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the Talking Can
09-12-2004, 03:50 PM
link (http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/09/12/iraq.main/index.html)

Officials: 31 killed in widespread Iraqi fighting

Sunday, September 12, 2004 Posted: 3:55 PM EDT (1955 GMT)


BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Clashes across Iraq, including a suicide bombing at the Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad, left at least 31 people dead Sunday and scores of others wounded, according to Iraqi and U.S. military officials.

A car bomber died early Sunday when his vehicle detonated in front of the prison, according to Lt. Col. Barry Johnson, a spokesman for detainee operations.

U.S. forces fired at the vehicle after it attempted to crash the compound's gate and it exploded, Johnson said.

At the same time, the troops received small-arms fire. Additional explosives were found in the vehicle after the explosion, Johnson said.

The driver of the vehicle was the only casualty, Johnson said.

Also, during a U.S. military sweep of the neighborhood surrounding the prison, five civilians were wounded, according to Iraqi police Col. Mohammad of the Abu Ghraib police station.

In another attack Sunday, three Polish soldiers were killed and three others were wounded near al-Mashru, about 19 miles northeast of al-Hilla, in south-central Iraq, according to a spokesman for the multinational forces.

The soldiers were part of a convoy carrying an explosives ordnance disposal team, the spokesman said.

The wounded soldiers were taken to a military hospital in Karbala, where they were listed in stable condition.
Ramadi fighting

In Ramadi, west of Baghdad, battles have flared sporadically throughout the day, an independent journalist there told CNN.

There were two differing casualty reports from the mostly Sunni Muslim city on Sunday.

According to Iraq's Ministry of Health, clashes between U.S. Marines and insurgent fighters left at least three Iraqis dead and another 26 wounded.

But the director of the al-Ramadi hospital said his facility received 10 dead and 40 wounded. The U.S. military said it was checking the reports.

Other fighting Sunday -- about 20 miles northeast of al-Hilla -- left three Iraqi National Guard troops dead, three others wounded and another missing, according to a multinational forces statement. The soldiers were hit by an exploding car bomb and a detonated roadside bomb, the statement said.

In western Baghdad, a car bomb targeted a vehicle carrying several police officers, killing two of them and wounding four others, according to an Iraqi police officer.

Killed in the attack were Col. Alaa Adeen Bashir, director of a police station in western Baghdad, and 1st Lt. Maher Mohammed Abbass, the police officer said.

Also in western Baghdad Sunday, a police patrol commander was killed and two other police officers were wounded in a drive-by shooting, according to Ministry of Interior spokesman Col. Adnan Abdul Rahman.

In a separate incident, a suicide car bomber detonated his vehicle near a Green Zone checkpoint early Sunday in central Baghdad, killing only the driver, according to U.S. Army Maj. Phil Smith of the 1st Cavalry Division. There were no other casualties, Smith said.

In the southern part of the capital, four Iraqis were killed early Sunday when two rockets landed on two separate houses, according to an Iraqi police officer from al-Dura station.

The dead include a 7-year-old child, an Iraqi police officer and a member of Iraq's Facility Protection Services, the officer said.
Intense firefight

On Baghdad's Haifa Street, a two-and-a-half-hour firefight between insurgents and Iraqi security forces -- backed by U.S. military -- left 13 people dead and 55 others wounded, according to Ministry of Health officials.

Residents said most of the casualties in the gunfight occurred after a crowd gathered around a burning U.S. military vehicle and was fired on by a helicopter. The U.S. military said the crowd was made up of insurgents and looters.

Two journalists were killed in the attack, according to their employers. An Iraqi cameraman working for Reuters was wounded when a U.S. helicopter fired on the crowd, a Reuters spokesperson said.

The airstrike also killed a producer for the Arabic-language television network Al-Arabiya, according to Nihad Ya'qub, an executive director with the network.

