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Kraut
09-17-2004, 04:36 AM
Ready, Aim,
Fire . . .
Hit Foot
Has John Kerry given up trying to suck up to gun-owning America?
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BY KIMBERLEY A. STRASSEL
Friday, September 17, 2004 12:01 a.m. EDT

The political class was busy this week trying to figure out why, after months of sucking up to the gun-owning public, John Kerry tossed aside all his hard work and condemned the end of the "assault" weapons ban. Was it a play for the soccer moms? Were his advisers on a coffee break?

There is another possibility, one that even as I write millions of rural Americans are praying is the correct answer. Perhaps John Kerry has given up trying to pretend he's one of them.

Ever since Al Gore had the powder wrung out of him in key electoral states by the National Rifle Association, Democrats have been trying to neutralize the gun issue. And no one has worked harder than Mr. Kerry. Nearly every newspaper in America has featured him posed, gun in hand, orange safety vest at the ready, preparing to squeeze off a round for the history books. His stump speech is aimed at buttering up hunters and gun owners, and just last week his campaign declared: "John Kerry's opponents are worried because he's the first Democratic candidate to support Second Amendment gun rights and to be an avid hunter."

Now, Lyndon Johnson, who used to shoot deer on his Texas ranch from a Lincoln convertible, would undoubtedly take issue with this claim. But John Kerry's problem is bigger than dead presidents. Nobody alive is buying his act, either, and he has only himself to blame.
Watching someone try to be something he isn't is always embarrassing, but there's something particularly painful about watching Mr. Kerry try to convince you that you'd want him in your duck blind for eight hours. Certain elites still believe that all you have to do to fit in with "country folk" is put on a flannel shirt and gush about firearms. But none of that counts for much if you still don't know a gun rack from an art installation.
And Mr. Kerry has trouble on that count. Take, for instance, a July interview in which he was asked what kind of hunting he preferred. Here was our Nantucket Natty Bumppo's response: "Probably I'd have to say deer. . . . I go out with my trusty 12-gauge double-barrel, crawl around on my stomach."

Now, let's admit that hunters can do some silly things. They climb up trees and go numb sitting still for hours. They tramp across nasty terrain. They drink too much beer and pass out in their tents and then later lie to their buddies that they missed the biggest buck in [you fill in the state] by only half an inch. But most have learned that lying with one's face in the mud is not conducive to bagging a big one. Mr. Kerry seems to have confused his time in the Mekong Delta with his supposed many hunting trips.

His other credibility problem is his record. Guns have been a big voter issue for a long time, and there is no shortage of organizations on both sides of the debate to keep track of votes. Whether you ask the NRA or the Brady Campaign, the word on John Kerry is the same: He has voted for every gun-control bill in the Senate over the past 18 years.

That fact led to national snickering when Mr. Kerry was pictured in West Virginia brandishing a new shotgun that was a present from the United Mine Workers of America. One gun expert noted that in accepting the gun and taking it back to Massachusetts, Mr. Kerry could break certain gun laws (undoubtedly many of which he supports), at least one of which carries prison time. Oops.
The October edition of Outdoor Life will feature interviews with both presidential candidates. When asked about their favorite guns, President Bush responds: "My favorite gun is a Weatherby Athena 20 gauge." Mr. Kerry says (reminding us yet again where he was 35 years ago): "My favorite gun is the M-16 that saved my life and that of my crew in Vietnam. I don't own one of those now, but one of my reminders of my service is a Communist Chinese assault rifle." So Mr. Kerry's favorite gun is an "assault" rifle designed for war. Funny talk coming from a guy who just went ballistic over the end of the "assault" weapons ban.
This all explains why Mr. Kerry is getting shot down in his gun efforts. This past weekend, while interviewing potential voters at a Pennsylvania gun show, I asked several if Mr. Kerry's attempts to look gun-friendly had made an impression. Those attendees who didn't immediately bust out laughing or roll their eyes noted that it was the past 20 years that would matter when they entered the voting booth, not the past 20 months.
So here is a little advice from gun-owning America to you, John. Stop, please. Before you really do shoot yourself in the foot.

Source: http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110005632

jjjayb
09-17-2004, 06:03 AM
I've never hunted, but would anyone use a shotgun for deer hunting? And people like to say Bush is an idiot?

