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FloridaChief
09-17-2004, 01:15 AM
Hunt answers cynics on stadium funding

By KEVIN MURPHY The Kansas City Star

Chiefs owner Lamar Hunt said Thursday that passing a sales tax to upgrade Arrowhead Stadium would require answering critics who think the team should pay for the work.

Voters in the Kansas City area will be asked Nov. 2 to approve a quarter-cent sales tax to pay for $180 million in construction at Arrowhead Stadium, with a similar amount for Kauffman Stadium. Arts projects also would be funded.

The Chiefs had a profit of $24 million last year and have a value of $709 million, according to a Forbes magazine report this month.

“I know there is a cynicism that says, ‘Oh, if the Chiefs are making money, why should we help?' ” Hunt said in an appearance Thursday before the Kansas City Rotary Club at the Arrowhead Club. “The fact is, this is a public facility. The Chiefs only play 10 games a year here.”

Arrowhead and Kauffman are owned by Jackson County. Hunt alluded to other events scheduled at Arrowhead this fall, such as Wizards soccer games, the Billy Graham crusade and the Big 12 Conference championship football game.

Hunt, who said he planned to take an active role in trying to pass the tax, urged Rotary members to explain to skeptics that Arrowhead's value goes beyond housing the Chiefs.

The tax would pay for new concession areas, restaurants, enlarged concourses, more rest rooms, utility upgrades, and a training and administrative building. The Chiefs would contribute $50 million.

Arrowhead opened in the early 1970s. “While this is a magnificent home and has been for 32 years, I think you can appreciate that a house needs refurbishing after 32 years,” Hunt said.

Hunt said the team was not about to move if the tax measure failed. The team has 12 years left on its lease.

In addition to the Chiefs profitability and value, ticket prices may also be an issue with people, Hunt said in an interview Wednesday. The team's average ticket price of $67.26 ranks third in the National Football League, according to a survey released last week in Team Marketing Report, a Chicago research publication.

Hunt said: “We need to step back and think about the Chiefs coming to the middle of the range in ticket price.'' Hunt said he wrote a memo to that effect this week to Carl Peterson, Chiefs general manager.

The sales tax measure would raise more than $1 billion over at least 12 years. Voters in Jackson, Clay and Johnson counties would have to approve the tax for it to take effect, but it also will be on ballots in Wyandotte and Platte counties.

morphius
09-17-2004, 07:31 AM
Hunt said: “We need to step back and think about the Chiefs coming to the middle of the range in ticket price.'' Hunt said he wrote a memo to that effect this week to Carl Peterson, Chiefs general manager.

This is the most important line in the thing...

Mark M
09-17-2004, 07:36 AM
“The tax would pay for new concession areas, restaurants, enlarged concourses, more rest rooms, utility upgrades, and a training and administrative building. The Chiefs would contribute $50 million.

...

Hunt said: “We need to step back and think about the Chiefs coming to the middle of the range in ticket price.'' Hunt said he wrote a memo to that effect this week to Carl Peterson, Chiefs general manager.



Damn ... I thought Lamar was a cheap bastard.

So who is right -- BigRedChief and Wahzarus .... or the facts?

MM
~~:hmmm:

BigRedChief
09-17-2004, 07:49 AM
Hunt said: “We need to step back and think about the Chiefs coming to the middle of the range in ticket price.'' Hunt said he wrote a memo to that effect this week to Carl Peterson, Chiefs general manager.

It's a friggin bribe to get us for more money.

MM let me straighten you out on something. I have respect for Lamar. He has been a great owner. That doesn't mean I have to agree with every one of the teams financial decisions.

Mark M
09-17-2004, 07:56 AM
MM let me straighten you out on something. I have respect for Lamar. He has been a great owner. That doesn't mean I have to agree with every one of the teams financial decisions.

You can disagree all you want ... I have no issues with that at all. I've done it just as much as anyone else.

But calling them "cheap" is, IMHO, a flat-out lie, as is calling the desire to have lower ticket prices a "bribe."

It's simple economics -- if the stadium receives the rennovations it needs, then there will be no need to have higher ticket prices because revenue will increase.

