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View Full Version : Swifties vindicated: Docs show Kerry lied Rather than tell the truth


FringeNC
09-14-2004, 09:22 AM
A bad, bad day at the DU....

http://www.newscentral.tv/uploads/franchise/point/point-20040913.shtml

In his campaign book Massachusetts Senator John Kerry notes there was fine line between actions that merited a court martial -- or a medal. He reported that medals were given for questionable activities in order to boost morale.

This narrow distinction figures into the controversy that has raged for a several weeks regarding the Silver Star Kerry was awarded for killing a Vietnamese man.

For more than 30 years, Kerry has portrayed a heroic version of a life and death struggle -- of staring down a suspected guerilla who was about to fire upon Kerry's swift boat. It was kill. Or be killed. At least, that's the version Kerry tells.

Eyewitnesses offer a far different account. They allege Kerry shot a wounded teenager retreating from battle.

Kerry has made public, hundreds of pages of official Navy documents to bolster his many claims. Conspicuous by its absence is the official after action report of what actually happened that day. The after action report written by John Kerry, himself.

In an exclusive, The Point has obtained this document from U.S. Navy archives (you can see it here). The pertinent section reads:

"PCF 94 beached in center of ambush in front of small path when Viet Cong sprung up from bunker 10 feet from unit. Man ran with weapon towards hootch. Forward M-60 machine gunner wounded man in leg. Officer-in-charge, LTjg Kerry, jumped ashore and gave pursuit while other units saturated area with fire and beached placing assault parties ashore. Kerry chased VC inland behind hootch and shot him while he fled -- capturing one B-40 rocket launcher with round in chamber."

So there you have it. The official record -- written by John Kerry -- supports what the critics have alleged rather than the John Wayne Kerry version the Massachusetts liberal has been telling.

Death is a reality of war. Events occur that are not for the faint of heart. Yet, John Kerry's account of killing what turned out to really be a wounded man while he fled continues Kerry's pattern of lies, exaggerations and embellishments.

Killing a wounded man while he retreated from battle is not an action that most servicemen would brag about. But then again, most servicemen would not return home and attack the very country they were supposed to fight for.

And that’s the Point.

I’m Mark Hyman.

Donger
09-14-2004, 09:25 AM
"PCF 94 beached in center of ambush in front of small path when Viet Cong sprung up from bunker 10 feet from unit. Man ran with weapon towards hootch. Forward M-60 machine gunner wounded man in leg. Officer-in-charge, LTjg Kerry, jumped ashore and gave pursuit while other units saturated area with fire and beached placing assault parties ashore. Kerry chased VC inland behind hootch and shot him while he fled -- capturing one B-40 rocket launcher with round in chamber."

I thought this account was common knowledge?

FringeNC
09-14-2004, 09:27 AM
I thought this account was common knowledge?

Well...it's the swifties take on the situation. It isn't Kerry's -- unless he has flip-flopped.

Cochise
09-14-2004, 09:31 AM
"LTjg Kerry, jumped ashore and gave pursuit while other units saturated area with fire and beached placing assault parties ashore. Kerry chased VC inland behind hootch and shot him while he fled "

What was sKerry's more glorious version of the event?

FringeNC
09-14-2004, 09:37 AM
"LTjg Kerry, jumped ashore and gave pursuit while other units saturated area with fire and beached placing assault parties ashore. Kerry chased VC inland behind hootch and shot him while he fled "

What was sKerry's more glorious version of the event?

Kerry won a silver star for leading an advance against a force with superior numbers. I think Kerry was did the right thing in shooting the fleeing man because he didn't drop the launcher, but it is certainly not worthy of a silver star, which Kerry lobbied for.

Mr. Kotter
09-14-2004, 09:45 AM
'.....Officer-in-charge, LTjg Kerry, jumped ashore and gave pursuit while other units saturated area with fire and beached placing assault parties ashore. Kerry chased VC inland behind hootch and shot him while he fled -- capturing one B-40 rocket launcher with round in chamber."

Wow. :hmmm:

IF this is validated as authentic, THIS will be fun to watch.... ROFL

Donger
09-14-2004, 09:46 AM
Kerry won a silver star for leading an advance against a force with superior numbers. I think Kerry was did the right thing in shooting the fleeing man because he didn't drop the launcher, but it is certainly not worthy of a silver star, which Kerry lobbied for.