Duck Dog
09-17-2004, 07:12 AM
I've never hunted, but would anyone use a shotgun for deer hunting? And people like to say Bush is an idiot?


Yes some states are shotgun only. And some county's in certain states are shotgun only.

Slugs are used.

oldandslow
09-17-2004, 07:19 AM
I use a shotgun & slugs to hunt deer all the time. I own about 40 acres behind my house that is simply infested with deer. It is wooded and there are cornfields all around it. I have a small blind that I use and most deer that I shoot are within 15 - 25 yds.

Now, I don't know what Kerry does, but this opinion writer certainly did not know what she was talking about.

Radar Chief
09-17-2004, 07:22 AM
Yes some states are shotgun only. And some county's in certain states are shotgun only.


I didn’t know that.

Duck Dog
09-17-2004, 07:25 AM
Now, I don't know what Kerry does, but this opinion writer certainly did not know what she was talking about.

Which part are you talking about.

I think she nailed it.

Duck Dog
09-17-2004, 07:26 AM
I didn’t know that.


Illinois is, and more than half of Minnesota. I'm sure there are more.

oldandslow
09-17-2004, 07:29 AM
Probably I'd have to say deer. . . . I go out with my trusty 12-gauge double-barrel,

I thought she was making fun of Kerry for hunting deer, lying down on his belly, with a shotgun.

People do that. And it can be fruitful.

Radar Chief
09-17-2004, 07:29 AM
I use a shotgun & slugs to hunt deer all the time. I own about 40 acres behind my house that is simply infested with deer. It is wooded and there are cornfields all around it. I have a small blind that I use and most deer that I shoot are within 15 - 25 yds.


I knew that it’s not uncommon to use a shotgun, but here in Can’s Azz we generally pick up a high powered rifle, .243 cal or above.
Course archery and black powder are pretty big here also.

KCTitus
09-17-2004, 07:32 AM
I thought she was making fun of Kerry for hunting deer, lying down on his belly, with a shotgun.

People do that. And it can be fruitful.

Yeah, and some people catch large catfish with their bare hands...it's not exactly the norm or most common practice of catching catfish and therefore will not exactly ring true to a large segement of the fishing public.

oldandslow
09-17-2004, 07:32 AM
That is cause your flat and many of your shots will be long. When you are as close as I am, in hilly country you do not need a 30.06.

I also think that is why 30.30's are so popular in places like MO. In the hills, long range is not as important.

Duck Dog
09-17-2004, 07:33 AM
Probably I'd have to say deer. . . . I go out with my trusty 12-gauge double-barrel,

I thought she was making fun of Kerry for hunting deer, lying down on his belly, with a shotgun.

People do that. And it can be fruitful.


Yeah, some people do sneak deer. But it takes a real expert to be good at it.

I somehow don't see sKerry being that good at it. Especially with his trusty double-barrel.

I hunt about 80 day's a year. I can smell a liar (bullshitter) a mile away.

oldandslow
09-17-2004, 07:34 AM
Yeah, and some people catch large catfish with their bare hands...it's not exactly the norm or most common practice of catching catfish and therefore will not exactly ring true to a large segement of the fishing public.


KC-

I am not defending Kerry. But - it is VERY normal for people to use shotguns to hunt deer.

In fact, in Mass, I would bet that shotguns and black powder are the only legal means of harvesting deer.

oldandslow
09-17-2004, 07:35 AM
Yeah, some people do sneak deer. But it takes a real expert to be good at it.

I somehow don't see sKerry being that good at it. Especially with his trusty double-barrel.

I hunt about 80 day's a year. I can smell a liar (bullshitter) a mile away.

Duck -

Don't get me wrong. I do NOT believe Kerry is God's gift to the hunting world.

I am just saying that it is possible.

Chiefnj
09-17-2004, 07:40 AM
Mass is like NJ, deer hunting with only bow, shotgun, slug and muzzleloader. No rifle hunting for deer and no hunting on Sundays.

If he is hunting for deer in his home state he's likely using the shotgun he talked about.

Duck Dog
09-17-2004, 07:42 AM
Duck -

Don't get me wrong. I do NOT believe Kerry is God's gift to the hunting world.