If anyone votes down Bi-State2, then turns around and whines about the price of tickets, hot dogs, etc., they should be slapped and told to STFU.

MM
~~:arrow:

Brando
09-17-2004, 08:19 AM
Is there any chance that if the bi-state tax passes they will start using warmer water in the urinals?
Man that stuff is cold.

Iowanian
09-17-2004, 08:22 AM
So...........Lamar owns TWO franchises, whose home is provided by tax payers. He wants tax payers to fund the needed upgrades, and then is going to turn around and raise ticket prices again, because its a nicer stadium.

nice.

How much of the $59 upper deck ticket and $25 parking, and $6 beer goes back to the county or into the stadium?

Iowanian
09-17-2004, 08:27 AM
Is there any chance that if the bi-state tax passes they will start using warmer water in the urinals?
Man that stuff is cold.

You're not supposed to drink it.........

ptlyon
09-17-2004, 08:28 AM
I guess the way I look at it, if we are paying the third highest ticket prices, it is justified. Arrowhead is the best stadium in the NFL as regards to entertainment, even though we have yet to win a Championship in it.

Mark M
09-17-2004, 08:38 AM
So...........Lamar owns TWO franchises, whose home is provided by tax payers. He wants tax payers to fund the needed upgrades, and then is going to turn around and raise ticket prices again, because its a nicer stadium.

Um ... you might wanna re-read it. Lamar does NOT want to raise ticket prices. He wants them to be somewhere in the middle, not one of the top three most expensive.

MM
~~:)

Brando
09-17-2004, 08:40 AM
You're not supposed to drink it.........

Oh man...no wonder everyone looks at me so funny.

KCFalcon59
09-17-2004, 08:44 AM
You're not supposed to drink it.........

It's cheaper than buying a beer.

Mr. Laz
09-17-2004, 09:22 AM
Damn ... I thought Lamar was a cheap bastard.

So who is right -- BigRedChief and Wahzarus .... or the facts?

MM
~~:hmmm:
oh fvck you, rahtard.


the fact that we had cap room, had profit margin and still said we didn't have the money to add free agents this year is proof enough for me.



if Lamar Hunt we so concerned about ticket prices then why did he let them get that high in the first place?

htismaqe
09-17-2004, 10:08 AM
Some people here are ridiculous beyond comprehension.

The man comes out and SAYS BLATANTLY that ticket prices are too high.

Instead of saying "good" they say "it's a BRIBE".

:rolleyes:

htismaqe
09-17-2004, 10:11 AM
oh fvck you, rahtard.


the fact that we had cap room, had profit margin and still said we didn't have the money to add free agents this year is proof enough for me.



if Lamar Hunt we so concerned about ticket prices then why did he let them get that high in the first place?

FACT: the team made a profit
FACT: the team said we didn't have any money to sign free agents
FACT: the team didn't sign any high-profile free agents
FICTION: the team has cap room

Look, I'm just as upset that you that the team did nothing in the offseason, and I would still like to see McCardell and McKenzie in a Chiefs' uniform.

But I'm to going to let this die. You THINK (by way of compelling circumstantial evidence, I'll admit) that we have cap room. You do not KNOW they have cap room.

Brando
09-17-2004, 10:14 AM
It's cheaper than buying a beer.

That it is! Now it's just a matter of convincing the cheerleaders to drink directly from the bottle. :thumb:

Mark M
09-17-2004, 10:31 AM
oh fvck you, rahtard.


the fact that we had cap room, had profit margin and still said we didn't have the money to add free agents this year is proof enough for me.



if Lamar Hunt we so concerned about ticket prices then why did he let them get that high in the first place?
**** yourself, crybaby. :deevee: And get over yourself as well.

Did you ever stop to think that there is a reason they didn't make those moves?

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Lamar has shelled out over $50 million in bonuses the past few years (Priest, Trent, Tony, Barber, Holliday, Hall, Maz, Hicks, McCleon and others have been signed or re-signed).

Maybe it has to do with them not being "profile" guys, as DV puts it.

Maybe it's because the Chiefs have been burned by bad FA moves in the past and didn't see the need to add any more high-priced FAs.

