to see a great deal of him and he is good. BUT , he is prone to put a great deal too much air under his passes and leave them out there for Int's. If they can do that to him in College ball, then the pro's will eat him alive.

He is not the second coming of Peyton Manning, but he is probably the best QB available in college. Quincy Carter from Georgia is probably the 2nd bes, then Drew Brees.

mmaddog
*************

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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

ColoradoChief
09-03-2000, 10:59 PM
Morris outplayed him, and with less playing time. Check the stats, Lockett was third. It's not like he was being covered any differently. How many games do we have to see Morris outplay him before we make him a starter?

BroncoFan
09-03-2000, 11:00 PM
Cannibal
Please remove your head from your A@@, your Ego is a little to big to make in anyway.

Plase try and READ my post, before you insist on insulting me and what I may or may not know ..ok?

AGAIn if you read my earlier post, you MIGHT get my point, but since word comprehension is tough for you, here it is again.


IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO YOUR QB IS. IF YOUR OC STINKS & YOUR TEAMATES CAN'T CATCH.

As for comparing WHITE to VIC, I DIDN'T, I simply stated last year it was White who was supposed to save us. Now I'm supposed to believe that VIC is the next Elway/Montana?

How many year of college bal has he played so far again?

ColoradoChief
09-03-2000, 11:01 PM
No doubt, Lockett has great hands, but there's more than hands to playing the WR position. Morris has the total package. Alexander, although he dropped a lot of passes, put up better #s than Lockett. And I would assume they would use better coverage on Alexander, if anyone. I like Lockett too, but he has trouble getting open.

Luzap
09-03-2000, 11:03 PM
Also, just because he is mobile doesn't make him a sure bet to be a Pro QB. I can think of many who were like him that never made it big.

mmaddog
**************

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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

redbrian
09-03-2000, 11:10 PM
It's a moot point anyway, the Chiefs don't have the stones to make a move like that. I'm just daydreaming out loud.

<BR>

ColoradoChief
09-03-2000, 11:13 PM
Don't have the stones? To what? Sacrifice our season (purposely lose), or trade away our entire draft, plus next years?

BroncoFan
09-03-2000, 11:13 PM
Cannibal,
My Apoligies.

I Try not to get irratated by posts, but heck with out Denise around I gotta get worked up by someone. :P

Anyway, I agree with you as far ar taking a shot at a rookie QB. But still not ready to trow EG to the wolves

redbrian
09-03-2000, 11:15 PM
Vick led the nation in passing efficiency last year as a freshman, he can throw the ball and he's only going to get better.

redbrian
09-03-2000, 11:16 PM
Apology accepted John.

redbrian
09-03-2000, 11:19 PM
Gman,

As someone pointed out earlier, we might not have to tank the season on purpose.

But no, they donít have the stones to make the necessary move to get us a star QB. They never have. Thatís why weíve always had retreads in KC.<BR>

ColoradoChief
09-03-2000, 11:21 PM
Cannibal - It's pretty damn hard to get into a position to draft a franchise QB, especially when we're always drafting far back. So you would be happy if we gave up our entire draft, plus our '02 #1 and #3, and probably more since we'll be further back than N.O. was, to get a QB who may or may not be good? For every Manning there is a Leaf.

htismaqe
09-03-2000, 11:27 PM
G-Man- I think a more accurate statement would be ...for every Manning ther 10 Leafs. The NFL hasn't seen that kind of talent since '83. That is why it is so hard to draft for the future. I think it's FA or bust.

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~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

redbrian
09-03-2000, 11:27 PM
We should do whatever it takes to get a franchise QB. <P>

ColoradoChief
09-03-2000, 11:30 PM
Agreed, Duck Dog.

Cannibal - I think you're being a tad unrealistic in your desire to have a QB. Even if we traded away our future draft picks, obtained the #1 spot, and used it on the top QB prospect, we may still not get our franchise QB. Then we'd be screwed far worse than we are now.

redbrian
09-03-2000, 11:30 PM
For every Manning there are 10 Leaf's?

