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Cochise
09-07-2004, 12:47 PM
XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX TUE SEPT 07, 2004 11:46:05 ET XXXXX

KERRY COSPONSORED BILL BANNING GUN HE WAVES

Was Dem presidential hopeful John Kerry seen this weekend waving a gun which would have been banned if legislation he co-sponsored became law?

Kerry co-sponsored S. 1431 last year (“The Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2003) which would have banned a "semiautomatic shotgun that has a pistol grip.”

Opponents of the bill successfully argued how nearly all guns have "pistol grips," inluding millions of Browning Auto-5 shotguns produced since 1903.

Photos show Kerry's hand resting on the "pistol grip," as loosely defined in the bill. [Section SEC. 2; (H) (ii) and (b)(42): "The term 'pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip."]

Kerry was presented with the semiautomatic shotgun during a Labor Day stop in Racine, West Virginia.

"I thank you for the gift, but I can't take it to the debate with me," Kerry told a cheering crowd as he held up the device.

But Kerry's gun bill would have also banned any "gift" transaction!

[It is not clear if Kerry completed the required paperwork (Form 4473) before he claimed the gun.]

Developing...

-----------------------------------------------------------
Filed By Matt Drudge
Reports are moved when circumstances warrant
http://www.drudgereport.com for updates
(c)DRUDGE REPORT 2004
Not for reproduction without permission of the author

Cochise
09-07-2004, 12:48 PM
...

jAZ
09-07-2004, 12:57 PM
...
That's the gun? What makes anyone claim that's a "pistol grip"?

Duck Dog
09-07-2004, 12:59 PM
He can't even catch a football. Who in their right mind would allow him to have a gun?

RINGLEADER
09-07-2004, 01:00 PM
He's a gun-man, but he votes with the anti-gun lobby.

He believes life begins at conception, but he votes with the abortion lobby.

He votes for No Child Left Behind, but now agrees with the NEA that it is bad.

He votes for the Patriot Act, but now agrees with the ACLU that it should be repealed.

He says he's against the first Gulf War, then says he supports it.

He says he's for the Iraq War Resolution, then refuses to support funding for the war.

You could just keep going on and on and on with this guy. I can't wait for the feeding frenzy inside the Dem party if this guy loses. He can still win it, but it's starting to amaze me that one candidate can screw up a campaign as thoroughly as this guy. He's a transparent phony in everything he does on the stump...from his stupid slow-motion punch into the air to his feeble "prayer hands" to his laughable little salutes.

Baby Lee
09-07-2004, 01:01 PM
Kerry, where the stupid never ends.

Not a big issue in the overall scheme of things, but a perfect example of the holes his brand of politics dig on themselves.
First, he co-sponsors a bill that would have outlawed the gun he presently holds as a gift from supporters. Thus, if he had his way, both he and his supporters would be engaging in a criminal act with this exchange and display.
Now, he holds up a the gun and thanks his supporters for the great gift, showing how stupid it was to co-sponsor the legislation in the first place. He's not a criminal, his supporters are not criminals. There is no reason to criminalize this exchange and display as he once wished to do.

Cochise
09-07-2004, 01:03 PM
That's the gun? What makes anyone claim that's a "pistol grip"?

Didn't read this one either eh...

Opponents of the bill successfully argued how nearly all guns have "pistol grips," inluding millions of Browning Auto-5 shotguns produced since 1903.

Photos show Kerry's hand resting on the "pistol grip," as loosely defined in the bill. [Section SEC. 2; (H) (ii) and (b)(42): "The term 'pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip."]

Duck Dog
09-07-2004, 01:09 PM
That's the gun? What makes anyone claim that's a "pistol grip"?


Because that is how the proposed law reads. It leaves way too much room to call that shotgun stock 'gripped'.

Link to bill (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:S.1431:)

RINGLEADER
09-07-2004, 01:12 PM
That's the gun? What makes anyone claim that's a "pistol grip"?


