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Frankie
09-08-2004, 05:47 PM
Someone just told me that "60 Minutes" will, after all show that interview with the former Texas Lt. Gov., about Bush's service. Tonight at 7 CDT. (Disclaimer: Have not heard the announcement myself.)

Donger
09-08-2004, 05:50 PM
Someone just told me that "60 Minutes" will, after all show that interview with the former Texas Lt. Gov., about Bush's service. Tonight at 7 CDT. (Disclaimer: Have not heard the announcement myself.)

Cool! I hope in the interest of fairness they have the Swift Boat Vets on next week.

bkkcoh
09-08-2004, 07:45 PM
Cool! I hope in the interest of fairness they have the Swift Boat Vets on next week.



I am not sure, but I sure don't hear the liberals bitch and moan about
the political games tha CBS plays, only the FNC. What a crock! :banghead:

RINGLEADER
09-08-2004, 08:05 PM
You mean the guy who said he was Lt Governor when he got Bush into the National Guard when he actually wasn't Lt Governor when Bush joined the National Guard? Or is it the guy who's rasied more than $500,000 for the Kerry campaign?

bkkcoh
09-08-2004, 08:07 PM
You mean the guy who said he was Lt Governor when he got Bush into the National Guard when he actually wasn't Lt Governor when Bush joined the National Guard? Or is it the guy who's rasied more than $500,000 for the Kerry campaign?


It wouldn't really make any difference, was that information brought out as a disclaimer at anytime during the interview..

RINGLEADER
09-08-2004, 08:17 PM
It wouldn't really make any difference, was that information brought out as a disclaimer at anytime during the interview..


Oh I haven't thought that the whole Bush was AWOL story would play at all unless there was new info that proved conclusively he didn't deserve to be honorably discharged. The charges that Barnes is making is suspect because his original allegation was just wrong and he has previously stated in a sworn affadavit that he didn't intercede on Bush' behalf. The charges that the Texans For Truth group is making about Bush being AWOL are weak as well because the guy featured in their commercial was talking a couple years ago about how he didn't have any idea whether Bush showed up or not.

Personally, I think the Bush was AWOL talk just makes the Dems look even more lost than they already appear. But who knows, maybe it will change the election and catapault Kerry into the White House!

jAZ
09-08-2004, 08:17 PM
It wouldn't really make any difference, was that information brought out as a disclaimer at anytime during the interview..
Yep.

Mr. Kotter
09-08-2004, 09:04 PM
5 posts three hours after this aired....this piece must have been a bombshell..... :rolleyes:

Mr. Kotter
09-08-2004, 09:11 PM
Guess THIS explains why no one really cared....


WHO IS BEN BARNES?
A Deep-Pocketed Kerry Partisan Who Can't Keep His Stories Straight
______________________________________________

Barnes Under Oath

Under Oath, Barnes Testified He Had No Contact With Bush Family Concerning National Guard. "Ben Barnes, then the speaker of the Texas House, said in 1999 that Sidney Adger, a Houston businessman and longtime friend of the Bush family whose son also won a slot in the 147th, had asked him to help get Mr. Bush into the Guard. Mr. Barnes, who acknowledged a role only after he was questioned under oath, also said that he had spoken to the head of the Texas Air National Guard on Mr. Bush's behalf, but had no contact with anyone in the Bush family. And there is no direct evidence that Mr. Bush's family pulled strings to get him into the 147th. Mr. Bush is firmly on record denying it, as is the commander of the unit, and there is no paper trail showing any influence by the Bush family." (David Barstow, "In Haze Of Guard Records, A Bit Of Clarity," The New York Times, 2/15/04)

Barnes Said Reports He Helped Bush At His Father's Urging Were "False." "Former Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes denied a magazine report Thursday that he helped George W. Bush get a place in the Texas Air National Guard at the urging of Bush's father. Bush, the Republican presidential front-runner, has repeatedly denied that he received preferential treatment in being accepted into the Guard during the Vietnam War. 'I never spoke to Congressman Bush about his son,' Barnes said Thursday. 'The story is false.'" (Renae Merle, "Barnes Denies Report That He Helped Bush Into The National Guard," The Associated Press, 7/15/99)