In the 99 draft alone there were 6 QB's taken that are currently starters for other teams and so far they all look pretty damn good.

IMO, that was the Chiefs best chance to get their franchise QB.

I guess Jeff Garcia will be available after the season though.

[This message has been edited by Cannibal (edited 09-04-2000).]

htismaqe
09-03-2000, 11:37 PM
Canibal...Jeff Garcia...ouch! OK...10 may be too high a number...but I was hopeing my sarcasm would be seen. Manning is in a class all his own....but I think I read earlier...maybe from you, that the future lies in mobile passers...and I agree. All those QB's you mentioned are tough. They all score points. But It's like comparing Marino to Elway.

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~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

stevieray
09-03-2000, 11:50 PM
Morris should start next week as wide out.

Lockett has always had trouble seperating from defenders. He has a better opportunity at seperation from the slot.

If we truely want to use bigger receivers we should let Parker be number 3 on third and long, and use Lockett as possession receiver on shorter downs.

homebizy
09-04-2000, 10:08 AM
It is pretty obvious that you either have a deadly accurate passer or you have a guy who can makes plays on the run. Without either, you will not win playoff games. The Chiefs have Troy Aikman without the accuracy. When Grbac was forced out of the pocket and tried to make a play, he awkwardly rolled to his left and threw an off balanced pass that resulted in a touchdown for the other team. That is typical Elvis. When he has to improvise, he is rotten. Like Aikman, Elvis is best when he is a statue. I cant wait to see how he handles the pressure from the Titans.

AustinChief
09-04-2000, 10:12 AM
JOhn- Of course you are correct, however many on this BB are very shortsighted and short of memory as well.

All we heard last year was how wonderful Moon and White would be. In fact, Cannibal was calling for White a great deal.

What happened to those supporters now? Well, they have found new QB's to compare to, and next year they will find even newer ones.

morphius
09-04-2000, 10:23 AM
Players I'd like to see cut or traded due to poor performance, or not enough production for the money:

Elvis
DA
Glock
Williams
Gray

EG would be the only difficult one to replace, IMO. A top 10 draft pick might remedy that situation.

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This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!

Stuckinbama
09-04-2000, 10:37 AM
Jimmy Raye and Mike Stock STILL are the two guys that I would have booted out the door.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

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ChiTown
09-04-2000, 10:51 AM
Hell you could get Eric Crouch to play QB at KC easier than Vick. He's a better runner and he's great at the play action pass. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Tribal Warfare
09-04-2000, 01:11 PM
hey packfan did you happen to notice that grbac's arm got hit when he threw that interception???? he wasn't off balance at all until his arm got hit. so just get your facts straight before you open your mouth and make an *** of yourself.

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~Thats why they call me slim shady~

homebizy
09-04-2000, 05:47 PM
Slim,

That pass was an ill advised throw, none the less. Grbac rolling to his left, under heavy pressure, will bring nothing but a sack, fumble or interception. He is a pocket passer in a 1960's offense.

WarPaint
09-04-2000, 05:51 PM
I was not happy with Elvis' performance yesterday. However, I think the Chiefs could go into the draft and find the next Manning, or Montana, or Elway, whoever, and the Chiefs offensive staff, led by Moe Raye would not be able to develop that QB into a pro bowl calibre player. Until Raye is fired, we will never see a QB or RB excel in KC. I'm not saying that Grbac would be a great QB, but I honestly beleve that he would be a much better QB under the guidance of an OC who actually understood the concept of offense.
As for me, I want to see DA and Bennett riding the pine.

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Red Eyes
[i]Chinn Up, it ain't nothin' but a thang.</I>

BroncoFan
09-04-2000, 06:43 PM
Milkman,
Well put.

Wolfman,
I've been saying it all along, but no one seems to understand. Thanks for the support


Not ready to buy into the next "Elway/Montana" Guy, till he proves something.