Mazin al-Tumaidi, a Palestinian, was near the U.S. tank as Iraqis chanted around the burning vehicle, Ya'qub said. A U.S. helicopter fired a rocket at the crowd, killing al-Tumaidi, Ya'qub said.

According to the U.S. military version of the incident, a U.S. Bradley fighting vehicle en route to help a patrol on Haifa Street was hit by a car bomb.

Four U.S. soldiers were wounded in the attack, according to U.S. military spokesman Maj. Smith. As the Bradley crew was being evacuated, the U.S. forces came under small-arms fire and attack from grenades and Molotov cocktails, Smith said.

Smith said a U.S. helicopter was firing on the vehicle, to destroy it and prevent it from falling into insurgents' hands.

The Bradley was surrounded by looters trying to remove weapons and other items from it, Smith said. They were "not innocent civilians," he added.

Several witnesses disputed the U.S. military's account, saying the crowd gathered around the burning vehicle, chanting "God is great," throwing stones at the vehicle and hitting it with metal pipes, but were not firing toward the U.S. forces or looting the vehicle.
Other developments:

# A purported statement by a previously unknown Iraqi group threatened on Sunday that two Italian hostages will be killed unless Italy begins withdrawing its forces from Iraq. (Full story)

# Four Iraqis were killed Saturday in separate incidents and the wife and three children of an Iraqi National Guard officer were kidnapped. (Full story)

# A U.S. Army military intelligence soldier was sentenced Saturday after pleading guilty to charges connected to his role in the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal. Army Spec. Armin Cruz was the first military intelligence soldier charged in the case. He was sentenced to eight months confinement, demoted in rank and given a bad conduct discharge. (Full story)

# Iraqi interim President Ghazi al-Yawar is visiting Italy, the latest stop in his European trip, to meet with Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and other Italian officials. The Italian government provides one of the larger contingents in the U.S.-led multinational force in Iraq: about 2,700 troops

memyselfI
09-12-2004, 05:14 PM
Is there a 'hands in ears, la,la,la,la, not listening so it ain't happening' smilie? If so, insert here __________.




















PS. Normal programing will resume tomorrow. I'm in a much needed self imposed exile from bad news for the day. Tomorrow I will address how much this effort is collapsing and how the American people are pretty much clueless. But for now...I'll join the rest of the 'ignorance is bliss' crowd. ;)

memyselfI
09-13-2004, 09:59 AM
I see DUHbya's poll numbers have risen regarding the war in Iraq and it's handling. But if the American people truly knew that US forces are LOSING ground and more of the country by the day one wonders if those numbers would remain so high...

this article makes that whole diversion by the Swift Boners make sense. :hmmm:

World - OneWorld.net
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/oneworld/20040910/wl_oneworld/6573937651094806675&e=5


Rebels Begin to Control More Areas in Iraq

Fri Sep 10, 4:58 AM ET Add World - OneWorld.net to My Yahoo!


Peyman Pejman , Inter Press Service (IPS)

BAGHDAD, Sep 10 (IPS) - Armed groups and foreign terrorists have established new camps in central Iraq (news - web sites) as government forces attack rebels in the north and south, officials say.

The reports follow an admission by U.S. central command chief Gen. John Abizaid that there are more areas in Iraq under rebel control today than there were last year.

The revelations could be damning for the government of U.S. appointed interim prime minister Iyad Allawi who has promised to uproot armed opposition to the nascent government.


New camps have been reported in the 'Sunni triangle' zone that includes Falluja and Ramadi. Iraqi and western sources say the camps have been established recently and fortified in the past couple of months.


Reports are coming in of new armed groups organising themselves in parts of the country earlier thought safe, as fighting escalates in other parts of Iraq. Over the past few days fighting has erupted again in many parts of the country including Falluja and Mosul in the north and Sadr City in Baghdad.


U.S. forces have said they targeted houses used by followers of Abu Musab Zarqawi, the Jordanian-Palestinian believed to the al-Qaeda leader in Iraq.


