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View Full Version : Let's face it folks...this season is no longer about the defense...


htismaqe
09-19-2004, 07:55 PM
Say what you want about the defense -- no amount of complaining is going change this fact:

We went into this season KNOWING that the defense was going to struggle, especially early. The offense was SUPPOSED to help offset this.

No, the defense wasn't stellar today. However, they played MUCH better than last week and even added a TD. The offense rewarded them by putting out the biggest pile of crap since the 2001 season.

I was at the game today and I really felt like the defense upheld their end of the bargain. They had some lapses, but the real problems (like the long run) didn't happen until after the offense completely let the air out of the sails.

1) The offensive line -- no I'm not talking about Welbourn. I'm talking about WILLIE ROAF. He really looks like he's lost a step, and he's relying more and more on holding. I know some people noticed it in the preseason, and he was really exposed by Peppers today on a couple of occasions.

2) Drops -- I can't even say any more. It makes me want to puke. Unlike last week, they got open. And I mean WIDE OPEN. But they just can't hang onto the ball. I hope everybody that was calling for more Richard Smith now realize what that means.

3) Trent Green -- I don't know that I can criticize this guy. It's pretty obvious: zero WR's + zero protection = bad QB play.

4) The playcalling by Al Saunders STINKS -- I'm more convinced than ever that I don't want this guy touching our team in any way, shape, or form after Vermeil leaves. You have arguably the most potent weapon in the game and you give him the ball SIXTEEN times? There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for Priest Holmes EVER having less than 20 carries. None.

5) Tackling -- it was better today, but the long run was again the result of poor tackling. He should have been down after about 6 yards. McCleon avoided contact on a couple of plays, but also made a nice open-field tackle.

6) Pass coverage -- at first I thought it was Dexter McCleon just getting beat man-to-man. Then I realized that Gunther was trying to contain the outside run by running a flat zone again. The corners on the outside were releasing the WR's into zone coverage, and ONCE AGAIN, our safeties left guys WIDE OPEN. I've been saying it for two years -- Jerome Woods CANNOT cover a deep zone.

Those were the big things I saw about the game, as far as negatives. On the positive side, I saw Sims beat a couple of double-teams, and both Siavii and Dalton played well. Our defensive tackles are definitely better than last year. Of course, our defensive ends are just as bad as ever. And Warfield looked great.

Demonpenz
09-19-2004, 07:56 PM
I think the smart people know it's not about the offense or defense, it's about the entire team

ChiefsCountry
09-19-2004, 07:57 PM
1) The offensive line -- no I'm not talking about Welbourn. I'm talking about WILLIE ROAF. He really looks like he's lost a step, and he's relying more and more on holding. I know some people noticed it in the preseason, and he was really exposed by Peppers today on a couple of occasions.


Thank you, I said this last week when everybody was dissing on Welbourn.

|Zach|
09-19-2004, 07:58 PM
Great Post HTIS. The offense hung out the defense to dry today.

Deberg_1990
09-19-2004, 07:58 PM
I agree with you man..We should never have resigned Jerome Woods...he cant cover to save his life.

Deberg_1990
09-19-2004, 07:59 PM
Great Post HTIS. The offense hung out the defense to dry today.

Agreed Zach....the D was bad..but the offense was worse today.

milkman
09-19-2004, 07:59 PM
It was Rucker that exposed Roaf today.

Everything else is dead on.

I've been asking why Gun was using the zones.
What happened to his legendary aggressive Man D?

Pants
09-19-2004, 07:59 PM
Actually it makes perfect sense what htismaque said.

And Demon'sPenis, smart people know they have to support what they say with some actual proof, like htismaque did. What you said was pointless and should be disregarded by any "smart people".

stevieray
09-19-2004, 08:00 PM
The offense is 7 of 25 on third downs.

Chiefnj
09-19-2004, 08:07 PM
If anyone wants to know what happened to Gunthers aggressive man D, look at how McLeon couldn't keep up with a rookie. The Panthers should have had a 60+ yard bomb very early in the game that they luckily overthrew. Then Coulbert had his way with Dex several times in man coverage.

People can point their fingers at the offense all they want, sure they are disappointing this year, but the defensive players still suck. Rewind 48 hours ago - "Foster sucks as a starter..." Fast forward 48 hours and he has the longest run in Panther history. Not the longest run this season, but in franchise history! It's the same story every damn week for the past 2 years. It doesn't matter who lines up in the backfield, it's "career day."

dirk digler
09-19-2004, 08:09 PM
I agree with everything you said Htis. The main problem with the offense is the lack of receivers. If we just had 1 downfield threat then that would open up things for Gonzo and the rest of the offense.

ROYC75
09-19-2004, 08:09 PM
Without a doubt, the defense is actually doing better, not much, but signs of improvement is there. A little more game seasoning and they should jell OK to a middle of the road D.

Our offense is no way close to last years production.... I agree on Roaf, looks like he was going thru the motions today.... Rucker made him look slow and weak .... Play calling is a fluke right now, Al needs to get with it.

This D and last years offense, at worst we are 1-1 with more hope that what we have see so far .

whoman69
09-19-2004, 08:10 PM
The offense is 7 of 25 on third downs.
Sounds about right. We can't go on like that. We need to rais that from 28 % to about 45 %.

Skip Towne
09-19-2004, 08:10 PM
Disagree on the tackling. It was horrid. Midway throught the 4th quarter they threw up a graphic that said we had missed 28 tackles.

dirk digler
09-19-2004, 08:10 PM
It was Rucker that exposed Roaf today.

Everything else is dead on.

I've been asking why Gun was using the zones.
What happened to his legendary aggressive Man D?


Besides Warfield I don't think they have anyone that can play man to man like Gun wants.

dirk digler
09-19-2004, 08:12 PM
Disagree on the tackling. It was horrid. Midway throught the 4th quarter they threw up a graphic that said we had missed 28 tackles.


Yep tackling was horrid especially McCleon.

J Diddy
09-19-2004, 08:12 PM
The offense is 7 of 25 on third downs.


I looked up at the board below the press boxes and we were 14% halfway through the 4th quarter.

I could have cried in my beer except I didn't want to pay $6 to get one.

Rausch
09-19-2004, 08:13 PM
Great Post HTIS. The offense hung out the defense to dry today.

Agreed.

The defense seems to have improved this year from "piss ****ing poor" to "average/so so."

Unfortunately, our offense moved back about 10 spots, meaning any defensive improvment is moot. Our WR's are banged up, backing down, and dropping out....

Skip Towne
09-19-2004, 08:13 PM
Actually it makes perfect sense what htismaque said.

And Demon'sPenis, smart people know they have to support what they say with some actual proof, like htismaque did. What you said was pointless and should be disregarded by any "smart people".
Yeah, Demonpenis, what she said.

Demonpenz
09-19-2004, 08:13 PM
Yep tackling was horrid especially McCleon.

who had him in the adopt-a-chief, lets kick his ass

htismaqe
09-19-2004, 08:13 PM
If anyone wants to know what happened to Gunthers aggressive man D, look at how McLeon couldn't keep up with a rookie. The Panthers should have had a 60+ yard bomb very early in the game that they luckily overthrew. Then Coulbert had his way with Dex several times in man coverage.

