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|Zach|
09-19-2004, 03:32 PM
Yuck.

First of all with the defense. We need to tackle better. I think this is our bigeest problem. Having said that I really do not think they did that bad. I think our defense is improved but in what universe do any of them exepect to keep teams out of the end zone if the offense isn't going to do their part. When the defense actully does what it needs to do and gets that opposing offense off the field (which they did a lot of) we need the offense to score or at the very least sustain a drive so that the defense can rest. This defense is improved but it will never be good enough to rely on if the offense is just going to go out and get 3 and outs. The defense made two turnovers. When your defense can make plays like that you expect the offense to do more with them. Dalton did some good things in there.

On offense our recievers are not getting open. That is all there is to it. I think we are really seein what injuries can do to an offense. When they are open Trent doesn't seem to be getting the ball there. The chemistry is lacking.

I do have to say, it is funny watching people run around with their heads ut off around here. There are a lot of people on this board with a total lack of perspective and an inability to look at the big picture. It is to be expected though.

There are a lot of games to play and we need our guys to get healthy. We need Kennison back. I think this game would have been a lot different with him in there. If we are going to put Hall in the game then we need to throw to him more. Holmes needs more touches, when that happens it will be easier for our crappy WRs to get open becuase they will bite on the play fake. I think Trent needs to do a better job of selling the run in play action. Alot better.

On defense we just have to tackle. Really just to better tacking and things are a lot different. I think the offense really hung our defense out to dry in this game. I really do think we have an improved defense.

They key for both sides of the ball is 3rd down. Our 3rd down numbers this year have been really THAT bad. Something needs to happen. We really seem to be doing a solid job on 1st and 2nd...

I look forward to seeing them get healthier and put some things together against the Texans. We need to get this thing turned around. I am not pressing the panic button yet...

Sure-Oz
09-19-2004, 03:48 PM
Sometimes you gotta let some of us vent, some of us know the long road ahead, alot of us handle anger in different ways. Myself i bitch and moan about everything and bash the sh!t out of my team, doesn't mean i still don't care and don't see whats ahead but I am worrying after these first 2 games. We better win next week if we don't hell will freeze over, it's ****ing Houston. This team played awful in every facet today. I just hope this offense can get back to it's bread and butter and help this pathetic D out. Give it to priest....

Deberg_1990
09-19-2004, 03:48 PM
Agreed Zach....Good write up! The O is just as much to blame as the D is. They are not getting the job done on 3rd down and our D is on the field waaay too long and is getting worn out. Not sure why they are not getting open though? lack of talent? They are getting old? what?? Can someone else explain why they are not getting seperation??

|Zach|
09-19-2004, 03:49 PM
Agreed Zach....Good write up! The O is just as much to blame as the D is. They are not getting the job done on 3rd down and our D is on the field waaay too long and is getting worn out. Not sure why they are not getting open though? lack of talent? They are getting old? what?? Can someone else explain why they are not getting seperation??
I thought you were done with this team...

dirk digler
09-19-2004, 03:50 PM
Yuck.

First of all with the defense. We need to tackle better. I think this is our bigeest problem. Having said that I really do not think they did that bad. I think our defense is improved but in what universe do any of them exepect to keep teams out of the end zone if the offense isn't going to do their part. When the defense actully does what it needs to do and gets that opposing offense off the field (which they did a lot of) we need the offense to score or at the very least sustain a drive so that the defense can rest. This defense is improved but it will never be good enough to rely on if the offense is just going to go out and get 3 and outs. The defense made two turnovers. When your defense can make plays like that you expect the offense to do more with them. Dalton did some good things in there.

On offense our recievers are not getting open. That is all there is to it. I think we are really seein what injuries can do to an offense. When they are open Trent doesn't seem to be getting the ball there. The chemistry is lacking.

I do have to say, it is funny watching people run around with their heads ut off around here. There are a lot of people on this board with a total lack of perspective and an inability to look at the big picture. It is to be expected though.

There are a lot of games to play and we need our guys to get healthy. We need Kennison back. I think this game would have been a lot different with him in there. If we are going to put Hall in the game then we need to throw to him more. Holmes needs more touches, when that happens it will be easier for our crappy WRs to get open becuase they will bite on the play fake. I think Trent needs to do a better job of selling the run in play action. Alot better.