Dunno. But Kerry's legislation said it was:

"`(42) PISTOL GRIP- The term `pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip."

http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:S.1431:

This is very different from the dictionary definition of "pistol grip":

Noun 1. pistol grip - a handle (as of a gun or saw) shaped like the butt of a pistol

http://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/pistol%20grip

and here's the definition of "grip" that Kerry's legislation would have included:

Noun 3. That by which anything is grasped; a handle or gripe; as, the grip of a sword.
Noun 4. A device for grasping or holding fast to something.

http://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/grip

FringeNC
09-07-2004, 01:16 PM
How long before Kerry is a national joke on par with Dukakis? Is he already there?

Cochise
09-07-2004, 01:17 PM
Because that is how the proposed law reads. It leaves way too much room to call that shotgun stock 'gripped'.

Link to bill (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:S.1431:)

I do find it humorous that sKerry is so liberal on guns that he cosponsored a gun bill so broad that it could serve as a ban on just about any gun, but now he's at a campaign stop waving them around.

Example #919484728183829 of sKerry trying to be on both sides of an issue.

BigMeatballDave
09-07-2004, 01:17 PM
He's a gun-man, but he votes with the anti-gun lobby.

He believes life begins at conception, but he votes with the abortion lobby.

He votes for No Child Left Behind, but now agrees with the NEA that it is bad.

He votes for the Patriot Act, but now agrees with the ACLU that it should be repealed.

He says he's against the first Gulf War, then says he supports it.

He says he's for the Iraq War Resolution, then refuses to support funding for the war.

You could just keep going on and on and on with this guy. I can't wait for the feeding frenzy inside the Dem party if this guy loses. He can still win it, but it's starting to amaze me that one candidate can screw up a campaign as thoroughly as this guy. He's a transparent phony in everything he does on the stump...from his stupid slow-motion punch into the air to his feeble "prayer hands" to his laughable little salutes.I can't wait 'til the Debates when Bush hammers him on this stuff...

Brock
09-07-2004, 01:24 PM
Gun grabbing scumbag.

Duck Dog
09-07-2004, 01:24 PM
I do find it humorous that sKerry is so liberal on guns that he cosponsored a gun bill so broad that it could serve as a ban on just about any gun, but now he's at a campaign stop waving them around.

Example #919484728183829 of sKerry trying to be on both sides of an issue.


He would pander to cock roaches if they could vote. Every time he handles a gun in public, his pic is spread all over the hunting and shooting BB's. If I can't find it on the other BB's, I will certainly being posting it up.

Duck Dog
09-07-2004, 01:26 PM
I'm sure jaz will be back with defending skerry's own anti-gun language.

That is, as soon as the DU tells him what to think.

Radar Chief
09-07-2004, 01:34 PM
That is, as soon as the DU tells him what to think.

Ducks Unlimited? :p

RINGLEADER
09-07-2004, 01:37 PM
I'm sure jaz will be back with defending skerry's own anti-gun language.

That is, as soon as the DU tells him what to think.


I don't.

This is where Jaz disappears because his beliefs have come crashing down upon meeting reality.

Kind of like his claim yesterday that I was comparing Clinton with terrorists, presumably by using the word "Clintonista". I have to presume that's what he was refering to because - like Kerry responding to the contradictions in his Vietnam record - he disappeared when informed that the suffix "ista" translates to "person" or "people".

PastorMikH
09-07-2004, 01:46 PM
[It is not clear if Kerry completed the required paperwork (Form 4473) before he claimed the gun.]



There's something worth the ATF looking into. :)

Duck Dog
09-07-2004, 01:49 PM
Ducks Unlimited? :p


That's why I alway's type it 'the DU'.


I don't think too many DU members will be voting for sKerry. :thumb:

RINGLEADER
09-07-2004, 02:15 PM
That's why I alway's type it 'the DU'.


I don't think too many DU members will be voting for sKerry. :thumb:


You know Dog, I just looked at the pic in your sig. Even my six-year-old knows you don't close your eyes when you're catching the football...

trndobrd
09-07-2004, 02:47 PM
XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX TUE SEPT 07, 2004 11:46:05 ET XXXXX

KERRY COSPONSORED BILL BANNING GUN HE WAVES

Was Dem presidential hopeful John Kerry seen this weekend waving a gun which would have been banned if legislation he co-sponsored became law?