People can point their fingers at the offense all they want, sure they are disappointing this year, but the defensive players still suck. Rewind 48 hours ago - "Foster sucks as a starter..." Fast forward 48 hours and he has the longest run in Panther history. Not the longest run this season, but in franchise history! It's the same story every damn week for the past 2 years. It doesn't matter who lines up in the backfield, it's "career day."

I was watching McCleon closely after he gave Colbert that big cushion early. Unfortunately, Dex was not in man coverage on anybody much of the time. The Chiefs were playing that screwed up "bump the guy at the line and then let him go free because our safeties aren't fast enough" zone.

go bowe
09-19-2004, 08:13 PM
* * *
1) The offensive line -- no I'm not talking about Welbourn. I'm talking about WILLIE ROAF. He really looks like he's lost a step, and he's relying more and more on holding. I know some people noticed it in the preseason, and he was really exposed by Peppers today on a couple of occasions.

2) Drops -- I can't even say any more. It makes me want to puke. Unlike last week, they got open. And I mean WIDE OPEN. But they just can't hang onto the ball. I hope everybody that was calling for more Richard Smith now realize what that means.

* * *it looked like willie was hobbling worse than usual between plays...

i wonder if his knees are wearing out altogether...

given the drops and "zero" play of the wr's, i wonder how soon they'll give samie parker a shot...

parker got a late start in tc and has been injured, so maybe he'll be ready to play soon, and hopefully he'll catch a few of the passes that are being dropped now...

J Diddy
09-19-2004, 08:14 PM
Besides Warfield I don't think they have anyone that can play man to man like Gun wants.

throw battle in and let him take his lumps, just like he did with pat dennis

Wide freaking open receivers all freaking day.

Demonpenz
09-19-2004, 08:14 PM
Yeah, Demonpenis, what she said.

It's too much work to back up what I say, i ususally stick to the "sucks/rules" method, it either sucks or it rules

Chiefnj
09-19-2004, 08:16 PM
I was watching McCleon closely after he gave Colbert that big cushion early. Unfortunately, Dex was not in man coverage on anybody much of the time. The Chiefs were playing that screwed up "bump the guy at the line and then let him go free because our safeties aren't fast enough" zone.

On the bomb early in the game I'm pretty sure it was Dex trailing behind 8 or so yards with noone else close. On Coulberts TD it was Dex on his ass in the endzone crying for a phantom pushoff.

And don't even get me started on Kawika today. The few times he played he was worse than Scanlon.

J Diddy
09-19-2004, 08:17 PM
it looked like willie was hobbling worse than usual between plays...

i wonder if his knees are wearing out altogether...

given the drops and "zero" play of the wr's, i wonder how soon they'll give samie parker a shot...

parker got a late start in tc and has been injured, so maybe he'll be ready to play soon, and hopefully he'll catch a few of the passes that are being dropped now...

the second pass to smith would have been a hell of a catch, between 2 defenders as well as slightly out of his reach.

I can't remember the first one.

He was wide open at least 3 times today and green threw the ball to a double covered Morton.

milkman
09-19-2004, 08:17 PM
Besides Warfield I don't think they have anyone that can play man to man like Gun wants.

That being the case. why did any of us think that Gun could come in and have any impact?

I know most thought it was Warfield that was the weak link, but clearly McCleon has been exposed as a pretender.

Warfield has, as I expected, shown that he can play this game.

htismaqe
09-19-2004, 08:18 PM
Disagree on the tackling. It was horrid. Midway throught the 4th quarter they threw up a graphic that said we had missed 28 tackles.

Yes, they missed some tackles. They made up for it by getting 4 or 5 guys to the ball on running plays. They had 42 yards rushing at halftime, and had held Carolina in check on the ground for most of the game. They spent way too much time on the field in the 3rd quarter.

J Diddy
09-19-2004, 08:18 PM
On the bomb early in the game I'm pretty sure it was Dex trailing behind 8 or so yards with noone else close. On Coulberts TD it was Dex on his ass in the endzone crying for a phantom pushoff.

And don't even get me started on Kawika today. The few times he played he was worse than Scanlon.


Yes it was, it made me really angry

I cursed on the inside.

I don't even remember mitchell except for special teams

go bowe
09-19-2004, 08:20 PM
On the bomb early in the game I'm pretty sure it was Dex trailing behind 8 or so yards with noone else close. On Coulberts TD it was Dex on his ass in the endzone crying for a phantom pushoff.

And don't even get me started on Kawika today. The few times he played he was worse than Scanlon.what?!?!?!?

nobody's better than rich scanlon!!

oh, wait...

the Talking Can
09-19-2004, 08:21 PM
obviously our offense has problems, but how can you say the defense has improved?

they were embarrassing...at least our offense has a standard of success to refer to...they know what it requires to be successful, and they have talented players...it is reasonable to assume they'll work it out

our defense has no success to refer to, they don't know what it requires to be successful, and they don't have any talented players (Wesley/Fujita is all)...its not reasonable to assume they'll work it out...

our offense wasn't good enough last year to carry this sorry D, did you actually expect the offense to be even better this year?

the only real hope we had was the defense getting their shit together...and that hasn't happened...

sorry, I guess I am defensive about the offense...they've carried the defense's water for 2 years...when is the defense going to return the favor?

htismaqe
09-19-2004, 08:21 PM
On the bomb early in the game I'm pretty sure it was Dex trailing behind 8 or so yards with noone else close. On Coulberts TD it was Dex on his ass in the endzone crying for a phantom pushoff.

And don't even get me started on Kawika today. The few times he played he was worse than Scanlon.

Yep, it was that bomb that got me watching him. He was in man and he got beat BADLY. But there were several times after that that it looked like he was getting beat, but he was really just releasing the WR into a zone, like he's supposed to. Have I mentioned lately how much I HATE Gunther's zone defense?

I don't know what you're talking about with Kawika. He was a complete non-factor today. He played maybe 5 snaps total and did nothing bad, but nothing good either.

dirk digler
09-19-2004, 08:24 PM
Yep, it was that bomb that got me watching him. He was in man and he got beat BADLY. But there were several times after that that it looked like he was getting beat, but he was really just releasing the WR into a zone, like he's supposed to. Have I mentioned lately how much I HATE Gunther's zone defense?

I don't know what you're talking about with Kawika. He was a complete non-factor today. He played maybe 5 snaps total and did nothing bad, but nothing good either.


Mitchell was supposed to be covering Mangum on the TD play when Jake threw up that wild ball. It was a luck TD but it should have been an easy INT.

Chiefnj
09-19-2004, 08:25 PM
Yep, it was that bomb that got me watching him. He was in man and he got beat BADLY. But there were several times after that that it looked like he was getting beat, but he was really just releasing the WR into a zone, like he's supposed to. Have I mentioned lately how much I HATE Gunther's zone defense?

I don't know what you're talking about with Kawika. He was a complete non-factor today. He played maybe 5 snaps total and did nothing bad, but nothing good either.

Hoover got Kawika to drop his jock.

In fact, it seems to be a big problem with all of the players this year. I think I'll find an attorney to file a class action suit against the jock manufacturer on behalf of the Chiefs. They keep falling off all damn game.