On defense we just have to tackle. Really just to better tacking and things are a lot different. I think the offense really hung our defense out to dry in this game. I really do think we have an improved defense.

They key for both sides of the ball is 3rd down. Our 3rd down numbers this year have been really THAT bad. Something needs to happen. We really seem to be doing a solid job on 1st and 2nd...

I look forward to seeing them get healthier and put some things together against the Texans. We need to get this thing turned around. I am not pressing the panic button yet...


Zach I agree with most that you say but IMO the offense is the biggest problem so far. We knew going into the season that the D would be a work in progress and that our O would keep us in the game. It just hasn't worked out like that. Our receivers sucks big time and if they don't trade for Keenan McCardell this week then it means they don't care about improving this team.

PastorMikH
09-19-2004, 03:50 PM
I'll throw my take here too if you don't mind Zach.


Offense.

Why did we not use Priest more? He averages 4.125 yards per carry and we give him the ball 16 times? He breaks off 19 yards in 2 plays and we don't go back to him? Priest is the heart of this offense, it's not Trent, it's not Tony, it sure isn't any of our WRs, it's Priest. Priest is the only player we have that we can put the game on his shoulders and he'll step up and get it done.

Trent - He is not a Top-tiered QB that can take control of the game on his own. We tried that 3 years ago and it didn't work. Now that he has gotten lots of work and is looking good, they seem to forget that and are going back to treating him like Montana or Elway asking him to fling the ball around like they do in St Louis. And he is doing just like he did when everyone was calling him trINT - forcing throws into double and triple coverage. We also seem to forget that Green is better when he is handing off to Priest. Al, go back and look at last year's tapes, learn from them and get back to that style.

WRs. Kennison with a hamstring is serious. Those things tend to cause problems for the rest of the season. And Kennison is the best WR we have. Morton seems to show up about half the time and I am tired of him letting us down. Smith is NOT going to be an answer this year. The Chiefs need to swallow their pride and get a call to Tampa Bay and get something worked out for McCardell.


Defense.

Missed tackles are still killing us. There is no leader out there. Someone has got to step up and lead this team on the defense. Everytime Jr is in there I hear his name being mentioned on something big. Shoot, he's making more plays than Sims. He's raw and has a long way to go, but if he is doing better than Sims, maybe he should be playing instead of Sims.


Special Teams.

Tynes missed another long one. I am concerned that his confidence may start to become a problem if they keep asking him to kick the long FGs that have a low percentage of being made. Kickoffs and punting are looking good from the kicker's standpoint. Mental breakdowns from the players need to be cut down.

|Zach|
09-19-2004, 04:10 PM
Good takes overall.

Ultra Peanut
09-19-2004, 04:13 PM
Yuck.That's all you needed to say.

|Zach|
09-19-2004, 04:15 PM
That's all you needed to say.
ROFL

the Talking Can
09-19-2004, 04:20 PM
"On defense we just have to tackle. Really just to better tacking and things are a lot different."

I'm asking this question with complete honesty...I'm not trying to be a smart ass:

Why do you think they will ever get better at tackling?

These same players have been terrible tacklers for 2 years or more, what is suddenly going to change that?

|Zach|
09-19-2004, 04:26 PM
"On defense we just have to tackle. Really just to better tacking and things are a lot different."

I'm asking this question with complete honesty...I'm not trying to be a smart ass:

Why do you think they will ever get better at tackling?

These same players have been terrible tacklers for 2 years or more, what is suddenly going to change that?
We have a very young team that will get better as time goes on...

Sure-Oz
09-19-2004, 04:33 PM
Gunther should chew their asses out after the last 2 weeks. I can't imagine how pissed he has to be.

Skip Towne
09-19-2004, 04:35 PM
I didn't read it, too long.

|Zach|
09-19-2004, 04:36 PM
I didn't read it, too long.
Not a big fan of the fancy book learnin?

Baby Lee
09-19-2004, 04:38 PM
I didn't read it, too long.
Try reading it in pieces during a Chiefs defensive stand. I guarantee you'll have time.

LVNHACK
09-19-2004, 04:45 PM
I'll throw my take here too if you don't mind Zach.


Offense.