I am just saying that it is possible.


I agree. It's possible. :)

KCTitus
09-17-2004, 07:42 AM
KC-

I am not defending Kerry. But - it is VERY normal for people to use shotguns to hunt deer.

In fact, in Mass, I would bet that shotguns and black powder are the only legal means of harvesting deer.


Hunting deer in Mass is much different than hunting deer in, say, Wyoming or other various parts of fly over country. I know a good many avid hunters here in VA, and Ive never heard any of them talk about hunting deer with a 12 guage.

I'll have to ask them about it this weekend...personally, Im not much of a hunter, but I do like to shoot skeet, and really wouldnt know all the intricacies of different hunting regulations in different states.

Duck Dog
09-17-2004, 07:43 AM
Mass is like NJ, deer hunting with only bow, shotgun, slug and muzzleloader. No rifle hunting for deer and no hunting on Sundays.

If he is hunting for deer in his home state he's likely using the shotgun he talked about.


Pennsylvania too and Maryland too.

Duck Dog
09-17-2004, 07:45 AM
I don't doubt he has used a shotgun to hunt deer.

I do doubt that he crawled around on his belly.

I do doubt that he used a side by side.

StcChief
09-17-2004, 07:50 AM
This is as bad as him holding a gun at a rally, he looked
scared just doing that.

Probably wondering if his gun control voters would see it.

Cochise
09-17-2004, 07:58 AM
When asked about their favorite guns, President Bush responds: "My favorite gun is a Weatherby Athena 20 gauge." Mr. Kerry says (reminding us yet again where he was 35 years ago): "My favorite gun is the M-16 that saved my life and that of my crew in Vietnam.

This tells you a lot. When asked a simple question, Bush gives an honest answer. Kerry reminds you he was in Vietnam.

Patriot 21
09-17-2004, 08:28 AM
I do doubt that he used a side by side.

Duck Dog nailed it, again. Lets just say I have been blessed to be around hunters/fishermen all my life, it IS my life. This is the first time in my entire life (46 yrs) thatI have heard of anyone refer to deer hunting with a side-by-side. Topwater or not. And Kerry is obviously a topwater.

As for the focus of the article; the writer nailed it. Kerry is not "one of us," (a common person, forget the hunting part.) He is the most phoney son-of-a-b!tch to be running for President in the history of this nation. Fortunately, us "common folk" are much more astute than he and his handlers have given us credit for! :thumb:

Cochise
09-17-2004, 08:37 AM
Someone mentioned it before, and I know that you don't do it, but what is the reason why you don't hunt deer with a side-by-side?

Chiefnj
09-17-2004, 08:39 AM
Full quote.

After his successful round of trapshooting Saturday (Kerry hit 17 of 25 targets), Kerry told a reporter he would rather have been hunting.

He was asked in the interview Sunday what kind of hunting he preferred.

“Probably I’d have to say deer. It’s tough, depending on where you are,” said Kerry.

“I go out with my trusty 12-gauge double-barrel, crawl around on my stomach. I track and move and decoy and play games and try to outsmart them. You know, you kind of play the wind. That’s hunting,” said Kerry, whose manner was relaxed as he spoke on the final day of an excursion along the scenic upper Mississippi that he seemed to take some relish in.

Patriot 21
09-17-2004, 08:41 AM
Someone mentioned it before, and I know that you don't do it, but what is the reason why you don't hunt deer with a side-by-side?

For the most part, deer "shotguns" are very specialized equipment. Rifled barrels, scopes, or @ the very least custom sights, plus the fact that they are repeaters and are not limited to two shots.

A "double" as a deer gun would be a very ineffective killing tool, because of it's accuracy and lack of sighting mechanism. To the point that if that was your weapon of choice, it would be irresponsible when there are so many more efficient choices out there/ :thumb:

Radar Chief
09-17-2004, 08:58 AM
For the most part, deer "shotguns" are very specialized equipment. Rifled barrels, scopes, or @ the very least custom sights, plus the fact that they are repeaters and are not limited to two shots.

A "double" as a deer gun would be a very ineffective killing tool, because of it's accuracy and lack of sighting mechanism. To the point that if that was your weapon of choice, it would be irresponsible when there are so many more efficient choices out there/ :thumb:

And by “efficiency” I believe he means a quick clean kill, less suffering for the deer and less of a chance of losing your kill.