Coogs
09-19-2004, 08:25 PM
People can point their fingers at the offense all they want, sure they are disappointing this year, but the defensive players still suck. Rewind 48 hours ago - "Foster sucks as a starter..." Fast forward 48 hours and he has the longest run in Panther history. Not the longest run this season, but in franchise history! It's the same story every damn week for the past 2 years. It doesn't matter who lines up in the backfield, it's "career day."

Yep! Every week! Getting darn old too!

After 2 weeks, we are last in the league in run defense and points allowed. Those are the biggest two defensive stats too IMO.

go bowe
09-19-2004, 08:27 PM
Yes, they missed some tackles. They made up for it by getting 4 or 5 guys to the ball on running plays. They had 42 yards rushing at halftime, and had held Carolina in check on the ground for most of the game. They spent way too much time on the field in the 3rd quarter.really, it seemed like the d was actually playing pretty well on lots of plays, especially in the first half...

more than last year...

and yes, they were on the field too damned long in the 3rd qtr and into the fourth...

now that i'm cooling off a little, i agree with you that there has been some real improvement in the d in terms of being able to stop carolina, even if only part of the time...

KHinz57
09-19-2004, 08:27 PM
Hey, how about when Eric Hicks totally ran right into DeJuan Foster and Foster just bounced off him and continued downfield. I think Hicks needs to go, he comes up with only 1 good play per game, and gets man-handled by every tackle in the league, why do we still have this guy around?

htismaqe
09-19-2004, 08:27 PM
obviously our offense has problems, but how can you say the defense has improved?

they were embarrassing...at least our offense has a standard of success to refer to...they know what it requires to be successful, and they have talented players...it is reasonable to assume they'll work it out

our defense has no success to refer to, they don't know what it requires to be successful, and they don't have any talented players (Wesley/Fujita is all)...its not reasonable to assume they'll work it out...

our offense wasn't good enough last year to carry this sorry D, did you actually expect the offense to be even better this year?

the only real hope we had was the defense getting their shit together...and that hasn't happened...

sorry, I guess I am defensive about the offense...they've carried the defense's water for 2 years...when is the defense going to return the favor?

You ask how I think the defense has improved and then proceed to use the words "success" and "successful" 3 times.

I DID NOT say the defense was successful. I said they played better than last week.

And they did.

Sure-Oz
09-19-2004, 08:31 PM
The whole team played liek shit. The O def. hung the defense out to dry though. That is what happens when you don't use your best player. 16 touches is never enough!

the Talking Can
09-19-2004, 08:32 PM
You ask how I think the defense has improved and then proceed to use the words "success" and "successful" 3 times.

I DID NOT say the defense was successful. I said they played better than last week.

And they did.

well, then we just disagree...."half-time" stats are meaningless....at home, against a team without its top WR or RB, and a brand new OL, they gave up almost 200 yards rushing, 28 points, and let the back up RB set a franchise record for longest run.....where, in all of that, you find improvement is hard for me to see...I call it a rerun....

Chiefs Pantalones
09-19-2004, 08:32 PM
Htis,

Gunther loves man-to-man and he hates zone as well as rotating Dlinemen. Although I see the Chiefs doing it. I heard on the radio this week that the zone and rotating is all DV. Do you think that's true? I saw today on a 3rd and 5, we had our CBs ten yards off the ball, and rushed 3, and guess what?...yep, they got the first down, a 15 yard pass play. I thought that was gone with GRob. I think that type of call is DV overruling. We know that Gun likes to bring it, especially on 3rd down. It has to be DV, he's conservative. What do you tihnk?

And BTW, I think the Oline played better than people are saying. Green had to hold on to the ball too long and leave the Oline out to dry because the WRs couldn't get open (Green was waiting for the WRs to get separation).

Also, is it just me, or does Gonzo look slower? He should've got surgery on it this offseason, instead of playing around. What kind of leadership example is that anyway?

go bowe
09-19-2004, 08:34 PM
You ask how I think the defense has improved and then proceed to use the words "success" and "successful" 3 times.

I DID NOT say the defense was successful. I said they played better than last week.

And they did.i agree...

weren't there fewer long td runs today?

didn't we force more punts too? it seemed like it....

still a long way to go, though...

J Diddy
09-19-2004, 08:34 PM
Htis,

Gunther loves man-to-man and he hates zone as well as rotating Dlinemen. Although I see the Chiefs doing it. I heard on the radio this week that the zone and rotating is all DV. Do you think that's true? I saw today on a 3rd and 5, we had our CBs ten yards off the ball, and rushed 3, and guess what?...yep, they got the first down, a 15 yard pass play. I thought that was gone with GRob. I think that type of call is DV overruling. We know that Gun likes to bring it, especially on 3rd down. It has to be DV, he's conservative. What do you tihnk?

And BTW, I think the Oline played better than people are saying. Green had to hold on to the ball too long and leave the Oline out to dry because the WRs couldn't get open (Green was waiting for the WRs to get separation).

Also, is it just me, or does Gonzo look slower? He should've got surgery on it this offseason, instead of playing around. What kind of leadership example is that anyway?

Smith was open all day long.

the Talking Can
09-19-2004, 08:34 PM
Htis,

Gunther loves man-to-man and he hates zone as well as rotating Dlinemen. Although I see the Chiefs doing it. I heard on the radio this week that the zone and rotating is all DV. Do you think that's true? I saw today on a 3rd and 5, we had our CBs ten yards off the ball, and rushed 3, and guess what?...yep, they got the first down, a 15 yard pass play. I thought that was gone with GRob. I think that type of call is DV overruling. We know that Gun likes to bring it, especially on 3rd down. It has to be DV, he's conservative. What do you tihnk?

And BTW, I think the Oline played better than people are saying. Green had to hold on to the ball too long and leave the Oline out to dry because the WRs couldn't get open (Green was waiting for the WRs to get separation).

Also, is it just me, or does Gonzo look slower? He should've got surgery on it this offseason, instead of playing around. What kind of leadership example is that anyway?

no way DV tells Gun what defense to run...I can't believe Gun ther would come back with that stipulation

J Diddy
09-19-2004, 08:35 PM
i agree...

weren't there fewer long td runs today?

didn't we force more punts too? it seemed like it....

still a long way to go, though...


Dexter "mighty mouse" Mcleon needs to gooooooooooooooooo.

At least Bartee is close when they score a long touchdown run.

tk13
09-19-2004, 08:35 PM
Rewind 48 hours ago - "Foster sucks as a starter..." Fast forward 48 hours and he has the longest run in Panther history. Not the longest run this season, but in franchise history! It's the same story every damn week for the past 2 years. It doesn't matter who lines up in the backfield, it's "career day."

No way, DeShaun is underrated... if he didn't fumble all the time he'd be a really good back....good speed, ability to break tackles. He's not had many opportunities to do his thing... he beat up on the Colts pretty good last year in their victory in Indy, he ran wild on the Rams at their place in the playoffs, he even had 43 yards on 3 carries against the Pats in the Super Bowl... he has ability, I don't think this is a Shawn Bryson (or Peabo Bryson, whoever that was) from the Lions that lit us up for 100+ to never be heard from again.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-19-2004, 08:36 PM
The whole team played liek shit. The O def. hung the defense out to dry though. That is what happens when you don't use your best player. 16 touches is never enough!

