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View Full Version : DNC/Kerry Campaign Had CBS Documents 6 Weeks Ago (Get Ready For the Blowback)


RINGLEADER
09-10-2004, 12:09 AM
Can you spell D-E-S-P-E-R-A-T-E?


More than six weeks ago, an opposition research staffer for the Democratic National Committee received documents purportedly written by President George W. Bush's Texas Air National Guard squadron commander, the late Col. Jerry Killian.

The oppo researcher claimed the source was "a retired military officer." According to a DNC staffer, the documents were seen by both senior staff members at the DNC, as well as the Kerry campaign.

"More than a couple people heard about the papers," says the DNC staffer. "I've heard that they ended up with the Kerry campaign, for them to decide to how to proceed, and presumably they were handed over to 60 Minutes, which used them the other night. But I know this much. When there was discussion here, there were doubts raised about their authenticity."

The concerns arose from the sourcing. "It wasn't clear that our source for the documents would have had access to them. Our person couldn't confirm from what file, from what original source they came from."

The documents that CBS News used were not documents from any of Bush's personnel files from his time in the National Guard. Rather, CBS News stated that they were documents uncovered in the personnel files of Killian. That would explain why the White House or the Pentagon had never before released or even seen them.

According to a Kerry campaign source, there was little gossip about the supposedly hot documents inside the office of the campaign on McPherson Square. "Those documents were not something anyone was talking about or trying to generate buzz on," says the staffer. "It wasn't like there were small groups of people talking about this as a bombshell. I think people here weren't sure what to make of it, because provenance of these documents was uncertain."

A CBS producer, who initially tipped off The Prowler about the 60 Minutes story, says that despite seeking professional assurances that the documents were legitimate, there was uncertainty even among the group of producers and researchers working on the story.

<B>"The problem was we had one set of documents from Bush's file that had Killian calling Bush 'an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot.' And someone who Killian said 'performed in an outstanding manner.' Then you have these new documents and the tone and content are so different."</B>

The CBS producer said that some alarms bells went off last week when the signatures and initials of Killian on the documents in hand did not match up with other documents available on the public record, but producers chose to move ahead with the story. "This was too hot not to push. If there were doubts, those people didn't show it," says the producer, who works on a rival CBS News program.

<B>Now, the producer says, there is growing concern inside the building on 57th Street that they may have been suckered by the Kerry campaign. "There is a school of thought here that the Kerry people dumped this in our laps, figuring we'd do the heavy lifting on the story. That maybe they had doubts about these documents but hoped we'd get more information," says the producer. "If that's the case, then we're bigger fools than we already appear to be judging by all the chatter about how these documents could be forgeries." </B>

ABC News' political unit held a conference call at 7:00 p.m. Thursday evening to discuss the memo and its potential ramifications should the documents turn out to be a forgery. That meeting took place around the time that the deceased Killian's son made public statements questioning the documents' authenticity.

According to one ABC News employee, some reporters believe that the Kerry campaign as well as the DNC were parties in duping CBS, but a smaller segment believe that both the DNC and the Kerry campaign were duped by Karl Rove, who would have engineered the flap to embarrass the opposition.

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=7096

RINGLEADER
09-10-2004, 12:10 AM
BTW, What's worse...Blowback or Backfiring?

Joe Seahawk
09-10-2004, 12:16 AM
depends, which one will snag ya a purple heart..

Michael Michigan
09-10-2004, 12:16 AM
Now, the producer says, there is growing concern inside the building on 57th Street that they may have been suckered by the Kerry campaign.

The do-dah man?

;)

alnorth
09-10-2004, 12:17 AM
Oh my God

I didnt expect this to come out so blatantly, I figured it would be inferred at worst.

I... I simply dont know where the hell the ceiling is on this story. It could end up being unfair to Kerry personally, but this could be very, very, very bad.

Michael Michigan
09-10-2004, 12:18 AM
On a serious note RL...you really need your own blog.

:toast:

RINGLEADER
09-10-2004, 12:42 AM
On a serious note RL...you really need your own blog.

:toast:


I was going to start one...but I'm not going to have any time to do it properly in a few weeks when my new project gets up and going...if you can't devote your life to it there's not much reason to do it...

