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View Full Version : Broncos lose 3rd round pick next year


Chieficus
09-16-2004, 06:04 PM
haven't seen this posted yet...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1883127

Associated Press
NEW YORK -- The Denver Broncos have been fined $950,000 and will lose their third-round pick in next year's NFL draft for circumventing the salary cap between 1996-98.

The penalties were levied Thursday following an agreement involving the league, its union and the team.

The violations included agreements between the team and several players to defer salary payments with interest and an agreement not to waive a player before a certain date. Both raised issues with accounting for the salary cap.

In addition to the penalties against the team, the NFL said an agent for a former player agreed to donate $100,000 to charity. Neither the agent nor the player was identified.

Count Alex's Losses
09-16-2004, 06:07 PM
Cheating on and off the field.

Pants
09-16-2004, 06:07 PM
Nice story, rep.

cdcox
09-16-2004, 06:22 PM
Is anyone really suprised that the Dever Bronco's* did this?


*violated the salary cap during their championship seasons.

Hydrae
09-16-2004, 06:24 PM
It has been 6 years since the end of this time period and they are just now being penalized??? :shake:

Skip Towne
09-16-2004, 06:25 PM
Wow! I'm just shocked.

Braincase
09-16-2004, 06:27 PM
Where are our resident Bronco salary cap apologists?

Bwana
09-16-2004, 06:31 PM
Big surprise there. :rolleyes:

HolmeZz
09-16-2004, 06:31 PM
Is that the only penalty for violating the cap?

KCTitus
09-16-2004, 06:40 PM
I wonder if Teej knows this...I really had to pop on this PM to just say:


CHEATERS

I'll be interested in the spin tomorrow.

Someone should keep tabs on the mane...it may be reduced to rubble now.

Skip Towne
09-16-2004, 06:43 PM
Taco and Garcia will be along shortly to explain how they really didn't do anything illegal.

shaneo69
09-16-2004, 06:54 PM
So they cheated during the years they won the Super Bowl? I think they should award the championship to the Packers and Falcons for those years.

PastorMikH
09-16-2004, 07:00 PM
Wow! The Broncos finally win a couple of Superbowls only to find out they cheated to get there.:shake:

PastorMikH
09-16-2004, 07:01 PM
So they cheated during the years they won the Super Bowl? I think they should award the championship to the Packers and Falcons for those years.



Beat me to it.:banghead:


Guess that's what I get for researching to make sure.

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 07:03 PM
hehe..LMAO at you guys

HolmeZz
09-16-2004, 07:14 PM
No explanation?

Braincase
09-16-2004, 07:52 PM
hehe..LMAO at you guys

Whyzat? You cheated, got caught, and it's funny to you? Damn, you go to CU too?

the Talking Can
09-16-2004, 07:59 PM
This is b.s....Lynch had his head up, a textbook tackle.

C-Mac
09-16-2004, 08:00 PM
I see a future in politics for Shanahan, the weasely ratstijen.
ROFL

John_Wayne
09-16-2004, 08:17 PM
One THIRD round pick!!! That's all???? Their cheating wins them two super bowls and all they get penalized is a THIRD round pick!!??

ROYC75
09-16-2004, 08:30 PM
Guess it had more to do than the Crisco !

morphius
09-16-2004, 08:36 PM
Well, I guess since the guy looks like a rodent he felt he had to act like one too. I guess anytime that a Donx fan tries to bring up the SB wins here, I guess after 4 times losing the SB this was their only option left. I hate those posers more every year.

KCWolfman
09-16-2004, 08:36 PM
I sure am glad Pat Bowlen wants to remove riff-raff from the NFL.

The bastard has to be rich and pay someone to shave him, because no human with a soul would be able to look in the mirror to shave after the BS he sells.

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 08:38 PM
You guys make me laugh.

morphius
09-16-2004, 08:41 PM
You guys make me laugh.
We know, we know, you are proud to be cheaters as long as you win.

KCWolfman
09-16-2004, 08:42 PM
You guys make me laugh.
Surprise!

GB likes that Bowlen had to cheat to win. No shock there.

Phobia
09-16-2004, 08:43 PM
3rd round pick? Hell, we were penalized more than that for hiring a consultant away from the Rams. WTF is the salary cap good for if a violation doesn't even warrant a slap on the wrist. I'm sure every donkey fan would trade a 3rd round pick and almost a Mill of Bowlen's mon-ay for a SB anyday. That's crap.

cdcox
09-16-2004, 08:47 PM
One THIRD round pick!!! That's all???? Their cheating wins them two super bowls and all they get penalized is a THIRD round pick!!??

Actually, I think Denver* lost a 4th round pick a year or two ago over the same thing. I think the league is spreading out the punishment to downplay the incident. If they would have laid out the whole punishment at once, the magnitude of the travesty would be fully obvious. The league would be forced to strip Denver* of their title.



*violated the salary cap during their championship seasons.

AirForceChief
09-16-2004, 08:47 PM
Is that the only penalty for violating the cap?
If that's all it costs to get two Lombardies, Carl and Lamar need to sign the Chiefs up yesterday!!

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 08:48 PM
It kills me...you guys don't even know the whole story...nor do I for that matter...and what's the charity tidbit about? The write up from ESPN is odd....it doesn't tell you what happened in detail...but I'm sure we'll hear more about it tomorrow. They already took a draft pick from us for this in 2002 so I'll be interested to hear more.



But....

If you think for one minute this is why we kicked your ass up and down the field those years....you're mistaken.

morphius
09-16-2004, 08:50 PM
Actually, I think Denver* lost a 4th round pick a year or two ago over the same thing. I think the league is spreading out the punishment to downplay the incident. If they would have laid out the whole punishment at once, the magnitude of the travesty would be fully obvious. The league would be forced to strip Denver* of their title.



*violated the salary cap during their championship seasons.
Yeah, the lost a pick for some money they held onto for both TD and Elway a couple of years ago.

ceebz
09-16-2004, 08:51 PM
I've been saying for years that the Mike Shannahan Broncos are the new Raiders. There's nothing they wouldn't do, (illegal or otherwise) to win.

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 08:51 PM
Actually, I think Denver* lost a 4th round pick a year or two ago over the same thing. I think the league is spreading out the punishment to downplay the incident. If they would have laid out the whole punishment at once, the magnitude of the travesty would be fully obvious. The league would be forced to strip Denver* of their title.



*violated the salary cap during their championship seasons.
That was defered signing bonuses for TD and Elway and it wasn't a written rule...it just wasn't...once the league made note of it...the bonuses were paid the next day.

ROYC75
09-16-2004, 09:00 PM
So cheating on the cap didn't allow you guys to add other players that helped you win2 SB's ?

Kinda like the crisco and illegal blocks didn't help either ?

Gee, guess Donkey vision is blind !

ROYC75
09-16-2004, 09:01 PM
That was defered signing bonuses for TD and Elway and it wasn't a written rule...it just wasn't...once the league made note of it...the bonuses were paid the next day.

Then why the fine and draft picks taken away ? :hmmm:

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 09:03 PM
So cheating on the cap didn't allow you guys to add other players that helped you win2 SB's ?

Kinda like the crisco and illegal blocks didn't help either ?

Gee, guess Donkey vision is blind !