Priest would've had more touches but it was like 14:35 in the 4th quarter and were in possession of the ball...but guess what...that was only the second time in the second half that the offense had the ball. All together, I think we only had the ball 4 times in the second half. Our defense couldn't get off the field right from the start of the second half.

It was a total team loss, as it always is. No side really helped out the other. You just gotta give credit, I guess, to Carolina for outcoaching and the players for outplaying us. That's why they were in the SB and we weren't.

FringeNC
09-19-2004, 08:36 PM
Htis,

And BTW, I think the Oline played better than people are saying. Green had to hold on to the ball too long and leave the Oline out to dry because the WRs couldn't get open (Green was waiting for the WRs to get separation).

Also, is it just me, or does Gonzo look slower? He should've got surgery on it this offseason, instead of playing around. What kind of leadership example is that anyway?

Yeah, I don't understand that Gonzo thing either. Although Smith dropped both of them, he got open two plays in a row. Even he is dropping them, he might stretch the field a little. I just have no use for Morton. As I said on another thread, cut his ass.

ROYC75
09-19-2004, 08:37 PM
On the bomb early in the game I'm pretty sure it was Dex trailing behind 8 or so yards with noone else close. On Coulberts TD it was Dex on his ass in the endzone crying for a phantom pushoff.

And don't even get me started on Kawika today. The few times he played he was worse than Scanlon.

Hey, at least Scanlon can find the guy with the fu*king ball and make a tackle, something our players don't do enough of...wrapping up the ball carrier ! :p So don't get me started on Scanlon, I see your boy toy Allen making some rookie mistakes and not playing lights out .

INHO, Mitchell wasn't that bad today, on ST's he did OK. The few plays he was in, he was a non factor with 1 play getting his jock faked off....but it was his 1st game back, he's going to need time just like Beisel.

Sorry Parker, not on the wagon but willing to give him some time to prove his salt.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-19-2004, 08:38 PM
no way DV tells Gun what defense to run...I can't believe Gun ther would come back with that stipulation

Well, I can't believe Gun would run a spinner defense on 3rd and 5...so anything is possible. ROFL

WilliamTheIrish
09-19-2004, 08:41 PM
Yes, they missed some tackles. They made up for it by getting 4 or 5 guys to the ball on running plays. They had 42 yards rushing at halftime, and had held Carolina in check on the ground for most of the game. They spent way too much time on the field in the 3rd quarter.

Parker, I may be misunderstanding you here, but the reason the D spent so damn much time on the field in the 3rd was because none of the SOB's would make a play.

The Panthers first drive of the 3rd quarter ate up 9 minutes and consisted of 13 plays. They did the same goddam thing last week only it was a quarter later.

The Panthers lined up with that weak offense and shoved it down this D's throat.

Especially in the critical 3rd quarter.

milkman
09-19-2004, 08:43 PM
INHO, Mitchell wasn't that bad today, on ST's he did OK. The few plays he was in, he was a non factor with 1 play getting his jock faked off....but it was his 1st game back, he's going to need time just like Beisel.

No, not just like Beisel.
He's been a MLB for more than 3 games.
He got freakin' juked by a freakin' fullback!

A FREAKIN' FULLBACK!!!

And WTF was he doing when Mangum came out on his route for that TD?
Did he forget that he covers?
Was he picking daisys.? What?

Chiefs Pantalones
09-19-2004, 08:46 PM
In a totally optimistic way, our whole team needs balls.

Just saying.

Chiefnj
09-19-2004, 08:47 PM
Hey, at least Scanlon can find the guy with the fu*king ball and make a tackle, something our players don't do enough of...wrapping up the ball carrier ! :p So don't get me started on Scanlon, I see your boy toy Allen making some rookie mistakes and not playing lights out .


I have information from an inside source who told me Allen was supposed to get blown off the ball and lay on his stomach or back on 85% of the plays. He was just doing what he was told.

Coogs
09-19-2004, 08:50 PM
And BTW, I think the Oline played better than people are saying. Green had to hold on to the ball too long and leave the Oline out to dry because the WRs couldn't get open (Green was waiting for the WRs to get separation).

Green has been under more pressure in the first two games than he was the entire season last year. That first shot he took against Denver on the long pass to Kennison was pretty quick. Green didn't hold on to the ball very long at all. He has had to scramble more, and has taken 2 or 3 or 4 pretty hard shots already this season. I'm not sure he will make it all season if the O-line doesn't step it up a bit, cause Green is not really the most mobile QB in the league.

ROYC75
09-19-2004, 08:50 PM
No, not just like Beisel.
He's been a MLB for more than 3 games.
He got freakin' juked by a freakin' fullback!

A FREAKIN' FULLBACK!!!

And WTF was he doing when Mangum came out on his route for that TD?
Did he forget that he covers?
Was he picking daisys.? What?

Beisel has impressed me to a point where you can see he has the fire and instinct to get to the ball. He needs fine tuning to becoming a good MLB. Would he better suited for the OLB position ? maybe, probally so, he gets around and over pursues alot, but don't most LB's do this ? He reads the play to late most of the time but recovers to be around the ball, not always on the point of attack to stop a play from being a positive or a negative gain.

Mitchell has yet to show me anything as a MLB. His ST play today was OK, he had a couple of tackles there. A new scheme could help him, as I said before, I didn't see it in preseason before the injury..... as for showing it now, he does merit sometime to see. It might be that he is a better OLB than a MLB.

Barber ? Has this guy lost a step ? He looks slow and seems lost most times .

ROYC75
09-19-2004, 08:53 PM
I have information from an inside source who told me Allen was supposed to get blown off the ball and lay on his stomach or back on 85% of the plays. He was just doing what he was told.


LOL... I think the whole team took that advise ! Rep .

Chiefs Pantalones
09-19-2004, 08:53 PM
Green has been under more pressure in the first two games than he was the entire season last year. That first shot he took against Denver on the long pass to Kennison was pretty quick. Green didn't hold on to the ball very long at all. He has had to scramble more, and has taken 2 or 3 or 4 pretty hard shots already this season. I'm not sure he will make it all season if the O-line doesn't step it up a bit, cause Green is not really the most mobile QB in the league.

Well, I guess we should've got it done last year.

Window of opportunity is a bitch.

greg63
09-19-2004, 08:53 PM
Green had no one to throw to, Holmes had no where to run, and the offenseive line looked like swiss cheese.

WilliamTheIrish
09-19-2004, 08:53 PM
No, not just like Beisel.
He's been a MLB for more than 3 games.
He got freakin' juked by a freakin' fullback!

A FREAKIN' FULLBACK!!!

And WTF was he doing when Mangum came out on his route for that TD?
Did he forget that he covers?
Was he picking daisys.? What?

Ugh! I wanted to scream (for joy) the second that Delhommo threw that wedding bouquet toss. I knew it was going to be picked and run back 101 yards for a TD by a LB.