The fact is, no one knows why. But for you and others to call Lamar "cheap" is ludicrous. The reason ticket prices went up is because the Chiefs need more revenue. It's just that simple. There simply aren't enough ways at the stadium to make money (i.e. more luxury boxes, concessions, etc.), so they have to find ways to generate more money, and the best way is through ticket sales. If you don't like the price of tickets, then don't buy them.

No matter what you or others say, running an NFL team is BUSINESS. The point of ANY BUSINESS is to make money. Operating in the red is just plain stupid. Sure, it'd be nice to spend hundreds of millions on signing bonues ... after all, that's worked so well for Dan Snyder, hasn't it?

What's even funnier is that, if KC did sign these players and they didn't work out, everyone would be saying how Carl shouldn't have signed them, that they are busts and how much of a waste of cap room the players are.

It's a lose/lose proposition with you and others, and your hatred of all things Carl and Co. prevent some of you from using rational, logical thought. Either that, or you really might wanna mix in some decaf.

MM
~~4321

beavis
09-19-2004, 10:28 PM
You do not KNOW they have cap room.
Very true. But when I look at teams like the Redskins who go out and sign whoever they damn well please, (and I am in no way saying we should be taking personel advice from Snyder) it really makes me wonder why we can't sign the big name free agents.

Logical
09-19-2004, 10:46 PM
Winning would do more to help pass this sales tax than any explanation. Get some talent and the rest would probably take care of itself. The way the Royals and Chiefs approach winning they probably do not deserve the investment or the public's trust.

stanleychief
09-20-2004, 06:13 AM
Winning would do more to help pass this sales tax than any explanation. Get some talent and the rest would probably take care of itself. The way the Royals and Chiefs approach winning they probably do not deserve the investment or the public's trust.
Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner.

Put a winning team on the field and nobody whines about $6 beers, $25 parking, $60 nosebleed seats. Play like we did on Sunday and nobody will pay for any of it. If Lamar hopes to get this tax passed by November, he better shake things up and get this team turned around proto. I think right now a lot of people feel 'duped' into believing the Chiefs would do something this year, and that doesn't settle well with them to see them do nothing in the offseason.

htismaqe
09-20-2004, 06:42 AM
Winning would do more to help pass this sales tax than any explanation. Get some talent and the rest would probably take care of itself. The way the Royals and Chiefs approach winning they probably do not deserve the investment or the public's trust.

I WHOLE-HEARTEDLY agree.

htismaqe
09-20-2004, 06:44 AM
Very true. But when I look at teams like the Redskins who go out and sign whoever they damn well please, (and I am in no way saying we should be taking personel advice from Snyder) it really makes me wonder why we can't sign the big name free agents.

You do realize the differences between Arrowhead and FedEx, right? Daniel Snyder can pay for players with REVENUE, whereas Lamar has to take money out of his pocket.

The Chiefs need to sign somebody like McCardell to give the fans some confidence. Pass bi-state2, build some skyboxes, and start using that money to build a real team.

BigRedChief
09-20-2004, 06:56 AM
You do realize the differences between Arrowhead and FedEx, right? Daniel Snyder can pay for players with REVENUE, whereas Lamar has to take money out of his pocket.



I disagree here. Lamar by his own admission in the article says he made 24 mil profit. Why do you think money is coming out of his pocket? Is it going to cut into his profit yes but he still won't be paying any money out of pocket.

Ari Chi3fs
09-20-2004, 07:26 AM
heh...looks like pretty poor timing to ask us for more cash... no way in hell if we are way under .500 that this town votes to give the Chiefs more ca$h.

BigChiefFan
09-20-2004, 08:41 AM
You do realize the differences between Arrowhead and FedEx, right? Daniel Snyder can pay for players with REVENUE, whereas Lamar has to take money out of his pocket.