Why did we not use Priest more? He averages 4.125 yards per carry and we give him the ball 16 times? He breaks off 19 yards in 2 plays and we don't go back to him? Priest is the heart of this offense, it's not Trent, it's not Tony, it sure isn't any of our WRs, it's Priest. Priest is the only player we have that we can put the game on his shoulders and he'll step up and get it done.

Trent - He is not a Top-tiered QB that can take control of the game on his own. We tried that 3 years ago and it didn't work. Now that he has gotten lots of work and is looking good, they seem to forget that and are going back to treating him like Montana or Elway asking him to fling the ball around like they do in St Louis. And he is doing just like he did when everyone was calling him trINT - forcing throws into double and triple coverage. We also seem to forget that Green is better when he is handing off to Priest. Al, go back and look at last year's tapes, learn from them and get back to that style.

WRs. Kennison with a hamstring is serious. Those things tend to cause problems for the rest of the season. And Kennison is the best WR we have. Morton seems to show up about half the time and I am tired of him letting us down. Smith is NOT going to be an answer this year. The Chiefs need to swallow their pride and get a call to Tampa Bay and get something worked out for McCardell.


Defense.

Missed tackles are still killing us. There is no leader out there. Someone has got to step up and lead this team on the defense. Everytime Jr is in there I hear his name being mentioned on something big. Shoot, he's making more plays than Sims. He's raw and has a long way to go, but if he is doing better than Sims, maybe he should be playing instead of Sims.


Special Teams.

Tynes missed another long one. I am concerned that his confidence may start to become a problem if they keep asking him to kick the long FGs that have a low percentage of being made. Kickoffs and punting are looking good from the kicker's standpoint. Mental breakdowns from the players need to be cut down.



I agree PMike.....IMO AL Saunders is killing the Offense with his play calling.....This isn't the Rams, the Chiefs don't have those WR's use Priest and then go from there...

Raiderhader
09-19-2004, 04:49 PM
"On defense we just have to tackle. Really just to better tacking and things are a lot different."

I'm asking this question with complete honesty...I'm not trying to be a smart ass:

Why do you think they will ever get better at tackling?

These same players have been terrible tacklers for 2 years or more, what is suddenly going to change that?


A focus on fundamentals would help a lot. They are tackling high and not wrapping up.

Sure-Oz
09-19-2004, 04:57 PM
The missed tackling at the line was ridiculous, we had so many stops at the line that turned into 1st downs or 7 yard runs!

go bowe
09-19-2004, 04:58 PM
Yuck.

* * *

Dalton did some good things in there.

* * *

I look forward to seeing them get healthier and put some things together against the Texans. We need to get this thing turned around. I am not pressing the panic button yet...dalton did look good early on, but it looked like he ran out of steam after awhile...

or maybe they started double-teaming him instead of sims, i don't know...

as far as the texans, i worry that we can't even beat them if we play like we did today...

|Zach|
09-19-2004, 05:00 PM
as far as the texans, i worry that we can't even beat them if we play like we did today...
I agree on the O's side of the ball...

But I really think our defense did good and improved. That is my big point. Our offense hung them out to dry today. I don't expect the defense to do well if the offense is getting 3 and outs left and right there is no way for our defense to do well when they are forced to be on the field as much as they were...hell they even got 2 turnovers and the offense couldnt help them out.

go bowe
09-19-2004, 05:03 PM
I agree on the O's side of the ball...

But I really think our defense did good and improved. That is my big point. Our offense hung them out to dry today. I don't expect the defense to do well if the offense is getting 3 and outs left and right there is no way for our defense to do well when they are forced to be on the field as much as they were...hell they even got 2 turnovers and the offense couldnt help them out.yes, our d did some good things today...

even flashed a few times...

but they screwed up more often than not, it seemed...

the really bad plays cancelled out the good ones... :( :( :(

WilliamTheIrish
09-19-2004, 05:16 PM
The only thing I'll disagree with is the "defense wasn't that bad" part.

The defense was OK... for one half. Giving up a 13 play 9 minute drive is exactly what they did last week. Only they did it a quarter earlier than normal.

The D was pathetic in the 2nd half. A good defense holds that lead at home until the O explodes.

We saw that happen today. Problem was, it was the other teams D.