Then the ball reached it's apex, and as it butterflied in the direction of the goal line, I was forced to confront the fact that I was not watching the 1995 Chiefs D. I was watching Kawika Mitchell... who appeared to be watching anything but what was happening on the field.

siberian khatru
09-19-2004, 08:56 PM
Ugh! I wanted to scream (for joy) the second that Delhommo threw that wedding bouquet toss. I knew it was going to be picked and run back 101 yards for a TD by LB.


Heh. I had the exact same reaction as that play unfolded.

milkman
09-19-2004, 08:57 PM
Beisel has impressed me to a point where you can see he has the fire and instinct to get to the ball. He needs fine tuning to becoming a good MLB. Would he better suited for the OLB position ? maybe, probally so, he gets around and over pursues alot, but don't most LB's do this ? He reads the play to late most of the time but recovers to be around the ball, not always on the point of attack to stop a play from being a positive or a negative gain.

Mitchell has yet to show me anything as a MLB. His ST play today was OK, he had a couple of tackles there. A new scheme could help him, as I said before, I didn't see it in preseason before the injury..... as for showing it now, he does merit sometime to see. It might be that he is a better OLB than a MLB.

Barber ? Has this guy lost a step ? He looks slow and seems lost most times .

I think Beisel has shown that he deserves the chance to develop and grow at the position.
He is making mistakes, but he's shown that he has heart and desire, something this defense is sorely lacking.

Mitchell has done abssolutely nothing to impress.

And I agree wholeheartedly about Barber.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-19-2004, 08:59 PM
Our whole team seems to lack leadership, IMO. From the top to the bottom.

milkman
09-19-2004, 09:01 PM
Ugh! I wanted to scream (for joy) the second that Delhommo threw that wedding bouquet toss. I knew it was going to be picked and run back 101 yards for a TD by a LB.

Then the ball reached it's apex, and as it butterflied in the direction of the goal line, I was forced to confront the fact that I was not watching the 1995 Chiefs D. I was watching Kawika Mitchell... who appeared to be watching anything but what was happening on the field.

Exactly!

Well, time to spend some quality time with the wife.
Good night all.

cdcox
09-19-2004, 09:03 PM
I think the biggest difference from last year with the offense is the offensive line. Everything started with fantastic line play. We don't have that this year. It makes Priest less effective and doesn't allow Trent to wait all day for our receivers to get open.

The scary thing is that there is a real chance that Roaf won't get any better during the season, and without him, this team ain't going no where.

Chan93lx50
09-19-2004, 09:03 PM
Our whole D needs to be scrapped and new players brought in!

The only impressive thing I saw was Dalton in the middle. The fact that Dalton was the only bright spot is freaking pitiful.

Our D ends suck, our LB's our kicking the f*ck out of us, and our CB cannot do anything Gunther likes to do.

My worst Fears and nightmares for this season are all coming true. I hoped and I prayed it was the scheme, and its not its the talent.

I feel bad for Gun, for his second chance he takes over a team of miss fits. Hopefully Gun will get the oppourtunity to reload the D Gun style in this off season.

If we keep playing like this we can kiss the playoffs good bye and sit our asses down at the bottom of the AFC west

Chiefs Pantalones
09-19-2004, 09:03 PM
Do you guys think DV may be a little too old? Just for conversation.

WilliamTheIrish
09-19-2004, 09:04 PM
I think Beisel has shown that he deserves the chance to develop and grow at the position.
He is making mistakes, but he's shown that he has heart and desire, something this defense is sorely lacking.

Mitchell has done abssolutely nothing to impress.

And I agree wholeheartedly about Barber.

I think Monty has shown that he doesn't have the necessary physical gifts of speed and agility to play the position.

It would have helped if Monty had played the position in college.

WilliamTheIrish
09-19-2004, 09:05 PM
Do you guys think DV may be a little too old? Just for conversation.

No. Skip Towne is old.

Calcountry
09-19-2004, 09:06 PM
obviously our offense has problems, but how can you say the defense has improved?

they were embarrassing...at least our offense has a standard of success to refer to...they know what it requires to be successful, and they have talented players...it is reasonable to assume they'll work it out

our defense has no success to refer to, they don't know what it requires to be successful, and they don't have any talented players (Wesley/Fujita is all)...its not reasonable to assume they'll work it out...

our offense wasn't good enough last year to carry this sorry D, did you actually expect the offense to be even better this year?

the only real hope we had was the defense getting their shit together...and that hasn't happened...

sorry, I guess I am defensive about the offense...they've carried the defense's water for 2 years...when is the defense going to return the favor?
As shitty as our D has been, today they put up a pretty good effort for their talent level. But after the INT was returned, I said, OMG, them poor bastards have to go right back out their. Sure enough, they were fuggin tired because the offense had too many 3 and outs today. No time of possession for our O. Time of possession is a Defense of sorts and they sucked at it today.

the Talking Can
09-19-2004, 09:06 PM
I think Monty has shown that he doesn't have the necessary physical gifts of speed and agility to play the position.

It would have helped if Monty had played the position in college.

I hate to laugh....but its true...I'm all out of wishful thinking about this defense.

They are what they are: terrible.

the Talking Can
09-19-2004, 09:08 PM
As shitty as our D has been, today they put up a pretty good effort for their talent level. But after the INT was returned, I said, OMG, them poor bastards have to go right back out their. Sure enough, they were fuggin tired because the offense had too many 3 and outs today. No time of possession for our O. Time of possession is a Defense of sorts and they sucked at it today.

we'll just have to disagree, as well....how you can say "pretty good effort" about that is baffling...they got run off the field by backups and rookies, at home...

Chiefs Pantalones
09-19-2004, 09:09 PM
No. Skip Towne is old.

ROFL

Nevermind.

philfree
09-19-2004, 09:09 PM
There were so many things that went into the loss and most have been covered by now. IMO this team is pressing and is out of sync. The O is pressing and out of sync. They need to loosen up and play the game.

PhilFree :arrow:

Chan93lx50
09-19-2004, 09:10 PM
I think Monty has shown that he doesn't have the necessary physical gifts of speed and agility to play the position.

It would have helped if Monty had played the position in college.

Yeah we have no f*cking talent back there. All our LB's should show up the the next game wearing chearleader outfits and pom poms, at least they would have an excuse for missing takles due to having their hands full

Hate to say it, but Vlad, and the Donkey fans were right, we have no talent which = Shitty D

ROYC75
09-19-2004, 09:11 PM
I think Monty has shown that he doesn't have the necessary physical gifts of speed and agility to play the position.

It would have helped if Monty had played the position in college.

I think he could do well on the outside..... Bench Barber for a game, make him earn his spot back.

Whick leaves us back to the MLB spot !


( ***** ****** ** **** ****** )

Chiefs Pantalones
09-19-2004, 09:13 PM
Are our D players the dumbest in the game? They make the same mistakes over and over again. When the stove is f#cking hot, you don't touch it. But they keep touching it over and over again. Are they really that dumb or is it that they just aren't capable to fix it because they shouldn't be playing in the league or shouldn't be starting?

Chiefnj
09-19-2004, 09:17 PM
I think Monty has shown that he doesn't have the necessary physical gifts of speed and agility to play the position.

It would have helped if Monty had played the position in college.

