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BigRedChief
09-18-2004, 09:51 AM
I know this was dicussed earlier but I can't find the thread now.

I think they should have an * beside their Super Bowl titles. No competitive advantage was gained..my ass. Why are you even fining them or taking away draft picks if there was no competitive advantage gained.

Part of an article from a Denver columinst:

mark kiszla
Shame part of Broncos' shine
By Mark Kiszla
Denver Post Staff Columnist
The diamonds in their Super Bowl rings still shine. But the NFL championships won by the Broncos have been tarnished.
After a 20-month investigation, the league ruled Thursday that Denver circumvented salary-cap rules from 1996-98, a crucial period in franchise history when the Broncos won back-to-back world titles and earned taxpayer approval for a new $400 million stadium.
The punishment for the Broncos was a fine of nearly $1 million and forfeiture of a third-round draft choice.
The shame of getting caught should be far greater.
While expressing contrition, franchise owner Pat Bowlen took zero responsibility for the embarrassing transgressions, and claimed the Broncos gained no competitive advantage by persuading players to defer salary at a time he was cash-strapped and pushing hard for construction of a stadium that would line his pockets with fresh money.
That's a cop-out by Bowlen. Denver cheated.

Tombstone RJ
09-18-2004, 10:19 AM
I know this was dicussed earlier but I can't find the thread now.

I think they should have an * beside their Super Bowl titles. No competitive advantage was gained..my ass. Why are you even fining them or taking away draft picks if there was no competitive advantage gained.

Part of an article from a Denver columinst:

mark kiszla
Shame part of Broncos' shine
By Mark Kiszla
Denver Post Staff Columnist
The diamonds in their Super Bowl rings still shine. But the NFL championships won by the Broncos have been tarnished.
After a 20-month investigation, the league ruled Thursday that Denver circumvented salary-cap rules from 1996-98, a crucial period in franchise history when the Broncos won back-to-back world titles and earned taxpayer approval for a new $400 million stadium.
The punishment for the Broncos was a fine of nearly $1 million and forfeiture of a third-round draft choice.
The shame of getting caught should be far greater.
While expressing contrition, franchise owner Pat Bowlen took zero responsibility for the embarrassing transgressions, and claimed the Broncos gained no competitive advantage by persuading players to defer salary at a time he was cash-strapped and pushing hard for construction of a stadium that would line his pockets with fresh money.
That's a cop-out by Bowlen. Denver cheated.

Mark Kizla is a sports beat writer at the Denver Post. His reputation (and contempt by many like me) is due to his doom and gloom style of reporting on the Denver Br0nc0s. He's the "Devil's Advocate" of the media in Denver.

One thing you have to acknowledge is that Denver's news papers are at the very least, extremely fair in reporting about the Br0nc0s. However, I find the media in Denver to be extremely harsh on the Br0nc0s. The media in Denver holds the Br0nc0s to the highest standards. Whatever Bowlen did to deferr, he has admitted to it, but not taken personal responsbility.

As for the competitive advantage, if keeping Elway meant deferring payments, without interest (thank you kindly John), then that is a backdoor to circumventing the salary cap because it cleared more room to sign other FA's.

See, I too can be an objective fan. Even though I give you chiefy fans hell, when I feel like it... :p

Bowser
09-18-2004, 10:34 AM
Mark Kizla is a sports beat writer at the Denver Post. His reputation (and contempt by many like me) is due to his doom and gloom style of reporting on the Denver Br0nc0s. He's the "Devil's Advocate" of the media in Denver.

One thing you have to acknowledge is that Denver's news papers are at the very least, extremely fair in reporting about the Br0nc0s. However, I find the media in Denver to be extremely harsh on the Br0nc0s. The media in Denver holds the Br0nc0s to the highest standards. Whatever Bowlen did to deferr, he has admitted to it, but not taken personal responsbility.

As for the competitive advantage, if keeping Elway meant deferring payments, without interest (thank you kindly John), then that is a backdoor to circumventing the salary cap because it cleared more room to sign other FA's.

See, I too can be an objective fan. Even though I give you chiefy fans hell, when I feel like it... :p

Bet it hurt like a sumbitch to say it, though. Didn't it? :p

whoman69
09-18-2004, 10:37 AM
The Raiders won their SBs with spearing, late hits, assault, and a total lack of regard for the rules on the field. The Broncos won their SBs with Crisco, cut blocks and a total lack of regard for rules off the field. That makes the Raiders blue collar cheaters and the Broncos white collar cheaters. Is either method really better than the other?