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Silver_Star.pdf

"The extraordinary daring and personal courage of Lieutenant Kerry in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire...."

NewChief
09-14-2004, 09:50 AM
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Silver_Star.pdf

"The extraordinary daring and personal courage of Lieutenant Kerry in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire...."


The force was superior. It doesn't say, "killing a numerically superior force", it says attacking. They were in the middle of an ambush. The account in the silver star pdf and that in the article don't seem to conflict, to me.

You guys are really reaching, imo.

Donger
09-14-2004, 10:09 AM
The force was superior. It doesn't say, "killing a numerically superior force", it says attacking. They were in the middle of an ambush. The account in the silver star pdf and that in the article don't seem to conflict, to me.

You guys are really reaching, imo.

Ummm, I don't disagree.

NewChief
09-14-2004, 10:10 AM
Ummm, I don't disagree.

We'll just have to agree to agree then.

;)

Duck Dog
09-14-2004, 10:19 AM
The force was superior. It doesn't say, "killing a numerically superior force", it says attacking. They were in the middle of an ambush. The account in the silver star pdf and that in the article don't seem to conflict, to me.

You guys are really reaching, imo.


We don't have to reach. There's much better (or worse) out there.



By the authors account, I think sKerry did the right thing, even if he shot him in the back. The object is not to wound but to kill, especially if he had a rocket launcher. Jumping on shore and chasing someone is a pretty brave act. It's not above and beyond, but brave none the less. He's lucky the wounded teen didn't lead him into an ambush.

Is it Silver Star worthy? Who knows? What I do know is it's not the story I'm concerned with. I'm more concerned about his Cambodia lies and his testimony. Both of those show that he will lie through his teeth to advance himself.

NewChief
09-14-2004, 10:23 AM
We don't have to reach. There's much better (or worse) out there.


Not arguing about the other stuff in your post (as that's futile to argue about on here). I'm just saying that acting like this single story is the one that's going to break the election wide open and really expose Kerry for a fraud is a little over the top.

Duck Dog
09-14-2004, 10:25 AM
Not arguing about the other stuff in your post (as that's futile to argue about on here). I'm just saying that acting like this single story is the one that's going to break the election wide open and really expose Kerry for a fraud is a little over the top.


I agree.

Cochise
09-14-2004, 10:25 AM
Not arguing about the other stuff in your post (as that's futile to argue about on here). I'm just saying that acting like this single story is the one that's going to break the election wide open and really expose Kerry for a fraud is a little over the top.

No, but if you keep piling on straws, eventually it will break the camel's back.

NewChief
09-14-2004, 10:27 AM
No, but if you keep piling on straws, eventually it will break the camel's back.

Strawpiling...I like it. Seems like a great word to describe most of what's gone on from both sides in this election.


So should we call RL the master straw piler?

Duck Dog
09-14-2004, 10:30 AM
Strawpiling...I like it. Seems like a great word to describe most of what's gone on from both sides in this election.


So should we call RL the master straw piler?


It is a good description. Except every time the Dems place a straw on Bush's back, it's easily debunked. Mean while, there are enough straws on sKerry’s back to replicate the Eiffel Tower.

NewChief
09-14-2004, 10:32 AM
It is a good description. Except every time the Dems place a straw on Bush's back, it's easily debunked. Mean while, there are enough straws on sKerry’s back to replicate the Eiffel Tower.


As with all things, it just depends on your perspective.

RINGLEADER
09-14-2004, 11:14 AM
Strawpiling...I like it. Seems like a great word to describe most of what's gone on from both sides in this election.


So should we call RL the master straw piler?


:shrug:

I always thought Kerry's argument wasn't that he went after this guy (although his account of this story does differ from William Rood and others who he has cited to confirm his version), but that there was an earlier incident that day in which he went after a superior force.

Also, I know the guy is saying that this document proves that Kerry wrote the document (which would be news, IMO, since Kerry's campaign has been saying these documents prove his version of events), but I can't find evidence of that anywhere. Can someone point it out where it says Kerry wrote it?

FringeNC
09-14-2004, 11:38 AM
The importance is that the Swifties were proven correct. I think TJ and Jaz owe them an apology.