Kerry co-sponsored S. 1431 last year (“The Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2003) which would have banned a "semiautomatic shotgun that has a pistol grip.”

Opponents of the bill successfully argued how nearly all guns have "pistol grips," inluding millions of Browning Auto-5 shotguns produced since 1903.

Photos show Kerry's hand resting on the "pistol grip," as loosely defined in the bill. [Section SEC. 2; (H) (ii) and (b)(42): "The term 'pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip."]

Kerry was presented with the semiautomatic shotgun during a Labor Day stop in Racine, West Virginia.

"I thank you for the gift, but I can't take it to the debate with me," Kerry told a cheering crowd as he held up the device.

But Kerry's gun bill would have also banned any "gift" transaction!

[It is not clear if Kerry completed the required paperwork (Form 4473) before he claimed the gun.]




But the bill wasn't passed. So it doesn't really matter. It's a legal firearm. Who cares if it is a weapon so dangerous that it shouldn't be in the hands of citizens?

Why don't you guys get off the Kerry bashing and stick to the issues of this campaign? Like Kerry's voting record in the Senate and how is legislative experience has prepared Kerry to develop a comprehensive plan for the WOT and the economy.

alpha_omega
09-07-2004, 02:52 PM
Classic confusion.
Too many positions...too many things to remember.

RINGLEADER
09-07-2004, 02:58 PM
But the bill wasn't passed. So it doesn't really matter. It's a legal firearm. Who cares if it is a weapon so dangerous that it shouldn't be in the hands of citizens?

Why don't you guys get off the Kerry bashing and stick to the issues of this campaign? Like Kerry's voting record in the Senate and how is legislative experience has prepared Kerry to develop a comprehensive plan for the WOT and the economy.


Kerry saying one thing and doing another isn't an issue of this campaign? It's the main issue IMO.

You also seem to be contradicting your own candidate with your "the bill wasn't passed" so it doesn't matter POV. Kerry said that he voted for tougher sanctions on Cuba but, when confronted with the fact that he didn't vote for the final version but actually voted against it, his campaign explained that he was refering to an earlier version that didn't pass. Same with the $87 billion he voted for before he voted against. He seems to do a lot of voting for things but against the final bills.

If you want to talk about his plans for the War on Terror go read his "strategy to win the war on terror" (that's what he called it, not me) that fails to mention Al Qaeda once. If you want to know about his stand on the economy go to FactCheck.org and read about how he can't afford to pay for his plans, how he will drive up the deficit even higher and how he's just wrong when he says the economy isn't creating good-paying jobs.

Donger
09-07-2004, 03:07 PM
But the bill wasn't passed. So it doesn't really matter. It's a legal firearm. Who cares if it is a weapon so dangerous that it shouldn't be in the hands of citizens?

Why don't you guys get off the Kerry bashing and stick to the issues of this campaign? Like Kerry's voting record in the Senate and how is legislative experience has prepared Kerry to develop a comprehensive plan for the WOT and the economy.

Uh oh. Someone forgot the sarcasm smiley.

trndobrd
09-07-2004, 04:01 PM
Uh oh. Someone forgot the sarcasm smiley.


Didn't forget it, every now and again I just enjoy watching RL worked up over completely sarcastic statements. Like a "real" liberal is going to claim that Kerry's voting record is an issue in this campaign. :rolleyes:

homey
09-07-2004, 04:14 PM
I can't wait 'til the Debates when Bush hammers him on this stuff...

This is good. Bush in a debate.

My impression of Bush everytime he stops in his speech, "Did I say that right? Is that what Cheney meant when he said that?"

jAZ
09-07-2004, 04:46 PM
To me, this is a pistol grip:
http://www.cmmginc.com/cmmg_images/tbl_images/Receivers%20Firearms/FN_Tactical_Shotgun.jpg

This is not:
http://www.cmmginc.com/cmmg_images/tbl_images/Receivers%20Firearms/FN_Pump.jpg

Cochise
09-07-2004, 04:50 PM
To me, this is a pistol grip

That's good information.