Mile High Mania
09-18-2004, 10:47 AM
This is a CHIEFS' MESSAGE BOARD...

Take this stuff elsewhere. :)

Bowser
09-18-2004, 10:50 AM
This is a CHIEFS' MESSAGE BOARD...

Take this stuff elsewhere. :)

Clarity from a Donk fan! WTH is the world coming to? :D

Nice try at the dodge, tho!!

BigRedChief
09-18-2004, 10:57 AM
Giving the Donks crap about having to cheat to win is the highlight of my life...According to the donk fan all Chief fans live in double wide trailers, are alcholics, toothless and too stupid to know that being a donk fan is pure nirvana

Gaz
09-18-2004, 10:58 AM
How nice that I can stop giving credit to the Broncos for their Super Bowl victories.

How typical that Saint Bowlen denies any wrongdoing.

xoxo~
Gaz
Having a good day.

Mile High Mania
09-18-2004, 11:01 AM
You can place 100 *'s on there if you like... nothing will erase the memories, nor the fact they have have two titles.

stevieray
09-18-2004, 11:06 AM
You can place 100 *'s on there if you like... nothing will erase the memories, nor the fact they have have two titles.
who cares? They're tainted.

and you can come here seven days a week and disagree, but the truth remains the same.

BigRedChief
09-18-2004, 11:07 AM
Only because you had Elway. And go lucky with a 6th round pick. Do we need to talk about those really embarssing and humiliating loses in the Super Bowl? maybe finally getting a championship helps soothe the pain of those losses but they are still there.

Gaz
09-18-2004, 11:07 AM
Not erased…

Tainted.

That’s even better.

xoxo~
Gaz
Enjoying this more than is really decent.

Gaz
09-18-2004, 11:09 AM
First Down Elvis beat me to it.

Tainted.

It's a good word, isn't it?

xoxo~
Gaz
Grinning ear to ear.

Mile High Mania
09-18-2004, 11:10 AM
who cares? They're tainted.

and you can come here seven days a week and disagree, but the truth remains the same.

First off ... I didn't start the thread, just posting a reply. You seem to get way too bent out of shape with my posts sometimes.

Mile High Mania
09-18-2004, 11:15 AM
Only because you had Elway. And go lucky with a 6th round pick. Do we need to talk about those really embarssing and humiliating loses in the Super Bowl? maybe finally getting a championship helps soothe the pain of those losses but they are still there.

We can talk about those 3 losses as much as you like... the fact of the matter is that during my lifetime (since 1971), the Broncos have advanced to the SuperBowl 6 times. During that same pan of 33 years... the Chiefs have won a total of 3 playoff games.

So, yeah we can talk about the fact Denver is 2-4 overall in SuperBowls all ya like. Denver has lost more SuperBowls in my lifetime than the Chiefs have won playoff games.... which distinction would you be least proud of, eh?

Gaz
09-18-2004, 11:19 AM
Tainted.

La, la, la…

Tainted.

xoxo~
Gaz
Filing the Broncos rings away with the scab games.

Mile High Mania
09-18-2004, 11:19 AM
Tainted.

La, la, la…

Tainted.

xoxo~
Gaz
Filing the Broncos rings away with the scab games.


No effect, brutha.

BigRedChief
09-18-2004, 11:20 AM
We can talk about those 3 losses as much as you like... the fact of the matter is that during my lifetime (since 1971), the Broncos have advanced to the SuperBowl 6 times. During that same pan of 33 years... the Chiefs have won a total of 3 playoff games.

So, yeah we can talk about the fact Denver is 2-4 overall in SuperBowls all ya like. Denver has lost more SuperBowls in my lifetime than the Chiefs have won playoff games.... which distinction would you be least proud of, eh?

Losing like Buffalo did on a missed field goal or Tennesse's drive dying at the 1/2 yard line is an okay way to lose the super bowl. But youre teams were humiliated and exposed on a national level. If it means a humilitating defeat I'd rather the Chiefs not go to the Super Bowl at all

Mile High Mania
09-18-2004, 11:22 AM
Tainted.

La, la, la…

Tainted.

xoxo~
Gaz
Filing the Broncos rings away with the scab games.


You could use ....

