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Ash
08-27-2004, 07:19 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/08/27/fbi.spy/index.html

Hel'n
08-27-2004, 08:22 PM
FBI investigating possible spy for Israel
Official: High-level Pentagon worker could have shaped policy



WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The FBI has evidence that a person who has been working at high levels in the Pentagon may be a spy for Israel, a senior official confirmed to CNN on Friday.

The suspect could have been in a position to influence Bush administration policy toward Iran and Iraq, the senior official said.

However, another government official said the suspect is "not in a level to influence policy."

"He is an analyst in an undersecretary's office," this official said.

A senior Pentagon official confirmed to CNN that Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld "had been made generally aware that the Justice Department had an investigation going on."

CBS News, which first reported the story, said the FBI had developed evidence against the suspect, including photographs and conversations recorded through wiretaps.

The network said the suspect has ties to two senior Pentagon officials: Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Feith.

Multiple sources have told CNN that the investigation is well along, and one government official described the evidence against the suspect as a "slam dunk case."

The government official said "there has been no decision to prosecute the individual."

Another government source with knowledge of the case told CNN that the FBI is investigating possible spying at the Pentagon involving Israel and the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, a pro-Israel lobbying group.

AIPAC released a statement late Friday calling news reports that two of its staff members may have passed internal White House policy deliberations on Iran to Israel "false and baseless."

The statement said AIPAC "is cooperating fully" with government authorities, including providing documents and information, and making staff members available for interviews.

"Neither AIPAC nor any of its employees has violated any laws or rules, nor has AIPAC or its employees ever received information they believed was secret or classified," the statement said. "AIPAC is an American organization comprised of proud and loyal U.S. citizens committed to promoting American interests. We do not condone or tolerate any violation of any U.S. law or interests."

Washington insiders note that it is not unusual for friendly governments to have access to certain classified information, so even if the allegations are correct, not everyone involved may have thought they were involved in espionage. Still, one U.S. source is calling the case "a very serious matter."

An Israeli Embassy spokesman told CNN that "we categorically deny these allegations. They are completely false and outrageous."

An Israeli official in Washington said the U.S. government has not contacted the Israelis about any such investigation.

The Justice Department, speaking for the FBI, refused to comment, saying only, "We cannot confirm or deny the report."

An FBI spokesman said the bureau has no comment on the CBS report.

CNN's David Ensor, Barbara Starr, Kelli Arena and Terry Frieden contributed to this report

Hel'n
08-27-2004, 08:23 PM
Figures... :mad:

Donger
08-27-2004, 08:45 PM
FWIW, we have spooks in Israel. This isn't exactly earth-shattering news. It's been going on since the beginning of modern human history.

jAZ
08-27-2004, 09:04 PM
I'd be curious to hear Mike Michigan's thoughts as a rumor-mill guy.

I heard a couple of months ago that the "techtonic plates under DC were going to shift" and that it was related to the Valerie Plame incident.

I read on DU a bit ago that MSNBC (on TV, I didn't see it myself) is reporting that this Spy investigation is directly related to the Plame investigation going on now. That the Isreali's and their spy are responsible for forging the Uranium documents.

The speculation from the above is that the "Spy" is part of the intelligence stove pipe in the Office of Special Plans that Wolfowitz was responsible for. CBS is reporting that the spy was "inside the decision-making loop" so they could "try to influence the outcome." (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/27/eveningnews/main639143.shtml)

To me that could mean Douglas Feith, Paul Wolfowitz or one of their aids. I'll admit that guess is partly due to religion (or my guess as to their religion) and also because of their agressive pushing for the war. And where they are within the administration.

I'm curious what the MM's take on this is...

the Talking Can
08-27-2004, 09:34 PM
I read on DU a bit ago that MSNBC (on TV, I didn't see it myself) is reporting that this Spy investigation is directly related to the Plame investigation going on now. That the Isreali's and their spy are responsible for forging the Uranium documents.