Exactly how does sKerry's bill delineate the difference between those two? :shrug:

Cochise
09-07-2004, 05:04 PM
sKerry retorts!

---

KERRY CAMPAIGN REBUTS

For Immediate Release
September 7, 2004


FACTS SHOW ANOTHER REPUBLICAN LIE

Charleston, WV-John Kerry West Virginia Communications Director Amy Goodwin made the following statement today in response to misleading claims made by the West Virginia Republican Party and Bush campaign.

"Let's do some straight shooting on the gun issue. John Kerry's opponents are worried because he's the first Democratic candidate to support Second Amendment gun rights and to be an avid hunter.

"The facts are clear. John Kerry opposes banning this gun and always will. John Kerry was proud to receive this union-made gun at the United Mine Workers Labor Day picnic in Racine, West Virginia.

"The Republican Party and George Bush's campaign will stop at nothing to mislead voters about John Kerry's record. We challenge Bush to engage in honest debates--West Virginians deserve to hear the truth."

END

ROFL ROFL

So, they're saying that it's false that he voted for this bill? On what basis are they calling this a 'republican lie'?

ROFL

trndobrd
09-07-2004, 05:14 PM
sKerry retorts!

---



ROFL ROFL

So, they're saying that it's false that he voted for this bill? On what basis are they calling this a 'republican lie'?

ROFL


Maybe...

...and quit questioning John Kerry's patriotism. You've almost become another Donger.

Duck Dog
09-07-2004, 05:23 PM
To me, this is a pistol grip:
http://www.cmmginc.com/cmmg_images/tbl_images/Receivers%20Firearms/FN_Tactical_Shotgun.jpg

This is not:
http://www.cmmginc.com/cmmg_images/tbl_images/Receivers%20Firearms/FN_Pump.jpg


According to sKerry they both are.

Donger
09-07-2004, 05:23 PM
Didn't forget it, every now and again I just enjoy watching RL worked up over completely sarcastic statements. Like a "real" liberal is going to claim that Kerry's voting record is an issue in this campaign. :rolleyes:

Shoot! I forgot mine!

:p

Donger
09-07-2004, 05:25 PM
This is good. Bush in a debate.

My impression of Bush everytime he stops in his speech, "Did I say that right? Is that what Cheney meant when he said that?"

Wow. It's, like, deja vu all over again....

Baby Lee
09-07-2004, 05:47 PM
So, they're saying that it's false that he voted for this bill? On what basis are they calling this a 'republican lie'?
Evidently, he neither voted for it, nor co-sponsored it.


Actually, their position is probably that, notwithstanding the vague language that got it axed in the first place, he certainly didn't mean for a fine American made gun such as this to fall under it's purview. Kind of making the opponents of the legislation's case for them post mortem.

Cochise
09-07-2004, 06:14 PM
Evidently, he neither voted for it, nor co-sponsored it.


Actually, their position is probably that, notwithstanding the vague language that got it axed in the first place, he certainly didn't mean for a fine American made gun such as this to fall under it's purview. Kind of making the opponents of the legislation's case for them post mortem.

Ah, so if this bill never got to a vote (don't know whether it did or not) he's going to claim he never voted for it. Or, like the $.50 gas tax hike that he supported, but which never got to a vote, his defense will be that he never 'sponsored or voted for' the bill, even through he expressed support and an intention to vote for it given the opportunity.

sKerry speaking legalese as usual...

jettio
09-07-2004, 06:20 PM
So is the same pack of hyenas that descended on Frankie about the Schwarnenegger speech going to rip into thread starter for extracting Drudge's nonsense out of his rectum.

Yeah that looks like a pistol grip. As Bugs Bunny might say,

"What a maroon."

Duck Dog
09-07-2004, 08:11 PM
So is the same pack of hyenas that descended on Frankie about the Schwarnenegger speech going to rip into thread starter for extracting Drudge's nonsense out of his rectum.