The Chiefs need to sign somebody like McCardell to give the fans some confidence. Pass bi-state2, build some skyboxes, and start using that money to build a real team.
I understand your point, but those that actually have to foot the bill should give this some consideration. I'm all for making Arrowhead a nicer facility, but that is dependent on the Chiefs making some moves to put this team over the top. It's give and take and right now I'm upset with the Chiefs FO for doing more of the taking and not enough giving.

wolfpack0735
09-20-2004, 08:42 AM
i dont lve in the area that willbe paying for the sales tax but when i come to kc,which is alot, i willbe paying for it. part of me thinks its a great idea but a part of me thinks ifhunt dosent want to spend the money to upgrade the team like it should why bother?

htismaqe
09-20-2004, 10:20 AM
I disagree here. Lamar by his own admission in the article says he made 24 mil profit. Why do you think money is coming out of his pocket? Is it going to cut into his profit yes but he still won't be paying any money out of pocket.

I believe Daniel Snyder made a clean $115M in profit. There's no comparison.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-20-2004, 10:27 AM
that fact that our ticket prices are middle of the road is flawed, listening to 810 yesterday they stated our ticket prices are 3rd HIGHEST around the NFL!! Simply because they are factoring in that the prices include everyone elses luxury boxes...nice

htismaqe
09-20-2004, 10:39 AM
that fact that our ticket prices are middle of the road is flawed, listening to 810 yesterday they stated our ticket prices are 3rd HIGHEST around the NFL!! Simply because they are factoring in that the prices include everyone elses luxury boxes...nice

I think you need to read the article again.

Lamar said our ticket prices NEED to be middle-of-the-road...

In addition to the Chiefs profitability and value, ticket prices may also be an issue with people, Hunt said in an interview Wednesday. The team's average ticket price of $67.26 ranks third in the National Football League, according to a survey released last week in Team Marketing Report, a Chicago research publication.

Hunt said: “We need to step back and think about the Chiefs coming to the middle of the range in ticket price.'' Hunt said he wrote a memo to that effect this week to Carl Peterson, Chiefs general manager.

BigChiefFan
09-20-2004, 01:18 PM
I seriously doubt that the Chiefs are going to lower the price of tickets.

J Diddy
09-20-2004, 01:22 PM
I seriously doubt that the Chiefs are going to lower the price of tickets.
You never know :shrug:

BigChiefFan
09-20-2004, 01:28 PM
You never know :shrug:
They are saying it now to see the masses go out and get the issue passed, then they'll be able to waffle and justify the price increases because they will be paying some money to help refurbish Arrowhead. Talk is cheap.

J Diddy
09-20-2004, 01:30 PM
They are saying it now to see the masses go out and get the issue passed, then they'll be able to waffle and justify the price increases because they will be paying some money to help refurbish Arrowhead. Talk is cheap.
yes it is
why would hunt do that, his reputation is golden in KC?

tk13
09-20-2004, 01:30 PM
I disagree here. Lamar by his own admission in the article says he made 24 mil profit. Why do you think money is coming out of his pocket? Is it going to cut into his profit yes but he still won't be paying any money out of pocket.
You have no idea what you're talking about. The difference between the Redskins and Chiefs is almost as bad as between the Yankees and Royals....

BigChiefFan
09-20-2004, 01:33 PM
yes it is
why would hunt do that, his reputation is golden in KC?
It's self explanatory. I explained why in the post.

J Diddy
09-20-2004, 01:37 PM
It's self explanatory. I explained why in the post.

No you didn't

You didn't explain why Hunt would lie and potentially damage his reputation.

BigChiefFan
09-20-2004, 01:46 PM
No you didn't

You didn't explain why Hunt would lie and potentially damage his reputation.
This is EXACTLY what I said...They are saying it now to see the masses go out and get the issue passed, then they'll be able to waffle and justify the price increases because they will be paying some money to help refurbish Arrowhead.


Now maybe you should re-read Hunt's quote, it doesn't say anything concrete about lowering ticket prices it says that they should THINK about it. I might not calling him a liar you are. Here's what Hunt said...“We need to step back and think about the Chiefs coming to the middle of the range in ticket price.'' Hunt said he wrote a memo to that effect this week to Carl Peterson, Chiefs general manager.

Like I said that gives them plenty of room to squiggle.

J Diddy
09-20-2004, 01:48 PM
This is EXACTLY what I said...They are saying it now to see the masses go out and get the issue passed, then they'll be able to waffle and justify the price increases because they will be paying some money to help refurbish Arrowhead.