The speculation from the above is that the "Spy" is part of the intelligence stove pipe in the Office of Special Plans that Wolfowitz was responsible for. And that the spy was "inside the decision-making loop" so they could "try to influence the outcome." (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/27/eveningnews/main639143.shtml)
...

this admin. would be toast if that were true....it is way past time for an investigation of the OSP, which brought us Chalabi among other whoppers

the forged documents have long been speculated to have come from Isreal or Italy, which might explain why this administration has made no effort to figure out how they came to be used....

Pitt Gorilla
08-27-2004, 10:12 PM
FWIW, we have spooks in Israel. This isn't exactly earth-shattering news. It's been going on since the beginning of modern human history.You're surely not implying that this is somehow ok, are you?!?

jAZ
08-27-2004, 10:13 PM
I read on DU a bit ago that MSNBC (on TV, I didn't see it myself)
I just saw the segment.

The above is pretty close to what they reported.

A Former CIA Analyst was talking about this. He said the following:

1) He's known about this for months now (timeline fits when I started hearing about the "techtonic plates")
2) It is indeed related to (result of) the Plame/Niger/Uranium forged documents
3) It is a "high ranking official" in the Defense Department
4) It could spread to the National Security Council

jAZ
08-27-2004, 10:19 PM
You're surely not implying that this is somehow ok, are you?!?
It goes to the heart of the justification for War. If true, it totally discredits the case for war in Iraq. It's a HUGE black eye for the Bush administration.

A quick attempt to trivialize the issue isn't at all suprising from Donger or any Con.

I'm guessing that his justification is just to add context to the issue. Which is fair. However, a more meaningful context are the consequences of this story. If Isreal pushed forged documents into the Cheney/Bush intel pipeline... and the CIA discredited the documents... and Bush decided to ignore the CIA and rely on the spy's forged (and discredited) intel in making his most dramatic and public case for war in Iraq...

Then Bush is at the center of the entire storm of lying to make a false case for war in Iraq. And knowingly lying to the American people in order to secure political support for his war.

the Talking Can
08-27-2004, 10:35 PM
I just saw the segment.

The above is pretty close to what they reported.

A Former CIA Analyst was talking about this. He said the following:

1) He's known about this for months now (timeline fits when I started hearing about the "techtonic plates")
2) It is indeed related to (result of) the Plame/Niger/Uranium forged documents
3) It is a "high ranking official" in the Defense Department
4) It could spread to the National Security Council

I just saw that interview, I couldn't believe what he said...

His name was Larry Johnson, I think, an ex-intelligence agent...said he's known about the investigation for months, and then he said- unprompted- that the main thrust of the investigation was the forged documents and whether or not they were forged by Isreal to assist the administration in justifying the invasion and how they might have moved through the channels....he was speaking so casually it was if he didn't understand the serious of the issue (though obviously he does)

this story is already breaking and will erase the dim-bulb vets pronto...Pat Buchanon was on immediately afterward and he speculated that the investigation was leaked in order to ruin it, but he was just rambling off the cuff....he was, though, shocked by what Johnson had just said....

Hel'n
08-27-2004, 10:39 PM
This is gonna get really juicy... ;)

I can see the headlines now:

"Swift Boat Veterans for Truth File Affidavits Stating Kerry Planted the Forged Documents"

:p

Ugly Duck
08-28-2004, 12:41 AM
"AIPAC is an American organization comprised of proud and loyal U.S. citizens committed to promoting American interests."

Oh come on... those folks are taking a page right out of the Republican "Book of Lies." Watch Karl Rove sic the Swift Liars on whoever broke this story....

jAZ
08-28-2004, 12:55 AM
Watch Karl Rove sic the Swift Liars on whoever broke this story....
Actually, Buchanon said that he suspected that Rove (or someone in the Bush Administration) leaked it to interfere with the investigation.