Yeah that looks like a pistol grip. As Bugs Bunny might say,

"What a maroon."


So we both agree. The liberal idiots that wrote the bill are wrong.

Whodathunkit?

jettio
09-07-2004, 08:37 PM
So we both agree. The liberal idiots that wrote the bill are wrong.

Whodathunkit?

You know there is plenty of true disagreements regards to politics, why is that you Bush hemorrhoid inspectors have to come up with all kinds of false nonsense.

That is a very traditional stock for a shotgun or rifle, quit acting like you have some understanding of something just because you read an intentionally hostile article.

Duck Dog
09-07-2004, 08:45 PM
You know there is plenty of true disagreements regards to politics, why is that you Bush hemorrhoid inspectors have to come up with all kinds of false nonsense.

That is a very traditional stock for a shotgun or rifle, quit acting like you have some understanding of something just because you read an intentionally hostile article.


Read the bill for yourself, numb nuts.

For the second time. (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:S.1431:)

I agree it is not a traditional pistol grip. But tell that to the gun grabbing liberal heshe's.

Loki
09-07-2004, 08:52 PM
There's something worth the ATF looking into. :)


yeah... get janet reno on the case. ;)

jettio
09-07-2004, 09:19 PM
Read the bill for yourself, numb nuts.

For the second time. (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:S.1431:)

I agree it is not a traditional pistol grip. But tell that to the gun grabbing liberal heshe's.

That is not a reasonable reading of that defintion to say that it would outlaw every traditional handled shotgun.

You have been hoodwinked.

You seem to enjoy it so much, so who am I to say that you should not always believe nonsense just because a political hack tells you to.

Duck Dog
09-07-2004, 09:26 PM
That is not a reasonable reading of that defintion to say that it would outlaw every traditional handled shotgun.

You have been hoodwinked.

You seem to enjoy it so much, so who am I to say that you should not always believe nonsense just because a political hack tells you to.

There is a reason why the millions of NRA supporters and hunters won't be voting for sKerry.

Brock
09-07-2004, 09:56 PM
If he voted for gun legislation, he is a piece of shit, with or without a pistol grip.

Duck Dog
09-07-2004, 10:01 PM
If he voted for gun legislation, he is a piece of shit, with or without a pistol grip.


Amen, bro.

PastorMikH
09-07-2004, 11:47 PM
To me, this is a pistol grip:


This is not:



Technically, and not just according to sKerry, both are pistol Grip. This is what is wrong with the liberal agenda on not just guns but a lot of things. They pass a law saying "This is what we want to stop" and hold up a picture of an assault weapon knowing (but trying to hide the fact) that the wording applies much further than the picture they hold up. By putting in the words banning weapons with pistol grips, they know that once the law is in place the MAJORITY of firearms become illegal - which is what they are really after.


It isn't just about guns. One by one the liberaly minded are trying to take away our Bill of Rights.

PastorMikH
09-07-2004, 11:48 PM
That is not a reasonable reading of that defintion to say that it would outlaw every traditional handled shotgun.

You have been hoodwinked.

You seem to enjoy it so much, so who am I to say that you should not always believe nonsense just because a political hack tells you to.



Are you really this dense or do you just enjoy a good arguement?

Cochise
09-07-2004, 11:56 PM
Are you really this dense or do you just enjoy a good arguement?

heh, well I only wish it were the latter.

Seriously though, as someone with only a pedestrian knowledge of guns, I can read the sKerry bill and understand what is meant by the bill's definition of 'pistol grip'.

"The term 'pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip.

Well, either the bill was very poorly written, or an opening was left for some activist judge to declare any kind of a weapon with 'any characteristic that can function as a grip' illegal. What other reason would there be to write such a murky definition?

PastorMikH
09-08-2004, 12:00 AM
heh, well I only wish it were the latter.

Seriously though, as someone with only a pedestrian knowledge of guns, I can read the sKerry bill and understand what is meant by the bill's definition of 'pistol grip'.

"The term 'pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip.