Boyceofsummer
09-19-2004, 05:17 PM
Our GM sucks. Our coaches (excluding defense & special teams) suck. Our talent for the most part has passed over the hill. We have a FEW good young players with no idea how to utilize them. It's depressing. I hope the next ownership has a serious hard-on for CP. I'm sorry Mr. Hunt has to watch this. Reference the autograph post earlier this week.

Raiderhader
09-19-2004, 05:19 PM
yes, our d did some good things today...

even flashed a few times...

but they screwed up more often than not, it seemed...

the really bad plays cancelled out the good ones... :( :( :(


You have to take into consideration two key points however -

1. They are still trying to learn and gel under a new system.

2. The _ffense left them with a short field and short breathers on a very regular basis.


If the _ffense is sustaining drives and allowing them to rest, and if they are scoring, the defense looks a lot better than it has the past two games. Considering point #1 the _ffense needs to be doing every thing they can to help the defense out early on in the season, and they have not been.

go bowe
09-19-2004, 05:25 PM
You have to take into consideration two key points however -

1. They are still trying to learn and gel under a new system.

2. The _ffense left them with a short field and short breathers on a very regular basis.


If the _ffense is sustaining drives and allowing them to rest, and if they are scoring, the defense looks a lot better than it has the past two games. Considering point #1 the _ffense needs to be doing every thing they can to help the defense out early on in the season, and they have not been.those are valid points, but even more damaging was the poor tackling, imo...

many times it looked like we had stopped them for no gain or even a loss, but the rb was able to break tackles and take off down the field... :banghead::banghead: :banghead:

Raiderhader
09-19-2004, 05:27 PM
those are valid points, but even more damaging was the poor tackling, imo...

many times it looked like we had stopped them for no gain or even a loss, but the rb was able to break tackles and take off down the field... :banghead::banghead: :banghead:


I am by no means giving a pass to the D, they still have a lot of work to do. But some of their problems can be laid at the feet of the _ffense.

go bowe
09-19-2004, 05:34 PM
I am by no means giving a pass to the D, they still have a lot of work to do. But some of their problems can be laid at the feet of the _ffense.i wonder if playing that soft schedule last year created unrealistic expectations for our o...

sure, the o could have mounted some sustained drives which would have helped the d, but the d looked so outclassed that i doubt that the outcome would have been much different...

i just don't think our o is gonna score near as much as they did last year, mostly because of the schedule this year...

we have faced two pretty good defenses already and there are more coming down the road...

WilliamTheIrish
09-19-2004, 05:37 PM
You have to take into consideration two key points however -

1. They are still trying to learn and gel under a new system.

2. The _ffense left them with a short field and short breathers on a very regular basis.

If the _ffense is sustaining drives and allowing them to rest, and if they are scoring, the defense looks a lot better than it has the past two games. Considering point #1 the _ffense needs to be doing every thing they can to help the defense out early on in the season, and they have not been.

It may have seemed that way but in reality it was not.

1st Quarter
Start

10:01 1:45 KC 46
6:30 5:20 CAR 34

2nd Quarter

12:34 0:51 CAR 20
10:51 1:42 CAR 22
7:39 3:43 CAR 24
0:49 0:49 CAR 37

3rd Quarter

15:00 8:13 CAR 20 16 80 TD
5:02 0:58 CAR 31
3:28 3:33 CAR 44

4th Quarter

11:27 0:52 CAR 26 2 74 TD
10:35 1:05 KC 40 3 -4 Punt
6:45 1:54 CAR 27 3 1 Punt
4:18 3:57 CAR 46 5 15 Punt


Of their 13 drives 2, started in Chiefs territory. Two at or near the Carolina 40. One of those was due to the shiot 'excessive display' penalty.

No, the defense got their hats handed to them. They played a great half. Then they tanked.\

And just to be fair, yes, the O was dogspit.

Raiderhader
09-19-2004, 05:40 PM
i wonder if playing that soft schedule last year created unrealistic expectations for our o...

sure, the o could have mounted some sustained drives which would have helped the d, but the d looked so outclassed that i doubt that the outcome would have been much different...

i just don't think our o is gonna score near as much as they did last year, mostly because of the schedule this year...

we have faced two pretty good defenses already and there are more coming down the road...