Roy...which players are we talking about...is it a whole...part of one player...or parts of a couple....what percentage is it. I mean I know you guys are having fun with it....but come on.

morphius
09-16-2004, 09:03 PM
Then why the fine and draft picks taken away ? :hmmm:
That was the set a couple years ago.

Bowser
09-16-2004, 09:05 PM
I'll pull temp duty for Iowanian.............

Bowlen can seck mah BAOWS!!!

Phobia
09-16-2004, 09:06 PM
ROFL

It wasn't a real rule, that's why the league isn't lambasting them. All of the rules that the donkeys break are soft rules.

I shoulda known that would be the donk spin on this situation.

Bam Morris wasn't really selling drugs, he was setup by the mafia.... Vanover didn't steal an SUV, he borrowed it indefinitely. Andre Rison didn't steal any music equipment, he paid the permanent rental fee.

I'm not sure which excuse is most preposterous.

Bowser
09-16-2004, 09:07 PM
Didn't Elway agree to downsize his salary to the league minimum after he sold his car dealerships, and Terrell Davis got a huge signing bonus not long after? It sounded fishy back then..............

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 09:08 PM
Then why the fine and draft picks taken away ? :hmmm:

Because the league retro-actively made a rule. i.e...they made it up as they went along. Fine. But don't say we cheated or that we didn't win on the field. It just recockulous

ROYC75
09-16-2004, 09:09 PM
Roy...which players are we talking about...is it a whole...part of one player...or parts of a couple....what percentage is it. I mean I know you guys are having fun with it....but come on.


I'm just giving you a hard time. I haven't a clue as to who or how. But at the same time it was rumored for a long time that something odd was taking place with your cap during those years.

My question is this, Why did it take so long to come out ?

cdcox
09-16-2004, 09:10 PM
Roy...which players are we talking about...is it a whole...part of one player...or parts of a couple....what percentage is it. I mean I know you guys are having fun with it....but come on.

OK, exactly how much was the cap violation? Don't know? That is because the league is covering it up! Denver* should be stripped of their titles.



*violated the salary cap during their championship seasons.

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 09:12 PM
I'm just giving you a hard time. I haven't a clue as to who or how. But at the same time it was rumored for a long time that something odd was taking place with your cap during those years.

My question is this, Why did it take so long to come out ?

It's been out...that's what I don't understand...and I still don't understand what the charity thing is about. Somebody on the OM has said that this is what it's about...the team asking a player through his agent to donate money to charity...which is against the rules. I just don't know.

Valiant
09-16-2004, 09:16 PM
OK, exactly how much was the cap violation? Don't know? That is because the league is covering it up! Denver* should be stripped of their titles.



*violated the salary cap during their championship seasons.


It will never happen but..I would piss my self laughing if it did...

Skip Towne
09-16-2004, 09:18 PM
It kills me...you guys don't even know the whole story...nor do I for that matter...and what's the charity tidbit about? The write up from ESPN is odd....it doesn't tell you what happened in detail...but I'm sure we'll hear more about it tomorrow. They already took a draft pick from us for this in 2002 so I'll be interested to hear more.



But....

If you think for one minute this is why we kicked your ass up and down the field those years....you're mistaken.
I have learned not to listen to one single thing you say. You used to have a measure of credibility but not anymore. You have regressed to Taco's level. The both of you try to smooth over every transgression the Donks commit. You people are even more despicable than the Raiders. Go fvck yourself.

Iowanian
09-16-2004, 09:18 PM
Cheating Burros.


Strip them of the Bogus Titles, repo their rings and Elways MVP white stolen Expedition...Put it all on the discovery channel "repo man" show.

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 09:23 PM
I have learned not to listen to one single thing you say. You used to have a measure of credibility but not anymore. You have regressed to Taco's level. The both of you try to smooth over every transgression the Donks commit. You people are even more despicable than the Raiders. Go fvck yourself.


Now now skippy..lets keep our head here.

Valiant
09-16-2004, 09:25 PM
I thought the donks moved salary money after TD and elways retirements to signing bonus money.. since these come from two different pockets it allowed the donks to sign more players and not go over the cap...

Skip Towne
09-16-2004, 09:26 PM
Cheating Burros.


Strip them of the Bogus Titles, repo their rings and Elways MVP white stolen Expedition...Put it all on the discovery channel "repo man" show.
While I like the spirit of your post, it is not harsh enough. Each and every cheating Donko should be publically de-nutted. Yeah, de-nutted.

Phobia
09-16-2004, 09:27 PM
Now now skippy..lets keep our head here.

While I won't take it to the level Skip has, this silly spinning is rapidly approaching Denisian levels. Jeez - your team screwed up. They got caught. It's a fact. Don't ask what the definition of "is" is and don't tell me that a blowjob isn't sexual contact. WTF is wrong with people?

If the Chiefs got busted for something like this, I'd hang my head for a while but you damn sure wouldn't hear a freaking excuse out of my mouth.

Skip Towne
09-16-2004, 09:31 PM
How do we know they aren't doing the same damn thing right now? And last year. And the year before. Those Donkey assholes should be drummed out of the league. They have absolutely NO sense of fair play. Suspend them indefinately. Give 'em some time to think about it.

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 09:36 PM
From NFL.com

Following are comments by NFL Executive Vice President of Labor Relations Harold Henderson, who also serves as chairman of the NFL Management Council:


The investigation resulted in the discovery of undisclosed agreements between the club and Broncos players during the same period (1996-1998) pursuant to which various players agreed to defer certain compensation in exchange for a commitment to pay interest on the deferred amounts. These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Broncos' need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver."
"The investigation also uncovered an undisclosed 1997 commitment by the Broncos not to waive a player prior to a certain date. That commitment had the effect of converting the player's roster bonus into a guarantee, which affected the timing of the salary cap treatment of a portion of the bonus."
"The individuals responsible for the violations are no longer with the team. The Broncos have been cooperative throughout the investigation and agreed on the settlement terms that we deemed satisfactory to resolve the dispute."

ROYC75
09-16-2004, 09:40 PM
There has to be more to it than that, this is the 2nd go around, what is the leauge hiding.

Something else is still in the stinking stable.

Phobia
09-16-2004, 09:42 PM
From NFL.com

Following are comments by NFL Executive Vice President of Labor Relations Harold Henderson, who also serves as chairman of the NFL Management Council:

Oh - well that makes it all better. All is forgiven. I'm sorry I ever doubted the Donkeys. Mike Shannarat is the best!

Bowser
09-16-2004, 09:44 PM
According to GB's post, it looks like the Broncos screwed themselves by trying to take care of Elway and/or Davis.

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 09:45 PM
There has to be more to it than that, this is the 2nd go around, what is the leauge hiding.

Something else is still in the stinking stable.


Maybe they found loop holes out the yang and league is trying/did shut the door on said loop holes.....shit looks pretty crafty to me.

Phobia
09-16-2004, 09:48 PM
Maybe they found loop holes out the yang and league is trying/did shut the door on said loop holes.....shit looks pretty crafty to me.

Loophole: an ambiguity or omission in the text through which the intent of a statute, contract, or obligation may be evaded

I don't think what is happening here meets anybody's definition of "loophole". Post your own.

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 09:52 PM
Loophole: an ambiguity or omission in the text through which the intent of a statute, contract, or obligation may be evaded

I don't think what is happening here meets anybody's definition of "loophole". Post your own.