In Fall Of 1999, Barnes Said Bush Family Never Asked To Get President Bush Into National Guard. "Mr. Bush has consistently said he never requested special treatment, though Ben Barnes, who was speaker of the Texas House in 1968, said in 1999 that he had been asked by a Houston businessman -- not by the Bush family -- to recommend Mr. Bush for a pilot's slot, and that he had done so." (David M. Halbfinger, "Three Decades Later, Vietnam Remains A Hot Issue," The New York Times, 8/29/04)

But Now, Barnes' Story "Subject To Change"

Today, Barnes Claims He Is "Ashamed" He Got President Bush Into Texas Air National Guard. "Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is 'more ashamed at myself than I've ever been' because he helped President Bush and the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they could avoid serving in Vietnam. 'I got a young man named George W. Bush into the National Guard ... and I'm not necessarily proud of that, but I did it,' Barnes, a Democrat, said in a video clip recorded May 27 before a group of John Kerry supporters in Austin. Barnes, who was House speaker when Bush entered the Guard, later became lieutenant governor." (Bobby Ross Jr., "Former Lawmaker Says He Got Bush Into The Texas Guard," The Associated Press, 8/28/04)

Yet, According To February 2004 New York Times Article, Barnes' Story "Was Subject To Change And There Were No Documents To Support His Claims." "Local reporters could coax one former Democratic state official into admitting, off the record, that he had interceded on Mr. Bush's behalf at the request of either a prominent Dallas businessman or George H. W. Bush, who was then a member of Congress. But the official's story -- the source was later revealed to be former Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes -- was subject to change and there were no documents to support his claims." (Mimi Swartz, "In Search Of The President's Missing Years," The New York Times, 2/27/04)

Barnes Is Kerry Fundraiser And Advisor

Ben Barnes Is Kerry Campaign Vice-Chair, Raising Over $100,000 For Campaign. (Kerry For President Website, www.johnkerry.com/fec/, Accessed 9/4/04)

Barnes Considers John Kerry Close Personal Friend. "Barnes, a government consultant with offices in Austin, Chicago and Washington, said: 'I'm just an enthusiastic participant' who considers as personal friends Corzine, Daschle and Kerry, whom he got to know during summer vacations in Nantucket." (W. Gardner Selby, "Texas' Last 'Old Lion' Still On Prowl For Funds," San Antonio Express-Texas, 7/30/04)

"Texans For Kerry" Website Links To Barnes Video. (Texans For Kerry Website, www.texansforkerry.com/texansforkerry/, Accessed 9/7/04)

Barnes Is Considered "A Definite In" In Kerry Administration. "[Barnes has] known Kerry since the 1980s. 'I don't know who's going to be in and who's going to be out' of a possible Kerry administration, Barnes said. 'But John Kerry has been sympathetic to Texas in the past. ... I would expect him to listen to our problems if he's in the White House.' Barnes is a definite in, though he says he'll keep working as a lobbyist based in Austin." (Jay Root, "Texas Democrats Are Waiting In The Wings," Fort Worth Star Telegram, 7/31/04)

Barnes Owns Home Near Kerry's In Nantucket. "Now a lobbyist and consultant, Barnes has a house near Kerry's in Nantucket, Mass., and committed to Kerry's White House bid nearly three years ago on the grounds of the Nantucket Golf Club." (Jay Root, "Texas Democrats Are Waiting In The Wings," Fort Worth Star Telegram, 7/31/04)