Well, either the bill was very poorly written, or an opening was left for some activist judge to declare any kind of a weapon with 'any characteristic that can function as a grip' illegal. What other reason would there be to write such a murky definition?



We know that's what it says, but that's not what it means. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :spock: :spock: :shake::shake:

Cochise
09-08-2004, 09:29 AM
We know that's what it says, but that's not what it means. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :spock: :spock: :shake::shake:

Their defense every time... like clockwork... vote what I say, not what I do :shake:

jettio
09-08-2004, 11:30 AM
At least folks can be unified in their stupidity.

Nobody would have read that bill and then decided that the traditionally stocked shotgun that Kerry was given would be banned.

Drudge just convinced folks to be stupid.

There is no US Attorney that would bring criminal charges for the sale of that shotgun if that bill were passed as written, based on it having a traditional stock.

There is no defense attorney who could not defend such a stupid charge and there is no judge that would interpret that statutory language to ban traditional stocks.

Pretend like you have a brain.

Phobia ought to do something about such shared stoopititude.

Sheesh.

KCTitus
09-08-2004, 11:32 AM
At least folks can be unified in their stupidity.

Nobody would have read that bill and then decided that the traditionally stocked shotgun that Kerry was given would be banned.

Drudge just convinced folks to be stupid.

There is no US Attorney that would bring criminal charges for the sale of that shotgun if that bill were passed as written, based on it having a traditional stock.

There is no defense attorney who could not defend such a stupid charge and there is no judge that would interpret that statutory language to ban traditional stocks.

Pretend like you have a brain.

Phobia ought to do something about such shared stoopititude.

Sheesh.

Trial Lawyers are chomping at the bit to sue gun mfgrs...dont kid yourself.

Why do you think that Schumer sacrified his pet legislation ('Assualt' Weapons ban)and let it die this month?

Radar Chief
09-08-2004, 11:34 AM
At least folks can be unified in their stupidity.

Nobody would have read that bill and then decided that the traditionally stocked shotgun that Kerry was given would be banned.

Drudge just convinced folks to be stupid.

There is no US Attorney that would bring criminal charges for the sale of that shotgun if that bill were passed as written, based on it having a traditional stock.

There is no defense attorney who could not defend such a stupid charge and there is no judge that would interpret that statutory language to ban traditional stocks.

Pretend like you have a brain.

Phobia ought to do something about such shared stoopititude.

Sheesh.


ROFL Ever heard of the Stella Awards? Might want to rethink what gets prosecuted and what doesn’t.

PastorMikH
09-08-2004, 11:55 AM
At least folks can be unified in their stupidity.

Nobody would have read that bill and then decided that the traditionally stocked shotgun that Kerry was given would be banned.

Drudge just convinced folks to be stupid.

There is no US Attorney that would bring criminal charges for the sale of that shotgun if that bill were passed as written, based on it having a traditional stock.

There is no defense attorney who could not defend such a stupid charge and there is no judge that would interpret that statutory language to ban traditional stocks.

Pretend like you have a brain.

Phobia ought to do something about such shared stoopititude.

Sheesh.



You really aren't just enjoying a good argument are you?


What would be stupid is for the American people to by this line of crap the liberal left is trying to feed them. Once they get the leverage with laws like this, they will manipulate them until they get exactly what they want. With assertions like you have made, I think it becomes rather clear who the stupid ones around here are.

Baby Lee
09-08-2004, 12:09 PM
At least folks can be unified in their stupidity.

Nobody would have read that bill and then decided that the traditionally stocked shotgun that Kerry was given would be banned.

Drudge just convinced folks to be stupid.

There is no US Attorney that would bring criminal charges for the sale of that shotgun if that bill were passed as written, based on it having a traditional stock.

There is no defense attorney who could not defend such a stupid charge and there is no judge that would interpret that statutory language to ban traditional stocks.

Pretend like you have a brain.

Phobia ought to do something about such shared stoopititude.

Sheesh.
By that line of reasoning, let's leave the sodomy laws on the books. I'm sure the government would never apply those to a quiet monogamous gay couple.

Pretend like you've lived in this world for one second.