Bottom line Phob...it wasn't a.."we need more players type of thing"...it was a cash flow thing...as stated by the NFL...so we can put all the "They cheated and signed more players" crap to bed.

morphius
09-16-2004, 09:55 PM
Bottom line Phob...it wasn't a.."we need more players type of thing"...it was a cash flow thing...as stated by the NFL...so we can put all the "They cheated and signed more players" crap to bed.
Yeah, cause I'm sure none of that "cash flow" was used for signing bonuses of new players or resign players...

cdcox
09-16-2004, 09:57 PM
Bottom line Phob...it wasn't a.."we need more players type of thing"...it was a cash flow thing...as stated by the NFL...so we can put all the "They cheated and signed more players" crap to bed.

Which part of circumventing the salary cap don't you understand?

Phobia
09-16-2004, 10:00 PM
Bottom line Phob...it wasn't a.."we need more players type of thing"...it was a cash flow thing...as stated by the NFL...so we can put all the "They cheated and signed more players" crap to bed.

Okay - now we're getting somewhere. So it actually was a rules infraction and not a loophole afterall?

TEX
09-16-2004, 10:00 PM
Bottom line Phob...it wasn't a.."we need more players type of thing"...it was a cash flow thing...as stated by the NFL...so we can put all the "They cheated and signed more players" crap to bed.

How about simply, "AL Davis was RIGHT and the DONX just CHEATED period?"

You guys really crack me up. If it looks like a CHEATER, and it smells like a CHEATER, it is a CHEATER - unless it's a Bronco of course... ROFL

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 10:00 PM
Yeah, cause I'm sure none of that "cash flow" was used for signing bonuses of new players or resign players...

Look dude...it's what the NFL released in a statement on their website....that's all we have to go on. You can hardly fault the business to move around cash to pay for a new stadium to get more revenue to surive in the NFL. A problem your team is currently dealing with...and will only get worse as time goes on. Let's just say I wouldn't be surprised if the Chiefs aren't in KC without a new Stadium or enhacements to Arrowhead sometime soon.

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 10:03 PM
Okay - now we're getting somewhere. So it actually was a rules infraction and not a loophole afterall?


Well according the the NFL it wasn't. The loophole post was in response to Roy's posts about covering up something deeper. My reply was merely a sugestion of...maybe you're right Roy....I don't know. That's when I went looking for more information besides that half-assed report by Espin.

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 10:04 PM
How about simply, "AL Davis was RIGHT and the DONX just CHEATED period?"




LOL...that's rich. :)

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 10:05 PM
Which part of circumventing the salary cap don't you understand?

And what part about the statement from the NFL do you not understand?

Phobia
09-16-2004, 10:06 PM
You can hardly fault the business to move around cash to pay for a new stadium to get more revenue to surive in the NFL.

Um. Yes we can. It's against the rules. Why are we STILL taking about this? It's another case where you're wrong and we're right, but you don't want to take the NFL's word for it. The facts are indisputable and the fine is REAL. The donkeys cheated. First it's a little lubricant on their jerseys and before you know it, they are circumventing the entire system of parity in the NFL.

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 10:12 PM
Um. Yes we can. It's against the rules. Why are we STILL taking about this? It's another case where you're wrong and we're right, but you don't want to take the NFL's word for it. The facts are indisputable and the fine is REAL. The donkeys cheated. First it's a little lubricant on their jerseys and before you know it, they are circumventing the entire system of parity in the NFL.

You're killing me dude...the NFL straight up said "These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Broncos' need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver."

So it wasn't to sign players. Ergo, the integrity of the play on the field is intact. Thanks for playing.

stevieray
09-16-2004, 10:21 PM
Invescos are the scum of the league, just add one more reason why they don't deserve that first trophy.

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 10:23 PM
Invescos are the scum of the league, just add one more reason why they don't deserve that first trophy.

These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Broncos' need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver."

TEX
09-16-2004, 10:24 PM
Sio this is twice the CHEATING DONX were stripped of a 3rd round draft pick for "doing nothing wrong?" ROFL

cdcox
09-16-2004, 10:24 PM
I'll go slow so you can follow. Sometimes if you move you lips when you read it can help with comprehension:

1. Donks* need cash flow help to finance staidum. No problem, write contracts to do so. But, you have to stay under the cap.

2. Donks* don't stay under the cap. This is a rule violation.

3. In order to stay under the cap with the contracts the Donks* had in place, they would have had to have had to reduce the compensation to players.

4. Some of those players may not have signed for the reduced contracts the Donks* would have had to offer.

5. Superbowl victories are tainted.


*violated the salary cap during their championship seasons.

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 10:26 PM
I'll go slow so you can follow. Sometimes if you move you lips when you read it can help with comprehension:

1. Donks* need cash flow help to finance staidum. No problem, write contracts to do so. But, you have to stay under the cap.

2. Donks* don't stay under the cap. This is a rule violation.

3. In order to stay under the cap with the contracts the Donks* had in place, they would have had to have had to reduce the compensation to players.

4. Some of those players may not have signed for the reduced contracts the Donks* would have had to offer.

5. Superbowl victories are tainted.


*violated the salary cap during their championship seasons.

These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Broncos' need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver."

TEX
09-16-2004, 10:26 PM
Invescos are the scum of the league, just add one more reason why they don't deserve that first trophy.

:clap:

Maybe all the record books printed from this day forward shoud contain an * (They CHEATED) when listing that first one... :shake:

stevieray
09-16-2004, 10:27 PM
These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Broncos' need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver."

dude, I lived in Denver then, that stadium was initially voted down, until Tags handed it to you on silver platter.

your organization has no integrity, that's why you only have one player in the HOF after forty years, noone will even give a crap about the Invescos SB in the future, because you CHEAT. You guys don't KNOW how to PLAY without CHEATING.

I don't care what you say, your team is an embarassment to competition.

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 10:28 PM
dude, I lived in Denver then, that stadium was initially voted down, until Tags handed it to you on silver platter.

your organization has no integrity, that's why you only have one player in the HOF after forty years, noone will eve n give a crap about the Invescos SB, because you CHEAT. you guys don't KNOW how to PLAY without CHEATING.

I don't care what you say, your team is an embarassment to competition.

These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Broncos' need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver."

Uncle Fester
09-16-2004, 10:29 PM
You're killing me dude...the NFL straight up said "These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Broncos' need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver."

So it wasn't to sign players. Ergo, the integrity of the play on the field is intact. Thanks for playing.

Bowlen held Denver hostage and forced us taxpayers to pay for invesco, remember?:)

Mile High Mania
09-16-2004, 10:29 PM
I didn't realize they were still reviewing this... ah well, I said it years ago and I'll say it again - if they did something illegal, fine 'em or whatever and move on.

stevieray
09-16-2004, 10:30 PM
These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Broncos' need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver."


That's why you got fined....

Phobia
09-16-2004, 10:30 PM
Cool.

I'm gonna hold up a 7-11 and use that as my defense:

This robbery plainly designed to help Phil cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by his need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new house in KC.

Hopefully everything will work out.

stevieray
09-16-2004, 10:30 PM
Bowlen held Denver hostage and forced us taxpayers to pay for invesco, remember?:)

bingo!