Barnes Is Kerry "Super-Bundler" Fundraiser. "Eleven [Kerry super-bundlers] are from Texas, including Dallas plaintiff's lawyer Fred Baron and lobbyist Ben Barnes, a Lyndon Johnson protg who served as lieutenant governor and is one of the national Democrat Party's most prodigious fund-raisers. 'If someone had told me last quarter that John Kerry would have raised as much money as he's been able to, I'd have said it couldn't happen. But I'm seeing it happen,' said Mr. Barnes, whose lobby clients have included American Airlines and the chemical giant Huntsman Corp." (Wayne Slater, "Vested Interests In Kerry Lawyers, Lobbyists Top Donors List," Dallas Morning News, 7/26/04)

Opening Night Of Democratic Convention In Boston, "Kerry Adviser And Veteran Political Fund-Raiser"Barnes Hosted Party For Convention-Goers. "On the opening night of the Democratic National Convention, more than 250 well-dressed people strayed from the convention, enjoying bubbly drinks and appetizers such as tablespoon-sized shrimp salads at a party hosted by former Texas Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes. Barnes, a Kerry adviser and veteran political fund-raiser, said he scheduled his event to remind potential donors about the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee, which seeks to help Democrats recapture a majority in the U.S. Senate, where the GOP has a two-vote majority." (W. Gardner Selby, "Texas' Last 'Old Lion' Still On Prowl For Funds," San Antonio Express-Texas, 7/30/04)

In October 2003, Barnes Hosted Fundraiser For John Kerry. "Democratic presidential contender John Kerry, counting on the Texas-Massachusetts connection that played better in the 1960s than it did in the 1980s, made three fund-raising stops in Texas on Wednesday as he campaigned toward primary season. Kerry, a senator from Massachusetts, spoke to about 60 supporters at the Four Seasons Hotel here between stops in Dallas and Houston.In introducing Kerry here, former Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes likened him to Kennedy. 'He possesses the talent, the courage, the experience and the depth that will make him, as Jack Kennedy was in 1961, a president that has the determination to lead this country,' Barnes said." (Ken Herman, "Kerry Plays Up Texas' Link To His Home State," Austin American-Statesman, 10/2/03)

Barnes Is A Partisan Democrat

Daschle Called Barnes "The Fifty-First Democratic Senator." "Yet here he is in the rarefied atmosphere of big power and big-time politics -- one of the chief financial and strategic architects of the Democratic resurgence to parity (and subsequently control) in the Senate. Majority leader Tom Daschle has called him 'the fifty-first Democratic senator.'" (Paul Burka, "So What If He Never Got To Be Governor Or President?" Texas Monthly, 9/01)

Barnes Attended Clinton Coffee Intended To Raise $500,000. "Newly released White House documents show that President Clinton's political operatives expected to raise $500,000 from a White House coffee for wealthy Texans in the summer, calling into question Clinton's assertion that 'no price tag was placed' on White House events. In a July 14 memo to White House officials, campaign Chairman Peter Knight suggested adding the Texas coffee klatch to Clinton's schedule as part of an effort to raise $7.8 million in the state. Knight predicted that the event would generate $500,000 in political contributions. About 20 Texans, including former Gov. Dolph Briscoe, Land Commissioner Garry Mauro and former Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes, attended the Aug. 23 get-together with the president." (Ron Hutcheson, "Clinton's Fund-Raising Assertion Questioned," Fort Worth Star-Telegram, 2/27/97)

In 1996, Barnes Endorsed Clinton/Gore '96. (Lisa R. Davis, "CEOs And Business Leaders Endorse President Clinton," Press Release, 10/8/96)

Ben Barnes Has Donated At Least $380,750 To Democratic Candidates And Campaign Bodies Including:

John Kerry For President Inc.

Kerry Committee

Kerry-Edwards 2004 Inc. General Election Legal And Accounting Compliance Fund

A Lot Of People Supporting Tom Daschle Inc.

Bob Graham For President Inc.

Cantwell 2006

Citizens For Biden

Citizens For Sarbanes

Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee

Democratic National Committee

Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee

Evan Bayh Committee

Friends Of Byron Dorgan

Friends Of Dick Durbin Committee

Friends Of Max Cleland For The US Senate Inc.