Which begs the question, if Monty doesn't have the speed or agility for the middle doesn't it make it worse if he's on the outside?

stevieray
09-19-2004, 09:19 PM
Are our D players the dumbest in the game? They make the same mistakes over and over again. When the stove is f#cking hot, you don't touch it. But they keep touching it over and over again. Are they really that dumb or is it that they just aren't capable to fix it because they shouldn't be playing in the league or shouldn't be starting?

It's so horrible, I think we should stick around and be machosistic for the whole season. Are we the dumbest fans in the league? We keep cheering for them over and over again. when your team isn't playing well, you don't stand around and take it. Are wereally that dumb, or are we unable to break free because we don't know any better or should just stop being fans all together?

Calcountry
09-19-2004, 09:20 PM
we'll just have to disagree, as well....how you can say "pretty good effort" about that is baffling...they got run off the field by backups and rookies, at home...
When you get 7 points from a D that sucks, plus about 4 punts, I think that is pretty good for a sucky D.

You know, when a D student pulls a C, you get kinda psyched.??

:shrug:

Logical
09-19-2004, 09:22 PM
It's so horrible, I think we should stick around and be machosistic for the whole season. Are we the dumbest fans in the league? We keep cheering for them over and over again. when your team isn't playing well, you don't stand around and take it. Are wereally that dumb, or are we unable to break free because we don't know any better or should just stop being fans all together?

Yes we are that dumb. I have been that dumb for 34 years since the last Super Bowl. Hell I will be that dumb next Sunday after my son and I have flown in from San Diego for the game.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

PastorMikH
09-19-2004, 09:24 PM
It's so horrible, I think we should stick around and be machosistic for the whole season. Are we the dumbest fans in the league? We keep cheering for them over and over again. when your team isn't playing well, you don't stand around and take it. Are wereally that dumb, or are we unable to break free because we don't know any better or should just stop being fans all together?



One thing about it Stevie, we don't have to worry about anyone stealing our Chiefs magnets right now do we?:)


(Say, that might be my first smilie of the day - maybe I'm calming down a bit)

stevieray
09-19-2004, 09:24 PM
Yes we are that dumb. I have been that dumb for 34 years since the last Super Bowl. Hell I will be that dumb next Sunday after my son and I have flown in from San Diego for the game.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.


Machosist... :)

stevieray
09-19-2004, 09:25 PM
One thing about it Stevie, we don't have to worry about anyone stealing our Chiefs magnets right now do we?:)


(Say, that might be my first smilie of the day - maybe I'm calming down a bit)


Nope, we sure don't.

PastorMikH
09-19-2004, 09:26 PM
Nope, we sure don't.



BTW, the Arrowhead looks much, much better now that it is facing forward.:)

Chan93lx50
09-19-2004, 09:26 PM
Yep I am Dumb too!

TEX
09-19-2004, 09:29 PM
There were so many things that went into the loss and most have been covered by now. IMO this team is pressing and is out of sync. The O is pressing and out of sync. They need to loosen up and play the game.

PhilFree :arrow:

Maybe you're right about the "O", but can the "D" play any looser? I mean 30 -something missed tackles is very loose IMO... :cuss:

philfree
09-19-2004, 09:42 PM
The defense did their part in the 1st half but the O didn't take advantage of it. When the D gets a pick the O has to compliment them by taking advantage of it.

All three sides of the ball let the team down in this game.


PhilFree :arrow:

Count Zarth
09-19-2004, 09:43 PM
Are our D players the dumbest in the game? They make the same mistakes over and over again. When the stove is f#cking hot, you don't touch it. But they keep touching it over and over again. Are they really that dumb or is it that they just aren't capable to fix it because they shouldn't be playing in the league or shouldn't be starting?

You are missing the problem.

They think the stove is NOT hot.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-19-2004, 09:49 PM
I think it's the talent, not any sort of scheme.

We got a bunch of players that wouldn't start on any other team with the exception of a few.

Count Zarth
09-19-2004, 09:50 PM
I think it's the talent, not any sort of scheme.

We got a bunch of players that wouldn't start on any other team with the exception of a few.

I think they just spent too much time on the field. If the offense had been it's normal, league-leading self, we win easy.

ROYC75
09-19-2004, 09:59 PM
Which begs the question, if Monty doesn't have the speed or agility for the middle doesn't it make it worse if he's on the outside?

Depends on his instincts, he does end up around the ball alot. He would be at a different angle and would have that extra second to read the play. If the play comes at you, fighting of blocks is your hardest task or covering the TE, HB, etc. If the play goes away, you can take a wider angle to cut it off. Right now, this is what he's doing in the middle, getting a late jump or a false read, still ending up around the ball, but usually late, he makes a tackle, but the offense has positive yards.It's a great advantage to have the speed as well.
Where as if you are in the Middle, you must nail the read almost all the time and have the speed to cut it off. Marvcus Patton didn't have great speed in his prime, but he read the ball well and was good at fending blocks, he had a good 1st step due to reading the play.

htismaqe
09-20-2004, 06:14 AM
well, then we just disagree...."half-time" stats are meaningless....at home, against a team without its top WR or RB, and a brand new OL, they gave up almost 200 yards rushing, 28 points, and let the back up RB set a franchise record for longest run.....where, in all of that, you find improvement is hard for me to see...I call it a rerun....

Down the stretch last year, we were giving up an average of FIVE 30+ yard runs per game. Last week, we gave up 3. This week we gave up ONE.

That IS improvement. It's not my fault you're too bitter to accept it.

I also attribute the final TD and the long Foster run to lack of defensive intensity. I don't expect this defense, especially THIS defense, to get the ball back not once but THREE TIMES and be rewarded with ZERO first downs by the offense.

htismaqe
09-20-2004, 06:21 AM
Htis,

Gunther loves man-to-man and he hates zone as well as rotating Dlinemen. Although I see the Chiefs doing it. I heard on the radio this week that the zone and rotating is all DV. Do you think that's true? I saw today on a 3rd and 5, we had our CBs ten yards off the ball, and rushed 3, and guess what?...yep, they got the first down, a 15 yard pass play. I thought that was gone with GRob. I think that type of call is DV overruling. We know that Gun likes to bring it, especially on 3rd down. It has to be DV, he's conservative. What do you tihnk?

And BTW, I think the Oline played better than people are saying. Green had to hold on to the ball too long and leave the Oline out to dry because the WRs couldn't get open (Green was waiting for the WRs to get separation).

Also, is it just me, or does Gonzo look slower? He should've got surgery on it this offseason, instead of playing around. What kind of leadership example is that anyway?

I don't think DV has any say in the defensive playcalling. I think he's become just as spineless as the rest of them. That's why he came back.

From my seat, the WR's were open ALL DAY. And not just one. Trent just couldn't get them the ball.

htismaqe
09-20-2004, 06:23 AM
Smith was open all day long.

Which matters little. Track star cain't catch.

htismaqe
09-20-2004, 06:34 AM
Priest would've had more touches but it was like 14:35 in the 4th quarter and were in possession of the ball...but guess what...that was only the second time in the second half that the offense had the ball. All together, I think we only had the ball 4 times in the second half. Our defense couldn't get off the field right from the start of the second half.