Michael Michigan
09-10-2004, 12:49 AM
I was going to start one...but I'm not going to have any time to do it properly in a few weeks when my new project gets up and going...if you can't devote your life to it there's not much reason to do it...



You're still going to post here so I can steal your stuff, though--right?

;)

2bikemike
09-10-2004, 12:54 AM
So is this anything like Niger Yellowcake? ROFL Pot meet Kettle.

RINGLEADER
09-10-2004, 01:02 AM
You're still going to post here so I can steal your stuff, though--right?

;)


Do you have a blog? I'd like to visit it...

Michael Michigan
09-10-2004, 01:06 AM
Do you have a blog? I'd like to visit it...

Sure--I thought you knew...

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/page2/index.html

And here's the traditional stuff...

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/search.cgi/search.cgi?cat=10,11&

RINGLEADER
09-10-2004, 01:15 AM
Sure--I thought you knew...

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/page2/index.html

And here's the traditional stuff...

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/search.cgi/search.cgi?cat=10,11&


I didn't know that was you. Great spot! :thumb:

Michael Michigan
09-10-2004, 01:34 AM
I didn't know that was you. Great spot! :thumb:

Thanks. I really thought you knew.

Toss me an e-mail sometime.

Saggysack
09-10-2004, 03:44 AM
Ah look, it's one happy little love fest. How sweet. ROFL

Cochise
09-10-2004, 07:38 AM
The only thing that conerns me here is that even if these documents are debunked, there will be more.

If you think about it, if CBS is willing to accept sources and run a story with little to no verification, and these really are forgeries, then it's only a matter of time until the next, better forgery. The Bush opponents, having given up on their guy's ability to win on his own, are now reduced to forging documents in an effort to defeat him and I highly doubt they will let this minor setback discourage them.

Since all the flaws in this one have been carefully pointed out, someone could just make a better one, where the superscripts aren't included, where the text is oriented better on the page, where the signature matches the person signing it, etc. Since so many are critiquing the work of whoever made this one, if they really want to get a forged document out there it will just take a bit of refining.

Sucks, but what can you do about it?

NewChief
09-10-2004, 07:41 AM
Sucks, but what can you do about it?

I disagree. I think that if they are found to be forgeries, it will increase skepticism of any documents to the point that even if legitimate documents come out people will just say, "Big deal. They're probably just forgeries."

Actually, it will probably fall along partisan lines. People will believe whatever best suits their prior beliefs.

Radar Chief
09-10-2004, 08:19 AM
I disagree. I think that if they are found to be forgeries, it will increase skepticism of any documents to the point that even if legitimate documents come out people will just say, "Big deal. They're probably just forgeries."

Actually, it will probably fall along partisan lines. People will believe whatever best suits their prior beliefs.

Yup, but then again thatís not exactly a new phenomenon.

Chief Henry
09-10-2004, 09:03 AM
SHould these documents end up being forged...
You can stick a fork in all the Desperate Dems (DD's)

Donger
09-10-2004, 09:22 AM
SHould these documents end up being forged...
You can stick a fork in all the Desperate Dems (DD's)

If the documents are forged (and it sure looks like they are) AND the Kerry campaign once had their hands on them...

Radar Chief
09-10-2004, 09:23 AM
If the documents are forged (and it sure looks like they are) AND the Kerry campaign once had their hands on them...

The majority of Libs will try to claim RNC shenanigans.
I believe itís actually already started.

patteeu
09-10-2004, 10:03 AM
On a serious note RL...you really need your own blog.

:toast:

I second that. It's time for him to quit his day job. Blogging is his calling.