Friends Of Schumer

Friends Of Harry Reid

Friends Of Hillary

Friends Of Patrick J Kennedy Inc.

Friends Of Senator Carl Levin

Gephardt For President Inc.

Gore 2000 Inc.

Hillary Rodham Clinton For US Senate Committee Inc.

Joe Lieberman For President Inc.

Kennedy For Senate 2006

Leahy For U.S. Senator Committee

People For Patty Murray US Senate Campaign

Stabenow For US Senate

Tony Knowles For US Senate (Political Money Line Website, www.tray.com, Accessed 9/8/04)

Barnes' Ethical Mishaps

Sharpstown Bank Scandal In 1971 Ended Barnes' Political Career. "The Sharpstown Scandal: This scandal involved quick-profit stock sales for lawmakers and state officials in 1971-72. Houston financier Frank Sharp arranged the stock loans from his Sharpstown State Bank, purportedly to grease the passage of two banking bills. Two dozen former and sitting officials were accused, and others suffered by association. House Speaker Gus Mutscher and another legislator were convicted of conspiring to accept a bribe. Gov. Preston Smith lost the governorship after his profit was disclosed. Half the Texas House was voted out of office or didn't seek re-election. And Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes, a rising political star, was caught in the housecleaning when he tried to win the governor's seat. LBJ had even predicted that Barnes would make it to the White House." (Carolyn Barta, "Texas Has Left A Lasting Mark In The World Of Politics," The Dallas Morning News, 3/4/99)

In 1998, Barnes Was Accused Of Funneling $500,000 To Former Sales Manager Of Corporation Running Texas Lottery. "The former national sales manager for Gtech Holdings Corp., which operates the Texas lottery, was sentenced to 63 months in federal prison Thursday for stealing from the company. His sentencing two years after his conviction was delayed by a controversy over information released by prosecutors linking him and former Texas Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes to a similar kickback scheme. In a sentencing memo in the Smith case, New Jersey prosecutors alleged that Mr. Barnes, then Gtech's chief Texas lobbyist, funneled $500,000 to Mr. Smith. The memo containing the allegations was posted on the Internet. Mr. Barnes denied that he had done anything wrong, and Judge Politan ordered prosecutors to apologize. In August, they acknowledged that they had disclosed secret information. Mr. Barnes said at the time that the money he gave Mr. Smith was for work not connected to the lottery. Mr. Barnes has never been charged with wrongdoing in connection with the allegation. Gtech bought out Mr. Barnes' contract for $23 million after Texas lottery commissioners questioned Gtech business practices." (George Kuempel, "Ex-Official For Gtech Sentenced," The Dallas Morning News, 10/9/98)

Investment Partnership With John Connally Went Bust In 1988 After Connally And Barnes Racked Up $200 Million In Debt. "He joined with his protg Ben Barnes, the former lieutenant governor of Texas, to embark on the business of building offices and condominiums and shopping malls, borrowing millions of dollars on the strength of his famous name, arguably the most famous in the state. At the time, Connally's real estate and energy investments appeared to be solid. Oil was selling for $33 a barrel and seemed destined to go higher. Texas was on a roll and John Connally was riding the crest of an economic surge that was making millionaires overnight. But Connally's timing was off. The decline of Texas and the rest of the energy belt began in 1982, just about the time he and Barnes began their spending and borrowing spree in earnest, taking the big chances. Files for Bankruptcy. Five years later, after a fruitless struggle for economic survival, Connally admitted that betting big had been a mistake. On July 31 of last year, he filed for bankruptcy. At the time, he and Barnes owed creditors more than $200 million." (J. Michael Kennedy, "Symbol Of Troubled Texas," Los Angeles Times, 1/22/88)

OldTownChief
09-08-2004, 09:11 PM
5 posts three hours after this aired....this piece must have been a bombshell..... :rolleyes:

When Jaz said "Yep" is when I stopped readin.

Joe Seahawk
09-08-2004, 09:21 PM
Ben Barnes is a vice Chair of the Kerry Edwards campaign..