U.S. warplanes have also attacked Tal Afar near Mosul in the north in an attempt to smash arms smuggling. Local medical sources say at least 27 people were killed and 70 wounded. U.S. military officials said they believed 57 insurgents had died.


U.S. troops also entered the central city Samarra Thursday for the first time in weeks in an attempt to establish local government and force militiamen out.


"They are mostly Baathist groups, but there are some foreign terrorists as well," Ahmed Chalabi, leader of the Iraqi National Congress says, referring to the Baath Party that ruled Iraq under Saddam Hussein (news - web sites). "They have sophisticated military organisation, are well trained, well armed, and have lots of money."


His assertion is backed by other Iraqi politicians with close connections among the people.


"There are terrorist camps. They have stored lots of arms and ammunition. They have equipment for forging documents and passports," says Ismail Zayer, editor-in-chief of the independent daily Sabah al-Jedid. "They have positioned themselves to have contacts with people in places like Ramadi and Falluja, as well as with people in the south."


The groups are said to have established some military camps in Mahmoudiye-Latifiye-Yousefiye along the Baghdad-Najaf highway. Many foreign journalists and aid workers have been kidnapped in this area. Convoys of Iraqi officials have been attacked.


The number of armed militiamen is not known. Most Iraqi sources speak of hundreds; some say it could be close to a thousand.


"Information about this is very sketchy," says a senior western diplomat in Baghdad. "It is just recently that this new phenomenon has come to the attention of people. But, by and large from what little we know these are the people who managed to escape from other areas of the country and found a new haven. I don't believe this is a new infusion of foreign fighters in the country."


Chalabi, Zayer, and others say they have passed on their information to the government, which has promised to take action.


Government officials say they have been unable so far to confirm the existence of newly-established terrorist camps. But Chalabi says the operations show "that this issue is not a small problem because security forces have had many casualties." Neither he nor government officials offer casualty figures.


"The government is in a tight position," the western diplomat said. "On one hand it knows that it needs to act on the situation even as it continues to develop intelligence about what exactly it is dealing with. On the other, it simply does not have the resources or the political will to go carpet-bombing the area, so to speak."

Duck Dog
09-13-2004, 10:22 AM
Do you think you two can bring yourselves to blame the terrorists that are blowing shit up instead of US troops?


I doubt it.

memyselfI
09-13-2004, 10:27 AM
Do you think you two can bring yourselves to blame the terrorists that are blowing shit up instead of US troops?


I doubt it.

Terrorists? I think it's called insurgency. Like the one the US supported many times in Central America. :hmmm:

Cochise
09-13-2004, 10:30 AM
BIG party at meme's

mlyonsd
09-13-2004, 10:43 AM
Tomorrow I will address how much this effort is collapsing and how the American people are pretty much clueless. But for now...I'll join the rest of the 'ignorance is bliss' crowd. ;)

I suspect when Bush wins the election you're going to call foul because the American people are ignorant and it should be up to you to declare the winner because you are so much more intelligent then the rest of us.

memyselfI
09-13-2004, 10:46 AM
I suspect when Bush wins the election you're going to call foul because the American people are ignorant and it should be up to you to declare the winner because you are so much more intelligent then the rest of us.

I dunno. More people voted against him than for him last time...and that was before he got us into a quagmire war.

Duck Dog
09-13-2004, 10:51 AM
Terrorists? I think it's called insurgency. Like the one the US supported many times in Central America. :hmmm:

No, they are called terrorists. At least that's what they are called by Americans. You expatriot's can call them what you want. They are terrorists to the rest of us.

mlyonsd
09-13-2004, 10:51 AM
I dunno. More people voted against him than for him last time...and that was before he got us into a quagmire war.

ROFL I'm glad our founding fathers didn't have your "Can't do" attitude.

KCWolfman
09-13-2004, 11:13 AM
In a separate incident, a suicide car bomber detonated his vehicle near a Green Zone checkpoint early Sunday in central Baghdad, killing only the driver, according to U.S. Army Maj. Phil Smith of the 1st Cavalry Division. There were no other casualties, Smith said.