Patriot 21
09-17-2004, 09:01 AM
Radar Chief. Yes, exactly. I was assuming everyone would know what I meant by that, but I was probably wrong to make that assumption!:thumb:

Lightning Rod
09-17-2004, 09:16 AM
This is what my guy Michael Badnarik ( the one with no chance to win) says:

Gun Control Means Being Able to Hit your Target
If I have a "hot button" issue, this is definitely it. Don't even THINK about taking my guns! My rights are not negotiable, and I am totally unwilling to compromise when it comes to the Second Amendment.

Let me reiterate an axiom of my philosophy. Rights and privileges are polar opposites. A right is something that I can do without asking. A privilege is something that a higher authority allows me to do. It is utter nonsense for us to accept government permits in order to exercise an inalienable right. Allow me to point out some fallacies in the arguments frequently used by the anti-gun movement.

First, it is impossible for the Second Amendment to confer a "community right", because communities HAVE no rights. Individuals are real. Communities are abstract concepts. You can have individuals without communities, but you cannot have communities without individuals. Ergo, individuals must come first, and only the individuals that make up a community can have rights.

Second, the phrase "well regulated militia" is frequently misconstrued to mean:
a) lots of government regulations; and,
b) only the National Guard is allowed to carry guns.


It is necessary to understand the definitions common in America during the time of our war for independence. "Well regulated" used to mean "well prepared". Every man was expected to have a rifle, one pound of gun powder, and sixteen balls for his weapon. He was also expected to be ready to USE that rifle within sixty seconds of the alarm being sounded. Hence the term "minute man".

It is disingenuous for anyone to promote the argument that "militia" refers only to the National Guard in light of the fact that the Bill of Rights was ratified in 1791, and the National Guard wasn't formed until the early 1900's. This argument is totally without merit, unless you want to imply that our founding fathers were able to predict the future.

I sincerely believe that statistical evidence supports the idea that crime increases exponentially wherever gun control is instituted as the governing policy. Washington DC, New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles have the strictest gun control policies in the United States. The cities with the highest murder rates are Washington DC, New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles. It doesn't take a PhD to be able to draw the proper conclusion from this evidence. England and Australia have recently instituted strict gun control measures, and both countries have seen the statistics on violent crime quadruple. In contrast, I am told that the city of Kennesaw, Georgia passed a municipal ordinance that requires homeowners to have a firearm available. Home invasions have dropped to less than 10% of their original rate, indicating to me that criminals value their lives more than they value your property.

I have no doubt that members of the anti-gun crowd would be happy to offer statistical data which appears to contradict the numbers I have just mentioned. Even if they could, their alternate statistics are not enough authority to strip me of my inalienable right to keep and bear arms. My rights are non-negotiable. I don't care if someone else doesn't like it. I don't care if they toss and turn at night, anxiously worried about what I might do with my firearm. My rights are not predicated on whether or not you LIKE what I'm doing. You only have a complaint when I present a "clear and present danger", which is not the case if I have my firearm in a holster.

Repealing unconstitutional gun control laws will be one of my first priorities as President of the United States.

We have been griping for months about Bush, Kerry, even Nader perhaps we should set up a hypothetical debate on the issues and just cut and paste their ideas from their websites. I get to invite my guy since it was my idea.

Kraut
09-17-2004, 10:24 AM
Pennsylvania too and Maryland too.
My family lives in PA and you can use anything to hunt deer except semi auto weapons. Rifles are allowed during certain times of year. PA is one of the most pro gun states you will find in the US.

Kraut
09-17-2004, 10:29 AM
Full quote.

After his successful round of trapshooting Saturday (Kerry hit 17 of 25 targets), Kerry told a reporter he would rather have been hunting.

He was asked in the interview Sunday what kind of hunting he preferred.

“Probably I’d have to say deer. It’s tough, depending on where you are,” said Kerry.