KCWolfman
08-28-2004, 08:19 AM
There is more speculation here than in Vegas.


You guys have connected a great deal of dots without anything other than a headline - you must be masterminds.

This guy is disgusting to sell secrets for any reason - IMO, the death penalty is not beyond the realm of sanity (as for the asses selling secrets to the Russians and Chinese during the Clinton admin), but let's be serious. Most news agencys are stating that he will probably be charged with a lesser charge than espionage.

I am just glad the traitor was caught.

memyselfI
08-28-2004, 09:44 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/08/27/fbi.spy/index.html


Interesting timing of this breaking news. CNN also alluded that someone in the NSC could be involved as well. :shake:

I think it does shed some light on that convenient Swift Boat hysteria that came out of nowhere and we've endured the past couple of weeks.

Perhaps raising the terror level again didn't seem like a good idea. ;)

KCWolfman
08-28-2004, 09:45 AM
Interesting timing of this breaking news. CNN also alluded that someone in the NSC could be involved as well. :shake:

I think it does shed some light on that convenient Swift Boat hysteria that came out of nowhere and we've endured the past couple of weeks.

Perhaps raising the terror level again didn't seem like a good idea. ;)
And the odds in Vegas keep rising.


Look out, black helicopter!

jAZ
08-28-2004, 09:54 AM
Interesting timing of this breaking news. CNN also alluded that someone in the NSC could be involved as well. :shake:

I think it does shed some light on that convenient Swift Boat hysteria that came out of nowhere and we've endured the past couple of weeks.

Perhaps raising the terror level again didn't seem like a good idea. ;)
The investigation has been underway for about a year... Given the nature of the spying (being so central to the motivation for Iraq war, lies about the cause of Iraq War, etc.), I'm not sure that the Bush Administration should really be investigating themselves on this one.

The desire to dispose of this issue quickly would be both obvious and natural. Much like their desire to push back the investigation of the Bush Administration's USE of intelligence was pushed back until after the election, conveinently.

Cannibal
08-28-2004, 10:06 AM
You're surely not implying that this is somehow ok, are you?!?

Bush could light up a crack pipe in the oval office, take a puff and then cut off a baby's head a suck on the stump for sustenance and these people would still try to find ways to defend him.

KC Jones
08-28-2004, 10:19 AM
Bush could light up a crack pipe in the oval office, take a puff and then cut off a baby's head a suck on the stump for sustenance and these people would still try to find ways to defend him.

You seem to be imply he hasn't done that. Where's your proof?

:D

(sorry, I couldn't resist. Before anyone flies off the handle that's meant tongue in cheek)

Ash
08-28-2004, 10:26 AM
Bush could light up a crack pipe in the oval office, take a puff and then cut off a baby's head a suck on the stump for sustenance and these people would still try to find ways to defend him.

David Cross a comedian that does alot political comedy has a bit very close to what you are talking about .He was talking about the terror alert system and how it always coincides with bad news for the bush administration."well we gotta raise the alert Bush just ate a baby,a jewish baby better take it to red". Its on his new CD titled "its not funny",the whole cd is great.

memyselfI
08-28-2004, 10:36 AM
I just saw that interview, I couldn't believe what he said...

His name was Larry Johnson, I think, an ex-intelligence agent...said he's known about the investigation for months, and then he said- unprompted- that the main thrust of the investigation was the forged documents and whether or not they were forged by Isreal to assist the administration in justifying the invasion and how they might have moved through the channels....he was speaking so casually it was if he didn't understand the serious of the issue (though obviously he does)

this story is already breaking and will erase the dim-bulb vets pronto...Pat Buchanon was on immediately afterward and he speculated that the investigation was leaked in order to ruin it, but he was just rambling off the cuff....he was, though, shocked by what Johnson had just said....


Evidently this investigation has not been a guarded secret and is somehow linked to the Valerie Plume leak? I thought I heard Johnson make the connection.