I see the sun shines even on CNN's ass every once in awhile. That is a true "suicide" bomber when all he kills is himself.

Good luck to more of those idiots in having the same success.

KCWolfman
09-13-2004, 11:14 AM
Terrorists? I think it's called insurgency. Like the one the US supported many times in Central America. :hmmm:
Who are supporting the insurgents, a nation or a group of terrorists?

Your logic is atrocious.

Duck Dog
09-13-2004, 11:19 AM
Who are supporting the insurgents, a nation or a group of terrorists?

Your logic is atrocious.


Their 'Persian' relatives.

memyselfI
09-13-2004, 01:19 PM
Who are supporting the insurgents, a nation or a group of terrorists?

Your logic is atrocious.

Guess the Secretary of State's logic is 'atrocious' as well... ROFL ROFL ROFL

SECRETARY POWELL: We have had difficulty with some of the European publics over our policy in Iraq. Many of their governments supported us, in fact, a large number of European governments supported us, but the work is difficult and people are waiting to see whether or not we're going to be successful. We are going to be successful. A terrible regime has been removed. We are dealing with this insurgency. It's a difficult insurgency to deal with, but in due course, just as we are getting ready to see in Afghanistan, there will be elections in Iraq. Iraq will be responsible for its own destiny and I think when that happens, when we do get further into the reconstruction of Iraq, those attitudes will start to change.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/WO0409/S00160.htm
Press Release: US State Department
Interview on NBC's Meet the Press with Tim Russert
Secretary Colin L. Powell
Washington, DC
September 12, 2004
(10:30 a.m. EDT)

memyselfI
09-13-2004, 01:21 PM
No, they are called terrorists. At least that's what they are called by Americans. You expatriot's can call them what you want. They are terrorists to the rest of us.

We are dealing with this insurgency. It's a difficult insurgency to deal with,
- Secretary of State, Colin Powell...

aka ex-patriot terrorist sympathizer ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Matt Helm
09-13-2004, 01:21 PM
Guess the Secretary of State's logic is 'atrocious' as well...

SECRETARY POWELL: We are going to be successful. A terrible regime has been removed. We are dealing with meme's family. It's a difficult family to deal with, but in due course, just as we are getting ready to see, those attitudes will start to change.

Interview on NBC's Meet the Press with Tim Russert
Secretary Colin L. Powell
Washington, DC
September 12, 2004
(10:30 a.m. EDT)

So true, so true!!!

memyselfI
09-13-2004, 01:23 PM
So true, so true!!!

Ah, you finally say something semi-coherent and it's misquoting someone else. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Matt Helm
09-13-2004, 01:28 PM
Ah, you finally say something semi-coherent and it's misquoting someone else. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Not really a misquote, just correcting the original edited post to fit the situation.

KCWolfman
09-13-2004, 01:58 PM
Guess the Secretary of State's logic is 'atrocious' as well... ROFL ROFL ROFL

SECRETARY POWELL: We have had difficulty with some of the European publics over our policy in Iraq. Many of their governments supported us, in fact, a large number of European governments supported us, but the work is difficult and people are waiting to see whether or not we're going to be successful. We are going to be successful. A terrible regime has been removed. We are dealing with this insurgency. It's a difficult insurgency to deal with but in due course, just as we are getting ready to see in Afghanistan, there will be elections in Iraq. Iraq will be responsible for its own destiny and I think when that happens, when we do get further into the reconstruction of Iraq, those attitudes will start to change.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/WO0409/S00160.htm
Press Release: US State Department
Interview on NBC's Meet the Press with Tim Russert
Secretary Colin L. Powell
Washington, DC
September 12, 2004
(10:30 a.m. EDT)

What is with your reading comprehension skills today?