Now maybe you should re-read Hunt's quote, it doesn't say anything concrete about lowering ticket prices it says that they should THINK about it. I might not calling him a liar you are. Here's what Hunt said...“We need to step back and think about the Chiefs coming to the middle of the range in ticket price.'' Hunt said he wrote a memo to that effect this week to Carl Peterson, Chiefs general manager.

Like I said that gives them plenty of room to squiggle.


Um OK your right :rolleyes:

BigRedChief
09-20-2004, 01:54 PM
You have no idea what you're talking about. The difference between the Redskins and Chiefs is almost as bad as between the Yankees and Royals....

HUH? Teh Yankees spend 181 million. The Royals spend 45 million. The Chiefs and Redskins get to spend the same exact amount every year. No more. They can spend less but not more. It's called a salary cap. Baseball should try it.

Straight, No Chaser
09-20-2004, 02:06 PM
This is win-win for KC Metro sports fans.

Both stadiums are over due for upgrades (especially Arrowhead).
Anyone who sees Lamar's intentions as anything more than an act of benevolence is out of freaking touch. If you think, as Joe Chief fan, Lamar is getting over on you then visit the larger markets, go to a game, expeience the environment and then compare that to Arrowhead on game day. Consider yourself lucky Lamar wants to improve the stadium and lower the ticket prices.

Stay home, vote no, and beach about the Chiefs from your Barco-lounger.



--->

htismaqe
09-20-2004, 03:04 PM
HUH? Teh Yankees spend 181 million. The Royals spend 45 million. The Chiefs and Redskins get to spend the same exact amount every year. No more. They can spend less but not more. It's called a salary cap. Baseball should try it.

Did you forget about signing bonuses?

gblowfish
09-20-2004, 03:21 PM
Chiefs tickets will NEVER come down in price. NEVER NEVER NEVER. They never have, and never will. They may keep them at the current level, then wait for all the other NFL teams to raise their prices, so other cities can enjoy paying out the wazoo like we do. When the other cities catch up to us, then we'll probably be more in the middle of the pack. Tickets have increased from approx $16 to approx $75 ea since King Carl came to town. How many of you guys have made over 300 percent more per year since 1988?

BigRedChief
09-20-2004, 03:42 PM
Did you forget about signing bonuses?Why does that matter? Signing bonus's are part of the cap. Sure Lamar has to write a check right now for 10 mil to priest but it's spread out over the whole length of the contract. It's still a part of the "cap" dollars he has to work under. The Redskins can't just go buy players every year. Eventually they have to take the cap hit. That why the Chiefs and the Redskins have a level playing field in acquiring players. Now making profit thats another part of the NFL that is not balanced but we were discussing the Chiefs ability to put a team on the field that is competitive.

BTW I'm voting for the tax.

Logical
09-20-2004, 03:46 PM
Did you forget about signing bonuses?Signing bonuses are still part of the cap. They are just pro-rated over the years of the contract. That is still an even playing field in the NFL.

ENDelt260
09-20-2004, 03:52 PM
Chiefs tickets will NEVER come down in price. NEVER NEVER NEVER. They never have, and never will.

Untrue. They were cheaper in 99 than 98.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=97817

htismaqe
09-20-2004, 04:01 PM
Why does that matter? Signing bonus's are part of the cap. Sure Lamar has to write a check right now for 10 mil to priest but it's spread out over the whole length of the contract. It's still a part of the "cap" dollars he has to work under. The Redskins can't just go buy players every year. Eventually they have to take the cap hit. That why the Chiefs and the Redskins have a level playing field in acquiring players. Now making profit thats another part of the NFL that is not balanced but we were discussing the Chiefs ability to put a team on the field that is competitive.

BTW I'm voting for the tax.

Signing bonuses are still part of the cap. They are just pro-rated over the years of the contract. That is still an even playing field in the NFL.

There are several NFL owners, including Irsay, who vehemently disagree. Signing bonuses can be pro-rated against the cap, but they must be paid to the player IMMEDIATELY. This is not about the cap, this is about actual money. Irsay had to SELL ASSETS to pay Peyton Manning. Daniel Snyder will NEVER have to do that -- he can re-invest profits in his team.