“I go out with my trusty 12-gauge double-barrel, crawl around on my stomach. I track and move and decoy and play games and try to outsmart them. You know, you kind of play the wind. That’s hunting,” said Kerry, whose manner was relaxed as he spoke on the final day of an excursion along the scenic upper Mississippi that he seemed to take some relish in.
Nothing against you Chiefnj but Kerry is full of crap about deer hunting. My dad has been hunting all his life and he has never crawled on his belly looking for a deer. That would be the worst t hing in the world to do due to the fact that it would make too much noise. ANother thing he is full of it about is how he tracks them. Yeah right :rolleyes: The best way to hunt if you are alone is to find a spot and let them come to you. If your running around in the woods chances are you can hunt for days and not see one deer.

mlyonsd
09-17-2004, 10:36 AM
[QUOTE=Chiefnj]After his successful round of trapshooting Saturday (Kerry hit 17 of 25 targets)[QUOTE]

17 of 25? Man he sucks.

Radar Chief
09-17-2004, 10:39 AM
17 of 25? Man he sucks.

If I hadn’t picked up a shotgun in over 10 years and hit 17 of 25, I’d be pleased. ;)

Chiefnj
09-17-2004, 10:44 AM
Nothing against you Chiefnj but Kerry is full of crap about deer hunting. My dad has been hunting all his life and he has never crawled on his belly looking for a deer. That would be the worst t hing in the world to do due to the fact that it would make too much noise. ANother thing he is full of it about is how he tracks them. Yeah right :rolleyes: The best way to hunt if you are alone is to find a spot and let them come to you. If your running around in the woods chances are you can hunt for days and not see one deer.

Crawling on your belly would be odd, but people stalk/track deer all the time.

Brock
09-17-2004, 10:53 AM
If I hadn’t picked up a shotgun in over 10 years and hit 17 of 25, I’d be pleased. ;)

No kidding. I probably couldn't hit 10.

Kraut
09-17-2004, 10:55 AM
Crawling on your belly would be odd, but people stalk/track deer all the time.
I won't question you on the tracking thing cause I'm not a hunter and don't live in an area where you could hunt. But Kerry in my mind would have to be a world class hunter to be able to track and stalk a deer. But then again why are we debating his hunting skills.... :) who knows I guess it is something to talk about and better then the Vietnam thing.

mlyonsd
09-17-2004, 10:59 AM
No kidding. I probably couldn't hit 10.

Well then you both suck. :)

An interesting side note....I actually know a blind guy that went deer hunting with a rifle. Think about that the next time you're walking in the woods.

jcl-kcfan2
09-17-2004, 02:05 PM
I use a shotgun & slugs to hunt deer all the time. I own about 40 acres behind my house that is simply infested with deer. It is wooded and there are cornfields all around it. I have a small blind that I use and most deer that I shoot are within 15 - 25 yds.

Now, I don't know what Kerry does, but this opinion writer certainly did not know what she was talking about.


Shotguns granted...

How many times have you crawled on your stomach stalking the wascally wabbit..., errr, I mean deer?

Duck Dog
09-17-2004, 03:49 PM
Nothing against you Chiefnj but Kerry is full of crap about deer hunting. My dad has been hunting all his life and he has never crawled on his belly looking for a deer. That would be the worst t hing in the world to do due to the fact that it would make too much noise. ANother thing he is full of it about is how he tracks them. Yeah right :rolleyes: The best way to hunt if you are alone is to find a spot and let them come to you. If your running around in the woods chances are you can hunt for days and not see one deer.


I wasn't sure about the rifle part, I was refering to the hunting on sunday part. Unless that's been changed.

Duck Dog
09-17-2004, 03:52 PM
My family lives in PA and you can use anything to hunt deer except semi auto weapons. Rifles are allowed during certain times of year. PA is one of the most pro gun states you will find in the US.


It doesn't have anything to do with being pro gun. It's a terrain issue. Here in Minnesota the landscape is so flat, they fear the projectiles would travel too far.

But you can hunt w/ a rifle in northern MN.

PA is a damn fine hunting state! :thumb:

Duck Dog
09-17-2004, 03:53 PM
This is what my guy Michael Badnarik ( the one with no chance to win) says:

Gun Control Means Being Able to Hit your Target
If I have a "hot button" issue, this is definitely it. Don't even THINK about taking my guns! My rights are not negotiable, and I am totally unwilling to compromise when it comes to the Second Amendment.



He had me at hello. :)