Skip Towne
09-16-2004, 10:31 PM
Now now skippy..lets keep our head here.
Keep my head? Is that your answer? I have noticed that neither you nor Taco ever address my posts. You like the people that will argue with you. I won't. You are guilty of everything the NFL charges you with. Yet you continue to deny any culpability. Your team blatantly cheats at ever opportunity. Consequently, I have no respect for anyone that backs that team. You obviously have no more scruples than the team you root for. Your team and its backers are devoid of any morals whatsoever.

cdcox
09-16-2004, 10:31 PM
LALALALALALALALALALALALA
lALALALALALALALA The Superbowls are not tainted!!!!!111 LALALALALALALAL "

pathetic

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 10:32 PM
Cool.

I'm gonna hold up a 7-11 and use that as my defense:

This robbery plainly designed to help Phil cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by his need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new house in KC.

Hopefully everything will work out.

haha...I don't think that'll work...you can't get enough cash from Sev's...aim higher. :)

Mile High Mania
09-16-2004, 10:32 PM
dude, I lived in Denver then, that stadium was initially voted down, until Tags handed it to you on silver platter.

your organization has no integrity, that's why you only have one player in the HOF after forty years, noone will even give a crap about the Invescos SB in the future, because you CHEAT. You guys don't KNOW how to PLAY without CHEATING.

I don't care what you say, your team is an embarassment to competition.

That's classic... I think that last line has been used to describe your defense for a while now.

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 10:33 PM
Keep my head? Is that your answer? I have noticed that neither you nor Taco ever address my posts. You like the people that will argue with you. I won't. You are guilty of everything the NFL charges you with. Yet you continue to deny any culpability. Your team blatantly cheats at ever opportunity. Consequently, I have no respect for anyone that backs that team. You obviously have no more scruples than the team you root for. Your team and its backers are devoid of any morals whatsoever.

Skipp...it's better to have people think you're a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Phobia
09-16-2004, 10:34 PM
I didn't realize they were still reviewing this... ah well, I said it years ago and I'll say it again - if they did something illegal, fine 'em or whatever and move on.

See - that's a reasonable response. Thanks for being you, Brad.

stevieray
09-16-2004, 10:35 PM
That's classic... I think that last line has been used to describe your defense for a while now.

try harder, brad.

tk13
09-16-2004, 10:37 PM
No wonder our Chiefs have it so tough, having to compete in a division full of ruthless cheaters. :shake:



This post was not designed to stir crap or tick off Bronco fans. Would I lie to you?

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 10:39 PM
:)

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 10:41 PM
No wonder our Chiefs have it so tough, having to compete in a division full of ruthless cheaters. :shake:



This post was not designed to stir crap or tick off Bronco fans. Would I lie to you?

Hehe

Skip Towne
09-16-2004, 10:41 PM
Skipp...it's better to have people think you're a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
I'm happy you are familiar with that phrase. Unfortunately, for you, it applies to you. I noticed you didn't rebut what I said but instead chose to invoke a cliche. Typical of an ignorant donkey.

Mr. Laz
09-16-2004, 10:42 PM
i dont know which is worse...


fudging the cap and getting caught

or

not using your entire cap because your a cheap @ss bast@rd

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 10:43 PM
I'm happy you are familiar with that phrase. Unfortunately, for you, it applies to you. I noticed you didn't rebut what I said but instead chose to invoke a cliche. Typical of an ignorant donkey.

If I've not responded to your posts in the past Skippy...it's beacause I think you have anger issues.

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 10:44 PM
i dont know which is worse...


fudging the cap and getting caught

or

not using your entire cap because your a cheap @ss bast@rd

I posted about that earlier and I've said it all off-season...I don't think Hunt has the money to spare to pay for players.

Mr. Laz
09-16-2004, 10:49 PM
I posted about that earlier and I've said it all off-season...I don't think Hunt has the money to spare to pay for players.

chiefs made 20 million dollars profit last year... if that Old fvcker is using the chiefs' profit to fund his stupid soccer team then


lamar hunt can seck mah BAOWS!!

Mile High Mania
09-16-2004, 10:54 PM
See - that's a reasonable response. Thanks for being you, Brad.

It's not my money and the pick does nothing about 2004... plus, I'll just consider that 2005 3rd rounder would have been a spare WR that would have been a busted pick anyway.

Mile High Mania
09-16-2004, 10:56 PM
Hey - yesterday, htismaqe was complaining about Broncos' news on a Chiefs board. Did you guys clear this with him? If not, let's trash the thread...

Skip Towne
09-16-2004, 11:05 PM
If I've not responded to your posts in the past Skippy...it's beacause I think you have anger issues.
Touche I don't respond to your posts because you have stupidity issues. You argue against the obvious. You get flagged and fined yet continue to argue. Where does this end? And what do anger issues have to do with it? If I kept arguing because of anger you might have a point but I don't even give you guys the time of day let alone argue with you? :shrug:

Garcia Bronco
09-16-2004, 11:07 PM
Touche I don't respond to your posts because you have stupidity issues. You argue against the obvious. You get flagged and fined yet continue to argue. Where does this end? And what do anger issues have to do with it? If I kept arguing because of anger you might have a point but I don't even give you guys the time of day let alone argue with you? :shrug:

It's just the impression I get from your posts...either that or I don't think I need to dignify it. You obviously have a skewed perception. That's fine...but don't act like I have to agree with you.

Skip Towne
09-16-2004, 11:18 PM
chiefs made 20 million dollars profit last year... if that Old fvcker is using the chiefs' profit to fund his stupid soccer team then


lamar hunt can seck mah BAOWS!!
Well, Lazarus, before now I have left you entirely alone. But Garcia got me fired up and now I feel compelled to respond to you. Do you think Lamar is entitled to a profit on his investment? Do you think a 10% profit per year is exorbitant? What is his investment in the Chiefs franchise? And what business is it of yours what Lamar does with his money? Please explain your position.

Ugly Duck
09-17-2004, 12:31 AM
You can hardly fault the business to move around cash to pay for a new stadium to get more revenue to surive in the NFL. Hmmmm... It seems the League didn't have any problems faulting the Donks and penalizing them a 3rd rounder. Why is that?

Ugly Duck
09-17-2004, 12:34 AM
You people are even more despicable than the Raiders. Dang... thats the nicest thing I've heard about us since I been here. Thank you, Skip!

Phobia
09-17-2004, 12:37 AM
Hmmmm... It seems the League didn't have any problems faulting the Donks and penalizing them a 3rd rounder. Why is that?
I also found that excuse to be lacking. How many new stadiums are there in the NFL (or pro sports, for that matter)? How many of those teams broke salary cap rules to get into their stadiums?

One. The Denver Broncos.

I know the Broncos kicked our butt last Sunday. I don't care. It doesn't factor in. If the Arizona Cardinals whom the Chiefs have rarely lost to broke the salary cap rules, I'd be equally disgusted. I'm sure I wouldn't have posted as much about it, but that's because a Cardinal fan likely wouldn't have been on here attempting to rationalize the infraction.