I wonder if 60 minutes made people aware of that?

The Kerry campaign has over 180 Americans who have raised over $50,000 during the presidential primary campaign. Supporters are listed below.

VICE CHAIRS 100,000 and up

Jeremy Alters
Fernando Amandi
Ben Barnes
Mac Bernstein
Jim Brenner
Norm Brownsteinhttp://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0319b.html

FringeNC
09-08-2004, 09:33 PM
The political markets don't seem to give a damn about this latest allegation or whatever the hell it is. Bush is up 1.2 points today at tradesports.

RINGLEADER
09-08-2004, 10:20 PM
Well, from everything I've seen and read it seems to come down to the fact that Bush was a pretty solid member of the Air National Guard between mid-68 and early 72. Then he flaked out in comparison to that earlier commitment. One commander seems to think that Bush was undeserving of an honorable discharge while a different commander says that he not only was, but that it was common to give members of the National Guard a certain leeway when they've contributed well in the past (as Bush evidently did).

Does this impact Bush in any significant way? Doubt it. But maybe it will force Bush to answer yet again that he thinks Kerry served more honorably than he did or admit he was a goof in his fourth and fifth years in the National Guard. And maybe it will force Kerry to explain all the conflicting statements he's made about his service over the years (that, to date, he has yet to explain).

Anyway, let's see where the media winds take this one in the next couple days...

Ugly Duck
09-08-2004, 10:36 PM
Bush was a pretty solid member of the Air National Guard between mid-68 and early 72. Then he flaked out Dang... wutta freakin scumbag that guy is. Flakin out and weasling out as others gave their lives for their country. And now lying about it instead of just admitting the truth. Sheesh... how can you guyz support a lying weasling flaking scumball like that?

RINGLEADER
09-08-2004, 10:41 PM
Dang... wutta freakin scumbag that guy is. Flakin out and weasling out as others gave their lives for their country. And now lying about it instead of just admitting the truth. Sheesh... how can you guyz support a lying weasling flaking scumball like that?

1. He doesn't think the war on terror is "exaggerated"
2. He doesn't think the war on terror is "primarily a law enforcement issue"
3. He doesn't think the war on terror should be waged in a "more sensitive" manner

That's a few reasons why I can support him.

Besides, at least he's not afraid to answer questions about his service...unlike the war hero you're backing (who can't seem to get his stories straight).

Pitt Gorilla
09-08-2004, 10:49 PM
Why didn't Bush fight in Viet Nam (I honestly don't know; was it medical or what was the deal?)

jAZ
09-08-2004, 11:39 PM
1. He doesn't think the war on terror is "exaggerated"
2. He doesn't think the war on terror is "primarily a law enforcement issue"
3. He doesn't think the war on terror should be waged in a "more sensitive" manner

That's a few reasons why I can support him.

Besides, at least he's not afraid to answer questions about his service...unlike the war hero you're backing (who can't seem to get his stories straight).
Damn, I've never seen you pack so many lies into one post, RL.

That's a record, even for you!

:thumb:

Ugly Duck
09-09-2004, 12:12 AM
Why didn't Bush fight in Viet Nam (I honestly don't know; was it medical or what was the deal?)Aside from the serious cocaine problem, he was physically OK. His Daddy got him into the coveted Champagne Brigade of the Texas NG so he wouldn't have to actually fight. Guys like Kerry fought. Guys like Bush hid.... and now pretend that they "served honorably."

fbodyman
09-09-2004, 05:19 AM
1. He doesn't think the war on terror is "exaggerated"
2. He doesn't think the war on terror is "primarily a law enforcement issue"
3. He doesn't think the war on terror should be waged in a "more sensitive" manner

That's a few reasons why I can support him.

Besides, at least he's not afraid to answer questions about his service...unlike the war hero you're backing (who can't seem to get his stories straight).

I guess 2 out 3 ain't bad.

