View Full Version : ABC News: CBS Documents Reviewed Independently - May Be Forgeries

09-09-2004, 07:12 PM
Just heard it at the top of the hour on the radio. Also heard that the General that is reference in the documents supposedly retired before the date they were supposedly written. The fact that the MSM is on the air calling these documents out as possible forgeries is just DEVASTATING! A BOMBSHELL!

If they end up being forgeries it sure sounds like CBS/the Dems stepped into it this time.

Joe Seahawk
09-09-2004, 07:42 PM


Mr. Kotter
09-09-2004, 07:50 PM
The Kerry Campaign is pulling out all the stops, but sinking themselves in the process....not even checking the authenticity of documents they "hand" to CBS.... ROFL

09-09-2004, 08:03 PM



You think?

Good find...thanks for the link! :thumb:

09-09-2004, 08:16 PM
(re-posted here)

New Details from the Weekly Standard


One major problem that was obvious to these professional forensic document experts that may not have been obvious to us: the letters were spaced proportionately, not monospace. In the 70's, typewriters would give thin letters like "i" and "l" the same amount of spacing as fat letters like "W" and "M". These memos werent like that. (They also bring up the Times New Roman problem. NO typewriter in any part of the 1970's could type that font)

Third, the apostrophes were curlicues like youd see on computers or word processors, but typewriters of that era had straight lines.

The experts did concede that the th superscript was possible in brand-new typewriters in the 70's, but the other 3 major problems remain.

So can we say with absolute certainty that the documents were forged? Not yet. Xavier University's Polt, in an email, offers two possible scenarios. "Either these are later transcriptions of earlier documents (which may have been handwritten or typed on a typewriter), or they are crude and amazingly foolish forgeries. I'm a Kerry supporter myself, but I won't let that cloud my objective judgment: I'm 99% sure that these documents were not produced in the early 1970s."

"These sure look like forgeries," says William Flynn, a forensic document expert widely considered the nation's top analyst of computer-generated documents. Flynn looked at copies of the documents posted on the CBS News website (here, here, here, and here). Flynn says, "I would say it looks very likely that these documents could not have existed" in the early 1970s, when they were allegedly written.

09-09-2004, 08:41 PM
It's official! ABC News is now attacking the story!

abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/Vote2004/bush_documents_040909-2.html (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/Vote2004/bush_documents_040909-2.html)

On top of the problems I listed earlier, ABC News is reporting a new one: The verticle spacing of the memos was measured at 13 point, which was NOT available in any 1970's typewriters, untill the advent of computers.

Joe Seahawk
09-09-2004, 09:17 PM

You think?

Good find...thanks for the link! :thumb:

Hey, I beat powerline.. :)


09-09-2004, 09:23 PM
The questions and speculation is beginning to fly now.

From ABC News:

The White House is declining to comment on the veracity of the documents. Many Democrats are worried that if they are found to be forgeries, it will be a setback for Sen. John Kerry's campaign to defeat Bush in November.

Joe Seahawk
09-09-2004, 10:08 PM
More from powerline (www.powerlineblog.com)

Tomorrow morning, dinosaur media across the country will be headlining the 60 Minutes "scoop" as a blow to the Bush campaign. Before their newspapers are even printed, not only is the story obsolete, but CBS is in full retreat. As Stephen Hayes reported earlier today, Power Line "led the charge" against the 60 Minutes hoax today. But the credit really goes to the incredible power of the internet. We knew nothing; all of our information came from our readers. Many thousands of smart, well-informed people who only a few years ago would have had no recourse but perhaps to write a letter to their local newspaper, now can communicate and share their expertise in real time, through sites like this one. The power of the medium is incredible, as we've seen over the last fourteen hours.

Thanks to our readers; we were able to publish only a small fraction of the information we got on the fake documents. But it was more than enough.

UPDATE: ABC News breaks the MSM boycott:

Marjorie Connell widow of the late Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, the reported author of memos suggesting that Bush did not meet the standards for the Texas Air National Guard questioned whether the documents were real.

"The wording in these documents is very suspect to me," she told ABC News Radio in an exclusive phone interview from her Texas home. She added that she "just can't believe these are his words."

First reported by CBS's 60 Minutes, the memos allegedly were found in Killian's personal files. But his family members say they doubt he ever made such documents, let alone kept them.

Connell said Killian did not type, and though he did take notes, they were usually on scraps of paper. "He was a person who did not take copious notes," she said. "He carried everything in his mind."

Killian's son, Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father, also told ABC News Radio that he doubts his father wrote the documents. "It was not the nature of my father to keep private files like this, nor would it have been in his own interest to do so," he said.

"We don't know where the documents come from," he said, adding, "They didn't come from any family member."

Connell said her late husband would be "turning over in his grave to know that a document such as this would be used against a fellow guardsman," and she is "sick" and "angry" that his name is "being battled back and forth on television."

Her late husband was a fan of the young Bush, said Connell, who remarried after her husband died in 1984. "I know for a fact that this young man was an excellent aviator, an excellent person to be in the Guard, and he was very happy to have him become a member of the 111th."

It's the end of the line, I think, for Dan Rather and 60 Minutes.

09-10-2004, 07:16 AM
Somebody high up at CBS needs to resign.

They ask for that from our govt officials when things are faked or illegal actions occur.