Fabricated, manufactured, bought, purchased... just trying to help.

Mile High Mania
09-18-2004, 11:23 AM
Losing like Buffalo did on a missed field goal or Tennesse's drive dying at the 1/2 yard line is an okay way to lose the super bowl. But youre teams were humiliated and exposed on a national level. If it means a humilitating defeat I'd rather the Chiefs not go to the Super Bowl at all

Ah...ok.

:thumb:

Gaz
09-18-2004, 11:25 AM
You could use ....

Fabricated, manufactured, bought, purchased... just trying to help.

None of those convey the essence of filth, stain and corruption that I like to associate with Bowlen and his contaminated team.

I’ll stick with tainted, thanks.

xoxo~
Gaz
Going to lose interest before too long.

PunkinDrublic
09-18-2004, 11:32 AM
You know I hate it as much as the next chiefs fan seeing the donks get two Superbowl trophies. I believe the refs screwed us out of a touchdown and a field goal in the playoffs in 97. But having said that you eventually have to move on. Yes the donks used and continue to use illegal chop blocking schemes. Yes they got caught using illegal substances on their uniforms and yes they may have circumvented the salary cap illegally. But at the end of the day they still keep their two lombardi trophies and by still whining about the past we as chiefs fans look like a bunch of crybabies.

Mile High Mania
09-18-2004, 11:39 AM
You know I hate it as much as the next chiefs fan seeing the donks get two Superbowl trophies. I believe the refs screwed us out of a touchdown and a field goal in the playoffs in 97. But having said that you eventually have to move on. Yes the donks used and continue to use illegal chop blocking schemes. Yes they got caught using illegal substances on their uniforms and yes they may have circumvented the salary cap illegally. But at the end of the day they still keep their two lombardi trophies and by still whining about the past we as chiefs fans look like a bunch of crybabies.

You da' man, homer.


Deep down it does annoy me ... I love the fact that they look for those competitive edges and ways to dance on the line of right and wrong. Crossing it, is uncalled for though. That being said... they've been punished and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Hel'n
09-18-2004, 11:51 AM
Too bad Carl Peterson couldn't have been as creative!

Skip Towne
09-18-2004, 12:12 PM
I like * as well as Gaz likes tainted.

38yrsfan
09-18-2004, 12:28 PM
We can talk about those 3 losses as much as you like... the fact of the matter is that during my lifetime (since 1971), the Broncos have advanced to the SuperBowl 6 times. During that same pan of 33 years... the Chiefs have won a total of 3 playoff games.

So, yeah we can talk about the fact Denver is 2-4 overall in SuperBowls all ya like. Denver has lost more SuperBowls in my lifetime than the Chiefs have won playoff games.... which distinction would you be least proud of, eh?


Gee, a pretty convenient time frame there. While it has been a long dry spell for the Chiefs, in my lifetime they had some very successful seasons while the Broncos struggled to fill the locker room let alone the stands. Many Bronco fans try to make it sound as if the Chiefs are the worst team in pro ball history however they need to look at the W/L records a little closer. I

IMHO, it takes more of a person of character (loyalty is an admired trait) to be a Chiefs fan than for other teams loaded with bandwagon-fan-base baggage; Broncos, Cowboys, Yankees, Raiders, Lakers, etc - many fair weather fans who couldn't even name the players of their "favorite" except for those they see on a Viagra or antiacid commercial.

38yrsfan
09-18-2004, 12:33 PM
I believe the refs screwed us out of a touchdown and a field goal in the playoffs in 97.


Yes, that game in particular was painful to watch as the refs took that one away from the Chiefs. The Broncos shouldn't have advanced after that as the Chiefs were clearly the better team.

Mile High Mania
09-18-2004, 01:15 PM
Gee, a pretty convenient time frame there. While it has been a long dry spell for the Chiefs, in my lifetime they had some very successful seasons while the Broncos struggled to fill the locker room let alone the stands. Many Bronco fans try to make it sound as if the Chiefs are the worst team in pro ball history however they need to look at the W/L records a little closer. I

IMHO, it takes more of a person of character (loyalty is an admired trait) to be a Chiefs fan than for other teams loaded with bandwagon-fan-base baggage; Broncos, Cowboys, Yankees, Raiders, Lakers, etc - many fair weather fans who couldn't even name the players of their "favorite" except for those they see on a Viagra or antiacid commercial.

Convenient or not ... it is what it is. I was born 2 years after the Cheifs won the big one.

The Chiefs were 5-2 before MHM was born and 3-10 during my lifetime. It's just too bad that I wasn't around to experience the 60's, when the Chiefs were successful in the post season.

:p

whoman69
09-18-2004, 01:39 PM
None of those convey the essence of filth, stain and corruption that I like to associate with Bowlen and his contaminated team.

I’ll stick with tainted, thanks.

xoxo~
Gaz
Going to lose interest before too long.

I don't think that even tainted can get to the heart of it, Gaz. There's got to be something deeper that emotes the stain on those Super Bowl victories. Infected, contaminated, no how about infested. Those victories sit like a ugly, infected, festering, puss filled cancer upon their reputation.

brent102fire
09-18-2004, 02:46 PM
The Broncos Front Office is genious! So they cheated and ended up winning a Super Bowl? How much money did the organization profit from winning the big game? I would bet it was millions of dollars. So they have to pay $900,000 in fines to make millions in profits from winning a Super Bowl. Makes since to me :hmmm:

Wile_E_Coyote
09-18-2004, 03:53 PM
fans of every other team in the NFL will be waiting for a Bronco fan to yell foul so they can pounce

Earthling
09-18-2004, 07:14 PM
I guess we'll just never know if they could have won it all without cheating... :)

Skip Towne
09-18-2004, 07:29 PM
So when is the sentencing hearing? I hope they get 99 years in the electric chair.

CHIEF4EVER
09-18-2004, 07:29 PM
I guess we'll just never know if they could have won it all without cheating... :)

I already know......







NOPE :p

Tombstone RJ
09-18-2004, 09:01 PM
I don't think that even tainted can get to the heart of it, Gaz. There's got to be something deeper that emotes the stain on those Super Bowl victories. Infected, contaminated, no how about infested. Those victories sit like a ugly, infected, festering, puss filled cancer upon their reputation.


speaking of infected, have you checked out your genitals lately? Denver won two straight SBs and now the league has decided that deferred payments (which the league rules did nothing to block) are all of a sudden "wrong."

Funny, the league is just now deciding this. Why is that? Possibly because the Broncos were following the rules, but they also had a more creative way of paying A COUPLE OF PLAYERS, namely John Elway and Terrell Davis. Two key players, yes.

I want to give Tags the big finger for all of a sudden deciding that, hey, they shouldn't have done that, even though the NFL Player's Union had no problem with deferred payments. :thumb:

cdcox
09-18-2004, 09:07 PM
Denver* won two straight SBs and now the league has decided that deferred payments (which the league rules did nothing to block) are all of a sudden "wrong."


If the defered payments were perfectly okay, then why were these agreements undisclosed? Every contract must be submitted to the league to ensure that the team is under the salary cap. Hidden compensation agreements is a clear indication that Denver* knew that they were illegal.

* violated the salary cap in their championship seasons.

TEX
09-18-2004, 09:28 PM
This is the 2nd time they lost a draft pick for cheating... :hmmm:
The fines were simply slaps on the wrists - Well worth trying IMO. They get caught, pay a small fine, lose a few # 3 draft picks and win two Super Bowls in the process. Shoot, with this type of "punishment" why aren't more doing it?

J Diddy
09-18-2004, 09:36 PM
speaking of infected, have you checked out your genitals lately? Denver won two straight SBs and now the league has decided that deferred payments (which the league rules did nothing to block) are all of a sudden "wrong."

Funny, the league is just now deciding this. Why is that? Possibly because the Broncos were following the rules, but they also had a more creative way of paying A COUPLE OF PLAYERS, namely John Elway and Terrell Davis. Two key players, yes.

I want to give Tags the big finger for all of a sudden deciding that, hey, they shouldn't have done that, even though the NFL Player's Union had no problem with deferred payments. :thumb:

Why do I know that you REALLY want to give tags a big finger?

Tombstone RJ
09-18-2004, 09:37 PM
If the defered payments were perfectly okay, then why were these agreements undisclosed? Every contract must be submitted to the league to ensure that the team is under the salary cap. Hidden compensation agreements is a clear indication that Denver* knew that they were illegal.

* violated the salary cap in their championship seasons.

That is my point. The NFL Players Union had no problem with these deferred payments. Again, the Broncos didn't hide anything.

You can take your astrick and stick it up Peterson's @zz. After all, that is where your nose is...

jspchief
09-18-2004, 09:54 PM
Denver won two straight SBs and now the league has decided that deferred payments (which the league rules did nothing to block) are all of a sudden "wrong."

Funny, the league is just now deciding this. Why is that? Possibly because the Broncos were following the rules, but they also had a more creative way of paying A COUPLE OF PLAYERS, namely John Elway and Terrell Davis. Two key players, yes.

I want to give Tags the big finger for all of a sudden deciding that, hey, they shouldn't have done that, even though the NFL Player's Union had no problem with deferred payments. :thumb:

Oh. This is classic. Now the Donkeys are whining about unfair treatment because they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

You want to know why it took so long for the NFL to levy these penalties? Because the Donkos were trying to hide it. If anything, they are in bed with Tagliabue. They got the exact same punishment as Pittsburgh, but the Steelers actually turned themselves in. That greasy rat Bowlen made the NFL catch them. I guess it's the old adage...it's not cheating if you don't get caught.

Do you get a bad taste in your mouth every time you say Superbowl?

TheNextStep
09-18-2004, 10:01 PM
Here's what pisses me off about the whole thing: They claim that they what they did gave them no competitive advantage... and I say that's absolute bullshit. Go look at the papers from that time frame and ALL SAY that the Broncos were only able to sign Neil Smith to his first one year contract after restructuring John Elway's contract. The following year, they restructured Elway's contract again... which freed up the money for them to retain Neil Smith and Mark Schlereth.

We know, of course, that Elway's contract was one of the ones that got them into hot water in the first place.

But that's not a competitive advantage? Retaining two starters who you otherwise could not have afforded to keep is not a competitive advantage?

Kiss my ass it isn't a competitive advantage! What Denver did was to attack the integrity of the game by tilting the field in their favor in the arena of player acquisition/player retention.

And Bronco fans want to give Tagliabue the finger?

cdcox
09-18-2004, 10:01 PM
That is my point. The NFL Players Union had no problem with these deferred payments. Again, the Bronc0s* didn't hide anything.

You can take your astrick and stick it up Peterson's @zz. After all, that is where your nose is...

The Players Union would love for every NFL team to violate the cap every year. That would put more money in the players pockets. Of course they didn't have a problem with it.

Every report on this story says that the agreements between the Bronc0s* and the league were undisclosed. That means that the Bronc0s* were indeed hiding the fact that the payments were differed.

*violated the salary cap during their championship seasons.

jspchief
09-18-2004, 10:04 PM
Here's what pisses me off about the whole thing: They claim that they what they did gave them no competitive advantage... and I say that's absolute bullshit. Go look at the papers from that time frame and ALL SAY that the Broncos were only able to sign Neil Smith to his first one year contract after restructuring John Elway's contract. The following year, they restructured Elway's contract again... which freed up the money for them to retain Neil Smith and Mark Schlereth.

We know, of course, that Elway's contract was one of the ones that got them into hot water in the first place.

But that's not a competitive advantage? Retaining two starters who you otherwise could not have afforded to keep is not a competitive advantage?

Kiss my ass it isn't a competitive advantage! What Denver did was to attack the integrity of the game by tilting the field in their favor in the arena of player acquisition/player retention.

And Bronco fans want to give Tagliabue the finger?

Excellent post. The only finger Denver should be giving Tagliabue is the one on his taint as they suck him off.

Tombstone RJ
09-18-2004, 10:06 PM
Here's what pisses me off about the whole thing: They claim that they what they did gave them no competitive advantage... and I say that's absolute bullshit. Go look at the papers from that time frame and ALL SAY that the Broncos were only able to sign Neil Smith to his first one year contract after restructuring John Elway's contract. The following year, they restructured Elway's contract again... which freed up the money for them to retain Neil Smith and Mark Schlereth.

We know, of course, that Elway's contract was one of the ones that got them into hot water in the first place.

But that's not a competitive advantage? Retaining two starters who you otherwise could not have afforded to keep is not a competitive advantage?

Kiss my ass it isn't a competitive advantage! What Denver did was to attack the integrity of the game by tilting the field in their favor in the arena of player acquisition/player retention.

And Bronco fans want to give Tagliabue the finger?

Oh please you f**king crybabies.

How can any of this be a conspiracy on the Broncos part. I don't know how many contracts the piss-ant faiders have restructured the last few years to keep signing FA's.

Almost every team in the NFL does this. The Broncos didn't hide anything.

Keep believing that crap TNS.

How many contracts have the faiders restructered in the last few years?

cdcox
09-18-2004, 10:13 PM
The Broncos didn't hide anything.



I think you need to look up the meaning of "undisclosed".

jspchief
09-18-2004, 10:14 PM
Almost every team in the NFL does this. The Broncos didn't hide anything.



And how many of them have received punishments for it?

whoman69
09-18-2004, 10:15 PM
speaking of infected, have you checked out your genitals lately? Denver won two straight SBs and now the league has decided that deferred payments (which the league rules did nothing to block) are all of a sudden "wrong."

Funny, the league is just now deciding this. Why is that? Possibly because the Broncos were following the rules, but they also had a more creative way of paying A COUPLE OF PLAYERS, namely John Elway and Terrell Davis. Two key players, yes.

I want to give Tags the big finger for all of a sudden deciding that, hey, they shouldn't have done that, even though the NFL Player's Union had no problem with deferred payments. :thumb:
Of course the Players Union has no problem with it. It increases money going to the players. Anything that circumvents the cap would be ok for the players union. As for the NFL just hitting them now, its already been pointed out that they have previously been penalized for this before. The fact that so much time has passed is most likely a major reason that they were not penalized more harshly.
BTW, my nuts did itch for awhile after dating your sister. They are much better now. I had to burn the panties she gave me though.

TheNextStep
09-18-2004, 10:17 PM
Let me start off by telling you to shove that "crybaby" stuff right up your ass. I've shown restraint and respect for the OM forum by staying completely out of this conversation because I know you're up in arms about it over there. Over here, I will show no such restraint and I will speak my mind on the matter. If you don't like, go cry to somebody else.

With that said...

I am not saying that the act of restructuring a contract is a circumvention of the salary cap. I'm saying the following:

1. It is a matter of PUBLIC RECORD that the NFL fined the Broncos and docked a draft pick over John Elway's contract because it was a circumvention of the salary cap. That is absolute FACT and you cannot argue that.

2. It is a matter of PUBLIC RECORD that restructuring Elway's contract is what allowed the Broncos to sign a key free agent and also to re-sign one of their starters.

Don't believe me? Fine... believe Mike Shanahan:

"I don't believe anybody really thought he was on the decline. There were a number of teams in the NFL who wanted Neil Smith. This was a chance to upgrade our team by getting the premier defensive end in the league. This signing brings a great player to a good defense, and allows us to do some things defensively we've been wanting to do."

Although the Broncos had little room under the salary cap, Shanahan said the signing was possible after Elway's lucrative contract was restructured "a couple days ago."

"We've got some flexibility under the cap," Shanahan said. "We worked John Elway's salary around to free up some more cap money, which enabled us to not only sign Neil, but hopefully a couple of other players before the season starts. It's the only contract we've restructured."

SOURCE (http://www.jsonline.com/packer/sbxxxii/news/free41397.html)

That was the year that Neil first signed with the team. The following year, Denver AGAIN restructured Elway's contract - this time reports even specifically mentioned a sizeable "deferment" - which allowed the re-sign Smith and also to re-sign Schlereth.

DENVER -- In a move to give the Denver Broncos more space under the salary cap, John Elway deferred a March 1 roster bonus of $1.45 million, according to a published report.

Elway's decision in late February allowed the Broncos to sign left guard Mark Schlereth and defensive end Neil Smith to new contracts. Elway was given an extra $155,000 for agreeing to postpone the payment and would have to be a member of the Broncos to get the $1.6 million payment in March 1999.

SOURCE (http://www.augustachronicle.com/stories/050998/spo_124-1677.shtml)

But, yeah... YOU'RE THE VICTIMS here...

Bullsh*t. You got off light.

Skip Towne
09-18-2004, 10:19 PM
That is my point. The NFL Players Union had no problem with these deferred payments. Again, the Broncos didn't hide anything.

You can take your astrick and stick it up Peterson's @zz. After all, that is where your nose is...
Astrick hahahahahaha you illiterate donkey scum.

cdcox
09-18-2004, 10:20 PM
REP to TheNextStep

TEX
09-18-2004, 10:24 PM
That is my point. The NFL Players Union had no problem with these deferred payments. Again, the Broncos didn't hide anything.

You can take your astrick and stick it up Peterson's @zz. After all, that is where your nose is...

Spin little Donkey - spin. Try as you might, there's no way to do it. Maybe you should go to the Mane, get in a circle with all the other goofs, and go for it...

jspchief
09-18-2004, 10:27 PM
Here's another little tidbit that some of you may have missed:http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1883419

By Len Pasquarelli
ESPN.com



Maybe now, with the sanctions levied against the Donkeys (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=den) on Thursday for circumventing NFL salary cap rules, people will pay a little more attention to Oakland Raiders (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=oak) owner Al Davis, huh? Yeah, we know, it's easy to dismiss Al and some of his rants, convenient to suggest that he has lost a little off his fastball and is just an ornery and bitter old guy who likes to hear himself whistling in the dark. But it was Davis who first brought to public light contentions that Denver had flouted the cap rules, and who termed the Donkeys "cheaters," which is precisely what they turned out to be.




For those of you residing in a cave, or maybe dodging hurricanes, the Donkeys organization was fined $950,000 by the league, and ordered to forfeit a third-round pick in the '05 draft, for cap violations that occurred 1996-98. It marked the second time in three years that the Donkeys were deemed culpable of cap shenanigans, and seemed to validate the charges made by Davis, most of which were ignored at the time. Seems that once again Denver is getting off pretty light. Five years ago, the Pittsburgh Steelers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=pit) lost a third-round pick after the team self-reported itself for a cap violation that involved an illegal incentive in the contract of offensive lineman Will Wolford, a deal that paid him extra if he was forced to move from guard to tackle. We note, at the risk of redundancy, that Pittsburgh turned itself in to the league when it discovered the violation. But from the Donkeys, who have been rumored for years to skirt cap rules, there was no such confession. Instead, it took a 20-month investigation by the Management Council, the league's labor branch, to flesh out the Donkeys' indiscretions.

In his Thursday statement, owner Pat Bowlen even conceded the cap inventiveness by his team was "brought to my attention" by the league. There was no comment from major domo/head coach Mike Shanahan, who oversees everything but the shuffling of paper clips in the Denver front office. It says here that, for a second violation, the Donkeys got off with little more than a wrist slap. Then again, that isn't too surprising, given that Bowlen is such a power broker in the league, serves on key committees, and is viewed as pretty cozy with commissioner Paul Tagliabue. But with the two cap penalties, and the court case earlier this year in which it appears that Bowlen tried an end run around former Donkeys owner Edgar Kaiser on a potential stock sale, some of the bloom is off the rose. There's an old adage that you can make numbers do just about anything you want them to and, when it came to salary cap matters, Bowlen and his lieutenants apparently believed the axiom. No revelation yet, beyond rumor, as to the players and the agent involved in the deceit. But the agent agreed to pay $100,000 to a charity to avoid acknowledging guilt. In the agent world, where profit margins are a lot smaller than you think, $100,000 is a lot of money, and so it had to be a big-name guy. And why should the league and, more important, the NFL Players Association, allow the agent to walk away unstained (albeit poorer) if he was caught red-handed. Uh, probably because the agent is a heavy hitter and the NFLPA always goes lighter on those guys.

Once again, kudos to Al Davis for outing a franchise that likes to pretend it's squeaky clean. And this final thought: Had it been the Raiders who committed the cap fraud, would Davis' team have escaped with such benign sanctions? Cap circumvention, as Davis has reiterated, strikes at the integrity of the league and is a major indiscretion.

TheNextStep
09-18-2004, 10:33 PM
Not only did the Steelers self-report, but they were over the cap by less than 100K at the time.

Their punishment for a self-reported first infraction? Forfeiture of a 3rd round pick.

Denver's punishment for a non-reported SECOND infraction? Forfeiture of a 3rd round pick.

What the f*** is that about?

I'm not saying "take away their Lombardis" or "Put an asterix in the official record book" but I most certainly AM saying that Denver got a slap on the wrist and should have suffered a much more severe punishment and that's why I've got little tolerance for the "Tagliabue is screwing us over" contingent in the Denver fanbase...

Gaz
09-19-2004, 08:09 AM
I have nothing new to add.

xoxo~
Gaz
Not a nice person, sometimes.

Bowser
09-19-2004, 08:25 AM
Here's another little tidbit that some of you may have missed:http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1883419

By Len Pasquarelli
ESPN.com



Maybe now, with the sanctions levied against the Donkeys (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=den) on Thursday for circumventing NFL salary cap rules, people will pay a little more attention to Oakland Raiders (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=oak) owner Al Davis, huh? Yeah, we know, it's easy to dismiss Al and some of his rants, convenient to suggest that he has lost a little off his fastball and is just an ornery and bitter old guy who likes to hear himself whistling in the dark. But it was Davis who first brought to public light contentions that Denver had flouted the cap rules, and who termed the Donkeys "cheaters," which is precisely what they turned out to be.




For those of you residing in a cave, or maybe dodging hurricanes, the Donkeys organization was fined $950,000 by the league, and ordered to forfeit a third-round pick in the '05 draft, for cap violations that occurred 1996-98. It marked the second time in three years that the Donkeys were deemed culpable of cap shenanigans, and seemed to validate the charges made by Davis, most of which were ignored at the time. Seems that once again Denver is getting off pretty light. Five years ago, the Pittsburgh Steelers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=pit) lost a third-round pick after the team self-reported itself for a cap violation that involved an illegal incentive in the contract of offensive lineman Will Wolford, a deal that paid him extra if he was forced to move from guard to tackle. We note, at the risk of redundancy, that Pittsburgh turned itself in to the league when it discovered the violation. But from the Donkeys, who have been rumored for years to skirt cap rules, there was no such confession. Instead, it took a 20-month investigation by the Management Council, the league's labor branch, to flesh out the Donkeys' indiscretions.

In his Thursday statement, owner Pat Bowlen even conceded the cap inventiveness by his team was "brought to my attention" by the league. There was no comment from major domo/head coach Mike Shanahan, who oversees everything but the shuffling of paper clips in the Denver front office. It says here that, for a second violation, the Donkeys got off with little more than a wrist slap. Then again, that isn't too surprising, given that Bowlen is such a power broker in the league, serves on key committees, and is viewed as pretty cozy with commissioner Paul Tagliabue. But with the two cap penalties, and the court case earlier this year in which it appears that Bowlen tried an end run around former Donkeys owner Edgar Kaiser on a potential stock sale, some of the bloom is off the rose. There's an old adage that you can make numbers do just about anything you want them to and, when it came to salary cap matters, Bowlen and his lieutenants apparently believed the axiom. No revelation yet, beyond rumor, as to the players and the agent involved in the deceit. But the agent agreed to pay $100,000 to a charity to avoid acknowledging guilt. In the agent world, where profit margins are a lot smaller than you think, $100,000 is a lot of money, and so it had to be a big-name guy. And why should the league and, more important, the NFL Players Association, allow the agent to walk away unstained (albeit poorer) if he was caught red-handed. Uh, probably because the agent is a heavy hitter and the NFLPA always goes lighter on those guys.

Once again, kudos to Al Davis for outing a franchise that likes to pretend it's squeaky clean. And this final thought: Had it been the Raiders who committed the cap fraud, would Davis' team have escaped with such benign sanctions? Cap circumvention, as Davis has reiterated, strikes at the integrity of the league and is a major indiscretion.

:shake:

Bowlen is a t-u-r-d. And Tagliabue had better re-think this. If teams see that they can pull this kind of stuff and lose only a mil plus a third round draft choice five or six years down the road, it would be logical to think someone else is doing it or going to try to do it.

Props to Granpa AL! Never thought I would utter THOSE words in my life!!

TEX
09-19-2004, 09:20 AM
Not only did the Steelers self-report, but they were over the cap by less than 100K at the time.

Their punishment for a self-reported first infraction? Forfeiture of a 3rd round pick.

Denver's punishment for a non-reported SECOND infraction? Forfeiture of a 3rd round pick.

What the f*** is that about?

I'm not saying "take away their Lombardis" or "Put an asterix in the official record book" but I most certainly AM saying that Denver got a slap on the wrist and should have suffered a much more severe punishment and that's why I've got little tolerance for the "Tagliabue is screwing us over" contingent in the Denver fanbase...

I'm with ya here but I am in favor of an * asterix. At least there will be a "spoken" one for awhile. I also agree thatthe *CHEATING DONX and their hypocritical-pimp-looking-owner got away too easily here when you consider that it's the SECOND cap violation within a 5 year span. I'd say nothing sohort of losing a #1 for this second offense is too light.

* Violated the salary cap during thier Super Bowl years.