Again, who supports these insurgents? You are comparing the terrorist lead insurgents of Iraq to American supported insurgents in El Salvador. Because you are making the assumption that somehow "insurgency" cannot be linked to terrorists simply because America is not a terrorist nation, you have failed the most basic and simple logic equation made (A does not always equal C, because B can be a subset of A and B sometimes equals C).

A terrorist supported insurgent is still a terrorist.

KCWolfman
09-13-2004, 01:59 PM
We are dealing with this insurgency. It's a difficult insurgency to deal with,
- Secretary of State, Colin Powell...

aka ex-patriot terrorist sympathizer ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL
Who is supporting these insurgents?

No matter how large you type, you are still applying erroneous logic.

HC_Chief
09-13-2004, 02:05 PM
lol, IQ qeustions popping up...

If A sometimes equals B and B sometimes equals C, does A always equal C?
:D

memyselfI
09-13-2004, 02:05 PM
Who is supporting these insurgents?

No matter how large you type, you are still applying erroneous logic.

Well, it appears some of the Iraqi people not to mention others from around the Middle East.

The point was being made that when the US was trying to undermine goverments in Central America they also relied on 'insurgencies.' Now that they are on the other end of the spectrum these folks are 'terrorists'? :hmmm:

KCWolfman
09-13-2004, 02:10 PM
Well, it appears some of the Iraqi people not to mention others from around the Middle East.

The point was being made that when the US was trying to undermine goverments in Central America they also relied on 'insurgencies.' Now that they are on the other end of the spectrum these folks are 'terrorists'? :hmmm:
"others from around the Middle East"? Is that your way of saying "terrorists"?


Again, and you may type as large as you like, just try and answer a question with a straight answer for a change. The US Government supported the insurgents in Central and South America, making them US led insurgents. Who is supporting the insurgents in Iraq? Please don't play stupid and post "not to mention others from around the Middle East" as a lame answer. We both know the real answer, you just don't like it.

memyselfI
09-13-2004, 03:59 PM
"others from around the Middle East"? Is that your way of saying "terrorists"?


Again, and you may type as large as you like, just try and answer a question with a straight answer for a change. The US Government supported the insurgents in Central and South America, making them US led insurgents. Who is supporting the insurgents in Iraq? Please don't play stupid and post "not to mention others from around the Middle East" as a lame answer. We both know the real answer, you just don't like it.

I believe the United States is maintaining that this insurgency is being supported in some means by Iran, Syria, Jordon, etc because they have found INSTANCES of people of that origin fighting the US. To date, they've not produced evidence of widespread support from a foreign government of the insurgents.

FTR, there are AT LEAST two groups the US is fighting right now. One are Iraqi nationals who are the insurgents and are fighting for their homeland (as is their right) and do not want the US in their country. The other is AQ or any other terrorist groups that have INFILTRATED the country since SH's removal and are seizing the opportunity to kill US soldiers....

THEY ARE NOT ONE IN THE SAME. The WH and SD have said as much.

Iowanian
09-13-2004, 07:00 PM
We'd better ramp up production of our Stockpiles of High explosive ordinence............

Syria doesn't have any problems that turning Israel loose doesn't solve............Iran is begging to host the First International MOAB dropping competition...........


Cluster bomb every jackass parade in Iraq........

KCWolfman
09-13-2004, 07:35 PM
I believe the United States is maintaining that this insurgency is being supported in some means by Iran, Syria, Jordon, etc because they have found INSTANCES of people of that origin fighting the US. To date, they've not produced evidence of widespread support from a foreign government of the insurgents.

FTR, there are AT LEAST two groups the US is fighting right now. One are Iraqi nationals who are the insurgents and are fighting for their homeland (as is their right) and do not want the US in their country. The other is AQ or any other terrorist groups that have INFILTRATED the country since SH's removal and are seizing the opportunity to kill US soldiers....

THEY ARE NOT ONE IN THE SAME. The WH and SD have said as much.
So, you state a foreign nation has no seen plan, yet Al Qaeda, who are KNOW TERRORISTS, are leading a part of the insurgency.