If AS will pull his head out of his ass and call a decent game the _ffense will improve. Sixteen rushes for Priest is not calling a good game. And a good showing by the O will help the defense out. Leaving them with a short field and small breaks on the side line is going to affect their performance. And this makes the times they did excel both today and last week more impressive. Last week they had four straight stops after the O had left them on a short field too many times. Their is some improvement there, and there will be more if the O gets their act together and takes a little pressure off of them.

Raiderhader
09-19-2004, 05:46 PM
It may have seemed that way but in reality it was not.

1st Quarter
Start

10:01 1:45 KC 46
6:30 5:20 CAR 34

2nd Quarter

12:34 0:51 CAR 20
10:51 1:42 CAR 22
7:39 3:43 CAR 24
0:49 0:49 CAR 37

3rd Quarter

15:00 8:13 CAR 20 16 80 TD
5:02 0:58 CAR 31
3:28 3:33 CAR 44

4th Quarter

11:27 0:52 CAR 26 2 74 TD
10:35 1:05 KC 40 3 -4 Punt
6:45 1:54 CAR 27 3 1 Punt
4:18 3:57 CAR 46 5 15 Punt


Of their 13 drives 2, started in Chiefs territory. Two at or near the Carolina 40. One of those was due to the shiot 'excessive display' penalty.

No, the defense got their hats handed to them. They played a great half. Then they tanked.\

And just to be fair, yes, the O was dogspit.


I guess this one of those cases where perception is different than reality. And I totally agree that the first drive of the third quarter can be blamed on no one but the D. However, how did the O respond? By putting them right back out on the field. We had waaaay too many three and outs.

I am not excusing all of the defenses' play, just pointing out that they were not helped any by their O. And that can not happen while the D is still working things out with the new scheme.

go bowe
09-19-2004, 05:48 PM
If AS will pull his head out of his ass and call a decent game the _ffense will improve. Sixteen rushes for Priest is not calling a good game. And a good showing by the O will help the defense out. Leaving them with a short field and small breaks on the side line is going to affect their performance. And this makes the times they did excel both today and last week more impressive. Last week they had four straight stops after the O had left them on a short field too many times. Their is some improvement there, and there will be more if the O gets their act together and takes a little pressure off of them.yeah, i'll grant you that there was some improvement, but that's not saying much since our d has been consistently bad over the past three seasons...

but i do have to admit that i'm glad somebody still has a positive attitude about our d...

kudos to you, sir... :thumb:

Raiderhader
09-19-2004, 05:52 PM
yeah, i'll grant you that there was some improvement, but that's not saying much since our d has been consistently bad over the past three seasons...

I disagree, considering how bad we have been any sign of improvement is saying a lot. It is saying we are improving.

but i do have to admit that i'm glad somebody still has a positive attitude about our d...

kudos to you, sir... :thumb:


It's a tough job, but someone has got to do it. :)

DenverChief
09-19-2004, 06:03 PM
I actually noticed the majority of our passing plays were over the middle...what happend to sideline and curl routes? Green missed a couple of WIDEOPEN WR's today prolly becasue he only trusts TG right about now.....we need to get Smith and Parker more involved in practice so Trent will throw to them on gameday

the Talking Can
09-19-2004, 06:12 PM
We have a very young team that will get better as time goes on...

Thanks for the response, but I still sense people are dreaming.

We have the same defense as last year, they couldn't tackle then either.

Holliday/Hicks/Browning/Sims/Fujita/Barber/McCleon/Wesley/Woods/Warfield are 3rd year vets or (much) older....I don't understand how they are suddenly going to become good tacklers or smart players.

I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Lord Bestyle
09-19-2004, 06:36 PM
My $0.02...

D: There's improvement, definitely. One series, they force a three-and-out with a bunch of stops in the backfield. The next series, a missed tackle results in a 63-yard run. This is improvement because GRob's imitation-D never forced three-and-outs. Gun should skip game plan and devote this week's practices to tackling drills.

O: We drafted Kris Wilson to be a big change in our O for this season. But, now that he's injured, our O is essentially the same (or arguably worse) than last year. It looks like opposing teams have figured out how to stop our offense. And with nothing new to show, the O is going to continue to suck. Every team with a good D is going to look at what DEN and CAR have done and duplicate it. That is scary.