It was a total team loss, as it always is. No side really helped out the other. You just gotta give credit, I guess, to Carolina for outcoaching and the players for outplaying us. That's why they were in the SB and we weren't.

Priest would have had more touches if we would have balanced the offense early. 7 straight passes to start the game. Priest Holmes ran the ball 4 times in the first quarter. Johnnie Morton dropped more passes than that.

htismaqe
09-20-2004, 06:36 AM
Hey, at least Scanlon can find the guy with the fu*king ball and make a tackle, something our players don't do enough of...wrapping up the ball carrier ! :p So don't get me started on Scanlon, I see your boy toy Allen making some rookie mistakes and not playing lights out .

INHO, Mitchell wasn't that bad today, on ST's he did OK. The few plays he was in, he was a non factor with 1 play getting his jock faked off....but it was his 1st game back, he's going to need time just like Beisel.

Sorry Parker, not on the wagon but willing to give him some time to prove his salt.

I'm off the wagon. Kawika isn't ready yet. I hold out hope that he will develop, but right now Beisel is our best MLB.

It really pains me to say it, though, because Beisel sucks too. Hell, our ENTIRE LB corps sucks.

the Talking Can
09-20-2004, 06:44 AM
Down the stretch last year, we were giving up an average of FIVE 30+ yard runs per game. Last week, we gave up 3. This week we gave up ONE.

That IS improvement. It's not my fault you're too bitter to accept it.

I also attribute the final TD and the long Foster run to lack of defensive intensity. I don't expect this defense, especially THIS defense, to get the ball back not once but THREE TIMES and be rewarded with ZERO first downs by the offense.

bitter?...sure, the same yards and the same points given up to the same nobodies by the same defensive players...good luck selling that

htismaqe
09-20-2004, 06:53 AM
bitter?...sure, the same yards and the same points given up to the same nobodies by the same defensive players...good luck selling that

Like I said, I never said that the defense played "well", I said they played "better". When the Chiefs _efense gives up 28 points but offsets it with a score of their own, we SHOULD NOT lose.

I've been saying it for 2 years:

X > bad ≠ good

LVNHACK
09-20-2004, 07:37 AM
4) The playcalling by Al Saunders STINKS -- I'm more convinced than ever that I don't want this guy touching our team in any way, shape, or form after Vermeil leaves. You have arguably the most potent weapon in the game and you give him the ball SIXTEEN times? There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for Priest Holmes EVER having less than 20 carries. None.




I've been saying this same thing since last season. AS game calling leaves alot to be desired.........IMO he need to realized this is the Chiefs and not the Rams and he doesn't have the weapons to go downfield as much as he does.....

patteeu
09-20-2004, 07:49 AM
Say what you want about the defense -- no amount of complaining is going change this fact:

We went into this season KNOWING that the defense was going to struggle, especially early. The offense was SUPPOSED to help offset this.

No, the defense wasn't stellar today. However, they played MUCH better than last week and even added a TD. The offense rewarded them by putting out the biggest pile of crap since the 2001 season.

I was at the game today and I really felt like the defense upheld their end of the bargain. They had some lapses, but the real problems (like the long run) didn't happen until after the offense completely let the air out of the sails.

1) The offensive line -- no I'm not talking about Welbourn. I'm talking about WILLIE ROAF. He really looks like he's lost a step, and he's relying more and more on holding. I know some people noticed it in the preseason, and he was really exposed by Peppers today on a couple of occasions.

2) Drops -- I can't even say any more. It makes me want to puke. Unlike last week, they got open. And I mean WIDE OPEN. But they just can't hang onto the ball. I hope everybody that was calling for more Richard Smith now realize what that means.

3) Trent Green -- I don't know that I can criticize this guy. It's pretty obvious: zero WR's + zero protection = bad QB play.

4) The playcalling by Al Saunders STINKS -- I'm more convinced than ever that I don't want this guy touching our team in any way, shape, or form after Vermeil leaves. You have arguably the most potent weapon in the game and you give him the ball SIXTEEN times? There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for Priest Holmes EVER having less than 20 carries. None.

5) Tackling -- it was better today, but the long run was again the result of poor tackling. He should have been down after about 6 yards. McCleon avoided contact on a couple of plays, but also made a nice open-field tackle.

6) Pass coverage -- at first I thought it was Dexter McCleon just getting beat man-to-man. Then I realized that Gunther was trying to contain the outside run by running a flat zone again. The corners on the outside were releasing the WR's into zone coverage, and ONCE AGAIN, our safeties left guys WIDE OPEN. I've been saying it for two years -- Jerome Woods CANNOT cover a deep zone.

Those were the big things I saw about the game, as far as negatives. On the positive side, I saw Sims beat a couple of double-teams, and both Siavii and Dalton played well. Our defensive tackles are definitely better than last year. Of course, our defensive ends are just as bad as ever. And Warfield looked great.

Good analysis Htismaqe. I especially agree with the bolded part.

Gaz
09-20-2004, 09:20 AM
I know that a lot of people get really wired when I say this, but this loss belongs to the Offense. As Vermeil said in his post-game comments: if you leave a Defense on the field that long, they are going to break down.

The Defense is right about where I expected it would be. Struggling with a new scheme, finding a rhythm, learning where the problems last season were scheme Vs player.

The Offense is practically non-existent. Whether that is due to the WR situation or the OL or Saunders’ playcalling or running up against [2] good Defenses in a row is open to debate. What is not debatable is that the Offense is not getting it done. The high-octane Chiefs Offense sputtered at Denver and did not even bother to show up against Carolina.

Ten points at home, with the lone touchdown coming as a result of a PI penalty. We need to stop squealing about the D and look at the O.

xoxo~
Gaz
Wondering where, o where has his Offense gone.

TEX
09-20-2004, 09:28 AM
I know that a lot of people get really wired when I say this, but this loss belongs to the Offense. As Vermeil said in his post-game comments: if you leave a Defense on the field that long, they are going to break down.

The Defense is right about where I expected it would be. Struggling with a new scheme, finding a rhythm, learning where the problems last season were scheme Vs player.

The Offense is practically non-existent. Whether that is due to the WR situation or the OL or Saunders’ playcalling or running up against [2] good Defenses in a row is open to debate. What is not debatable is that the Offense is not getting it done. The high-octane Chiefs Offense sputtered at Denver and did not even bother to show up against Carolina.

Ten points at home, with the lone touchdown coming as a result of a PI penalty. We need to stop squealing about the D and look at the O.

xoxo~
Gaz
Wondering where, o where has his Offense gone.


Yep.

Logical
09-20-2004, 09:32 AM
Parker,

Well in one sense you got it right. This season is not only about the defense.

It is about the total collapse of the entire team thus far.

The defense continues to completely suck.

The offense has joined the defense in the suckage area.

And Special teams are anything but special.

Welbourn stinks and is completely inadequate to replace Tait, and Roaf has thus far slipped slightly.

Trent is not accurate and the WRs are pathetic so far.

Tony Gonzalez has lost a step and is now a second tier TE.

The defense is so bad there is no point in isolating the cause it is everyone and everywhere in its source.

Sad

KCTitus
09-20-2004, 09:33 AM
The defense spent the entire 3rd quarter on the field...after that, they were toast.