"Now in terms of the balance between running down intelligence and bringing people to justice obviously is -- we need to be very sensitive on that. Lackawanna, for example, was a -- there was a cell there. And it created a lot of nervousness in the community, because the FBI skillfully ferreted out intelligence that indicated that these people were in communication with terrorist networks."
George W. Bush 8/6/2004
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/rele...20040806-1.html (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/08/20040806-1.html)

I've got no problem with dealing with terrorist sensitively:

From Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
4 a : concerned with highly classified government information or involving discretionary authority over important policy matters b : calling for tact, care, or caution in treatment

jcl-kcfan2
09-09-2004, 06:38 AM
Just a question;

I may well be wrong, but when did Kerry "sign-up" for military duty?

Was it before or after his college deferrment ran out?

Mr. Kotter
09-09-2004, 06:43 AM
Damn, I've never seen you pack so many lies into one post, RL.

That's a record, even for you!

:thumb:

Justin, wake-up...."HELLO?"

Kerry HAS said each and every one of those things. Where you been? :rolleyes:

Donger
09-09-2004, 07:47 AM
Why didn't Bush fight in Viet Nam (I honestly don't know; was it medical or what was the deal?)

Bush made a statement some time ago that he didn't want to go to Vietnam. I'll see if I can find a quote.

But, since his ANG unit was never sent to Vietnam, it would have been pretty hard for him to fight there anyway.

As to Mr. Kerry, he was refused a student deferment, and enlisted in the Navy. He spent one tour off the coast on a ship (no combat). He then went back for four months on Swift Boats.

Many folks think that Kerry volunteered for Swift Boats knowing that he was going to see combat. That is wrong.

Ugly Duck
09-09-2004, 08:22 AM
Bush made a statement some time ago that he didn't want to go to Vietnam. Hence the accusation that he dodged combat as others fought and died for their country. When it was time for him to face danger, he ran and hid.

Donger
09-09-2004, 08:35 AM
Hence the accusation that he dodged combat as others fought and died for their country. When it was time for him to face danger, he ran and hid.

Has anyone suggested that he didn't dodge combat?

Iowanian
09-09-2004, 08:46 AM
I wish, from this day forward, Both sides would agree to discuss Nothing prior to the past 10 years and the next 4.

Judge them both as governor, senator, citizens, leaders, and future leaders of our nation.....I'm tired of Vietnam........It doesn't have jack shiat to do with what they'll do the next 4 years.

Ugly Duck
09-09-2004, 08:55 AM
Has anyone suggested that he didn't dodge combat?They're "suggesting" that he dodged his committment to the Champagne Brigade. Col Killian writes:

"Staudt has obviously pressured Hodges more about Bush," Killian wrote on August 18, 1973. "I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job -- Harris gave me a message today from Grp regarding Bush's OETR and Staudt is pushing to sugar coat it. Bush wasn't here during rating period and I don't have any comments from 187th in Alabama. I will not rate."

"Harris took the call from Grp today. I'll backdate but won't rate. Harris agrees."

At the time, Walter B. Staudt was commander of the Texas National Guard; Lt. Col. Bobby Hodges was one of Bush's superiors in Texas who two years earlier had rated Bush an outstanding young pilot; and Lt. Col. William D. Harris Jr. was another superior of Bush's.

A memo dated May 19, 1972, five days after Bush was supposed to have completed his physical, summarizes a telephone discussion with Bush about how he "can get out of coming to drill from now through November."

The same memo says "I advised him of our investment in him and his commitment."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/09/bush.guard.ap/index.html

FringeNC
09-09-2004, 09:06 AM
Aside from the serious cocaine problem, he was physically OK. His Daddy got him into the coveted Champagne Brigade of the Texas NG so he wouldn't have to actually fight. Guys like Kerry fought. Guys like Bush hid.... and now pretend that they "served honorably."

It's sad that you have been reduced to these types of attacks. I once considered you one of the more rational lefties.

FringeNC
09-09-2004, 09:52 AM
LOL. Documents appear to be forgeries.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/007760.php