All I've got to say is that the Pentagon, CIA, and SD are being run like it's the fuggin Wild West.

Under Rumsfeld's watch the following has occured...in no particular mind boggling order:

-we went to war based on faulty intelligence and thus built a faulty war plan

-we 'miscalculated' the level of resistance post war.

-we misjudged the amount of money and time needed to rebuild what we destroyed.

-we engaged in humiliating and shocking abuse of prisoners and had photographs (not suitable for framing) to prove it.

-we have our best buddies spying under our nose. They probably felt they could seeing that DUHbya has bent over every time Sharon has asked.

-we overpaid contractors who were overbilling us and then we decide whether or not we will pay for their illegal invoices.

-we hire rogue contractors to run highest level security operations outside international law in a war zone.

I'm sure I'm missing lots more. I have a lunch date to attend. While I'm dining I'm sure other Rumsfeld debacles will pop into my brain thereby runing my appetite.

Ash
08-28-2004, 10:52 AM
Evidently this investigation has not been a guarded secret and is somehow linked to the Valerie Plume leak? I thought I heard Johnson make the connection.

All I've got to say is that the Pentagon, CIA, and SD are being run like it's the fuggin Wild West.

Under Rumsfeld's watch the following has occured...in no particular mind boggling order:

-we went to war based on faulty intelligence and thus built a faulty war plan

-we 'miscalculated' the level of resistance post war.

-we misjudged the amount of money and time needed to rebuild what we destroyed.

-we engaged in humiliating and shocking abuse of prisoners and had photographs (not suitable for framing) to prove it.

-we have our best buddies spying under our nose. They probably felt they could seeing that DUHbya has bent over every time Sharon has asked.

-we overpaid contractors who were overbilling us and then we decide whether or not we will pay for their illegal invoices.

-we hire rogue contractors to run highest level security operations outside international law in a war zone.

I'm sure I'm missing lots more. I have a lunch date to attend. While I'm dining I'm sure other Rumsfeld debacles will pop into my brain thereby runing my appetite.

We went to war to liberate the people of Iraq not because of the wmds.We had a occuping force in europe for 60 years after WWII, liberating people from tyranny takes time and money.There were no ulterior motives,you would be a fool and a communist to suggest that there were.

The current administration has your best interest in mind go back to sleep or watch more of our fine reality based programing.

KCWolfman
08-28-2004, 11:36 AM
We went to war to liberate the people of Iraq not because of the wmds.We had a occuping force in europe for 60 years after WWII, liberating people from tyranny takes time and money.There were no ulterior motives,you would be a fool and a communist to suggest that there were.

The current administration has your best interest in mind go back to sleep or watch more of our fine reality based programing.
Nay, the lies must stop. We are in bed with the Israelis and were only caught because of the good and decisive work by Michael Moore who cares mostly about you and little about his own pocket and the evil swiftvets have orchestrated the deal to sell the secrets and an escape plan for the accused.

Oh and look over there, GWB was awol.

memyselfI
08-28-2004, 12:49 PM
We went to war to liberate the people of Iraq not because of the wmds.We had a occuping force in europe for 60 years after WWII, liberating people from tyranny takes time and money.There were no ulterior motives,you would be a fool and a communist to suggest that there were.

The current administration has your best interest in mind go back to sleep or watch more of our fine reality based programing.

Who 'liberates' them from US now? :hmmm: ;)

Donger
08-28-2004, 02:18 PM
You're surely not implying that this is somehow ok, are you?!?

No, it's not okay. I'm just pointing out that "friendly" countries spy on each other as well.

Michael Michigan
09-15-2004, 05:07 PM
Hey guys--remember this?

RATHER'S OTHER IMPLODING 'SCOOP'

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/28563.htm

September 15, 2004 --

By ERIC FETTMANN


The growing Memogate furor over the authenticity of documents said to cast doubts on George W. Bush's National Guard record isn't the only controversy dogging Dan Rather and CBS News these days.