SBK
09-17-2004, 12:41 AM
[QUOTE=lazarus]chiefs made 20 million dollars profit last year...[QUOTE]

He can do whatever he wants with his money, don't bother me, but I guarantee you that he made WAAAAAAYYY more than 20 million. With the tv money he's already in the profit column, before 1 friggin ticket is sold, or t shirt or jersey etc. Don't forget videos, video games, tv shows, and the list goes on and on and on. Heck, how much do you think he makes just on the red shirts and jerseys everyone wears to the game? I also can't imagine dude has much debt as long as he's been around.......

tk13
09-17-2004, 12:48 AM
He can do whatever he wants with his money, don't bother me, but I guarantee you that he made WAAAAAAYYY more than 20 million. With the tv money he's already in the profit column, before 1 friggin ticket is sold, or t shirt or jersey etc. Don't forget videos, video games, tv shows, and the list goes on and on and on. Heck, how much do you think he makes just on the red shirts and jerseys everyone wears to the game? I also can't imagine dude has much debt as long as he's been around.......
He's basing that off a study by Forbes Magazine about how much teams make and how much they're worth. The Chiefs had an operating income of about 24 million dollars... who knows if their numbers are right or wrong I guess. The Redskins led the league, they had almost 70 million in operating income. That is quite a bit of money.

Phobia
09-17-2004, 01:13 AM
He can do whatever he wants with his money, don't bother me, but I guarantee you that he made WAAAAAAYYY more than 20 million. With the tv money he's already in the profit column, before 1 friggin ticket is sold, or t shirt or jersey etc. Don't forget videos, video games, tv shows, and the list goes on and on and on. Heck, how much do you think he makes just on the red shirts and jerseys everyone wears to the game? I also can't imagine dude has much debt as long as he's been around.......

Much debt? Are you kidding? Lamar Hunt is one of the richest men in America. Before computer companies dominated the NYSE and NASDAQ, Lamar Hunt was in the top 10 richest men in the land. Prior to Paul Allen buying the Seahawks, he was the richest man in the NFL - by far.

You think Deion Sanders was an amazing two-sport star? Lamar Hunt is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, Soccer Hall of Fame, AND the Tennis Hall of Fame - betcha didn't know that one, did you? He is also part owner of the Chicago Bulls.

Lamar Hunt is probably making money out of your pocket as you type your next post despite your fandom of the Chiefs.

SBK
09-17-2004, 03:06 AM
The debt reference was to say that he's not paying tons of debt with the money coming in, ie Boston Red Sox. Steinbrenner can have his huge salary cause he doesn't have debt. That's all I was saying. Although I learned some stuff I didn't know. Good guy that Lamar Hunt!

Amnorix
09-17-2004, 06:45 AM
Frankly, that's a ridiculously light penalty.

They should lose alot more draft picks. Like a 3rd rounder for 3 straight years (one for each year they violated) or something.

One third round pick and some pocket change?! What a joke.

KCTitus
09-17-2004, 06:49 AM
Frankly, that's a ridiculously light penalty.

They should lose alot more draft picks. Like a 3rd rounder for 3 straight years (one for each year they violated) or something.

One third round pick and some pocket change?! What a joke.

Actually, this is the second 3rd rounder they have lost for salary cap violations, but the first one Teej and the boys are adamant that it wasnt for salary cap violations even though that's what the league office stated.


On a side note, I find it interesting that a thread about Denver violating the salary cap has become about Lamar Hunt. That stadium better be half empty on Sunday.

ROYC75
09-17-2004, 08:24 AM
There is more to this than the league is letting out of the stinking stable. This is the 2nd offense for this.......... if it is as bad as I think, Denver has worked some magical bullsh*t scheme with the NFL to not tarnish the SB wins due to the salary cap infractions.

Cash flow my ass........ An owner of a team, as rich as Bowlen is suppose to be didn't need to alter or cheat his salary cap to get the funds for his new Mile High Stable. You guys resigned multiple players and FA's that year.

This has cover up all over it. Right down from the league..... And how many years after the last SB win.....you bet, they wanted to distance themselves from the glory of your wins to the embarrasment that your organization . Imagine if this story would have broke after the 1st SB, or right after the 2nd one.

If you were over the cap, how could it not affect on who you signed and who you didn't sign. You were up against the cap to start with, you alter it ( cheat it more like it ) to fit your need and claim you had cash flow problems. We all knew and wondered how you guys were under the cap during those years.......

Where is the honor and dignity of cheating ? What is the meaning of a win if you cheat ? When you cheat, the integrity of the game is over looked.

How many teams in the NFL would like to cheat to get a SB or 2 ?

Somebody said it right on here, there should be a further investigation on this and a couple of * besides the name Denver on the Lombardi.

Cash and a 3 this time plus the previous was not enough of a fine.

How long before another fine comes from this ? Hey, this is the 2nd one already.....

BTA, to keep from tarnishing the NFL and the integrity of the game, we may never find out the truth. Like I said, some kind of bullsh*t, err, I mean Donkey sh*t scheme has probally staved this off from a bigger farcus than what's being lead to believe.

Mark M
09-17-2004, 08:30 AM
I found this on dictionary.com:
cheat
v. cheat·ed, cheat·ing, cheats
v. tr. To deceive by trickery; swindle: cheated customers by overcharging them for purchases. To deprive by trickery; defraud: cheated them of their land. To mislead; fool: illusions that cheat the eye. To elude; escape: cheat death.v. intr. To act dishonestly; practice fraud. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards. Seems pretty clear to me ...

MM
~~:shrug:

Rukdafaidas
09-17-2004, 08:40 AM
The NFL should be ashamed. The Broncos violated the very backbone of the NFL's system and the NFL tries to just sweep it under the rug and fine them a measly 3rd round pick. I agree with what Skip Bayless said this morning, they should have been fined at least 2 first round picks.

Mile High Mania
09-17-2004, 08:45 AM
Actually, this is the second 3rd rounder they have lost for salary cap violations, but the first one Teej and the boys are adamant that it wasnt for salary cap violations even though that's what the league office stated.


On a side note, I find it interesting that a thread about Denver violating the salary cap has become about Lamar Hunt. That stadium better be half empty on Sunday.

I'm not going to defend them on circumventing the cap - again, if they were wrong, penalize them.

As for the 3rd rounder they lost a few years ago... I can't recall from memory the whole story, but at the time I think the NFL spokesperson even said it had nothing to do with cap infractions.

Dunno, don't care at this point ... it's 2004 and I'm looking at the game vs the Jags.

cdcox
09-17-2004, 09:02 AM
More from NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/7687802

Br0ncos* salary cap case reaches settlement


NEW YORK (Sept. 16, 2004) -- The National Football League Management Council, the NFL Players Association, and the Denver Br0ncos* have agreed to a resolution of a salary cap circumvention case involving an investigation into undisclosed agreements with certain Br0ncos* players during the period of 1996-1998.

The settlement will result in the Br0ncos* losing their third-round pick in the 2005 NFL Draft and paying a fine of $950,000. In addition, while admitting no wrongdoing, an agent of a former Br0ncos* player will pay $100,000 to charity. The settlement ends a Special Master proceeding under the NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement that was initiated by the NFL Management Council in January of 2003 against the Br0ncos*.

The undisclosed agreements that formed the basis of the Management Council's disciplinary initiative, and ultimately the settlement between the Management Council and the Br0ncos*, included 1) agreements with several Br0ncos* players to defer salary payments with interest, and 2) an agreement with a former Br0ncos* player not to waive the player prior to a certain date. Both types of agreements raised salary cap accounting issue.