ST: Less important than the previous two, but does anyone (other than Donx fans) think that Dante's four returns last year would have happened if the refs were enforcing "block-in-the-back" as much as they are now?

TEX
09-19-2004, 07:30 PM
My thoughts are the offense looks old and slow, much like the Raiders of las year. And the _efense is as $hitty as ever, especially at DE, MLB, and whoever plays CB opposite Warfield. This team is heading for an 8-8 train wreck of a season. You stand pat - you fall behind, pretty simple math... :shake:

LVNHACK
09-19-2004, 07:42 PM
My $0.02...

D: There's improvement, definitely. One series, they force a three-and-out with a bunch of stops in the backfield. The next series, a missed tackle results in a 63-yard run. This is improvement because GRob's imitation-D never forced three-and-outs. Gun should skip game plan and devote this week's practices to tackling drills.

O: We drafted Kris Wilson to be a big change in our O for this season. But, now that he's injured, our O is essentially the same (or arguably worse) than last year. It looks like opposing teams have figured out how to stop our offense. And with nothing new to show, the O is going to continue to suck. Every team with a good D is going to look at what DEN and CAR have done and duplicate it. That is scary.

ST: Less important than the previous two, but does anyone (other than Donx fans) think that Dante's four returns last year would have happened if the refs were enforcing "block-in-the-back" as much as they are now?




While I agree on your take, IMO Al Saunders need to realize what he has and use his RB's more.......

Logical
09-19-2004, 07:44 PM
Gunther should chew their asses out after the last 2 weeks. I can't imagine how pissed he has to be.

Gunther is NOT a miracle worker, he does not have the talent to produce.

milkman
09-19-2004, 08:06 PM
Gunther is NOT a miracle worker, he does not have the talent to produce.

I agree with this, but at the same time I have to wonder this.

Why the **** was Gunther using a 3 man rush and zones so many times when the Chiefs D got the Panthers in 3rd and long?
Does he look at the (lack of) talent and come to the conclusion that the secondary can't hold up in man.

What happened to that aggressive approach we have all been waiting for?

Count Alex's Losses
09-19-2004, 08:09 PM
See my sig. We've already dropped seven passes this year by my reckoning (I've been keeping a tally during the game. We had four today. Two by Richard Smith on back to back plays, one by Morton and one by Hall).

Trent Green is not playing well either. The last two years he's had problems in the first month of the season before breaking out and doing well the rest of the year. That, combined with the level of our opponents and injuries has led to an 0-2 start IMO.

It's too bad, because Green was 13-20 for 149 yards in the first half today. Second half he was an abysmal 4-14 for 38 yards. Disgusting.

Sure-Oz
09-19-2004, 08:09 PM
Gunther is NOT a miracle worker, he does not have the talent to produce.
I agree, we have no one on defense that the opposing team needs to fear.

Count Alex's Losses
09-19-2004, 08:11 PM
I agree, we have no one on defense that the opposing team needs to fear.

The Panthers had 7 points and 43 yards rushing in the first half. Our defense spent way too much time on the field in the second half.

The offense is to blame for this mess.

Chiefnj
09-19-2004, 08:57 PM
Gunther is NOT a miracle worker, he does not have the talent to produce.

Today's game brilliantly illustrates this point. How many times were players in position to make a play, but because of poor tackling the offense converted? Gunther was making the right calls, the players just couldn't execute.

The only 2 defensive players worth a damn today were Warfield and Dalton.

PastorMikH
09-19-2004, 09:35 PM
I actually noticed the majority of our passing plays were over the middle...what happend to sideline and curl routes? Green missed a couple of WIDEOPEN WR's today prolly becasue he only trusts TG right about now.....we need to get Smith and Parker more involved in practice so Trent will throw to them on gameday



Last week the WRs were covered on the outside. From what I was hearing on the radio the same is true for this week as well. We can't complete passes to the outside if the recievers can't get separation.

Inspector
09-19-2004, 10:09 PM
I'm nrevous about Houston now. I remember last year before the playing the Bengals, thinking we would kick their butts....

But hey, Cheeks seems like a good pick up. Looks like we'll really need a good punter this year.