ENDelt260
09-20-2004, 04:08 PM
And, of course, contracts can never be renegotiated.

Logical
09-20-2004, 04:58 PM
There are several NFL owners, including Irsay, who vehemently disagree. Signing bonuses can be pro-rated against the cap, but they must be paid to the player IMMEDIATELY. This is not about the cap, this is about actual money. Irsay had to SELL ASSETS to pay Peyton Manning. Daniel Snyder will NEVER have to do that -- he can re-invest profits in his team.
Until the Chiefs are no longer making a profit so could the Chiefs. This argument is silly for now.

One other thing Lamar's initial investment in the Chiefs was less than $50K, he has over $700 million in equity, he is a hell of a long way from spending any of his money based on a cash out position on the franchise. Dan Snyder on the other hand paid almost a billion for the Redskins, so he is a long way from no longer having a huge amount of cash sunk into the Redskins.

tk13
09-20-2004, 05:06 PM
HUH? Teh Yankees spend 181 million. The Royals spend 45 million. The Chiefs and Redskins get to spend the same exact amount every year. No more. They can spend less but not more. It's called a salary cap. Baseball should try it.
No, signing bonuses are paid up front. Snyder can spend 115-120 million easily every offseason paying people signing bonuses up front. I've talked about this all offseason. Snyder can sign an All-Star team on both sides of the football because he can put everything in signing bonuses that is guaranteed money... Snyder has much, much, much more room to screw around. If he makes a mistake here and there, it's no big deal. The Chiefs made 20 million dollars profit... that's practically one big FA, and like the Royals, if we screw up or something bad happens (look at all the injuries we've had), that's it, unless Lamar wants to take a loss of profit. I can understand people wanting him to do that, but personally, that's Lamar's decision, I don't expect him to not make a profit on his business.

htismaqe
09-22-2004, 12:39 PM
Until the Chiefs are no longer making a profit so could the Chiefs. This argument is silly for now.

One other thing Lamar's initial investment in the Chiefs was less than $50K, he has over $700 million in equity, he is a hell of a long way from spending any of his money based on a cash out position on the franchise. Dan Snyder on the other hand paid almost a billion for the Redskins, so he is a long way from no longer having a huge amount of cash sunk into the Redskins.

Like I said, people that currently OWN NFL TEAMS disagree with you. Of course, I'm sure your own in-depth experience with owning an NFL team fuels your argument, right?

whoman69
09-22-2004, 05:03 PM
I always think that the teams should have to put a portion of the funds for a new stadium, they are profiting from that new stadium. But on the other side of the coin, the Chiefs are not making as much profit as the sum being bantied about here.

Logical
09-22-2004, 05:25 PM
Like I said, people that currently OWN NFL TEAMS disagree with you. Of course, I'm sure your own in-depth experience with owning an NFL team fuels your argument, right?

Most of those people bought in and do not have the huge positive equity position of the Hunts. The Hunts just want the seats full and more money came in. Lamar has never been all that vested in winning, the 80s are proof of that to me. I think Lamar is a great man, but he is not motivated towards winning and never has been beyond filling the seats and his pockets.

ENDelt260
09-22-2004, 06:00 PM
I always think that the teams should have to put a portion of the funds for a new stadium

The tax would pay for new concession areas, restaurants, enlarged concourses, more rest rooms, utility upgrades, and a training and administrative building. The Chiefs would contribute $50 million.

BigRedChief
09-23-2004, 06:14 AM
Most of those people bought in and do not have the huge positive equity position of the Hunts. The Hunts just want the seats full and more money came in. Lamar has never been all that vested in winning, the 80s are proof of that to me. I think Lamar is a great man, but he is not motivated towards winning and never has been beyond filling the seats and his pockets.

I disagree. I don't think Lamar is just about winning. But supposely we have 6 mil on the table we could have used to bring someone in here and didn't. So on the surface it looks like they wanted to keep the 6 mil in their pocket instead of out on the field. I have disaggreed with some of their off season moves but at least they were making moves. Spending all of their cap dollars. This is the first time off season I felt that they were not trying their best. Another episode like this and I may be swayed to a "vlad" way of thought.