Following are comments by NFL Executive Vice President of Labor Relations Harold Henderson, who also serves as chairman of the NFL Management Council:

"The investigation resulted in the discovery of undisclosed agreements between the club and Br0ncos* players during the same period (1996-1998) pursuant to which various players agreed to defer certain compensation in exchange for a commitment to pay interest on the deferred amounts. These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Br0ncos'* need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver."
"The investigation also uncovered an undisclosed 1997 commitment by the Br0ncos* not to waive a player prior to a certain date. That commitment had the effect of converting the player's roster bonus into a guarantee, which affected the timing of the salary cap treatment of a portion of the bonus."
"The individuals responsible for the violations are no longer with the team. The Bronc0s* have been cooperative throughout the investigation and agreed on the settlement terms that we deemed satisfactory to resolve the dispute."


Note: the violations inclued several players

Note: the agreements were undisclosed. All NFL contracts must be filed in the league office to ensure that teams are in compliance with the cap. Donks* were cheating and they knew it.

*violated the salary cap during their championship seasons.

KCTitus
09-17-2004, 09:05 AM
I'm not going to defend them on circumventing the cap - again, if they were wrong, penalize them.

As for the 3rd rounder they lost a few years ago... I can't recall from memory the whole story, but at the time I think the NFL spokesperson even said it had nothing to do with cap infractions.

Dunno, don't care at this point ... it's 2004 and I'm looking at the game vs the Jags.

It's over the same thing...those defered compensation plans for, primarily, Elway and Davis.

Must be nice knowing that the only reason for the rings came as a result of circumventing the cap.

ChiTown
09-17-2004, 09:05 AM
Fug that, strip their Super Bowls. Cheating is cheating. If you get caught cheating, and you won the whole enchilada, they should negate their SB Championships. Seems fair to me........... :)

Mile High Mania
09-17-2004, 09:11 AM
It's over the same thing...those defered compensation plans for, primarily, Elway and Davis.

Must be nice knowing that the only reason for the rings came as a result of circumventing the cap.

I don't think that is exactly accurate. I am no cap expert, but if I understand the issue... the Broncos were wrong with how and when they would pay those players. They weren't "paying under the table" or hiding "extra money" in order to retain more skill players than the cap allowed.

Sounds like the cap stipulates you pay Player X the money due by this date and they were going around that. Again, that's what it sounds like to me ... guys like Elway and Davis were going to get their money, just deferred if possible.

Iowanian
09-17-2004, 09:17 AM
The Cheating Donks, should have a million removed from their salary cap for each year they cheated too.

KCTitus
09-17-2004, 09:21 AM
I don't think that is exactly accurate. I am no cap expert...

Neither am I, but if the league says they did, Im going to rely on their expertise on the subject.

Mr. Laz
09-17-2004, 10:17 AM
Well, Lazarus, before now I have left you entirely alone. But Garcia got me fired up and now I feel compelled to respond to you. Do you think Lamar is entitled to a profit on his investment? Do you think a 10% profit per year is exorbitant? What is his investment in the Chiefs franchise? And what business is it of yours what Lamar does with his money? Please explain your position.
sorry skip, didn't see your response until the next day



is Hunt entitled to a profit ... yes

is hunt entitled to do whatever he will with said profit ... yes

are fans entitled to get mad because he isn't reinvesting that profit back into the team ... yes


for the team to come out and say "we can't sign any free agents this year because of money, not cap, issues" and then have us find out that the chiefs made 20+ million dollars in profit is very disappointing.


it shows that winning ISN'T the chiefs #1 priority ... profit is


i don't ... and i dont' think any other chiefs fan wants lamar hunt to take a loss operating the chiefs.


but when the team gets close to super bowl level like we are on offense, i don't think it's too much to ask for the chiefs to maybe only take a 10+ million profit margin this year to upgrade the defensive talent to make a legitimate run at the super bowl.

do they have to spend wildly evey year?? .... no



but "settling" for a 10+ million dollar profit this year for a huge chance to win a super bowl isn't too much to ask.


especially since the chiefs are asking the city and tax payers to give them 200+ million dollars to improve arrowhead.


lamar hunt is just snaking out with as much money as he can ... and apparently is completely satisfied to maintain a team that is winning enough to keep his pockets full.



we dont need to hear this bullsh!t about how winning is the first priority from them anymore either.



here's your proof Raunsch/htismage:

Vermeil "we have the cap room, it's other financial issues"

Forbes: Chiefs had a 24 million dollar profit margin in 2003

stevieray
09-17-2004, 10:20 AM
three free agents last year, three this year. six free agnets signed on defense.

Mr. Laz
09-17-2004, 10:24 AM
three free agents last year, three this year. six free agnets signed on defense.

and who were the free agents added to the defense this year?



(btw it still doesn't change the fact that if you have cap room, you should spend to maximize your chances of winning the superbowl)

KCTitus
09-17-2004, 10:27 AM
three free agents last year, three this year. six free agnets signed on defense.

Let's not forget the contracts of Green, Holmes, Gonzo, Shields, Roaf, Morton, Kennison the last 2 years as well...

Again: why is this thread about Lamar? Dont we already have 6-8 of those already. This is about the Bronc0s cheating.

stevieray
09-17-2004, 10:29 AM
Hicks, Woods and Wesley.

htismaqe
09-17-2004, 11:04 AM
Hey - yesterday, htismaqe was complaining about Broncos' news on a Chiefs board. Did you guys clear this with him? If not, let's trash the thread...

You still don't get it do you?

Donkey news is AFC West news. The Chiefs are in the AFC West, and this is obviously applicable to the Chiefs.

The difference is that it WASN'T POSTED BY A ****ING BRONCO FAN.

Garcia Bronco
09-17-2004, 11:23 AM
More from NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/7687802

Br0ncos* salary cap case reaches settlement


NEW YORK (Sept. 16, 2004) -- The National Football League Management Council, the NFL Players Association, and the Denver Br0ncos* have agreed to a resolution of a salary cap circumvention case involving an investigation into undisclosed agreements with certain Br0ncos* players during the period of 1996-1998.

The settlement will result in the Br0ncos* losing their third-round pick in the 2005 NFL Draft and paying a fine of $950,000. In addition, while admitting no wrongdoing, an agent of a former Br0ncos* player will pay $100,000 to charity. The settlement ends a Special Master proceeding under the NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement that was initiated by the NFL Management Council in January of 2003 against the Br0ncos*.

The undisclosed agreements that formed the basis of the Management Council's disciplinary initiative, and ultimately the settlement between the Management Council and the Br0ncos*, included 1) agreements with several Br0ncos* players to defer salary payments with interest, and 2) an agreement with a former Br0ncos* player not to waive the player prior to a certain date. Both types of agreements raised salary cap accounting issue.

Following are comments by NFL Executive Vice President of Labor Relations Harold Henderson, who also serves as chairman of the NFL Management Council:

"The investigation resulted in the discovery of undisclosed agreements between the club and Br0ncos* players during the same period (1996-1998) pursuant to which various players agreed to defer certain compensation in exchange for a commitment to pay interest on the deferred amounts. These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Br0ncos'* need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver."
"The investigation also uncovered an undisclosed 1997 commitment by the Br0ncos* not to waive a player prior to a certain date. That commitment had the effect of converting the player's roster bonus into a guarantee, which affected the timing of the salary cap treatment of a portion of the bonus."
"The individuals responsible for the violations are no longer with the team. The Bronc0s* have been cooperative throughout the investigation and agreed on the settlement terms that we deemed satisfactory to resolve the dispute."


