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OldTownChief
09-17-2004, 10:39 PM
A couple days ago my wife was asking me why we can't just set off a nuke in the middle of a hurricane at sea to bust it up. I had no good answer for her except that I thought a nuke would be weak against such a force or we'd blow the hell out of Cuba. Today I was flipping through the channels and stopped on the NASA channel and caught the last part of that very discussion. They were saying that the heat from such a blast would actually give the hurricane strength.

Any thoughts?

PastorMikH
09-17-2004, 10:46 PM
I believe Archie F. Swin is.

the Talking Can
09-17-2004, 10:48 PM
acid is bad for you

OldTownChief
09-17-2004, 10:51 PM
acid is bad for you

wh..ooo whaaat?

OldTownChief
09-17-2004, 10:53 PM
acid is bad for you

Actually I'll take that as an "I don't know" or a "We could kill a fish"

Valiant
09-17-2004, 11:03 PM
Besides setting off a nuke and having the wind blow it towards civilizations, the radition would dispearse in the water. Could kill lots of coral reef life. By adding heat I can see how it would pick up steam and maybe create a bigger storm...

OldTownChief
09-17-2004, 11:22 PM
By adding heat I can see how it would pick up steam and maybe create a bigger storm...

That's what I was asking, I already know about the effect it could have on life and I know it is not a solution. I was only asking if the effect could add strength to the storm.

My blow the hell out of Cuba remark was just a bad joke.

arrowheadrocks
09-17-2004, 11:27 PM
Besides the obvious effects, nailing a hurricane with a nuke wouldnt reduce the storms strength. Reason being due to air pressure. A nuclear explosion creates a pulse of high pressure that propagates away from the explosion site and has no lasting effect on the barometric pressure of an area. Billions of tons of pressure would have to be moved into eye of a hurricane to just simply reduce its intensity a single category. There is simply no conceivable way of doing this.

OldTownChief
09-17-2004, 11:46 PM
Besides the obvious effects, nailing a hurricane with a nuke wouldnt reduce the storms strength. Reason being due to air pressure. A nuclear explosion creates a pulse of high pressure that propagates away from the explosion site and has no lasting effect on the barometric pressure of an area. Billions of tons of pressure would have to be moved into eye of a hurricane to just simply reduce its intensity a single category. There is simply no conceivable way of doing this.

But would it actually give it strength? I know nothing about natural disasters or their causes.

Chieficus
09-18-2004, 12:07 AM
B.S. Meteorology, Univeristy of Oklahoma, 2003...at your service...

Some basic starters: A hurricane is essentially a vertically stacked pressure system, a low at the surface and a high at the top. As long as it can maintain stability in its verticalness (is that a word???), and has plenty of heat energy (warm ocean water), then it is essentially a perfect latent heat machine (Latent heat is the heat energy given off from a change of state in a substance like water), and fuels itself further. Hence you get a monster of a storm. We don't know for sure, but its estimate that a good-size hurricane produces the same amount of energy during its life span that we use in America in a six-month period.

So here's what happens if you drop a nuke in it... you add even more energy to an already near-perfect energy producing machine. Now, if you drop a nuke elsewhere around the storm, you may potentially be able to change the weather pattern enough to weaken it...of course you couldn't do that close to inhabited land, so it would have to be in the middle of the ocean...since I'm a weather guy and don't know that much about nukes, I can only speculate that you could do no better than a temporary weakening...

Really, the best thing we could do would be to go chop off a chunk of glaicer about the size of Alaska and drop it in the water where the hurricane is to cool down the surface temps...but that ain't going to happen...

So, we just learn to live with them...

arrowheadrocks
09-18-2004, 12:11 AM
This FAQ page from the Atlantic Oceanographic and Metereological Laboratory would probably help answer your questions much better than I can in a few short sentences: AOML (http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/C5c.html)

Brando
09-18-2004, 12:18 AM
Instead of nuking the Hurricane can we nuke the south?

OldTownChief
09-18-2004, 12:18 AM
This FAQ page from the Atlantic Oceanographic and Metereological Laboratory would probably help answer your questions much better than I can in a few short sentences: AOML (http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/C5c.html)


Thanks for the link. I'm printing it out.

Braincase
09-18-2004, 06:29 AM
Instead of nuking the Hurricane can we nuke the south?

Start with south Denver, south Oakland...

bkkcoh
09-18-2004, 06:34 AM
Instead of nuking the Hurricane can we nuke the south?


I don't think there is much left to nuke after the hurricanes have gone through...

Skip Towne
09-18-2004, 06:35 AM
Just set up a really big fan to push it over to Denver.

Archie F. Swin
09-18-2004, 08:52 AM
With our luck, we would successfully detonate a nuke in the eye of a powerful hurricane, then the extreme updrafts within the storm would hold the toxic fallout aloft until the storm broke up over the SE U.S. So you'd have wind damage and flooding, seasoned with a pinch of radio activity.
All of the government damage surveyors would have to bring a geiger counter.