The network is coming under fire in some quarters for a "CBS Evening News" broadcast about what it billed as a sensational national-security scandal that may have impacted critical U.S. policy decisions in the Middle East.

Less than a month later, however, the "sensation" has fallen far short of its original explosive billing. But that hype has provided potent ammunition for enemies of both Israel and the Bush administration's Mideast policies ammunition that those forces are gleefully using.

By all accounts, what started off as a story about espionage at the highest levels of the Pentagon has turned into, at worst, a case of the possible misuse of classified documents specifically, a single draft memo on U.S. policy on Iran that a Defense Department analyst may have shown to someone at the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), who may then have passed the information on to Israeli officials.



That's not a light matter, of course. Classified material is marked secret for a reason. But it hardly rises to the level of CBS' original claims, which led the evening news broadcast of Aug. 27:

"We start tonight with breaking news," Rather intoned breathlessly, "a CBS News exclusive, what could be a serious security breach inside the United States Defense Department. Federal agents now believe there is a mole working at the highest levels of the Pentagon, a spy for a major world power who may have been in a position to influence Bush administration policy policy on Iran and Iraq."

Lesley Stahl went on to report: "The FBI believes it has solid evidence that the suspected mole" later identified as Larry Franklin, a mid-level analyst with no policymaking input "supplied Israel with classified material that includes secret White House policy deliberations on Iran."

This, declared Stahl, "put the Israelis . . . inside the decision-making loop, so they could try to influence the outcome." And, she added, there's another concern: "Did Israel also use the analyst to try to influence U.S. policy on the war in Iraq?"

The story, in short, rang all the right bells to gladden a conspiracy theorist's heart: Israel, AIPAC (the leading pro-Israel lobby) and neo-conservative war hawks in particular, Franklin's boss, Assistant Defense Secretary Douglas Feith, long a chief target of the Bush-bashers. And while Stahl never mentioned Jonathan Pollard, the U.S. Navy analyst caught spying for Israel two decades ago, the comparisons seemed unavoidable.

But: CBS said arrests were imminent yet none have materialized. And no one is talking anymore about moles or sinister forces secretly shaping U.S. policy or even about espionage, for that matter. (Both AIPAC and the Israelis deny having done anything illegal or improper.)

A grand jury is hearing evidence, but if any charges are leveled, it's unlikely to be anything more serious than "mishandling classified material."

Still, as Saul Singer wrote in The Jerusalem Post last Friday, "the anti-[Israel] cabal doesn't care if there are any arrests, because they have already succeeded in portraying Jewish power as something sinister, perhaps even treasonous."

Pat Buchanan did precisely that on "Meet the Press" last Sunday, when he demanded that officials "investigate whether there is a nest of Pollardites in the Pentagon who have been transmitting American secrets through AIPAC, the Israeli lobby, over to . . . the Israeli embassy, to be transferred to [Prime Minister Ariel] Sharon." (This came right after Buchanan declared that U.S. support of Israel was the direct cause of 9/11 and all other forms of Islamic terrorism.)

In fact, nothing about CBS' original allegations makes sense. For one thing, Israel has learned its lesson from the fallout over the Pollard fiasco. And solidifying the U.S.-Israeli relationship has been the cornerstone of Sharon's policy. It's unthinkable that he would jeopardize it with something like this particularly over information that Washington and Jerusalem already share at the highest levels.

Clearly, much more is at work here, in terms of why the story was leaked now and who provided the information. By all accounts, it wasn't to pressure any of the supposed targets both AIPAC and Franklin have been cooperating with investigators.

Suffice it to say, though, that this has less to do with national security than with partisan politics. As Michael Ledeen of the American Enterprise Institute, a friend of Franklin's, told The New York Sun: "When the FBI has a case against someone . . . they indict him and arrest him and put him away. They don't go to Lesley Stahl."