Note: the violations inclued several players

Note: the agreements were undisclosed. All NFL contracts must be filed in the league office to ensure that teams are in compliance with the cap. Donks* were cheating and they knew it.

*violated the salary cap during their championship seasons.

Further proof that you didn't read my posts on this yesterday...I already posted this part of this article in this thread yesterday. It's a statement from the NFL that demostrates exactly what the moves were made for....cash flow for up-front costs of the new Stadium.

Garcia Bronco
09-17-2004, 11:25 AM
The NFL should be ashamed. The Broncos violated the very backbone of the NFL's system and the NFL tries to just sweep it under the rug and fine them a measly 3rd round pick. I agree with what Skip Bayless said this morning, they should have been fined at least 2 first round picks.

These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Br0ncos'* need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver."

Garcia Bronco
09-17-2004, 11:27 AM
It's over the same thing...those defered compensation plans for, primarily, Elway and Davis.

Must be nice knowing that the only reason for the rings came as a result of circumventing the cap.

"These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Broncos need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver."

Ebolapox
09-17-2004, 11:29 AM
"These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Broncos need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver."

shameless postwhoreing--

you shall be fined $950, to be placed in EBOLA's bank account by 12:00pm, september 18, 2004

-EB-

Garcia Bronco
09-17-2004, 11:30 AM
shameless postwhoreing--

you shall be fined $950, to be placed in EBOLA's bank account by 12:00pm, september 18, 2004

-EB-

Shite!!!

Ebolapox
09-17-2004, 11:31 AM
Shite!!!

I take paypal too, dawg

-EB-

Garcia Bronco
09-17-2004, 11:32 AM
Whew!

Mark M
09-17-2004, 11:34 AM
These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Br0ncos'* need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver."

And how is that NOT cheating? Please ... tell me, using the definition I posted earlier, how that does NOT qualify as cheating the system?

MM
~~:shrug:

Mark M
09-17-2004, 11:36 AM
Again: why is this thread about Lamar? Dont we already have 6-8 of those already. This is about the Bronc0s cheating.

Because some people's hatred for the Chiefs front office can be interjected into any discussion about money and football.

It's similar to Duhnise linking anything remotely political to Bush.

Both parties need a scapegoat for their frustrations.

MM
~~:shrug:

Ebolapox
09-17-2004, 11:36 AM
Whew!

:thumb:

-EB-

ROYC75
09-17-2004, 11:39 AM
I'm still not convinced that there is still not more than meets the eye here.

Could there be more and the NFL doesn't want to start shameless scandal about 2 SB wins. It would taint the NFL for sometime to know that 4 teams might of got cheated out of a SB ?

Garcia Bronco
09-17-2004, 11:40 AM
And how is that NOT cheating? Please ... tell me, using the definition I posted earlier, how that does NOT qualify as cheating the system?

MM
~~:shrug:

It might be "cheating" but based on the NFL's own statement...there was no competative advantage on the field. I understand that people are having fun with this, but it needs to be said. It was a cash flow issue to build a stadium to be able to compete in the NFL.

KCTitus
09-17-2004, 11:40 AM
Because some people's hatred for the Chiefs front office can be interjected into any discussion about money and football.

There's a lesson here, boys and girls, dont be a hater.

cdcox
09-17-2004, 11:40 AM
These agreements were plainly designed to help the club cope with seasonal cash flow problems exacerbated by the Br0ncos'* need to fund front-end expenditures associated with development of the new stadium in Denver."


Good to see you getting into the habit of putting the * next to the Br0ncos*. However, you left off the footnote:

*violated the salary cap during their championship seasons.

ROYC75
09-17-2004, 11:43 AM
Ok, so what you are saying is it was legal, then they changed it to keep it legal and somehow it wasn't legal but in the end it was wrong and wasn't cheating which means the NFL is wrong but you still get fined for it ?

:shake:

cdcox
09-17-2004, 11:44 AM
It might be "cheating" but based on the NFL's own statement...there was no competative advantage on the field. I understand that people are having fun with this, but it needs to be said. It was a cash flow issue to build a stadium to be able to compete in the NFL.

Golly, gee, do you really think the league is going to come out and say that the cheating rendered a competitive advantage on the field for a Superbowl champ? In case you haven't noticed, the NFL will go to some lengths in order to protect their image.

Mark M
09-17-2004, 11:49 AM
It might be "cheating" but based on the NFL's own statement...there was no competative advantage on the field. I understand that people are having fun with this, but it needs to be said. It was a cash flow issue to build a stadium to be able to compete in the NFL.

I see ... so, they only cheated so they could get a new stadium and more money. Of course, they would never, ever think about spending that money on, say, bonuses for players they couldn't otherwise afford, would they?

Or are they cheap bastards only interested in making money, just like the Chiefs?

MM
~~;)

Braincase
09-17-2004, 11:51 AM
The Broncos have shamed their fans and the entire AFC West. I say liquidate the entire franchise. We'll let other franchises draft the fans of the former Broncos. With the first pick of the 2004 Former Bronco Fan Draft, the Arizona Cardinals select Taco John. With the second pick, the San Diego Chargers select Garcia Bronco...

Garcia Bronco
09-17-2004, 12:32 PM
Golly, gee, do you really think the league is going to come out and say that the cheating rendered a competitive advantage on the field for a Superbowl champ? In case you haven't noticed, the NFL will go to some lengths in order to protect their image.

Perhaps the shots came from the grassy knoll...Look..that's their statement...that's what we have to go on.

jspchief
09-17-2004, 12:36 PM
First of all, Garcia's blind homerism makes me want to throw up..or kill someone.

Hey! I had to steal money to feed my kids...please ignore the fact that beforehand I spent my grocery money on booze and cigs. If it had nothing to do with the players salaries, why the f*ck is it a salary cap violation?

Two things are evident here.
1. The Donkey championships are tainted
2. The NFL is trying to sugar-coat this because the "best pro sports organization in the world" doesn't want a smear on it's resume.

KCWolfman
09-17-2004, 12:37 PM
It might be "cheating" but based on the NFL's own statement...there was no competative advantage on the field. I understand that people are having fun with this, but it needs to be said. It was a cash flow issue to build a stadium to be able to compete in the NFL.
I wonder why little towns like Jacksonville and Green Bay dont cheat more as they must have serious cash flow issues.

Garcia Bronco
09-17-2004, 12:56 PM
I wonder why little towns like Jacksonville and Green Bay dont cheat more as they must have serious cash flow issues.

Jax came into the league with a new Stadium in 95ish...and Green Bay made only enhancements to Lambeau. Different situations. I get your point however. Truth is KC...I have know idea what the state was of the other 29 teams at that time or at anytime. I don't even know what the Broncos' problem were...but according to a released statement from the NFL....this issue had to do with a cash flow problem for up-front costs of a new stadium. This shows that there was no competitive advantage on the field. It's all about up front money. We didn't sign "extra" players to whoop you. They also said that the Broncos have been completely agreeable to the settlement. That should be enough for you.

ROYC75
09-17-2004, 01:16 PM
Jax came into the league with a new Stadium in 95ish...and Green Bay made only enhancements to Lambeau. Different situations. I get your point however. Truth is KC...I have know idea what the state was of the other 29 teams at that time or at anytime. I don't even know what the Broncos' problem were...but according to a released statement from the NFL....this issue had to do with a cash flow problem for up-front costs of a new stadium. This shows that there was no competitive advantage on the field. It's all about up front money. We didn't sign "extra" players to whoop you. They also said that the Broncos have been completely agreeable to the settlement. That should be enough for you.