Mr. Laz
09-18-2004, 12:16 PM
a nuke would be silly ...


just because it's out in the ocean, doesn't mean there aren't things alive out there to kill.

not to mention increasing the world's water pollution problem



but i wonder if there could be a way to drop the temperature around or in a hurricane to weaken it?



it's probably just too dam big to make any temperature control feasible.

KCN
09-18-2004, 12:25 PM
Best ways to weaken a hurricane are to introduce mid-level dry air into it, cool the ocean waters ahead of it, or introduce upper level wind shear. I'm not sure a nuke could do any of those things, at least not on a scale large enough to impact a hurricane.

Speaking of hurricanes, I just got back from Mobile to watch Ivan make landfall. Pretty intense.

B2chiefsfan
09-18-2004, 12:33 PM
:hmmm:Turn a hurricane into a radioactive storm event. Yea.....that would do the trick! When it comes down to Mother Nature, I'd simply let it take it's course and get the hell out of the way.

go bowe
09-18-2004, 12:43 PM
:hmmm:Turn a hurricane into a radioactive storm event. Yea.....that would do the trick! When it comes down to Mother Nature, I'd simply let it take it's course and get the hell out of the way.you and a few million people on the gulf coast...

38yrsfan
09-18-2004, 12:55 PM
How about a bus of Bronco fans, between the wind and the hot air produced ...............

KCN
09-18-2004, 01:00 PM
you and a few million people on the gulf coast...

Yeah you shouldve seen traffic going into New Orleans on Thursday. I-10 eastbound was backed up from the LA/MS border to Beaumont, TX. Probably was backed up even further toward Houston but we left the interstate at that point. This is why I'd prefer to stay in a shelter if I were told to evacuate.

B2chiefsfan
09-18-2004, 01:03 PM
you and a few million people on the gulf coast...


My poor sister lives in Plant City, FL. Both Charley and Francis chase her out of her home. She went without power for over a week.:shake:

go bowe
09-18-2004, 01:06 PM
My poor sister lives in Plant City, FL. Both Charley and Francis chase her out of her home. She went without power for over a week.:shake:when my parents were alive, they lived in zephyrhills and i think their place got trashed by charley and then again by frances...

glad they didn't have to go through that...

Donger
09-18-2004, 02:20 PM
Some basic starters: A hurricane is essentially a vertically stacked pressure system, a low at the surface and a high at the top..

Are you saying that the air pressure at the top of a hurricane is greater than at the surface?

KCN
09-18-2004, 02:25 PM
High and low pressure is relative to the air around it at the same height.

KCN
09-18-2004, 02:26 PM
BTW I have some pretty cool video I shot in the eyewall of Ivan which I can upload if I ever figure out how to do it.

Donger
09-18-2004, 02:35 PM
High and low pressure is relative to the air around it at the same height.

Right, but in which direction is the pressure gradiant? Surely the air pressure at high altitude is less than at the surface, right?

Chiefs Pantalones
09-18-2004, 02:35 PM
A couple days ago my wife was asking me why we can't just set off a nuke in the middle of a hurricane at sea to bust it up. I had no good answer for her except that I thought a nuke would be weak against such a force or we'd blow the hell out of Cuba. Today I was flipping through the channels and stopped on the NASA channel and caught the last part of that very discussion. They were saying that the heat from such a blast would actually give the hurricane strength.

Any thoughts?

Your wife is an idiot.


When Keeping It Real Goes Wrong.;)

KCN
09-18-2004, 02:42 PM
Right, but in which direction is the pressure gradiant? Surely the air pressure at high altitude is less than at the surface, right?

The air in the upper levels is much lower than near the surface, but that pressure gradient is balanced by gravity (almost always). So the only pressure gradient that really matters is the horizontal one at each level.

Chieficus
09-18-2004, 03:53 PM
Right, but in which direction is the pressure gradiant? Surely the air pressure at high altitude is less than at the surface, right?

As KCN said, its relative...yes, the pressure is lower at higher altitudes, but lows and highs form not on the basis of a vertical pressure gradient but a horizontal one.

Imagine the hurricane as a big circle with a smaller cirlce in the center (the eye).

At the surface, say that the pressure at the eye is 8 units and at the egdge of the big ciricle 12 units. The eye is then obviously a low pressure center.

At the top, the pressure at the eye would be something like 5 units and on the outside of the circle would be 2 units. Thus the eye is a high pressure center.

If you have a good satellite loop of a nice hurricane, you can see the effect of this. In the N. Hemisphere, air moves cyclonically (counter-clockwise) around a low and anticyclonically (clockwise) around a high (around normal highs and lows at least). When you watch the loop, you'll see the bulk of the clouds spinning cyclonically, but there will be some thinner cloud bands that are being expelled from the storm at the top spinning anticyclonically...

It's really quite cool...at least I think so... :)

Rain Man
09-18-2004, 04:41 PM
I was thinking about a different approach other than a nuke. I was thinking that if we got everyone in the U.S. to take a deep breath and blow real hard to the east, it might push the hurricane out into the Atlantic.