Which leds me to believe they are TERRORIST led insurgents, thus they are terrorists.

Thanks for your logic

Duck Dog
09-13-2004, 10:04 PM
Well, it appears some of the Iraqi people not to mention others from around the Middle East.

The point was being made that when the US was trying to undermine goverments in Central America they also relied on 'insurgencies.' Now that they are on the other end of the spectrum these folks are 'terrorists'? :hmmm:


Which Central American insurgencies flew planes into buildings?

memyselfI
09-14-2004, 06:54 AM
Which Central American insurgencies flew planes into buildings?

Which Iraqi insurgent flew a plane into buildings? :hmmm:

Matt Helm
09-14-2004, 06:58 AM
I believe the United States is maintaining that this insurgency is being supported in some means by Iran, Syria, Jordon, etc because they have found INSTANCES of people of that origin fighting the US. To date, they've not produced evidence of widespread support from a foreign government of the insurgents.

FTR, there are AT LEAST two groups the US is fighting right now. One are Iraqi nationals who are the insurgents and are fighting for their homeland (as is their right) and do not want the US in their country. The other is AQ or any other terrorist groups that have INFILTRATED the country since SH's removal and are seizing the opportunity to kill US soldiers....

THEY ARE NOT ONE IN THE SAME. The WH and SD have said as much.

The definition of terrorist or insurgents would be qualified by which side of the conflict you are standing on. Being politically correct you need to determine which side of the fence you stand.

To me I'd say that if they are celebrating the death and or destruction of U.S. armed forces or equipment and are carrying weapons that they are probably the enemy. If they shoot at you, they are probably the enemy. (Where is Jeff Foxworthy when you need him!!?)

If an insurgent has a weapon and shoots at a U.S. Marine, he is the enemy. If a terrorist has a weapon and shoots at a U.S. Soldier, he is the enemy. If your name is duhnese, you may be an idiot. If your name is Frankie, you may be related to duhnese.......

Matt Helm
09-14-2004, 06:59 AM
Which Iraqi insurgent flew a plane into buildings? :hmmm:

To be more correct: Which insurgent, that was harbored in Iraq, flew a plane into buildings?

memyselfI
09-14-2004, 07:02 AM
[QUOTE=r8er_h8er]The definition of terrorist or insurgents would be qualified by which side of the conflict you are standing on.QUOTE]

BINGO.

So this nonsense of saying we are liberating people can stop??? Cuz if they want to be liberated FROM the US they must be on the 'insurgent' part of the equation.

Chief Henry
09-14-2004, 07:41 AM
We'd better ramp up production of our Stockpiles of High explosive ordinence............

Syria doesn't have any problems that turning Israel loose doesn't solve............Iran is begging to host the First International MOAB dropping competition...........


Cluster bomb every jackass parade in Iraq........



Turn'em into Fossil Fuel. The whole world needs more petro !

Matt Helm
09-14-2004, 07:50 AM
[QUOTE=r8er_h8er]The definition of terrorist or insurgents would be qualified by which side of the conflict you are standing on.QUOTE]

BINGO.

So this nonsense of saying we are liberating people can stop??? Cuz if they want to be liberated from the US they must be on the 'insurgent' part of the equation.

You are not understanding who the "insurgents/terrorists" are in Iraq. Most of them are loyalist of SH, have you not been reading the papers? Even the liberal press has so stated.

You are taking a side, not out of knowledgable reference, but out of geopolitical standings. Your allegience is obviously not the same as most Americans.

Duck Dog
09-14-2004, 08:08 AM
Which Iraqi insurgent flew a plane into buildings? :hmmm:


Who said the insurgents were Iraqi? They are supported by terrorists and you know it.

And you wonder why people think you are un-American. You are constantly defending them.

Duck Dog
09-14-2004, 08:10 AM
Your allegience is obviously not the same as most Americans.

Understatement of the year.

I've posted some of her anti American shit on other sites and the guys who read it would like a few minutes alone with Miss Terrorist sympathizer.