So exactly which year was it ? Before or after the SB wins ?

cdcox
09-17-2004, 01:33 PM
[QUOTE=Garcia Bronco]They also said that the Broncos have been completely agreeable to the settlement. QUOTE]

Of course they are! They won 2 Super Bowls by thier shannahanagins! Remember, they intentionally hid this from the league. They should have their titles stripped. Who wouldn't be happy to give up a couple of 3rd round draft choices.

Pitt Gorilla
09-17-2004, 02:25 PM
I sure am glad Pat Bowlen wants to remove riff-raff from the NFL.

The bastard has to be rich and pay someone to shave him, because no human with a soul would be able to look in the mirror to shave after the BS he sells.That's awesome. Rep.

Garcia Bronco
09-17-2004, 02:26 PM
[QUOTE=Garcia Bronco]They also said that the Broncos have been completely agreeable to the settlement. QUOTE]

Of course they are! They won 2 Super Bowls by thier shannahanagins! Remember, they intentionally hid this from the league. They should have their titles stripped. Who wouldn't be happy to give up a couple of 3rd round draft choices.

Until you..come up with proof that the NFL lied in their statement..this is a dead issue.

Garcia Bronco
09-17-2004, 02:28 PM
So exactly which year was it ? Before or after the SB wins ?

I don't know Roy. The only information I have is what came out of the NFL.com write up.

ROYC75
09-17-2004, 02:50 PM
I don't know Roy. The only information I have is what came out of the NFL.com write up.

What year was it the stadium issue came up when he needed the cash ?

The article says 96 - 98 I think. If it was 96, it could affect the cap depending on what contracts were restructured prior to the resturcture in question.

Again, if it was 97, same as 96 .

If it was 98.... slim chance it could have.

Again, the NFL and the article leave alot of info out.... why ? No telling , who knows but the NFL and Denver front office personel.

ROYC75
09-17-2004, 04:23 PM
Don't know if this has been mentioned yet.....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1883419

Around the league


Maybe now, with the sanctions levied against the Denver B roncos on Thursday for circumventing NFL salary cap rules, people will pay a little more attention to Oakland Raiders owner Al Davis, huh? Yeah, we know, it's easy to dismiss Al and some of his rants, convenient to suggest that he has lost a little off his fastball and is just an ornery and bitter old guy who likes to hear himself whistling in the dark. But it was Davis who first brought to public light contentions that Denver had flaunted the cap rules, and who termed the B roncos "cheaters," which is precisely what they turned out to be.


For those of you residing in a cave, or maybe dodging hurricanes, the Broncos organization was fined $950,000 by the league, and ordered to forfeit a third-round pick in the '05 draft, for cap violations that occurred 1996-98. It marked the second time in three years that the Broncos were deemed culpable of cap shenanigans, and seemed to validate the charges made by Davis, most of which were ignored at the time. Seems that once again Denver is getting off pretty light. Five years ago, the Pittsburgh Steelers lost a third-round pick after the team self-reported itself for a cap violation that involved an illegal incentive in the contract of offensive lineman Will Wolford, a deal that paid him extra if he was forced to move from guard to tackle. We note, at the risk of redundancy, that Pittsburgh turned itself into the league when it discovered the violation. But from the Broncos, who have been rumored for years to skirt cap rules, there was no such confession. Instead, it took a 20-month investigation by the Management Council, the league's labor branch, to flesh out the Broncos indiscretions.


In his Thursday statement, owner Pat Bowlen even conceded the cap inventiveness by his team was "brought to my attention" by the league. There was no comment from major domo/head coach Mike Shanahan, who oversees everything but the shuffling of paper clips in the Denver front office. It says here that, for a second violation, the Broncos got off with little more than a wrist-slap. Then again, that isn't too surprising, given that Bowlen is such a power broker in the league, serves on key committees, and is viewed as pretty cozy with commissioner Paul Tagliabue. But with the two cap penalties, and the court case earlier this year in which it appears that Bowlen tried an end run around former Broncos owner Edgar Kaiser on a potential stock sale, some of the bloom is off the rose. There's an old adage that you can make numbers do just about anything you want them to and, when it came to salary cap matters, Bowlen and his lieutenants apparently believed the axiom. No revelation yet, beyond rumor, as to the players and the agent involved in the deceit. But the agent agreed to pay $100,000 to a charity to avoid acknowledging guilt. In the agent world, where profit margins are a lot smaller than you think, $100,000 is a lot of money, and so it had to be a big-name guy. And why should the league and, more important, the NFL Players Association, allow the agent to walk away unstained (albeit poorer) if he was caught red-handed. Uh, probably because the agent is a heavy hitter and the NFLPA always goes lighter on those guys.


Once again, kudos to Al Davis for outing a franchise that likes to pretend it's squeaky clean. And this final thought: Had it been the Raiders who committed the cap fraud, would Davis' team have escaped with such benign sanctions? Cap circumvention, as Davis has reiterated, strikes at the integrity of the league and is a major indiscretion.


Pittsburgh called the league and reported there and Denver waited , hoping to hide it or at least it may go unnoticed.

Am I reading this right ...Is Bowlens speaking this about getting off easy or the writer ?

Calcountry
09-17-2004, 04:52 PM
Is anyone really suprised that the Dever Bronco's* did this?


*violated the salary cap during their championship seasons.
Hey Rat is a great coach. :shake:

whoman69
09-17-2004, 06:18 PM
I sure am glad Pat Bowlen wants to remove riff-raff from the NFL.

The bastard has to be rich and pay someone to shave him, because no human with a soul would be able to look in the mirror to shave after the BS he sells.
I don't believe that. If he gets rid of the riff raff, who will he hang around with. I also can't believe he'd back a policy that would get himself kicked out of the league.

Rain Man
09-17-2004, 06:22 PM
Raise your hand if you think that John Elway was really playing for the league minimum those last few years.


I thought so.

Mr. Laz
09-17-2004, 06:36 PM
Hicks, Woods and Wesley.
all of them already on the team ... all on a defense that has sucked for the last 3 years.

we didn't upgrade ... we maintained.


when you make 20+ million ... have cap room ... have the leagues worst defense ... you should do much more than maintain.

Ugly Duck
09-17-2004, 09:45 PM
it was Al Davis who first brought to public light contentions that Denver had flaunted the cap rules, and who termed the B roncos "cheaters," which is precisely what they turned out to be.

Once again, kudos to Al Davis for outing a franchise that likes to pretend it's squeaky clean. C'mon now, you guyz..... credit where credit is due. Say you love Him now!

Associated Press
NEW YORK -- The Denver (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=den)Broncoz have been fined $950,000 and will lose their third-round pick in next year's NFL draft for circumventing the salary cap between 1996-98.

stevieray
09-17-2004, 11:56 PM
all of them already on the team ... all on a defense that has sucked for the last 3 years.

we didn't upgrade ... we maintained.


when you make 20+ million ... have cap room ... have the leagues worst defense ... you should do much more than maintain.


They were all FA that we resigned. On a defense coached by GREG ROPBINSON.

you shouild do much more than expect the worse and give gun more of a benefit of the doubt than ONE game.

not surpising, you've done this since you've been here.