Gotta hang this "L" on the offense...

Gaz
09-20-2004, 09:44 AM
I expected a slow start from the Defense. I like Gunther’s ‘tude, but only a fool would believe that he could turn around a crappy Defense in training camp and a few pre-season games. Live fire is completely different. It takes time to unlearn Robinson and learn Gunther. The D is showing signs of progress. They are not even close to being there yet, but they are improving.

I expected the same Offense as last season from the same personnel. Sure, Enemy DCs have had time to dissect the Chiefs attack, but we also had the same amount of time to tinker and improve it. Instead, the Offense is a gaping black hole. Holmes managed to escape the gravitational pull for a while at Invesco, but Sunday he was sucked in. The Offense disappeared, leaving the Defense on the field all day long.

The Offense failed, failed and failed again, both at Invesco and more spectacularly at Arrowhead.

The Defense stuggled. They missed assignments, they missed tackles and they missed coverages. Still, they got the ball back for the Offense who turned right around and handed it back to the Panthers.

This loss belongs to the Offense.

xoxo~
Gaz
Not sure what the cause is, but can see quite clearly the result.

KevB
09-20-2004, 09:45 AM
I know that a lot of people get really wired when I say this, but this loss belongs to the Offense. As Vermeil said in his post-game comments: if you leave a Defense on the field that long, they are going to break down.

The Defense is right about where I expected it would be. Struggling with a new scheme, finding a rhythm, learning where the problems last season were scheme Vs player.

The Offense is practically non-existent. Whether that is due to the WR situation or the OL or Saunders’ playcalling or running up against [2] good Defenses in a row is open to debate. What is not debatable is that the Offense is not getting it done. The high-octane Chiefs Offense sputtered at Denver and did not even bother to show up against Carolina.

Ten points at home, with the lone touchdown coming as a result of a PI penalty. We need to stop squealing about the D and look at the O.

xoxo~
Gaz
Wondering where, o where has his Offense gone.


Two points, one has already been beaten to death:

1. Our WRs suck. Enough said.

2. Trent is no better than an average NFL QB if he gets pressured. He's been sitting behind arguably the best OLine in football the last two years, with endless amounts of time to scan the field and nothing in the back of his mind screaming, "get rid of it". When he gets pressured he makes bad decisions and inaccurate throws. I love the guy, but he's not a playmaker. He needs time and options to throw to......give him that, and he's pinpoint.

Baby Lee
09-20-2004, 09:47 AM
It's so horrible, I think we should stick around and be machosistic for the whole season. Are we the dumbest fans in the league? We keep cheering for them over and over again. when your team isn't playing well, you don't stand around and take it. Are wereally that dumb, or are we unable to break free because we don't know any better or should just stop being fans all together?
If Chiefs fans were movie fans, we'd all lined up outside the theater waiting for the release of 'Police Academy 47.' You know, the one that'll be Steve Gutenberg's BIG COMEBACK!!!

Gaz
09-20-2004, 10:00 AM
The Panthers started the second half with a monster drive. Classic Martyball. The Defense was gouged and tired. Sucking for air, they watched as the Chiefs Offense ran [4] plays and put the exhausted Defense back in the field. That is the entire game in miniature.

In all fairness, we played [2] good Defenses in the Broncos and Panthers. I’m sure they had quite a lot to do with our Offensive disappearing act. Sometimes we fans are too quick to say our team sucked instead of giving due credit to The Enemy. Props to the Panthers. They shut us down.

Both Carolina and Denver put pressure on our backfield. The play action was conspicuously absent at Invesco, but Saunders used it to open the Arrowhead game and it worked well. Teams are now looking for the screen to Holmes, so it is up to Saunders to take that into account and devise alternate ways to get our best player into the game.

Yes, our WRs are second-tier talent [at best] and are riddled with injury. That also will hurt our passing game. Smith finally saw the field and came down with a case of dropitis. Bad timing, Richard. You had a shot and blew it. I hope the staff takes rookie jitters into account and gives you another chance. And if they do so, I hope you put it to better use than you did your freshman outing.

“The best OL in the NFL” ain’t anymore. Welbourn stunk in week one and Roaf was ineffectual in week two. Welbourn should get better with more time at his position. Hopefully, Roaf simply had a bad day against a great Defensive Line. Hopefully.

I am confused about Saunders. Sometimes, he us very good. He opened the game with a heavy dose of play action against a team with an aggressive DL. Worked like a charm, too. Then he seemed to fall into a rut. With our WRs having trouble getting separation and our OL struggling against a great front four, why on earth would you revert to a straight drop-back pass? And we did that over and over again.

The possible explanations are legion. And we will just have to see which factors can be corrected. But the bottom line is that the Offense is not hauling its share of the load. And it is painfully clear that the Defense is not up to carrying that increased load.

xoxo~
Gaz
Needs to see a bit of Offense next week.

38yrsfan
09-20-2004, 10:10 AM
Offense, defense, attitude and even a couple of poor calls. What a shambles. It was an embarassing moment for the team. They could have won as I didn't think Carolina showed that much - Denver was more impressive, but then, they are like us and put more into a divisional rivalry matchup.

BigChiefFan
09-20-2004, 10:15 AM
Our offense was a big part of the problem, but all three phases stunk up the place. I'm drained by the Carl Peterson era and wish he would at the very least hire a competent GM.

38yrsfan
09-20-2004, 10:16 AM
If Chiefs fans were movie fans, we'd all lined up outside the theater waiting for the release of 'Police Academy 47.' You know, the one that'll be Steve Gutenberg's BIG COMEBACK!!!


I would envision it to be "Dumb and Dumber 47" :)

Baby Lee
09-20-2004, 10:34 AM
I am at a loss. The main reason I was blase after the playoff meltdown was because the O looked so good. Now I have more faith that the D will eventually shore up than the O getting back on track. There were plenty of embarassing plays on D, but there were plenty of inspiring plays too. Any notice that in the first half the running numbers were [approximately] -3, -3, -2, +10, -1, -2, -2, +15? Anyone notice that when the O was floundering in the fourth, after the D being on the field throughout the 3rd, the D gave them two 3 and outs in a row?

htismaqe
09-20-2004, 10:50 AM
I am at a loss. The main reason I was blase after the playoff meltdown was because the O looked so good. Now I have more faith that the D will eventually shore up than the O getting back on track. There were plenty of embarassing plays on D, but there were plenty of inspiring plays too. Any notice that in the first half the running numbers were [approximately] -3, -3, -2, +10, -1, -2, -2, +15? Anyone notice that when the O was floundering in the fourth, after the D being on the field throughout the 3rd, the D gave them two 3 and outs in a row?

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Particularly the part in bold.

Yes, the defense gave up a long drive to start the third. And yes, they gave up a 71-yard run.

But they also stopped the Panthers on consecutive drives with about 12 minutes left and the offense did NOTHINg.

ChiTown
09-20-2004, 10:56 AM
But they also stopped the Panthers on consecutive drives with about 12 minutes left and the offense did NOTHINg.

That's what's so dissappointing. Not once, last year, did I ever sense that the Chiefs couldn't score if they had the opportunity. This year, it's a different story.