P.S. Ringleader is my hero. :)

RINGLEADER
09-10-2004, 10:25 AM
For the documents not to be forgeries you'd have to adequately address:

a) How the typewriter does superscript
b) How the typewriter does proportional spacing
c) How the typewriter does proportional centering
d) How the typewriter had an extra apostrophe key
e) How the typewriter does Times New Roman fonts
f) Why they were produced on the wrong-sized paper
g) Why they include comments inconsistent with other authentic papers from Killian
h) Why they include dates (like the last date for Bush's physical) that are inconsistent with Air Force regulations of the time
i) Why they include terms (like title) that are inconsistent with Air Force regulations of the time

You also have to ask yourself how much of a coincidence it is that the Kerry campaign begins a major focus on Bush's National Guard service using the documents, a new 527 group begins an ad campaign with a major focus on Bush's National Guard service (using a man who previously said he's not a "smoking gun" that proves what he now is saying on TV), and stories that indicate that the Kerry campaign had the documents six weeks ago (documents from the private files of a man dead for 20 years who his own relatives claim he didn't keep).

I think the chances that they're forgeries is pretty close to 100%. You can pull apart this piece or that piece of the argument, but when taken in their totality it is next to impossible to see how some guy who didn't type (according to his wife) had an advanced typewriter that could do all the things that are done with this document.

The real truth here is that even if CBS admit they were duped and says they were given the documents by the Kerry campaign the hard left will still claim that there is truth in what they say (if not refuse such revelations outright). The flip-side of that truth is that the Bush is AWOL story is DOA and the more the Dems try to make it an issue the more foolish they appear.

Michael Michigan
09-10-2004, 10:28 AM
The only thing that conerns me here is that even if these documents are debunked, there will be more.

If you think about it, if CBS is willing to accept sources and run a story with little to no verification, and these really are forgeries, then it's only a matter of time until the next, better forgery. The Bush opponents, having given up on their guy's ability to win on his own, are now reduced to forging documents in an effort to defeat him and I highly doubt they will let this minor setback discourage them.

Since all the flaws in this one have been carefully pointed out, someone could just make a better one, where the superscripts aren't included, where the text is oriented better on the page, where the signature matches the person signing it, etc. Since so many are critiquing the work of whoever made this one, if they really want to get a forged document out there it will just take a bit of refining.

Sucks, but what can you do about it?

Two words.

Credibility Gap.

King_Chief_Fan
09-10-2004, 10:34 AM
CBS and the Kerry campaign are bigger idiots than I thought.

keep digging the hole.....pretty soon, Kerry buried.

FringeNC
09-10-2004, 10:49 AM
There is just no way CBS had this thing checked out by experts. No way. And that fact has some disturbing implications.

RINGLEADER
09-10-2004, 11:12 AM
There is just no way CBS had this thing checked out by experts. No way. And that fact has some disturbing implications.

That is disturbing. I had heard late last week that they were going to can the whole interview but the happy compromise was to put it on their mid-week show instead of Sunday. The very fact that these supposedly "secret" memos (which now look like they were fed to CBS by Kerry's people) are contradicted by official documents should have caused more of a pause than they did. The fact that Barnes isn't just a supporter of Kerry's but has raised a half million beans on his behalf should have caused additional pause.

I hope this blows up in Dan "I think Clinton is a Truthful Man" Rather's face as much as I hope it continues to hurt the Kerry campaign.

OldTownChief
09-10-2004, 11:38 AM
I hope this blows up in Dan "I think Clinton is a Truthful Man" Rather's face as much as I hope it continues to hurt the Kerry campaign.

Me too, he'll be the biggest joke since Heraldo's debacle.

patteeu
09-10-2004, 12:14 PM
Good God. First Kerry wants us all to re-live the nation-dividing experience of the Vietnam war. Now he wants us to have a second taste of Watergate. The Kerry campaign is a cancer. Thank goodness remission is scheduled for November 2.

alnorth
09-10-2004, 01:02 PM
Actually, CBS did have 4 experts review the memos.... HANDWRITING EXPERTS!

*smacks head* :shake:

StcChief
09-10-2004, 01:18 PM
Then they assumed no one would question the story.
Not a good gamble.

this could be very bad.

Someone at CBS needs to be fired.

Calcountry
09-10-2004, 02:47 PM
Notice how Jaz hasn't posted in this thread. :shrug:

Cochise
09-10-2004, 02:48 PM
Actually, CBS did have 4 experts review the memos.... HANDWRITING EXPERTS!

*smacks head* :shake:

Well of course you bring in handwriting experts to examine the authenticity of typewritten documents!

:doh!: