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FringeNC
09-18-2004, 09:23 PM
Let's hope they play better. I'd guess will be playing DV-style smashmouth tomorrow.

Woodrow Call
09-18-2004, 09:29 PM
I think Welbourne will be fine. Its time for Smith and Parker to get some run. Kennison is good and Morton was surprisingly decent but the Chiefs need one of these 2 young guys to step up big time. I personally hope Saunders gives Holmes about 30 carries and sets the tone early. I believe a smashmouth offense is the Chiefs best bet at this point.

milkman
09-18-2004, 09:35 PM
Clearly the Chiefs have to start out the game handing the ball to Priest, over and over, and over again.

They need to establish the ground game, and dominence at the point of attack.

Once the Chiefs have established that dominence, they can then open up the passing attack with play-action, which will help Wellbourn in pass protection against Peppers.

Gotta have the Panthers thinking run in order to have any success in the air.

Now that I've established that I have a firm grasp of the obvious, you can continue with the conversation.

whoman69
09-18-2004, 09:36 PM
I have to disagree. A smashmouth game would be in Carolina's favor. Sure we can play this type game, but it would keep the game closer than we would like. If we are smashmouth, they will be smashmouth against our D as well. We need to play the type offense we had for a majority of the games last year. Open up, use the entire field, spread the ball around to various receivers. If we open up a 10-14 point lead they will not be able to keep up as they did against NE in the SB since they are without their top receiver.

milkman
09-18-2004, 09:41 PM
I have to disagree. A smashmouth game would be in Carolina's favor. Sure we can play this type game, but it would keep the game closer than we would like. If we are smashmouth, they will be smashmouth against our D as well. We need to play the type offense we had for a majority of the games last year. Open up, use the entire field, spread the ball around to various receivers. If we open up a 10-14 point lead they will not be able to keep up as they did against NE in the SB since they are without their top receiver.

The reason we have to ground it out is because our passing game is out of sync, either due to Kennison and Morton missing so much TC and preseason time, or because thay are simply mediocre.

Add the fact that Wellbourne is struggling in pass protection, and trying to air it out could be a recipe for failure.

Establish the ground game, then we should be able to have some success with playaction.

cdcox
09-18-2004, 09:54 PM
It is essential that the offense get in the 30+ pt per game mode if we are to be at all successful this season. And that means the passing game must be in sync. And there is no better place to make that happen than at home. We have essentially the same personnel that we did last year when the passing game worked fine.

I couldn't disagree more any idea more than going with the smash mouth approach.

Woodrow Call
09-18-2004, 10:09 PM
The Chiefs best offense is the smashmouth offense. It can set up the playaction(which I dont recall seeing 1 time vs Den) and it is efficient. Watching Saunders throw almost every down against Denver and not utilizing the best running attack in football was frustrating to say the least. The offense completely shut down in the 2nd quarter when it was pass after pass.

A quick 3 and out throwing ball is suicide with this defense. A smashmouth offense sets the tone for the defense in IMO and it keeps them off the field.

The idea that running the ball is playing right into Carolina's hands is wrong. Letting their d-line pin their ears back and attack Welbourne and Roaf is playing right into Carolina's hands.

cdcox
09-18-2004, 10:17 PM
The Chiefs best offense is the smashmouth offense. It can set up the playaction(which I dont recall seeing 1 time vs Den) and it is efficient. Watching Saunders throw almost every down against Denver and not utilizing the best running attack in football was frustrating to say the least. The offense completely shut down in the 2nd quarter when it was pass after pass.

A quick 3 and out throwing ball is suicide with this defense. A smashmouth offense sets the tone for the defense in IMO and it keeps them off the field.

The idea that running the ball is playing right into Carolina's hands is wrong. Letting their d-line pin their ears back and attack Welbourne and Roaf is playing right into Carolina's hands.

Marty, shouldn't you be preparing San Diego's game plan?

Woodrow Call
09-18-2004, 10:26 PM
Marty, shouldn't you be preparing San Diego's game plan?

I was just taking a break from that actually. I was thinking about a couple of 2 gap runs followed by a swing pass to the fullback on 3rd and 9. Think that will trick em?

cdcox
09-18-2004, 10:28 PM
I was just taking a break from that actually. I was thinking about a couple of 2 gap runs followed by a swing pass to the fullback on 3rd and 9. Think that will trick em?

ROFL ROFL

milkman
09-18-2004, 10:40 PM
It is essential that the offense get in the 30+ pt per game mode if we are to be at all successful this season. And that means the passing game must be in sync. And there is no better place to make that happen than at home. We have essentially the same personnel that we did last year when the passing game worked fine.

I couldn't disagree more any idea more than going with the smash mouth approach.

I don't disagree with what you're saying here, for the most part.
However, against the Panthers, with Wellbourne and the receivers struggling, trying to get the passing game in sync could be disastrous.

If we try to air it out, and the receivers aren't getting early separation, Peppers could really lay the wood on Trent, possibly injuring him and leaving us to try and get in sync with Collins at the helm.

I'm not saying that we need to ignore the air attack, but that we need to be careful in the way we use it.

Deberg_1990
09-18-2004, 10:48 PM
If we try to air it out, and the receivers aren't getting early separation, Peppers could really lay the wood on Trent, possibly injuring him and leaving us to try and get in sync with Collins at the helm.



Peppers is good..no doubt..but i like our chances with him going up against Roaf....there is nothing he hasnt seen before.

milkman
09-18-2004, 10:49 PM
Peppers is good..no doubt..but i like our chances with him going up against Roaf....there is nothing he hasnt seen before.

I believe Peppers is going against Wellbourne.

Deberg_1990
09-18-2004, 10:51 PM
I believe Peppers is going against Wellbourne.

I thought he was the RDE? Woulndt that put him up agaisnt Roaf? Or am I wrong?

whoman69
09-18-2004, 10:52 PM
Playing smashmouth is what got us in trouble under our last two head coaches. The lessons of Marty Shottenheimer have not been understood by Dave Wannstadt in Miami either. The Chiefs are successful because they can put pressure on other teams to try to keep up with us offensively. While I certainly agree that Morton and Kennison are hampered by their lack of camp participation, they do have another week of preparation, and Carolina is on a short week. If we play smashmouth against Carolina, we are playing their type of ball, not ours.

milkman
09-18-2004, 11:02 PM
I thought he was the RDE? Woulndt that put him up agaisnt Roaf? Or am I wrong?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=98935

Check out this story that Laz posted.

The story mentions that Roaf matches up against Rucker.

Deberg_1990
09-18-2004, 11:09 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=98935

Check out this story that Laz posted.

The story mentions that Roaf matches up against Rucker.

Hmmm..interesting story......Didnt we used to have Brentson Buckner back in the mid 90's? I think we cut him because he sucked?? How did he get good the last few seasons all the sudden?

milkman
09-18-2004, 11:13 PM
Playing smashmouth is what got us in trouble under our last two head coaches. The lessons of Marty Shottenheimer have not been understood by Dave Wannstadt in Miami either. The Chiefs are successful because they can put pressure on other teams to try to keep up with us offensively. While I certainly agree that Morton and Kennison are hampered by their lack of camp participation, they do have another week of preparation, and Carolina is on a short week. If we play smashmouth against Carolina, we are playing their type of ball, not ours.

I don't have anything against smashmouth.

Teams have won championships with smashmouth styles.

The difference between them and Martyocre was that they attacked the end zone.
Martyocre was more than happy to settle for FGs.

But the way that Priest is utilized in the running game really isn't what I would describe as smashmouth.

He's a slasher type.
He can break tackles, but his bread and butter is his vision, cutability, and explosion to and through the hole.

But I want to use the passing game. I just want to use more playaction to help out both Wellbourne and the receivers.

milkman
09-18-2004, 11:15 PM
Hmmm..interesting story......Didnt we used to have Brentson Buckner back in the mid 90's? I think we cut him because he sucked?? How did he get good the last few seasons all the sudden?

Maybe he didn't suck.
Maybe the people evaluating talent sucked. :hmmm:

Deberg_1990
09-18-2004, 11:25 PM
Maybe he didn't suck.
Maybe the people evaluating talent sucked. :hmmm:

Hmm..good point....But i remember we had him for about 5 minutes one year.

milkman
09-18-2004, 11:35 PM
Hmm..good point....But i remember we had him for about 5 minutes one year.

Yeah, we did have him for a short time in TC a few years back.
I remember at the time thinking this was a solid acquisition.
Next thing you know he's history, and I thought 'WTF'?.

Deberg_1990
09-18-2004, 11:42 PM
Yeah, we did have him for a short time in TC a few years back.
I remember at the time thinking this was a solid acquisition.
Next thing you know he's history, and I thought 'WTF'?.

Yeah..i just looked up his stats on cnnsi. It never even shows him as being on our team so he didnt make it farther than TC that year. It was around 1996 or so I think? Hes bounced around the league quite a bit. Been with Pittsburgh, San Fran , Cinci and Carolina.

Rausch
09-19-2004, 01:58 AM
Maybe he didn't suck.
Maybe the people evaluating talent sucked. :hmmm:

IIRC He made his name with the Steelers, then came here and was lazy and unmotivated and sucked.

Marty cut him?...

Miles
09-19-2004, 02:08 AM
IIRC He made his name with the Steelers, then came here and was lazy and unmotivated and sucked.

Marty cut him?...

Thats how i recall it too. He was horribly unmotivated during training camp.

Gaz
09-19-2004, 09:15 AM
milkman [welcome back, bud] nailed it in Post #18.

Martyball aimed for the FG.
Vermeilball aims for the TD.

There is a world of difference between the two.

And I heartily agree that Saunders needs to use more play action to help out or WRs and get Gonzalez some breathing room.

Our Offense at Invesco was dull and ineffective. Lots of motion is not sufficient to pull the D out of position. You have to fake it to Holmes [they WILL react to a fake to one of the best RBs in football] and get the WRs into the game. Saunders has to do better today.

Welbourn will get a bit better each game as he adjusts to the position.

xoxo~
Gaz
Looking for a bit of that old explosion from the O.

Baby Lee
09-19-2004, 09:19 AM
If we play smashmouth against Carolina, we are playing their type of ball, not ours.
Smashmouth with Priest is NOT smashmouth with Donnell Bennett.

Bowser
09-19-2004, 09:19 AM
milkman [welcome back, bud] nailed it in Post #18.

Martyball aimed for the FG.
Vermeilball aims for the TD.

There is a world of difference between the two.

And I heartily agree that Saunders needs to use more play action to help out or WRs and get Gonzalez some breathing room.

Our Offense at Invesco was dull and ineffective. Lots of motion is not sufficient to pull the D out of position. You have to fake it to Holmes [they WILL react to a fake to one of the best RBs in football] and get the WRs into the game. Saunders has to do better today.

Welbourn will get a bit better each game as he adjusts to the position.

xoxo~
Gaz
Looking for a bit of that old explosion from the O.


What's the odds we'll see a flea flicker, or somesuch today? :hmmm:

Gaz
09-19-2004, 09:25 AM
A flea-flicker might be a bit too cute. Remember the interception against Seattle?

I just want to see us put Holmes reputation to use. Teams know he is the heart of our Offense and they are going to key on him.

1. Our WRs are second-tier talent.
2. Our WRs are rusty from injury.

The need some help. We have that help available in the backfield, but did not use him for that purpose at Invesco.

Play action, Al. Not only will it help Gonzalez and the WRs get free, but a few catches will then help open up space for Holmes. Do not fear the play action, Al. Invoke the spirit of DeBerg.

xoxo~
Gaz
Really wants to see a lot more passing action today.

Bowser
09-19-2004, 09:33 AM
You're probablly right. I love seeing the trick plays, but the % of times they pull off huge gains is pretty well limited. One a game isn't bad to keep the defense honest, tho.

More passing is what this team needs. While Priest is good between the tackles, he is much more of a threat on the draw on quick hitting plays.

And here's a thought---with Welbourne seemingly struggling (although I will give him the benefit of the doubt. We ALL have bad days from time to time!), why not roll the pocket a little more? Trent isn't the most mobile, but he's no statue, either. And our O-Line is athletic enough to make it work. Just a thought.

I'm heading out! You guys enjoy the game, and I'll check back later!